From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jul 30 17:10:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01255 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:10:37 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id RAA01380 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:09:37 -0500 Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:09:37 -0500 Message-Id: <200007302209.RAA01380@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1744 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, July 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1744 In this digest: Re: IN> Words in Celestial vs Demonic Re: IN> The Penitent Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror IN> Playing Minor Superiors IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror Zadkiel the Demoness (was Re: IN> Playing Minor Superiors) Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Re: IN> Celestial Poisons Re: IN> Celestial Poisons Re: IN> Celestial Poisons Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale... Re: IN> Playing Minor Superiors Re: IN> Updating the INC: July 27, 2000 IN> Canonical Questions? Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror IN> Licence to Smite ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jul 2000 17:31:06 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Words in Celestial vs Demonic On Sat, 29 July 2000, "Charles Glasgow" wrote: > Wouldn't that make it real easy to ID the Superiors of enemy Servitors (and > via them, enemy politics) just by hiding otu and trying to catch a glimpse > of them in Celestial form? Yes. So? It's a cold war, and such thing as appearing in celform are discouraged. Why not have pseudo-mechanics reflect this? > How does it work on Free Lilim temporarily in service to etc.? Beats me. I don't run demon games. :) Okay, here's a serious answer: Free Lilim, in service to Geas. No, really. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:02:06 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> The Penitent >A fascinating story, and a compelling character. Well, thank you kindly >I fear that my group would use the Penitent as a deus ex >machina, and will probably not use him in his current format. Well, there are ways around that. Frex, let them figure out the Penitent's secret, and then have a demon threaten to do the same. Or, note that the Penitent is most likely an Ofanite (if Demogorgon) or a Kyrio (if Genubath). In either case, s/he would move around a lot, making it difficult for PCs to _rely_ on intervention... >As soon as I figure out something for him to *do,* I'll post the >results... Will watch with interest. Thanks! Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:02:21 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror I liked this quite a bit. Very appropriate, both for Band and Superior. Minor quibble: you said that Karypti would leave true innocents alone. I suspect that his standard for "true" innocence would be set so high that few above the age of six could readily qualify. ...he'd be a big supporter of, mm, family values, wouldn't he? I mean, anyone who knows a thing about schlock horror, knows that pre- or extra-marital sex is just as lethal as robbing an orphanage or shooting a cop. Maybe more so; the really evil characters are usually the last ones to be killed. I imagine that, by following someone around for a while, he could almost always come up with _something_. "There -- he stiffed the waitress on the tip. Let's show him what being 'stiffed' *really* means! Ah Hah Hah Ha!" Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:21:15 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Playing Minor Superiors Well, one way to make Zadkiel more interesting, of course, is... to have her Fall. [rummage, rummage...] Ah. Here's an updated version of the "Fallen Zadkiel" that I posted to the list last year. (For those of you who came late, we had a spasm of Fallen Archangels and Redeemed Princes on the list last summer and autumn; some of them were very interesting indeed.) I actually ended up using this Princess in my campaign; the Word and some of the attunements got into my head and wouldn't leave me alone. Since I didn't want to violate canon to the point of having an Archangel Fall, I made my campaign version a demoness who had climbed up from the ranks to become a minor (but rising) Superior. If you want to play it this way, feel free; a Habbalite, Balseraph, or Impudite could run this Word just as well, I should think. Comments welcome, as ever. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:21:40 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Zadkiel, Demon Princess of Codependence "The World is foolish and wicked and weak. We must protect it, from itself if need be." How'd she fall? Heaven knows, but I don't. Did something break that big warm Cherubic heart? Or did she just come to take her Word all too seriously, seeking to protect her charges even when Protection wasn't really what they needed? However it happened, Fall she did, and now she's one of the Djinn. And while she still seems nice enough at first glance, in fact she's scary even by Djinnish standards. Asmodeus is cynical, Beleth is brooding... but Zadkiel *smiles*. She still has a deep understanding of human frailty. But now she wants, not just to protect that frailty, but to preserve it. All the flaws and follies of humanity come under her new Word: where before she would seek to protect the sinner, now she guards the sin. (Is she mad as any Habbalite, or does that