From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 7 15:05:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01825 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:05:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA14880 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:03:29 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:03:29 -0500 Message-Id: <200008072003.PAA14880@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1761 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 7 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1761 In this digest: Re: IN> Gen Con Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) Re: IN> Can I have a Word with you?(was the Faith arguement) Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> Great Books IN> books online Re: IN> New Printing = New Revision? Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> Symphony Domination Handbook 1.1 Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) Re: IN> IN Cover Re: IN> Gen Con Re: IN> Novalis Servitor attunement question IN> [ADMIN] Getting rid of MIME/HTML Re: IN> New Printing = New Revision? Re: IN> New Fire Attunements (was re: Habbalated) Re: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony Re: IN> Pronounciation: was Long Thoughts About Plurals RE: IN> Faith and The Sword IN> Fwd: Corpreal Artifacts IN> Fwd: Article in today's Pyramid Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Fwd: Re: IN> Dominic IN> Fwd: Human vessels/bodies Fwd: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals Alternate Choirs (was:Re: IN> Faith and The Sword) Re: Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Faith and The Sword Re: IN> Faith and The Sword ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 09:50:13 -0600 From: shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Gen Con Bull wrote: > > I know there are a couple of games listed in the Pre-Reg book, but is SJG > gonna be at GC this year in any official copacity or anything? There will be a number of the MIB at the Atlas booth, but SJ Games will not be there with its own booth. > Even better, and In Nomine "big wigs" gonna be around? :] Just got a white > HB off eBay, and wondering if anyone will be around to sign autographs :] John Karakash will be there on his own dime, but aside from him, I haven't heard about any other In Nomine people being there. > Shadowcat SJ Games Gen Con Con Liason. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:38:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The Symphony Scream Maurice Lane wrote: > OTOH, I don't want to do something like Twain's story > about a sea captain visiting Heaven (lots of aliens, > all of whom have their own section of Heaven, which > frankly is much larger than that of humanity's*): I > don't want to warp stuff too much. The poor saps I'm > thinking of recruiting may actually want to play a > more normal IN game someday. :) Sounds like you just want to indicate that Heaven takes account of aliens, that they are part of the system. In that case, just drop hints. E.g., have an Archangel or a widely-traveled celestial remark in passing to the PCs, "People on this planet are so cynical / naive / salty / furless / excitable / heterotrophic / whatever," and let it go at that. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:22:10 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) > "Well then, what *would* a good Word for an Elohite Archangel be?" > Redemption This got me thinking. I don't like really specific words, so I pondered what greater theme Redemption was part of... and figured it'd be Hope. Hope is basically a subset of Dreams, which is Blandine, and she's a Cherub. Which sort of makes more sense than an Elohite for Redemption, if you think about it. Admit it -- if you were a demon, who would *you* rather go to, a Cherub or an Elohite? :-) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:24:40 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Can I have a Word with you?(was the Faith arguement) > > Uriel was a Christian, and so surely the Angel of Faith would have > > taken his Superiors values to heart when applying for the word, otherwise > > Uriel (not being a dummy wanting to shoot himself in the foot) wouldn't have > > sponsered him. > > Khalid earned his Word before he became a Muslim. Hmm, but Laurence was a Christian before he earned his Word, right? And Khalid, presumably, was neither Christian nor Muslim. That would give some insight into why Laurence was promoted and why Khalid was not, if you wanted to play a darker game. > -David Ben (and I don't) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 11:28:26 -0600 From: shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword David Edelstein wrote: > > Alex Liddell wrote: > > > > Question. > > > > Who ever said that Faith was exclusive to Muslim? Khalid is an Elohite is > > he not. Subjectivity is like a slap in the face to them. I think they > > missed that a little bit in The Final Trumpet. They seemed to put Khalid's > > Fall in terms of him loosing Faith in God and his Word rather than his > > Elohite nature of remaining impartial and ultimately objective. > > > > I would like to hear some thoughts on Khalid with regard to his "one eyed" > > nature of God and the Superior opinions