From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 26 14:03:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27303 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:03:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA21433 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:01:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:01:58 -0500 Message-Id: <200007261901.OAA21433@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1734 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1734 In this digest: Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Knights of the Dinner Table play In Nomine Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Re: Net Books Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract IN> More uses of seeds and adventures Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract IN> Adventures in books?? Re: IN> Dead Superiors IN> Amusing Campaign Premise Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Re: IN> Dead Superiors Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract IN> Beleth and Blandine's relationship IN> Fwd: Majordomo results: Re: Majordomo results: Majordomo results ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:13:23 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors At 11:46 AM 7/20/00 -0600, ben wrote: > >Hmmm. Would "The Complete Calabite" sell? A book dedicated to a single >choir/band? > Eeep :] Honestly, I don;t think well enough, unless it was a smallish book priced veryr easonably (6-8 bucks, in the size/format of a Deadlands Dime Novel, maybe). So far, this is my only complaint about In Nomine (And the fact someone is interested in a book like this just confirms this suspicion)... the game suffers from some very fractured, scattered information, despite the relatively low number of books available for it. I mean, if you want info on Michael, it's like "See the Core Book, Rev Cycle X, and Superiors X". I would assume the Superiors book would collect and expand on the Micahel info from the previous books (I haven't gotten to read the Superiors books yet), but then it also invalidates material from these other books. The Choirs/Bands are the same way, as there's basic info in the core book, and expanded info already in the Infernal players Guide. Putting out a series of Band Books effectively negates the worth of half that book... I can understand the need to do this in a new game, especially one with an ever expanding game world (or what i hope is one :)), but it can get frustrating and a bit overwhelming to a new player or GM. Bull ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:06:46 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors At 11:40 AM 7/20/00 -0600, ben wrote: >The other problem is that everyone has their own ideas on how to run the >game. Some run their games comically, others run them with very low >contrast. I know I don't consider my games a success unless lots of things >blow up. :-) > Very true. No matter what game you're playing, every GM and Player has a different idea of what they expect that game to be. :] >Put together a book of adventure seeds. This is done, sort of, in the >Superiors line, but most of the seeds seem geared towards the laughline >style of play. Either neutralize the seeds so anyone can use them or -- >better yet -- provide seeds for varying styles of play, and run with it. > The thought of trying to put something like that together scares the hell out of me :] ((Good thing I'm a Malakim :)) Bull -- Malakim of Michael ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:03:53 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors At 12:07 PM 7/20/00 -0500, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Whistling in the Dark" >> >> up. (For instance, the one about the cult, that had the >> "supplementary book" that was a file of all text based convo? The >> novella was worth the price of admission alone.) > >Agreed completely on that one! Even when I decided to sell all my Shadowrun >stuff, I kept the one with the novella. > Missing Blood. The United Brotherhood adventure. Remind me to tell you about our experiences with that sometime... (Hehe... Shared World experiences I mentioend in another post coming to the fore again :)) Bull ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:22:30 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors At 09:21 AM 7/21/00 -0700, Jennifer Campbell wrote: >*explosive burst of Mountain Dew out of nostrils* > *Bull mimicks that gesture with Pepsi* Owww... Cola burns when it shoots out your nose! :] Bull -- Malakim of Shooting Pop Out Your Nose _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:23:29 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> Knights of the Dinner Table play In Nomine At 01:18 PM 7/24/00 -0400, Charles Phipps wrote: >>Would you mind if I posted this on my site? It would go WONDERFULLY in my >>humor section :] (It's not really an In Nomine site, but THIS is >>priceless! :)) > >No problem dude. I always like being spread. > You've been spread Ewwww..... Anyways, I have this up at http://bull.dumpshock.com/humor/kotd.html I'm currently trying to finish another project or two and then do a full page update, so this is as yet unlinked. I'll hopefully have it up and linked from the rest of my page by Friday. Bull _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:01:22 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors At 12:42 PM 7/20/00 -0400, Galen G. Silversmith wrote: >FASA's Shadowrun has a large number of adventure support. It is, IIRC, >much heavier than CoC's support. (there was also some support for >earthdawn.) > >Shadowrun is a real anomialy here; it is not a first system for most >people, but the modules seem to sell. The better ones are often very well >written, and some are open needed of expanded seeds vs adventures. But the >bad ones are horrid, and I have no idea about actual sale data. > See my other post for more on this :] Modules generally sold very poorly, until recently. But that was probably due partly to the drought of Adventure/Story info while they re-relaesed all their core books for the Third Edition of the game. Between those, and books liek Corp Download, which are sourcebooks rather than story-based books... It leaves the fans hungry for ANYTHING that has a story or adventure in it, I suppose. Though, IMO, the stories in both Corp Punishment and Brainscan are VERY