From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 10 20:56:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03669 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:56:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA23026 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:55:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:55:25 -0500 Message-Id: <200008110155.UAA23026@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1768 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1768 In this digest: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Great Books Re: IN> Game Re: IN> Game Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN Re: IN> Selfish vs Cruel (was: Expanded Fire Attunements) Re: IN> Great Books Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN Re: IN> Re> IN: Game IN> Re> IN: Game Re: IN> Re> IN: Game IN> Superior Trauma Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Superior Trauma Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Fwd: Re: IN> Game Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma Re: IN> Superior Trauma Re: IN> Superior Trauma IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Bright Question. Re: IN> Bright Question. Re: IN> Bright Question. IN> Laurence the True Christian Re: IN> Laurence the True Christian IN> Angels of Fire RE: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma RE: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma RE: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:49:40 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) In a message dated 8/10/00 4:43:52 AM Central Daylight Time, prime@the.net.nz writes: << Sam Vimes as a Servitor of Gabriel, of course. >> Gabriel? How do you figure? If I must classify him as a celestial I see him perhaps as a rather cynical Malakite, driven by his own personal code of honor. But that doesn't really work. I see Vimes as very, very human. It's what makes him so cool. :) Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 04:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) > Sam Vimes as a Servitor of Gabriel, of course. Um, no. Soldier of Judgement. > Carrot as something of the Sword. Probably a Malakite. > Definitely with Master of the Armies of God, too. Soldier of Novalis. He defused more fights than he started... > I don't want to think about Colon and Nobby. Oh, do. Do. > Susan as an unwilling Soldier of Judgement (with a sense of > humor) Hmmmm. This doesn't feel right, but I'll have to get back to you... > Death poised to teach Saminga a thing or two about who's > REALLY in charge. I HAVE FACED COMPETITORS BEFORE, said the skeletal figure, scythe held in bony fingers. THE AUDITORS OF REALITY COULD NOT STOP ME. NOW YOU PROPOSE TO. INTERESTING. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT CATS? > The image of Mustrum Ridcully as a jovial Soldier of Flowers > is thoroughly disturbing but at once strangely compelling... The ArchChancellor???? Too grumpy for Flowers. Too hard-headed. > Nanny Ogg as a Mercurian of Trade. Soldier of Creation, in service to Trade... > Granny Weatherwax as an ex-Impudite (damn family) Mercurian of > Stone. Soldier of Stone, but okay. > And Rincewind as Kobal's best joke -ever-. Okay. > Even the Librarian wasn't that funny. I see the Librarian as a big-time Servant to Yves. After all, it was his Destiny to become an orangutan... ===== ** The trouble with being the Best Man at a wedding is that you never get to prove it. ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 04:15:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Great Books > James Morrow > Towing Jehovah > Blameless in Abaddon I like Blameless in Abaddon better of the the two (three, actually, since I read the third in the series, too). The Make-A-Wish Foundation for terminally-ill pets made me a bit misty-eyed... I personally like Only Begotten Daughter and Bible Stories for Adults, both by Morrow. O. ===== ** The trouble with being the Best Man at a wedding is that you never get to prove it. ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:26:09 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Game BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > > Anyone here a Terry Pratchett Discworld fan? Ever read Small Gods? > Doesn't Vorbis bear a disturbing resemblance to Asmodeus? Nah, he's more like the Patrician. He makes people jump through stupid hoops; sneers at them when they obey; and when 50 or 60 people gather to compare notes they find out each person's meaningless hoop was a step in his master plan, which it is always too late to stop. True, Lord Vetinari uses peoples' base motives to achieve apparently "good" ends, but that's just Asmodeus playing with a handicap because the Creator of the Discworld is clearly not a great player. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:35:42 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Game - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:26 AM Subject: Re: IN> Game > BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > > > > Anyone here a Terry Pratchett Discworld fan? Ever read Small Gods? > > Doesn't Vorbis bear a disturbing resemblance to Asmodeus? > > Nah, he's more like the Patrician. He makes people jump through > stupid hoops; sneers at them when they obey; and when 50 or 60 > people gather to compare notes they find out each person's meaningless > hoop was a step in his master plan, which it is always too late > to stop. > > True, Lord Vetinari uses peoples' base motives to achieve apparently > "good" ends, but that's just Asmodeus playing with a handicap because > the Creator of the Discworld is clearly not a great player. :) Eh? Except for the "good" ends, I'd always thought that the Patrician would be a great model for Lucifer. He's got the intellect and he's got the cold style. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:48:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Assuming that the "God is an ethereal on steroids" > theory is true, imagine what would happen if one of > the pantheons actually worked out the trick that let > Yahweh pump himself up. Heck, let all of the > pantheons work it out. The more, the merrier*. [snip] > And let's not even start about how little Athena, say, > gives a sh** about keeping the corporeal world unaware > about the True State of Affairs... :) You are an evil, evil man... and I want to be just like you when I grow up! };;;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "And on the 8th day God created gamers, and he looked down from Heaven and said, 'It is... well... uh...'" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:59:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Selfish vs Cruel (was: Expanded Fire Attunements) - --- "O. S. Kerr" wrote: > If memory serves, the Fire Attunements only ping on cruel > individuals, not selfish ones (though a Mercurian of Fire might > pick up on this in certain circumstances). Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that one. OK, maybe Impudites can slide by. > There is nothing in canon that states that an average Impudite > must be cruel to those he drains of Essence. In many cases, > cruelty would be counter to his purposes. An effective Impudite > may very well be the least-cruel individual that a Servitor of > Fire ever bumps into. > > Encouraging humanity to be selfish is not, by definition, an act > of cruelty. True. But much of what demons do goes beyond merely encouraging people to be selfish. Even promoting selfishness can be construed as cruelty if the demon _knows_ that some other mortal is going to suffer for the actions of his current pet project. Besides which, Hell gets some of its Essence by torturing the damned (as I mentioned in another post). That alone qualifies as cruelty under the Seraph of Fire Attunement (knowingly profitting from the suffering of others) unless we limit the definition of cruelty to acts committed against the living. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "And on the 8th day God created gamers, and he looked down from Heaven and said, 'It is... well... uh...'" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 06:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Great Books While we're on the subject of literature, see the short story "The Fifty-first Dragon" for a 1st-rate depiction of a Soldier of Purity. I believe the author is James Thurber. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "And on the 8th day God created gamers, and he looked down from Heaven and said, 'It is... well... uh...'" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:27:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN Maurice Lane wrote: > And let's not even start about how little Athena, say, > gives a sh** about keeping the corporeal world unaware > about the True State of Affairs... :) Indeed, the Corporeal Plane is in for a thin time of it, if you allow multiple pantheons to learn the trick. You would then have multiple "omnipotences" having aa competitive apocalypse contest all over the asteroid belt that used to be Earth... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:41:11 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re> IN: Game David M. Barr wrote: > >Doesn't Vorbis bear a disturbing resemblance to >Asmodeus? > Aside from being a turtle, you mean? No, Vorbis was the sinister, scheming priest. Om was the god accidentally incarnate as a turtle. (There's good eating on those, you know...) To drag this back to IN, I second the vote for the Patrician as a good role-model for a bright-but-low-contrast redeemed Asmodeus. By the way, the name "Metatron" means "behind the throne," which, as far as I can tell, means Metatron was originally conceived as God's grand vizier. An unnerving concept, if you cross it with the sinister-schemer stereotype we now have for that post. I resolve the contrast by putting Metatron in charge of Mysterious Ways, as in "The Lord moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform." Metatron died in the Fall? Of, sure, that's the *story*. He may well have been the first celestial to suffer Trauma, but that was a long time ago.. Earl Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:07:39 GMT From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> Re> IN: Game >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Re> IN: Game >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:41:11 -0500 >By the way, the name "Metatron" means "behind the throne," >which, as far as I can tell, means Metatron was originally >conceived as God's grand vizier. An unnerving