From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Aug 4 10:23:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17504 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:23:38 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA16192 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:21:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:21:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200008041521.KAA16192@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1757 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, August 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1757 In this digest: Re: IN> mundane character sheet Re: IN> Habbalated Re: IN> Gaming in general [Was:The short life of PBEMs] Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Re: IN> Hi Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Re: IN> Angels in Space Re: IN> Hi IN> Khalid and Faith (was Sword and Faith) Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Re: IN> New Fire Attunements (was re: Habbalated) Re: IN> Angels in Space IN> IN Cover Re: IN> mundane character sheet Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> IN in NZ Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Re: IN> IN Cover Re: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) IN> Ideas for PBEMs [Was:The short life of PBEMs] Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream IN> "Plundering the Bible" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:03:20 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> mundane character sheet At 9:51 AM +0800 08/04/00, Angelo Bautista (Wyrm Puff) wrote: > My question is; is there an available electronic format, preferably PDF, > of any character sheet made specifically for mortals, i.e. mundanes, > soldiers, etc.? Yes. > I don't have the Corporeal Player's Guide, but I'm getting it soon (just > ordered) so I don't know if it had its own character sheets. No, it doesn't. But it's still a good book regardless. >Ummm... if there are available 'mortal' character sheets, can anybody >give me a link? Angelo, try: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/charsheets/ On the main page, you'll find the ordinary-mundane Character Sheet and the Undead Sheet. If you follow the Infernal/Angelic Specific links, you'll find the Soldier sheets for the respective sides. They are in .pdf format, and you'll need Adobe Acrobat 3.0 or higher to view them. They are 'unofficial' character sheets that are on the 'official' website, because I didn't want to deal with SJGames Legal*. I already have enough problems trying to get the ArchDean her 10% cut. (* My Word is 'Delusions of Granduer', and not 'Blatant Self-Promotion' ya see. };;;>) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 19:59:36 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Habbalated Alex Liddell wrote: > Roll a dice, 1-3 you live 4-6 you die. With Gabriel it is 1-6 you live or > die depending on my mood at the time. Flip a 2 headed coin, if it is heads > you live, if it is heads you die... welcome to the service of fire. I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Maybe my campaign is just brighter, but IME Gabriel generally has it in her head to be a good mother to her children. She's a bit unpredictable but I don't think there'd be much mulching of Servitors without dissonance. There's not much mercy for those that *do* have dissonance, of course, but it's probably no worse in the long run than what other Superiors' servitors get. I consider most Demon Princes far worse to serve, really (better burned than eaten, thinks I. And Belial seems far more likely to torch one of his people than Gabby). (of course, my Angelic campaign is reasonably bright, whereas the backwards Demonic campaign I'm in is very dark low contrast, so my viewpoint is pretty skewed. Still my Ofanite of Gabriel generally does considerably better than my Shedite of Malphas...) Cheers, -Ryan "No need to thank me. High sexual tension and a chance to ponce dramatically into the darkness is all I need." -Angel (the Buffy spin-off, that is( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:18:34 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Gaming in general [Was:The short life of PBEMs] >Quite simply, you need people >that are willing to make a *commitment.* doesn't think that joining a >game that is supposed to meet every other week is actually a commitment, >since it's just a hobby. If something else comes up, so what? Keeping a gaming group together, online or not, is a difficult task. We've been pretty lucky in that we've been able to get most of our players to make a strong committment to showing up. Of course, leaving them with cliff-hangers on a regular basis doesn't hurt, either... Even so, we've lost our best player lately - and for a reason we can't even complain about too much. A baby and a few step-daughters. Now, if they would only get just a *little* bit older so we could start training them up *right*... Aunt Ki, preparing to give gaming books for holidays and birthdays... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:11:31 EDT From: Zeresh43@gateway.net Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword In my opinion, Khalid is a poor example of an Archangel in general. While I can understand why an Archangel of Faith was created like this for game purposes, it doesn't seem like the Host would be willing to let someone who was so upset with the fact that Laurence was made AA of the Host. In my opinion, (of course, this is TOTALLY my opinion) Khalid would've suffered dissonance for his Elohite (sorry if that's wrong) nature. When I look back on Khalid now, he seems so much less...faithful. I think his emotions DID influence his actions, including his choice of just who to represent as the faithful. Also, don't Elohite naturally perfer to conceal their emotions (if not, that's how i've been looking at them), even if showing them won't net them dissonance? Khalid does seem pretty un-Elohite to me. Then again, maybe that's just me. So, in summery, while the Khalid writeup is pretty neat, and his whole history is ok (if he wasn't filled with pride in his own actions when he was promoted to the status of AA, it'd make that whole history a lot kewler), his Choir was very wrong, IMO. Still, that's all just my opinion Clear Skies Zeresh, Habbalite of Annoying Babble. Sorry if that's all this was. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 23:11:15 -0700 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream - -----Original Message----- From: Maurice Lane To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:54 PM Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream >------------------------------Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 >10:22:33 -0700 (PDT) >From: Guy Royse >Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The >Symphony Scream > >>Do you have any thoughts on extra-terrestials and >>perhaps their effects on the Marches? Or the Far >>Marches? >>Guy > >The entire issue of aliens will be a tough one. As I >see it, there are several choices: > >1) No aliens at all. Humanity is it. Requires >almost no tweaking, but I'd find it boring. > >2a) Aliens, but they've got their own celestials, >ethereals, and so forth. The Host (and the Legion) >was as shocked as anyone else to find out that their >celestial plane isn't the only celestial plane. >Amusing, but the questions it raises are pretty >complex (and _I'd_ have to answer them). That >"ethereal Yahweh" theory gets a shot in the arm. > >2b) Aliens, and they're tied into the entire >Heaven/Hell scheme. Simple, but it does beg the >question, "So why haven't they shown up in Heaven or >Hell before?" (I'll get away with it, 'cuz I'll be >recruiting newbies to play, hopefully, but it is a >stylistic hole). I may run with this one anyway, >because it occurs to me that other races might find >certain Choirs to fit in with their mindset in the >same way that Mercurians do with homo sapiens. That'd >be neat. > >In any of the above, the ethereals should get some >pressure taken off of them. Lots more people and >planets = lots more Essence to sustain them. The Host >will back off a bit, especially if ET ethereal >pantheons show up into the mix.* > >Morgan > >*This is a bedrock, no question about it, >I-wanna-do-it-and-I'm-the-GM-so-phbbbth, given in the >campaign that I plan to run, NOT necessarily the most >(or even highly)likely result. Some things I want to >do require a tacit truce in the Crusade. :) Actually, If I made a "In Nomine in Space" campaign, I'd rip a few things off of Mage: The Ascencion; Outer Space is actually what we imagine it to be, as it's all part of the Marches. Alien worlds and life forms would be strange Etherial creations, born of Humanity's subconscious mind. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:05:34 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Hi > Ok I think people are slightly missing my original point. I'm not > interested in fitting current arch angels into ancient concepts. The > point I"ve been trying to make is I'm interested in setting things up > according to christian angelology. In christian angelology there are 7 > principle arch angels. Not exactly. Answers range from 4-5 to a possible 12. > Four of these are drawn from texts Michael, > Gaberiel, Ariel(also called Uriel) and Raphael. The other 3 depend on > who you ask. Michael is ultamitely the highest ranking angel second to > God alone. He is prince of the heavenly host and the leader in battle. No argument there. > What I was looking for advice on(and still am) is A recreating Raphael > and Uriel for In Nomine terms, No help there. > B to help sort out the other 3, Pick some and be done with it. Rationalize however you like, the players probably won't know the difference anyway. When the Kabbalists start debating it's all over. This is a topic they've been debating for how many hundreds of years? > C some help with ideas regarding the demons, Like what? > C help building an Azrael(I didn't really like the one some one pointed out to me to be honest). We have one that we can post or send by direct email. Votes? The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 22:29:56 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Alex Liddell wrote: > > Question. > > Who ever said that Faith was exclusive to Muslim? Khalid is an Elohite is > he not. Subjectivity is like a slap in the face to them. I think they > missed that a little bit in The Final Trumpet. They seemed to put Khalid's > Fall in terms of him loosing Faith in God and his Word rather than his > Elohite nature of remaining impartial and ultimately objective. > > I would like to hear some thoughts on Khalid with regard to his "one eyed" > nature of God and the Superior opinions of him. See S3, where I did my best to "fix" Khalid. (And yes, Elohite is a terrible choice for the Archangel of Faith.