too-warm smile hide the bitter and broken heart of a typical Djinn? You go ask her, I don't care to, thanks) Falling hasn't changed her external appearance much. She still manifests as a warm, maternal figure with soft features and bright, understanding eyes. _Very_ understanding eyes. No matter what evil you've done, what horrors you may have committed, Zadkiel wants you to know that she's there for you. Stolen from your business? It's Zadkiel who'll find a way to help you cook the books to get away with it. Got a drug habit? Fleurity gets you hooked, but it's Zadkiel who will find a hundred ways for you to lie and steal to get that next fix. Pedophile, serial killer, member of an ethnic-cleansing death squad? She knows you can't help yourself... it's your so-called victims' fault, really... and she'll help you find a way to escape retribution, human or divine. (Of course, the people Zadkiel "helps" tend to end up in Hell, eventually. But that's okay, too. She has been building a _very special_ Principality on the outskirts of Shal-Mari...) "Codependence" is a new Word, and when Lucifer granted it to the fallen Cherub, many demons thought it might be some sort of odd joke. It isn't. Zadkiel is a new Princess, but her Word is a powerful one; everyone who tolerates human wickedness for some bad reason feeds her. Does a bleeding-heart liberal campaign for the release of an unquestionably guilty killer who has become a poster child against the death penalty? Zadkiel is served. Does a conservative politician oppose much-needed safety and environmental legislation, because corporate sponsors are contributing to his campaign? Why, that serves Zadkiel, too. Zadkiel also seeks to foster codependent relations between humans. As an Archangel, she worked closely with Yves and Novalis to encourage humans to help and protect each other. Now, she works closely with Andrealphus, Fleurity, and the other Princes of self-indulgence to help humans protect each others' weaknesses and sins. More conservative demons may shake their heads -- what kind of Word is this for a Superior? -- but Zadkiel, formerly a rather conservative Archangel, has turned into a thoroughly modern and up-to-date Demon Princess, and her Word is giving her plenty of room to grow. Already she has surpassed several of the minor Princes, and her power is still increasing. This age of the world, with its complications, rationalizations, and excuses, is a good time for her. If nothing intervenes, she'll soon be a major Princess, perhaps even more powerful than she was as an Archangel. Dissonance Demons of Zadkiel are charged with the protection and encouragement of human wickedness and folly. It is dissonant for these demons to allow a human to be reformed, redeemed, or even seriously distracted from the path of evil. Band Attunements Balseraphs -- Balseraphs of Zadkiel add their Ethereal Forces to their resonance roll when trying to make someone believe something that will hurt themselves or others. "Of course you don't have a problem. You can quit any time you want to!" Djinn -- The ultimate codependents, Zadkiel's Djinn must always choose one human to whom they are attuned as their Charge. Their check digit is always assumed to be 6 when using their resonance on their Charge. Calabim -- Calabim of Codependence double the check digit of their resonance when attacking any person or thing that seeks to redeem or reform a sinner or correct an evil. They are frequently tasked with sabotaging drug rehab clinics, destroying evidence, and the like. Habbalah -- Zadkiel's Habbalah know those who are in emotional pain, especially those who will hurt themselves or others. They also know how to point out the most destructive possible avenues for releasing these emotions. A successful roll will cause the subject, not only to feel the emotions inflicted by the Habbalite, but to follow the demon's instructions in discharging his emotions for minutes equal to the check digit. (This attunement only works if the subject already felt the emotion, at least a little, before the resonance was applied. The Habbalite could use its resonance to create the emotion, of course, but this would require another roll) Note that "destructive" does not always mean "violent"; making a human fall obsessively in love with just the wrong person can be far more destructive than any act of anger or hatred. Lilim -- Like Lilim of Fate, these demons can see Discord (or those human personality traits that resemble discord) in the eyes of others. They regenerate 1 essence whenever they convince (or Geas) a human to do something that will hurt himself or others. Zadkiel encourages her Lilim to use geases to bind humans to each other in dysfunctional and destructive ways. Shedim -- Shedim of Codependence corrupt their hosts in the usual manner, but generate a point of Essence for every evil act they make their hosts commit. Each day, they can generate Essence equal to their celestial forces in this manner. Impudites -- Impudites of Codependence are the friends you don't need. With a touch and a successful Perception roll, they can tell a subject's moral weaknesses... from minor failings on a 1, to his greatest flaw on a 6. They add their ethereal forces to any Fast-Talk, Lie, or Seduction skill roll that plays on or encourages any such failing (if they don't have those skills, then they default to the number of their ethereal forces when trying this). Servitor Attunements I'm OK, You're OK -- Grants the target complete moral certainty as to his own mental health and sincerity the