From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jul 31 02:03:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25163 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:03:24 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id CAA24011 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:01:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:01:56 -0500 Message-Id: <200007310701.CAA24011@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1745 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, July 31 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1745 In this digest: Re: IN> Licence to Smite IN> Dogma in In Nomine (was angel of Schlock horror) IN> Railing against Nitpicking Re: IN> Railing against Nitpicking Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...[big snip, re: Etherial Vietnam] Michael and Falling (was Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...) Re: Michael and Falling (was Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...) Re: IN> Railing against Nitpicking IN> Weird artifact #1 Re: IN> Weird artifact #1 IN> Weird Artifact #2 Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Re: IN> Beleth and Blandine's relationship Re: IN> In Nomine Adventures (Was Dead Superiors) Re: IN> Railing against Nitpicking Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Re: IN> In Nomine: Before the Fall. Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen Re: IN> Playing Minor Superiors Re: IN> Canonical Questions? Re: IN> Minor Superiors Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract IN> A quickie location ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:26:47 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Licence to Smite - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 5:08 PM Subject: IN> Licence to Smite > You have to love long train rides. I came up with > this, coming back from DC, after asking myself, "But > there must be _something_ that those guys would be > doing to justify their Words!"* > > It's a little weird, I grant, and maybe even > non-canonical (I neglected to look up the Angel of > Spies' Superior: heck, I'm not even sure _he's_ > canonical), but I think that it _works_. If you > disagree, feel free to tell me so. :) Nisroc, Angel of Spies. Mercurian of War. He actually has an entire official writeup, on p. 126 of Superiors 1. [snip] > License to Smite, Or > "What the heck am I going to do with Marc, Litheroy > and Zadkiel, anyway?" > The above Superiors have primary functions, of course, > represented by their Words. However, over the > centuries, they have found themselves and their > organizations expanding into a field where their gifts > are of vital importance to the Host. They've become > Heaven's intelligence and covert operations directors. > Spies, in other words. Great take on Marc and a good one on Litheroy. However, Zadkiel's people don't really *do* pre-emptive strikes... ... but Michael has got people who just *love* to do the "spooky troops" routine. And who are fully as capable of the subtle kind of "sneak in, break only what needs to be broken, vanish into the night and fog" routine as he does of the kind of "Nuke 'em till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark" type of assault that War is stereotypically famous for. (Canonically, a lot of Heaven's intelligence operations are Michael's anyway... he has more agents in place (a lot of them Saints), more sleeper agents, more "off-the-record" contacts with neutrals and ethereals and Renegades, etc, etc, than half the Host combined.) [snip] > Covert Operations > > When a problem is discovered (either by Trade or > Revelations' people) that needs fixing, the optimal > solution is to hand it off to the Archangel most > likely to be affected by it. Michael _wants_ to know > if a terrorist group is about to blow up a building > that incidentally holds one of his Tethers. Laurence > will be quite annoyed if nobody tells him that a South > American nunnery has been captured by drug lords, its > inhabitants forced to aid in smuggling cocaine. > Dominic very much prefers to handle major perversions > of the justice system in his own way, with his own > people. It's common courtesy, good public relations, > and usually more efficient to boot. > > Sometimes, though, passing the buck isn't feasible. > For example, problems that happen in Marc's bailiwick > are his own responsibility to clean up. Sometimes a > problem is too subtle for the "Malakim swoop in and > kill everybody" method certain Superiors use, or > requires operatives with unique abilities. And > sometimes there just isn't time to go through > channels. > > When this happens, Zadkiel's people get the call. > > Zadkiel has her own little group (usually called > Cleansers, Adjusters, or simply The Group) of angels > and