From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 7 09:28:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03595 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:28:36 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA26786 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:26:23 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:26:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200008071426.JAA26786@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1760 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 7 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1760 In this digest: IN> Novalis Servitor attunement question IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Re: IN> My Take of Yves Re: IN> Habbalated Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals IN> The end? IN> Pronounciation: was Long Thoughts About Plurals Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals RE: IN> Faith and The Sword RE: IN> Faith and The Sword IN> Website upgrade... IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) Re: IN> The end? Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals IN> Haagenti's Tummy Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Re: IN> Haagenti's Tummy Re: IN> You'd think that I'd come up with somebody really nasty at least once... IN> Can I have a Word with you?(was the Faith arguement) Re: IN> Can I have a Word with you?(was the Faith arguement) Re: IN> Should Celestials get Music Bonus's? Re: IN> "Plundering the Bible" Re: IN> New Principality: Haagenti's Tummy Re: IN> You'd think that I'd come up with somebody really nasty at least once... Re: IN> Should Celestials get Music Bonus's? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 23:23:45 GMT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Novalis Servitor attunement question When a Servitor of Novalis uses the attunement "Nothing But Flowers," what is the volume of plants or flowers required for it to work? Will it work on a large bouquet or a pot of geraniums, or is a rose bush, a magnolia tree, or a reasonable sized hedge required? Will it only work outside, or will it work inside if the plants in question are alive (large planters, a greenhouse, a garden show exhibit)? Janet Anderson ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:28:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals No, seriously, get to the fourth footnote where I have the inspirational realization of _why_ some things bug me so much. At 6:43 PM -0400 7/30/00, Chalres Phipps wrote: >But right now I'm ready to ask Michael to move the Djinn of Nitpicking and >ALL her servitors up to Numero Uno on the Target list. Laurence too.... Nitpicking a post with no other content is, indeed, not something the Princess approves of. Take note. Or, better, take it to private email if you _must_ do it. Nitpicking quoted material while answering is still fair game, so long as there is _significant_ added content, in the form of answering questions, yadda, yadda. (Why? The cute answer is that I need the Essence.* The real answer is that I spent MONTHS learning the IN- canon spellings and plurals, and too much wrong-usage screws me up! I got caught saying "a Malakim" live the other day, when I'd had it perfect for the last year at _least_. (I did subsequently catch "a Habbalah" twice later...) ** Any constant misusage affects would- be authors, affects _me_, and annoys the heck out of more than just me, apparently. I correct my spouse if he gets it wrong, too.***) Anyone _wrongly_ nitpicking opens themselves to ridicule -- hm, maybe I should mung on dissonance conditions... *Which may not be _so_ unreal -- the other day, I pointed out to a friend, re something she was working on, that zombi had no "e" in IN. I immediately felt better and remembered to eat some of my snacks. Must've been the Essence... O&/ (boggled smiley) **Trick for remembering the singular of Habbalah: Scene: A guy at a bar, cowering from the celestial form of a menacing Habbalite hovering over the bar-stool next to him. Caption: "Er, _BUD_ lite..." ***Consider -- if people _are_ bothering to do so (and it's really not all that frequent, normally), it _is_ annoying them. The considerate thing to do is to make an _effort_ to not outrageously misspell things -- whereupon people will probably chill out more. (If someone has dyslexia, that's different. Or Tourette's Syndrome. Or is otherwise incapable...) Really, to those of us who work hard to get it right, having someone else consistantly mangle things is almost as annoying as if they were constantly mangling our names. Think of the worst nickname you've ever had, and think of someone using it at you. All the time. When you've politely pointed out you prefer to be called something else. Eventually, you'd want to start shouting, right? In its own way, certain persistant errors are disrespectful to those whose jobs _depend_ on getting it right, as well as those who make it a point of pride to master the black art of IN plurals and capitalization. And, not being snide here, you _were_ griping about disrespect.... O:> **** **** No, really, if you don't take to the nickname bit, think of it this way. My daughter's name is Iolanthe. That's EE-oh-LAN-thay. But a lot of people apparently don't hear the "thay" on the first saying, and call her "EE-oh-lan-TEY." Naturally, I correct this, and would think it highly rude of someone to keep mangling her name! Now, consider the time and energy that I spend (for there are _few_ editors who master the Dark Art of the Stylesheet) fixing up manuscripts... It's not _quite_ as bad as mangling my daughter's name deliberately, but it's close! >Calling Dominic, DOMNIQUE when he's in Male form! Trivia: That's the French spelling for the male-aspected AA. Or even the turtle-bodied one....... (And this is about all I'm going to say on the topic, except that if _some_ people try to get on my case in public, I have blackmail text of _some_ people objecting to my using "Habbies" habitually to save my fingers.) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:25:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> My Take of Yves At 9:55 PM -0500 8/2/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >Read the adventure in Liber Reliquarium. [...] >> >> Oh, gods, no, don't read it... It's waaaaaay... weird. Messed up. >> I still don't recall seeing it before it was in print. > >Yes, you did. You commented on it. So did Steve. Ugh. What was in the _water_...? (Seriously, I remember commenting on the first chunk -- whatshername the Living Artifact Saint -- but not the adventure-chunk.) >And heck, it ain't THAT bad, if you assume a low contrast game. In a >higher contrast game, obviously it needs tweaking. I think it needs some tweaking anyway, for different aspects, but I'm not going to go through and worry about it today. - --Beth, typing w/a baby (iolanthe) on her chest. Vapitalizatoin & spelling difficult, typing w/1 hand & supporting baby w/other. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:36:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Habbalated At 6:27 PM +0000 8/3/00, Alex Liddell wrote: >There are rules for the emotions a Habbalah can inflict a person with in the >Core Book. And a note, somewhat obscure, that the GM and players can come up with others based on it. > There are attunements that give the Habbalah the ability to >inflict other emotional states upon a person. Actualy, this is inaccurte -- there are attunements that give them a BONUS to inflict other states. Some of those emotions are the ones in the main book, some are specific to the Word of the Prince, and have other effects. Those effects are, naturally, noted in the description (so that playres and GMs can use the same baseline). If you look carefully, there are no Habbalite Band Attunements which grant the ability to _inflict_ an emotion -- they just give bonuses, or otherwise power-up the resonance slightly. Or if you can find one which _does_ state it only _gives_ the ability to inflict a given emotion, tell me and I'll errata it... [...] >Those Attunements >are just extensions of Gabriel's dissonance restrictions. It is almost like >Gabriel says to her new angels. > >"Here you go. You can now detect the X of cruel intentions within any human >soul. By the way, you now have to punish them and the Attunement is in no >way going to help you do that.... Bingo. Thoug it's more like, "I want you to show people of Type X Cruelty a thing or two. Here, now you can spot them on sight so you don't have to w3aste time trying to figure out if they're realy cruel, or just seem that way." For instance, a Kyrio might see a drill sergeant seemingly being cruel to his students, forcing them to great lenghts -- and without his attunement, the Kyriotate wouldn't know if the guy really enjoyed the pain that his people went through, or if he was simply doing his best to train them to survive combat. SAorry for the typos. The baby is fussing on my shoulder. - --Beth, typing w/a baby (iolanthe) on her chest. Vapitalizatoin & spelling difficult, typing w/1 hand & supporting baby w/other. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:46:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover At 10:15 AM -0400 8/4/00, Thomas J Howell wrote: >I really like the idea of graphics representing something like this >(take the crosses in Lib. Ser. for starting characters, too), but >the line developer (IMHO) ought to be consistent in future supplements. Tell it to the art director -- I rarely get consulted on art matters like that. As in, if it's just fillerart (like these were in S3), I find out about it when I get my printed copy. Waaaaaay too late to do anything about it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 19:58:03 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>>The real answer is that I spent MONTHS learning the IN- > canon spellings and plurals, and too much wrong-usage screws me up! I would think that anyone who writes professionally should be able to continue writing professionally even after (horrors!) being exposed regularly to unprofessional writing. I see people using horrible English grammar, spelling, and punctuation all the time -- I'm an ESL teacher. But it hasn't hindered my own ability to uses proper English gramer, speling end, punktuasion. > ***Consider -- if people _are_ bothering to do so (and it's really > not all that frequent, normally), it _is_ annoying them. The considerate > thing to do is to make an _effort_ to not outrageously misspell things -- That assumes that people would for some reason misspell things deliberately. I very much doubt that anyone writes "Seraphs" just for the purpose of annoying you. I make as much effort not to misspell In Nomine terms as I make not to misspell anything, which varies of course depending on whether I'm writing professionally, or for a quick post to an e-mail list. The idea that it's "impolite" and _disrespectful_ (?!!) not to follow the official In Nomine styleguide when posting to an open fan list, clearly ANNOYS a number of other people. So I'll see your annoyance and raise you mine. >>> Really, to those of us who work hard to get it > right, having someone else consistantly mangle things is almost as annoying > as if they were constantly mangling our names. Who is "those of us"? I work hard to get it right, but I do not identify with In Nomine to such an extent that it is part of my personal life and threatens my self esteem when people don't care to check their angelic plurals. I don't know of any other IN author who's expressed this peeve. You are speaking for yourself, and yourself only, Elizabeth. >>> Think of the worst> nickname you've ever had, and think of someone using it at you. All the > time. When you've politely pointed out you prefer to be called something > else. Eventually, you'd want to start shouting, right? If you consider people misspelling In Nomine terms to be comparable to people calling you offensive nicknames, perhaps you are identifying too closely with it? It certainly doesn't sound very emotionally healthy to have that kind of attitude. > In its own way, certain persistant errors are disrespectful to > those whose jobs _depend_ on getting it right, From authors? Sure. From FANS WHO ARE NOT WRITING PROFESSIONALLY? Nonsense! > (And this is about all I'm going to say on the topic, except that if > _some_ people try to get on my case in public, I have blackmail text > of _some_ people objecting to my using "Habbies" habitually to save > my fingers.) Well, you (re)opened the topic, so that certainly makes your statements fair game for comment. I intend to continue expressing my opinion of things that annoy ME (in the civil and polite manner for which I am justly famed :-) ) to anyone who engages in unnecessary nitpicking (which is to say, about 90% of it) on the list. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:03:02 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: IN> The end? I'm not sure where this came from, but I thought I'd share one moment's odd thought. - ----- Heaven dimmed for the last time. The War was over, and Hell had lost. The universe was over, the final test had come and gone. Jacob's Ladder beckoned to the Host, and slowly, the angels began to gather around it in wonderment. The light above the Eternal City was fading fast. As the Archangels began to climb the Ladder, all light faded away. Heaven was as black as coal, and as silent as a shroud. If Lucifer still existed, he would have been pleased, Eli thought. One being left shone as the sun. Without light, there was nothing in Heaven save the Ladder, and so each being remaining saw it. It was a small reliever, the last being created by Eli, only minutes old. It stood on nothingness and thought for a long time as the angels watched. One by one, they ascended the Ladder. It looked around, blinking as it tried to peer into the darkness, but nothing was to be seen in the absolute blackness. For a long time, it did nothing as the angels imperceptibly climbed the Ladder to the Higher Heavens. Archangel Eli was the last to ascend. He thought to himself, "This is the way things are, should be, will be, and have always been. Amen." Then he entered the Upper Heavens, and the only being left in all of Creation was a small reliever. It cried, having all the angelic instincts to care and protect, with none to care for or protect. In it's sadness it felt betrayed, and fleetingly felt the pull of despair - of Fate. Yet at the same time, it felt hope and Destiny. Wanting to have another being so badly, it poured all of it's emotions and Essence into the desire, and another Presence was born. The Presence looked up at the reliever quizzically. "What am I?" the reliever asked. "You are God," the Presence said, and the reliever knew it to be true. God looked at the Presence, and asked it what it was. "I am Yves." And God saw it, and saw that it was good. "Let there be light." Somewhere, up in the Higher Heavens, Eli smiled, and watched the universe create itself again. - ----- - -Aaron Medwin trying to be a contributing list member ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:18:31 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Pronounciation: was Long Thoughts About Plurals I say OFF-a-nim, but one of my In Nomine groups says, Oh-FAN-im. Which is correct? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 02:31:56 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals David, >But it hasn't hindered my own ability to uses proper English gramer, >speling end, punktuasion. Did you not mean proper American English? I could challenge you to spell colour or conceptualisation... Some of the canon In Nomine language annoys me inordinately. It hurts me to type Lilim as a singular - it sounds too much like a plural to me. And, if the plural of Seraph is Seraphim, why is the plural of Balseraph not Balseraphim? That said, whilst I wouldn't bother spellchecking and proofreading a message to a list the way I would a submission for publication, I do try to correct any typos. I tend to type in UK English and only make the effort to type in American English if I'm submitting for an American publisher. I confess that I am fairly consistently irritated by those who do not show the same degree of consideration for their casual mailing list readers. There are excuses (dyslexia, English not being ones mother tongue, babies chewing ones fingers etc) but, failing those, it's hardly polite to expect others to take one seriously if one can't be bothered to make the effort to express oneself in a comprehensible manner. I don't intend to start nitpicking, but I will continue to delete messages coming from the most persistent offenders. Hilary (NB Ashley wants to dissociate himself from this). Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 20:51:21 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Omentide wrote: > I could challenge you to spell > colour or conceptualisation... What would be the point? I'm sure we're all aware that English has national variations. > That said, whilst I wouldn't bother spellchecking and proofreading a > message to a list the way I would a submission for publication, I do try to > correct any typos. So do I. My point is that it's neither necessary nor a good idea to pick on people who _don't_ catch all their typos. > I confess that I am fairly consistently irritated by those who do not show > the same degree of consideration for their casual mailing list > readers. There are excuses (dyslexia, English not being ones mother > tongue, babies chewing ones fingers etc) but, failing those, it's hardly > polite to expect others to take one seriously if one can't be bothered to > make the effort to express oneself in a comprehensible manner. I'm also annoyed by people who post illiterate crap, but that's not what I'm talking about. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:52:13 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Faith and The Sword David wrote: > (And yes, Elohite is a terrible choice for the Archangel of Faith.) I don't necessarily think that Elohite is a terrible choice for Faith. I do however think that Elohite was a terrible choice for Khalid as Archangel of Faith. A more level headed AA of Faith could work as an Elohite. Unfortunately, Khalid has took many subjective opinions, and isn't afraid to act upon them. (And yes, I know it wasn't David's choice to make Khalid Elohite, nor within his power to change it, so this isn't an attack at him). Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:57:57 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Enanidah=20Kallai?= Subject: RE: IN> Faith and The Sword Forgot I hadn't actually got around to replying to this topic *blush* ;) since it interests me a great deal. - --- Leath Sheales wrote: > > I don't necessarily think that Elohite is a terrible > choice for Faith. I do > however think that Elohite was a terrible choice for > Khalid as Archangel of > Faith. A more level headed AA of Faith could work > as an Elohite. > Unfortunately, Khalid has took many subjective > opinions, and isn't afraid to > act upon them. > I agree with you. But basically what you saying there is Khalid isn't a very good Elohite and that's certainly true. Given the highly reasonable, rational nature of an Elohite I would say that they are the best Choir to promote the Word of Faith, without getting caught up in embodying it. Mortal faiths are contradictory and squabble to the point of war, and most of the other Choirs couldn't handle that aspect of a Word like Faith IMHO. Going through the Choirs... (Generalisations all of course) Seraph - I think would get /extremely/ frustrated by the vast amounts of lying that goes on in this field - especially self deception - and would likely have trouble along the lines of Litheroy wanting to Show the Truth to them. Cherub - I just can't see this one working. Trying to protect Churches or individual Seekers isn't going to work - although there is the example of Novalis for taking a broader view of protection - but I think would perhaps end up being /too/ like Novalis. Drat - I hate having problems expressing myself. Ofanim - I like the writeup of Raziel, (Arch)Angel of the Mysteries too much not to be biased here, but I think that's a far more Ofanim way of getting involved in relgion/faith. Elohim - :) Malakim - Depends on the type of Malakim. Warrior type would work very badly - one focused more on personal honour might actually work out quite well, but they are kind of rare in canon. (Yes this is personal bias) Kyriotate - The other major Choir I think could hold the Word of Faith. They have that multiple view point and the deep understanding of humanity. If I were changing the Choir of the Archangel of Faith in my campaign, it would be changed to Kyrio. Mercurian - It would be just plain mean :) The whole Word causing lots of violence problem. > (And yes, I know it wasn't David's choice to make > Khalid Elohite, nor within > his power to change it, so this isn't an attack at > him). Absolutely. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:25:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Website upgrade... I have, finally, found a better website for my needs: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html The new site isn't pretty, has more rough edges than David's* pillow, and needs bells and whistles, but by _God_ everything is finally on there, and it's going to _stay_ there. Anybody who would like to add links to it on their own site (ahh, hubris) may do so. I'll be emailing certain of you about allowing me to put links of your sites onto mine, just as soon as I actually add a links section, (NTM recover from creating a web site without knowing diddly about HTML)... Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Three Freaking Days, People. Three Freaking Days. *Not David E. or the Other David: the David who has a strange fascination with potholders. ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:55:44 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) After reading (and contributing) to the discussions on Faith and Khalid, I've come to an opinion that the people who originally envisioned the IN line just didn't know how to make a good Elohite Archangel. The two representatives of Elohim we have for Archangels are Jean and Khalid. Neither are really objective enough to support their concept as an Elohite. Jean micromanages, rather than objectively identifying those servitors that don't require these levels of supervision and allowing them to 'get on with the job'. Jean also gives out attunements that cause disturbance. Now I understand the whole 'Lightning brings Thunder' argument, but Elohim are supposed to do the least possible disturbance to the Symphony. Jean tends to assume without any real objective proof that most human technological advances are due to infernal influence. Khalid devotes himself almost entirely to the Muslim religion, and shows more favour to those servitors who are also Muslim. He grew angry with Laurence becoming commander of the host, seeing it as a conspiracy by Dominic, despite the fact that he is an Elohite and should not objectively make that decision, but more importantly despite the fact that he was the Angel of Faith at the time and had a hissy fit because God (whom as Angel of Faith he should have complete Faith in) appointed Laurence and not him. Without the books on me I can't give more examples ATM, and this is mostly just a stream of consciousness, but I think the powers that be behind IN's conception just couldn't get their minds around an Elohite archangel who would not take a permanent stand on an issue when that issue is open to further proof. Leath (or am I just talking crap? Comments welcome.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:20:36 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> The end? At 9:03 PM -0400 08/06/00, Aaron Medwin wrote: >I'm not sure where this came from, but I thought I'd share one moment's odd >thought. [...] Oooh. Nice! (If I had my own way with it, I'd perhaps wait until one more 'Presence' made an appearance before the immortal words were to said. It would bring a sort of irony to the whole mess. . . However, to each their own.) Keep on writing! Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 01:18:04 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) Been checking out the discussion on Elohite Archangels, and my take is this: "Well then, what *would* a good Word for an Elohite Archangel be?" An Elohite's character is built around objectivity, a "bigger picture" view of the world. With this reserve, they can accurately guage and properly respond to emotions without getting caught up in them. OK, now what do we do with this? Redemption "The world is basically good; though sometimes it needs to be shown this." An Elohite Archangel of Redemption could create Servitors who understand what someone is going through, and the trials of spirit they're suffering. Without judging them for the mistakes they've made in the past, they offer a brighter way for the future. They reject the quick solution of killing and destroying evil beings in favor of the slower, hopefully more-profitable solution of turning them to (even back to) the side of Good. Granted, it's a War. Some deaths may be necessary. But especially when dealing with humans, it can be much better to show someone the right path rather than summarily stop them in their tracks on the wrong one. (By the way, I'm currently writing up some treatments of the Word of Redemption; that's probably why this popped into my head first. ;^) ) Such an Archangel might have some interesting opinions on certain facets of Heavenly politics. He might be in favor of contacting the Grigori once more, bringing them back into the fold; making long-term plans for Lilith to exchange her infernal coronet for a place in Heaven; and in terms of relations would probably be coldly hostile to Dominic, friendly with Novalis, and very respectful of Yves(Redemption could be seen as a subword of Destiny, the process of taking people from their Fates and putting them on the road to Destiny). He'd also probably be ready to make friends with Eli and Gabriel. On the Other Side, the demons of Kronos may be almost relieved to have an AA who actively dislikes them, and the Servitors of Asmodeus find the angels of Redemption *much* less accomodating than those of Judgment, preferring to beat the Gamesters to their Renegade and offer shelter... although admittedly, in the Light of Heaven. If Lilith got wind of his plans for her, she'd probably be vastly amused. Or not, if he continually sends his Bright Lilim out to proselytize their sisters. Foresight "The world is Divinely Planned, everything in its pattern." Prometheus extraordinaire, this Archangel encourages humanity to resist the temptation to abandon thought of the consequences, the first step toward so many sins. With a little planning, a lot of heartache can be avoided. With a lot of planning, humanity can reach the heights of cooperative achievement it was meant to. Something as little as taking a moment to walk in someone else's shoes(trying to understand their feelings) can go a long way towards promoting the morals of Heaven. This Archangel would probably be less inclined towards the spontaneous