uprightness of his character, and the righteousness of his cause. Thus an addict would become sure that he was healthy, a criminal would be sure that society made him do it, etc. Can be resisted with a Will roll (though the subject may not always want to resist, of course). Lasts for hours equal to the check digit, and the demon must touch the target. A Note From the Doctor -- With a successful Will roll, the demon can create a highly plausible excuse or explanation for one incident or one action committed by the subject. Treat this like a Balseraph's resonance, except that it "sticks" to the subject and lasts for days equal to the check digit. The excuse will either show that the subject was not at fault for his action or, if this is not possible, will sharply diminish his culpability. With an expenditure of an additional 1 to 3 essence, the demon can also create physical evidence to support the excuse... 1 essence might produce bruises on the subject to show that she poisoned her husband in self defence, while 3 essence would produce a lengthy criminal file on the husband and a bloody cudgel in his briefcase. The evidence will disappear when the resonance expires. (Note that this Attunement is intended for use in protecting humans from the consequences of their actions. Demons who use it to cover up their own mistakes will find that it doesn't work on Zadkiel herself, nor on demons of the Game.) Distinctions Knight of Protection from Interference -- A Knight can sense whenever someone is trying to reform a sinner, redeem a demon, help an addict, or is otherwise seeking to fight evil and moral weakness. Check vs. the demon's perception plus celestial forces. The check digit indicates how many tens of yards the demons can sense, plus how specific the sense will be (from "someone in this room is trying to help fight violence" to "that guy right there is a an experienced church worker running a program to get troubled youth out of gangs and into jobs") Captain of Codependence -- With a successful Perception roll on a subject, a Captain discovers the person or institution in the subject's life who can best help the subject maintain or expand a particular sin, addiction, or bad habit. The demon should have some idea what the subject's bad habits are before using this attunement, or he may not be able to make sense of the answer he gets. This attunement is handy for matching alcoholics with drinking buddies, abusive spouses with passive or masochistic mates, and the like. But it also works on Celestials. Other demons and even angels are learning not to let Zadkiel's Captains find out too much about them. Baron of Human Frailty -- A Baron can use the Malakim Resonance table, subject to the following restrictions: it costs him one Essence; he always knows the ignoble aspects of a subject, never the noble ones; and a roll of 6 on the check digit must be re-rolled, except on an intervention. Relations Zadkiel has found her legs in Hell with surprising speed, and has established a small Principality and a modest but secure power base. She is now in the process of finding her place in the underworld's pecking order. Zadkiel has quickly forged good relations with those Princes who specialize in self-indulgence; their Words work naturally well together, and so do they. Kronos, too, has shown approval of the new Princess; as she promotes her Word, she gives him new ways to manipulate humans towards their Fates. The more conservative and more aggressive Princes tend to be somewhat suspicious of her. Beleth and Lilith, in particular, have taken a swift dislike to their new sister. Beleth hates her because Zadkiel works to make humans _feel good_, at least in the short run... and perhaps, too, because Beleth can't stand the sight of a fallen Cherub who still seems to be enjoying herself. Lilith's dislike is more abstract, but not much less intense. Andrealphus -- "Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Lovely lady, we are going to make *beautiful* music together." Andrealphus heartily approves of the new Princess; their Words work well together without competing, and he also likes the fact that she's another (relatively) well-mannered and gracious Superior. He couldn't have *abided* another Saminga... Andre has even loaned some Word-bound to help her get set up. Asmodeus -- "Not as simple as she seems... Lucifer has given her a new and complex Word, and she is rising to the challenge. She has played her own game well, and followed Hell's rules. So far." Asmodeus cautiously approves of this energetic new Superior, though of course he's watching her carefully at all times. Baal -- "It's a lot of nonsense. Wars are won by fighting, not helping each other feel good about ourselves. Frankly, I liked her better on the other side." Beleth -- "Smiling, cooing, simpering fool. They say _that's_ frightening? She'd better stay away from my Marches." (Zadkiel: "Why, I do believe she's jealous. She wants to scare them, while I want to help them feel _good_... guess who's going to go further, given time?") Belial -- "Uh... what Baal said." Fleurity -- "Oh. Oh, it's love, my dear. Hit the vein, and push it ALL the way in, darling." Fleurity likes Zadkiel just fine, but there might be some trouble ahead; a Habbalite, he wants to punish the weak, not protect them. It's not an issue yet, though. Haagenti -- "You hold the plate, babe, and I'll hold the fork!" Kobal -- "Hi, I'm from Hell, I'm here to help you. Heh heh heh." Kobal thinks Zadkiel and her Word are oodles of fun. However, he's annoyed at her right now