From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jul 25 19:25:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04625 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:25:30 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA04759 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:23:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:23:16 -0500 Message-Id: <200007260023.TAA04759@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1732 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, July 25 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1732 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: Net Books IN> Manchurian Celestials (was a villianess I created) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1731 IN> Manchurian Celestials Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution IN> Re: Shoo, shoo! (Re: [slightly off-topic] Latin question) IN> This may start a debate or two. Re: IN> This may start a debate or two. Re: IN> This may start a debate or two. Re: IN> Re: Legion & Haagenti Re: IN> Bizarre Apocalypse (LONG!) IN> The Journey vs the Destination IN> Re: Netbook Re: IN> Re: Net Books Re: IN> Re: Net Books Re: IN> Re: Net Books Re: IN> Re: Net Books Re: IN> Bizarre Apocolypse (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:45:41 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books At 03:49 PM 24/07/00 -0400, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >But the whole kit'n'kaboodle has to be *about* something. "Let's do a >net.book!" isn't an adequate reason to do a net.book. I beg to differ in the strongest possible terms. The most successful netbooks I know of (and I say that without bias, even though I'm involved) are the Ravenloft-based "Book of S____" series, from the Kargatane at . The only theme for those netbooks is that the articles have to be Ravenloft-related -- in fact, the themed netbooks have generally been met with a lack of interest. That's not to say that a theme book isn't a good idea, but it's certainly not the only way to go. Especially for an initial project, perhaps a general book would be better. I'd be happy to discuss the inception and history of the Kargatane with anyone who's interested. - -- "People are stupider than anybody." | hackard@io.com -- Tom Lehrer | AIM: Talthybias | ICQ: 19083015 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:04:20 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Manchurian Celestials (was a villianess I created) >Erm... Not really, no. It's not really that big of a part of people's >lives, as compared to, say, Media which, IMO, already covers a lot of the >more mundane aspects of 'Brainwashing', leaving only the more blunt and >martial uses for this Word. I would have to tend to agree with you rather than overlapping in Hell...because unlike angels demons are exceptionally greedy creatures and when two words might contain an area they react awfully negatively to people who promote them who don't work for them unlike in heaven where it's seen as natural (in hell a person promoting your word from a different superior usually means your about to be assaisinated for it). >In my opinion, of course, but what do I know? Quite a bit apparently. >With care, this could work, I suppose. Generally "automatic success with >sufficient expenditure" is something I tend to eye suspiciously and sidle >away from cautiously whenever I encounter it. And this despite wallowing in >the stereotype of the manipulative supervillain. Sometimes it's fun to ply up stereotypes as they'res a fine line between mythic and homage to blatant cheesy. Personally I think Lucretia will be a good villaness.... Counterpoint however is that spending let's say 12 essence is a gaurenteed sucess (if not infernal intervention) anyway in any roll because it makes it impossible for the action to fail via roll. However you do raise a very good point. Still with some reworking I think these are some better works: Infernal Conditioning: This is an ability that Lucretia gleafully reveals in. With the mild expenditure of three essence a Demon can create a subconcious adversion/attraction to a particular subject, belief, or desire with a sucessful contest of wills. Lucretia uses this ability along with the appropriate songs to gradually wear down the wills of angels under her care and instill in them "hellish ethics" which she enjoys truly. Manchurian Voice: This ability of Lucretia is rather blantantly what it's name implies but actually a rather subtle power that causes a part of an angel or soldiers soul to briefly be forced into an opposite alignment before detonating removing all trace of the memory (translated from Diabolical newspeak-A seraph is made to lie, a mercurain to kill, and otherwise do actions against their nature before being made to forget) with a sucessful will roll. Those actions with which a player would not normally be adverse gain a penalty of -2 to resist. On the latter it might be amusing to award dissonance to those who do the actions then forget....though it might be stretching it a great deal in terms of fairness...it makes it all the more horrofying when you wake up Mercurian of flowers covered in blood and dissonant. (That begs the question-if a celestial does an action involentarily does he suffer for it?) >But it should still be a contest of wills, as opposed to a simple "I have >to spend X but I always win". >IMO,BWDIK. YMMV. Perhaps. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:40:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1731 - ------------------------------Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:49:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books >If it's going to be a net.book, it should *be* a >net.book. Which means variations on a theme at the >least. Vignettes, sure -- alternate takes and stories >on a theme? Yup. Rules and flavor and stuff, sure. >But the whole kit'n'kaboodle has to be *about* >something. "Let's do a net.book!" isn't an adequate >reason to do a net.book. "Let's do a net.book on >Historical Superiors and Word-bound!" or "Let's do a >net.book on Calabim!" or "Let's do a net.book on >Organizations like the Templers, the Freemasons or >other pseudo-Illuminati or Golden Bough stuff!" -- >those are adequate reasons. They inspire people to >want to pitch in and help. Very well. "Let's do a net.book on that neat Blandine/Laurence High Romance thingy!" I mean, it's already got at least three people that I've noticed (including me) interested enough to toss out semi-formed ideas. It's got Romance, Pathos, Long-Term Consequences, Drama ... and it can appeal to both gearheads, and FAWs (like me). Plus, it'll give me an excuse to expand that entire wedding scene, which would in itself be enough reason for me to push the idea. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Enlightened Self-Interest __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:41:08 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Manchurian Celestials >From a fallen's point of view, brainwashing could include all of >psychotherapy, plus cults, and propoganda. Advertising, >espionage/counter-espionage, rumors, and education also all fit well here. >It could be a very large word, with sufficiently broad interpretations. Indeed true, I actually thought her servitors might specialize in that (though she hasn't really gotton a chance to broaden her propaganda muscles since she got the word after the World Wars and Stalin). Indeed it likely would be broadened to "Mind Control" or "Manipulation" if she actually achieved a Princedom by corrupting a Malakim. Right now I see her as a fairly major word in Asmodeus's service but more interested in her own "projects" than ruling legions in Hell (though I was tempted to make her a Marquis in Asmodeus's service). >No character should be able to force another character to act/react without >a contest of wills. Period. There should always be an ability to have >influence over your own choices and lives. Some actually don't go this far and do not allow seduction rolls or any form of contest of will relying on player maturity to nod that this person who is "irresitably attractive" or the torture that you are being put through "will be resisted". I tend to believe the former while the latter I say the body reacts in ways the mind would not do so.... "The mind was willing but the body weak" (indeed the only reason I don't require rolls for seduction is because my players ARN'T mature enough to resist the antics of that cute green horned gal) >I've walked away from games where GMs have taken that away, and would do so >if it happens again. Its lousy as a plot device, and it is worse as a >character power. I already gave my defense but it's mainly a character excuse to explain why in an escape attempt the Malakim attempts to kill them for being traitors to the Holy Cause of God while the Habbalah here are nice with the pretty medicines and beutiful delights... Or whatever I want to do. Some ideas for torture are already: The Chamber of Illusions (for Seraphim): Everything around you is a lie but beutifully pleasant in it's illusionary nature. A garden of eternal bliss, a loving spouse, etc....everything that they've managed to deduce about your secret wants and desires in the "holodeck" here....of course you KNOW it's all a lie but do you resist? The truth is manifested as a horrid breaking of serene life and harmony and conditioning to lie "I am Truman and not Ussiel" is a common test. Pain therapy might be good here inbetween to soften you up but not enough for you not to resist, enough to let you believe that you are "The Most Holy" The Prison Block: Cherubim I think are likely put with other prisoners in an attempt that they will form a bond and try and protect them....at which point they are forced to watch them tortured, battered, beaten and the like. At some point Lucretia will hopefully break the other prisoner and have them do something horrible to their fellow inmates or the Cherubim's companions in order to get them to lose faith in their protectees... Sensory-Deprivation: For Olfalim mostly locking them in a cell with flesh rending insects, burying them alive in Abbadon in a casket and forcing them to crawl their way out, a bodysuit and muzzle in a black inky darkness where they are kept. No mental stimulation at all as well because that at least is an escape..... I'm thinking a single door should always be present in their forms if they just will it to be destroyed they can escape...for a time. The Power to Will: Of all the tortures in her room the Elohim probably go through the worst as they are routinely subjected to scinneting mind blowing acts of torture by one servitor of Lucretia while another server (usually a Lilim but a human soul "slave" often works to) with the deliberate intent of getting the Elohim to hate one and love the other. Tortures include drugs that produce great ammounts of pain and pleasure (supplied by Fleurity to affect Celestials), overload one's brain with sensory imagery and information. The end should probably be giving them a chance to seduce their "helper" or punish their captor out of sheer anger and no desire to protect. Malakim: I have no idea what she'd do to them though getting them to break their oaths is likely a good one. Mercurians: Gladiator fighting against ethereals, illusions, and demons perhaps for a time until they start face to face with human souls who are just as thirsty to beat them to a bloody pulp. It's you or them....also placing them in a room with a human attacking another human and a lethal weapon. Thoughts? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:03:21 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution A demon of Pollution, hm. For some reason, that line from Lovecraft keeps running through my mind: "As a foulness shall ye know them..." How about this. Making the beast a Shedite is a little... obvious, don't you think? Maybe it might be inspiring to plug some other Band in there. Ah Djinn, say. Not one of the lazy, apathetic kind... one of the cold, brutal ones who have turned all that Cherubic caring into chilly hatred. "Worthless. Stupid. Monkeys. Running around, fouling their nest... everything creates pollution, you know? Every process throws off some toxin, some waste, some lethal by-product. The monkeys have just speeded it all up a millionfold. "And that's just fine. I don't care about them. I hate them. If anything could be said to give me pleasure, it's watching them choke... strangle... go blind and mad and die of cancers from their own foolishness. That's the part that almost makes me laugh: that they're doing it to themselves. And all I'm doing is helping things along. "You know, if you look at things a certain way... the old ones are right, you know. This War is all about humans. They started it. So it's only fitting that they'll finish it, don't you think? The War will end, after all, when the last man on earth, hairless and spastic and riddled with tumors, coughs up his lifeblood and lies down to die beside an acid stream somewhere, beneath an empty and poisonous sky. And Heaven will be silent, because they'll have done it to themselves. "Then maybe I'll get some rest. Meanwhile, there are new plastics to develop, legislation to be repealed... and, oh, one of my servants has some very clever ideas about long-term heavy metal poisoning. It's a dirty job, but..." Would that help, at all? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:18:46 +0800 (PST) From: "Angelo Bautista (Wyrm Puff)" Subject: IN> Re: Shoo, shoo! (Re: [slightly off-topic] Latin question) On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, in_nomine-digest wrote: > > At 2:28 PM -0400 7/24/00, Thomas J Howell wrote: > > >I suppose, though, that further discussion of this topic ought to be > >off the list? > > Yes, please. O:> I totally agree. Apologies to those offended and my sincere thanks to those who helped. Thank you. B) - -- Angelo Bautista (Wyrm Puff) =========================================================================== Wyrm Puff's Lair http://www.geocities.com/wyrm_puff/ A.E.G.I.S. Web Page http://aegis.web.ph/ =========================================================================== "ALEA IACTA EST" - Julius Caesar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:42:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> This may start a debate or two. Gee, I've had blackwings on the brain lately. :) Anyway, I was thinking about a particular question, and this popped into my brain. You shouldn't have any trouble figuring said question out, I suspect. Hope you all enjoy, Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Nybbasian Agitprop Aside, Are You Going To Tell Me That There Hasn't Been _One_ Who Feels This Way? Ever? Nathaniel Malakite Friend of the Divine Spark Corporeal Forces: 5 Strength: 11 Agility: 9 Ethereal Forces: 5 Intelligence:10 Precision: 10 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 12 Perception: 8 Vessel: human male/3 Skills: Artistry/1 (drums), Detect Lies/2, Dodge/3, Driving/1, Emote/1, Fast-Talk/2, Fighting/5, Knowledge (Philosophy/1, Malakim Lore/3), Languages (Latin/1, Greek/1, Indo-European/2), Large Weapon/5 (sword), Medicine/1, Move Silently/1, Ranged Weapon/2 (rifle), Savoir-Faire/3, Singing/1, Tracking/1 Songs: Harmony (Ethereal/2), Fire (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/4, Celestial/3), Healing (All/2), Light (Celestial/1), Numinous Corpus/2 (Wings), Shields (Corporeal/3, Celestial/1), Tongues (Corporeal/1) Attunements: Malakite of Fire, Mercurian of Fire, Friend of the Divine Spark, Smite, The Last Spark Oaths: "Suffer not an evil to live, if it is my choice." "Never surrender, or be captured by the forces of Hell." "Always remember that what I have become is a tool, not an excuse." "Never forget the ideals that I once embodied." Nathaniel is one of the original Malakim. Since his conversion, at the height of the insanity and chaos of the Fall, he has served Gabriel as one of her troubleshooters. He is sent to the cruel, and shows them the folly of their ways with flame and the sword. His eyes have seen the dishonorable, and his hands have sped them forth to their just rewards. Like all his kind, Nathaniel's blade has been drenched in the blood of the wicked and his wings only stir from the last, choking breath of the cruel. He knows the wild, black joy that comes from evoking his nature. In the name of God, he has justly chastised the worst specimens of humanity for millennia. And he's hated every Damned second of it. Nathaniel, before the Fall, was a servant of Trade, dedicated to the job of teaching humanity how to get along with each other without using a club. He was pretty good at it, even for a Mercurian. It was just so much easier in those days: everybody pitched in, nobody worried much about internal