From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jul 11 11:22:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29801 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:22:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA03329 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:20:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:20:21 -0500 Message-Id: <200007111620.LAA03329@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1708 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, July 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1708 In this digest: IN> Brring. Brring. Brring. Re: IN> A look at Lilim IN> The Penitent Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. IN> Nybbas and quality Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOTa complaint. IN> Michael and War (was Baal) Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOTa complaint. IN> Eat Hot Plasma, Foul Minion of Vapula! Re: IN> Eat Hot Plasma, Foul Minion of Vapula! Re: IN> Really Old Jobs (was Metatron) Re: IN> Really Old Jobs (was Metatron) Re: IN> Really Old Jobs (was Metatron) IN> Zee new online campaign- Call for players Re: IN> Brring. Brring. Brring. IN> Haagenti's Fate Re: IN> Brring. Brring. Brring. Re: IN> Haagenti's Fate IN> Hearts, and Haagenti Re: IN> Haagenti's Fate Re: IN> Hearts, and Haagenti Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. Re: IN> Hearts, and Haagenti ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:22:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Brring. Brring. Brring. This is completely game mechanics-based, so has no real answer except as part of those mechanics, but it occurred to me while abstracting leases*, and we all know that I just LOVE to throw this stuff out there. Who got the first Infernal Intervention? Is he, she, or it known, and respected (if a demon), or shunned (if an angel)? Sounds like a pretty good thing to have on your CV if you're a Shedim. And what happened pre-Fall with IIs, anyway? Did you get the celestial equivalent of "We're sorry, but the person you are trying to contact is not answering. Please check the number and try your call later..." Or something. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Reach Out, Reach Out And Touch Someone *Lease abstracting is second only to dishwashing for pondering weird stuff while you do your job on automatic pilot. Plus, you get your own cubicle! Wahoo. ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:23:28 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> A look at Lilim > >You know, as a matter of clarification she's the Human Princess of Freedom > >in GURPS IN. > > It's only making blatent what's already in the main book -- "technically, > she's not even a demon," IIRC the quote. (Baby sleepng on chest, can't > get at book to doublecheck, consider it showing off my memory if I'm > right.) I knew that, I was just amused that the point was made in GURPS IN. That was also before I noticed that all the Superiors are referred to by Choir/Band. > >The other question that I have never seen asked or answered- > >Can Lilith make anything else? Or is it just Lilim?[...] > > As I recall Walter typing when I was walking around with a sleepy > baby the other day, that's the most Canon CDaU there existed before > the GMG was published. Her writeup specifically said no one knew what, > if anything, she might create besides Lilim, if she's ever tried, or > if she could create things before she became a Princess. > > Mind, if you can pick up a demonling off the street and give it > Forces till it fledges, that's kind of a moot point. Especially since > IMC, I'd let her determine what it fledged into normally. (Though she > would probably ask it what it wanted to grow up to be. And of _course_ > it would owe her.) I like the fact that nobody knows... or at least nobody is telling. That seems so Lilith at it's core. The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:44:19 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> The Penitent The Penitent, aka He Who Atones, is a mysterious NPC who has popped up a few times IMC. He goes by a variety of names, but hi True Name, in his own mind, is indeed "The Penitent" and nothing more (one of my PCs got that on a lucky resonance roll quite early on). The Penitent is a powerful angel... that much is known. Beyond that, all is mystery. Nobody knows his Superior, his true identity, or whether he bears a Word or not. Even his Choir is unclear. He's never encountered in Heaven, only on Earth, where he seems to be carrying out a whole string of difficult, obscure, and very long-term missions for the benefit of humanity. He seems to have several Roles, all of which are covers for deeper and more complex activities (frex, my PCs first encountered him in the Role of Dr. Rue, who seemed to be a simple relief worker in an African refugee camp but who actually was deeply influential in the politics