concept, if you >cross it with the sinister-schemer stereotype we now have for >that post. I resolve the contrast by putting Metatron in >charge of Mysterious Ways, as in "The Lord moves in mysterious >ways, His wonders to perform." > >Metatron died in the Fall? Of, sure, that's the *story*. He >may well have been the first celestial to suffer Trauma, but >that was a long time ago.. 22,000 years of Trauma? Either somebody's got a Will of 1 or he blew several Infernal Interventions in a row on his Trauma rolls, or both. :-) - -- Chuckg ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:17:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re> IN: Game Charles Glasgow wrote: > >Metatron died in the Fall? Of, sure, that's the *story*. He > >may well have been the first celestial to suffer Trauma, but > >that was a long time ago.. > > 22,000 years of Trauma? No, I was thinking more like a year of Trauma, 21,999 years ago. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:28:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Superior Trauma > > 22,000 years of Trauma? > > No, I was thinking more like a year of Trauma, 21,999 years ago. Come to think of it, are there any canonical records of Superiors suffering Trauma at all? Do we know how they react? If they (the Heavenly ones, anyway) can manufacture Trauma-proof Malakim, shouldn't they be Trauma-proof themselves? And if one brought Metatron back on stage, he might well be *above* Superior level. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:40:58 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) From: "O. S. Kerr" > > > I don't want to think about Colon and Nobby. > > Oh, do. Do. Nobby is *definitely* serving Theft. > > Susan as an unwilling Soldier of Judgement (with a sense of > > humor) > > Hmmmm. This doesn't feel right, but I'll have to get back to > you... Actually, I'd have Susan be the offspring of the Grigori Archangel of Death. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:51:54 GMT From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Trauma >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Superior Trauma >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:28:45 -0500 > > > > 22,000 years of Trauma? > > > > No, I was thinking more like a year of Trauma, 21,999 years ago. >Come to think of it, are there any canonical records of >Superiors suffering Trauma at all? Do we know how they >react? I think the GMG mentioned that Superiors of all Choirs/Bands can manifest in multiple vessels simultaneously. It also (IIRC) mentioned that if a Superior loses a vessel while having more than one vessel manifested, then he suffers no Trauma (just like a Kyriotate) with multiple hosts. If he's only manifesting in one vessel at the time and loses his only vessel, then IIRC he does suffer Trauma. Of course, between the fact that Superiors have Will scores that are at *least* 12, the fact that they don't really need to roll dice to begin with, and the fact that they have so much Essence to burn that they can succeed at any one die roll they please whenever they please, then barring Divine or Internal Interventions I don't see any Superior being in Trauma for longer than, oh, five minutes. AAMOF, IMO *only* a Divine or Infernal Intervention should be able to kick a Superior into Trauma at all -- and that's assuming you managed to somehow hunt down and cap all of his vessels in the first place. >If they (the Heavenly ones, anyway) can manufacture >Trauma-proof Malakim, shouldn't they be Trauma-proof themselves? >And if one brought Metatron back on stage, he might well be >*above* Superior level. Of course, I just realized another problem with Metatron and Trauma -- Trauma is what happens when you lose your Corporeal vessel. IIRC, Metatron died in *Celestial* combat with Lucifer... IOW, "He be *daid*, Jim." - -- Chuckg ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:53:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Twila Oxley Price Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Hmmm. Some not yet mentioned.... Ponder Stibbons and HEX are definitely Jean's. I'd say that Ponder is a woefully confused Seraph, perhaps. Casanunda (the worlds second greatest lover) HAS to be Andre's. But who in the world would create an artifact like the Luggage? It's too snappish to be Heavenly and too loyal to be Infernal.... at least imho. Twila (who also orders her Pratchett from England :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:14:22 -0500 (CDT) From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Twila Oxley Price wrote: > But who in the world would create an artifact like the Luggage? It's > too snappish to be Heavenly and too loyal to be Infernal.... at least > imho. Nonsense. The Luggage, IMHO, is a Cherub bound into a "recovered" artifact of either Theft or Gluttony. (Maybe Haagenti brought it with him...*) - -EDG * see Oops!. Ask Morgan for details. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:18:23 GMT From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover >From: Twila Oxley Price >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:53:30 -0400 (EDT) >But who in the world would create an artifact like the Luggage? It's >too snappish to be Heavenly and too loyal to be Infernal.... at least >imho. It's not an artifact. It's a species. Remember, there are lady Luggages, and little Luggages, and... The Luggage that we know is merely a highly aberrant member of what is ordinarily a very benign and humble species of animated luggage containers. BTW, who *else* would create something like this? This thing's got "VapuTech" written aaaaalll over it. *eg* As for the loyalty part... Eli -- "Ohhhhhh, my head... I can't open my eyes... what did I do last night?" Servitor -- "You got really smashed and co-invented animated luggage with Vapula." Eli -- "I did WHAT? Oh, Lord... that's it, no way I'm ever touching Skull-Whomper Light(TM) again. I'm sticking to *good* booze from now on." - -- Chuckg ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:24:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Charles Glasgow wrote: > Eli -- "I did WHAT? Oh, Lord... that's it, no way I'm ever > touching Skull-Whomper Light(TM) again. I'm sticking to *good* > booze from now on." Like scumble. The stuff made with apples. Well, *mostly* apples. And you know it hasn't been watered down, because of what happens if you let water touch scumble. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:23:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Game >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:34:58 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Charles Glasgow" ] >Status: U >From: "Charles Glasgow" >Subject: Re: IN> Game >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:35:01 -0500 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:26 AM >Subject: Re: IN> Game > > >> BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > Anyone here a Terry Pratchett Discworld fan? Ever read Small Gods? >> > Doesn't Vorbis bear a disturbing resemblance to Asmodeus? >> >> Nah, he's more like the Patrician. He makes people jump through >> stupid hoops; sneers at them when they obey; and when 50 or 60 >> people gather to compare notes they find out each person's meaningless >> hoop was a step in his master plan, which it is always too late >> to stop. >> >> True, Lord Vetinari uses peoples' base motives to achieve apparently >> "good" ends, but that's just Asmodeus playing with a handicap because >> the Creator of the Discworld is clearly not a great player. :) > >Eh? Except for the "good" ends, I'd always thought that the Patrician >would be a great model for Lucifer. He's got the intellect and he's got the >cold style. > >-- >Chuckg > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:24:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:41:13 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [David Rodemaker ] >Status: U >From: David Rodemaker >Subject: RE: IN> Superior Trauma >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:24:34 -0700 > >On Thursday, August 10, 2000 8:29 AM, Earl Wajenberg [SMTP:earlw@mc.com] >wrote: >> > > 22,000 years of Trauma? >> > >> > No, I was thinking more like a year of Trauma, 21,999 years ago. >> >> Come to think of it, are there any canonical records of >> Superiors suffering Trauma at all? Do we know how they >> react? If they (the Heavenly ones, anyway) can manufacture >> Trauma-proof Malakim, shouldn't they be Trauma-proof themselves? >> >> And if one brought Metatron back on stage, he might well be >> *above* Superior level. >> >> Earl > >In Kiara's campaign, she/we introduced a new choir. What Heaven is going to >find out (from what I know at least...) is that whenever a group of this >new choir gather there is the potential for the Metatron to manifest. > >The Other David > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:15:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma The Other David wrote: > In Kiara's campaign, she/we introduced a new choir. What Heaven > is going to find out (from what I know at least...) is that > whenever a group of thisnew choir gather there is the potential > for the Metatron to manifest. Interesting. What are they called and what's their nature? Are they the pets of a particular Archangel, like Blandine's menunim? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:53:41 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Trauma > I don't see any Superior being in Trauma for longer than, oh, five minutes. *wham* *wham* *wham* *crunch* "No time to celebrate, boys. You've got less time than it takes to boil an egg. Get cracking." > Chuckg Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:53:41 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Trauma > I don't see any Superior being in Trauma for longer than, oh, five minutes. *wham* *wham* *wham* *crunch* "No time to celebrate, boys. You've got less time than it takes to boil an egg. Get cracking." > Chuckg Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:27:25 -0500 (CDT) From: EDG Subject: IN> Lilith? I don't remember, so I ask: does Lilith have a Heart? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:52:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Question. At 10:55 PM -0400 8/9/00, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >I remember hearing someone (I think Beth) mention something about Bright >Lilim being able to resonate photographs. I'd heard something about that >before. Where's this written? IPG, I believe. At the least, it's implicit in the main book, where angels get to use their resonances on recorded media and demons don't. I would cite refs, but have a baby sleeping on one hand. - --Beth, typing w/a baby (iolanthe) on her chest. Vapitalizatoin & spelling difficult, typing w/1 hand & supporting baby w/other. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:45:43 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Question. >I remember hearing someone (I think Beth) mention something about Bright >Lilim being able to resonate photographs. I'd heard something about that >before. Where's this written? What's the skinny? I'm embarrassed to ask >because I like to think I know In Nomine fairly well. > >Reverend Brian A. Rogers Well, I don't know about the rest of the IN universe but in G:IN the quote is "through recordings, if they can see the subject's eyes." This is on G:IN p. 70. I think this is also meant to include live media. A photograph is definitely a recording, although I believe something was mentioned elsewhere about resonances used on recordings getting information about the subject *at the time the recording was made*, not necessarily at the present moment. For example, if the subject has a chronic illness, and the Lilim detects this Need, then finds and heals him in some way, she's fulfilled a Need and has the Geas-hook. On the other hand, if he'd just had a bout of the flu that day, she might detect the Need to be healed, but if he's over it by the time she finds him there's no Need to fulfill. William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:48:31 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Bright Question. At 14:45 -0400 8/10/00, William J. Keith wrote: >>I remember hearing someone (I think Beth) mention something about Bright >>Lilim being able to resonate photographs. I'd heard something about that >>before. Where's this written? What's the skinny? I'm embarrassed to ask >>because I like to think I know In Nomine fairly well. >> >>Reverend Brian A. Rogers > >Well, I don't know about the rest of the IN universe but in G:IN the quote >is "through recordings, if they can see the subject's eyes." This is on >G:IN p. 70. This was intended to be a clarification, interpreting the general rule that "angels can use resonances on recordings, demons can't". So Bright Lilim do get one slight resonance change -- by being more receptive to the Symphony as a whole, they can read the traces left in recordings, like other angels. That raises another related question, which I think hasn't been touched on - -- whether Balseraphs of Kronos can use their angelic resonance on recordings. Personally, I'm tempted to say no, they're still demons, so they can use them "live" only. I.e., they're not *that* open to the Symphony, though moreso than most demons. >I think this is also meant to include live media. Yes. > A >photograph is definitely a recording, although I believe something was >mentioned elsewhere about resonances used on recordings getting information >about the subject *at the time the recording was made*, not necessarily at >the present moment. Correct. This is in GURPS IN in the section with the resonances modifier table. I'm not sure where it is in the IN line, probably the APG. I thought it was a FAQ question, but it's not in the current FAQ that I can find. It may have just been an official ruling here on the list. I think it's at least consistent with how the Artistry skill is used to read a painting (from the main book). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:21:20 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Laurence the True Christian Twila wrote: >So, Charles, what exactly HAPPENED to Laurence to make him turn to >pacifism? Why does Michael support this? Etc. Enquiring minds want >to know... As one might imagine I left this deliberately open because it get's people's imaginations going and I have no idea what myself might change laurence so profoundly (or at least for every single person's perception of him). However I did have an idea of mine: Laurence is haunted by visions since confronting Gabrielle about her madness....visions that warn him (abeit too late) of the capture of one of his fellow Archangels by the host of Hell and Lucifer (Blandine, Novalis, Eli, or Zadikiel work best here). A curious deal is offered by Lucifer and without the Host's approval Laurence sacrafices himself for the release of his fellow archangel. After a time to all strangness Laurence returns from the realm of Darkness with ebon black hair greyed from relentless torture and his once perfect features marred with scars...however an aura of holiness surounded him that put all but the orginal of the host to shame (and some say even they). After a lengthy interrogation by the Seraphim council of his experiences; Laurence was allowed to resume his command of the Host and began his restructing of his servitors. >Why does Michael support this? Well as ChuckG noted I was thinking that Michael himself is touched by this himself and sees the effect on the war....in my campaign Michael is not just the blood soaked obsessed with Victory warrior but also the most intelligent and holiest of the angels. Michael recognizes something very strong about Laurence now. Though the idea he wouldn't be unhappy having his soldiers restocked with laurence's