From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 3 21:46:55 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA30017 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:46:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA17929 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:45:17 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:45:17 -0500 Message-Id: <200008040245.VAA17929@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1756 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1756 In this digest: Re: IN> Super High Stats Re: IN> Hi Re: IN> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun IN> The Redemption Gun Re: IN> Super High Stats Re: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) Re: IN> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun IN> Angels in Space Re: IN> Hi RE: IN> Hi RE: IN> Hi RE: IN> Hi Re: IN> Hi Re: IN> Hi Re: IN> Hi Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Re: IN> Habbalated IN> mundane character sheet Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony IN> Faith and The Sword ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:04:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Super High Stats Charles Phipps wrote: > How does one exactly play/represent the super high stats that > Celestials may possess? In the home-brewed rules set my gaming group uses, we have a skill called "Holmesian Inference," meaning you've learned to reason like Sherlock Holmes. On the rare occasions when we've used it, the player makes their roll and, if they're successful, they look expectantly at the GM. Super intelligence in a celestial could be gamed similarly. If you feel that, if you were only smart enough, you could extract SOMETHING useful from this mass of detail, or calculate quickly enough, or dig something out of your vast experience, make the Intelligence roll and look expectantly at the GM. "Okay, I'm not that smart, but my Elohite is. And you know the Right Answer(tm). Which is...?" Earl ------------------------------ Date: 3 Aug 2000 20:10:35 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Hi On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 18:44:38 +0100 Omentide wrote: >The problem with the way you want to use it (if I'm getting the hang of >your ideas right) is the absence of the watery principle in canon. Which >of the Archangels should guard the West? Following my own traditions >(Qabalistic), I'd want to put Gabriel there, but the fire stuff implicit in >canon prevents me. Qabalistically you have Michael (fire) in the South, >Uriel (Earth) in the North, Raphael (air) in the East and Gabriel (Water) >in the West. East is the entrance, West is the exit. South fights off >unwanted intrusions, North 'earths' whatever takes place within the >circle. An oversimplification and, probably, arguable (in a different forum). well, bearing in mind my lack of schooling in Qaballah, for adapting it to In Nomine, you could say that Michael is water (imagine soldiers washing over foes like oceans, crushing the foe beneath them; also remember Michael as patron of the Hebrews, and water in Isreal is sacred for its scarcity). Raphael being currently dead, you could give the position of air to Janus (it fits well enough, as far as i can see. -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: 3 Aug 2000 20:16:04 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:02:16 -0500 (CDT) Benjamin Acosta wrote: >Kevin P Meares writes: >Incidently, if it did up in Heaven's hands, who should get it? Laurence >has his his Sword. Michael has his Axe. Zadkiel has her Shield. Which >Archangel's personal style meshes the best with The Redemption Gun as his >or her signiture item? Janus. change, baby, change! :) -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:27:27 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Redemption Gun Not to mention this artifact can also backfire if Vapula (as a Habbalite) does some tweaking towards it. Realizing that the Redemption gun has a few bugs in it to work out...I think that it with some forces of some of the Lilim, Impudites, or Habbalah grafted to it; he might just be able to transform it's purification works into something alittle more....distasteful to Heaven. The Corruption RayTM Which would fracture the forces of any angel that it strikes causing whatever trouble is inside their souls to magnify in the form of discord. Angels who are naturally epicurian will find their gluttony growing grossly out of proportion, same with lust, and envy etc. So presumably he believes that he might be able to "reverse engineer" his own prodject for something much nastier...perhaps he can even spend the next few thousand years building a giant cannon to aim