because she tried to poach the Word of Spoiled Children from him, so he's neutral rather than friendly. Kronos -- "Yes. This is how we help them find their fates... by blinding them to themselves, and to all other possibilities. I approve." Kronos is the only Prince friendly to Zadkiel who isn't part of the Shal-Mari crowd. His approval has gone a long way towards securing her position. Lilith -- "Mmm, she seeks to enslave us, even if only to ourselves. What she does subverts choice and free will. And doesn't Hell have enough Princesses? Get rid of her." It's not completely clear why Lilith dislikes Zadkiel as much as she does, but she does. (Zadkiel: "Another one who's jealous. I serve their Needs, and ask for nothing in return.") Malphas -- "I like what she does, but I hate the way she does it. She has them helping each other, even if it's only help down the road to Hell. We each of us fall alone. She doesn't *understand*." Malphas is hostile, which means that Zadkiel should probably be watching her Servitors very closely. Nybbas -- "Ethnic cleansing? No, it's self-determination! Murder? Hey, it's self defense! Rape? Man, she was begging for it! Child abuse? We call it discipline! Yes! This girl has the real creative touch! I see big, big numbers!" Dysfunctional relationships and human weakness are the soul of entertainment; Nybbas is sure that Zadkiel is going to provide plenty of raw material for him. Hell's media has been depicting her in a favorable light since she first arrived, which has helped her get established quickly. Zadkiel owes Nybbas, and she knows it. Saminga -- "Who cares about her? Dead is dead, whether you feel good about it or not." Valefor -- "She protects people from the consequences of their actions. Is that really a good thing? Incompetent thieves _should_ get caught..." Vapula -- "She protects people from the consequences of their actions, and that's a good thing. Technology shouldn't have to worry about consequences. Also, I like the way she's moving with the times." Allied: Andrealphus, Fleurity, Nybbas Associated: Haagenti, Kronos Hostile: Baal, Belial, Malphas Enemy: Lilith, Beleth Words: As a late arrival in Hell, Zadkiel found that a lot of the obvious Words that might have come under hers were already claimed by Servitors of other Princes (Spouse Abuse, Bartenders, Coverups, and Therapists, to name a few). But she has shown herself quite creative at coming up with new ones, from Self-Help Manuals to Tolerance. She has also aggressively pursued existing Words, and without being any too picky as to how. Her greatest coup to date has been the acquisition of the venerable word of Excuses. The previous holder (an ancient Servitor of Sloth who had transferred his allegiance to Malphas) expired recently under sudden and mysterious circumstances; Zadkiel entered her claim simply by announcing a Hell-wide contest. Over Malphas' loud protest, Lucifer has allowed this to proceed. Since this is a major Word with a number of sub-words already under it (including the subtle and powerful Balseraph of Alibis and the limping little demon of Lame Excuses), the competition is expected to be fierce. Because her Word is a complex one that overlaps with many others, Zadkiel will probably be trying to poach Words and Word-Bound from other Princes for some time to come. Hell being Hell, this is sure to lead to trouble before long. Meanwhile, she's getting a steady stream of new applicants, ambitious demons who are willing to take a chance. Servitors: Zadkiel is one of the less obviously horrible Superiors, but that doesn't mean she's still an angel. She runs a tight ship, regularly checking up on her Servitors "for their own good". Dissonance and Discord will be noticed quickly and dealt with mercilessly... and few demons care to go through Zadkiel's "therapy" more than once. Zadkiel also expects her Servitors to have a smile on their faces. They are, after all, *helping* people. Some demons find this difficult. In terms of organization, she's still in the shakedown period; a surprising number of Servitors report directly to her without any intermediary. She has several Word-bound who fell with her and were given new Words, but she has wisely mixed these with new recruits from Hell. So far, Zadkiel hasn't had any Renegades, so security around her demons' Hearts is quite light. This may change, as Zadkiel is probably not going to tolerate Renegades very well. There's nothing a codependent hates worse than rejection... Tethers: Zadkiel has only a few Tethers so far, mostly in places like quack feel-good therapy centers and the sorts of expensive "resorts" where wealthy families sent members with addictions and bad habits to cool their heels for a while. Basic rites Spend two hours convincing a human that he should feel good about his flaws or vices no matter what people may say (1 essence). Place a human in a dysfunctional relationship with another human (1 essence, +1 more essence if the relationship encourages a vice or character flaw in either human, +1 more essence if the relationship lasts more than a month). Remove a human from a situation where that human would undergo help or treatment for a moral flaw or addiction (1 essence). Invocation modifiers +1 A self-help book that really doesn't +2 A person (other than a Balseraph) denying that he has a problem, when he does +3 Someone who has taken back an abusive spouse +4 Someone explaining to an audience why an atrocity was necessary, or the burned-out ruins of a drug rehab center +5 A criminal or drug addict, previously