disenchanted warriors also comes to mind too...after all alot of militant angels likely have turned to him. However I see that more as an aftereffect of the transformation the Archangel of the Cross has gone through rather than a cause-especially since I believe many will come to view it as superior soon too. >- -- and strongly resembles modern Ba'hai, which is likewise >striving to be an inclusive meta-religion. Indeed so in this case I think the new Elohim Khalid is more willing to recognize God "blowest where hearts accept him" across the board and in his Mosque you'll find imagery from every religeon in the world where men are faithful and good...despite the sometimes shocking nature of it to the hardline Islamic. "These are not images to be worshiped my servitors no...not idolatry...images to remind us of our place in the cosmos...what must be done...and to remind us what we might become." - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:15:24 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Laurence the True Christian > without the Host's approval Laurence sacrafices himself for the release of > his fellow archangel. After a time to all strangness Laurence returns from Uh. Um. Well. This doesn't work. "...nor allow yourself to be captured by the forces of Lucifer." - In Nomine "Laurence [sacrifices] himself for the release of his fellow Archangel." - Charles Phipps I'm having some problems making this add up. > Laurence [...] began his [restricting] of his servitors. ...despite his many vows that would never, ever, ever let him do this... As the Archangel of the Sword, he would never dull his blade. It would make him dissonant. As a Malakite, he would never suffer evil to live. It would make him dissonant. As a Malakite who has sworn to serve God, he would never give up any of his authority as Commander of the Host. It would make him dissonant. If, in your scenario, God comes down and orders Laurence to become a pacifist, he would become a pacifist. > -Charlemagne Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Angels of Fire All that talk of Gabrielites in earlier posts gave me ideas. I look forward to your feedback on these. Shinanim "The Sparks" Shinanim are living embodiments of the spark of divine inspiration. While most of Gabriel's angels are assigned to punish the cruel, Shinanim have the task of motivating the faithful. The gentler aspects of Fire - warmth as opposed to heat - come to live in the form of Shinanim. Other Servitors of Fire smolder with the flames of vengeance, but Shinanim burn with the fires of love. They wear their love of God and Humanity on their celestial sleeves and make no secret of their passionate devotion to the Archangel of Fire. Shinanim are often loaned to other Archangels (Blandine, Khalid and Litheroy find them especially useful), but none would even dream of permanently leaving Gabriel's service. Resonance The Sparks resonate to inspiration. If the spark of the divine exists within any being, a Shin'an can fan it to a roaring flame. The cliché of a light bulb appearing over the head of someone who's just had an idea appeals to Shinanim - for they are the light bulb. The Sparks delight in renewing faith, passion and dedication in the hearts of those who need it. A Shin'an can intensify the divine spark in anyone they touch by making a Resonance roll. The subject is filled with renewed passion for a cause, a creed, an idea, a relationship or whatever. This state lasts for a number of hours equal to the angel's Celestial Forces times the Check Digit. What the subject of the Shin'an Resonance does with the inspiration is entirely up to him or her. This Resonance has no effect on demons who have less than three notes of Dissonance. Even then, it can only inspire repentance in those who are already inclined to redeem. Dissonance Shinanim are made up of the light of inspiration and the warmth of affection and encouragement. It is Dissonant for them to shoot down any idea or - through malice or carelessness - dampen another being's spirits. A Shin'an may offer constructive criticism if it's carefully worded, but cannot insult anyone... including a demon. Manner and Appearance Shinanim wear Vessels that radiate health and the energy of youth. They tend to prefer female Vessels and are more likely to appear as children than any other Choir. Their style of dress is both uninhibited and innocent. The most striking feature of a Shin'an is her eyes; the angel's gaze looks as if she has seen the deepest mysteries of the Symphony and laughed at all of God's jokes. In celestial form, a Shin'an appears as a globe of pure golden light. It should come as no surprise that a Choir devoted solely to the service of Gabriel identifies themselves musically as trumpets. Choir Attunement Gabriel grants her Shinanim the ability to see the divine spark when it shines with particular brightness in a mortal. The mortal in question may have the potential for extra Forces, possess the "Blessed" Advantage, be a prophet, have an especially powerful Destiny, etc. The Shin'an never knows shy such people are special, only that they are. Inferna "The Torches" Shinanim burn with love for God, Gabriel and Humanity (in that order). But sometimes, God seems distant. Gabriel is often too wrapped up in her