cool and well done. It also has a bit to do with the amount of sales that FASA is doing with Shadowrun. There has beena HUGE rise in popularity and sales of SR since Third Ed was released, and for the first time, Shadowrun did what FASA never thought it would do: Make them more money than Battletech. And this is with battletech sales staying steady. >Additionally, anything involved in TSR/WOTC's RPGA system has a regular >series of adventures being written for them; anything from AD&D to star >wars, to shadowrun (Shadowrun even has a campaign setting in RPGA -- >Virtual Seattle). Admittedly, these are aimed at gaming/sf cons instead of >the mass market, but it is a cool idea. > We have a very severe drought of RPGA players. I've not been a member for years, as I just didn;t really do the conventions before, and these days, I'm lucky if I get ANY free time at one to check out the Exhibitors Hall, let alone go game myself :] (And keep in mind, I HAD an Exhibitors Badge at origins. I STILL never got to see the whole hall. :)) >Speaking of which, I have no idea what the professional relationships are >between SJG and TSR/WOTC, but has there been any consideration of >attempting to get IN into RPGA sanaction/run status (if its not already)? >It can't hurt the popularity. > Definately not. There are RPGA memebrs who are willing to try anything with that label on it. And any exposure is good exposure... (Well.... :)) Bull ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:19:32 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors > > >Put together a book of adventure seeds. This is done, sort of, in the > >Superiors line, but most of the seeds seem geared towards the laughline > >style of play. I'm not sure about that. I seem to remember that most of the angelic ones are fairly serious in tone, and most of the demonic ones are more humorous (but I think demons work much better as PCs in a humorous game so I don't see a problem there.) What I don't know is whether any of the plot seeds give anyone useful ideas or make readers want to jump up and run a game. If they don't, then basically, they're wasted space IMO. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:54:54 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Net Books Jennifer Campbell wrote: > > OTOH, Michael is one of the least androgynous of the Archangels -- > he hasn't used a female vessel in centuries, and even that was for > strictly utilarian reasons (the target audience would respond better > to a female than a male). In all of his writeups, Michael's > self-image has been strongly masculine... I mean, he's the > *original* Macho Man, the very first. If Michael has a gender-image > at all in his mind, he's a man. A *manly* man. It's how he is. I ran things a bit differently in my game. Michael predates *atoms*. He's[*] the first angel, God's very own made man. When he was created, God tapped him on the shoulder and said, "I'm going to make you a brother, and one day you're going to kill him for me," and then made Lucifer. He's the warrior, and where he passes the carcasses of the cruel and unrighteous lie broken and ruined. Often, he /seems/ masculine to humans, but that's a mistake caused by our cultural conditioning. Anyone who takes up arms in some sense partakes of his nature, and historically people have restricted the profession of arms to men. So when people see him, they correctly perceive his warrior nature, and incorrectly assume this makes him male. This doesn't bind Michael, though -- when Joan of Arc reported being inspired by angels to defend France, she claimed that God sent St. Michael to be her inspiration. It didn't matter to him that Joan was a illiterate teenage peasant girl; what mattered was that she had a spirit like his, one strong enough to defeat great armies. [**] [*] I used the word 'he' in the indefinite sense, because I couldn't make this flow smoothly otherwise. Please ignore the confusion this may cause. [**] Yes, this is mystical warrior bullshit, but this is a game about angels and demons playing superhero, so mystical warrior bullshit is golden. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:44:54 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Agr--(why is Khalid an Elohite again)--eed. Because they wouldn't let me change it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:42:09 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes In a message dated 7/25/00 6:24:10 PM, dorigen@hotmail.com writes: >And I may be the only one, but I really don't like the Laurence/Blandine >romance idea. I always pictured Blandine as still pining over Beleth and >Laurence as celibate, so that's two strikes. Besides, a soap opera with >angels is still a soap opera ... > Actually, this cements me *for* the Laurence/Blandine Courtly Love topic. It's actually classic courtly love. If you've read it, the Mandorallen (with the vo Ebors?) thing from the Belgariad is the truest to form example of courtly love I can think of in modern fantasy. The true and parfait knight, sworn to chastity, knowing that his true love has no regard for him because she clings to the memory of her fallen love... Elanor would approve, I think. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:51:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas J Howell Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Jo Hart wrote: > > I'm not sure about that. I seem to remember that most of the angelic ones > are fairly serious in tone, and most of the demonic ones are more humorous > (but I think demons work much better as PCs in a humorous game so I don't > see a problem there.) > > What I don't know is whether any of the plot seeds give anyone useful ideas > or make readers want to jump up and run a game. If they don't, then > basically, they're wasted space IMO. > I loved many of them. I ran the Hospital seed from L. Cast. for this year's Con (the hospital ended up being shut down, but a good time was had by all, including drugged sandwiches for the kiddies, a knife- wielding cook, overflowing toilets, and a nurse all tied up and made to look like a couch). I've also adapted some Superior seeds, too, like the one for Laurence (?) about the priest Balseraph who needs replacing. I increased the fun in that one by positing that the reason behind the demon's being there was that the future Antichrist was in the congregation (the demon served Fate, naturally). When the Angel of Necessary Violence came to assassinate the kid (a character which I took from the IN Collection, I recall), things got...interesting. It's the only time I've ever witnessed a gunfight during a church service, anyway... TJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:53:36 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract In a message dated 7/25/00 10:10:22 PM, cglasgow@hotmail.com writes: > >[To Be Continued] > >----------- > >So, whaddya think? Brain hurts... Must lie down. Very nice. Now all we need is to hook Lilith up with Dominic, and we're set. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas J Howell Subject: IN> More uses of seeds and adventures Oh, yes, I've also used the Michael (? - or maybe Laurence) plot seed where folks had to infiltrate a company and help a Soldier escape. Lots of fun with Vapulan rayguns and masquerading as Asmodean agents. I even ran the Fall of the Malakim/Final Trumpet series. That was a pain, especially since Fall never precisely tells you what happened (IMHO necessary for an investigation adventure). But it was fun when one of the players, actually, purposely killed the Holiest Man to continue the countdown. So I'd say for myself at least that the plot seeds and adventures have been very useful. They're great in a pinch when you want to play but you don't have a lot of time to come up with original material. TJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:09:11 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract At 10:53 AM -0400 7/26/00, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > >Brain hurts... Must lie down. > >Very nice. > >Now all we need is to hook Lilith up with Dominic, and we're set. That's too simple. Imagine... just *imagine...* the burning Need Dominic has to completely trust someone. A Lilim -- and Lilith -- would fairly drown in it, I imagine. And as a Seraph, Dominic could tell the Truth of Lilith's passion and trustworthiness to him. Of course, she'd remain a Princess and he an Archangel, and Freedom would forever mean she couldn't bind herself to the rules and ties he would demand, and Judgement would mean he could never cast caution to the wind and embrace his one love... Forget Courtly Love and the Musketeers as Archangels -- this positively rings of the love of D'artagnan and the Queen Mother in "The Man in the Iron Mask" or "Twenty Years Later." - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:09:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas J Howell Subject: IN> Adventures in books?? What about a format for any new books like the one Pinnacle uses for Deadlands stuff? i.e. details, new rules, some fiction, secrets for GMs to play with, AND an adventure (which, sadly, Pinnacle recently stopped). TJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner-Thornber Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors > I loved many of them. I ran the Hospital seed from L. Cast. for this > year's Con (the hospital ended up being shut down, but a good time > was had by all, including drugged sandwiches for the kiddies, a knife- > wielding cook, overflowing toilets, and a nurse all tied up and made > to look like a couch). Wow. Someone actually ran that seed? That's wiggy, because the feedback I received on it after it was published was that it wasn't so hot. Granted the feedback was exactly one data point, but hey... - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emily K. Dresner -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith The Parisian Asphalt Initiative - Paving France for a Better Tomorrow http://www.pave-france.org "I redeemed, not gave up my keen sense of fashion." - Daimon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:15:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Guy Royse Subject: IN> Amusing Campaign Premise My friend and I were discussing In Nomine the other day and he had an amusing idea for a campaign. As many of us are probably acutely aware, role-play games, D&D in particular, were and still are consider to be highly Satanic by some. Well, what if those people were right and RPGs actually *are* demonic. Demonic in the In Nomine sense. Maybe they're a plot by Kronos to draw people to their Fate or something. Maybe Asmodeous really is the Demon Prince of "the Game". Who knows. The players could be Angels or Soldiers trying to discourage people from playing by promoting other activities like sports and stamp collection. Or they could be Demons running game stores and conventions, encouraging people to play, definding their stores from Malikim, and scoffing at those who say gaming is Satanic. I pesonally thing this idea would be good for a short humorous campaign. What a meta-joke. I think that maybe my friend is a Soldier of Dark Humor. Comments? Guy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:23:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas J Howell Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Emily Dresner-Thornber wrote: > > Wow. Someone actually ran that seed? That's wiggy, because the feedback > I received on it after it was published was that it wasn't so hot. > Granted the feedback was exactly one data point, but hey... > Yeah, it was a lot of fun. There were 7 people playing, so I made three demons, three angels, and one a demonic member of the accreditation board. The players had a lot of fun scheming against each other, and I threw in a Shedite of Factions as a plot mover. TJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:57:22 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors > Wow. Someone actually ran that seed? That's wiggy, because the feedback > I received on it after it was published was that it wasn't so hot. > Granted the feedback was exactly one data point, but hey... I haven't run the seed -- can't fit too many into my game, although I like 'em -- but this one looked *really* tempting. I enjoyed reading it, and if I *did* run a seed, this one would be near the top of my list. > Emily K. Dresner -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:45:06 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors In a message dated 7/26/00 7:56:15 AM Central Daylight Time, bull@echostation.com writes: << Bull -- Malakim of Shooting Pop Out Your Nose >> Hey, if you are a Malakite of Creation, you can use pop shooting out of your nose as a weapon!!! Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:48:14 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution At 5:31 AM +0000 7/26/00, Jo Hart wrote: >> >>You know, sometimes it makes sense to go with your >>first notion, because it really is the one that >>will work best, rather than trying to be clever >>about it. There are plenty of superiors already who >>really belong to the 'wrong' choir/band for their >>Word. >Agr--(why is Khalid an Elohite again)--eed. >I'd go with a Shedite unless the backstory for some >other demon was >*really* pressing. >- -- >Eric Alfred Burns - Both of you have good points, of course. However, my major problem was that I wasn't _thinking_ about the writeup, just writing it. Which is probably why I wasn't liking the results. The suggestion to think about other Bands was a literal eye-opener, even if I calmed down later. :) I might or might not keep this Prince I'm working on a Shedite, but at least I'll have a reason for my decision now... Moe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:11:43 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution At 9:53 AM -0700 7/26/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:48:14 -0400 >From: Whistling in the Dark >Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution > > >Both of you have good points, of course. However, my >major problem was that I wasn't _thinking_ about the >writeup, just writing it. Which is probably why I >wasn't liking the results. The suggestion to think >about other Bands was a literal eye-opener, even if I >calmed down later. :) > >I might or might not keep this Prince I'm working on a >Shedite, but at least I'll have a reason for my >decision now... >Moe Here's a potential thought that hit me.... Said Prince could be a Shedite... but what if he was a Shedite of *Andrealphus?* And either in competition for or the holder of "the Word of Polluting One's Body In Baseness." (This works equally well for a Fleurity Servitor.) Lucifer giving him a *much* bigger Word, and a Principality, would certainly rock things a bit. And we know Lucifer likes to rock things a bit... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:31:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Campbell Subject: Re: IN> Net book ideas -- my votes And Larry's perfectly content to pine and write bad poetry. . . Enter the meddling friends and allies. And their Servitors. . . Hee hee. - --- MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > The true and parfait knight, sworn to chastity, > knowing that his true love > has no regard for him because she clings to the > memory of her fallen love... > Elanor would approve, I think. ===== "The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - -William Clayton ICQ UIN: 14514495 AIM: Pepper2540 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:20:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Demon of Pollution On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > Agr--(why is Khalid an Elohite again)--eed. > > Because they wouldn't let me change it. At least you did get to throw in a paragraph suggesting a way that Khalid could be changed to a Malakite or other choir... (in the playtest at least - - haven't ordered S3 just yet). Hopefully that'll inspire some people to do so. :) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "When nothing's funny, it gets easy to laugh at the drop of a hat - or a bomb." -- Devo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:22:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Dead Superiors On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Emily Dresner-Thornber wrote: > > > I loved many of them. I ran the Hospital seed from L. Cast. for this > > year's Con (the hospital ended up being shut down, but a good time > > was had by all, including drugged sandwiches for the kiddies, a knife- > > wielding cook, overflowing toilets, and a nurse all tied up and made > > to look like a couch). > > Wow. Someone actually ran that seed? That's wiggy, because the feedback > I received on it after it was published was that it wasn't so hot. > Granted the feedback was exactly one data point, but hey... I loved that seed! I haven't had a chance to run it yet, but it *IS* on my list of definites (along w/A Very Nybbas Xmas and Too Too Solid Flesh). - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "I am the greatest man in the world; indeed I am SO great that I can afford great generosity: I encourage all others to adopt the DELUSION that they are as great as I. If they truly thought that they were themselves the greatest, they too would be as generous; and then we would all be able to HUMOR each other, in peace, for none would feel threatened by the now-harmless delusions of everyone else." -- Philo Drummond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:19:05 PDT From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract >From: Whistling in the Dark >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >CC: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract >Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:09:11 -0400 > >At 10:53 AM -0400 7/26/00, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >> >>Brain hurts... Must lie down. >> >>Very nice. >> >>Now all we need is to hook Lilith up with Dominic, and we're set. > >That's too simple. > >Imagine... just *imagine...* the burning Need Dominic has to >completely trust someone. > >A Lilim -- and Lilith -- would fairly drown in it, I imagine. "Dominic's darkest secret, to him, is that he knows himself fallible. Despite himself, he has grieved and wished to spare angels he sentenced. Despite himself, he has favored some of his Servitors in the past, and it is rare of them to live up to his standards forever. Even the most perfect have been soul-killed, abandoning him in that way. He has shielded himself so constantly, lest any Servitor discover his biases and weaknesses, that his cloak has become a relic. (Liber Reliquarum, p. 93) His need for perfect loyalty is so great that if he ever permitted a Lilim to read it, she might drown within his eyes." - -- Superiors 1, in the 'Beneath The Cloak' sidebar on page 43. - -- Chuckg ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:19:02 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Beleth and Blandine's relationship >Maybe I've been over-exposed to WAFFy shoujo ai stuff, but I think >it would be really sweet to have Beleth and Blandine get back >together. Personally my belief on Beleth and Blandine's relationship is that they are never going to get back together. Why? Well obvious reasons aside this is how I play them IMC. Beleth is one of the few Princes who enjoys being the villianess in the fairy tale, the little embodiment of the bad guy, boogeyman. She's the person who promotes (along with Nybbas) villianesses as sexy, anti-heroes, and the fact that Freddy Kruegar and Jason (are these guys Ethereals or demons working for her?) are cool. Whenever someone in a movie is duplicated by a disturbed teen etc, that's Beleth. Okay we knew this (also that she's despair, inactitude, and addiction to pain and suffering) Beleth as a Djinn has the need to be loved as much as anyone but cares nothing for Blandine. She misses the feeling she had but it her feelings are warped and perverted. I fully believe that Beleth if she could capture Blandine would inflict unforgettable agonies on her trying to get her to love her...just like any Djinn attuned. Love can overcome betrayal but it can also become hate. Blandine has nothing that would make her redeem because her love for Blandine remaining is entirely selfish. Blandine we know (whoever has Superiors 3) the lonely chick in the tower. Good, virtuous, most loyal to humanity. She's the unicorn. Blandine is living in a fantasy world if she believes anything remains of the Beleth that she knew. She has dreamt of IMHO of Beleth redeeming in ten thousand ways and wants dearly for it to be true...however it's not and even if Beleth did redeem (and I sincerely doubt it's possible) it would NOT go back to the way Blandine wants it. She needs to face I'm afraid reality that the angel she was attuned to is fallen and the love they had can never be recovered. She might (horror of horrors) fall in love with a new Beleth but the old love is gone... Let it die because come Armageddon it will be Beleth and Blandine in a death fight and I hope one is destrtoyed by the other....so a fitting end may be for this Winter's tale. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:14:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Majordomo results: Re: Majordomo results: Majordomo results (Just send to: Majordomo@lists.io.com With i n f o in_nomine-l in the body of the message. Without the spaces, mind. >[Last updated on: Fri Jul 21 18:10:16 2000] >Welcome to the IN NOMINE List. I hope you'll find the following an >informative introduction to the list. > >Elizabeth McCoy >IN NOMINE List Manager >Archangel of Archives, Djinn Princess of Nitpicking/List Admin/Line Editing. > > ========== > > > IN NOMINE List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) > >7/21/2000, v0.4.02 > > >How does the list work? > > and its digest sister, , are > lists managed by 'Majordomo,' which is a program that manages > *many* mailing lists and it resides at IO.COM. There are two > types of posts (i.e., email messages) one can compose and send: > 1) administrative requests; and, 2) posting a message to the > list. > > 1. Administrative requests are made to > (or to ) with the 'command > request' put into the *body* of the email -- *not* the *subject > header*, but the *body* of the message. Administrative command > requests usually follow the pattern of: > > command list_name-l my@email.address > > So, e.g., if I, , were to switch from the list > to the digest, I would send a message to majordomo at > and the commands in the main body of > the email would be: > > unsubscribe in_nomine-l arcangel@io.com > subscribe in_nomine-digest arcangel@io.com > > It's important to type out YOUR email address, otherwise, > Majordomo will use the one you are emailing from, which might > not be the right one (some systems send out your email with an > expanded address which doesn't work in reply, e.g., IO.COM used > to send out email as from <[name]@news.io.com> -- very > annoying and not the right reply address). > > Send Majordomo a message with 'help' in the *body* and it will > send you back a list of all the command requests available. > > > 2. Messages to the List: They should be sent to > > > > even if you're on the digest plan! Be careful about how your > email program does replies. Some pick up or > as the reply address -- that's wrong. > > And if you're getting the digest, you'll have to manually type > in an appropriate subject header each time, otherwise your reply > will have as the subject -- not very > informative. > > >What is the purpose of the IN NOMINE List? > > Good PR. Really. It is a free service of Steve Jackson Games to > its online customers who are fans of IN NOMINE (just like our > website). It allows the fans to have relatively quick response and > support from official SJ Games NetReps. SJ Games 'owns' the list > and 'manages' it and 'moderates' it. > > >What do you mean, 'moderates' it? Are my constitutional rights to >free speech being impinged here? > > You got it. Actually, free speech does not exist in a private > forum such as this; just like you can't walk into a classroom or > boardroom and just say what ever you want no matter how disruptive. > Here's a soapbox and there's the corner of 1st and Main -- you > have all the free speech you want there, not here. For those who've > ever participated in a busy *un*moderated online forum, you'll > appreciate the moderation here. Generally, there isn't much that's > off limits. > > >So, what *is* off limits? > > Being off-topic. People signed up to discuss IN NOMINE, not > someone's opinion of today's hot topics. > > Sharing with us the latest joke list, even if religious in nature, > is also a no-no. Now, if it deals with angels and demons, then, > yes, it *is* on topic. > > Flaming. That's 'netspeak' for personal attacks. This is > absolutely forbidden and will get you kicked off the list faster > than an Ofanite on speed. You may criticize the *content* of > another person's posts (and adult criticism is more than > name-calling the content of another person's post -- we don't > simply say 'that's stupid!' -- we give reasons why we think that, > in our opinion, that's not so clever). But you may never call > another person 'stupid' or talk about what character defects they > may have that may have led them to what you think is such a wrong > idea. The character defects of their relatives is also off limits. > > If a flamewar (2+ people flaming) erupts, the List Admin may well > decide to simply kick