of the entire region). He-Who-Atones has helped my PCs with advice on several occasions, and bailed them out of a serious jam at least once. He avoids combat, but on the single occasion in which he was forced into it, he casually threw one demon's vessel through a concrete wall and sang another one into a greasy smudge without breaking a sweat... though he seemed very, very sorry about it afterwards. Though clearly a being of considerable power, the Penitent is a sincerely gentle soul. And he seems always to be weighed down by some deep inner sorrow... PCs who investigate the Penitent will find -- nothing. Or, almost nothing. Hell has no records of him. Heaven does, but they're sealed, firmly and definitely. Nosy angels who persist in investigating will be taken aside by their Superior at some point and gently but firmly told to cool it. Direct questioning of the Penitent will gain little information; he will simply give noncommital answers, or -- if pressed --sigh, look sad, and walk away. He-Who-Atones is a mystery, and should remain that way until and unless he becomes a central element of the campaign. My PCs got interested in the Penitent at one point, and, by dint of dogged investigation and repeated uses of resonances, managed to (correctly) deduce that he was a redeemed demon. This took some time, and was as far as they got before other concerns took them away. They have subsequently been instructed, upon _dire_ penalty, to keep their mouths shut about this. So, who is he really? The Penitent is -- was -- a very powerful demon; either a minor Prince, or a near-Superior Word-Bound. There are three possibilities: 1) He was Demogorgon, the Demon of Destruction. It's canon that this brute, one of the most powerful of the Calabim, was on the verge of achieving Superior status when Belial eliminated him (circa 200 BC IIRC). The general assumption is that the Prince of Fire acted to pre-empt the creation of a Superior whose Word would overlap his own to a dangerous extent. But it's possible that this is a post facto cover story, and the truth is that Belial was instructed to attack because Demogorgon was on the verge of Redemption. And Belial, not noted for his meticulous attention to detail, may have muffed the job, leaving the Demon of Destruction gravely wounded but not -- quite -- dead. 2) He was the first Demon of Gluttony, the Impudite Carniel. Little is known of this demon, but he seems not to have been a full Prince, and it's canon that he disappeared sometime in the early medieval period. 3) He was Genubath, the Shedite Prince of Rapine, who disappeared under circumstances that remain mysterious when Valefor stole his Principality from him. Whichever one he was, he was discovered by one of the more peaceful Archangels -- Eli if on Earth, or perhaps Blandine in the Marches -- who helped him recover worked through Redemption with him. The angel that came out of this process was much weaker than the demon that went into it, but still a very powerful being... and over the centuries since, he has recovered to the point where he is now an 18-Force proto-Superior (with a terrifying list of Songs and Attunements, though no Word). The Penitent has truly Redeemed, and is sincerely sorry for the damage and evil he caused. The Seraphic Council has offered him a place in Heaven (and dangled the possibility of a Word, appropriately opposed to his old one), but He-Who-Atones has so far refused. He believes that he does not yet *deserve* Heaven, nor will he until he has fully atoned for the damage that he did on Earth. This is his penance, and he has been working at it for centuries now. Eventually, he _will_ work it off, and then he will accept a Word; given his age, power, and experience, it is quite possible that he will become a minor Archangel soon thereafter. At this point, Heaven will broadcast the glorious Truth of his tale of Redemption so loudly that the whole Symphony will ring with it. Until then, he is being permitted to work out his long penance in peace and obscurity (with perhaps a Cherub or two keeping tabs on him, just to make sure). Hell is aware of the Penitent, but does not know that he is a former demon; he has been tentatively pegged as either a powerful Angel of Stone serving one of David's notorious penances, or possibly an unusually gentle member of the Tsayadim. Either way, there's little to be gained from messing with him, so Hell has mostly left him alone. If the truth were to be known, the Penitent would promptly become a very, very high priority target; it's bad enough that he might soon become another Archangel, but the knowledge that a Prince or near-Prince could Redeem is *not* something Lucifer would want generally known. The Penitent could thus become the center of an ongoing campaign, either angelic or demonic, culminating with the revelation of his identity and an all-out attempt on Hell's part to eliminate him. Alternately, he could remain an occasionally appearing NPC and a mystery... something to remind the PCs that the universe is bigger and older and stranger than they will ever truly know. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jul 2000 19:45:19 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. On Mon, 10 July 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Would it be fair to assume -- in the interests of my sanity -- that >> unless folks say otherwise, it's okay to put their stuff on the INC? > > No, it really would not. However, if you batched up the stuff you were > intending to post, and gave an advance warning to the list and/or > the people included on the group, and asked for people who _didn't_ > want it posted to please speak up fast, that would make me happy. And > it would give advance warning that new INC stuff was going to be up -- > sneak previews! No. No, I won't. I started helping EDG because I was sick of seeing the INC a year out of date. A freaking -year-. I've struggled with HTML to get each article cleaned up and pretty looking, busting my butt to clear the backlog of great stuff I have. I have done this for no pay and no thanks, save a credit on the INC. I am NOT going to add another layer of aggravation by asking each and every person if I could, pretty please, put their posts on the INC. Screw it. I resign. I renounce my affiliation with Archives. Sorry, EDG, but you're on your own. I refuse to put up with this BS. - -- Casca, Outcast Seraph (ebertish@techemail.com) _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:01:03 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Nybbas and quality >So on any given single bottom line, Nybbas doesn't seem to appreciate >anything that's genuinely good. Nybbas games at my table top. His vessel is named Kyle and he's always bored by what he finds in the main books so he searches on the internet because "that will have the good stuff"....and we're talking the weirdest stuff on the net. He prefers his games to follow a strictly defined formulae but the hero has to be "cool" and always win in the end....he doesn't believe this is bad storytelling-it's good storytelling because he likes it that way. "Think as little as possible. You'll feel better." - -Balseraph of the Media. The way I see it is Nybbas is hyperactive "I want it yesterday..." (and employs Kronos servitors to get it then), well meaning for humanity and his servitors, but completelty devoid of any sense of reality (all the shy and troubled need is a good slip dress to feel beutiful, sex is carefree and noncommital like having coffee, a beat cop can live in a 200,000 a year penthouse, death isn't forever). He actually believes the world operates like a television show and like Buddah (forgive the blasphemy) is unaware of the ugly truths of the world because everything is on TV. He loves who wants to be a Millionaire because "it could happen to you" and frankly he wants it to happen to you. In my mind Asmodeus considers the elevated servitor one of the best brainwashed canidates because Nybbas doesn't question what he's been spoon fed since he was a familar carrying Vapula's sprocket wrench and transistors. The angels are fascist Nazis, though occasionally they're the "sympathetic villian", and it's there job to be clobbered. (Last Action Hero has a warning against Nybblas-the 12 guys who die because of the heroe's vanity don't matter because their extras-he's still a hero because he's the guy in the spotlight) Drilling home that these people are real, suffering is real, and the like may only be a matter of someone beating the crud out of him and leaving him smoking on the pits of Abaddon for a few years....until then he is trapped in his fantasy world. Eli I think would be a good canidate to give Nybblas Empathy-at which point he'd be a good servitor of Marc but very depressed and wide eyed...and quiet. In many ways he's Christof from the Truman show but easier to save a crack a few eggs for drama. ? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:22:43 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. At 7:45 PM -0700 7/10/00, Casca wrote: >I am NOT going to add another layer of aggravation by asking each >and every person if I could, pretty please, put their posts on the >INC. Our apologies for owning the copyright on our posts. I hadn't and wouldn't raise a fuss. I found it to be an honor and enjoyed the inclusion on the rare occasions it's happened to me. But frankly, I find the assumption that posting in one forum becomes license to post in other forums crass at best, and questionably legal at worst. And actually responding *angrily* to people requesting that you, EDG or whoever have the common, decent courtesy to send an e-mail (*before* HTMLing the work, I'd think) to say "you don't mind if we reproduce your work, do you?" leads me to thank you for your efforts on behalf of the Archives and your resignation from them