madness to have time for her Servitors. Humans frequently deserve harsh criticism. When these circumstances cause a Shin'an's passion to turn inward and consume itself, the being that rises from the ashes is an Infernus. All Inferna end up in the service of Belial. This isn't a matter of loyalty of Hell's version of Fire; it's a reaction to the love that the former angel had for Gabriel. All of that love turns to hate when the angel Falls - serving Hell is the easiest way to spite God and serving Belial is the easiest way to hurt Gabriel. The Inferna's feelings toward Humanity are best not contemplated. All Inferna are Fallen Shinanim. Belial has never figured out how to start a flame of hate that burns as brightly as the fires of spurned love. Resonance An Infernus is a living match that sees the rest of the world as kindling. With a Will roll, the demon can ignite any flammable substance within his line of sight (unenhanced by technology, but Songs and Attunements work). The Inferna Resonance only effects things that readily catch fire; flesh doesn't qualify, but hair and most forms of clothing do. The target must also be seen directly - an Infernus can't blow up a car by igniting the gas tank unless he can somehow see through the tank to the gasoline inside. Dissonance Inferna are creatures of hatred and destructive force (they get along famously with Calabim). It is Dissonant for an Infernus to build anything that's meant to last - a house, a tool, a weapon, even a relationship. Inferna have disposable tools and temporary alliances, but few of them have any favorite Artifacts or lasting friendships. Any Artifacts that an Infernus has are likely to be stolen, and the only Roles these demons can have are those that are taken over from some other Celestial. Inferna can only have material goods if someone else makes them and can only stay in relationships if the other party does all the work of maintaining them (which is extremely rare among demons). Manner and Appearance The Torches tend to be unkempt and unattractive in their Vessels; they like to appear jaded and tough. They have a strong preference for Vessels in the appearance of rugged-looking young males. The eyes of an Infernus look as if he's seen everything and been disgusted by all of it. Not surprisingly, they prefer to dress in flame-retardant fabrics. In celestial form, an Infernus looks like a tongue of flame with a disturbing suggestion of facial features. Musically, there's only one type of instrument that the Torches identify with. How they saw themselves before the invention of electric guitars is anybody's guess. Band Attunement Belial's Inferna (that is, all of them) must know the Corporeal Song of Fire at character creation. When they play this Song, they add their Corporeal Forces to the Check Digit of a successful roll. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:34:06 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg [mailto:earlw@mc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:15 AM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma The Other David wrote: > In Kiara's campaign, she/we introduced a new choir. What Heaven > is going to find out (from what I know at least...) is that > whenever a group of thisnew choir gather there is the potential > for the Metatron to manifest. Interesting. What are they called and what's their nature? Are they the pets of a particular Archangel, like Blandine's menunim? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:34:04 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg [mailto:earlw@mc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:15 AM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma The Other David wrote: > In Kiara's campaign, she/we introduced a new choir. What Heaven > is going to find out (from what I know at least...) is that > whenever a group of thisnew choir gather there is the potential > for the Metatron to manifest. Interesting. What are they called and what's their nature? Are they the pets of a particular Archangel, like Blandine's menunim? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:48:10 -0700 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: IN> Superior Trauma Sorry about the two accidental posts... > In Kiara's campaign, she/we introduced a new choir. What Heaven > is going to find out (from what I know at least...) is that > whenever a group of thisnew choir gather there is the potential > for the Metatron to manifest. Interesting. What are they called and what's their nature? Are they the pets of a particular Archangel, like Blandine's menunim? IKC: They are the Ischim, "The Wise". Thier res. is for Gnosis, the hidden wisdom that comes with self-knowledge. They are able to look at other's and see what actually defines them, and if they are moving towards their Destiny or Fate. They were born (yes, born as in equal amounts of Forces contributed type birth, not created) of Eli and a Bright Lilim. They are unable to take service with a specific Superior, have no Choir-specific attunement, but have the advantage that they be granted any non-restricted attunement. Post to follow (as is our version of Azreal...) The Other David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1768 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.