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:10:11 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream > 2b) Aliens, and they're tied into the entire > Heaven/Hell scheme. Simple, but it does beg the > question, "So why haven't they shown up in Heaven or > Hell before?" (I'll get away with it, 'cuz I'll be > recruiting newbies to play, hopefully, but it is a > stylistic hole). I may run with this one anyway, > because it occurs to me that other races might find > certain Choirs to fit in with their mindset in the > same way that Mercurians do with homo sapiens. That'd > be neat. Easy. Because they don't have any duties on earth. And a Mercurian looks like an idealized version of one of them, to them. (Think about Morpheus and Jonn Jonz the Martian Manhunter in the 3rd or 4th Sandman comic for the concept...) Canon seems to pretty much ignore the question and this seems to be the simplest. Either that or there are a whole other set of AA's over on the other side of the Grove... The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Angels in Space Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:02:21 -0400From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Angels in Space >Just some thoughts on this... Some interesting (and useful)suggestions there, but I have one little quibble: Andre's going to _love_ the idea of interstellar civilizations. Not because of the zero-g sex. Not for the genetic manipulations with ... interesting results. Not even for the possible variations you can get up to with alien races. He's going to love the fact that destroying humanity has gotten much, much harder. Every world that's colonized is one more layer of protection between him and the Final War. Blow up Earth? Go ahead: he's got the pleasure planets of the Galactic Rim to keep him going, thank you very much.* Andre and Nybbas (once they sit down and actually _read_ the proposal that Vapula's been trying to get them to look at for the last twenty years), are going to be all over space travel like jam on toast.** Odd, when you think about it, but those two _need_ humans to stay relevant. Lots and lots and lots of humans, and they couldn't care less if they did the hairless monkeys a world of good as a by-product. In fact, it'd probably make them feel smug. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of He'll _Like_ The Zero-G Sex Thing, Of Course *This is a general problem for the "let's get the bloody thing over with" crowd on both sides, actually. Coordinating Armageddon gets somewhat harder when you've got to blow up the entire galaxy to do it. **In fact, you could make a case that they already are. Sorta. Maybe. ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin P Meares Subject: Re: IN> Hi I wasn't taking that aspects of the tradition though. I'm not that familiar with Qaballah mostly I've studied christian aspects which don't go into the elements and stuff. As to Silver Ravenwolf shes a wiccan shes got some problems but by in large shes right on some of her ideas(her main problem is her refusal to accept the reality of fallen angels). ===== http://the_master_2.tripod.com/mywebpage/ my home page(under construction) http://www.demonologyresearch.com the web site of the dvdr that I am a member of Love seeketh not Itself to please, Nor for itself hath any care; But for another gives its ease, And builds a Heaven in Hell's despair. William Blake The Clod and the Pebble __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:20:52 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Khalid and Faith (was Sword and Faith) >Who ever said that Faith was exclusive to Muslim? Answer: Muslim Fundamentalists >Khalid is an Elohite is he not. Unless he fell and became a Habbalite. >Subjectivity is like a slap in the face to them. I think they >missed that a little bit in The Final Trumpet. They seemed to put Khalid's >Fall in terms of him losing Faith in God and his Word rather than his >Elohite nature of remaining impartial and ultimately objective. Actually on the contrary I think the method of Khalid's fall can be sumarized very properly..... A:) Overcompensation: Khalid losing faith and trust in God's word lost all subjectivity and fanatically threw himself into displaying the "actions" that he is not weak, he does do god's will, and he is protecting the faithful (Muslims). Losing his objectivity, his faith and trust in God, and becomming a zealot as because (thus proving fanatics have the least ammount of faith of us all) I think made him the perfect Habbalite. >I would like to hear some thoughts on Khalid with regard to his "one eyed" >nature of God and the Superior opinions of him. Faith is a word that needs to belong to a Elohite because it requires someone with a clear head on their shoulders to balance the various half-truths, half-faiths, partially statements, and certain points of view that need to be taken whenever dealing with matters of faith (take a look at Obi Wan Kenobi and his view of Vader for instance). A Seraphim would simply dictate the truth, a Olfalim would move faith with no regard for tradition, A Kyriorite...I have no idea, and a Cherub would protect what is. A malakim...well Khalid acts like one now. The only problem with Khalid is that while he knows some things to be true and he BELIEVES with all his heart and soul in one truth. This is perfectly all right in my mind but he must