From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 26 07:57:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05350 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:57:33 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id HAA31429 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:55:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:55:04 -0500 Message-Id: <200007261255.HAA31429@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1733 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1733 In this digest: Re: IN> Bizarre Apocolypse (LONG!) Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Re: Net Books IN> Net book ideas -- my votes IN> Michael/Laurence/Blandine/??? Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes IN> Re: Netbook IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Michael/Laurence/Blandine/??? IN> Superiors and Free Will [kinda long] Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes IN> IN IOU IN> In Nomine Adventures (Was Dead Superiors) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:52:37 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Bizarre Apocolypse (LONG!) Maurice Lane wrote: > Aside from every single Superior bored out of his or > her mind, it's not too bad. Asmodeus and Dominic have > finally caught on their paperwork, Laurence has got > every sword polished and sharpened to a > fare-thee-well, Mike and Baal are idly looking at each > others' fortifications and daydreaming on how to blow > them up (when they're not looking at their own, that > is), Beleth and Blandine are playing a game of > dominoes with such concentrated menace that it's > killing flies at forty meters, even Nybbas can't find > anything on TV, and Novalis is advancing with garden > shears on a Kobal that has gone one knock-knock joke > TOO FAR... > > I'm guessing that they'll be quite overjoyed when the > rain stops and they can go out and play again. I was thinking more along the lines that the lack of influx of Essence/souls from earth brought things to a boil. The Princes would, at the very least, be considering cutting each other's throats. What if Heaven cannot exist without that Essence from the Tethers? What would a collapsed Heaven look like? OTOH, what if they were just... gone? =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:54:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:03:21 -0400From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution >A demon of Pollution, hm. For some reason, that line >from Lovecraft keeps running through my mind: "As a >foulness shall ye know them..." >How about this. Making the beast a Shedite is a >little... obvious, don't you think? Maybe it might >be inspiring to plug some other Band in there. Excuse me while I go whack myself in the head with the the mystical club known as TunnelVisionbane. Geez, of _course_ I go right for the obvious and decide Shedite. Why _not_ Djinn? Or Habbalite, for that matter? Here I am saying just the other day to myself, "Moe, IN players need more fan-created Habbalah Princes", but do I put two and two together? Nooooo. I have to go with the _cliche_. Arrgh. Thanks for the mental whap upside the head, Mr. Muir. It's got the gears working again. ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word for Maybe Impudite? Naah: Way Too Weird, Even For Me. Lilim, Now... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:10:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books At 2:20 PM -0700 7/25/00, Jennifer Campbell wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> If people think the updated intro should be posted >> here, I'll do that >> RSN. > >We'd sure appreciate that. It's always good to start a >project knowing all the rules! Lemme just demand the data from majordomo, and it ought to be available to me tomorrow. >> wigglebaby waking up crying! > >Awwww. I want one. For real. Or a puppy. But I can >only have fish in the dorm, not puppies or babies. Considering that she's been grumpy for the past... 5 hours or so, yer nuts, m'dear. Stick with the fish. They're quieter, and you don't have to risk your life getting them*. I'd rather do diapers than house-train a puppy, though. (* I talked to one of the nurses who accompanied me on the ambulance ride from the local hospital up to the one that had a level III nursery (the local one only has a level II nursery), and she said my blood pressure was about 190/110. Seizures start happening around 200/110. Oh, yeah, and I hadn't responded to the medication they had given me to take the blood pressure down. She quotes my doctor as saying, "She's going for a ride." Me? Heck, I just felt a bit tired 'cause I wasn't sleeping well. Headache, nausea, weird vision? Nope, not here. Why is everyone being so concerned...? Can I go home soon? Pre-eclampsia _is_ the reason that doctors want moms to start coming in every 2 weeks -- it's apparently one of _the_ major causes of maternal fatalities, that, when caught early enough, stops being a cause...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:22:53 GMT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes Of the ideas presented, I like Maurice's "Michael and David pull a fast one on Blandine" best. I would try to write for that one.