everyone involved off, no matter who started > it! So don't get involved. > > (Flaming White Wolf is also a sure way to get into a non-useful > thread. Please don't do it. Also, don't flame other people's > religions. There are many different faiths on this list, including > some you may think of as 'fringe' or even 'cult.') > > Vulgarities. Vulgarity that is hard-core, gratuitous, inflammatory, > immature, etc... will be stomped on, hard. If you don't know the > difference, better to not use it at all. > > "I hate IN NOMINE" posts. Everyone is free to criticize any aspect > of the game, but if you hate it, get off the list -- it's for the > *fans* of IN NOMINE, not for troublemakers. And if you're having > trouble getting unsubscribed, the List Manager will be happy to do > it for you. > > Role-playing. Funny how that's not allowed, eh? But this is a > List for *discussion* of the game, not role-playing it. Taking on > an IN NOMINE character for a few posts is fine to help illustrate > that personality type. But extended role-playing is forbidden, > especially when going back and forth between just two or a few > people. > > What Good IN NOMINE Music Would Be / IN NOMINE Movie Casting. > Both of these topics ("Hey, what would be good music for me to > play?" and "What actor would you have play [various Superiors]?") > have been done to death. If you are interested in these topics, > you may ask for suggestions *In private email* and when you have > the results, *post the URL*. Do not post the actual results. > > Anything non-ASCII. There are no real, universal email standards > and many people are still operating on straight ASCII email systems. > So, no MIME, HTML, binhex, Base 64, uuencoded, multi-part, > file-attachment, proprietary files, binaries, executable files, > pictures, bitmaps, HTML, PGP, ROTC-13, encrypted, Geekcoded, > bearcoded, x-coded anything, or HTML. Just the text in normal > typewriter keyboard letters and symbols in unscrambled, 7-bit English. > Anything else can be put up on your web page and you can point us > to it. NOTE! Microsoft products (and maybe Netscape) will send HTML > BY DEFAULT! You MUST configure your emailer to send plain ascii text > by default, to the list. The List Administrator will be happy to > help you with this. (Hint: check your Preferences.) > > Spam. > > >What is 'spam'? > > Spiced ham by Hormel (tm). > > It is also useless and/or annoying text which Should Not Have Been. > This includes repetitive information such as: > > Needlessly requoting the message you are replying to. Never, > ever, requote the message's Internet pathway header or its .sig > (the composer's clever message footer) -- unless you are > commenting on what's in there, in which case, you're probably > off-topic anyway. *SNIP* (i.e., *delete*) the parts of the > message you are requoting which are not necessary for the point > you are making in your new message. At most, you only need to > quote a few lines from anyone's post in order to add your own > comments. The List Admin can give you tips, if you need them. > > A tagline in your .sig that is too long or never changes (even a > Dilbert quote stops being funny after the tenth reading -- let > alone the hundredth). A message footer should really not be > more than four lines. If you want to say something about > yourself, put in a one-line teaser and then point us to your web > page where you can indulge our desire to know everything about > you. Take away those borders, we already know that the info > following your closing salutation is the footer. > > > Spam also includes advertisements that have nothing to do with IN > NOMINE. I don't care how worthy the cause, you'll have to find > some other venue to advertise your business or charity or political > cause (even if it has something to do with Internet freedom). This > is a sure-fire boot off the list *and* I'll track down your ISP and > tell them you spammed the list. Be warned. > > If there are any announcements about viruses or Internet stuff or > IO.COM stuff, your List Manager *alone* will make the announcement > after checking the validity of the announcement. Most of those > warnings passed on by ordinary folks are *wrong*. Wrong, wrong, > wrong. Don't fall for it. Any valid warning will have a website > where you can check the validity of the announcement. Anything > that says, 'pass it on' is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. No valid > Net authority would ever create a message like that. Kill it where > it stands. If you're not sure, send it to the List Manager first, > and if deemed worthy, it will be sent to the list. > (If I see anything regarding the "Good Times Virus"... It's a fraud. > If I'm the first person to tell you about it, memorize this now: > There is no such thing.) > > As a side note, spam includes quoting the *WHOLE ARTICLE* and > doing a 1-3 line reply that is usually not much more than "Me too" > or "I like that." Fine. Terrific. Send that in email. Learn to clip > your posts, or don't post. (This is something the digest people > will really be annoyed by, you see -- they've already *gotten* the > original. They don't need the whole thing *again*.) > > >So, where can I say or do the things I want to do but are not allowed >on the List? > > Private email -- flame away there, although, you might start > breaking telecommunication harassment laws if you do -- be warned. > Side conversations involving only a few people are most appropriate > in private email. > > The unmoderated Usenet newsgroups (but be warned, if you abuse > their protocols, even though they are unmoderated and much more lax > than the List, they'll make your life a living Hell). > > PBEM (Play By EMail) games and MUDS/MUSHES (see our website for > links) are places where you can get all the online IN NOMINE > role-playing you want. > > Some things, like "Casting Calls" or "Music" threads, are not > forbidden on the Pyramid message board. Check out > for subscription information. > > Create your own lists: , , > , etc.... It'll be your dime -- do > whatever you want there. > > >Who's who on the List? > > Elizabeth McCoy, IN NOMINE Line Editor, > IN NOMINE List Manager and Owner. > . > (I do most of my posting from emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, but everything > to "arcangel" gets forwarded.) > > John Karakash, IN NOMINE NetRep. > > Various IN NOMINE Authors. Rather than