at Heaven....Vapula's like that you know. Personally the Redemption Gun won't work really well for Jean because he can't stand the idea of wielding something Hellborn but I could imagine after a good examination of the thing he'll let Heaven have it and I can imagine it becomming part of Janus's reporitrie (a way of thumbing his nose at conventionality) Otherwise it'll be in a vault marked "dangerous" for the next billion years. (Since it looks like a toy gun Christopher might also be a good choice) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: sw@haven.eyrie.org Subject: Re: IN> Super High Stats > Charles Phipps wrote: > > > How does one exactly play/represent the super high stats that > > Celestials may possess? > > In the home-brewed rules set my gaming group uses, we have a > skill called "Holmesian Inference," meaning you've learned to > reason like Sherlock Holmes. On the rare occasions when we've > used it, the player makes their roll and, if they're successful, > they look expectantly at the GM. > > Super intelligence in a celestial could be gamed similarly. > If you feel that, if you were only smart enough, you could > extract SOMETHING useful from this mass of detail, or calculate > quickly enough, or dig something out of your vast experience, > make the Intelligence roll and look expectantly at the GM. > "Okay, I'm not that smart, but my Elohite is. And you > know the Right Answer(tm). Which is...?" On the other hand, this can be really rather annoying, as it turns role-playing into roll-playing. If someone playing an intelligent character were generally fairly smart, but had managed to genuinely miss some crucial inference or something by wandering off on a tangent, I might (were I the GM) give them a roll to catch their error. On the other hand, often it's more effective to simply drop hints - or casually imply that they might have missed something. Often this is enough to kick a smart player into a different gear... Someone who actually did what you describe above would (were I the GM) likely be discretely denied the opportunity to play characters with Reasoning And Experience Far Above That Of Mortal Men the next game around... Then again, I've never had players in any game stop and look at me expectantly. This is because whenever they do that, I suspect they've gotten bored, and it's time to spin the Wheel of Unfortunate, Embarassing And Highly Entertaining Random Events. But then, I guess I don't really *like* the concept of Uber-Intelligence. It tends to lead to players complaining that their character wouldn't be dumb enough to do the horribly foolish thing they (the player) just chose to do. Just like you should never, ever let someone whose sole experience with computers was watching _The Matrix_ once play a supremely l33t h@x0r type. You end up just wanting to smack them in the head. So, on balance, I guess I wasn't very helpful at all on this topic, was I. But what do you want from me? I'm evil! EVIL! - --JT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 21:46:43 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) >I think it's more like expressing Yves as the entire Tree of Life, if I >understand Adam Kadamon correctly. If I had to pick a single Sephirot >that he corresponded to, however, I think I'd make it Daat (Knowledge, >which isn't really a Sephirot in the same way that Yves isn't really an >Angel). I'd have problems with Yves on Daath. Might be the way I was taught Qabalah. I always liked the 'Daath fell and became Malkuth' hypothesis. Or maybe I tend to over-rate Yves due to my own addiction to libraries... I guess I still rather like my Yves/Chokmah idea and tend to see Adam Qadmon (excuse my spelling, I used to be addicted to gematria, though I reckon I'm recovering) as the 'ideal template' for humanity. The ideal template to which humanity failed to live up because humanity is MORE than whoever created it planned for... I will have to think about Daath... >Hmmm... An "In Nomine Qabalah" could be interesting. How do these >correspondences sound? > >Keter - Laurence (formerly Michael) [?] >Hokhmah - Jean >Binah - Raphael (Deceased) >(Daat) - Yves >Hesed - Novalis >Gevurah - Dominic >Tiferet - [?] >Nezah - Janus >Hod - [?] >Yesod - David >Malkhut - Eli My version (heavily tentative) Kether - Uriel since his ascension? Chokmah - Yves Binah - Dominique Chesed - ? Laurence (Ashley says Gabriel) Gevurah - Gabriel (Ashley says Michael) Tiphareth - Eli Netzach - Novalis maybe Jordi, probably both Hod - Jean Yesod - Blandine Malkuth - David Ashley is saying Gabriel for Chesed and Michael for Gevurah, which is definitely arguable. Could be no more than a gender difference thing - looking in different directions. Both of us think