From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jul 10 20:12:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA30593 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:12:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA29026 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:09:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:09:19 -0500 Message-Id: <200007110109.UAA29026@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1707 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, July 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1707 In this digest: Re: IN> A look at Lilim RE: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> Judas RE: IN> A look at Lilim IN> Female Archangels Re: IN> A look at Lilim RE: IN> A look at Lilim RE: IN> A look at Lilim IN> Michael as War (was Baal, the Archangel of Valor?) IN> I'm thinking of changing from digest to post Re: IN> Michael as War (was Baal, the Archangel of Valor?) IN> In Nomine collection Re: IN> Michael as War (was Baal, the Archangel of Valor?) IN> Lilim IN> Archangel Eve Re: IN> Archangel Eve Re: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> In Nomine collection Re: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> A look at Lilim Re: IN> A look at Lilim IN> Not That I Believe It, But . . . IN> The Impudites call it "Quality"! (was: All The Fuss...) Re: IN> A look at Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:23:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim At 9:52 AM -0700 7/9/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >> At 1:33 AM -0400 07/08/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >> > That's the trouble; it's hard classifying the Lilim which is why people >like >> > [Andrealphus]* or [Nybbas] who likely have the biggest need for >Lilim-can't >> > manufacture them on their own. >> >> I think it's more along the lines of the Word that Lilith holds, her >> pulling out the 'Lilith-Force' necessary to make the Lilim catalyze >> properly, and any number of Lucifer/GM Fiat you can come up with. > >You know, as a matter of clarification she's the Human Princess of Freedom >in GURPS IN. It's only making blatent what's already in the main book -- "technically, she's not even a demon," IIRC the quote. (Baby sleepng on chest, can't get at book to doublecheck, consider it showing off my memory if I'm right.) >The other question that I have never seen asked or answered- >Can Lilith make anything else? Or is it just Lilim?[...] As I recall Walter typing when I was walking around with a sleepy baby the other day, that's the most Canon CDaU there existed before the GMG was published. Her writeup specifically said no one knew what, if anything, she might create besides Lilim, if she's ever tried, or if she could create things before she became a Princess. Mind, if you can pick up a demonling off the street and give it Forces till it fledges, that's kind of a moot point. Especially since IMC, I'd let her determine what it fledged into normally. (Though she would probably ask it what it wanted to grow up to be. And of _course_ it would owe her.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:34:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> A look at Lilim At 11:56 AM -0700 7/10/00, Steven Feldon wrote: >Quoth the Archangel, Elizabeth McCoy: >>[...] this keeps "name bloat" from >>swamping the poor compilers at www.incyclopedia.org. O:> > >Oh, don't worry about me and Diane. Liber Castellorum was the last nail in >my coffin, and she's still working on that one. The Superiors books have >been a joy and a pleasure compared to Castellorum, with, I think, TEN >THOUSAND NAMES in it and every last one of them a Seneschal--the thing my >database handles least well. Ten thousand? Really? Man, that's a lot of word-count... I'd have thought the APG and IPG were worse... >*sigh*. Bitter? Me? Naah. :) I didn't know! - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:36:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Judas At 2:42 PM -0400 7/10/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>>What if his destiny was to throw the 30 pieces of silver back at who >>>ever it was (the sanhedrin? my bible history is suddenly failing me.) > >IMC the 30 Pieces of Silver have popped up as holy relics. They've got a good chance of waltzing into published canon-esqueness, too -- they're in the current draft of Superiors 4. Mammon is collecting them, according to his rumors section. (I don't anticipate them being cut, either, but I know well not to risk Interventions...) It doesn't say what powers they might or might not have, though. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:24:57 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> A look at Lilim APG and IPG, at least, had all the names clumped together in "Famous Calabim" sections, and had exactly the same limited data for each one: name, band, possibly word. That's easy. It's figuring out how to handled an unnamed attuned Seneschal of a vaguely named Tether that's no fun. Unnamed, Seneschal of a garbage dump near Trenton, Calabite of Hardcore. Sure. That's satisfying. Whee. - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy [mailto:emccoy@nh.ultranet.com] Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:34 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: RE: IN> A look at Lilim At 11:56 AM -0700 7/10/00, Steven Feldon wrote: >Quoth the Archangel, Elizabeth McCoy: >>[...] this keeps "name bloat" from >>swamping the poor compilers at www.incyclopedia.org. O:> > >Oh, don't worry about me and Diane. Liber Castellorum was the last nail in >my coffin, and she's still working on that one. The Superiors books have >been a joy and a pleasure compared to Castellorum, with, I think, TEN >THOUSAND NAMES in it and every last one of them a Seneschal--the thing my >database handles least well. Ten thousand? Really? Man, that's a lot of word-count... I'd have thought the APG and IPG were worse... >*sigh*. Bitter? Me? Naah. :) I didn't know! - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:26:12 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Female Archangels >I don't know about the INS/MV authors, but there was only one writer (Derek) >who fixed the sexual preferences of the Superiors in the SJGames version of >In Nomine, as far as I know, and he was male. (At least, I *think* Derek is >male -- I've never met him, but I think I've heard him referred to as "him" >by people who'd know....) My knowledge grows, thank you. >Though I seem to recall hearing that it was SJ who wanted Lilith in the >main book, so maybe that's not *entirely* true. >As far as IN writers today go, I suspect there is actually a slight >predominance of female authors, in fact. I stand corrected and admit I was operating on a stereotype. This is actually a pretty common thread on the White Wolf forums that wondered "Why are all the leaders of guys etc." and for a while it was a question on Ravenloft (a AD&D setting now defunct I used to post to alot). Thanks for the info. I'm not terribly surprised truly in the end because the women from Talfka (no offense taken-you made my character sheets-call me what you want), Morgan, and the like-with their immenintently sensible work here. - -Charlemagne P.S. I'm not sure why I was lumped in D. Tis a mystery for Litheroy methinks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:39:54 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I didn't know! [Steven Feldon is *not* comforted!] =) I've been so tempted to dive into the incyclopedia and just make up stuff to fill in the blanks. There's all sorts of partial characters that almost beg for some background. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:44:29 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> A look at Lilim Get it published, even in Pyramid, and we'd _love_ it. Yes, there are _way_ more fragmentary characters then whole ones. One of the revisions I'm working on in my Copious Free Time is having a page reference for _each_ piece of information, so that you could clearly see that (for example) the Band of the Demon of Pipe Bombs came from the main book, but the name came from the Pyramid article, "Demons of Things That Go Boom Bigtime". It'll never happen, but it would have been a good way to start the db out. And how do you know I'm not comforted? She was being nice to me! :) steve - -----Original Message----- From: John Karakash [mailto:jkarakash@dg-rtp.dg.com] Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:40 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I didn't know! [Steven Feldon is *not* comforted!] =) I've been so tempted to dive into the incyclopedia and just make up stuff to fill in the blanks. There's all sorts of partial characters that almost beg for some background. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:52:59 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> A look at Lilim Sorry, I wasn't clear here. The reason for the "get it published" comment _wasn't_ a slam on anyone about anything at all, and I hope nobody took it that way. It's just that the most common piece of mail I get to the steve@incyclopedia.org address is "I think it would be cool if you named the Archangel of Death Azrael", to which I send out a canned message "Sorry, no, all this data comes from the books or Pyramid and that's it". The "get it published" was a knee-jerk response to the thought of any suggestion that _didn't_ meet those criteria. This has never come from anyone on the list, but I get a lot of traffic from people searching for Angels and Demons and such on Yahoo. I really should put some time into updating the FAQ. I made a lame attempt, but it's just not worth writing for an afternoon to defend against one email every two weeks. Of course, there was the guy who wanted me to post the _invocations_ for all of these demons, and the piece of email that started, "I AM THE ARCHANGEL MICHAEL, AND YOU HAVE OFFENDED ME!" Gotta love that. I never _did_ reply to that last one, because I just couldn't figure out what angle to take. At least the guy with invocations, I could tell him that from the point of view of this web site, this material is fiction. But what if it _was_ the Archangel Michael? Imagine telling him he's fictional. Of course, Beth could just bless whatever you write and we could run with it. As long as she declares it official, I'd just change the criteria. :) steve - -----Original Message----- From: Steven Feldon Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:44 PM To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' Subject: RE: IN> A look at Lilim Get it published, even in Pyramid, and we'd _love_ it. Yes, there are _way_ more fragmentary characters then whole ones. One of the revisions I'm working on in my Copious Free Time is having a page reference for _each_ piece of information, so that you could clearly see that (for example) the Band of the Demon of Pipe Bombs came from the main book, but the name came from the Pyramid article, "Demons of Things That Go Boom Bigtime". It'll never happen, but it would have been a good way to start the db out. And how do you know I'm not comforted? She was being nice to me! :) steve - -----Original Message----- From: John Karakash [mailto:jkarakash@dg-rtp.dg.com] Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:40 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I didn't know! [Steven Feldon is *not* comforted!] =) I've been so tempted to dive into the incyclopedia and just make up stuff to fill in the blanks. There's all sorts of partial characters that almost beg for some background. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:49:20 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Michael as War (was Baal, the Archangel of Valor?) Whistling in the Dark brought up some arguements for Baal not being the Archangel of Valor that were very good points.... However it raises the question to what the Celestial meaning of "War" actually is? I mean is Michael when the Fall presumably ends and the forces of darkness are destroyed-really going to just fade away? Can he really stop fighting after embodying it for so long? Will constant vigilance over the peace be his new goal or will he fade away with his word? (a very good question I think) Technically I'm inclined however to believe that War in Archangel terms actually means "Struggling over Adversity to the end to triumph" (Yves's Dictionary-great for figuring out what Heaven means) which frankly is rather similar to the Islamic concept of Jihad that i borrow heavily for. This means whenever *ANYONE* had a job in Heaven that required some effort-it would be strengthening Michael's word. Gabrielle having trouble controlling the Solar winds? Bah with alittle more back into it, he can tame his opponent? Uriel wanting to purify this gold but lacking essence, his enemy won't stand a chance with Michael's help. Baal as Michael's right hand command was basically back then not Valor in the fields of battle so much as "Courage in the face of Discouragment". Baal would go up to Jordi and say "Getting those Dinosaurs to stampede to the new pride lands is just a matter of scaring them alittle...you don't need to get frustrated. Let me help." etc. Whenever a mama Brotosaurus whacked a T-Rex with her tail instead of running in order to protect her offspring, that was Baal. However I'm pretty sure that while Michael still has the positive benifits of War as a word (why he is the most powerful archangel-all of creation's conflict is empowering him). I'm sure Baal just is getting help from the destructive negative aspects of murder, drugs, espionage, and terrorism-powerful but not virtually everything in the universe. Thoughts? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:51:54 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> I'm thinking of changing from digest to post To play Devil's Advocate here (no pun intended) I personally prefer the Digest mode of e-mail. Frankly this way I miss nothing of my fellow In nomine writers and have everything I want to write from Beth to David in a conveinant easy to read format. Plus it keeps my mailbox from overflowing. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:03:34 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Michael as War (was Baal, the Archangel of Valor?) From: "Charles Phipps" > > However it raises the question to what the Celestial meaning of "War" > actually is? I mean is Michael when the Fall presumably ends and the forces > of darkness are destroyed-really going to just fade away? Can he really > stop fighting after embodying it for so long? Will constant vigilance over > the peace be his new goal or will he fade away with his word? The expanded writeup in S1 mentions that his word includes the period of rebuilding that follows all wars, unless my memory is playing tricks again. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:07:25 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> In Nomine collection >No, it really would not. However, if you batched up the stuff you were >intending to post, and gave an advance warning to the list and/or >the people included on the group, and asked for people who _didn't_ >want it posted to please speak up fast, that would make me happy. And >it would give advance warning that new INC stuff was going to be up -- >sneak previews! This reminds me of "Alanik Ray's homepage" for the Ravenloft mailing list (which I mentioned above) if you go there your likely to see about 19-20 pieces of work by me and about a thousand other pieces of work by different authors for the Gothic Horror AD&D game. It works basically that the hoster of the webpage "Alanik Ray" was (I have since quit the list and don't know it's status) on the list and whenever he found something "Way cool" on the list he offered to post it on his webpage until the point that he just started posting stuff on the list from it directly. I was never anything but flattered Frankly surprised as I might be that the INC runs on a similar princible (and somewhat delighted-why I started posting my adventure hooks here) I think this is nothing to complain about personally. Maybe as an aspiring author (in my spare time ministering) it's