* I don't have the Grigori rules, but I'd like to read the net book. The "Broken Symphony" is an inspired idea, although it wouldn't be something I feel able to write for -- I'm a high-contrast person. And I may be the only one, but I really don't like the Laurence/Blandine romance idea. I always pictured Blandine as still pining over Beleth and Laurence as celibate, so that's two strikes. Besides, a soap opera with angels is still a soap opera ... Janet Anderson *If I didn't chicken out. Some of the writing on this list is amazingly good and I'm not sure I'm up to it. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:28:21 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> Michael/Laurence/Blandine/??? Hi, I'm new to the list. *waves*. That having been said, I'm gonna jump in -- I've been reading the recent digests, so I have some idea of what's going on... Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:03:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Campbell Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books > First of all, as far as topic, I'm really in favor of > the Courtly love scenario. But I'm not keen on the > Michael/Laurence love triangle. As presented. Neither am I, 'cause I'm trying to script one where Michael ends up falling for someone else... or she for him... or vice versa... Star-crossed to the *max*, of course. > I've always had the picture in my chronicles of David, > Laurence, and Michael being "the three musketeers". If > not always friends, at least available and dependable > backup. To whoever said you need Porthos -- granted. But Janus? Him and those three have had so little to do with each other in canon that I've seen... he's the best fit for Porthos, but not for their already pre-existing friendship circle. Who can we get? > So, after all the years of watching the little guy > grow up, pulling his feathers out of the fire, and > sitting around the campfires singing dirty songs about > the other side, what if Michael's developed an > attachment to his protegee? I consider that unlikely, for two reasons. a) gender b) age > Keeping in mind that angel sexual orientation/gender > identification is very superficial and several of the > Archangels appear as male or female according to their > moods. . . OTOH, Michael is one of the least androgynous of the Archangels -- he hasn't used a female vessel in centuries, and even that was for strictly utilarian reasons (the target audience would respond better to a female than a male). In all of his writeups, Michael's self-image has been strongly masculine... I mean, he's the *original* Macho Man, the very first. If Michael has a gender-image at all in his mind, he's a man. A *manly* man. It's how he is. Plus, there's also the age difference. Michael is the second-oldest being in creation, next to Yves. Laurence is not only the youngest Archangel, he's younger than half the Host! Laurence was (according to the timeline in the GM Guide) fledged in 50 BC, received his Word in 331 AD, and became an Archangel in 745 AD. That's just about two thousand years. Michael's at least a year older than Lucifer and the Metatron, and the timeline doesn't even give dates before 4.6 *billion* BC (when the Earth formed) save "???". So there's just a *bit* of an age difference, ya know? I can't see Michael ever seeing Laurence as anything other than his baby brother, if not his g-g-g-g-g-g-g-great-grand-nephew. Even if his kid brother eventually gets promoted over his head... when you're an indeterminate # of millennia older than Creation itself, a fledgling whose wings weren't even damp two millennia go looks a bit young for you... (Then again, I can talk about age difference, seeing as how I'm trying to come up with a believable script as to why Michael is feeling kinda soft about a Cherub whose first named apperance in the timeline was only in 23,000 BC, even if she was obviously fledged significantly earlier (I picture her showing up at about the same time that Jordi did, at least, if not David. Kee-ripes, even *Kobal* pre-dates the formation of the Earth... ... yes, I admit it. I'm trying to hook Michael up with Novalis. Now if I could only figure out *how*... yes, opposites do attract, but while anybody can come up with a mediocre script based on that old line I wanna try and find an *original* take, while at the same time changing the canon universe the absolute minimum. It's just that I've got about as much poetry in me as Jean does, so I'm running dry...) Back to the main point. I also can't see Laurence feeling romantic about the being whose respect he wants more than anything else in the universe, save God's. Laurence doesn't want to love Michael, or have Michael love him... he just wants to feel that when Michael salutes him, Michael isn't being sarcastic. For that matter, he'd just like Michael to salute him, period. Or shake his hand as an equal. I don't see Michael wanting to date somebody he looks at as a (much!) younger sibling or student, and I don't see Laurence's desperate need for respect and "I am too grown up!" from his mentor coinciding with falling in love with him. Not to mention that as a devout Catholic, Laurence would probably feel just a wee a bit "I don't want to go there" about same-sex romances... and not only is Michael's perception of himself strongly male, but his perception in the eyes of the the rest of the Host is *very* strongly male! PS -- re: Michael + Novalis -- well, it doesn't help me get it out of my head when you consider that whenever I'm stuck for inspiration