thus. "Whatever." - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:38:51 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOTa complaint. Whistling in the Dark wrote: > I hadn't and wouldn't raise a fuss. I found it to be an honor and > enjoyed the inclusion on the rare occasions it's happened to me. But > frankly, I find the assumption that posting in one forum becomes > license to post in other forums crass at best, and questionably legal > at worst. And actually responding *angrily* to people requesting that > you, EDG or whoever have the common, decent courtesy to send an > e-mail (*before* HTMLing the work, I'd think) to say "you don't mind > if we reproduce your work, do you?" leads me to thank you for your > efforts on behalf of the Archives and your resignation from them thus. I have mixed feelings on this. Casca's little hissy fit was inappropriate, but AFAIK, it is NOT legally necessary to ask permission before reposting someone's public posts. If it is, then the In Nomine list archives need to be taken down, because everything anyone posts is automatically getting reposted there without their permission. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:26:39 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Michael and War (was Baal) >Thanks. You welcome. >Well, like I said before. I assume that if it's in the books as >"War," it means "War." In this case meaning the bringing of violence >to your enemies to destroy them and allow your macguffin to survive >rather than theirs survives. Otherwise, the English should be closer >to real meanings. True but then again you never can tell because we're dealing with a lanquage that according to Michael's own attunements is 10 times faster than normal Corporael lanquage. These "closest" english equivalents are in my mind very tricky things and have to be examined carefully. After all Stone means "Hardness" as well as "Rocks" with David despite it says "Stone" and not "Fortitude". Flowers means peace despite it clearly says "Flowering Plant Life". Destiny also covers knowledge because that's the foundations of it (Where we are and have been leads to where we shall go). >I think *Michael* believes so, yes. When all the Wars are fought and >won, and God's Truth has been proven to all, and lies uncontested, >then... well... "Old Soldiers Never Die, They Just Fade Away." True however again I'm not sure that Michael will dissapate just yet...surely berift of the thing that has been his existence for 27,000 years (Still..out of ten billion or so....that ain't so much) he will suffer for it. Yet will he really just vanish-the Leader of all Angels? The Holiest one of them all? Stronger than Yves? >When it actually *happens,* though... well, his Word will exist so >long as humanity makes War together, of course. But if even *that* is >eliminated, I could see Michael doing the big Fall and launching a >second rebellion rather than give it up. I dunno...I see Michael as extremely weary of all the fighting with no victory in sight. He still loves recapturing the feeling of knowing "YES, I AM *RIGHT*. YOU ARE *WRONG*" when he beat Lucifer...but I'm getting the impression that's wearing thin with all the infightng and pain that he sees on his side. He blames the diabolicals of course... But his mercurians after all do stop war-not just to weaken baal I think but I think Michael's word also covering stopping war...and gaurding against them breaking out? >Mm. The problem is, we already *had* an Angel of Fortitude. Servitor >of David. Fell into the Prince of Cruelty. No that's "Strength against Adversity" not Struggling against Adversity. One implies a stable constant force that is imovable, unchanging, and strong....another implies more an active response. Like during a fire "Flame-Proof" meaning the same as "Extinguisher." Man I wish I had my Yves's dictionary.... >Cool -- can you score me a copy? I seem to be limited by these human >reference works, not having the Celestial in front of me.... Not really. Yves is stingy with his books. >See, I just don't see this. Michael is the ultimate Romantic >Miltonian (despite Milton's own Ultimate Romantic Miltonian being >Lucifer). He is the ultimate force that struggles against the entire >universe if necessary to force his one true correct view out -- the >ultimate hero and the ultimate positive force of Ego. Yes, he would >step in and help, but Gabriel (and did you really mean to make >Gabriel masculine in your comment but use the feminine version of the >name?) having trouble with the Solar Winds wouldn't call upon the >ultimate warrior to help her control it. Sorry about that. I knew enough to make it a guy, just forgot to bloody use the femmine. Frankly it's a running gag with my seraph (one of Eli's first creations but has a tendancy to lose fights with diabolicals)-he was a female on occasion but usually found Gabriel the male version insufferable. After he switched to the less arrogant type if