listing them here, you can > find out their names by first visiting SJ Games' official IN NOMINE > website at > > > Iolanthe McCoy, the Impudite Princess of Cute -- also known as > Elizabeth's baby daughter. (2/17/2000) She is responsible for > her mother's typos, often, as she sleeps (or doesn't sleep) on > her mother's chest during computer time. > > >How do we get questions answered officially? > > Post 'em to the List. Please do not email John or Beth or an author > privately. It is against SJ Games' policy for staffers or NetReps > to respond to private questions about the game -- otherwise, that > is what we would be doing all day long, and no other work would get > done. However, we are reasonable people -- if you're a GM and your > players are on the list and a public question would spoil things -- > go ahead and email us. Just don't take advantage of it, please. > > Never bother Steve Jackson about it! Though he revels in positive > email, he is very, very busy. Besides, he will forward any email > questions about IN NOMINE to John and Beth anyway, so save some > electrons and just post it on the list. If *we* can't answer it, > *then* we'll ask SJ about it. We'll pass on to SJ whatever you may > be whinin... um, politely asking with regard to the future of IN > NOMINE. Note that many times the answer will be, "You're not cleared > for that information." This is _especially_ true of questions like, > "When's the next book coming out?" > > Of course, there are some other things that should be emailed > privately -- e.g., requests or questions or praises that don't > belong on the list. But if it's just a question about the game > world or mechanics, post only to the list, please. (We also > officially support IN NOMINE publicly on the Usenet newsgroup > .) > > Also, we hope that you please understand that there are some > questions for which we have no answers. Sometimes an answer > requires making a new rule for the game, and we don't want to do > that lightly and cause unbalancing mechanics later on. Sometimes > you'll be asking about details of the game world which have not > been decided upon, yet, and won't be until the authors assigned to > that question completes their work. Sometimes the answer is that > there _is_ no answer, and the GM _must_ decide that detail for him > or herself! (This is called "Canon Doubt and Uncertainty," or CDaU > for short.) > > In such cases, we might give you a rule of thumb, a temporary > patch, or tell you to go with whatever you like 'cause we just > don't know right now. Thank-you for your patience in this regard. > > And, as always, if you're the GM and you don't like our ruling, do > whatever you like without guilt -- in fact, the other people on the > list will probably pipe in with a lot of useful alternatives. We > don't have any IN NOMINE police. > > >Are answers from the NetRep *official*? > > Definitely yes. Moreover, John will carefully note when an answer > he gives is not official, but just his opinion or a temporary > ruling until the question is resolved by his Superiors. > > >And just who are his Superiors? > > The Line Editor (Beth), the Managing Editor (Alain Dawson), the > Superior (we won't say if he's an Archangel or Demon Prince) of > Gaming, Steve Jackson, himself. > > >I'm shy... I'm afraid to ask something publicly and look silly -- what >should I do? > > Well, realistically, first do what you can to avoid looking silly. > If you have a question, first read the official Errata and FAQ for > IN NOMINE -- maybe someone asked your question already. > > (and follow the links). > > The next trick is to check the digests (also findable via the > links from the URL above). If you have Netscape, pick a keyword > and do a "Find" though those. > > If it's not there, then go ahead and ask. It's not a silly > question to you, so who gives a flaming feather what other people > think! If someone does mock you, they'll be booted from the list > under the 'no flame' rule above. So, you'll be doing us a favor by > forcing the Servitors of Kobal out into the open where we can deal > with them. > > >What's the policy on copyright? > > U.S. law states that what you write is automatically copyrighted by > you. No one can copy it or redistribute it (and web-publishing and > list-posting *is* redistribution) without your permission (with the > exception of a few, restrictive 'fair use' cases). > > However, sending your email to a mailing list owned by SJ Games, > which you know will re-copy it and send it out to over 300 > subscribers sort of waters down your copyright protection -- but it > does not eradicate it. > > SJ Games keeps an archive of the digest on its website. Posting to > the list assumes that's OK with you -- if it isn't, get off the > list. > > You still own the copyright to what you wrote (your Angel of Death > is still your own). But SJ Games has the rights (since you sent it > to a SJ Games' owned list) to make it available in its compiled > form (also known as Compilation Copyright). The messages on the > list and its compilation form at the SJ Games website may not be > reproduced by any one for any reason (except for personal use only > -- you may not put them up on your own website or redistribute them > without permission). > > SJ Games also supports and maintains the IN NOMINE Collection (or > INC for short). Posts to the list, unless you *clearly state* > otherwise in the post, will be considered for inclusion in the > INC by its maintainer du jour. Posting to the list automatically > gives the maintainer(s) of the INC the right to incorporate that > post. If you do not *want* this to happen, clearly state this > somewhere in your post. If you find something in the INC that > you don't want there, ask that it be removed, and it will be. (Be > kind -- the maintainers of the INC are volunteers, unpaid, who > have lives. If it's not down in a few days, talk to the List > Administrator.) For best effect, state that you give permission > to the INC maintainers to consider the material for inclusion. > > SJ Games owns the rights to the English version of IN NOMINE -- the > French Publishers the French version, the German Publishers the > German version, etc.... Distribution of translations of any > copyrighted text into any language is copyright violation. Don't > do it. > > You may compile large copies of the text for your own personal use > if you are doing so