politics, and every angel was your trusted friend. Then, suddenly ... they weren't. Nathaniel doesn't like to think about the Fall. He doesn't like to think about how some of his closest companions slaughtered each other. He doesn’t like to think about the way that some of his own Choir threw away their very reason to exist in support of a futile rebellion. He doesn't like to think about the smoking bodies, the screams of pain and death, the noises, the blood, the ripping ache as the Symphony tore, the mad eyes of the fighters on both sides, the blood, the _wrongness_ of what his senses were showing him, the attacks by those he once called brothers, the anguish and pain and rage that ripped through his soul, the sudden, furious, mad conviction that THIS WILL NOT BE... ... and Nathaniel doesn't like to think about what happened after his wings dimmed and blackened. He doesn't like to think about it at all. When the madness finally receded, Nathaniel was more alone than he had ever been before. He was cut off from his Choir, cut off from his beloved task, and he knew that he could not bear to serve Marc in another capacity, lest his heart break from longing. He gravitated to Gabriel's side, seeking inspiration in his flames, only to watch as Gabriel's sanity eroded over the long years and Fire changed from Inspiration to Chastisement. Nathaniel stayed true nonetheless, hoping to find within the Flame some inspiration that would let him regain his peace of spirit. He's never truly known how well he's succeeded. Nathaniel stayed in Heaven for as long as he could, not trusting himself to walk among humanity. But as Gabriel grew more and more insane, she called on him more and more often to chastise the Cruel. Perhaps she saw in him the same war of self against self that consumes her: or perhaps Gabriel is still sane enough to see that Nathaniel could be relied upon to punish the Cruel without becoming cruel himself. Whatever the reason, it has proven wise. Nathaniel has a solid reputation among the Host as a Malakim with empathy, restraint and a true love for humanity who nonetheless can be relied upon to do what must be done. He is even often pointed out to newly fledged Choir-mates as a good role model. But none of his admirers could possibly guess that Nathaniel spends hours, sometimes, standing in front of a mirror, hoping with all his soul that someday he will see a flash of white among the black... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:49:43 EDT From: Zeresh43@gateway.net Subject: Re: IN> This may start a debate or two. To me it seems very possible that somewhere along the lines, some poor Malakite felt this way. Then again, I'm still new. However, I'm probably going to use someone like this in my campaign if I get around to it. I like his particular choice of oaths a lot, and he's a very nice character overall. So many ideas popping up in there because of him... Thanks Clear Skies all Zeresh, demon of being the annoying new guy on a mailing list ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:08:29 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> This may start a debate or two. At 8:42 PM -0700 7/24/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Are You Going To Tell Me That There Hasn't Been _One_ >Who Feels This Way? > >Ever? Oh. I. Like. This. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 2000 06:09:25 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Legion & Haagenti On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:31:15 -0400 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 11:34 PM +0000 7/18/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:14:48 -0400 Whistling in the Dark wrote in response to Daedalus3D@aol.com: >> [snippity-snip] >>>Right? Right? Anyone? Anyone? >> if it were to be done in one volume, i agree that Liber Temporum has a >>nice ring to it, > >I kinda liked "Book of Eternity," m'self. stick with Libers, wouldja? please? -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:05:05 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Bizarre Apocalypse (LONG!) John Karakash wrote: > > I had a thought (perhaps even a revelation) about a possible In > Nomine campaign. The base idea was to come up with something that > had a totally different feel to current In Nomine, yet be completely > plausible and (mostly) canonical to the rules, if not to the current > universe. Here is another one. Aquinan angels: In the Summa Theologica, Thomas Aquinas wrote that spiritual beings have a different kind of free will than humans do. Humans get to make their choices moment by moment, and the consequences of each action are somewhat hidden from each person. Spirits, unlike humans, got to see the entire history of the universe at once, and in the instant of their creation they decide whether they like it and want to preserve it, or if they want to rebel against the order of things. This struck me as a neat thing to base an experimental RPG around. What's it like playing a creature that mostly knows that predestination is real because it knows what's destined? Since perfect information is hard to roleplay, let's weaken their foreknowledge to "a good idea of what's coming" rather than "every last detail down to dots on the i's." So I figure you could break a game up into two phases. In the first phase, everyone gets together and comes up with the PCs and NPCs, and out-of-character figure out what the plot is, and who does what when. In the second phase, each player takes on the role of a PC, and plays the game, knowing what is foreordained and taking the steps necessary to fulfill the final outcome. Having