as how to role-play them, I keep envisioning Michael as Aral Vorkosigan and Novalis as Cordelia... (Lois Bujold reference) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:28:20 -0300 From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca Subject: Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes On 26 Jul 00, at 1:22, Janet Anderson wrote: > And I may be the only one, but I really don't like the Laurence/Blandine > romance idea. I always pictured Blandine as still pining over Beleth and > Laurence as celibate, so that's two strikes. Besides, a soap opera with > angels is still a soap opera ... Agreement on the first two points, but not necessarily the third. Maybe I've been over-exposed to WAFFy shoujo ai stuff, but I think it would be really sweet to have Beleth and Blandine get back together. I was thinking of the pair of them pooling their power, making a deal with some of the more powerful ethereals, and making the Marches independant of both Heaven and Hell. Of course, both Heaven and Hell would be in an uproar. Michael and Baal would both want to use force, but Yves and/or Kronos would over rule saying that this was the path to her destiny/fate. Malphas (dividing the forces of both Heaven and Hell gives his a word a major boost) and Novalis (isn't it nice that they managed to work out their differences) could be lending aid discretely. Possibly Kobal and Eli as well. Possibly Kobal was a catalyst to their renuinion, if so, it would have been one of his bigger jokes. Meanwhile, Dominic and Asmodeus are attempting to investigate everyone who even has a Song of Dreams for possible corruption by the other side. Eli might just say 'Cool,' and leave it at that, or he might be more active participant. > Janet Anderson "Remove the shotgun, add more pigs jumping through windows, you know, that sorta stuff." Philip Barkow pbarkow@is2.dal.ca http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/ Harbinger of Keener-sama Vice President DPG Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper. Head of the Keiko-chanian faction ___________________________________________________ Want free email at the price of your privacy, your soul, and your first born child? Oh wait, that wouldn't be very free... http://cold.mail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:00:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: Netbook Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:34:13 EDTFrom: Daedalus3D@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Netbook >Here's a bunch of possible topics. You guys throw >out yours as well and then we can vote on whatever >idea we want to do. I'm in this whatever topic we >choose, though. >1) Laurence's Courting of Blandine. The original >idea, I believe. And one I'd be playing with even if no one else does. >2) Grigori, their Children, and the Nephalim. We >just got rules; I think it's a great time to create >some background. This could be interesting, too. Although I can't see anything yet that just sings to me... ... Hmmm. >3) Maurice's David and Michael go "help" Blandine >Idea (if she'll let us steal it). This could even be >combined with #1 if you want things to get really >interesting. Ahem. _He'll_* be more than happy to: Eric's comment on Laurence's 2nd Duel with Mikey directly inspired my wedding piece (although I _would_ have liked to write in the 35 Calabim and the removal of the front of the church). >4) John Karakash's Someone Broke the Symphony Idea. That's something that might be combined quite effectively with #2. Heh. You could get _two_ net.books out of this... Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Double the Pleasure, Double the Fun... *Phbbbth. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:08:38 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Glasgow" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 9:28 PM Subject: IN> Michael/Laurence/Blandine/??? > Hi, I'm new to the list. *waves*. That having been said, I'm gonna jump > in -- I've been reading the recent digests, so I have some idea of what's > going on... > > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:03:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jennifer Campbell > Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books > > > First of all, as far as topic, I'm really in favor of > > the Courtly love scenario. But I'm not keen on the > > Michael/Laurence love triangle. As presented. > > Neither am I, 'cause I'm trying to script one where Michael ends up falling > for someone else... or she for him... or vice versa... > > Star-crossed to the *max*, of course. [snip] > ... yes, I admit it. I'm trying to hook Michael up with Novalis. Now if I > could only figure out *how*... yes, opposites do attract, but while anybody > can come up with a mediocre script based on that old line I wanna try and > find an *original* take, while at the same time changing the canon universe > the absolute minimum. It's just that I've got about as much poetry in me > as Jean does, so I'm running dry...) Gabriel or Eli must have done a low fly-by over my head, 'cause less than an hour after writing this, I actually *thought* of a way... even if it requires a Divine Intervention... FANFIC MODE -- ENABLE ==================== "Opposites Attract" Chapter 1 The most unlikely romance in Heaven began with a bang. Literally. - ------------- - --It's amazing, the things that cross your mind at a time like this-- thought Aranel to himself, as the young Mercurian of Flowers frantically dove for cover beneath his desk --I've got Belial rampaging through my Tether and I actually thought about *insurance premiums*?