Soldiers who seem a cross between a FBI > Counter-terrorism squad and the characters from > 'Mission: Impossible'. They routinely get assignments > where lives of the faithful are at stake, and where > simply killing everyone they see will be worse than > useless. They excel in the art of the doublecross: > setting up situations where the faithless end up > turning their weapons each other is pursued with > almost artistic fervor. A Cleanser's major point of > pride is the number of crises that she and her team > have shut down cold, without anyone noticing. Mike's got people who *live* for this kind of stuff. Elohim of War would just looooooooooooooooooooooove this job... and for that matter, so would his Mercurians. [snip] > Zadkiel also has quite a few Soldiers scattered in the > oddest places: more than one mission has succeeded > when a janitor has casually reached into his lunchbox > and put a bullet through the head of the primary > target. Needless to say, both of these types of > Soldiers invariably have no close kin. Canonically, already been done. Corporeal Players' Guide, p. 87 -- where most Superiors maintain a few dozen Saints, Michael runs over a thousand. 99% of whom are set in place as long-term sleeper agents. Again, Marc and Litheroy's new jobs are faboo and well written. But while I understand your intent to fit Zadkiel in somewhere (so as to give her something to do), the sad fact is that half the stuff you've got her doing is already canonically allocated to Michael, and the other half still fits his Word a lot better than hers. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:37:26 -0400 From: "Chalres Phipps" Subject: IN> Dogma in In Nomine (was angel of Schlock horror) >After reading this..I just can't shake the image of that scene from Dogma. >The one where Loki and Bartleby head into the corporate headquarters of that >company that combines Disney with McDonalds. They've just slaughter >everyone in the room except for this one woman. And she's tremblign with >fear. And Loki tells her that she's in the clear. Then he sneezes and >she's still gibbering. And Loki goes, "You didn't say Bless You." And >clicks the gun again, ready to put her out of her misery. >To bring this back in to IN...anyone have any ideas what Bartleby and Loki >would be? heheheh one of my favorite scenes from that movie. Well it says up front Bartebly was a Grigori (Watcher) and his love of humanity, ability to listen, and all that certainly makes him a good canidate for that choir. However quoting that he read the Word of God at Sodom and Gammorah and likely did the same sort of thing at Egypt. I'm going to go out on an extreme limb and say that Bartebly is a Seraph (you hear that NOT *SERAPHIM*-EVERBODY GOT THAT?! I UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT SERAPHIM!). Probably of Judgement or Yves. Loki as disturbing as this sounds seems to me the perfect Mercurian of Judgement. Yes a lover of humanity with a liscense to kill. Now while I personally doubt most Mercurians of Judgement enjoy their job as much as Loki does (probably most acting on this whole "necessary evil" moping about garbage) the way he messes with people's heads defined the Mercurian choir for me. Strictly speaking he might be an Malakim more appopriatly (especially since he wasn't corrupted in the end). Definately Judgement however...or War. Azrael of course was an Impudite of Saminga...with three ummm very small Calabim (likely what happens when you see servants of Christopher Fall) The excrement demon strikes me as what happens when a Servitor of Beleth ticks off his mistress on a very bad day. Serendpidity was of course a Cherub of Blandine. Rufus a Saint of Laurence. The Last Scion just yet another one of those crazy prophecy children that keep popping up on Heaven's list every few years. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:43:43 -0400 From: "Chalres Phipps" Subject: IN> Railing against Nitpicking Ben.....I understand your need for professional style nitpicking and consistancy.... But right now I'm ready to ask Michael to move the Djinn of Nitpicking and ALL her servitors up to Numero Uno on the Target list. Laurence too.... >Seraph. Not Seraphim. (S) Unless he has a split personality. oooo Ooo maybe he believes in the trinity and a facet of God he should refer to him in triplicate.... Ya think of that? >Nybbas. Not Nybblas. (Giblets.) Maybe that's the formal way he spells his name....after all demons have a few thousand names and titles. MAYBE THE *L* MEANS SOMETHING! >Gabriel. ESPECIALLY in the pre-Fall days. Not Gabrielle. NEVER Gabrielle. >Argh. Never? oh yeah sure....of course GABRIEL didn't have a femmine side, he was the big hot shot male demons who had hundreds of consorts among the female demon... NEVERRRRR took a female vessel. *I