getting nutty (ironic as he's a humble seraph) female-he's developed a case of puppy love... Wait...that was gratious campaign sharing...bad Charles. The persons I mentioned are very powerful titanic figures and unlikely to call on Michael for but the grandest things in my opinion....Gabriel in this case calling on Michael because the original sun has become a Black Hole and is about to destroy Creation....or something like it. The way I saw it was that Michael was the leader of Heaven, the Foreman while Yves or Lucifer has always been God's private Architect. While the Metatron was the Voice of the guy they're buildling the building for. >David, the Unifier, perhaps... Snuff rogue Solar Flares out, maybe that would be Michael >but still... I doubt David required much maintenece. Michael: Your supposed to look over the sedimentary plates my Cherub friend. David: Righto. 10 million years later Michael: Umm...need anything...? David: Maybe some essence. Michael: uh...good. Carry on. (inspired by Demon prince of Apathy in In Nomine collection) >And Uriel calling upon him for any struggle? Michael sat out the >Purity Crusade, and publically said it was a mistake to alienate all >those potential allies against the Hordes. Sounds to me like Michael >isn't quite that easy to call... Michael was never really against Pagans in my mind-Uriel was kinduv off the wall with his hatred of Rome when Michael probably had thousands of Servitors in the Mystery Cult of Mithras (which probably got him in no small hot water with Dominic). To Mikey it's always been about Good vs. Evil...not to mention his suspicion of Chirtsianity. Michael would prefer to be flayed alive than help the guy who took his job do evil. Ergo why eventually I think he's come to view Laurence as a kid brother since he's not going to do it. >But that's not *Valor.* See, it does no good for us to define the >Words of the Celestials (War and Valor, in this case) and then say >that they don't mean what we think of when we see War and Valor. In >fact, it makes all Words irrelevant since they all become GM >perogative, and that makes for a nigh impossible common playing field >to discuss these things in. Yes but we've got to use "Yves's Roserach Test here" if you look at the word Valor, you get an association...every single association that pops in your head. Let me try. Valor: sacrafice pride (Purple cross flashes across my mind) courage vainglory Strength in the face of Evil No retreat, no surrender... That's alot of shades and nuances. Enough so in my mind the crossover Valor gets with say an angel of fortitude, war, or charity (going on a suicide misson instead of you) or whoever is appreciated by both. . >That was valor in action, yes. But I don't think it would be an >important enough part of existence before the Fall to necessitate an >Angel embodying it. Especially since we *know* Michael received his >Word *after* the Fall. Okay counterpoint though? What if God was playing the deck? Preparing if you will for humanity to need the word of Valor. Since Humans were willing to kill each other with clubs even before Lucifer took a hand to activitly promote it-we must note that evil in In nomine is something all free willed can achieve on their own. Baal might have been preparing for the bigger time. A word before the necessity of it. Like there being an Angel of Fire before there was Fire (light yes-fire no) >I still say that without War, Valor is not relevant enough to be an >Archangel's Word. and we disagree, oh well. :-) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:42:27 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOTa complaint. At 10:38 PM -0500 7/10/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: >I have mixed feelings on this. Casca's little hissy fit was >inappropriate, but AFAIK, it is NOT legally necessary to ask permission >before reposting someone's public posts. If it is, then the In Nomine >list archives need to be taken down, because everything anyone posts is >automatically getting reposted there without their permission. Actually, I think that's part of the Welcome File. Or at least, explicit mentioning of archiving. Anyway, that's why I said it was *questionable* legality, not illegal. But regardless, I think the angry response to a request for *courtesy* about this, on work that *is* Copyrighted regardless of electronic reposting rights (which the SFWA and the WGA are currently in court to set, I'd add), is crass, as I said. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:08:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Eat Hot Plasma, Foul Minion of Vapula! You know, somehow I don't think that the APG was written to allow this sort of character. Granted, it just squeaks by, but what the heck. Like, don't, you know the drill. INC-friendly. Ahh, hubris. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Thank God THAT'S Out Of The Print Queue. It Was Getting In The Way Of Everything Else. Thomas Seraph of Creation IST Lightning Angel of Science Fiction Suggested Word Forces: 29 (OK, OK, 7. Happy?) Corporeal Forces: 4 Strength: 7 Agility: 9 Ethereal Forces: 5 Intelligence:10 Precision: 10 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 9 Perception: 11 Vessel: human male/2 Role: science Fiction writer/6, Status 3 ("Tom Carver") Skills: Artistry/6 (writing), Chemistry/2, Electronics/2, Emote/2, Engineering/2, Knowledge (science fiction books/4, general literature/2, physics/2), ranged weapon/3 (blaster), Savoir-Faire/3, Singing/2, Tactics/1 Songs: Healing (Corporeal/3), Light (Celestial/3), Motion (Celestial/1), Shields (Corporeal/3) Attunements Seraphim of Creation, Seraphim of Lightning, Angel of Science Fiction Angel Of Science Fiction: Thomas gets 2 Essence every time he gets a worthy work of science fiction published, purely on its merits. This can include his own writings, of course. Artifacts: none, per se, but the Halls of Progress have produced equipment that humans should get around to inventing in about three hundred years. Thomas has been known to test some of it from time to time... Thomas ("You can call me Tom") was one of the last angels of Creation to get his Word before Eli went on his Magic Carpet Ride. He had to scramble for a new boss, just like all the rest of his compatriots, though he had an easier time of it than most. A Word-Bound _is_ valuable, after all, and Jean wanted Science Fiction for _his_ organization in the first place. These days, Tom is a fairly well known (and popular) author in the science fiction community. He'd probably be more famous if he let them make movies out of his works, but he's consistently refused. He's also a favored guest at conventions: he knows all the big name publishers and writers, never back stabs anybody, shows up on time and sits on panels with inhuman patience. And he never complains about the meals. Many Seraphim have problems with fiction: to them, it seems like socially acceptable lying that can convince other people to share a common delusional state. Popular fiction is even worse: much of it is genre work, completely devoid of the greater Truths that make Shakespeare, Clemens, Chandler acceptable even to the Most Holy. And people either know that the books are untrue, which is bad, or believe that they aren't (despite all evidence), which is infinitely worse. However, science fiction, when done right (at least from a Seraph's point of view) isn't unbearable. After all, there's nothing wrong with _speculating_ about what the future might hold, or trying to extrapolate current societal trends. Just because something hasn't happened _yet_ doesn't mean that it _won't_. Important Truths can be couched in the form of parables, and archetypes and stock figures are a venerable feature of parables. Even the use of concepts that defy current laws of physics is OK, seeing as humans certainly don't have a fully accurate view of the universe yet. This is where being in service to Jean can be very, very useful. Tom does his work mostly on the corporeal field. There are _some_ things that Jean wants humanity thinking about, and a good hard SF novel in the hands of the right kid can result in a Nobel Prize twenty years later. Tom also tries to keep an eye out for likely Soldiers of Lightning (and Creation, naturally: he likes his job, but he misses the old days). He's influenced a lot of writers, whether they know it or not: his work is clear, concise and fundamentally moral (some have called it "goody-goody"). For a Seraph, Tom's got a good handle on humanity and its ways, but he's still pretty quirky. Luckily, in his chosen cultural subgroup, it's not that noticeable. Tom doesn't see much combat. Part of his success is that he fits in better with human society better than most Seraphim. He doesn't go looking for trouble. His conventional fighting skills aren't particularly impressive, either. However, if and when demons ever do ambush him, they'll be in for a rude surprise. Jean trusts his Word-Bound (even those only in service to him) with all sorts of nasty toys, and it's kind of hard to dodge a fully automatic fusion blaster... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 00:30:44 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Eat Hot Plasma, Foul Minion of Vapula! Maurice, please keep these coming. That one was fun. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:03:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Really Old Jobs (was Metatron) - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >This however begs the question... > >What exactly did the [v]arious [C]hoirs and > [S]uperiors do before [there] > >actually were humans to occupy their time? > > Sang praises to God and fed Essence to their Bosses > for World-Creation 101, > probably... > > Kyrios zooped around wondering why animals didn't > have containers to > poke through... O;> (No, don't ask me how _JORDI_, > of the Superiors > of the Choir that doesn't normally get vessels, > figured out how to > make them. I have a feeling that way back then, the > slide from Word-bound > to Archangel, or even just Way Powerful Angel, was > an easier one, with > the celestials tapping into the great and loving > power of the Creator at > need. (Or, in other words, Divine Interventions were > a lot commoner.)) Perhaps Essence gets stale? Essence at Creation+5years is really potent stuff, capable of moving continents and creating vessels without effort, but as we speed away from Creation, it takes more and more work to do stuff with that essence... Eventually, celestials will be powerless on Earth, and humanity will have to make their own way... bkd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:44:56 +1000 From: Azrael Subject: Re: IN> Really Old Jobs (was Metatron) > Eventually, celestials will be powerless on Earth, and > humanity will have to make their own way... That's one heck of an idea...seems that recently thlist has been full of good idea...Yves= Adam is another tha springs to mind... Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:55:51 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Really Old Jobs (was Metatron) At 11:44 PM +1000 7/11/00, Azrael wrote: > > Eventually, celestials will be powerless on Earth, and >> humanity will have to make their own way... > >That's one heck of an idea...seems that recently thlist has been full of >good idea...Yves= Adam is another tha springs to mind... Agreed on both. Ahh... fertile grounds.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:41:52 +1000 From: Azrael Subject: IN> Zee new online campaign- Call for players Hai all In Nomine PPls, an associate of mine has recently approached me with an offer to organise an online forum based campaign...he seems to think that this would work..I have no idea...so if it goes pear shaped blame him. Anyway, if anyone wants in please send me email and character concepts..I dont know what type of campaign I'll run..but they tend to be light low contrast (but I am slightly inexperienced GM wise)..and hopefully an bit silly. angelofdarkness@dingoblue.net.au Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:42:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Brring. Brring. Brring. Maurice Lane wrote: > And what happened pre-Fall with IIs, anyway? Did you > get the celestial equivalent of "We're sorry, but the > person you are trying to contact is not answering. > Please check the number and try your call later..." Were I to run a "prehistorical" IN that was pre-Fall, I'd treat a 666 as any other roll. You rolled 12 with a check digit of 6. So you probably missed, but if you somehow hit, you hit as well as you could. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:03:12 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Haagenti's Fate In Superiors 2 (and again in S3), Yves' comment on Haagenti is something along the lines of "his fate is darker than even he can imagine". Thoughts on this? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:56:23 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Brring. Brring. Brring. At 10:42 AM -0500 7/11/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Maurice Lane wrote: > >> And what happened pre-Fall with IIs, anyway? Did you >> get the celestial equivalent of "We're sorry, but the >> person you are trying to contact is not answering. >> Please check the number and try your call later..." > >Were I to run a "prehistorical" IN that was pre-Fall, I'd >treat a 666 as any other roll. You rolled 12 with a check >digit of 6. So you probably missed, but if you somehow hit, >you hit as well as you could. I'd treat it as an automatic failure, even if the target number were 12 or higher, with a CD of 6. So, in those days before demons, a 666 meant the worst possible failure. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:18:05 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Haagenti's Fate - --On Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:03 AM -0400 Douglas Muir wrote: > > In Superiors 2 (and again in S3), Yves' comment on Haagenti is > something along the lines of "his fate is darker than even he can > imagine". > > Thoughts on this? > Just one. "Better him than me." Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:24:02 -0500 (CDT) From: edg@pyramid.sjgames.com Subject: IN> Hearts, and Haagenti I don't have /any/ of my books handy, save the main rulebook, so I'll ask here. Can a celestial's Heart shatter without that celestial having a) died, b) been turned to a Remnant, or c) Fallen? What are the consequences of this? What about for Word-bound celestials? (What if Haagenti's stomach is really a gate to Limbo?) - -EDG Oh, hi, Mariel! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:27:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Haagenti's Fate Douglas Muir wrote: > > In Superiors 2 (and again in S3), Yves' comment on Haagenti is > something along the lines of "his fate is darker than even he > can imagine". > > Thoughts on this? Well, the possibilities that occur to me are: 1) Eaten by a rival. 2) Eaten by Lucifer. 3) Eaten by himself. 4) Starved to death. All of which must already have occurred even to Haagenti, so maybe it's off in another direction entirely, not even involving consumption. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:39:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Hearts, and Haagenti edg@pyramid.sjgames.com wrote: > Can a celestial's Heart shatter without that celestial having a) died, b)> been turned to a Remnant, or c) Fallen? Supposedly not, but there was Maximillian in FotM.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:14:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. At 7:45 PM -0700 7/10/00, Casca wrote: >On Mon, 10 July 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >No. > >No, I won't. So don't -- so people who want to have their stuff considered can put that in their email. Basically, I _can't_ suggest that the thing is open season if it's not made clear in the up-front thing, and _that_ welcome message is out of date for many reasons. Not least of which is the baby who is trying to decide if she's going to sleep or scream on my shoulder. Why can't I suggest it's open season? _Because_ it's graciously hosted by SJGames, and _because_ I have seen people go, "Hey, wait, I didn't want that" in the past. (Few and far between, but I recall it.) And _because_ it's not quite the digest, and not quite non-affiliated, it's in this muddy gray area that could get, theoretically, some lawyer-happy idjit trying to sue SJGames in the mistaken assumption that they have money to burn. If it weren't hosted by SJGames, then that would be someone else's lookout and I'd go, "Hey, whevver." But it is. And I can't, responsibly, open that up to a frivolous waving of lawyers. Life sucks sometimes. At 10:38 PM -0500 7/10/00, David Edelstein wrote: >I have mixed feelings on this. Casca's little hissy fit was >inappropriate, but AFAIK, it is NOT legally necessary to ask permission >before reposting someone's public posts. If it is, then the In Nomine >list archives need to be taken down, because everything anyone posts is >automatically getting reposted there without their permission. Wrong -- the introduction to the list specifically states that SJGames has the right to _archive_ the things -- that's the digest, and the archives thereof. The INC is not mentioned as having that right, and since I'm not sure of the status... I can try to ask the SJGames folk about it. If I'm permitted by the Princess of Cute. *sigh* - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:27:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hearts, and Haagenti At 10:24 AM -0500 7/11/00, edg@pyramid.sjgames.com wrote: >Can a celestial's Heart shatter without that celestial having a) died, b) >been turned to a Remnant, or c) Fallen? A demon can shatter his own, with a Will roll, if he can touch it. Presumably an angel could too, but that angel is as close to C) Falling, as makes no nevermind... Other than that, the only D) answer is The Superior-Crafted McGuffin, such as Malphas created in FotM... >What are the consequences of this? What about for Word-bound celestials? The Heart goes crunch. Word-bound retain their Words. >(What if Haagenti's stomach is really a gate to Limbo?) Who'd know? (Well, in our totally non-canon soap opera, a bunch of celestial Vapulans opened a Tether to Limbo and got sucked into it, and for some reason, Jean wanted to talk to them and find out how they did it, so he got Lilith to contact them via the Toss Essence Into Limbo trick, fed them a lot of Essence, and she sorcerously summoned them out of Limbo.* Is that canon? Nope. But the idea of the one human Superior being able to _summon_ a demon out of Limbo, incarnating it into a vessel, was a cool one so we ran with it. YMMV.) (Why, you ask, couldn't one just feed the lost demons a lot of Essence? Simple -- they were sucked in from the celestial plane. You need a vessel to get out of Limbo, and you appear at the point you entered. Think about it. O:> ) (* And hadn't ever really tried that before, was amused when it worked, and started summoning all manner of demons out of Limbo for a while, till the amusement palled. Her corporeal estate now has about twenty Habbalah-goldfish (each in separate bowls) floating in a state of catatonia from being in Limbo for the past few centuries and going totally nutso. Why Habbalah? She decided to focus on those, on the grounds that they might be more likely than most Bands to come out as redemption candidates, and she could sell them to Archangels, with it being very unlikely anyone would ever find out.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1708 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.