foreknowledge means that some weird things can happen -- a fight or argument breaks out, and then the winning side concedes because they were fated to lose, or a bored demon going through the motions of a temptation it knows will fail, and so on. Unfortunately, none of my players want to try this, even though I think it would be very neat. :( - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:23:51 -0400 From: "Caias Ward" Subject: IN> The Journey vs the Destination You might want to take a look at Continuum (www.aetherco.com/continuum), the time travel RPG. The concept of free will and knowing your future is very important to it, and you might find it helpful with such ideas. Many scenarios in it revolve around knowing an outcome, but having to make sure that such an outcome occurs. Remember, a lot of roleplaying is not the end result, but the journey it takes to get there. That is where the challenge lies. An example: playing a game about the Fall and rebelling has a certain 'freedom' to it, because you know you are going to Fall and be cast out. It's the battle, however, and the story you tell that is important. Caias Ward www.talespinnerstudios.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Krishnaswami, Neel Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 10:05 AM To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' Subject: Re: IN> Bizarre Apocalypse (LONG!) Aquinan angels: [SNIP] This struck me as a neat thing to base an experimental RPG around. What's it like playing a creature that mostly knows that predestination is real because it knows what's destined? Since perfect information is hard to roleplay, let's weaken their foreknowledge to "a good idea of what's coming" rather than "every last detail down to dots on the i's." So I figure you could break a game up into two phases. In the first phase, everyone gets together and comes up with the PCs and NPCs, and out-of-character figure out what the plot is, and who does what when. In the second phase, each player takes on the role of a PC, and plays the game, knowing what is foreordained and taking the steps necessary to fulfill the final outcome. Having foreknowledge means that some weird things can happen -- a fight or argument breaks out, and then the winning side concedes because they were fated to lose, or a bored demon going through the motions of a temptation it knows will fail, and so on. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:34:13 EDT From: Daedalus3D@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Netbook Okay, it looks like we've got some interest and we'll probably generate more as we get started. I agree with Eric's list of "things-to-do" (and I agree about doing variations on a theme, Eric; we were both saying the same thing in different ways) so to start off: Here's a bunch of possible topics. You guys throw out yours as well and then we can vote on whatever idea we want to do. I'm in this whatever topic we choose, though. 1) Laurence's Courting of Blandine. The original idea, I believe. 2) Grigori, their Children, and the Nephalim. We just got rules; I think it's a great time to create some background. We could talk about Grigori culture, the strangeness of interecting with your descendents on a day-to-day basis, the pains of being a discord-riddled Nephalim. Senarios and campaign ideas for the Grigori and their offspring are all the rage. Heck there's so much: Fallen Grigori, Grigori interection with Remnants (who they have a strong connection to since they've both lost heaven), Word-bound Grigori, servitor attunements for Grigori from the various Superiors (since they may have those left), thoughts on Grigori Archangels, how the Grigori see the other choirs (APG style), even Grigori thoughts on procreation and their love of humanity. This would also be a good place to post people's Grigori conversions from GURPS IN (if we're "allowed" to do that, I don't think that was ever stated clearly). Anyway, that gets my vote, as you can probably tell. I think it's more original and interesting than a book on another band or choir simply because there's little canon information out. 3) Maurice's David and Michael go "help" Blandine Idea (if she'll let us steal it). This could even be combined with #1 if you want things to get really interesting. Ah, Michael and Laurance fight over a woman. Sigh. It's a great idea for a bunch of senarios or even a campaign and the repercussions are all over the place. 4) John Karakash's Someone Broke the Symphony Idea. Man, what is it with guys on this list and coming up with utterly brilliant campaign ideas? Of course, we'd have to get John's permission, like with #3. I don't think I need to comment on how many ideas could come out of this one. 5) Other random ideas: The Quest for Uriel (the Tsayadim's efforts to contact their Superior), multiple historical settings we could choose from, Dead Superiors (but that's already been done in several places, to some extent), and anything else you guys come up with. Right now, my vote's for the Grigori, but if you guys come up with something better, I might change my vote. Later. Daedalus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:03:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Campbell Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books First of all, as far as topic, I'm really in favor of the Courtly love scenario. But I'm not keen on the Michael/Laurence love triangle. As presented. I've always had the picture in my chronicles of David, Laurence, and Michael being "the three musketeers". If not always friends, at least available and dependable backup. So, after