alittle unsettling that someone would complain about their work being shown to the entire world. It's not a netbook and more like an archive of "the Best of the Digest" if you ask my opinion. I say if you don't want your work there I suggest simply posting you'd rather not see it there in the work itself....if your not happy about something you didn't want posted up there-I suggest simply you ask them to remove it. What is being proposed I fear would drastically cut someone's chances of having their work on the INC as the people hosting INC have a rather busy life (though would know). It might ruin a large number of people's enjoyment of the INC. Though it might be fun to say in the List "by-laws" what you post here could well be pubilished on the collection. :-) Thoughts? - -Charles Phipps ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:20:57 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Michael as War (was Baal, the Archangel of Valor?) At 3:49 PM -0400 7/10/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >Whistling in the Dark brought up some arguements for Baal not being the >Archangel of Valor that were very good points.... Thanks. >However it raises the question to what the Celestial meaning of "War" >actually is? Well, like I said before. I assume that if it's in the books as "War," it means "War." In this case meaning the bringing of violence to your enemies to destroy them and allow your macguffin to survive rather than theirs survives. Otherwise, the English should be closer to real meanings. >I mean is Michael when the Fall presumably ends and the forces >of darkness are destroyed-really going to just fade away? Can he really >stop fighting after embodying it for so long? Will constant vigilance over >the peace be his new goal or will he fade away with his word? > >(a very good question I think) So do I. I think *Michael* believes so, yes. When all the Wars are fought and won, and God's Truth has been proven to all, and lies uncontested, then... well... "Old Soldiers Never Die, They Just Fade Away." When it actually *happens,* though... well, his Word will exist so long as humanity makes War together, of course. But if even *that* is eliminated, I could see Michael doing the big Fall and launching a second rebellion rather than give it up. >Technically I'm inclined however to believe that War in Archangel terms >actually means "Struggling over Adversity to the end to triumph" Mm. The problem is, we already *had* an Angel of Fortitude. Servitor of David. Fell into the Prince of Cruelty. >(Yves's Dictionary-great for figuring out what Heaven means) which >frankly is rather similar to the Islamic concept of Jihad that i >borrow heavily for. Cool -- can you score me a copy? I seem to be limited by these human reference works, not having the Celestial in front of me.... >This means whenever *ANYONE* had a job in Heaven that required some >effort-it would be strengthening Michael's word. Gabrielle having trouble >controlling the Solar winds? Bah with alittle more back into it, he can tame >his opponent? Uriel wanting to purify this gold but lacking essence, his >enemy won't stand a chance with Michael's help. See, I just don't see this. Michael is the ultimate Romantic Miltonian (despite Milton's own Ultimate Romantic Miltonian being Lucifer). He is the ultimate force that struggles against the entire universe if necessary to force his one true correct view out -- the ultimate hero and the ultimate positive force of Ego. Yes, he would step in and help, but Gabriel (and did you really mean to make Gabriel masculine in your comment but use the feminine version of the name?) having trouble with the Solar Winds wouldn't call upon the ultimate warrior to help her control it. David, the Unifier, perhaps... Snuff rogue Solar Flares out, maybe that would be Michael but still... And Uriel calling upon him for any struggle? Michael sat out the Purity Crusade, and publically said it was a mistake to alienate all those potential allies against the Hordes. Sounds to me like Michael isn't quite that easy to call... >Baal as Michael's right hand command was basically back then not Valor in >the fields of battle so much as "Courage in the face of Discouragment". But that's not *Valor.* See, it does no good for us to define the Words of the Celestials (War and Valor, in this case) and then say that they don't mean what we think of when we see War and Valor. In fact, it makes all Words irrelevant since they all become GM perogative, and that makes for a nigh impossible common playing field to discuss these things in. >Whenever a mama Brotosaurus whacked a T-Rex with her tail instead of running >in order to protect her offspring, that was Baal. That was valor in action, yes. But I don't think it would be an important enough part of existence before the Fall to necessitate an Angel embodying it. Especially since we *know* Michael received his Word *after* the Fall. I still say that without War, Valor is not relevant enough to be an Archangel's Word. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:15:44 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Lilim >If you dig around in the INC, I think you can find Em Dresner's long-ago >thesis (is that the right word?) about the non-canonical reproduction >of the Bands. (I forget what she had for Shedim...) I'll have to check that out. >The people authorized to _create_ canon are few, and none of them, forgive >me my bluntness, are you. Yes ergo why I suggested it. No offense intended to the lovely people who do it. >The words that you are looking for here are "In My Campaign." Those >three little words, often abbreviated to IMC, are all that are needed >to preserve peace on the list, and confusions from yours-truly about >whether you _mean_ in your campaign, or if you are honestly confused about >what _In Nomine_ canon is. Not at all; knowing that authors and creators of In Nomine write on this list I was giving my humble suggestion to them to consider these alternatives for the orgins of the Lilim not knowing that they were already being treated as a demonic type of Celestial (rather I assumed they were something unique and thus in bear of further investigation). Forgive my vagueness-as it frankly was also a IMC suggestion to other Referees. >Feel free in your campaign, but in canon, those who have a reason to >research such things generally believe there are less than a dozen >alive in Heaven. In canon, there are 1.5 Bright Lilim named. Mira, >Bright Lilim of Dreams, and in the Liber Servitorum, "Dee," Bright >Lilim of Creation in service to Flowers. Really? I wasn't so sure any real impliance was made. Frankly given that the number of servitors, superiors, etc can vary so much I was wondering if this was actually an issue. Personally I always could see Michael having several Lilim devoted to redeeming their sisters and generally acting like Emma Peel in the Avengers. Also who knows how many Lilim might actually want to spend time in Heaven after being redeemed in order to overcome their traumas. Sort of like once you find out just how badly abused you were in the service of Andre you need a long vacation if you catch my drift to re-oreintate. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:21:42 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Archangel Eve EDG wrote: >Maybe we should do something funky with this. Say, a bunch of us each >do our own take on Eve, Archangel of Women (or Princess of >Submission, if you *really* want to get wonky) and see how it turns >out. We could all agree to put them up on the same day -- say, on a >website or the like. Well i was always considering Yves to be Adam for my game....think of the evidence... * First Soul created by God * Names everything * Has all the knowledge from the apple However I could never figure out where Eve went (unless she became Kronos) or Lilith killed her. Personally I liked the In nomine writup where it had Eve as wandering around insane and Adam the most powerful of sorcerors alive. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:36:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Eve At 4:21 PM -0400 7/10/00, Charles Phipps wrote: > >However I could never figure out where Eve went (unless she became Kronos) You know.... That could be a really cool interpretation... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:37:45 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim Steven Feldon wrote: > > Get it published, even in Pyramid, and we'd _love_ it. Yes, there are _way_ > more fragmentary characters then whole ones. One of the revisions I'm > working on in my Copious Free Time is having a page reference for _each_ > piece of information, so that you could clearly see that (for example) the > Band of the Demon of Pipe Bombs came from the main book, but the name came > from the Pyramid article, "Demons of Things That Go Boom Bigtime". It'll > never happen, but it would have been a good way to start the db out. Free time? Whazzat? > > And how do you know I'm not comforted? She was being nice to me! :) No one is comforted by patpats unless they make a special effort. =) [For those who don't drop by the Pyramid MUSH, this refers to various emote settings...] - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:46:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim At 3:39 PM -0400 7/10/00, John Karakash wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> I didn't know! > > [Steven Feldon is *not* comforted!] =) > > I've been so tempted to dive into the >incyclopedia and just make up stuff to fill in >the blanks. There's all sorts of partial >characters that almost beg for some background. Make it up, fine, but it's unofficial till it shows up in a book, in black and white print. Mind, if authors choose to draw from such when writing... Well, that's fine by me... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:50:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine collection At 4:07 PM -0400 7/10/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >What is being proposed I fear would drastically cut someone's chances of >having their work on the INC as the people hosting INC have a rather busy >life (though would know). It might ruin a large number of people's >enjoyment of the INC. Though it might be fun to say in the List "by-laws" >what you post here could well be pubilished on the collection. Should I get a chance, I may try to untangle the welcome notice and putin the INC defaut as "you won't mind if we put it there" -- but until that time... (Yeah, I saw some grumpty emails /posts long and long ago about it.