the 'higher' ones are more difficult to assign. Canon tends to have a levelling aspect that doesn't fit well with the Tree. Chesed was probably the hardest for me to assign. Binah is very arguable as it's one of those things In Nomine tends to leave out, Ashley suggests putting Dominic on Daath. The whole game has serious problems with water and Binah equates with the primal oceans (amongst other things), also with strong feminine stuff (which IN also tends to lack). Things were almost certainly different in the days before the Rebellion. So, if I was going to do Daath, it would probably be Lucifer. I may have used the wrong word when I called Yves an androgyne. What I >meant is someone who is both male and female simultaneously. The way I >see it, angels have no sex, while Yves has both. ?Difference between alchemical silver and alchemical gold? >Incidentally, I would have correlated the Corporeal with the world of >Assiyah, not just the sephirot of Malkhut. Yup, but I don't want to be correlating 40 superiors! Blandine/Beleth and the Ethereals have the Marches stitched, which is probably all you need to say about Yetzirah, and I don't think you can really expect any game to go further than that. Either you have to look at the whole 'game tree' being the tree in Assiyah or you do the Malkuth/Yesod/Hod/Netzach/Tiphareth =corporeal, Tiphareth/Chesed/Gevurah = Ethereal and Chesed/Binah/Kether =Celestials trick, in which case the assignation of Superiors to sephiroth tends to break down. Ultimately, In Nomine is a game world and Qabalah is a belief system and/or an attempt to describe the Universe (including bits of the universe that are hidden from humanity). >Alternately, assuming that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of the entire >human race, the "fragment" of Yves means that all human beings have a >touch of divinity in them, making them "embryonic gods". Despite the >seeming handicap of the 15-Force ceiling for humans, every member of the >human race has the potential to become something *much* greater than even >the most powerful Archangel. Is that why humanity is the focus of the war? I think so. In Nomine implicity concedes that every man, every woman and every child is a Star. Possibly it's the Destiny within them that makes them potentially bright. A broken reflection of Adam and Eve would make for something >interesting in a campaign, however. Kronos attempts to create a second >(or third) breed of humanity as a reflection of himself. The idea is to >use them to nudge humanity as a collective towards it's Fate, tipping the >scales of the War in the favor of Hell. Umm. My own Grand Campaign was leading towards the nature of Kobal's ultimate joke. I have my own theory as to the punchline... >According to the timeline, Kronos came into existence after the Fall. >Maybe the corruption of Adam and Eve (even just a little) is what >*created* Kronos. What I was hinting at. I think, it this gets more technical, we might ought to take it off list. Hilary Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:46:25 -0400 From: "A.Hamilton" Subject: Re: IN> Artifact/McGuffin: The Redemption Gun > My vote's for one of the Ofanim, Gabriel or Janus. Neither of them have > any great findness for demons, and this thing deals with demons in a right > quick manner. The ones that get redeemed are either saved from their own > cruelty or pushed to change their entire existence, depending on your > point of view. Novalis. To keep the War party from running around shooting everything willy-nilly and potentialy losing Demons that might later Redeem if they hadn't been Zapped!. > Matt A.Hamilton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:02:21 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Angels in Space Just some thoughts on this... 1:) Changes to the Heirachy Jean, Janus, Gabriel, and David More or less will take on more importance as humanity takes note of their words more....after all the Sun is a fireball, Solar Winds (and Space Traver), Electricity of course covers much more, and David is every planetoid now and not just the Earth. Marc, Eli, Michael, Laurence, Christopher, Khalid and Yves More or less remain unchanged because they're words are so adapatble to the new frontiers. Khalid and Laurence will of course do their best to remain strong on Faith for huge new worlds and populations and will likely try to set up colonial theocracies. Dominic, Novalis, Jordi, Litheroy, and Zadkiel However will remain the most changed by all this as Dominic discovers a massive "New Frontier" campaign that requires his servitors to establish laws and work to build up a united government front for all the world. His servitors spend a great deal of time hunting