AAs, Gabriel and Eli, or most Ofanites for that matter. The slow, steady pace of Stone and Jean's meticulous planning would probably appeal to him. The Princes most likely to detest this Archangel would be those wrapped up in the moment - Andrealphus especially, and perhaps Haagenti. Both prefer humans to use, to consume, quickly, without regard for later. Comments welcomed, especially as this is my (obligatory disclaimer!) First Post[tm]. ;^) William, pondering petition for the word of Mathematics or Redemption ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 06:10:48 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals > > ***Consider -- if people _are_ bothering to do so (and it's really > > not all that frequent, normally), it _is_ annoying them. The considerate > > thing to do is to make an _effort_ to not outrageously misspell things >-- > >That assumes that people would for some reason misspell things >deliberately. I very much doubt that anyone writes "Seraphs" just for >the purpose of annoying you. > Actually, I hate to say it but my experience with usenet/mailing lists implies that people don't correct grammar/usage typos just because it annoys them, they do it for one-upmanship and as a subtle way of putting the other person down. I think that's fairly unacceptable on a friendly list like this. So remember, if you don't have anything cogent or constructive to say -- just don't say anything at all. And while I'm at it, it bugs the hell out of me when people quote a huge entire post just to add one line on the bottom. But the endless gleeful nitpicking is worse. Beth will have to manage without the Essence, because you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 02:05:34 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Haagenti's Tummy >Apparently. That entry is, officially, The August >2000 Morgan Award for Weirdest Concept Seen On the IN >Digest. Wow.... I'm so flattered I'd like to thank my mother the Biologist and my science teacher Mrs. Simons.. And Super Haagenti Hunter himself. Really it was inspired by all those posts talking about Haagenti's tummy being a gateway to Limbo which I found just strange....Haagenti's stomach isn't bottomless (otherwise no waste jokes) just really really big in my opinion.... Your lucky I didn't write up the "Digestion Demons" Bands.... Let's hope I can win September too if I can resist until then posting a bizzare adventure seed involving Andre, Saminga, the Rocky Horror picture sure (which neither miss but always have been in different cities...until now) and Michael's orders to "make things go nuts...more than usual." (Saw it for the first time today-odd but enjoyable) >I only wish that you could thought it up earlier, so >that I could have addressed it when I wrote up my >Heresy of him... > >:) I'd certainly wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on what exactly *DOES* happen to this bizzare little region once the Demon Prince of Gluttony becomes the Archangel of Zest (my preffered word). >Morgan (FAW) >Kyriotate of Destiny >Petitioner for the Word of In Case You Haven't >Guessed, I Thought That The Idea Was Neat. Freaking >Weird, But Neat. Thank you Thank you. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 06:14:37 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals > >Some of the canon In Nomine language annoys me inordinately. It hurts me >to type Lilim as a singular - it sounds too much like a plural to me. Well, that's tough -- but there really are Hebrew words that show this sort of irregularity. (Like sheep and sheep). jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 02:17:40 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Haagenti's Tummy In a message dated 8/7/00 1:14:11 AM Central Daylight Time, tcp@zoomnet.net writes: << And Super Haagenti Hunter himself. Really it was inspired by all those posts talking about Haagenti's tummy being a gateway to Limbo which I found just strange....Haagenti's stomach isn't bottomless (otherwise no waste jokes) just really really big in my opinion.... >> The idea that Haagenti's stomach has limits just triggered a Python flashback. "Finally, M'sieu, a wafer-thin mint." Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 02:11:36 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: Re: IN> You'd think that I'd come up with somebody really nasty at least once... I like your character. Very orginal and very intriguing. However it strikes me this might actually be more easy than people realize to truly blunt humanity's achievement... Possess Bill Gates, Donald Trump (I know I know he's already a Balseraph), Steve Forbes, etc and just get them to donate money to causes that support the disenchanted who need to become stronger for it. Plus it can count as corruption as the rich are saying... "I've done great things for my country and thus I don't have to mind about sin..." - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 19:05:41 NZST From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> Can I have a Word with you?