reformed, who has relapsed within the last six hours +6 The successful coverup of a major political scandal "for the good of the country" Plot seeds -- One of Zadkiel's Servitors believes that it should be possible to spark the creation of a major Tether of Codependence by creating an appropriate internation situation. The Servitor wants to arrange for international forces to intervene in a small country to improve things there, perhaps by saving an ethnic minority or stopping a famine. Then, the intervention should make things *worse*... and finally, the small country should become dependent on further interventions... codependence on a truly massive scale. This is a long shot, but if it works, the Servitor and anyone who helps him will be massively rewarded. -- An important mortal politician is wrestling with an addiction -- to sex, to alchohol, whatever. A direct attack on the politician would certainly attract Heaven's attention. But Zadkiel's particular strength is indirection... and the politician's spouse has long been a codependent enabler to the addictive behavior. Zadkiel is mounting a campaign to get at the politician through the spouse. Demon PCs might become involved helping this; Angels would be trying to detect and thwart it. If Zadkiel succeeds, Nybbas will make sure she gets plenty of publicity, and her power will grow accordingly. -- Heaven is holding a job search for Zadkiel's replacement; the Word of Protection is up for grabs. This is a very powerful Word -- any angel that takes it will probably achieve Superior status soon thereafter -- but PCs could get involved in the competition in a variety of ways. Zadkiel, too, may try to interfere. She's Fallen, and she's pretty busy these days, but that doesn't mean she takes no interest anymore... -- Zadkiel wants to acquire a fairly important Word that is held by a Servitor of another Prince. If the Prince is friendly, this could involve negotiation. Otherwise... well, if the Word-holder is no more, the Word goes up for grabs. This sort of thing can easily lead to open conflict, of course. And while Zadkiel is still building her power, she really can't afford a major conflict with another Prince. So subtlety is called for here... Douglas Muir 1999 douglas.muir@yale.edu . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:20:21 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror - -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Muir To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 30 July 2000 02:08 Subject: Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror >Minor quibble: you said that Karypti would leave true innocents alone. I >suspect that his standard for "true" innocence would be set so high that >few above the age of six could readily qualify. Oh, undoubtedly. He's fairly standard Habbalite in that respect -- anybody who'd done the least thing wrong probably would qualify as "sinful". >...he'd be a big supporter of, mm, family values, wouldn't he? I mean, >anyone who knows a thing about schlock horror, knows that pre- or >extra-marital sex is just as lethal as robbing an orphanage or shooting a >cop. Maybe more so; the really evil characters are usually the last ones >to be killed. Absolutely. It's all sinful. And the sinful must be punished. (I really can't write an appropriate cackle, so please assume one at this point.) But the really wicked ones are tortured by fear as they see everyone else get killed first . . . ("Of course they're tortured by fear. Stop contradicting me, and go and chop that secretary who committed fornication into little bits.") >I imagine that, by following someone around for a while, he could almost >always come up with _something_. "There -- he stiffed the waitress on the >tip. Let's show him what being 'stiffed' *really* means! Ah Hah Hah Ha!" Absolutely. Have you been reading that comic too? :) Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:41:08 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Zadkiel the Demoness (was Re: IN> Playing Minor Superiors) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Muir" To: Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 8:21 PM Subject: IN> Playing Minor Superiors > Well, one way to make Zadkiel more interesting, of course, is... to have > her Fall. > > [rummage, rummage...] Ah. Here's an updated version of the "Fallen > Zadkiel" that I posted to the list last year. > > (For those of you who came late, we had a spasm of Fallen Archangels and > Redeemed Princes on the list last summer and autumn; some of them were very > interesting indeed.) > > I actually ended up using this Princess in my campaign; the Word and some > of the attunements got into my head and wouldn't leave me alone. Since I > didn't want to violate canon to the point of having an Archangel Fall, I > made my campaign version a demoness who had climbed up from the ranks to > become a minor (but rising) Superior. > > If you want to play it this way, feel free; a Habbalite, Balseraph, or > Impudite could run this Word just as well, I should think. Well, a fallen Zadkiel/Archangel of Protection has to be a Djinn, 'cause Zadkiel's a Cherub... ... but if you're just making a demon Zadkiel up from scratch, then here's the Band I'd pick. After all, Codependence's whole job is to sell people a lie, right? "It's not your fault?" "You can keep doing it, there's nothing really wrong with you?" Balseraph. *Definitely* Balseraph. This Word is a Balseraph's dream job. Not only does she get to lie to people all day, not only does she get to destroy them and bring them to Hell via a set of delusions, but for the icing on the cake the lies she's telling are so pleasant that her victims *want* to believe them. It's always easier to blame something other than yourself for the mess you're in, it's one of the more powerful of human impulses. If I were a Balseraph, I'd much rather be in the job where the people I was lying to -- correction, 'revealing the real truth to' -- *wanted* to believe what I was selling, as opposed to having to try to sell them something that most people wouldn't want to hear. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:43:43 EDT From: Zeresh43@gateway.net Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Interesting idea. If you look at the topic the list has been discussing for a little while now (the pointlessness of Zadkiel), there may be a reason for her falling right there. Perhaps she believed herself pointless, and while that may not have been the main factor contributing to her downfall, it may be what finally snapped her. Theoretically. Clear Skies Zeresh, demon of The Annoying New Guy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:37:41 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Poisons At 8:19 PM -0400 07/29/00, Zeresh43@gateway.net wrote: > Does anybody know what any of [these celestial/ethereal poisons] are? > It just says "most Celestials don't have knowledge of such things." > Zeresh, [Habbalite,] demon of the Annoying New Guy Which means, it's generally left up to the GM to deal with it. At least, that's how I'd interpret it. I suppose Jean, Vapula, and _maybe_ Makatiel [deceased Demon Prince of Disease] would know for certain, but it's the sort of thing they wouldn't just slip out on a whim. As for what they do? Who knows. (Double checking the GMG, shows that Vessels are only immune to disease [at least, save for the 'rumored' stuff that Makatiel came up with]. . . Since they aren't listed as being immune to them, then I do believe Poison _does_ effect them normally. Lemme double check the CPG now -- Nope, only says disease as the one thing that can't effect a Vessel. So I'd use the rules in the CPG on Toxins/Drugs to simulate what exactly the poisons do. There you go.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:08:09 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Poisons "Tafka J." wrote: > As for what they do? Who knows. (Double checking the GMG, shows that > Vessels are only immune to disease [at least, save for the 'rumored' stuff > that Makatiel came up with]. . . Since they aren't listed as being immune > to them, then I do believe Poison _does_ effect them normally. Lemme > double check the CPG now -- Nope, only says disease as the one thing that > can't effect a Vessel. So I'd use the rules in the CPG on Toxins/Drugs to > simulate what exactly the poisons do. There you go.) Note that celestials do add their Corporeal Forces to resistance rolls vs. poisons and drugs. Nothing on ethereal or celestial poisons has appeared in canon, but yeah, you could handle them similarly to corporeal ones. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:07:09 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Poisons From: Subject: IN> Celestial Poisons > Hey, it says in Night Music that there exists Ethereal and Celestial Poisons. > Does anybody know what any of these are? i remember seeing an early version of IN that featured some serpentine spirits native to the ethereal plane, called the adderim. their poison could affect creatures in celestial form, and do soul hits in damage (ouch). liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:21:42 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale... [big snip, re: Etherial Vietnam] > Charles Glasgow wrote: > 'cause it *is* a sick joke for angels to act that way)... > > ... and all of the Archangels involved in this should know that, and > therefore not do it -- no matter how much they think the other one just > screwed 'em over or not. > > I mean, it would be nice if angelic Superiors were given credit for being > beings of greater-than-human intelligence and selflessness, as they are > *supposed* to be... Of course, if this were true, this whole thread about "Thirty Seconds Over The Vale" would be pointless, 'cause Angels acting according to Chuckg's standard [quoted above] just wouldn't do anything like "TSOTV" to Blandine. But if Michael and Laurence can set this aside to launch unprovoked defensive strikes at Beleth and the Dark Side of The Vale, then Blandine can set it aside to defend her turf/responsibility/Word/Cathedral. Having them be *capable* of acting this stupidly expands the range of possible plots and makes Celestials more interesting. Please not that word 'capable' -- they don't have to act like this, they just, IMO, need to have this as an *option*. YMMV. Tom Timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well - Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in hell! "Strange Blood" A Wolfrider's Reflection, by various artists ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 2000 09:05:20 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Playing Minor Superiors On Thu, 27 July 2000, Kris Overstreet wrote: > Zadkiel is not the first or oldest Cherub, but she is the ultimate guardian > angel, and her Servitors in general are charged with protecting not only > humanity but those Angels who cannot help themselves. Whereas most of the > Host is -offense- driven, Zadkiel's forces are primarily defensive, and > play the role of shield to Laurence's Sword. Funny you should say that, because in my Endgame cosmology (which I'm still working on, honest! It's just taking me longer than I thought), she appears to Laurence just before the Last Battle and offers herself as his shieldmaiden. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:19:10 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Updating the INC: July 27, 2000 > To think that something I did for my seraphim's character background has > passed into legend. Seraph. Not Seraphim. (S) Nybbas. Not Nybblas. (Giblets.) Gabriel. ESPECIALLY in the pre-Fall days. Not Gabrielle. NEVER Gabrielle. Argh. > -Charlemagne Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:48:44 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Canonical Questions? Does anyone have any recommendations of places I can go to for canonical answers to questions if I am unable to find them on this list? Thanks, Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:34:06 -0400 From: "A.Hamilton" Subject: Re: IN> "Angel" of Schlock Horror > > > >Minor quibble: you said that Karypti would leave true innocents alone. I > >suspect that his standard for "true" innocence would be set so high that > >few above the age of six could readily qualify. > > > Oh, undoubtedly. He's fairly standard Habbalite in that respect -- anybody > who'd done the least thing wrong > probably would qualify as "sinful". After reading this..I just can't shake the image of that scene from Dogma. The one where Loki and Bartleby head into the corporate headquarters of that company that combines Disney with McDonalds. They've just slaughter everyone in the room except for this one woman. And she's tremblign with fear. And Loki tells her that she's in the clear. Then he sneezes and she's still gibbering. And Loki goes, "You didn't say Bless You." And clicks the gun again, ready to put her out of her misery. To bring this back in to IN...anyone have any ideas what Bartleby and Loki would be? > Genevieve A.Hamilton ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:08:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Licence to Smite You have to love long train rides. I came up with this, coming back from DC, after asking myself, "But there must be _something_ that those guys would be doing to justify their Words!"* It's a little weird, I grant, and maybe even non-canonical (I neglected to look up the Angel of Spies' Superior: heck, I'm not even sure _he's_ canonical), but I think that it _works_. If you disagree, feel free to tell me so. :) Morgan Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of This Tape Will Self-Destruct in 5 Seconds... *Well, I also came up with a couple artifacts that Malakim of all ages will really, really want (IMHO), as well as a solution to the problems I was having with my Angel of Troubadours, but I'm still working out the bugs with them. :) License to Smite, Or "What the heck am I going to do with Marc, Litheroy and Zadkiel, anyway?" The above Superiors have primary functions, of course, represented by their Words. However, over the centuries, they have found themselves and their organizations expanding into a field where their gifts are of vital importance to the Host. They've become Heaven's intelligence and covert operations directors. Spies, in other words. Their major focus is on humanity's activities, as rest of the Host routinely deals with the more straightforward demonic plots and stratagems, but this is not a hard and fast rule. Marc, Litheroy and Zadkiel tend to work fairly closely together these days. There is tension between the two minor Superiors, thanks to different methodologies, but no major hostility. Their respective Servitors tend to be somewhat more disparaging (though both groups agree that Trade's Collators have no real clue about dealing with the real world), but this rarely gets in the way of a mission. Intelligence Analysis Marc was the first to get involved. Few outsiders ever really comprehend how much information flows through Trade's collective hands: Marc's Servitors are routinely placed in every major center of economic activity (and most of the minor ones as well), and they pass along anything important. They have to, as their superiors (and their Superior) need accurate data for their economic models and plans. Marc soon noticed that his analysts were acquiring information that allowed them to better predict non-economic activities as well. Wars, for example, often start because of shortages, droughts, depressions, conflicts over resources: after a while, his Servitors were able to accurately predict corporeal conflicts fairly well in advance. This proved highly useful to the Host, who could act on those warning signals and prevent armed conflicts. This limited predictive ability also held true for technological developments, social trends, cultural developments ... anything affected by economics (that is, most human activities). These days, Trade's Collation Department is heavily involved in gathering intelligence on everything. Most of it is gathered perfectly normally, through the news, economic reports, government publications: many of Trade's relievers spend their apprenticeship on Earth buying newspapers and magazines, subscribing to online publications, and collecting quarterly reports from various companies. This information is gleaned for everything interesting and sent upstairs to Heaven (it goes without saying that Trade's computing equipment is the best that Marc can cajole out of Jean). More sensitive information requires agents in place, whether Servitors or Soldiers. It's also a truism