all the years of watching the little guy grow up, pulling his feathers out of the fire, and sitting around the campfires singing dirty songs about the other side, what if Michael's developed an attachment to his protegee? Keeping in mind that angel sexual orientation/gender identification is very superficial and several of the Archangels appear as male or female according to their moods. . . What do we think? Jenni ===== "The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - -William Clayton ICQ UIN: 14514495 AIM: Pepper2540 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:17:56 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books At 9:03 AM -0700 7/25/00, Jennifer Campbell wrote: >First of all, as far as topic, I'm really in favor of >the Courtly love scenario. But I'm not keen on the >Michael/Laurence love triangle. As presented. > >I've always had the picture in my chronicles of David, >Laurence, and Michael being "the three musketeers". If >not always friends, at least available and dependable >backup. You can't have a Three Musketeers without Porthos. If Laurence is D'Artagnan, you need to have the other three. Now, Athos is clearly Michael -- older, disillusioned about his lot, having been badly burned before in an embittering way (in his case, the humiliation of being found guilty of Heresy, rather than discovering his wife was a whore, but you understand). David *sort* of maps to Aramis -- he is certainly religious, and Aramis is the most constant of the group. The one who is willing to endure hardship in the name of what's right. So. We need a Porthos. A loud, occasionally boorish, flatulent drunkard of a man who in his bluster succeeds when no one could ever expect him to. So, clearly we're looking at Michael, *Janus* and David, accepting Laurence as a fourth after a bit of time. Which makes a certain sense, since D'Artagnan ends up the commander of the Musketeers. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:45:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books At 2:53 PM -0600 7/24/00, ben wrote: >With regards to Net.Books, how much are we allowed to publish? >Say, for instance, I wanted to do "The Complete Calabite" as a Net.Book. I >imagine I would not be allowed to post statistics on the Calabim from the >books on my website. Most definitely not! You can have some _short_ paragraphs, such as you could use in a review of a book, under fair use laws. For the rest of such rules, I would suggest using the format, "see p. xx of In Nomine" or "see p. XX of the _Infernal Player's Guide_" or some other reference. If you think you're quoting too much, you probably are. If you aren't sure, send me how much you're quoting, and I'll give you my take on it. IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer), so I will be being _conservative_ about what is quoted. Dear gods, don't make me drag in legal-type people to go over the net-books and see if they are quoting inappropriately. Also, remember that there are likely to be some Good Ideas around which may mirror Good Ideas already in the works, to a greater or lesser extent. See the intro to this list -- no, they're not stolen, they're just arising from what's been set up before. As the intro says, don't make us into those Mean Guys who say, "NO PUBLISHING ANYTHING ON THE NET!" (Gods, please don't do that. It'll just make everyone sick and angry, especially me.) If people think the updated intro should be posted here, I'll do that RSN. wigglebaby waking up crying! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:20:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Campbell Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > If people think the updated intro should be posted > here, I'll do that > RSN. We'd sure appreciate that. It's always good to start a project knowing all the rules! > wigglebaby waking up crying! Awwww. I want one. For real. Or a puppy. But I can only have fish in the dorm, not puppies or babies. Jenni ===== "The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - -William Clayton ICQ UIN: 14514495 AIM: Pepper2540 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Bizarre Apocolypse (LONG!) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:21:37 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Bizarre Apocolypse (LONG!) > As far as I can tell, there's no way of really >'fixing' things. Like many things Corporeal (e.g. >Tethers), the Superiors have much less influence than >you might think. If Heaven and Hell _do_ open up >again, it'd be interesting to have things up there >be completely different... Aside from every single Superior bored out of his or her mind, it's not too bad. Asmodeus and Dominic have finally caught on their paperwork, Laurence has got every sword polished and sharpened to a fare-thee-well, Mike and Baal are idly looking at each others' fortifications and daydreaming on how to blow them up (when they're not looking at their own, that is), Beleth and Blandine are playing a game of dominoes with such concentrated menace that it's killing flies at forty meters, even Nybbas can't find anything on TV, and Novalis is advancing with garden shears on a Kobal that has gone one knock-knock joke TOO FAR... I'm guessing that they'll be quite overjoyed when the rain stops and they can go out and play again. Oh, wait, this is a _gritty_ campaign idea, isn't it? Never mind... ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Imagining the War as A Perpetual School Recess Does Have It's Charms, Doesn't It? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1732 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.