DON'T THINK SO*! If Michael can assume a female form I'm thinking Gabriel/Gabrielle could be a female Archangel in perhaps Zorastrian times. Also he's a few more annoyances. BHAAL! KHOBAL KHRONOS! MESPHITO as *ANOTHER* name for Kobal Calling Dominic, DOMNIQUE when he's in Male form! SERAPHIM SERAPHIM SERAPHIM FOR ONE ANGEL! BWHAHAHAHHAH... Okay...that was surprisingly theraputic - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:06:20 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Railing against Nitpicking > Maybe that's the formal way he spells his name....after all demons have a > few thousand names and titles. MAYBE THE *L* MEANS SOMETHING! *twitch* Nybblas has been getting to me for months now. I like to say it out loud. Nybblas. Argh. Nybblas, Demon of Annoying Errors Habbalite of Kobal > If Michael can assume a female form I'm thinking Gabriel/Gabrielle could be > a female Archangel in perhaps Zorastrian times. Canonically, no. He did not. Not with any degree of consistency. Not until after he dictated the Quran to Muhammed. And even then, they still called him Gabriel. Biblically... there's a bit of scholarly work that theorizes that Gabriel was a female angel. Gabriel's predeliction for child-birth, his status as a protector, and his position as that guy who makes the cleft in your upper lip during pregnancy all point towards an angel that focuses a lot on female things. Plus, some renaissance artists portrayed him as female, although he looks more like Queen Victoria than anything else when thus portrayed. > SERAPHIM SERAPHIM SERAPHIM FOR ONE ANGEL! I have two computers at work, one named Seraphim and one named Cherubim, and have to mentallity shift from refering to them as singular to refering to In Nomine angels in the plural. > -Charlemagne Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:26:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...[big snip, re: Etherial Vietnam] Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:21:42 -0500From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...[big snip, re: Etherial Vietnam] > Charles Glasgow wrote: >> I mean, it would be nice if angelic Superiors were >> given credit for being beings of greater-than-human >> intelligence and selflessness, as they are >> *supposed* to be... >Of course, if this were true, this whole thread about >"Thirty Seconds Over The Vale" would be pointless, >'cause Angels acting according to Chuckg's standard >[quoted above] just wouldn't do anything like "TSOTV" >to Blandine. But if Michael and Laurence can set this >aside to launch unprovoked defensive strikes at >Beleth and the Dark Side of The Vale, then Blandine >can set it aside to defend her turf/ responsibility/ >Word/ Cathedral. Minor point: When I wrote this up, I was actually thinking (for a change) about why Mike and Davey would try to pull off something like this. David's the easy one to rationalize: he doesn't seem to take the entire Dreams/Nightmares conflict too seriously, Mike's come up with a way to short circuit the whole thing, and it's not like Blandine likes him anyway. Michael's a little more involved. Call me possibly prejudiced (and I like the galoot, I really do), but IMHO the Archangel of War skirts closer to the line than any other AA except Khalid v1.0 . He's the one with the secret resources, the one who makes under the counter deals with Outcasts and Renegades and Ethereals (oh my!), and Mike's the one who seems to always try something sneaky. He's just not very Seraphimish (again IMHO), sometimes. Hair-splitting (the cause of this mess) seems right up his alley. That being said, I doubt that B&B would join forces and hold off all comers. Even if Blandine _wanted_ to (which I can't see her doing), Beleth would never believe the offer to be real. I _can_ see Blandine finding David and kicking the cr*p out of him, then using his unconscious body to lay out Michael*, which is something that one really shouldn't let happen in front of the relievers. :) >Having them be *capable* of acting this stupidly >expands the range of possible plots and makes >Celestials more interesting. Please not that word >'capable' -- they don't have to act like this, they >just, IMO, need to have this as an *option*. YMMV. This I wholeheartedly agree with, BTW. This stunt of M&D's isn't a _good_ idea, which is why Larry (who would go freaking insane over such a violation of somebody else's turf) is Commander of the Host, not either one of those two. Larry's better at The Big Picture. :) YMMV. Moe *Never fight someone who's been unceasingly at war for 20,000 years. There's no way you can have as much of a mad-on as her. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:09:32 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Michael and Falling (was Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 6:26 PM Subject: Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...