retain his patience for the rest of humanity to catch up with him...or view things as correct which are not necessarily wrong because their different. >I think an Elohite is a bad choice for the Word of Faith. A Mercurian would >be much better as would a Malakim. You heard why I believe Faith is an Elohite word. Personally a Mercurian would in my opinion simply lack the capacity to tell a mortal up front....with a flamming sword. "YOU *ARE* WRONG." Subjectivity is fine but some humans do not have that and either are totally pig headed or are worse dangerous and MUST BE STOPPED. Faith like Sex is a powerful word that leads to lots of violence and occasionally war against it. Dealing with the anger behind fear of it would be too much for a Mercurian I believe. >The thing is that Elohim have to remain Objective, but they don't get >dissonance for being subjective. Only for letting their EMOTIONS influence >their actions. I guess in that way I just answered my own question... or >did I? I think you answered why Khalid was getting all dissonant. "I AM FAITHFUL DAMNIT! HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT I AM NOT FAITHFUL!? LOOK AT HOW I PUNISH THE SINFUL! LOOK AT HOW I PROTECT THE FAITHFUL! I AM FAITH! I AM FAITH...." sound of sobbing... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:47:55 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. In a message dated 8/3/00 9:42:46 AM, moelane_1999@yahoo.com writes: >Anybody come up with a good name for a gathering of >DPs? Especially when gathered as a formal group. > >I mean, you can semi-get away with making "bunch of >AAs" and "Seraphim Council" more or less synonymous >(sorta kinda not really), but if there's a good >collective name for their opposites in canon, I don't >remember it. > >Morgan A Damnation of Demon Princes. A Glory of Archangels. (At least that's my vote...) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:56:36 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> New Fire Attunements (was re: Habbalated) >Alex, you're absolutely right about Gabriel's attunements, IMO. It's very >unfair that her Ofanim and Malakim get cool powers while everyone else >just gets the duty. Yes! Yes, yes, yes. I can remember one of my experienced players, having just lost a character, reading through Gabriel's writeup as he tried to work up a new one. He wanted to play a Gabrielite, and he wanted to play a Mercurian. But when he read the Merc of Fire attunement... "This isn't an attunement, Doug. It's an extra dissonance condition." And he was right. (He went for it anyway, bless his heart... a true roleplayer. But I think it's a bit much to expect of all players generally.) >EXPANDED GABRIEL CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS > >Note that the text below should be _added_ to the text in the main IN book. > >SERAPHIM > They also know the temperature of anything in their line of vision, even >in the dark. This effectively gives them infravision. I like it. Bit reminiscent of the Seraph of Stone. >CHERUBIM > Betrayers' skin blisters and itches at the touch of these Cherubim. IF >they touch such a person and make a Will roll, the betrayer takes the >check digit in damage each turn of contact; this damaging contact can be >held for turns equal to the Cherub's Corporeal Forces. If the Will roll is >failed, the Cherub takes damage equal to the check digit, but may try >again. This can only be done (successfully) once per person. Hmm. I like that it's sort of similar to the Djinn of Fire attunement, but I'm not sure that I like having a Cherub inflict damage with a touch. It's just not very... Cherubic. "Isn't that the same hand you attune with?" And using a Will roll... too demonic. >ELOHIM > They also have the ability to extract the emotional pain from one >person, healing their pain (and Mind hits equal to the angel's Celestial >Forces*). They may, with a touch, return this pain to the person who >caused it, doin the same amount of mental damage to the aggressor. While >these Mind hits are healing, the subject suffers a penalty to ALL rolls >equal to the unhealed damage. Good one. "Here's how your cruelty felt" is exactly right for a Power of Fire. >KYRIOTATES > As long as they have 3 free Forces, these angels can manifest as fire! Keen. >Their senses and speech work normally, but they cannot actually burn >anyone or anything. Awww... >MERCURIANS > Her Mercurians are experts at igniting the spark within a human. They >all have +1 Charisma (in any vessel) and add +1 to any skill roll to >inspire or affect emotion in a human (e.g., Sex Appeal, Artistry, Emote). I like this too. Very good overall. I wish there'd been something like this in the S3 Gabriel writeup. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:15:11 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> Angels in Space Charles Phipps wrote: > Novalis having alittle difficulty keeping flowers as symbols of peace ad > harmony discovers the alienness of plantlife and the ideas of terraforming > are perfect for forming Utopian civilizations. Green houses become her mode > of transport and she gains Laurence's respect for her architectual > achievements. Oh come on. The Sky Garden's of Rigal have got to be one of the major wonders of the Galaxy (or are we talking universal scale?) And of course only the egalitarian and pacifist Rigal III colony could ever spare the resources for such a project. Not to mention that space travelers are encouraged to grow their own private gardens to aid in 02 <-> CO2 conversions. Nova's doing just fine. * > The angelic and hellish host is WAAAAAY bigger now. The number of humans in > Heaven/hell has skyrocketed empowering both sides. I suspect that in relation the the amazingly booming human population they are remaining about constant with hell continuing to gain a slight number edge but sacrificing quality to do so. Matt Trent * Totally IMC of course ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:18:49 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: IN> IN Cover Well, In case you haven't noticed they've got the cover up for the new printing of IN*. And as usual I find myself about half pleased with the cover. The Subtitle does a nice job of expressing the tone of the game though the pic is way too dark and high contrast IMNSHO. What Do You Think? Matt Trent * http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/core/img/hardcover_lg.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:28:24 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> mundane character sheet "Angelo Bautista (Wyrm Puff)" wrote: > > No, I don't mean that character sheets are mundane... hmmm... mostly. heh. > My question is; is there an available electronic format, preferably PDF, > of any character sheet made specifically for mortals, i.e. mundanes, > soldiers, etc.? I don't have the Corporeal Player's Guide, but I'm > getting it soon (just ordered) so I don't know if it had its own character > sheets. > > Ummm... if there are available 'mortal' character sheets, can anybody > give me a link? Foolish mortal thou hast not checked the character sheet section (just below the Resources and Play Aids heading on the main IN Site) or follow me to http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/charsheets/ and enjoy that great Char sheets that our very own Tafka J. made*. Ohhh. Superior Specific Char Sheets. Nifty. > Thanks. Your welcome. Matthew Trent * All Hail the great Tafka J! Creator of Character Sheets and Kind enough to share! Hip Hip Hooray! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:42:38 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover From: "Matt Trent" > > What Do You Think? I like it... *shrugs* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:55:18 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword >When I look back on Khalid now, he seems so much less...faithful. I >think >his emotions DID influence his actions, including his choice of >just who >to represent as the faithful. Also, don't Elohite naturally >perfer to >conceal their emotions (if not, that's how i've been looking >at them), >even if showing them won't net them dissonance? I'm not sure about the dissonance condition, but one of the books, I think Revelations 3: Heaven and Hell states that most of the Archangels have a favored religion. 1: Laurance and Dominic: Catholic 2: Khalid: Muslim 3: David: Judaism I don't see how his emotions influenced his choice of "The Faithful". Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketing ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:00:55 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> IN in NZ > >Oh this is conspiracy! There for such heresy the Inquisition has been >contacted with all of your details. Don't worry, the Inquisition already have all my details ;) jo archfiend in training ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:02:43 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover I'm glad the feather is back. >From: Matt Trent >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: IN List >Subject: IN> IN Cover >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:18:49 -0500 > >Well, In case you haven't noticed they've got the cover up for the new >printing of IN*. And as usual I find myself about half pleased with the >cover. The Subtitle does a nice job of expressing the tone of the game >though the pic is way too dark and high contrast IMNSHO. > >What Do You Think? > >Matt Trent > >* http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/core/img/hardcover_lg.jpg > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 05:07:35 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover At 02:18 AM 8/4/00, you wrote: >What Do You Think? Honestly? I liked the original cover (and the hardbound design) a LOT more than I like this one. I agree with Jo; I'm glad the feather is back... but for whatever reason, this cover positively /screams/ "GURPS Book" at me. If a more unified look throughout their game lines is what SJGames is looking for, then IMO they've done an admirable job. On the other hand, if I saw this in a gaming store without having known about the new cover, my first reaction would be "Hey, I thought they weren't going to expand GURPS: In Nomine." Just my two cents. - -EDG Five in the morning, 'cos I'm going to Otakon today. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:10:22 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover - --On Friday, August 4, 2000 1:18 AM -0500 Matt Trent wrote: > Well, In case you haven't noticed they've got the cover up for the > new printing of IN*. And as usual I find myself about half pleased > with the cover. The Subtitle does a nice job of expressing the > tone of the game though the pic is way too dark and high contrast > IMNSHO. > > What Do You Think? > I like the art, even though my first reaction was, "That looks SO MUCH like a GURPS suppliment..." Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Maybe it's the typeset.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:12:31 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover - --On Friday, August 4, 2000 5:07 AM -0400 EDG wrote: > At 02:18 AM 8/4/00, you wrote: > >> What Do You Think? > > Honestly? > > I liked the original cover (and the hardbound design) a LOT more > than I like this one. > > I agree with Jo; I'm glad the feather is back... but for whatever > reason, this cover positively /screams/ "GURPS Book" at me. Good. I wasn't alone. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("And I HAVE TO learn to read these threads all the way through so I don't end up accidentally repeating EJD's lines before I see them.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:10:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow Maurice Lane wrote: > Anybody come up with a good name for a gathering of > DPs? Especially when gathered as a formal group. Trouble! Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 06:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Guy Royse Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream > The entire issue of aliens will be a tough one. As I > see it, there are several choices: One could always just say that the aliens always were in Heaven and Hell and nobody really noticed. Another thing that could be interesting, now that I think of it, is that aliens are souless, godless creatures. This could give humanity and perhaps even angels innumerable reasons to treat them poorly. Without a Fate or a Destiny, they are at best unimportant to the War and at worse useful pawns. Guy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:15:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas J Howell Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover I kinda liked it. Especially the medieval writing in the background around the picture. Reminded me a little of Millenium (that old Fox show) and the kinds of collage pics they did for X-Files videocassettes. I liked the GURPS IN pic too, though nothing compares to the stark and holy whiteness of the IN limited hardcover! :) Is the inside of this reprint also in color?? TJ PS A note on burning feathers: I like the burning feathers, but there are just too many of them. The one on the bottom of the pic is great, but the upper (big) one looks like its just hanging there. Speaking of, I was a little confused about all the burning feather pics in S3. In Lib. Cant., of course, they were used to show rules/ theories that were potentially (or blatantly) unbalancing. In S3, they're just litter (pardon the phrase) and it confused me at first. I really like the idea of graphics representing something like this (take the crosses in Lib. Ser. for starting characters, too), but the line developer (IMHO) ought to be consistent in future supplements. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:18:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Omentide wrote: > I'd have problems with Yves on Daath. Might be the way I was taught > Qabalah. I always liked the 'Daath fell and became Malkuth' > hypothesis. Or maybe I tend to over-rate Yves due to my own addiction to > libraries... I've never actually heard the "Daath fell and became Malkuth" hypothesis (although that's probably because I don't know as much about the Kabbalah as I'd like). I nominated Yves for Daath because all I know about it is that it is - let's see, where'd I put that paraphrase in my notes - "where the Divine may enter to intervene directly in existence. It is the knowledge which emerges from nowhere and comes directly from God." Based on that description, Yves sounded pretty good. If "Daath fell and became Malkuth", perhaps Eli was Daath and is now Malkuth if that hypothesis is used? > I guess I still rather like my Yves/Chokmah idea and tend to > see Adam Qadmon (excuse my spelling, I used to be addicted to gematria, > though I reckon I'm recovering) as the 'ideal template' for humanity. The > ideal template to which humanity failed to live up because humanity is MORE > than whoever created it planned for... I can see Yves as Chokmah, now that I've looked it up again. Admittedly, though, I'm still rather partial to my Yves/Daat idea. :) > >Hmmm... An "In Nomine Qabalah" could be interesting. How do these > >correspondences sound? > > My version (heavily tentative) > Kether - Uriel since his ascension? The canonical Yves might actually work better as Kether. He was first, he named everything else, and he watched everything come into existence. Yves as Adam Qadmon doesn't work as well here, though. Uriel doesn't feel right to me, either. It still seems like the Archangel who leads the Host should be Keter - Michael originally, then Uriel, and now Lawrence. > Binah - Dominique I was going to argue that Dominic should be Gevurah instead. But, the more I look at it, the more I think you're right. > Ashley is saying Gabriel for Chesed and Michael for Gevurah, which is > definitely arguable. Could be no more than a gender difference thing - > looking in different directions. I could see Michael or Lawrence for Gevurah, actually. Gabriel doesn't seem to fit into Chesed, though. Mercy doesn't seem to be her strong suit (unelss Chesed has subtelties that don't translate well). Perhaps Novalis for Chesed? > Both of us think the 'higher' ones are more