-- ***FWOOSH*** The smoking ashes of what *had* been the cheap Art Deco painting on the wall behind him landed in his hair... along with large chunks of the wall. - --I don't suppose asking if we could talk about this would make any...-- ***FWASSSSSSHHHHH*** Belial suddenly paused for a second in his rampage to admire the more interesting side effects of setting plastic curtains on fire... mmmmm, the acrid throat-searing smell of burning polymers, the leaping and coiling of the thick black smoke... - --... sense? Guess not! Let me see -- exactly *how* did Superior Invocations go again?-- Novalis arrived to a scene straight out of Sheol, as half the lobby was on fire, several of her Soldiers lay unmoving on the ground (--Dead or injured?--, she wondered. (--Check them as soon as you can... but first find out what's going on--), her Seneschal frantically trying to douse his flaming clothes with what was left of the water cooler, and the Demon Prince of Fire laughing maniacally as he finished spot-welding the fire escape door shut with a glance. "Are you *that* upset about what I did with the Burning Man celebration, Belial?" she asked sadly, as she tried to extinguish the flames with a Song. "If you wish to contest with me, then come speak to *me*, not these people. They had nothing to do with you!" "But I"d rather that *you* came to *me*, flower girl," Belial said, pumping his own Essence into keeping the fires lit "... and I knew this wimp of yours would Invoke you as soon as I started making it even a little too hot to handle! Baal calls it 'My time, my place, MY RULES!' I'm gonna have a Tether roast today and I'm gonna use your Vessel for the kindling! So let's get to BURNIN' DOWN THE HOUSE!" And Belial, burning with white-rot rage and glee, lashed out with an incendiary wave that would have reduced the average granite tor to free-floating plasma... ... and ran head-on into Novalis's Shield, as she concentrated and dug in with all of her Essence against one of the most brutishly strong Demon Princes in Hell. "Over my dead body." Belial grinned even more widely. "That's the whole idea." - ------- "What the fucking Hell is all that racket?" Michael snapped out, as the Archangel of War listened to the faint sounds of Symphonic disturbance drifting in halfway across the city. "If it's that far away and we can *both* still hear it, they've got to be wrecking a building!" "No idea, Sir" said his Seneschal. "I haven't heard that much noise since that one crazy Ofanite of Gabriel's lit a bonfire in an oil refin...* ***CRACKA-THOOOOOOOOM***. Both angels winced and held their ears as the already ear-splitting noise of Belial's arsonous rampage was drowned by the atomic shockwave of a Superior manifesting on the corporeal plane in a *really* big hurry. While his Servitor still reeled from the noise, Michael's reflexes were already evaluating the new data.... - --Superior manifesting! Concentrate... Novalis... facing *Belial*? Get range... bearing... *acquisition*! OK, pyro, you picked the *wrong* town to go gate-crashing in!-- Snapping out a curt order to his Seneschal to get back up the Tether and call it in, with a flicker of a Song (--No point in keeping things quiet now, you couldn't hear *Legion's* rampage over all this noise--), Michael teleported straight to where the action was. - ------ "If you can't stand the heat, hippie chick, get back in the kitchen!" Belial crowed, as the force of his onslaught forced Novalis to one knee. "I don't... have to win... just have to hold you long enough..." "For what? For these pitiful worms to get away? Who cares? It's not *them* I want, it's *you*! And you're *mine*, all mi..." ***** WHAM ***** Laurence would undoubtedly have issued a formal challenge first, but Michael never was one to pass up a free shot. Belial's grip on Novalis's arm was broken as Michael's free hand chopped down hard across his wrist, while the axe stroke to the side of the Demon Prince's head sent him staggering facefirst into the nearest wall. "Your skull's even thicker than I thought, lava-brain. Or I need a better sharpening stone." "AAAARRRRRRGGGGH!" "Guess the sharpening stone's OK, then." - ----------- Novalis lay on the floor, exhausted from the effort of having contained Belial's full berserker onslaught to her and her alone while simultaneously Attuning to the injured Soldiers of Flowers lying on the floor and drawing their wounds into her via her resonance while blocking further damage to her attuned with Self-Sacrifice. Having to turn her back on the Demon Prince even momentarily, so as to lay her hands on her wounded servitors, had granted him a significant advantage which he'd used to the fullest. But there hadn't been any *time*.... - --He *stopped*? What in Heaven's name could have diverted Belial's atten... Oh. *Him* *sigh* I must remember to thank him for stepping in, but... there he goes *again*...