from the books *you* purchased. If you do so > from a friend's copy, you both are doing something illegal. If you > sell or give away your books, you must destroy your copies and or > compilations. Period. > > Distributing any copyrighted material (and web publishing or > List-posting counts as distributing) is illegal. Period. Short > quotes for the sake of comment or questions are OK -- that's > covered by fair use exceptions. But you must acknowledge the > quoted text as someone else's copyright. > > If the compilation you produce is a Great Idea, show it to us (the > Line Editor) privately, we *may* put it, with your permission, on > our website to share with everyone. We're not unreasonable. We > don't want to hide our work or your work (at times), just protect > our right to our copyrights; and our right to profit from our > copyrights. > > SJ Games will protect its copyright using the full scope and power > of the law. We have and we will. Do not test us on this, you will > lose. Do I sound harsh? Sorry, I have to. Copyright not protected > is copyright lost which is money lost which is our livelihood lost. > Empty stomachs make for mean litigators. > > >Hey, did you steal my idea? > > Absolutely not. Just because we both came up with Azrael, Angel of > Death doesn't mean we stole it from you. We both dipped into the > same prior resource. And if you look at our Azrael, you'll see > it's a different character, though their powers might seem -- > logically enough with both being angels of Death -- similar. > (Actually, we don't have any plans for an Angel of Death, yet, and > maybe never will.) > > When we see someone's work we like, we make an offer to buy it from > them, or else, we just don't use it. However, we can't let > ourselves be restrained from doing an Angel of X just because a fan > also did an Angel of X. Remember that the IN NOMINE copyright, > which includes all derivative works (even IN NOMINE characters), > belongs to SJ Games. Does that mean that we own your Angel of X > that you wrote? No. Does that mean we could have told you "You > may not publish (including web and list publishing) any IN NOMINE > characters without our permission"? Oh, yes. We could have. But > we don't 'cause that's just plain stupid to do so in this industry. > > However, if we get enough people annoying us and claiming that > we're stealing their IN NOMINE ideas (which we ain't), we just may > have to stop allowing fan-created publication of IN NOMINE-derived > copyrighted material. If you're afraid that we'll steal your > ideas, keep them to yourselves -- you don't have a right to publish > them -- we do. We allow you to publish and share your creations > 'cause we're Nice Guys. Don't make us turn and become like those > Grumpy Guys. > > >I'd like to write IN NOMINE stuff for SJ Games, how do I go about it? > > Read the IN NOMINE Writers' Guidelines on the website. > It basically boils down to: > > 1. If you can't write grammatically correct English (with no > misspellings), forget it. Period. If you can't follow the > Writers' Guidelines correctly, forget it. Period. (Sorry, but > there are plenty of good writers who can write technically well > and follow instructions -- we'll go with them, instead.) > > 2. If you're new to writing, submit an article to Pyramid magazine > first (which means reading the Pyramid Writers' Guidelines). If > you're an established writer, submit your resume with what areas > you'd like to write about. In either case, follow the Guidelines > in how to go about this, or else you'll be screaming "I don't know > how to follow directions!" People who do not follow the directions > will be ignored, at best, by the Line Editor. > > 2a. If you want some private help with something, I, arcangel@io.com, > have been known to edit people's stuff prior to official submission. > I do this on my own time, and I may be busy with other things. > Send me some private email first, and we can talk. > > 3. Know your IN NOMINE, including its mood and atmosphere. It's > a difficult line to walk in trying to add new stuff to the IN > NOMINE universe without going off in the wrong directions. Some > people get it, some don't. C'est la Symphonie. > > 4. Know your IN NOMINE plurals and terminology. There is a > Stylesheet in the Writer's Guidelines. > > >Hey, all of a sudden, I'm not subscribed anymore (or, my subscription >to the list was changed to the digest)... what gives? > > Argh. Your email account is the problem. Every piece of email > that gets bounced back to Majordomo gets bounced to me, the owner > of the list. And *every* *single* *day* there is *at* *least* > *one* account on the subscription list that 'goes bad'. That means > about 30 bounced emails a day into my email box for each bad > account to which mail is undeliverable. > > I'm sorry, but I can't cope with hundreds of bounced emails waiting > for your account to return to normal. I immediately unsubscribe > any account which is undeliverable. If your email account is > offline for whatever reason, and your provider isn't storing > messages for you, but is returning them, more than likely, you've > been unsubscribed and will have to resubscribe yourself when your > email account is returned to normal. You can check out the digest > archive at the website to see what you missed. > > CompuServe and AOL members (and possibly other types of accounts) > have email boxes which can get full (usually a 100 email limit). > CS and AOL will then return email. In this case, I MAY switch you > to the digest version so that this can hopefully be avoided in the > future. If you have a limit to pieces of email your email box can > hold, then you *should* be on the digest version of any list or > risk filling your email box with just a day's absence from your > computer. > > >Why don't my messages appear on the list? > > You're not subscribed to at least one of: in_nomine-l, in_nomine-digest, > or in_nomine_posters-l. We did this to reduce the amount of spam -- > _only_ a subscriber to one of those lists can post. If you have multiple > email accounts, then subscribe the ones that you post from to the > in_nomine_posters-l. > Send a message to majordomo at and the > command in the main body of the email would be: > > subscribe in_nomine_posters-l your@address.here > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1734 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.