From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 3 09:41:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26051 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:41:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA10425 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:38:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:38:05 -0500 Message-Id: <200008031438.JAA10425@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1754 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1754 In this digest: IN> The short life of PBEMs IN> Re: In> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun Re: IN> Super High Stats Re: IN> My Take of Yves Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs IN> Tsaydim part II-NPCs Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Re: IN> Thoughts on Malakite Oaths IN> Thoughts on Essence was(Re: In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream) Re: IN> Thoughts on Essence was(Re: In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream) IN> Habbalated Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony IN> Re: In> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun Re: IN> Habbalated Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 01:33:31 GMT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> The short life of PBEMs Someone was talking about a PBEM that died, and I thought I would comment. About a month ago, I expressed interest in joining a PBEM because the one my husband and I belonged to had lost its GM (or he lost us, we're not sure because he just stopped posting and disappeared). The kindly people of this list answered, and I was able to join not one, not two, but *three* PBEMs. By now, two of the three have faded as well. What is it about IN PBEMs that gives them such a short life? (I don't know about any others; IN is the only game I've played by e-mail.) Is it the players or the GMs or a combination? And can it be corrected? Janet Anderson (My husband is thinking about running a RuneQuest PBEM and he is interested in ideas on how to do it -- and how not to.) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:46:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: In> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun Douglas Muir writes: > The problem with this is that it's too powerful. If Heaven gets it, the > War is over. The angels can just zap every demon they meet, either > Redeeming or killing them. Well, As a McGuffin, I wanted to make something which would cause both sides to put intensive efforts to obtain or neutralize but would not imbalance the War too badly if one side got it. I believe Heaven already has one instant Redemption weapon so it wouldn't be warbreaker if another one was around, as long as it was unique. (The Canon instant Redemption Weapon is the Spear of Logoinus, found in the Liber Reliquium. I don't have my books with me, but I recall it has the power to redeem any demon struck by it when wielded by an angel. The TSPP has the advantage of range, and the fact it could be wielded by anyone.) > (Yah, sure, there's only one in existence... but if I were Laurence, I'd > tell Jean to put *all* his resources into reverse-engineering and > mass-producing it. In a few years, every reliever has one. End of War.) Well, for the purposes of using it in a campaign it would have to be unique and unable to be duplicated by Heaven (Unless of course you want to play a Final Conflict type thing). One reason might be that it uses rare and hard to obtain components. An idea I had is when Vapula created it he incorporated some of the Metatron's Forces. Lucifer had killed him, after all, so there's a chance his components were brought to Hell by him. It wouldn't be totally possible that Vapula found or given some and decided to see what he could make with them. And since there are no known Metatron bits in Heaven that should keep it from ending the War. > Still, the basic idea is kinda keen. > > How about this: if the demon fails its Will roll, it will get afflicted > with levels of Discord equal to the check digit of the zap-gun's roll. > This Discord will always be of the sort that tends to nudge the demon > towards Redemption. Selflessness will be the most common, but discords > that hamper the demon's effectiveness (like Mercy or Cowardice for a > Calabite, Stigmata or Obese for an Impudite, etc.) will pop up regularly. > The exact Discord is at the GM's discretion, but basically should reflect > the Symphony's effort to drag the demon back towards its original, unFallen > nature. I like it. It's still doing the same thing, but not all the way. If I were to use this option I'd change the device so that either way it stunned the Target for the shooter's CD in rounds, just so it would have some use in combat. In fact, I think if I used the original version I would have it stun for CD rounds instead of just one if a Demon made its Will Roll. > > If you like, you can say that on a check digit of 6, it hits with full > power and the target demon *must* Redeem or die on the spot. This could > explain how the Renegade zapped the Gamesters -- he got all three of them > with a lucky shot, and rolled a 6. Well, another limiting factor is that only one target could get hit at a time. But with the changes above this isn't a problem. Instead of killing the other two Gamesters it merely stunned them for