down crimminals U.S. Marshall style now. Novalis having alittle difficulty keeping flowers as symbols of peace ad harmony discovers the alienness of plantlife and the ideas of terraforming are perfect for forming Utopian civilizations. Green houses become her mode of transport and she gains Laurence's respect for her architectual achievements. Jordi with lots of essence begins breeding WEEIRD looking critters and some angels suspect entirely new races in preperation for the time humanity will be displaced...or meet them and learn new respect for life. Novalis is helping him. Zadikiel meanwhile is the Angel in Space type gal....when your out of oxygen, your AI Hal goes insane, or your crashlanded her servitors come to you Celestially to rescue you or lead folks towards you to save your butt. She handles Medicine units, Charity Trauma Doctoring, and volenteer militias. Litheroy absolutely loves space because it's the perfect excuse to do 2001 type scenarios and play with humanity's sense that anything is possible to let rip some REAL truths. He's responsible for most of the scouting in the galaxy and "galactic archaelogy". Down South... Andre, Asmodeus, Kronos, Haagenti, and Kobal are more or less unchanged by everything about themselves and frankly are alittle annoyed by the whole "Big deal" nature of space and the like. Belial, Saminga, Baal are actually alligned now as fast as you can say "Death Star". Space plagues, astreroids dropped onto planets, and huge warships are all the type of things these people are thinking about and it's a great time to be alive...or not....all agree this stuff could finally put the Kabosh on Heaven. Alaemon and Valephor love the new vastness because it is a great way to hide crimminals, treasures, and god knows what else. Space piracy is making a come back. Malphus has gotton more powerful because worlds ceding from planets is all too easy, like in any age of exploration it divides places....but this is potentially an infinite age of growth for his word. A new Mariel is destined to happen. Fufur likely has been weakened and destroyed like Demogorgon because while asteroids hitting shuttles is hardcore the quiet serenity of space is a royal kick in the privates to his word. Nybbas and Vapula are most disturbing to Heaven because the pair don't seem to be actively doing ANYTHING anymore to humanity. Both are currently concentrating on humanity's booming technology and while Valpula will still arm the Unholy Trio of War (see above), they're currently concentrating on making space acessible to the world. Nybbas indeed dreams of uniting the galaxy with holonet, news, networks, and bringing the galaxy together...he may be teetering towards rising indeed by his love of communication. Ethereals Cthulhu and a whole big assortment of new gods have become more dangerous to the Marches than the Old Ethereals For all sides Planets now have Words in the fashion of the Roman Gods with an Angel of Jupiter, Mars, Earth, etc coordinating things much as patrons of religeons once existed and cities. By tradition most are David's servitors but a number have won their own from other groups...especially when the planet's inhabitants are bent on an aspect of life. The angelic and hellish host is WAAAAAY bigger now. The number of humans in Heaven/hell has skyrocketed empowering both sides. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin P Meares Subject: Re: IN> Hi Just A thoughts folks but canon is ultatmitely what ever the GM says is canon. Thats a basic founding principle of role playing games. If you don't like that one of the archs is associated with some thing change it to what you want. Thats basicly the core of what I'm doing. Michael in myth, legend and the bible is ultamitely the consumate warrior. Hes the one who cast Lucifer out of Heaven, he's the patron saint of soldiers, police officers, disease, and exorcists. The principle thing that makes Michael what he is his unwavering dedication to honor and principle. The diference between him and a demon is he fights by his ethics and Gods law where a demon fights by any low, underhanded trick a demon can. Thats the Michael I'm trying to bring back. The ultamite Galahad strong, fearless, intensely dedicated and honorable not the border line outcast hes made out to be. Gaberiel is a lot different. Gaberiel is ultamitely the incarnation of God's word. He follows a plan only he really understands and acts based soley on that plan. Hes not crazy just ruthless and dedicated. Michael fights because he loves God, loves goodness and loves humans Gaberiel fights because he sees what he does as part of a grander scheme. There very different from In Nomine yes but thats ultamitely more accurate to there