[big snip, re: Etherial Vietnam] > Michael's a little more involved. Call me possibly > prejudiced (and I like the galoot, I really do), but > IMHO the Archangel of War skirts closer to the line > than any other AA except Khalid v1.0 . He's the one > with the secret resources, the one who makes under the > counter deals with Outcasts and Renegades and > Ethereals (oh my!), and Mike's the one who seems to > always try something sneaky. I think you're confusing goals and methods. IMNSHO -- and the canon writeup -- Michael is the least likely angel to Fall in the entire Host, and that *includes* the Malakim. Michael has no doubt in God, no lack of faith in God, not the slightest urge to rebel against God. Michael's loyalty to God is as nigh-perfect as his warrior skills -- his Lord commands, he obeys. Michael's hatred for the demons is implacable because, to his mind, they are committing the ultimate Lie vs. the ultimate Truth -- they deny the will of God. Khalid v1.0 was on the verge of falling not because of his methods, but because he was losing his faith. Michael's faith is as strong as it ever was. At least as far as In Nomine seems to go, there is nothing *inherently* immoral about lying, killing, stealing, or sneaking. It's *WHY* you lie, skill, steal, or sneak that determines whether your actions were "right" or "wrong". In much the same way that the same act -- pulling a trigger and shooting another human dead -- can have two diametrically opposite moral ramifications under two different sets of circumstances (such as the difference between shooting the Zodiac killer as he bends over his latest victim with bloody knife in hand vs. shooting Grandma at the corner store so you can grab her welfare check off her dead body), Michael's acts of War rely on their morality not just on what he does, but on why. Of course, there are some acts that are simply and purely wrong no matter what the justification. (Most of them can be found on the average Shedim's "to-do" list for the day.) But Mike don't do those. From Superiors 1, p. 109 "The only being with whom he will not strive, with whom there can be no battle, is God. Michael obeys." "Where is there room for doubt? Michael *knows* that God exists, that God created him, that God created the universe... it is implicit in every Truth that he hears as a Seraph, and absolute in his existence. God *exists*, God is *right*, and Lucifer and all his legions are *wrong*. The ultimate Lie is the denial and refusal of God. And if Michael doesn't always understand God's design for the universe, or all his motives -- well, a soldier needs to have faith in his commander." In any universe where it's "OK" for Dominic to forget to mention things to the Seraphim Council -- such as his collaboration with the Game -- and rack up no dissonance thereby, then Michael's activities come under the same thing. In order to Fall, one must put one's personal Symphony ahead of, must consider it more important than, the Symphony itself (which means more important than God). And Michael won't even *think* about doing that. It's entirely outside his worldview. (So how can he justify all the shadowy stuff he does? It's part of his Word. He's got a *very* broad Word -- not surprising, it's one of the oldest Words around. He's War, not the Sword. He's not the personification of honor -- that's Laurence. He's the guy who's supposed to *win*.) > He's just not very Seraphimish (again IMHO), sometimes. Hair-splitting > (the cause of this mess) seems right up his alley. Actually, I thought the cause of this mess were simple ignorance -- they thought they'd found the perfect solution to stopping Beleth's crew from dragging dreamers to the Nightmare side of the vale, but their nigh-total lack of experience in the ethereal realms didn't clue them in to the idea that the battles vs. Beleth themselves would cause more nightmares on their own hook than even Beleth's demons could, given free reign of the Vale. Admittedly, it's still slightly unbelievable that they'd be that stupid. Emphasis -- "slightly". I can stretch my suspension of disbelief far enough to cover that much. I just couldn't swallow some far-fetched "Ethereal Vietnam", especially with angels on both sides of the battle. > That being said, I doubt that B&B would join forces > and hold off all comers. Even if Blandine _wanted_ to > (which I can't see her doing), Beleth would never > believe the offer to be real. I _can_ see Blandine > finding David and kicking the cr*p out of him, then > using his unconscious body to lay out Michael*, which > is something that one really shouldn't let happen in > front of the relievers. :) [snip] > *Never fight someone who's been unceasingly at war for > 20,000 years. There's