a while, and the renegade got a 6 on the last one. The Redeemed, of course, got away from his fellows as soon as it realized what happened. Which might make the quest to capture the Renegade even more intense for Hell's side since it gives them a chance to figure out what exactly happened. > I'd say a point of Disturbance for every level of Discord it inflicts, > times the appropriate Forces of the demon. So, put 2 levels of Obesity on > a 3-Corp-Force Impudite, 6 disturbance. > > On a divine intervention, it'll redeem anything it hits, up to and > including a Prince. But on a 666, Lucifer is going to do something very, > very horrible to make sure that this never gets used again. Like incorporate the gun into your soul while leaving it on, so you can do nothing but experience the Complete and Utter Totality of the Symphony for the rest of Eternity (or until they drag you back to Heaven to do surgery on you. And of course, the gun is destroyed in the process. By the way, who would be the Surgeon General of Heaven?) Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:54:10 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Super High Stats Ryan Elias wrote: > (this thought was brought to you by a throwaway line from good omens to > the extent that Azirphale wasn't any smarter than your basic human, but > had the advantage of thousands upon thousands of years of experience) Coincidentally enough, that's _exactly_ the quote I used in the EPG. :) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:55:04 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> My Take of Yves Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Read the adventure in Liber Reliquarium. [...] > > Oh, gods, no, don't read it... It's waaaaaay... weird. Messed up. > I still don't recall seeing it before it was in print. Yes, you did. You commented on it. So did Steve. And heck, it ain't THAT bad, if you assume a low contrast game. In a higher contrast game, obviously it needs tweaking. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:03:39 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs Janet Anderson wrote: > What is it about IN PBEMs that gives them such a short life? (I don't know> about any others; IN is the only game I've played by e-mail.) Is it the> players or the GMs or a combination? And can it be corrected? I have run many games online (usually in a forum, rather than by straight e-mail). It takes a LOT of work to keep a game going, much more than you'd think. The GM is the lynchpin -- he has to be proactive, actively posting and maintaining player interest. Personally, I wouldn't bother doing a straight e-mail campaign; you'll have better luck using something like an RPG webforum, which not only helps build a sense of community so that the players actually know each other and chat outside the game, but allows the GM to post pictures, maps, vignettes and short stories, rules and setting materials, and other things to make the game more interesting and more complete. (For an example of my most successful online campaign, which is still running after almost 6 years, albeit at a very slow pace, see http://www.amadan.org/HDR/HDR.html) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:12:32 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Tsaydim part II-NPCs Note: special thanks to David Eldenstein's webpage: http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Uriel.htm#AZRAEL CHOIR Enoch Malakim Master of Purification Angel of Pure Thoughts Corporeal- Ineffable Ethereal - Ineffable Celestial- Ineffable Vessel: Human /6, Falcon /6 Artifacts: Sword of Purifying Flame /6 Armor (Corporeal /6), Shield (Corporeal /6) Skills: Ineffable Songs: Ineffable Attunements: Ineffable (believed to include all of Uriels and many of his own word) Rites: Slay an Ethereal*, Inspire a Human to abandon a mental crutch*, Meditate for three hours on how to improve one's mental focus* Oaths: (I) I shall not suffer an evil to live if it is my choice, (II) I shall never surrender to Hell or allow myself to be captured, (III) I will never harm a human being if not necessary, (IV) I will try to inspire all I meet to seek a higher state, (V) I will suffer no doubts to my cause, (VI) I will purify the marches of horrors * These Rites Enoch has awarded to most Tsaydim and the Slay an Ethereal rite is universal Appearence: Enoch the Angel of Pure Thought appears to be a elderly soldier in his fifties with grey hair yet a very strong and muscular form. He is always dressed in the decorative armor of a Knight of Purity that tells his history, momments of strength, and momments of weakness. His eyes are steal blue with a twinge of sadness and his face is often colored with concern and introspection. His shield is adorned with the symbol of Chio-Rio. Enoch's sword appears to be a broadsword that is twisted with a serpent around it in pain. Background: Enoch is the de-facto leader of the Tsaydim and nearly an Archangel in power (indeed he has teetered too and from that power level for some time). Orginally a Mercurian of Blandine who was devoted to protecting the still blugening humanity from the horrors it's fertile young mind was producing, Lucifer's rebellion sparked him to make the transformation from his current state to full fledged Malakite. Transferring his service from his mistress to Uriel, gradually his relationship with her cooled until