-- - ---------- Smiling from ear to ear despite his singed clothing and blistered hand, Michael feinted with his axe and then rammed his off hand straight into Belial's solar plexus and then swiftly threw a knee into Belial's face as he doubled over. Belial howled indistinctly through his smashed teeth and lunged forward from his crouched position, coming up and over and trying to overbear the Archangel of War via sheer brute strength and aggression... ... with predictable results, as Michael deftly stepped aside and redirected Belial's rush straight into one of the support pillars with a simple hip-throw. The pillar cracked along its length. - --Now I know why Baal keeps telling me that only he gets to fight Michael. Nobody else *wants* to.-- - ---------- - --Has no one ever told Michael that only a fool fights in a burning house?-- Novalis thought wearily. --Or is he just trying to save the building by destroying it?-- Between the thick gouts of smoke from the burning couches, curtains, and ceiling and the flying pieces of wrecked furniture from the wrestling match, visibility was at an all-time low. Novalis and two of her freshy-healed Soldiers peered dimly through the gloom, trying to locate and move to safety the limp and unmoving bodies of the few customers that had still been in the day-care center at this late in the afternoon. --At least he's keeping Belial too busy to think about lighting new fires *this* time-- Belial desperately threw almost all of his remaining Essence into fueling his strength, as he tried frantically to break Michael's grip so he could get the Hell out of there! Managing to momentarily break free of the avenging Archangel's clutches, Belial reached under his jacket, tossed his last-ditch surprise on the floor, and skedaddled. - --Hmph! So much for *him*... what's that?-- - ------------ - --Thank Heaven, he's gone... what's that?-- - ------------ Seeing the bomb dimly through the smoke and haze, Michael instantly went into action. That much C-13 would drop the entire building if nobody did anything, and knowing Belial the fuse was shorter than Magog's temper. No problem. Just dive on the bomb and activate a Song of Shields, and the new Vessel'll be ready before lunchtime... - --Somebody else jumping in! Catch them and toss them back before it's too...-- - ----------- Seeing the bomb dimly through the smoke and haze, Novalis instantly leapt into action. She couldn't possibly let Belial's bomb -- it had to be a bomb -- detonate *here*, and neither of her Soldiers knew the right Songs. A simple Song of Motion to teleport the bomb away to somewhere harmless... - --Oh, *no*! *Not* someone jumping in and trying to be a hero *now*! Blocked my line of sight! Got to get there and Attune to them before it's too...-- - ---------- Turning to catch and toss back what Michael thought was an overly bold Soldier of Flowers (--Now *there's* two terms I never thought I'd use in the same sentence.--) at the last second as Novalis came diving in with arms outstretched to try and absorb the damage from the 'Soldier' as well as get a look at the bomb again, Novalis and Michael ended up nose-to-nose and at arm's length. As the Attunement link formed between them and the Shield snapped up around them both. - --------- - -- *Novalis*? What is she *doing*? I *had* it, everything was under control, does she really think I'm going to let a bomb explode in a day-care center just because there's a Demon Prince I could be following? I've half a mind to resonate her body language just to see what she Truly thought was going on here-- - -- *Michael*? I thought he'd be charging off after Belial! And it isn't it typical of him to *jump* on the grenade instead of thinking to just toss it away? I've half a mind to use this Attunement just to see what on Earth he thought he was *doing* here...-- - ----------- "Oh!" "Oh." Time stopped as they stared into each other's eyes... - ----------- - --She Truly cares--, thought Michael. --Belial put her through enough pain for any two of my average weeks, and she's nowhere near got my damage resistance, and she *still* didn't slow down a second when she thought somebody was about to be hurt, leaping straight into the fire again...-- - --He *cares*--, thought Novalis. --I thought he'd be just focusing on his little War with Belial, but when the choice came to follow Belial up and try to finish him off or save these few mortals, he didn't stop for an instant. He cared more about protecting the innocent than he did about hounding his foe...-- - --She *is* brave and strong...-- - --He *does* have compassion....-- - --I'd always thought...-- - --I'd never realized...-- - ---------- When the bomb went off inside their Shield a second later, the explosion was distinctly anti-climactic. [To Be Continued] - ----------- So, whaddya think? (PS -- if anybody has a better idea to continue this than I do, go right ahead! My inspiration well just tapped out here -- I *do* know that they're both going to have a loooooooooong period coming up of wondering how to deal with these feelings of theirs, instead of just up and moving in with each other right off the bat. Incidentally, I was thinking that Michael would actually -- role-reversal time -- be quicker to come to terms with this than Novalis would. Not only is he the oldest of Seraphs, and as such not really acquainted with lying to himself, but Michael never was one not to face up to something. Plus, there's nothing in his word that says he can't cherish and protect a 'civilian'... indeed, that's one of his usual jobs. If not always quite this personally. :-) Poor Novalis, OTOH -- she's even stronger than him in many ways, but this is the *last* thing in all of the three planes she could ever have suspected -- and Novalis takes dissonance just from *voting* for War in the Seraphim Council (Revelations V: Final Trumpet), how will she reconcile *loving* War? Oh, the star-crossed saga has barely *begun*... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:31:14 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution >From: Maurice Lane >> >Geez, of _course_ I go right for the obvious and >decide Shedite. Why _not_ Djinn? Or Habbalite, for >that matter You know, sometimes it makes sense to go with your first notion, because it really is the one that will work best, rather than trying to be clever about it. There are plenty of superiors already who really belong to the 'wrong' choir/band for their Word. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:48:14 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution At 5:31 AM +0000 7/26/00, Jo Hart wrote: > >You know, sometimes it makes sense to go with your first notion, >because it really is the one that will work best, rather than trying >to be clever about it. There are plenty of superiors already who >really belong to the 'wrong' choir/band for their Word. Agr--(why is Khalid an Elohite again)--eed. I'd go with a Shedite unless the backstory for some other demon was *really* pressing. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:49:16 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Michael/Laurence/Blandine/??? At 9:28 PM -0500 7/25/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >To whoever said you need Porthos -- granted. But Janus? Him and those >three have had so little to do with each other in canon that I've seen... >he's the best fit for Porthos, but not for their already pre-existing >friendship circle. Who can we get? Janus is in the war party, and Janus, Gabriel and David have associations going back to before the Fall, as the Elementals... I always get the feeling that Janus and Michael get along just fine, given their respective beliefs in individuality and in smiting demons. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:22:33 -0400 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Superiors and Free Will [kinda long] Coincedently discusion on the list turned towards this topic the same day I decided to write this while picking up my little brother from camp. Any who here goes. Archangels- Blandine: The most pleasent dream that humanity has, they can not carry on without it. Unfortunately it is often trampled by the battling of un-subtle celestials. David: The belief one is acting as they wish gives strength. It gives me strength. Until it is proven to be a lie, it will continue to give me and my angels strength. Dominic: To say that the Fallen do as they do because they have no choice is letting them off to easily. Without the weight of choice behind actions Judgement is without meaning. Eli: Man, that stuff is deep. We won't know till its all over, anything we say now is just bull. Gabriele: Flame burns as it burns, taking directions only the fire knows it will take. Janus: Change needs people able to change and do what is unexpected. Free Will is part of my Word, I know that its real. Jean: Despite the best predictions of corporeal, ethereal and celestial laws humans still manage to take unexpected actions. However when calculating such things for celestials and ethereals I find that most discrepancies are from lack of data or errors in calculation. Jordi: Such things are irrelevent, instinct and environment determine action for all animals, including humans. Laurence: Without Free Will all of existance would be meaningless, and God does not create meaninglessly. Marc: Free Will is worth a lot in a trade, people will do anything to keep it. I doubt an illusion could be so valued. Michael: Without Free Will the War is worthless, all war is worthless. Me and my warriors are not fighting an empty battle. All the heroes of humanity did not die in sensless battle. Novalis: Of course we can make our own decisions, the world would be a terrible empty place if that wasn't the way things were. Yves: Destiny depends upon choices. Demon Princes- Andrealphus: We proved Free Will during the Fall, when we chose to be better than God made us by forsaking the lies of Heaven. Asmodeus: The great Game of the World does not have room for such silliness. Baal: The War is about free will. It is what we champion, the banner we wave against the divine tyrant. Beleth: Its such a great source of fear. The mere threat of loosing it makes the bravest cower. Belial: It doesn't matter if I burn things because I chose to or not, I still burn things. Haagenti: I make choices all the time. Italian or chinese, mexican or annoying people who ask too many questions. Kobal: Hmm, some of the proofs for it are hysterical. Sometimes I think the big punchline is that we're just some cheesy TV show or something. Kronos: It is futile to struggle against Fate's pull. Lilith: I walked out of Eden didn't I? Maplhas: It can make a single person contain many factions, as they second guess themselves trying to act in a way no one can determine and becoming all the more predictable. Nybbas: Every production's got a script, but no script is implemented totally as written. Saminga: There is no choice but to succumb to Death. Valefor: It is the greatest thing to steal from another. Vapula: I have found no experimental evidence to prove its existance. Yet I also have not found a way to predict all actions. It is a possibility, but a slim one. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jul 2000 10:23:31 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:28:20 -0300 pbarkow@is2.dal.ca wrote: >On 26 Jul 00, at 1:22, Janet Anderson wrote: [Superior reactions to Beleth & Blandine reunion, splitting off the Marches for themselves & Etherials] >Malphas (dividing the forces of both Heaven and Hell gives his a >word a major boost) and Novalis (isn't it nice that they managed to >work out their differences) could be lending aid discretely. Possibly >Kobal and Eli as well. Possibly Kobal was a catalyst to their >renuinion, if so, it would have been one of his bigger jokes. > >Meanwhile, Dominic and Asmodeus are attempting to investigate >everyone who even has a Song of Dreams for possible corruption >by the other side. > >Eli might just say 'Cool,' and leave it at that, or he might be more >active participant. don't forget how buku pissed Andrealphus would be at the negation of his Word and the resurgence of his old Word as the two dream-Superiors reconcile and make kissy-faces. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 06:13:57 -0400 From: Bull Subject: IN> IN IOU Archangel Beth, I just have to say, I LOVE this... I'll probably not get the chance to use this, at least in an In Nomine game, but the ArchDean recently made a "guest appearance" in my Shadowrun game, showing up in Yves Library (LONG story, and an Astral Quest to The Citadel, for those that are wondering) and offering to help the players out... and doing so, about 6 times :] they didn;t realize who she possibly was, despite the "green Skin and Horns" description, until AFTER it was too late :] Bull ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 06:53:38 -0400 From: Bull Subject: IN> In Nomine Adventures (Was Dead Superiors) Hehe... I'm still pretty new to the mailing list, and almost as new to In Nomine (I strated less than a month ago, but... In that month I've devoured all but the GMG (because my GM and the guy who owns it keeps forgetting to briong it over) and the SUperiors books (Because he/we havn't bought them yet)... But here's my take :] (And my apologies in advance if I go over something that's already been said. I've missed a healthy portion of this thread) At 12:30 PM 7/20/00 -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: > >And *that*'s the rub for adventures. SJGames' experience with adventure >books has been that they *don't* sell very well. (Compared to, say, >rules-oriented or background books.) The only lines I know of that have >heavy adventure support are Call of Cthulhu and D&D. > Generally, they don't, though it seems that the nature of the game has a huge impact on this. D&D players, at least once upon a time, would buy anything. This was a good thing, as it created an interesting "Shared World" aspect to the early days of the game (I think Shared World is the phrase I'm looking for). I've been gaming for almost 18 years now, and I have a blast talking with other old school D&Ders about going through modules like the Tomb of Horrors, Keep on the Borderlands, temple of Elemental Evil, the whole Giants series, the Slave Lords series, and more. Unfortunately, newer gamers tend to not have this chance to experience something like this. Partly because now, there's SO much out there, and most of it's out of print (though if you look, you can find almost any D&D module for under 10 bucks, most far less than that). And Partly it's because, while the older games were written like utter crap, most of the time, there was a certain... charm., a certain fell to them that newer games just lack. Maybe that's because I've been doing it so long that it's all become "Been there, done that." These days, Shadowrun is my Primary Game of Choice (In Nomine has rapidly become 2nd though :)) and to some extent, Shadowrun has the same thing going for it. And it shares some similarities to IN as well. I can (and have) had long chats about running through Botteled Demon, Mecurial, Harlequin, and others, discussing what we did, what they did, and how we did the details of the game differently. FASA has, for the most part, stopped doing straight, detailed Modules though. Mostly cause they just don'y (and can't) sell well, but more on that later. And because they've gone to a different style of telling adventures... Most of these are more of a "campaign" style book, where they tell an story and give you ways to write adventures for your players around the story, very much the way some of the Revelations books were (namely the 3 I enjoyed the most: Night Music, Fall of the Malakim, and Final Trumpet). From what I've been able to figure out is that basically, straight modules don't seel for one simple reason: They're unnecessary. A "Campaign" book, ala the Rev Cycle books, are necessary, IMO. They expand on the Superiors, they give new rules, they tell some kick ass stories that furthered the canon plotline, AND they give you some toys to play with if you want to run any of the story as an adventure for your players. The ultimate in useful books (Though hell if you're trying to find a specific rule that got buried in there somewhere :)). With a book like this, usually at least one player in a group will buy the books. Granted, it's