among the Host (especially Servitors of War) that passing along interesting bits of data to an angel of Trade is usually well worth one's while. Once this data gets upstairs, it's relentlessly manipulated and collated by some of Heaven's best analysts. Some of the angels and blessed souls that work for Collations have spent centuries overseeing a particular area, and many of them can intuitively spot what is and what is not relevant. The overall picture that develops from these tireless workers is presented to Marc and his top intelligence advisors, who then pass along relevant information to the rest of the Host. This is, incidentally, one of the major reasons why Marc enjoys fairly good relations with most of the War faction. Intelligence Collection Marc's methods are quite good at acquiring most of the raw data that Heaven needs, but his Servitors run into situations where crucial information or intents are not easily acquired. Also, Servitors of Trade have difficulty in transactions where they cannot give fair value for the information they receive. And, of course, sometimes there's an actual mystery involved. When all of this happens, they pass along the problem up the chain of command, where it usually gets handed off to Revelations, Heaven's best investigators. Most Servitors of Revelations that work with Trade (officially referred to as 'Consultants') are experts in specific fields of expertise, ranging from geographical to academic. Inside these fields, they also have access to a wide variety of contacts that can make their specific tasks easier. A Consultant will organize these contacts through Soldiers of God (unlike most Servitors of Revelation, these angels find it easy to acquire acceptable recruits, and they all have them), providing himself with a cutout that will obviate the need to answer awkward questions. Between the Consultant's own stellar investigative abilities (and that of his contacts), many purely human security procedures are useless. Consultants are also some of Heaven's greatest technophiles. Computers, fax machines, cell phones are potent tools to them, allowing them to use his or her contacts more directly if necessary. Contacts usually believe that they are working for a secretive, worldwide organization dedicated to fighting evil: completely accurate, of course, but it's not the angel's fault if the contact thinks that he's ultimately answering to the UN Security Council, rather than to a metaphysical being. Contacts are usually very loyal, even if not motivated by patriotism or a sense of duty towards humanity: Consultants (unlike many spy agencies) take quite a bit of trouble to smooth the paths of those who work for them. Those of Trade, who are often best suited to provide material aid, usually handle such benefits. Covert Operations When a problem is discovered (either by Trade or Revelations' people) that needs fixing, the optimal solution is to hand it off to the Archangel most likely to be affected by it. Michael _wants_ to know if a terrorist group is about to blow up a building that incidentally holds one of his Tethers. Laurence will be quite annoyed if nobody tells him that a South American nunnery has been captured by drug lords, its inhabitants forced to aid in smuggling cocaine. Dominic very much prefers to handle major perversions of the justice system in his own way, with his own people. It's common courtesy, good public relations, and usually more efficient to boot. Sometimes, though, passing the buck isn't feasible. For example, problems that happen in Marc's bailiwick are his own responsibility to clean up. Sometimes a problem is too subtle for the "Malakim swoop in and kill everybody" method certain Superiors use, or requires operatives with unique abilities. And sometimes there just isn't time to go through channels. When this happens, Zadkiel's people get the call. Zadkiel has her own little group (usually called Cleansers, Adjusters, or simply The Group) of angels and Soldiers who seem a cross between a FBI Counter-terrorism squad and the characters from 'Mission: Impossible'. They routinely get assignments where lives of the faithful are at stake, and where simply killing everyone they see will be worse than useless. They excel in the art of the doublecross: setting up situations where the faithless end up turning their weapons each other is pursued with almost artistic fervor. A Cleanser's major point of pride is the number of crises that she and her team have shut down cold, without anyone noticing. Cleansers are picked for the ability to move fast, improvise on the run and hit with precise strength and delicacy. They are the elite of Zadkiel's Servitors. Soldiers of Protection assigned to The Group are the best infiltrators Heaven has. Zadkiel routinely inserts them into Hellsworn support groups, bidding them wait for the best moment to utilize their services. Actually disguising a Soldier of God as a Soldier of Hell is the ultimate achievement, but has been successfully accomplished only four times in as many centuries. It was ultimately worth it every time, but the practice is only even considered in the direst of situations. Zadkiel also has quite a few Soldiers scattered in the oddest places: more than one mission has succeeded when a janitor has casually reached into his lunchbox and put a bullet through the head of the primary target. Needless to say, both of these types of Soldiers invariably have no close kin. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1744 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.