of him. > > See S3, where I did my best to "fix" Khalid. No offense to David, but I think Kalid as written is broken beyond repair. He still comes off as a zealot of the highest order. My way or the Highway type. He also gives the stereotypical american view of muslims "Rag headed fanatics who kill anyone that disagrees with them." [note I have a few muslim friends so this is NOT my view.] I had an idea for an angel of faith that is Wiccan, but the problem is the way he is written Kalid would take this angel and reform it, because it is worse then a nonbeliever, it is leading people astray, and to hell in his viewing. The lens of making him more of a Sunni mystic seemed to fit my game a little better, but it seemed to be a throw away idea, in a side bar. IMHO more worked needed to be done on Kalid before he was "set loose" on the In Nomine universe. > (And yes, Elohite is a terrible choice for the Archangel of Faith.) If you use the Sunni lens he works all right as an Elohite. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 11:36:42 -0600 From: shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Great Books Greetings. I read a series of comics a few months ago called "Proposition Player" by DC/Vertigo. It deals with a gambler who buys the souls of his friends fro a beer each and the efforts of Heaven and Hell to get them back. Though not straight line In Nomine, it gives a good view that not all demons are to bad, and not all angels are good two shoes. The representation of Michael, is disturbing, he may be even more of an SOB then in a cannon game. I don't know if there has been a Graphic novel put out of it, but the final issue is dated May 2000, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 16:38:49 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: IN> books online I thought this might be of interest - haven't read it myself. (I got this from 'The Register', which is always a good source for techie news.) jo - -- J Michael Straczynski, the creator of Babylon 5, is to publish his new novel Tribulations, in its entirety on the Web, for free. But it's not yours to keep. The book, described as "one part thriller and one part pure fantasy complete with supernatural visitations, priests, soldiers of light, politics and lots of humor", is to be published in four weekly instalments on the US site Bookface.com. The first episode is out today. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:46:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Bowman Subject: Re: IN> New Printing = New Revision? On Sat, 5 Aug 2000, I Savoy wrote: > Hi, I've been lurking here for about a month or so, and sitting on > the fence about buying the game for over a year. I would have to say I > dont like the new cover either :) but one of the things that were > keeping me at bay, was all the errata and difficulty of finding things > in the book I've been told about. Does anyone know if the new hardback > will be a revision with all the corrections and what not in it?? Or > should I run out and grab the old book (And I was planning on the > Corporeal Guide as well) while I still can?? Thanks! The new printing should include all the errata for the 1st printing. Russell Godwin asked us for anything *not* already posted, and Elizabeth sent in quite a bit of additional material (almost all of which has been posted, I hope to post the rest tonight). Michael Bowman almost ex-Errata Coordinator ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:07:54 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword > He still comes off as a zealot of the highest order. My way or the Highway > type. He also gives the stereotypical american view of muslims "Rag headed Laurence is similar; most of the Archangels probably are. How many times do you think an Archangel hears the words, "Um, boss, I think you're wrong."? Archangels are, by definition, zealots. :-) > fanatics who kill anyone that disagrees with them." [note I have a few muslim > friends so this is NOT my view.] I have NO Muslim friends, so this IS my view! ... ... Ok, I got that pet peeve out of my system. > IMHO more worked needed to be done on Kalid before he was "set loose" on the > In Nomine universe. Would an Elohite Archangel of Faith work if he didn't support any one particular religion? Imagine you're the Seraphim Council in the late 8th century, and you've just seen Uriel's crusade and removal. The religions of the world are reeling from the slaughter, and you're a little worried -- did Uriel really know what he was doing? We could appoint a Seraph to investigate it, but that would be another Uriel if the Seraph decides Uriel was *right*... and if we appoint a Kyriotate, we reopen all the old wounds of the Purity Crusades by having an Archangel that supports all religions! Now, an *Elohite* -- he could be unbiased to any religion. He'd give us an objective answer to our questions, but he'd be fair to all the beliefs and would heal the wounds of the Purity Crusade. And hey, there's Khalid -- Uriel's right-hand man, the Angel of Faith. He's more than qualified -- he even has the right Word! > Shadowcat Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:15:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Bowman Subject: Re: IN> Symphony Domination Handbook 1.1 