usually the GM, but others may buy the books as well, for all of the above reasons. It has just as good a chance of being bought by at least one player, and possibly more, as a book like Liber Cant. However, canned adventures just don't have this appeal. Players who aren't planning to ever run In Nomine will definately NOT pick up this book, whereas they may pick up a Rev Cycle book or Liber Cant. And more than a few GMs will shrug and not pick it up. Canned Adventures (ala D&D Modules) rarely make for good stories, and a lot of GMs just don't like Modules (This I think is partly a "I can do this myself" attitude, and a backlash a lot of "modern" gamers have against D&D. I know most of my group hates Modules, and if I ever run one, I have to do it off notes, and not have the book around. Course, they rarely know the difference, but... :)) In fact. It's basically a "cult" >game -- a small base of very loyal fans. (This may yet turn out to be IN's >state, so that's doesn't necessarily make CoC irrelevant to this discussion.) > Very true. I honestly was very surprised that CoC won any awards this year at origins. Hell, I barely had registered that they were on the ballots. If it wasn't for the fact thata new edition comes out every 2 years or so, I'd have thought the game was out of print :] >Out of the 100+ books published for GURPS, which I think has to be considered >at least a moderately successful game line, there are, I think, less than >a half-dozen adventures. I actually wrote part of one of them, and I *know* >that one wasn't a particularly big seller, despite being the first book >of adventures (more or less) for the biggest genre segment in GURPS: fantasy. > An interesting point to note (though it slightly contradicts some of my comments above. Life is like that, of course). Modules are normally the worst selling product in any game line. FASA (I tend to use them as examples, as they're the only game company I'm familiar with any "inner workings" of, so... They're my frame of reference :)) pretty much killed their Module/Adventures several years ago, with a few lingering books that had been planned trhough a couple months ago, when brainscan was released. They experienced about a period of 2 years (97 and 98) when the few Adventure books they put out pretty much tanked hard (Blood in the Boardroom, Predator and Prey, and Mob War). So they really hadn't produced any real adventures after the Third Editionw as released in 98. Well, in February they released Corporate Punishment, a set of 3 (4?) smaller adventures, not quite as fleshed out as their old Modules used to be, but stil linear, pre-produced adventures for GMs to use, and Brainscan, which is more of an "epic" set of adventures that actually involve the players in an "Uber-plot" that has an effect on the game world. Both of these adventures sold out their first print runs and became the best selling adventures FASA's ever done, forcing them to rethink the whole "killing our adventures" thing. Basically, it boils down to a couple of things: 1) you need to make sure they're interesting and have good hooks, and 2) it helps if you have a Dynamic Game world, and the adventures revolve around events that change that game world. There's something thrilling about saying "I helped Stop Deus", and knowing that, in the FASA SR Timeline, Deus was stopped. And depsite the fact that you know hundreds of groups have done the same thing, you can smile and say "*I* did that." The Rev Cycle Books, if you ran through them, could have that same effect. later down the road, when they refer to Furfur the Demon Prince of Hardcore, you can smile and say "I helped him get there", or you can curse to yourself and say "I was THAT close to stopping him". >> And that means no more libers. (The Canticorum was handy; the others strictly optional.) > Well... I've looked through them, and Liber Cant and Liber Req were both cool. Liber Cant is almosta necessity, and Liber Req was cool for some of the Guidelines on making Artifacts, and for sheer ideas. The Books of Tethers and Servants, on the other hand... If there'd been more info on using them, creating them, etc, and fewer "NPC's", I think they'd have a lot more value. >I don't think any more of those are planned anytime soon -- the obvious ones >have all been done, I think, and they're not particularly stellar in sales, >to the best of my knowledge (mostly from watching what the game store >seems to be moving). > Unfortunately, there's only one game group in my area that plays In Nomine (Though we're starting to infect others :)), and until I strated playing it with them, they'd been pretty much defunct. they'd picked up all the books but Superiors books just out of habit, I think, after they stopped playing, but... Of course, I know that the Percentages change from area to area. I KNOW our area has some unusually high numebrs of Shadowrun players (Our Comic shop sells out 10+ copies of every SR book to come out, and that's despite about 6 of us usually getting free copies form FASA for Playtesting or whatever). However, some game sthat have a steady following (Deadlands, Vampire, for example) barely move more than 1 or 2 copies of a new book, and games like Rifts you have to pretty much ask Jim to order if you want a copy. Bull ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1733 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.