the point that it broke completely when he was insturmental in planning the holocost (a word he truly loathes after the nightmares produced by the camps in the 40s and later purges) of the Ethereal menace. A soft spoken man who enjoys philosophy, prayer, meditation, and the various forms of military tactical games that mankind has made. Enoch seems a strange soldier for the fanatical seemingly mad group the Tsaydim has been painted. In truth Enoch has never nor ever intends to change his mind since the taking up of his word which represents making the right decision and keeping a clear righteous mind. Something he has never doubted since witnessing the many victories of the Tsaydim over mankind's nightmarish abominations. It is a hope someday of his that he can destroy Beleth and her forces and perhaps give his once mistress peace for her endless suffering and misguided mercy. Still all is not well with Enoch who has come to be a truly great planner but recognizes that the Hunters are lacking the necessary resources to put many of the plans that would make a difference in the War to great effect (against both Ethereals and Diabolicals). Among these plans include using humanity's dreamscapes to inspire men to their destinys, work to overcome great problems, and also make sweeping changes and reforms in the world by offering new perspective to those in power. His sword "Ourebeus" is a unique artifact that Gabriel gave him himself allowing for a past service allowing Enoch to release a huge fiery burst of flame that inflicts hideous damage as per a dragon's flametongue yet cannot harm the truly pure. Indeed it removes dissonance and discord with it's painful flame if the person in question is truly remorseful for it. Sylus Malakite Friend of the Pure Heart Corporeal- 5 Strength 12 Agility 8 Ethereal - 4 Intelligence 8 Precision 8 Celestial- 5 Will 12 Perception 8 Vessel: Human /4 Chr+3 Artifacts: Sword (Song of Thunder/4), Armor /5, Shield /3 Skills: Large Weapon /6 (Sword), Dodge /4, Fighting /4, Mythology 5/, Tactics /5, Tracking /5 Songs: Song of Attraction (Corporeal 4, Celestial 3), Song of Dream (All /4), Song of Healing (Celestial 5, Corporeal 4), Wings /5 Attunements: Malakite of Uriel, Olfalim of Uriel, Ripples, Purifying Flame, Friend of the Pure Heart, Burning Circle Rites: Slay an Ethereal, Slay an Impure Human, Meditate for three hours on how to improve one's mental focus, Spend the day tracking down a foe Oaths: (I) I shall not suffer an evil to live if it is my choice, (II) I shall never surrender to Hell or allow myself to be captured, (III) I will kill any Ethereal I find if it is my choice, (IV) I will kill any traitor to Heaven I find if it is my choice, (V) I will punish all sinners I find, (VI) I will suffer no deflamation to Uriel, (VII) I will seek to emaunate my savior Appearence: Few angels are as beutiful or unearthly as Sylus. His form as utterly gorgeous as any angel has a right to be; he is perfectly symetrical with long blonde hair, six digits on his right hand (by choice not discord), and nearing seven feet tall. His eyes reflect a absolute devotion that puts some of the most pious of Heaven's angels to shame and he dresses in finery that would have a number of pagans mistake him for a god. His armor is a crystaline beutious thing forged certainly with love by Uriel's master smiths in the height of the Roman Empire. Sylus is insane and the vast majority of people that meet him know it within the first minute of speaking to him. Created by Uriel during the height of the Roman Empire and sent routinely out with angels like Laurence (who was once his commander) to destroy demons and outcasts (which he relished doing with Dominic's triads). Sylus believed with all his heart that Uriel was the purest of God's creations and the Malakite form was the next stage in Celestial evolution (certainly superior to the falliable humanity). Uriel tolerated these conceits with only gentle chiding that God was perfect and thus his master in ways that even Uriel could not understand. While he was perhaps unhinged even then Sylus truly lost his mind during the Purity Crusade in which many of his closest friends and mentors gave their lives to protect a society utterly unworthy of their sacrafice. The trial Dominic was comtemplating of Uriel stung Sylus deeply and he considered Laurence and Dominic out and out betrayers of the Most High and Heavenly. It was only Uriel's ascension that kept Sylus from preparing with others to slaughter the Host who dared try and keep their master imprisoned. Sylus was among the first to join with Enoch to continue the Crusade. Sylus while he has accepted Enoch's leadership with as much grace as one can has won the support of many of the more fanatical (and greatly homesick angels) in the Tsaydim and Enoch is often hardpressed to control his charismatic young "advisor's excesses". It is whispered he set fire to a city while serving on a corporeal ethereal hunt because he was repulsed by what the humans were doing, this has yet to be confirmed and might be heresay...might. It is comming down to the possibility of a civil war among two un-discordant sides of the Tsaydim and the result may well determine the future of the sect depending how it (and where it) explodes. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:46:56 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs At 1:33 +0000 8/3/00, Janet Anderson wrote: >What is it about IN PBEMs that gives them such a short life? It's not specifically IN PBEMs, I'd say this is quite typical of PBEMs in general. I've been in a number, and probably about 50% of them have been non-starters; the remainder have run a year or two before disintegrating, I'd guess. > Is it the >players or the GMs or a combination? Can be either or both. As David observed, you need a pro-active GM to really keep things moving. Player "churn" is also a typical problem; the GM needs to be able to deal with players leaving and joining at what would be a rather high rate in a normal game (a few hours to days of game time, typically). > And can it be corrected? Hard to say. Like face-to-face gaming, it's probably best to have a group you know fairly well, and are likely to be committed to the game for what will probably be several years (or more) of real-time. Tolerance for slow progress is also a must. I'd also recommend a minimum turn commitment of more than once a week, ideally once every day or two. This keeps player interest up in something that otherwise moves rather slowly. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:14:59 -0500 From: "Michael Neal" Subject: Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Edelstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 10:03 PM Subject: Re: IN> The short life of PBEMs > I have run many games online (usually in a forum, rather than by > straight e-mail). It takes a LOT of work to keep a game going, much more > than you'd think. The GM is the lynchpin -- he has to be proactive, > actively posting and maintaining player interest. Personally, I wouldn't > bother doing a straight e-mail campaign; you'll have better luck using > something like an RPG webforum, which not only helps build a sense of > community so that the players actually know each other and chat outside > the game, but allows the GM to post pictures, maps, vignettes and short > stories, rules and setting materials, and other things to make the game > more interesting and more complete. Eh. This is probably off-topic, but I need to vent. As far as I can tell, it isn't just PBEMs. Quite simply, you need people that are willing to make a *commitment.* Yes, I seem to be on a run of PBEMs (not just IN, BTW) that can't keep going due to long gaps between postings. But I'm having the same trouble with my face-to-face games. My best friend just dropped the bombshell on me that he (as well as everyone else in our group, who were there and agreed) doesn't think that joining a game that is supposed to meet every other week is actually a commitment, since it's just a hobby. If something else comes up, so what? It's probably more difficult in a PBEM to get people to think of the game as something to which they have told people they'll be there, but the same basic problem exists. If people aren't willing to be there when they've said they will be, it won't work, regardless of format. Not that I'm bitter, or anything . . . J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:17:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Macklin Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Guy Royse wrote: > Perhaps there is no Essence regeneration on a daily basis and all > Essence is generated by Rites. This would certainly be a simple > solution to the problem. You would probably want to add extra Rites > for PCs if this were the case. Or maybe not. Perhaps starving the PCs > a little bit could be fun. In fact, starving the PCs a bit in a > conventional campaign this way could be fun as well. It could make > them think about their Word a bit more. Oooohh, I like this. You could also give one vague Rite, which is basicly "Support the Word", which would grant Essence ineffably. Even the Arch/Princes wouldn't quite have all the hard-n-fast rules for Essence, because it's from the Symphony/personal symphony. You could still reward with more Rites, which would come form the Superior rather than the collective pool of the Symphony. Maybe. It would leave Essence gaining (via Rites anyway) completely in the hands of ineffability (and therefore the GM, well, more so, without a mechanic attached to it) and might even provide for some comic relief. (Just imagine a servitor obsessing over the Word in a vain effort to get Essence) It would require "I merely exist to kill demons" Malakim to think more about the Word they serve, even War or the Sword, even if just a little bit. Or thrive without Essence-fueled goodies. - -- Rev. Ryan Macklin Shedite of Factions ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:20:15 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> Thoughts on Malakite Oaths Charles Phipps wrote: > > Okay I had In Nomine on the brain last night while I was going to sleep and > my thoughts wandered to the Malakite oaths...let me share some thoughts with > you. > > 1:) Suffer not an Evil to Live when it is my choice > > Obviously this seems to imply that if it weren't for Michael, God, Yves and > the other superiors then the Malakites would be descending on the Ethereal > marches slaughtering every nasty Ethereal before moving onto Earth for every > drug dealer, rapist, thief, and adulterer before finally culminating on the > big attack in Hell......