no way you can have as much of > a mad-on as her. :) I realize you're joking here. At least, I hope you're joking here. Both Michael and David have also been unceasingly at war for the same period of time. I mean, kee-ripes, when it comes to "unceasing", when it comes to absolute single-minded fixity of purpose, *nobody* in Heaven or Hell can match David. He's Stone, he's the Juggernaut, he moves very slowly... but once he sets his mind to a given course of motion, nothing can stop him save himself. "Do you hear that, Mr. Andersen? That... is the sound of... inevitability." -- Agent Smith, "The Matrix" And Michael's not too far behind. Blandine can be significantly more powerful than normally believed for and still be nowhere near what it takes to be able to club both of *those* two unconscious so easily, especially using one to pound the other. It can be argued with a fair if not certain degree of probability that the Lucifer of today (as opposed to the Lucifer of the Fall) can have that much power -- nobody else is a credible candidate. (Mainly 'cause if she were really that strong, the War could have shifted Heaven's way a long time ago... just decoy Baal into taking a widdle stroll in the Marches, and then strike when Beleth is busy elsewhere. Repeat step one with a couple of other troublesome Princes. By the time they catch on, the balance of power's shifted in your favor. *eg*) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:21:51 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: Michael and Falling (was Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Glasgow" To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 7:09 PM Subject: Michael and Falling (was Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice Lane" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 6:26 PM > Subject: Re: IN> Thirty seconds over the Vale...[big snip, re: Etherial > Vietnam] > > > > > Michael's a little more involved. Call me possibly > > prejudiced (and I like the galoot, I really do), but > > IMHO the Archangel of War skirts closer to the line > > than any other AA except Khalid v1.0 . He's the one > > with the secret resources, the one who makes under the > > counter deals with Outcasts and Renegades and > > Ethereals (oh my!), and Mike's the one who seems to > > always try something sneaky. > > I think you're confusing goals and methods. > > IMNSHO -- and the canon writeup -- Michael is the least likely angel to Fall > in the entire Host, and that *includes* the Malakim. Correction -- "which is supported substantially if not explicitly by the canon writeup", not "and the canon writeup". - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:21:40 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Railing against Nitpicking ben wrote: > Canonically, no. He did not. Not with any degree of consistency. "Not with any degree of consistency" doesn't mean "never." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:25:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Weird artifact #1 Here's the first interesting thing I came up with. Any use that it might have for certain Servitors of Trade, Revelations or Protection is Strictly Coincidental. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Why, Yes, I _Did_ Watch :The Meaning Of Life: Recently. Why Do You Ask? Trick Umbrellas These artifacts are beloved by Malakim and Servitors of Trade. They are, essentially, functional umbrellas that can transform into a sword at will. The type of sword will depend on the umbrella: small, pop-out umbrellas become short swords, longer umbrellas become longswords, and golf umbrellas can transform into greatswords. The user must wield the umbrella and mentally will the transformation for it to take effect. A variant of this is a functional briefcase whose handle, when snapped back in a particular way, can be pulled out with three feet of sharpened steel attached to it (treat as a longsword). Either variant is undetectable by corporeal means when in a disguised state, though a celestial will detect them normally as artifacts. Corporeal Artifact (sword)/4 4 pt Transformation: 6 pt This is a variant of the Concealed Weapon Feature that utilizes an alternate method of disguise. The transformation is effectively "at will", and costs no Essence to use, but the item must be wielded in order to be activated. If surprised, the user must make a Precision Roll to properly make the invocation. This was determined to be a net advantage to Concealed Weapon overall, and worth 6 pt as a Feature. Total 10pt Trick Umbrellas are sometimes seen as a variant of the Fiery Sword relic. Simply add the cost of Transformation to the final cost. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:38:14 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Weird artifact #1 Maurice Lane wrote: > > Here's the first interesting thing I came up with. > Any use that it might have for certain Servitors of > Trade, Revelations or Protection is Strictly > Coincidental. :) Actually... Servitors of Litheroy couldn't use this artifact (at least not in any campaign I ran). It's inherently deceitful to pretend that something is something that it's not. And to actually conceal the fact that a sword is in fact a sword, well... Cheers, -Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:38:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Weird Artifact #2 And here's the other one. I'm unsure about the -6 Vulnerability, though. This addressed in the FAQ? Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Amazing. I Did Also Watch Black Mask Recently. Are You Psychic? Movie Pistol These relics are always in the shape of a commercially available handgun (and operate normally as such). The most common version has an increased ammunition supply: for every two levels of the relic, the user may load an extra standard magazine for 1 Essence (round down, minimum extra magazine capacity of 1). The procedure is: load the gun normally, spend the Essence, open the now empty chamber or pop the magazine, reload the gun, then (if possible) repeat until the relic's increased capacity is filled. Once the relic is loaded, the extra bullets will remain insubstantial until the user spends another Essence. Once that occurs, the Movie Pistol will not require reloading until all bullets have been fired. However, once this feature has been invoked, the relic cannot be safely reloaded until all bullets have been fired. A standard addition to the Movie Pistol is a reliquary/4 that can only be used to power the relic. An alternate version of this relic is sometimes given out to Soldiers as a mark of favor. While it does not have as high a ammunition capacity as the above relic, it does add to the user's Acrobatics, Dodge and Fighting skill … while the gun is being wielded. The mechanism behind this relic is somewhat mysterious. Movie Pistols first appeared in the hands of Servitors of the Media, but Jean was later able to reproduce the effects. It is rumored that the relic utilizes a version of the Corporeal Song of Self, but the Archangel of Lightning refuses to comment one way or the other. Movie Pistol (sample) Corporeal Artifact/4 4 pt Reliquary/2 (only with artifact) 4 pt Relic/4 (unknown, suspected possible Variation of Corporeal Song of Self) 12pt Vulnerability: Celestial Artifact destroyed When corporeal form destroyed -4pt Essence Cost: 3 points -2pt Visibility: Perception Roll -2pt Total 12pt Soldier's Movie Pistol Corporeal Artifact/2 2pt Talisman: Acrobatics/1, Dodge/2, Fighting/2 10pt Reliquary/2 (only with artifact) 4pt Relic/1 3pt Use Restriction: Must wield relic in order To acquire talisman bonuses -1pt Vulnerability: Celestial and Ethereal Artifact destroyed when corporeal form destroyed -6pt Essence Cost: 2 points -2pt Visibility: Perception Roll -2pt Total: 8pt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:33:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen - --- Douglas Muir wrote: > Zadkiel, Demon Princess of Codependence I *really* like Fallen Zadkiel...I was indiferent to her as an AA, but your Fallen edition is compelling... I'll probably adopt her outright... She and Furfur and Nybbas all go well together as the 'new guard' of sin, though Nybbas is clearly the old man of the bunch... > Band Attunements > > Shedim -- Shedim of Codependence corrupt their hosts > in the usual manner, > but generate a point of Essence for every evil act > they make their hosts > commit. Each day, they can generate Essence equal > to their celestial > forces in this manner. mmmm...this I would change to a point of essence for getting their host out of a jam...getting the senator out of the hotel room before the press shows up, keeping the pedophile from rendezvousing with the "14 year old" FBI agent he met online, etc. Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:20:36 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen >I *really* like Fallen Zadkiel...I was indiferent to >her as an AA, but your Fallen edition is compelling... Thank you very kindly. >I'll probably adopt her outright... If you don't want to break with canon, you could have her be a former Seraph or Elohite of Zadkiel's... one who Fell, and then worked her way up through Hell's ranks. As someone already pointed out, this Word is a Balseraph's dream job. It could work for other Bands too, though; can you imagine the twisted fun a Habbalite might have with it? >She and Furfur and Nybbas all go well together as the >'new guard' of sin, Yah, good point. IMO (and IMC), when it comes to creating new Superiors, Lucifer is a bit more "experimental" than the Council... much