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:07:53 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Make it up, fine, but it's unofficial till it shows up in a book, > in black and white print. Mind, if authors choose to draw from > such when writing... Well, that's fine by me... Hence my writeups of various Word-bound Servitors mentioned in the APG and IPG, originally slated for the Liber Servitorum but now just unofficial creations: http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/INnpcs.html - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:19:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim At 4:07 PM -0500 7/10/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Make it up, fine, but it's unofficial till it shows up in a book, >> in black and white print. Mind, if authors choose to draw from >> such when writing... Well, that's fine by me... > >Hence my writeups of various Word-bound Servitors mentioned in the APG >and IPG, originally slated for the Liber Servitorum but now just >unofficial creations: > >http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/INnpcs.html (With, might I add, my great regrets that the playtest hated the idea of having the Word-bound in LiberS. Someday, curse it, someday! Someday they will have space to roam FREE!) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:59:03 -0500 (CDT) From: edg@pyramid.sjgames.com Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim > Hey, what about an Archangel of Manly Men? If we're gonna cover women and > children, ya can't leave the guys out in the cold! :) Isn't that Michael? ;) - -EDG more power! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:04:18 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim > (With, might I add, my great regrets that the playtest hated the > idea of having the Word-bound in LiberS. > Someday, curse it, someday! Someday they will have space to roam > FREE!) Liber Whupassorium. Or something. I think a book of Word-bound would be wonderful. If you include a few renegade Word-bound, I know I'd be foaming at the mouth for it. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:37:45 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim In a message dated 7/10/00 12:34:04 AM Central Daylight Time, j_hart@hotmail.com writes: << > > > > Hmmm, I think I may just have to play around with the concept of Eve, > > > Archangel of Women, creating a choir to balance the Lilim... > > > > That's a little narrow. Hey, if you can have an Archangel of Children ... >> Hey, what about an Archangel of Manly Men? If we're gonna cover women and children, ya can't leave the guys out in the cold! :) Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:55:40 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> Not That I Believe It, But . . . I just had an amusing idea. While we can't use a lot of the INS/MV ideas in general games, they make such wonderful rumours to frighten your players with. Who knows, some of them may even be true . . . So hush. Pass the word. There are whispers all over Heaven and Hell. Not that I believe it, but a friend of a friend said that . . . Dominic plans to install subcutaneous transmitters/receivers in the vessels of all angels on Earth, so they can be easily tracked. (There are also whispers that he plans to include a small explosive charge, too . . .) Dominic and Asmodeus run an organisation together called the Bureau, employing renegades from both sides, as a private strike force. Dominic has a private little domain in the middle of Hell, used as a torture chamber for the most treacherous or heretical angels, run by a subordinate named Joseph, reached by a private stairway from somewhere in the Celestial Tribunal. Novalis founded Rastafarianism and gave birth to Bob Marley. One Love! David recently had a purge of his angels, throwing out some of the most neo-nazi and fascist types en masse. They're currently down in Hell and plotting revenge. Michael and Laurence recently had an all-out brawl, with Michael accusing him of being a little fascist moron, and Novalis had to separate the two -- right in the middle of the Seraphim Council. Laurence and Khalid not only fought at Poitiers, Laurence physically killed Khalid's vessel, and was somehow warped by the encounter, as were his angels with him. Serial-killer tendencies? Surely not . . . Jean's rise to Archangel came while reworking some material given to him by Yves, which might actually have belonged to other angels who were deprived of the credit. These angels might now be planning revenge. A lot of revenge. Not that Jean would ever admit to any of this. The child of a renegade angel and a renegade demon (with the help of a powerful relic and the Song of Fruition) is out there being reared by a voodoo cult revering Baron Samedi as their new messiah. Seth, the third child of Adam and Eve, is out there, and ate part of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, founded Gnosticism, and is planning an assault on the Marches. Laurence really wasn't happy about the whole Islam thing. He tried to kill Gabriel personally, and managed to injure him severely, resulting in the Archangel's current condition and sanity (or lack of same) . . . Blandine frequently has sexual affairs with her Master-level angels, and Dominic is investigating the whole question very seriously indeed. She's also been accused of amours with Princes, such as Valefor or Andrealphus. Dominic intends to crack down on "heretical" versions of Christianity by planting evidence of demonic interference among them, then mounting search-and-destroy missions after the evidence