natures(I may not be an expert on angelology but if you study enough demonology you pick stuff up). ===== http://the_master_2.tripod.com/mywebpage/ my home page(under construction) http://www.demonologyresearch.com the web site of the dvdr that I am a member of Love seeketh not Itself to please, Nor for itself hath any care; But for another gives its ease, And builds a Heaven in Hell's despair. William Blake The Clod and the Pebble __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:18:48 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Hi I don't mean to pick nits, but as someone who spends virtually all of his In Nomine time dealing with the books and none with a campaign, I'm reluctant to let this pass. I've recently noticed the term canon being used to mean "What the GM has decided for their campaign." That's not what it means. The canon is the books and the information that comes out of them. Canon means, to extract one meaning from GuruNet.com, "The works of a writer that have been accepted as authentic: the entire Sherlock Holmes canon." So, canon _isn't_ what the GM has decided. Canon is what _SJG_ has decided and published. I'm not sure we have a seperate term that means "What the GM wants in their world." We may need one. But it _isn't_ "canon". My apologies for even the appearance of nitpicking, but we need to defend the correct meaning of words with important and precise meanings or we risk losing the ability to refer to said concepts. steve - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin P Meares [mailto:KMeares@rocketmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 3:12 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Hi Just A thoughts folks but canon is ultatmitely what ever the GM says is canon. Thats a basic founding principle of role playing games. If you don't like that one of the archs is associated with some thing change it to what you want. Thats basicly the core of what I'm doing. Michael in myth, legend and the bible is ultamitely the consumate warrior. Hes the one who cast Lucifer out of Heaven, he's the patron saint of soldiers, police officers, disease, and exorcists. The principle thing that makes Michael what he is his unwavering dedication to honor and principle. The diference between him and a demon is he fights by his ethics and Gods law where a demon fights by any low, underhanded trick a demon can. Thats the Michael I'm trying to bring back. The ultamite Galahad strong, fearless, intensely dedicated and honorable not the border line outcast hes made out to be. Gaberiel is a lot different. Gaberiel is ultamitely the incarnation of God's word. He follows a plan only he really understands and acts based soley on that plan. Hes not crazy just ruthless and dedicated. Michael fights because he loves God, loves goodness and loves humans Gaberiel fights because he sees what he does as part of a grander scheme. There very different from In Nomine yes but thats ultamitely more accurate to there natures(I may not be an expert on angelology but if you study enough demonology you pick stuff up). ===== http://the_master_2.tripod.com/mywebpage/ my home page(under construction) http://www.demonologyresearch.com the web site of the dvdr that I am a member of Love seeketh not Itself to please, Nor for itself hath any care; But for another gives its ease, And builds a Heaven in Hell's despair. William Blake The Clod and the Pebble __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:16:53 -0500 From: Christopher Gerkey Subject: RE: IN> Hi > From: Steven Feldon [mailto:sfeldon@MICROSOFT.com] > and published. I'm not sure we have a seperate term that > means "What the GM > wants in their world." We may need one. But it _isn't_ "canon". "IMC". HTH, Topher ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:28:38 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Hi Except I was referring to the GM in the abstract. IMC works if the GM is _me_, but what if I'm referring to the choices that each and every GM makes? "Campaign reality" expresses the idea that I'm looking for. . . . steve - -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Gerkey [mailto:CGerkey@participate.com] Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 3:17 PM To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' Subject: RE: IN> Hi > From: Steven Feldon [mailto:sfeldon@MICROSOFT.com] > and published. I'm not sure we have a seperate term that > means "What the GM > wants in their world." We may need one. But it _isn't_ "canon". "IMC". HTH, Topher ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 23:40:39 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Hi Jumping in by Ashley >Qabalistically you have Michael (fire) in the South, > >Uriel (Earth) in the North, Raphael (air) in the East and Gabriel (Water) > >in the West. East is the entrance, West is the exit. South fights off > >unwanted intrusions, North 'earths' whatever takes place within the > >circle. An oversimplification and, probably, arguable (in a different > forum). > well, bearing in mind my lack of schooling in Qaballah, for > adapting it to In Nomine, you could say that Michael is water (imagine > soldiers washing over foes like oceans, crushing the foe beneath them; > also remember Michael as patron of the Hebrews, and water in Isreal is > sacred for its scarcity). Raphael being currently dead, you could give > the position of air to Janus (it fits well enough, as far as i can see. Or (and Hilary will probably object on Qaballah terms), but it kind of works for IN Fire (South) Gabriel Earth (North) David Air (East) Janus Water (West) Blandine Though thinking about it, if I were playing an IN character (presumably human) who could do this sort of thing, I think I would want slightly more stability and protection from the south. Gabriel is way too insane to take station and hold it. Michael seems a better choice - there is enough fire in his nature to serve the purpose. Of course I am sure Dominic would have an opinion on whatever took place within the circle and the aspects/roles of certain AA's who took up station. Ashley Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 23:52:23 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Hi >well, bearing in mind my lack of schooling in Qaballah, for adapting it to >In Nomine, you could say that Michael is water (imagine soldiers washing >over foes like oceans, crushing the foe beneath them; also remember >Michael as patron of the Hebrews, and water in Isreal is sacred for its >scarcity). Logic here, yes. Qabalistic logic, no. Doesn't work. Michael is more or less the antithesis of alchemical water. I can drop my 'normal' philosophy to play a game, but Michael, in In Nomine, is about as liquid as a brick wall. Water yields. It adapts its shape to the shape of what contains it. Not very Seraph, really. Water is probably a cherub. Hence Blandine. >Raphael being currently dead, you could give the position of air to Janus >(it fits well enough, as far as i can see. Yup. I was thinking along much the same lines while eating dinner. Janus and Jean are both aspects of Air. If Raphael were still around, quite possible they would serve under him. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:27:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin P Meares Subject: Re: IN> Hi Ok I think people are slightly missing my original point. I'm not interested in fitting current arch angels into ancient concepts. The point I"ve been trying to make is I'm interested in setting things up according to christian angelology. In christian angelology there are 7 principle arch angels. Four of these are drawn from texts Michael, Gaberiel, Ariel(also called Uriel) and Raphael. The other 3 depend on who you ask. Michael is ultamitely the highest ranking angel second to God alone. He is prince of the heavenly host and the leader in battle. What I was looking for advice on(and still am) is A recreating Raphael and Uriel for In Nomine terms, B to help sort out the other 3, C some help with ideas regarding the demons, and C help building an Azrael(I didn't really like the one some one pointed out to me to be honest). Although by no means am I telling people to stop other conversations under the same heading(I don't have any authority let alone desire to do that) I just wanted to clarify exactly what I had meant. ===== http://the_master_2.tripod.com/mywebpage/ my home page(under construction) http://www.demonologyresearch.com the web site of the dvdr that I am a member of Love seeketh not Itself to please, Nor for itself hath any care; But for another gives its ease, And builds a Heaven in Hell's despair. William Blake The Clod and the Pebble __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:28:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony - ------------------------------Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:51:16 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony >> Here's an alternative idea: If Networks start >>growing beyond Earth, then that would mean Orc has >>more and more worlds to cover. So he gets some >> subbordinates of his own, assigned by Jean: the >>angel of Earth's Networks, the angel of Mars' >>Networks, the angel of Rigel-4's Networks, and so >>on... All of them under the supervirsion, the Angel >>of Networks. >> That's what really happens when someone does well >>in a company; they get promoted and assigned some >>helpers to expand their division. >Yes