difficult to assign. Canon > tends to have a levelling aspect that doesn't fit well with the > Tree. Yes, very rough. > The whole game has serious problems with water and Binah equates with > the primal oceans (amongst other things), also with strong feminine > stuff (which IN also tends to lack). I'm going to *have* to do some more reading. Every time you say something like that, my first thought is "I didn't know that!". *sigh* More material for my backloged to-do list. :) > Things were almost certainly different in the days before the Rebellion. > So, if I was going to do Daath, it would probably be Lucifer. Interesting. Could you elaborate on that? > I may have used the wrong word when I called Yves an androgyne. What I > >meant is someone who is both male and female simultaneously. The way I > >see it, angels have no sex, while Yves has both. > > ?Difference between alchemical silver and alchemical gold? I *think* so. Alchemy isn't my strong suit. > >Incidentally, I would have correlated the Corporeal with the world of > >Assiyah, not just the sephirot of Malkhut. > > Yup, but I don't want to be correlating 40 superiors! LoL! Point taken. :) > Blandine/Beleth and the Ethereals have the Marches stitched, which is > probably all you need to say about Yetzirah, and I don't think you can > really expect any game to go further than that. I thought about trying once. Then I realized that I need to pass my courses so I can graduate. > Ultimately, In Nomine is a game world and Qabalah is > a belief system and/or an attempt to describe the Universe (including bits > of the universe that are hidden from humanity). True. But it's still fun to discuss. > >Alternately, assuming that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of the entire > >human race, the "fragment" of Yves means that all human beings have a > >touch of divinity in them, making them "embryonic gods". Despite the > >seeming handicap of the 15-Force ceiling for humans, every member of the > >human race has the potential to become something *much* greater than even > >the most powerful Archangel. > > Is that why humanity is the focus of the war? I think so. In Nomine > implicity concedes that every man, every woman and every child is a > Star. Possibly it's the Destiny within them that makes them potentially > bright. That's my reasoning as well. I also borrowed a little bit of Mormon theology for it, which means that every human being literally *is* an embryonic god. > A broken reflection of Adam and Eve would make for something > >interesting in a campaign, however. Kronos attempts to create a second > >(or third) breed of humanity as a reflection of himself. The idea is to > >use them to nudge humanity as a collective towards it's Fate, tipping the > >scales of the War in the favor of Hell. > > Umm. My own Grand Campaign was leading towards the nature of Kobal's > ultimate joke. I have my own theory as to the punchline... > > >According to the timeline, Kronos came into existence after the Fall. > >Maybe the corruption of Adam and Eve (even just a little) is what > >*created* Kronos. > > What I was hinting at. Oooh! I like it! > I think, it this gets more technical, we might ought to take it off list. If it gets too much more technical, I don't know if I'll be able to keep up anyway. I'm pushing the envelope of what I know about Kabbalah as it is. But I'm game anyway. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:27:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas J Howell Subject: IN> Ideas for PBEMs [Was:The short life of PBEMs] What kinds of ideas for PBEMs have folks been thinking up? What kinds of PBEMs have you participated in (IN related)? I used to play a great little PBEM (that lasted for about a year) in which each member was a human or Soldier that was part of a Millenium-style consulting firm. It was lots of fun and we used ICQ's chat capabilities to play out certain 'critical scenes'. TJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:51:30 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover > Well, In case you haven't noticed they've got the cover up for the new > printing of IN*. And as usual I find myself about half pleased with the > cover. The Subtitle does a nice job of expressing the tone of the game > though the pic is way too dark and high contrast IMNSHO. > > What Do You Think? I am less than thrilled... The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 11:17:46 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Guy Royse wrote: > One could always just say that the aliens always were in Heaven and > Hell and nobody really noticed. Or that they were always there and it simply hasn't been commented on in the canon. And presumably alien Saints are concerned with their own worlds, not with Earth. Or at least only come down in human vessels. > Another thing that could be interesting, now that I think of it, is > that aliens are souless, godless creatures. An old science fiction novel by James Blish, "A Case of Conscience," deals with precisely this idea. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 11:19:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> "Plundering the Bible" For those of you who are Pyramid subscribers, I'm happy to announce that my IN-related article, "Plundering the Bible," appears in this week's issue. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1757 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.