(was the Faith arguement) Faith - a Word for an Elohite? Some would say, and others would dispute the fact. I think it creates too many factions in the mortal world for an Elohite to properly represent it. Khalid is messed in the head anyway and it makes for interesting televison watching him trying to justify his Faith in God and in Humanity (because the word doesn't just mean religous Faith). Faith for another Archangel. Well, from a choir point of view almost all of them have their problems within their choir nature supporting such a broard concept. Kyriotates I am sure can foster the unique subjective nature of Faith and support it from every angle. A Kyrio AA would be perfect for that, being able to manifest in a human and *understand* his devotion to a cause. Why a member of Jihad will kill for Allah, based on his Faith in God and his lack of Faith in more subtle methods. Why a Christian will raise a sword against a Hebrew because his Faith in the Messiah is so great any word against him is heresy. They sort of multiplicity would be fantastic. So what would you give an Elohite? I think Redemption is not a bad idea. That sort of Word though is a trick to hold. All Archangels are involved in Redemption of the human soul and of the demonic nature to some extent.... except for Jordi. I think that Redemption would be one of those words like Purity. You become a fanatic trying to support your word on Earth and in Heaven when you finally realise that some souls cannot be saved. That would lead an Elohite down to Hell faster than an ExLax waterslide. I think that the history of Khalid shows that the Seraphim Council was a bit hasty to assign the word of Faith. Surely they are aware that Faith is a Superior level word more so than The Sword is! So why did they go and give it to a peon in Uriel's army? Now, I don't have S3 yet because of supply issues in NZ so I may be blowing it out of my butt so indulge me if you will. Uriel was a Christian, and so surely the Angel of Faith would have taken his Superiors values to heart when applying for the word, otherwise Uriel (not being a dummy wanting to shoot himself in the foot) wouldn't have sponsered him. How did the Seraphim Council justify giving Khalid the Word while he was just a lesser angel? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 07:10:23 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Can I have a Word with you?(was the Faith arguement) Alex Liddell wrote: > Uriel was a Christian, and so surely the Angel of Faith would have > taken his Superiors values to heart when applying for the word, otherwise > Uriel (not being a dummy wanting to shoot himself in the foot) wouldn't have > sponsered him. Khalid earned his Word before he became a Muslim. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 09:54:12 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Should Celestials get Music Bonus's? Charles Phipps wrote: > might it be intriguing if each Celestial by nature had some > sort of affinity for the type of music that they seem to embody? > > A seraph and balseraph for instance would get a bonus with stringed > insturments... Heck the seraph write-up says somewhere that you haven't lived until you've heard a seraph play the violin. And there's an Angel of Music and a (Grigori, Outcast) Archangel of Song. So the music terminology is more than metaphor. Sure, I'd give any celestial a pretty high default on some form or other. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 09:55:34 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "Plundering the Bible" Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: > WONDERFUL stuff, Earl. Thank you for doing all my work for me. :) > I gave it a 5. This sort of stuff is what I can *use* in my games. Thank you very much. I'm honored. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:02:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New Principality: Haagenti's Tummy Very imaginative. Reminds me of assorted medieval illustrations in which the entrace to Hell is depicted as the mouth of a monster, and other, even less savory images, often by Hieronymous Bosch. (It also reminds me of one of my four-year-old daughter's favorite videos, "The Magic School Bus for Lunch," in the early-'90s education cartoon explores a kid's digestive tract. Not to mention the '20s-'30s spoof, "Down the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera.") Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:18:11 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> You'd think that I'd come up with somebody really nasty at least once... An interesting concept. I'd think Kobal keeps him because he's good at his assignment and unlikely to get caught by Heaven. But, if by GM intervention, he *is* caught, he sounds like a pretty easy sell. Eli: "Just no way I can let you go on doing this. But if you came over to MY team, you could actually HELP the humans you're fond of, and Kronos isn't the only one who can give attunements to Choirs. You want Grigori? Hey, who do you think CREATED most of the Grigori? Too hard to hide it? I can introduce you to lots of Grigori who have lots of experience in hiding..." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:25:45 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Should Celestials get Music Bonus's? Charles Phipps wrote: > Because Celestials are so musically oreintated with God apparently seeing > himself as a conductor and each demon seeing himself as sort of writing his > own music....might it be intriguing if each Celestial by nature had some > sort of affinity for the type of music that they seem to embody? I explicitly allow this in my campaign, in that the Celestial's choir/band 'preferred instrument' can be played with no default penalty even if the skill is not purchased. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1760 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.