and if Networks becomes that important... >You get you own corner office in the new split-off >company with its own Cathedral. >The Other David Bingo. I like the idea of "subdividing Words", as well as promoting some familiar faces to Superior level, so that's probably what I'll do. Thanks to everyone's suggestion on this sub-issue. :) Moe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony > Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:47:45 -0500 > From: Earl Wajenberg > Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear > You Disturb The Symphony > > Maurice Lane wrote: > > > Has anyone played around with a future, > multi-world IN > > campaign? I'm planning to actually run some kind > of > > IN campaign Real Soon Now, and I'm toying with the > > idea of doing something _odd_. Galactic empires > sound > > about right. > > Any suggestions? > > Two suggestions: > > First-- > > Use GURPS Lenman as a source. Definite possibilities there, though I'll be going for less of the "throw the planet at the bad guys" approach, I think. :) > > Second-- > > Split Superiors into two levels, cosmic and local. > Cosmic > Superiors are the more abstract or elemental ones -- > Yves, > Michael, Gabriel, Janus, David, Jean. Jordi and > Novalis could > go either way; they could be cosmic, or there could > be analogs > for them on any life-bearing planet. Cosmic > Superiors tend to > be decidedly more ineffable and (in that way) > Yves-like, while > local ones are more like great big Word-bound. > > This needn't make any difference to game mechanics; > it just > helps give a more wide-open feel to the cast, I > think. > > Earl I like this (and your later suggestions on this theme), but I don't know if I can pull it off. I wouldn't mind _playing_ in it at all, but _GMing_ it may be difficult. :) Morgan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:20:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: >> The only thing that concerns me with doing the above >> is that, with a corporeal population in the >> quadrillions, Word-bound might be _insanely_ >>powerful. >Nah. >The strength of a Word can be summed up by the >following question: >"How important is this Word, compared to all others, >to Humanity?" >In other words, it's a RELATIVE thing. >But in no way does "More Humans" equal "More Word >Power".- -- >Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! True, but "More Humans" _does_ equal "More Essence". Lots and lots of lovely Essence, out there for celestials and ethereals to batten on ... I mean, "collect". And you can do _so_ much with Essence ... :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:53:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream - ------------------------------Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Guy Royse Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream >Do you have any thoughts on extra-terrestials and >perhaps their effects on the Marches? Or the Far >Marches? >Guy The entire issue of aliens will be a tough one. As I see it, there are several choices: 1) No aliens at all. Humanity is it. Requires almost no tweaking, but I'd find it boring. 2a) Aliens, but they've got their own celestials, ethereals, and so forth. The Host (and the Legion) was as shocked as anyone else to find out that their celestial plane isn't the only celestial plane. Amusing, but the questions it raises are pretty complex (and _I'd_ have to answer them). That "ethereal Yahweh" theory gets a shot in the arm. 2b) Aliens, and they're tied into the entire Heaven/Hell scheme. Simple, but it does beg the question, "So why haven't they shown up in Heaven or Hell before?" (I'll get away with it, 'cuz I'll be recruiting newbies to play, hopefully, but it is a stylistic hole). I may run with this one anyway, because it occurs to me that other races might find certain Choirs to fit in with their mindset in the same way that Mercurians do with homo sapiens. That'd be neat. In any of the above, the ethereals should get some pressure taken off of them. Lots more people and planets = lots more Essence to sustain them. The Host will back off a bit, especially if ET ethereal pantheons show up into the mix.* Morgan *This is a bedrock, no question about it, I-wanna-do-it-and-I'm-the-GM-so-phbbbth, given in the campaign that I plan to run, NOT necessarily the most (or even highly)likely result. Some things I want to do require a tacit truce in the Crusade. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:53:34 NZST From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Habbalated I'm sorry Mercurian if > > you don't use the > > Attunement you don't get Dissonance, but when you > > next see me flip this two > > headed coin. If it is heads you die, if it is heads > > you live. Welcome to > > the service of Fire." Yeah I think I did lose people here. I meant that with Gabriel and her instability you can do anything with a chance involved and no matter what the result it is still up to her what to do with you. Roll a dice, 1-3 you live 4-6 you die. With Gabriel it is 1-6 you live or die depending on my mood at the time. Flip a 2 headed coin, if it is heads you live, if it is heads you die... welcome to the service of fire. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:51:30 +0800 (PST) From: "Angelo Bautista (Wyrm Puff)" Subject: IN> mundane character sheet No, I don't mean that character sheets are mundane... hmmm... mostly. My question is; is there an available electronic format, preferably PDF, of any character sheet made specifically for mortals, i.e. mundanes, soldiers, etc.? I don't have the Corporeal Player's Guide, but I'm getting it soon (just ordered) so I don't know if it had its own character sheets. Ummm... if there are available 'mortal' character sheets, can anybody give me a link? Thanks. - -- Angelo Bautista (Wyrm Puff) =========================================================================== Wyrm Puff's Lair http://www.geocities.com/wyrm_puff/ A.E.G.I.S. Web Page http://aegis.web.ph/ =========================================================================== "ALEA IACTA EST" - Julius Caesar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:01:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 11:28:38 -0500From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony >Yesterday, I think it was, I recommended splitting >the Superiors intotwo ranks, local and cosmic. Here's >some elaboration on that. As I said earlier, I'm thinking about this. I may not be able to pull it off, but i'm thinking about it. :) >The fallen opposite of an Aeon is an Archon, by the >way. And is Belial an envoy of an Archon of Fire >(and Gabriel is nuts from Word-friction all over the >universe)? Or is he a local non-envoy (and envoys of >Fire on other worlds are mostly sane)? Actually that's a non-issue for this hypothetical campaign (which is currently under attack by another Real Weird Idea, BTW). While I understand and appreciate the drama and plot potentials that arise from the Gabriel/Belial conflict, and I realize that it will likely never be resolved (and should _not_ be resolved) in canon, I'm of the "simple problem, simple solution" school, and see no reason why I should not permit myself the indulgence of putting a metaphorical bullet through Belial's diseased brainpan*. YMMV. It's a matter of personal GM taste, and not a reflection on canon or those who like having Belial around. We all have these little quirks, and I can be just as irrational as anybody else. If not more so. :) Morgan *I like to do it so much, in fact, that I find an excuse to do it in every meta-campaign idea I come up with... ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 14:44:35 NZST From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> Faith and The Sword Question. Who ever said that Faith was exclusive to Muslim? Khalid is an Elohite is he not. Subjectivity is like a slap in the face to them. I think they missed that a little bit in The Final Trumpet. They seemed to put Khalid's Fall in terms of him loosing Faith in God and his Word rather than his Elohite nature of remaining impartial and ultimately objective. I would like to hear some thoughts on Khalid with regard to his "one eyed" nature of God and the Superior opinions of him. I think an Elohite is a bad choice for the Word of Faith. A Mercurian would be much better as would a Malakim. I guess they needed another Elohite Archangel, Jean gets lonely after all being the only Power Archangel on the Council. Faith is a powerful word, one that you would think Laurence would be all over like a rash, the same with Dominic and Michael. They all are strict advocates of Faith in the Almighty yet it seems that they let petty political differences get in the way of being Khalid's best friend. Khalid himself is guilty of a little envy in Laurence. David has the right idea I'm afraid. "So Laurence gets to lead? Tough luck, suck it up and deal with it. He almost Fell, so what? What doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. That goes the same with Who doesn't kill you as well." The thing is that Elohim have to remain Objective, but they don't get dissonance for being subjective. Only for letting their EMOTIONS influence their actions. I guess in that way I just answered my own question... or did I? God help me I'm just not that bright. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1756 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.