(okay maybe causalty figures stay them in hopes of > slaying MORE evil). I have yet to believe that any human who isn't hellsworn could qualify as 'an evil'. Bad yes. Despicable defiantly but not evil from skin to marrow not even the majority of Hellsworn. Of course I usually run bright low contrast comic games so don't be bothered by me. Demons on the other hand... though it's really fascinating to hear David's Malakim go on about how being born in hell doesn't necessarily make on a demon. Odd group that one*. > However examing this oath I note that it is "suffer not an *evil*" to live > and I was curious if this might not make the Malakites the best redeemers in > Hell as they work to undo the base that causes evil moreso than life (the > issues). Of course it's much easier to bust heads....but probably less > effective in the long run. I wouldn't call 'm the best, but many are very good at doing just that. Though with creatures who have taken up arms against The Lord they don't really have any particular reason not to. > Another idea is does this oath apply to oneself? If a Malakim finds > something evil in himself does that mean he must remove it from himself > (Sloth, Greed, Pride, Wrath-if it's theres and not gods, Lust, Envy, > Gluttony) thus perhaps explaining why they don't Fall? Perhaps but note that it doesn't say an evil act or an evil person, just 'an evil'. One of the first things any malakim should do after fledging (or assigning character points) is decide how to interpret their oath. Matt Trent *Almost as odd as Seraphim of the Wind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:43:11 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: IN> Thoughts on Essence was(Re: In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream) > In a message dated 8/2/00 12:23:26 PM Central Daylight Time, groyse@yahoo.com > writes: > > << One thing that occurs to me in a space based In Nomine campaign that > could be a problem is Essence regeneration. When does it happen? > Which dawn? What if days are longer or shorter on other planets or the > planet is tidally locked and so never had a sunrise? I know this is > kinda twinkish, but it really is an important factor. >> Well, I'd say that the symphony beats to the time of it's one drum and that when a creature enters a region with a different back beat their essence regenerating capacity slowly moves to accommodate their new location. Sort of a Thermodynamics of Essence Regeneration. In regions where there is now natural rhythm your essence doses come more and more infrequently until they seem to stop completely. (lacking H&H I'm currently excluding Limbo). On planets with exceptionally fast rotations either the essence comes every fourth sunrise/sunset/midnight/noon as a result of the symphony playing eighth notes. Though it's possible that the beat isn't defined by the local star in all cases. In heaven it's quite possible that you generate essence at a rhythm that is defined by the echoes of the big bang ditto for hell. Matt Trent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:54:34 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> Thoughts on Essence was(Re: In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream) Matt Trent wrote: > Sort of a Thermodynamics of Essence Regeneration. In regions > where there is now natural rhythm your essence doses come more and more > infrequently until they seem to stop completely. Make that "...there is _no_ natural rhythm..." This is also the reason that both the Archangel of Space and the Demon Prince of the Void have the rite "Spend 25 hours in space/the void" Matt Trent Demon of Replying to Oneself ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 18:27:14 NZST From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> Habbalated There are rules for the emotions a Habbalah can inflict a person with in the Core Book. There are attunements that give the Habbalah the ability to inflict other emotional states upon a person. Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't this royally shaft the Habbalah on Attunements. Much like the Attunements of Fire (Gabriel) except for the Malakim one, these give the angel or *angel* the shaft. Habbalah can inflict ANY emotion on a human or celestial. As long as the emotion exists in the Symphony. Hate, Fear, Love, Disgust, Apathy, Happiness, Contentment... who cares. Why should it be that when an DP gives out an Attunement to a Habbalah they give them the ability to do what they can already acheive with their resonance. As for the Fire Attunements... well. I can detect the target of my Attunement on sight, yahoo. Most Angels if they followed someone around for a while would realise the target without the Attunement. Those Attunements are just extensions of Gabriel's dissonance restrictions. It is almost like Gabriel says to her new angels. "Here you go. You can now detect the X of cruel intentions within any human soul. By the way, you now have to punish them and the Attunement is in no way going to help you do that.... except for my Malakim, they get to kick ass with their Attunement. I'm sorry Mercurian if you don't use the Attunement you don't get Dissonance, but when you next see me flip this two headed coin. If it is heads you die, if it is heads you live. Welcome to the service of Fire." The downer of serving one of the ancient Archangels. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 01:47:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony > > The only thing that concerns me with doing the above > > is that, with a corporeal population in the > > quadrillions, Word-bound might be _insanely_ powerful. > > > > Any suggestions? > > Yeah. Assume that the Word-bound (except for Archangels and > Demon Princes) are limited to a single world. Orc is the > Angel of Earth's Networks, not the Angel of All Networks. How does that fit with canon? I mean, Orc didn't sign up for the Word of Earth's Networks... he is the Angel of Networks. (shrug) O. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 04:11:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: In> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun I mistakenly wrote: > I believe Heaven already >has one instant Redemption weapon so it wouldn't be warbreaker if another >one was around, as long as it was unique. (The Canon instant Redemption >Weapon is the Spear of Logoinus, found in the Liber Reliquium. I don't >have my books with me, but I recall it has the power to redeem any demon >struck by it when wielded by an angel. The TSPP has the advantage of >range, and the fact it could be wielded by anyone.) I must have a level of the forgetful discord. The artifact refered to is called The Holy Lance and is found on page 39 of Night Music, as one of the Relics of the Vatican. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 03:33:13 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Enanidah=20Kallai?= Subject: Re: IN> Habbalated - --- Alex Liddell wrote: > There are rules for the emotions a Habbalah can > inflict a person with in the > Core Book. There are attunements that give the > Habbalah the ability to > inflict other emotional states upon a person. > Forgive me if I am wrong, but > doesn't this royally shaft the Habbalah on > Attunements. Much like the > Attunements of Fire (Gabriel) except for the Malakim > one, these give the > angel or *angel* the shaft. I'm inclined to agree that Habbalah shouldn't need special attunements to inflict emotions - they have a nifty Resonance, but it hardly needs drastic downpowering compared to everyone else's. You /could/ limit them to only inflicting say emotions based on the Seven Deadly Sins or something for campaign reasons, but logically that kind of campaign would have other variations floating around in it too and once again it's in the realm of non canon. So, sticking to canon, I can't really see the sense in the limitation on the Habbalah. > > Habbalah can inflict ANY emotion on a human or > celestial. As long as the *snipping bit I totally agree with* > As for the Fire Attunements... well. Servitor Attunements vary drastically in usefulness and more than a few are extra Dissonance in disguise. I don't especially have a problem with that, and Gabriel has more excuse than most given her 'slightly' mucked up mental state. Giving her Servitors extra need to punish the cruel does kind of make sense to me. I can detect > the target of my > Attunement on sight, yahoo. I can see exactly who around this room is evil scum and needs fixing on sight - sounds blooming useful to me given the job Angels of Fire do. I'd prefer it if they got slightly more out of their Attunement, but just knowing where to start working seems very useful to me. Most Angels if they > followed someone around for > a while would realise the target without the > Attunement. There are an awful lot of Humans on Earth though - and Attunements as things that make an Angel's life easier seems valid to me. *snipping some more* By the way, you now have to punish them and > the Attunement is in no > way going to help you do that.... Given their job is basically to have a Human understand that what they are doing is wrong and/or to fix the mess said human has made.. And besides they are working in roughly similar areas and her expanded Servitor Attunements are rather useful. except for my > Malakim, they get to kick > ass with their Attunement. Ofanim of Fire also get a rather funky Attunement. I'm sorry Mercurian if > you don't use the > Attunement you don't get Dissonance, but when you > next see me flip this two > headed coin. If it is heads you die, if it is heads > you live. Welcome to > the service of Fire." > Umm - lost me here entirely sorry. > The downer of serving one of the ancient Archangels. Gabriel is mad you know... ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 08:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, O. S. Kerr wrote: > > Yeah. Assume that the Word-bound (except for Archangels and > > Demon Princes) are limited to a single world. Orc is the > > Angel of Earth's Networks, not the Angel of All Networks. > > How does that fit with canon? I mean, Orc didn't sign up for > the Word of Earth's Networks... he is the Angel of Networks. Well, yeah. But the game's default focus is Earth. There was no real reason to specify "Earth's Networks", because the default game doesn't go to any other world. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:16:48 -0300 (ADT) From: Philip Vincent Barkow Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Richard Gant wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, O. S. Kerr wrote: > > > > Yeah. Assume that the Word-bound (except for Archangels and > > > Demon Princes) are limited to a single world. Orc is the > > > Angel of Earth's Networks, not the Angel of All Networks. > > > > How does that fit with canon? I mean, Orc didn't sign up for > > the Word of Earth's Networks... he is the Angel of Networks. > > Well, yeah. But the game's default focus is Earth. There was no real > reason to specify "Earth's Networks", because the default game doesn't go > to any other world. A Word reflects a particular part of the Symphony. Unless other planets have their own Symphonies, a Word would be applicable on all planets. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Philip Vincent Barkow wrote: > > > > Yeah. Assume that the Word-bound (except for Archangels and > > > > Demon Princes) are limited to a single world. Orc is the > > > > Angel of Earth's Networks, not the Angel of All Networks. > > > > > > How does that fit with canon? I mean, Orc didn't sign up for > > > the Word of Earth's Networks... he is the Angel of Networks. > > > > Well, yeah. But the game's default focus is Earth. There was no real > > reason to specify "Earth's Networks", because the default game doesn't go > > to any other world. > > A Word reflects a particular part of the Symphony. Unless other planets > have their own Symphonies, a Word would be applicable on all planets. The original reason for this post was suggesting ways to prevent minor Word-bound from becoming obscenely powerful in an In Nomine sci-fi game. this is just one way to do it. Sure, Orc most likely *is* Angel of All Networks In The Entire Universe. However, if you wanted to limit him in a sci-fi game, my suggestion is the easiest way to do it. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:58:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Richard Gant wrote: > Sure, Orc most likely *is* Angel of All Networks In The Entire > Universe. However, if you wanted to limit him in a > sci-fi game, my suggestion is the easiest way to do it. Hm. I just thought of an interesting way for Jean to discover the emergence of high technology elsewhere in the universe. "Uh, sir, my Word just expanded again. Someone has invented computer networks in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud..." "Cross-check with the Angels of Chipped Flint and Blacksmithing, and get back to me with a background report." "Sir, I think they're on a gas giant. No flint. No iron." "Then cross-check with the Angels of Airfoils and Aerostats." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:03:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Prodigal wrote: > Then it occurred to me: Yves is the namer of things, just like Adam. What if > they are one and the same? Discuss. Yum. Discussion. Meaty. :) [Warning: this borrows heavily from my not-too-thoroughly-researched reading on the Kabbalah.] Adam is Yves in the same way that Yves is God. Yves is a reflection of God in the Celestial realm - In Nomine's equivalent of Adam Kadamon. He is the bridge between God and Humanity in the Symphony. (Incidentally, this also makes Yves an androgyne.) Adam is the reflection of Yves in the Corporeal realm. So is Eve (as an androgyne, Yves is both male and female - "he" served as the template for both). Interestingly enough this also Lilith a Corporeal reflection of Yves, which may explain why she can hold a Word while still being human. Kronos begins getting interesting at this point as well. He is In Nomine's equivalent of a kelippotic Adam Kadamon. This would allow for the possibility of a corrupted version of Adam and Eve having existed on the earth. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:21:40 -0700 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Gant To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:57 AM Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony > >On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Philip Vincent Barkow wrote: > >> > > > Yeah. Assume that the Word-bound (except for Archangels and >> > > > Demon Princes) are limited to a single world. Orc is the >> > > > Angel of Earth's Networks, not the Angel of All Networks. >> > > >> > > How does that fit with canon? I mean, Orc didn't sign up for >> > > the Word of Earth's Networks... he is the Angel of Networks. >> > >> > Well, yeah. But the game's default focus is Earth. There was no real >> > reason to specify "Earth's Networks", because the default game doesn't go >> > to any other world. >> >> A Word reflects a particular part of the Symphony. Unless other planets >> have their own Symphonies, a Word would be applicable on all planets. > >The original reason for this post was suggesting ways to prevent minor >Word-bound from becoming obscenely powerful in an In Nomine sci-fi game. >this is just one way to do it. Sure, Orc most likely *is* Angel of All >Networks In The Entire Universe. However, if you wanted to limit him in a >sci-fi game, my suggestion is the easiest way to do it. Here's an alternative idea: If Networks start growing beyond Earth, then that would mean Orc has more and more worlds to cover. So he gets some subbordinates of his own, assigned by Jean: the angel of Earth's Networks, the angel of Mars' Networks, the angel of Rigel-4's Networks, and so on... All of them under the supervirsion, the Angel of Networks. That's what really happens when someone does well in a company; they get promoted and assigned some helpers to expand their division. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1754 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.