more willing to take chances. After all, Hell's relentless Darwinian competition will weed out the unfit fairly quickly. >> Band Attunements >> >> Shedim -- Shedim of Codependence corrupt their hosts >> in the usual manner, >> but generate a point of Essence for every evil act >> they make their hosts >> commit. Each day, they can generate Essence equal >> to their celestial >> forces in this manner. > >mmmm...this I would change to a point of essence for >getting their host out of a jam...getting the senator >out of the hotel room before the press shows up, >keeping the pedophile from rendezvousing with the "14 >year old" FBI agent he met online, etc. I like this... but it's a bit close to one of her Rites already, don't you think? I agree that the Shed attunement could be better, though. Hmm. Okay, how about this: "Shedim of Codependence may corrupt their hosts in the usual manner. However, they add their Ethereal forces to their roll for any corruption attempt that tends to saddle the host with an addiction, place him in a dysfunctional relationship, or otherwise do long-term or permanent damage to the host's character and morals. Every time they succeed in afflicting their host with such damage, they gain 1 Essence." Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:31:00 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Beleth and Blandine's relationship From: "Charles Phipps" > > Let it die because come Armageddon it will be Beleth and Blandine in a death > fight and I hope one is destrtoyed by the other....so a fitting end may be > for this Winter's tale. In the campaign I'm gearing up for, each died with the other's hands around her neck. And that's one of the milder things I'm going to be doing. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:35:36 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Adventures (Was Dead Superiors) From: "David Edelstein" > Enanidah Kallai wrote: > > *BOGGLE* You like FotM and FT?? You are in a minority > > of 1 there on this list then. > > No, he's not. There are a lot of problems with FotM and FT, but many > people have pointed out that there's some good stuff in them as well. > Don't presume to speak for the entire list. I have to second what David said. Yes, they have some really deep flaws, but they have the makings of some unbelievably good adventures in them. Can't wait to start my next campaign... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:36:50 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Railing against Nitpicking At 06:43 PM 30/07/00 -0400, Chalres Phipps wrote: >Ben.....I understand your need for professional style nitpicking and >consistancy.... As long as we're nitpicking, how do you spell your first name? :-) - -- "People are stupider than anybody." | hackard@io.com -- Tom Lehrer | AIM: Talthybias | ICQ: 19083015 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Douglas Muir wrote: > Okay, how about this: > > "Shedim of Codependence may corrupt their hosts in the usual manner. > However, they add their Ethereal forces to their roll for any corruption > attempt that tends to saddle the host with an addiction, place him in a > dysfunctional relationship, or otherwise do long-term or permanent damage > to the host's character and morals. Every time they succeed in afflicting > their host with such damage, they gain 1 Essence." I like it. Thumbs up. Although, I'd still tack onto the end: "The Shedite can gain up to its Celestial Forces in Essence from this each day." Just to avoid the Impudites getting jealous. :) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth...that you are a slave. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage - born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch...a prison for your mind." -- Morpheus, _The Matrix_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:04:11 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: Before the Fall. From: "David Rodemaker" > > > Q. What was Malphas's Word? I have no idea, but he helped David with > plate > > tectonics. This suggests a few earthly Words to do with breaking up the > > Earth's crust, but "the Archangel of Continental Drift" doesn't fly for > me. > > Possibly didn't have Word. How about "Unity" or something along those > lines... I would make him the Angel of Fractures, both because it fits his role in breaking the Earth's crust, and because it makes a great precursor to Factions... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:15:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel, Fallen - --- Douglas Muir wrote: > >I'll probably adopt her outright... > > If you don't want to break with canon, you could > have her be a former > Seraph or Elohite of Zadkiel's... one who Fell, and > then worked her way up > through Hell's ranks. Canon? Canon? I don' need no stinkin' - nevermind. No, I'll keep her as Falldown Zaddie, even though, if I'm ignoring canon, I could rewrite her choir/band too. 8-) You want to see broken canon? Jean: still AA of Lightning, but with a more explicit focus on science than technology. Why? Because Vapula is the DP of Pseudoscience. Jordi...Animals? Nah. Wilderness. I have yet to create his counterpart, the AA of Civilization. Novy is explicitly the AA of Healing. If you're looking for Flowers, you have to pick between Gardening, under Civilization, or Wildflowers, under Jordi. Falldown Zaddie fits just fine in my gameworld... > >She and Furfur and Nybbas all go well together as > the > >'new guard' of sin, > > Yah, good point. The Word of Codependence just inspired this: the Angel of Talk Shows, a servitor of Revelation who's been tragically led astray by a bal servitor of Nybbas, who's a teevee producer. > IMO (and IMC), when it comes to creating new > Superiors, Lucifer is a bit > more "experimental" than the Council... much more > willing to take chances. > After all, Hell's relentless Darwinian competition > will weed out the unfit > fairly quickly. In my gameworld, since Infernal Words are nothing more than demonic imposition of will upon the Symphony, Words come fast and cheap. > Okay, how about this: > > "Shedim of Codependence may corrupt their hosts in > the usual manner. > However, they add their Ethereal forces to their > roll for any corruption > attempt that tends to saddle the host with an > addiction, place him in a > dysfunctional relationship, or otherwise do > long-term or permanent damage > to the host's character and morals. Every time they > succeed in afflicting > their host with such damage, they gain 1 Essence." Much better. The other thing I was thinking of, but it wasn't a good enough idea to work out the mechanics, was to have the Shed build up lie upon lie upon lie for his host, then leave him in the lurch, but like I said, wasn't that great an idea. Although maybe for a bal... Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:27:17 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Playing Minor Superiors From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > And, pardon if the writer of the original's reading this, an > *actively* boring writeup. You try to read it, and your eyes slip off > the words and you start considering getting a life. I have to disagree utterly with you on this one. After reading her writeup, I completely changed the character concept I was working on for my second PC. It caused me to switch from playing Ofanim to Malakim. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:34:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Canonical Questions? - --- ben wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations of places I can > go to for canonical > answers to questions if I am unable to find them on > this list? The only other place to look would be the FAQ and errata pages on the sjgames website... After that, ask away... As far as I'm concerned, canon answers are rarely as interesting as the noncanonical riffs that everybody else drops in, but sometimes they are wanted and necessary... Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:45:20 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Minor Superiors From: > > And Soccer, of course, goes to Asmodeus. Although Soccer Fans go to Furfur. > (Is catching the ball in one's horns and running with it considered to be > a valid play?) Since the Rules do not state that you cannot, yes. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:58:04 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Romance -- Opposites Attract From: "Jo Hart" > > > >It's *not* nice to fool with Mother Nature. Push her far enough, it's > >going to hurt. > > But Novalis isn't Mother Nature, she's the Archangel of _Flowers_. Venus Flytraps are flowers... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:00:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: IN> A quickie location Okay, I haven't been able to come up with a specific character or plot seed for this, but it made such a great image and a perfectly natural addition to Heaven's landscape... There are plenty of churches in my area, and as is common with churches, many of them have inspirational little sayings on signs out front. One day I saw one that said: "Heaven is full of answers to prayers that haven't been said yet." Which immediately brought to mind a room in Yves' library, where those answers are stored, tended by one absolutely trustworthy angel... I have neither character nor adventure seed to go with that, but it's such a poetically beautiful idea, somebody has to be able to make use of it... Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1745 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.