is found. Marc's angels are starting to get "Stockholm Syndrome" from having to act as negotiators too often. You can't trust them in a crisis situation -- they're liable to side with the demons rather than the angels. Michael's been recruiting Ethereals. A lot of them. And he has strong allies among the Vikings. Yves and Kronos are secretly allied to keep the world moving the way they want it. Dominic and Asmodeus are secretly allied to get the world moving the way they want it. Baal is breeding supersoldiers, and has been having a taskforce (separate from Vapula) work on some hightech "fake flying saucers". The idea of starting another war by faking invasions or fake invasions is appealing . . . Some renegade overenthusiastic angels of Jordi are working on a virus that'll make humans (a) sexually hyperactive, (b) stupid, (c) sterile. Presto, no more human problem . . . Janus is Valefor. No, wait, Valefor is Janus. No, wait, it's all a plot of Dominic's to see who believes it and then accuse them of heresy . . . Marc sells promotions for money. A lot of it. Belial is empowering a crack group of Soldiers with loads of attunements and extra gubbins, and plans to use them as an undetectable strike force, Real Soon Now. Saminga is working on creating a new form of undead. Now if only he'd stop leaving them in places on the Earth, and then forgetting where he put them and sending out teams of his demons to find them . . . Kobal has a crack team of demons busy faking historical records and artifacts, and then planting them for embarassing discoveries. (What do you mean, they just found a secret box in the Pope's private quarters from 300 years ago, containing historically accurately dated sex toys and bondage gear with the names of Archangels on it?) Andrealphus has created a variant on Viagra (he calls it Viegro) which is a definite aphrodisiac with mildly addictive qualities, and is working on getting it onto the market. Asmodeus and Dominic are working together to push some Prince or Archangel into overly obvious action, so they can then point at it as an example of lax control and try and take more power. Vapula has a working gene recombinant reconstruction project, and is using it for new Vessel design. Uriel's still in Heaven. He has a little office at the back of the Celestial Tribunal, as part of the Recycling Department. Jean and Kronos both have working time travel. Are you sure things are quite the way you rememer them? There are still dragons out there in the Marches, and some of them can reach Earth. Remember that report of the man found burned to death? Your Superiors want someone to look into it . . . And more, of course. Genevieve - --- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:29:56 -0400 From: David Wood Subject: IN> The Impudites call it "Quality"! (was: All The Fuss...) Quoth Whistling in the Dark on 7/9/00 9:27 PM: > At 3:30 PM -0500 7/9/00, Tafka J. wrote: > Bite the bullet, Tafka. They're that rarity of rarities -- popular > because they're high quality. Not that Nybbas isn't trying his best > to hide that. Nybbas? Hide quality? Say it ain't so! One of Nybbas' possible personalities is that of the psychopathic advertiser. Extol the virtues of anything and everything, and get as many people hanging on his every word. This is what he does with (pardon my Reverse Enochian) 'crap.' He charms (nay, enraptures) people with the good points of things, glosses over or hides the negative points, and then sells it for the Essence. Now, you might *think* Nybbas wouldn't care about something that's actually *good*, but he would most definitely take interest. People will pay for crap, but they'll *come back* for quality, and repeat business means he can make people pay through the nose twice (or more!) for something. So on any given single bottom line, Nybbas doesn't seem to appreciate anything that's genuinely good. However, he would definitely have an interest in the creator of such quality. He'd turn his full attention to that person, in an attempt to get her to crank out as much as possible. And if it turns into crap somewhere along the line, well, Nybbas can still sell the present crap on past successes, and then quietly cut the author loose when she doesn't produce enough on time. This, after all, is why Nybbas is interested in scouting Eli's agents for writing and creating positions in his organizations: They Do Good Stuff. Pity Eli isn't having any of it... - --David http://home.bluecrab.org/~dwood "I use a body rub called Halitosisto make my breath seem sweet." -Monty Python, episode 17 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 01:40:31 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim >Maybe we should do something funky with this. Say, a >bunch of us each do our own take on Eve, Archangel of >Women (or Princess of Submission, if you *really* >want to get wonky) and see how it turns out. We could >all agree to put them up on the same day -- say, on a >website or the like. >Not really a contest, but just to see how different >ones of us would treat variations on a theme. Sounds like fun. Shall we say, a week from Friday? I've got another interesting little project going on right now, and I don't want to rush it. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for It Never Rains But It Pours __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1707 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.