On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, David Streeter wrote: > How different is the new Core Rules Hardback going to be in content? Limited > to the errata? A change in organisation? (please please please). I believe that it is limited to errata. I thought one of GURPS In Nomine's strengths was the organization, which is far suprior to the IN main book. Michael Bowman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:29:36 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword From: "shadowcat" > David Edelstein wrote: > > > > See S3, where I did my best to "fix" Khalid. > > No offense to David, but I think Kalid as written is broken beyond repair. > He still comes off as a zealot of the highest order. But nowhere near so much as he did in The Final Trumpet. > He also gives the stereotypical american view of muslims "Rag headed > fanatics who kill anyone that disagrees with them." Not anymore, he doesn't. The notes about how his distinctions had been changed from their previous versions did a lot to dispel this image of him, as well as the discussions of how he no longer supports terrorists among his followers. > I had an idea for an angel of faith that is Wiccan, but the problem is the > way he is written Kalid would take this angel and reform it, because it is > worse then a nonbeliever, it is leading people astray, and to hell in his viewing. That is because Wiccan practices channel essence to Ethereal Gods rather than to Heaven. > If you use the Sunni lens he works all right as an Elohite. If you take into account that he skirted Falling, and has only recently begun changing behaviors that he relied on for centuries, he still works all right. At least for me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 13:46:42 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) - --On Monday, August 7, 2000 9:22 AM -0600 ben wrote: >> "Well then, what *would* a good Word for an Elohite Archangel be?" > >> Redemption > > This got me thinking. I don't like really specific words, so I > pondered what greater theme Redemption was part of... and figured > it'd be Hope. Hope is basically a subset of Dreams, which is > Blandine, and she's a Cherub. > > Which sort of makes more sense than an Elohite for Redemption, if > you think about it. Admit it -- if you were a demon, who would > *you* rather go to, a Cherub or an Elohite? :-) > > Ben > > Humph! Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:13:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN Cover My totally personal take is that in the best of all worlds, the GIN cover would have been the Flaming Feather with the GURPS border, and the reprint would have the GIN cover... But then, I'm a huge proponent of Babes On Covers, and the reprint cover has no Babe. (Yes, a reasonably-garbed, not over-endowed babe does entice me more than a Just Guys cover.) - --Beth, on her own time "Gabriel looks good in glossy." -- EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:25:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Gen Con At 11:06 PM -0400 8/5/00, Bull wrote: >I know there are a couple of games listed in the Pre-Reg book, but is SJG >gonna be at GC this year in any official copacity or anything? I doubt they'll have a booth, but I've heard runors that Kromm, at least, will be around. >Even better, and In Nomine "big wigs" gonna be around? :] Just got a white >HB off eBay, and wondering if anyone will be around to sign autographs :] Heh --not I, I fear. See da .sig... Anyone else needs must speak for themselves. - --Beth, typing w/a baby (iolanthe) on her chest. Vapitalizatoin & spelling difficult, typing w/1 hand & supporting baby w/other. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:32:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Novalis Servitor attunement question At 11:23 PM +0000 8/6/00, Janet Anderson wrote: >When a Servitor of Novalis uses the attunement "Nothing But Flowers," what >is the volume of plants or flowers required for it to work? GM's option. Based on what I recall the wording is, the angel should manage to be "totally" concealed by the plant/flowers for it to work. Sorta like E.T. in the plushie-toy line-up. >Will it only work outside, or will it >work inside if the plants in question are alive (large planters, a >greenhouse, a garden show exhibit)? I'd let it work anywhere a sufficient number of flowers/plants were, inside or out. I'd let it work for fresh-cut flowers too, personally. Oooo, eerie thought -- let it work for even dead plant matter; give to a Malakite of Flowers; insert PC demons into the everything-dead greenhouse (like in _Uninvited_, IIRC). Let them wonder if the Virtue's decided they've given him/her No Other Choice... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:33:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Getting rid of MIME/HTML Once again... >From: "Prodigal" >Subject: IN> Getting rid of MIME/HTML >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:05:57 -0500 > >From: Elizabeth McCoy >> >>Microsoft emailers and browser/emailers are particularly prone to sending >>stuff in MIME or HTML. There are at least _two_ preference toggles you >>have to turn off to get plain text. > >It's actually a little easier than that, with Outlook Express at least. > >In the Options window, there's an option to reply to messages in the format >that they were sent in, which takes care of it, IF you are replying to a >plain text message. > >If you're replying to a message in HTML or posting one that is not a reply, >just click Format, and choose Plain Text. It's what I do, to make sure I >don't violate the spirit of the list (or since this is about IN, would that >be "the celestial ofthe list" instead?) > >> However, that is a small price to pay to >> avoid having the Djinn Princess of List Admin feed your toes to her >Shedim.) > >Not to mention good sense. ;) > >Azzur, Malakim of the Sword >In Service to Protection >Whose Oaths include "I will not post HTML messages to the list." > - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:33:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Printing = New Revision? Numreo Uno, turn off the HTML, please... (What you see below is the _only_ way that I was able to read your stuff, and it is the only way the digest will be able to read it. Think about it...) At 10:06 PM -0300 8/5/00, I Savoy wrote: >"-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > > > > > > >
    Hi, I've been lurking here for >about a month or so, and sitting on the fence about buying the game for over a >year. I would have to say I dont like the new cover either :) but one of the >things that were keeping me at bay, was all the errata and difficulty of >finding things in the book I've been told about. Does anyone know if the new >hardback will be a revision with all the corrections and what not in it?? Or >should I run out and grab the old book (And I was planning on the Corporeal >Guide as well) while I still can?? Thanks!
> It will have all the listed errata corrected within reason for How Many Pages it's gone through. For various reasons I won't go into, the capitalizations in it are Often Wrong (No, I didn't get long enough to proof the thing after the errata tweaks), but at least the worst errata ought to be fixed. The organization is not, but I can give you Beth's Patented Order Of Reading.... Which is: Read the story first, or not, depending on how you like gaming fiction. Be aware that there are at least three instances where the story does not match the rules as written. (Mercurian dissonance, durations of Song of Possession and Song of Form, and maybe it's even messed up for Song of Motion these days; I'd have to check.) Read forward (skimming the "What A Roleplaying Game Is" stuff if you already know) till you get to the d666 mechanics. Go read the Choirs&Bands&Superiors&Heaven&Hell chapter. Go back and read all the stuff from the d666 on. Read the last section, which has the sample characters, celestial spirits (relievers and demonlings), and general Stuff in it. Make a mental note, while reading the mechanics chapter, that the Song performance rules are _not_ next to the Songs themselves. (This is, to my mind, THE most glaring, evil, horrible error in the whole organization of the book.) They are probably next to a picture I call "Mr. Bubblehead," who makes a good "eyecatch" for when you're flipping through trying to find the Song invocation mechanics. To answer someone else's question, no, the reprint will not be in color. It will be in B&W and Grayscale. However, most of that art also appeared in grayscale in GURPS In Nomine, so I can assure you that it still looks pretty darn good. (Unless you hate Smif's work, in which case you won't like it. C'est la vie.) It _does_ have the "Restricted" tags, introduced in the Superiors books and GIN. The reprint is _not_ second edition. Much as I would have liked that to be the case. Emergency C-sections and all that. O:p (Go back and read the Feb-March digests for this year for _that_ teapotted tempest.) It does have some of the stuff I'd have intended to fix, though. I am planning, when I get a sleeping baby and two braincells to rub together, to go through the draft I have and send in the errata to the errata coordinator... Heh heh heh. To get errata cleared up, check out www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata -- it makes error-fixing about as painless as possible without being able to install "patches" electronically. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:33:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Fire Attunements (was re: Habbalated) At 1:05 PM -0400 8/3/00, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >Alex, you're absolutely right about Gabriel's attunements, IMO. It's very >unfair that her Ofanim and Malakim get cool powers while everyone else >just gets the duty. I have been using the following attunements, which I >think balance things out a bit. (For the record, these MAY be included in >the INC. :) Hrm. I'm not sure if they belong in the INC or not. At least three of them are just cribbed, apparently, straight from a previous draft of IN proper: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/choirs/gabriel.html The ones which aren't straight from there, certs, are fodder as original material. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:33:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Yves=Adam? (was Re: IN> Michael vs Yves vs God) At 9:46 PM +0100 8/3/00, Omentide wrote: > The whole game has serious problems >with water and Binah equates with the primal oceans (amongst other things), >also with strong feminine stuff (which IN also tends to lack). My brain just fractured in a skew way... Should I, if an opportunity should appear, see if I can sell TPTB on Oannes as primarily female, though maybe only in a 60-40% split? (To explain all the male refs... Curse the english language fixation on neuter/unknown = "he," anyway...) >>Alternately, assuming that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of the entire >>human race, the "fragment" of Yves means that all human beings have a >>touch of divinity in them, making them "embryonic gods". Despite the >>seeming handicap of the 15-Force ceiling for humans, every member of the >>human race has the potential to become something *much* greater than even >>the most powerful Archangel. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:33:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Still Hear You Disturb The Symphony At 5:23 PM -0700 8/3/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: >>> The only thing that concerns me with doing the >above >>> is that, with a corporeal population in the >>> quadrillions, Word-bound might be _insanely_ >>>powerful. [...] >>But in no way does "More Humans" equal "More Word >>Power".- -- >>Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, >Q4B4L! > >True, but "More Humans" _does_ equal "More Essence". >[....] And you can do _so_ much with Essence ... :) If one is going to expand the playing field that much, I'd probably suggest giving a few of the less-powerful "Superior Abilities" to the BIG Word-bound -- namely, the Instantiations/Manifestations one from the GMG, letting major Word-bound throw around those huge amounts of Essence to create more manifestations of themselves. Place some extreme restrictions (only one manifestation per world, or you paralyze yourself in a feedback loop), and presto -- you've expanded their power a lot on the "macro" level, while keeping them about the same on the "micro" level that most PCs are going to be coping with. Either that, or make that Song of whatever-it-is-that- lets-other-Songs-have-hugemongeous-ranges, in the Heavily Dangerous section of the LCant, be given out to Word-bound more often -- that means they're using it to Song of Motion themselves around the planets they're interested in, which also can burn Essence like ... um, was going to say water, but the simile (metaphor?) broke down into cognative dissonance. At 6:53 PM -0700 8/3/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >------------------------------Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 >10:22:33 -0700 (PDT) >From: Guy Royse >Subject: Re: IN> In Space, Everyone Can Hear The >Symphony Scream > >>Do you have any thoughts on extra-terrestials and >>perhaps their effects on the Marches? Or the Far >>Marches? >>Guy > >The entire issue of aliens will be a tough one. As I >see it, there are several choices: > >1) No aliens at all. Humanity is it. Requires >almost no tweaking, but I'd find it boring. Go flip through GURPS Bio-Tech, think Gengineering, and then say it's boring. (Or, if you can't stand GURPS, go read Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan stuff. In fact, go read Bujold anyway... Then imagine Laurence's reaction upon being exposed to Miles in full Forward Momentum.) (I, personally, envision the AA of the Sword just sort of standing there with his jaw hanging open, trying to decide if he wants to run screaming or recruit the little human right there...) >2b) Aliens, and they're tied into the entire >Heaven/Hell scheme. Simple, but it does beg the >question, "So why haven't they shown up in Heaven or >Hell before?" (I'll get away with it, 'cuz I'll be >recruiting newbies to play, hopefully, but it is a >stylistic hole). I may run with this one anyway, >because it occurs to me that other races might find >certain Choirs to fit in with their mindset in the >same way that Mercurians do with homo sapiens. That'd >be neat. That's one of the notions I had, for aliens, yup, yup. As for why they haven't shown up in Heaven... Remember, the main book calls that the _Earthly_ Heavens! Maybe this doesn't _just_ mean there are Higher Heavens, but there are also Rigelian Heavens... (Sure, the AAs know about them, and are maybe over there as well (why do you _think_ they're so busy??); they just don't bother to tell any of their Servitors.) ((To get even further into weirdity... In the IN IOU convention characters, where we turn our standard IOU convention pre-gens into celestials, the alien psi- musician becomes.... an Elohite of Eli. From another world. Who is _not_ dissonant, _not_ Outcast, but is pretending to be, because he's not quite sure why the Boss dropped him onto _this_ planet after he hauled his little glowing backside out of some other-worldly trouble...)) At 11:44 AM -0400 8/4/00, Krishnaswami, Neel wrote: >IMC, there were plenty of aliens. Every alien race, when it was created, >had some sort of equivalent to the Garden of Eden test. So far, humanity >was the only species (besides the celestials themselves) that had failed, >so all the other species lived a utopian life, and then died and went >straight to the higher heavens. And people wonder how _Book of Night with Moon_ (and, frankly, all the other "So You Want To Be A Wizard?" series books) relate to IN. Ignore the talking cat-mages -- it's all about the relations that drive the stories. It's about thwarting "the Eldest, Fairest, and Fallen." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:45:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pronounciation: was Long Thoughts About Plurals At 7:18 PM -0600 8/6/00, ben wrote: >I say OFF-a-nim, but one of my In Nomine groups says, Oh-FAN-im. > >Which is correct? Beats me -- you'd have to go to the Hebrew (?) for that. But I use "oh-FAN-im" myself... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:49:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Faith and The Sword At 11:52 AM +1000 8/7/00, Leath Sheales wrote: >(And yes, I know it wasn't David's choice to make Khalid Elohite, nor within >his power to change it, so this isn't an attack at him). Hope it's not on me, either -- I wasn't LE when it was decided. (I was voting for Cherub, myself.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:00:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Corpreal Artifacts >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:55:59 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Diana Rickel ] >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 20:41:21 -0700 >From: Diana Rickel >Reply-To: dianajr@worldnet.att.net >Subject: Corpreal Artifacts > >I have found that corpreal artifacts have a character point cost equal >th their level as a resource, but where do I find their level as a >resource? > >-- >----------------------------------------------------- >Click here for Free Video!! >http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:00:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Article in today's Pyramid >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:32:01 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Thomas J Howell ] >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) >From: Thomas J Howell >Subject: IN> Article in today's Pyramid > >Kudos to Mr. Wajenberg for a fun article on biblical relics. Lots of >plot seeds here. Anyone know of some good books on the subject? >The hints about the relic trade were especially curious. > >TJ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 19:38:07 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Elohite Archangels (was Faith and the Sword) >"Well then, what *would* a good Word for an Elohite Archangel be?" Like he said, Mathematics. Philosophy. Any -ology (OK, maybe not Corrective Phrenology - let's limit it to -ologies which only have one word). The Jury System. Weights and Measures. Education, meditation, contemplation. And, above all, Semantics. Or maybe, it's the ideal would be the Archangel of Semiology. Hilary Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 19:43:17 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals >Well, that's tough -- but there really are Hebrew words that show this >sort of irregularity. (Like sheep and sheep). And Habbalah and Habbalah. Uncanonical, I know, but I prefer it. It's what I would use in IMC. For Lilim I prefer Daughter(s) of Lilith. Which, last night, provoked a long discussion round here about whether or not Lilith was capable of producing children by biological methods. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:03:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Dominic >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:16:30 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\b u n s\w*b/i at line 8 > >From: "Alex Liddell" >Subject: Re: IN> Dominic >Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:16:00 NZST > >>Prodigal wrote >>Which is the job that God gave him, yes. > >Yeah, but to the extent of becoming to proud of his own position and far to >strict on himself. God gave Eli the job of creation, but he has abandoned >that. You don't see God getting involved in Gabriel's insanity either. God >gave the job, but it is Dominic's interpretation of the Word that matters. >He tried Michael for promoting his word in an "u n s uitable" manner, yet he >thinks it perfectly alright to claim that he is supposed to see everything, >and it surprises him when he doesn't, as though God has cheated him out of a >revelation. > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:04:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Human vessels/bodies >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:41:24 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Nathan Henderson ] >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:38:21 -0500 >From: Nathan Henderson >Subject: Human vessels/bodies > > I'm sorry I have to ask this, but the IN core book and the Corporeal >Player's Guide contradict on this point and the errata is still >unclear. Do humans gain any free 'vessel level' for calculating body >hits, or are they limited to the two levels of toughness that they may >purchase? > Sorry, but I just remembered something else I had been wondering >about: In canonical In Nomine, does Magog survive the events of Final >Trumpet? > Thank you for your time. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:05:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:50:27 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Adam Benedict Canning" ] >Status: U >From: "Adam Benedict Canning" >Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:49:07 +0100 > >> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:04:20 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Maurice Lane >> Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy >> >> >> Cute (as were the other suggestions by various and >> sundry), but I was looking for a formal designation. >> My fault for not being clearer. >> >> I mean, these guys must have official meetings and >> stuff sometimes, right? What's the title on the >> official letterhead of Hell's ruling oligarchy?* > >The Committee for Public Safety. > >Adam > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:56:04 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Long Thoughts About Plurals From: "Omentide" > > For Lilim I prefer Daughter(s) of Lilith. Which, last night, provoked a > long discussion round here about whether or not Lilith was capable of > producing children by biological methods. I could make a joke about menopause here, but I think it would be safer not to. ;;;) On a somewhat more serious note, I expect that Lilith *could* reproduce normally, but that she would not do so by choice. Although having her undergoing weird cravings could make for an amusing adventure seed, as any number of Frees try to bargain their way out of their Geases in return for getting Mom whatever her current Needs happen to be. (I said "somewhat more serious," not "completely more.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:15:16 -0500 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Alternate Choirs (was:Re: IN> Faith and The Sword) - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:47 PM Subject: RE: IN> Faith and The Sword >At 11:52 AM +1000 8/7/00, Leath Sheales wrote: > >>(And yes, I know it wasn't David's choice to make Khalid Elohite, nor within >>his power to change it, so this isn't an attack at him). > >Hope it's not on me, either -- I wasn't LE when it was decided. (I was voting >for Cherub, myself.) If I ever run In Nomine, I've considered altering the choir of a couple of Archangels. Making Khalid a Cherub and Marc a Kyriotate are at the top of the list, though I'm kicking around a few others as well. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:17:51 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Re: IN> Dominic From: "Alex Liddell" > >>Prodigal wrote >>Which is the job that God gave him, yes. > >Yeah, but to the extent of becoming to proud of his own position and far to >strict on himself. I don't see Dominic being at all guilty of pride. He holds the Host up to incredibly strict standards, yes, but if that results in a failing of his, it is that of trying to overcompensate for his greatest failure in not doing enough to prevent the Rebellion. > God gave Eli the job of creation, but he has abandoned that. I don't see that at all. To the contrary, I see Eli as working to fulfill his Word among humanity, rather than among the host. > God gave the job, but it is Dominic's interpretation of the Word that matters. Just as it is Michael's interpretation of War that matters, or Janus' interpretation of Wind, or Novalis' of Flowers. >He tried Michael for promoting his word in an "u n s uitable" manner, Because he felt that Michael's actions glorified the individual above Heaven. > yet he thinks it perfectly alright to claim that he is supposed to see everything, >and it surprises him when he doesn't, as though God has cheated him out of a >revelation. Anyone who has ever been given a complex job without the tools needed to carry out that job will feel at least some resentment, and Dominic is not immune to this. It would be easy to pass Judgement if the absolute right and wrong of a situation were known, after all. But when ambiguity creeps in, and the Truth of a situation is not clear enough for a decision to be absolutely certain, the stress it places over one whose greatest priority is to avoid making the same mistake that he made with Lucifer ever again is enough to shatter brick. (Ya know, the the debate over Dominic rages, the more sympathetic I find him...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:10:04 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword shadowcat wrote: > He still comes off as a zealot of the highest order. My way or the Highway > type. Well, in that respect, he's no different from Dominic, Laurence, Uriel, and to a lesser extent, David, Jordi, and Michael. > He also gives the stereotypical american view of muslims "Rag headed > fanatics who kill anyone that disagrees with them." You think he still comes off that way even from the S3 writeup? I'm disappointed. >I had an idea for an angel of faith that is Wiccan, That would never fly in canon, since Wiccan is by definition pagan. If Khalid didn't reform him, Dominic would fry him. > IMHO more worked needed to be done on Kalid before he was "set loose" on the > In Nomine universe. I don't think having a Muslim Archangel is a bad thing. It's the fanaticism that needed work. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:11:14 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Faith and The Sword ben wrote: > I have NO Muslim friends, so this IS my view! You are joking, right? - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1761 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.