From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Aug 11 10:57:12 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12386 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:57:11 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA19431 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:53:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:53:43 -0500 Message-Id: <200008111553.KAA19431@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1769 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, August 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1769 In this digest: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Game Re: IN> Game IN> Re: Paganism in IN Re: IN> Lilith? IN> Laurence the True Christian Re: IN> Great Books IN> Soulmates in IN. Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN IN> Reward for Redeeming a Demon? (and vice versa) RE: IN> Great Books IN> My thoughts on the Paganism issue in the game IN> The Matrix Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> The Matrix Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> My thoughts on the Paganism issue in the game Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Re: IN> Reward for Redeeming a Demon? (and vice versa) Re: IN> Soulmates in IN. Re: IN> Laurencemon and LeviathanTwo... Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Re: IN> Game IN> Redeemed Furfur Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur IN> Grigori Experience Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur IN> The Changing of Words ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:55:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:42:08 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, O. S. Kerr wrote: >> Wouldn't *that* be a kick in the pants... Cohen >> and the Silver Horde as the oldest Soldiers of >> Michael in the Disc... Ludmilla as an unwitting >> servant of Jordi... > Oh god (wave to Bilious!), the possibilities... It would get fairly bizarre, wouldn't it? One wonders about the possible fallout from an anonymous copy of the core rules showing up in Mr. Pratchett's mailbox one fine day... :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny (who better reserve some time at a Tether spa if he's going to monkey around with possible resonance-perversion) Petitioner for the Word of Go Ahead. You Know You Want To. It's For The Greater Good... (TWANG!!!) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:09:55 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Game In a message dated 8/10/00 7:26:47 AM Central Daylight Time, neelk@cswcasa.com writes: << Nah, he's more like the Patrician. He makes people jump through stupid hoops; sneers at them when they obey; and when 50 or 60 people gather to compare notes they find out each person's meaningless hoop was a step in his master plan, which it is always too late to stop. True, Lord Vetinari uses peoples' base motives to achieve apparently "good" ends, but that's just Asmodeus playing with a handicap because the Creator of the Discworld is clearly not a great player. :) >> Nope, gotta disagree. Vetinari is not like Asmodeus. Asmodeus enforces the rules of the Game. That's it. He likes to see people weasel around the letter of the Rules, because that's part of the Game. He'll punish them anyway, because that's part of the Game, too. With Asmodeus, it's just masturbation, so to speak. Upholding his word because that's what he does. Vetinari doesn't tell you all the rules, and doesn't care if you break them. He most likely knew you were going to break them, and planned accordingly. He puts people in situations that almost insure that you will break the rules, because that's what he wants you to do. Asmodeus is a rule-crazy hard-ass. Vetinari is a shrewd manipulator. Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:14:40 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Game In a message dated 8/10/00 7:26:47 AM Central Daylight Time, neelk@cswcasa.com writes: << True, Lord Vetinari uses peoples' base motives to achieve apparently "good" ends, but that's just Asmodeus playing with a handicap because the Creator of the Discworld is clearly not a great player. :) >> Hey! Hey! Hey! Here's a twisted thought! Vetinari, Elohite of Destiny! He helped the city of Ankh-Morpork become a force to be reckoned with. He encourage tolerance by inviting dwarfs and troll to live in the city alongside humans. He legalized most forms of crime, and thereby reduced crime by an incredible degree. And he did it by coldly and rationally playing everyone against each other, by knowing people's motivations and using them. Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:34:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: Paganism in IN Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:27:35 -0500From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN Maurice Lane wrote: >>And let's not even start about how little Athena, >>say, gives a sh** about keeping the corporeal world >>unaware about the True State of Affairs... :) >Indeed, the Corporeal Plane is in for a thin time of >it, if you allow multiple pantheons to learn the >trick. You would then have multiple "omnipotences" >having aa competitive apocalypse contest all over the >asteroid belt that used to be Earth... >Earl I didn't say that this would be a _good_ thing. :) OTOH, if you wanna do a "GI Joe/Cobra band together" epsiode ... I mean, mini-campaign ... this would make for a decent excuse. Just pick a pantheon that nobody's going to miss anyway*, and go to town. Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Currently Assigned to Grand Central Station Tether** *You know. One of _those_ pantheons. The ones that everyone tacitly agrees not to bring up whenever freedom of religion comes up in a conversation. **It'll be on the website in a few days, along with everything else I'm fiddling with right now. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:41:53 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? In a message dated 8/10/00 1:29:00 PM Central Daylight Time, edg@sjgames.com writes: << I don't remember, so I ask: does Lilith have a Heart? >> Does a Superior need one? I doubt it. But if not, she could easily make one for herself. Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:50:14 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Laurence the True Christian >Uh. Um. Well. This doesn't work. >"...nor allow yourself to be captured by the forces of Lucifer." - In Nomine >"Laurence [sacrifices] himself for the release of his fellow Archangel." - On the contrary I'm well aware of it. However the choice is clear....violate his ethos or violate his oath. In my opinion Laurence after along point of deliberation would allow himself to be taken in exchange. Besides in my opinion I'm not sure this would be causing himself dissonance because he didn't surrender at all...however the captured part may be true...oh well. I still think he'd do it. David wouldn't, Uriel wouldn't (he'd attack and win), and Michael would figure some other way of doing it...but Laurence would matyr himself I think. (Why Lucifer no doubt made the offer) >I'm having some problems making this add up. Understood. >...despite his many vows that would never, ever, ever let him do this... >As the Archangel of the Sword, he would never dull his blade. It would make >him dissonant. How is he dulling his blade? It is sharp as ever. >As a Malakite, he would never suffer evil to live. It would make him >dissonant. He's not, evil has never been more destroyed than by his pacifism. The cross burns away those in it's shadow moreso ever than those that taste it's edge. >As a Malakite who has sworn to serve God, he would never give up any of his >authority as Commander of the Host. It would make him dissonant. He hasn't given it up at all. He's commanded Heaven's forces to become defenders, healers, and inspirationals...indeed it's very similar to David's philosophy that Heaven cannot be defeated it simply uses Novalis's "give love" instead of "give fist" when the first blow is struck. Why David and Jean are so ticked off; he's trying to dismantle (in their opinion) the war effort. However he's not restricting them or Michael. >If, in your scenario, God comes down and orders Laurence to become a >pacifist, he would become a pacifist. And the same problems would emerge with his oaths. While I personally just love causing Laurence dissonance (see my story on the collection) I still believe this image of him is quite interesting. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:31:38 -0700 From: "Robb-Escue" Subject: Re: IN> Great Books O. S. Kerr I agree that Blameless in Abaddon is the better of the two. I didn't know that there was a third book. What is it's name? Robb > I like Blameless in Abaddon better of the the two (three, > actually, since I read the third in the series, too). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:57:23 -0700 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: IN> Soulmates in IN. I've been looking up some Ranma/Akane fanfics on the web late this evening, and the subject of Soulmates came up in a few of them. You know the theory: Some say that human souls are in fact, only half a soul, and that the whole point of life for half-souls is to search for one's own soulmate and join with them, body and soul. This is part of what great romances are all about. So I've been wondering how the concept of Soulmates would work in In Nomine. Would Destiny work on bringing Soulmates together, while Fate works on dividing them forever? What would Andrealphus, obsessed with destroying True Love at every turn, do about Soulmates? What would Soulmates mean to The War? Anyone have any thoughts on this? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:14:56 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Re: Paganism in IN - --On Thursday, August 10, 2000 19:34 -0700 Maurice Lane wrote: > *You know. One of _those_ pantheons. The ones that > everyone tacitly agrees not to bring up whenever > freedom of religion comes up in a conversation. Interesting isn't it, that certain religions are sacred cows no one dares speak badly about, and some are just fair game for anyone with a grudge to unload on? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Cross, bullseye, pretty much the same thing.") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:21:24 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Reward for Redeeming a Demon? (and vice versa) Curiously this has come up in my campaign while we're playing in Austin, TX (I love Night Music truly). Isaiah the Forgetful Seraph after visiting the town and making friends found the Tangle Bearded man for Eli (his sup with Novalis) and ironically found himself embroiled in one of Andrealphus's plots to create a tether in the area with his heavy hitter a Baron of Eternal Ectasy Gile.... Well to make a long story short Isaiah, some soldiers, and a Elohim thrawted the tether being formed and managed to get ironically the help of one of the local demons as well (I won't name names but it seemed appropriate how she'd end her relationship with Andre and Eli/Novalis are unconventional masters)... Now in retrospect I'm trying to figure out what exactly Superiors reaction to their servitor's "victory" should be...plus in a larger context... Do different Superiors reward differently for corrupting/redeeming Celestials and if so by how much? What is the value in the opinion of a Superior in bringing a demon over? I'd appreciate your thoughts. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:17:50 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Great Books That would be _The Eternal Footman_, released last November. You can find it on Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0151293252/qid=965967344/sr=1-9/102-6 978261-6598559?search-path-string= if you want more details. steve - -----Original Message----- From: Robb-Escue [mailto:Robb-Escue@email.msn.com] Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:32 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Great Books O. S. Kerr I agree that Blameless in Abaddon is the better of the two. I didn't know that there was a third book. What is it's name? Robb > I like Blameless in Abaddon better of the the two (three, > actually, since I read the third in the series, too). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:51:45 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> My thoughts on the Paganism issue in the game Hi everyone. I've been following the debate about the Ethereal beings for a few days by reading the digests and the debate gave me an idea I plane to implement in an e-mail campaign I hope to run this fall (depending on my college schedule). My idea is this: why not have an Archangel moderate the powers of the Ethereal Realm? I do not mean cutting deals with the Ethereal powers like Beleth does, or hunting them like the Tsayadim. I am currently designing such an Archangel, a former Elohite of Lightning who developed a means to harness and redirect the power the Ethereals possess. For this, she was granted the Word of The Veil, and using her process, she has simply stolen the powers of the Ethereals, declared herself in charge of them, and proceeded to objectively stomp out any dissent to her self-proclaimed rule. I thought it might be interesting to bring up. What happens to the Ethereals when Heaven simply seizes command? Do pagan religions flourish still? Are major alterations made to pagan religions to account for the sudden shift of power in the Ethereal realm? Do the Ethereal powers fight back? Just thought I'd see what the list thought. :) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:14:35 NZST From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> The Matrix I am sure that someone has thought of this before and posted it long ago, but I think I am being original..... Seraphim will cringe but not be screaming yet. There is a song of Oblivion that removes a person from the Symphony so that any damage done to him will not register a disturbance, there are numerous songs that mask disturbance, Silence is a good one because it creates no disturbance itself. What if you create a campagin revolving around a group of Humans who have somehow been created with the inherant knowledge of how to change the Symphony without Disturbing it. Say each one is Soldier material with some sort of *connection* to the Symphony as Humans as Yves and Kronos have as Celestials. OR Say that a certain Archangel/Demon Prince has got a hold of some Children of the Gregori who are already Aware and created a permanent Oblivion/Silence combo on them. In either case, they need not be aware of what has happened to them. They can just manipulate the Symphony on a supernatural level. It could start out as controlled Pyrokenesis in the form of the Corporeal song of Fire, or the bending of spoons in a carnival with Ethereal Motion. The interesting part is when you bring the Media into it. Say that The Matrix has been and gone, and that since the movie was so prevalent these people are beginning to doubt the nature of their world. They can influence it just in the way Morpheus and Neo could, even more so. The GM can create such fun with this. They begin to start a revolt against those who control the world from a non political level. The CIA, NSA, Secret Service, MIB's, whatever agency you see fit to be enigmatic and yet *around* when the s*** hits the fan. They start to become quite the underground. More so, they can teach these inherant abilities to others over time. The more powerful ones, such as the Pyro's or the ones who can use Corp or Celestial Motion can't teach the others. But Eth Form, Eth Motion any song that controls the way you interact with the world are readily teachable..... From a more IN point of view, you get a bunch of Soldier capable humans, find an Archangel or DP who needs a bunch of people to create a distraction for a time while he does something else more important. You hit them with Celestial and Ethereal Connections and then through the Marches, you funnel essence and songs to them. You make them believe that they are becoming more *aware* of the real world. Then you fire some Demons/Angels at them so they can test their powers out and become even more caught up in the fantasy. They become as powerful as the Superior wants them to be and he leaves it at that. Perhaps with a guardian masquerading as a human to watch things. He finishes his business elsewhere and comes back to remove all the stuff he gave the Humans, only to find that he can't strip the Attunements or locate the humans in the Dreamscape anymore. They have become Symphonic Ghosts. Able to cloak disturbances, vanish without traces and are much more powerful than any normal Soldier. He sends the PC's to find them or kill them. Now the chase begins with the PC's as the Agents and the Humans as the dashing Matrix heros. What do you think? - -Alex ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:18:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:27:25 -0500 (CDT)From: EDG Subject: IN> Lilith? >I don't remember, so I ask: does Lilith have a Heart?- >-EDG Doubtful, considering the way that she casually condemned humanity to 20,000+ years of suffering by the Forces of Evil just for a little security and payback. Oh, you mean, does she have a _Heart_? ;) Seriously, I think that the issue is clouded by the fact that canon doesn't really address whether _any_ Superior has a Heart, IIRC. There's the "Hearts are the Principality/Cathedral" argument, which makes a certain amount of sense (though one I've rejected for aesthetic reasons: Renegade Princes spurning the symbol of their past underneath their heels was just too good an image to pass up), but even then Lilith might be stuck (unless the Guildhall is a really really tiny Principality). Anyway, she _is_ a human*. I'd say no, which means that somewhere, far from the madding crowd, there's a demon with multiple Geas/6, glumly wondering whether all those Rites, Songs and relics were _really_ worth watching over a roomful of Body Bags for the forseeable future... Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Currently Working at the Grand Central Station Tether *BTW, the earlier argument about whether she could still have human children is moot, I think. Presuming that Lilith even ovulates, human females have only a limited amount of eggs. She'd have run out millenia ago. Besides, if a 15 Force human wasn't good enough for her, well... Now, if _Adam_ had become a Prince, I could see offspring ensuing. Hmm. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:26:24 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? >I don't remember, so I ask: does Lilith have a Heart? My understanding is yes. Lilith is human. Humans nead a heart... Ashley Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:04:44 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> The Matrix - --On Friday, August 11, 2000 5:14 PM +0000 Alex Liddell wrote: > > What do you think? > I think letting John Woo direct an episode of "Touched by an Angel" was a mistake. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("I resonnate the door." "You WHAT?" "I want to know how it feels.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:13:45 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > Gabriel? How do you figure? > If I must classify him as a celestial I see him perhaps as a rather cynical > Malakite, driven by his own personal code of honor. But that doesn't really > work. I see Vimes as very, very human. It's what makes him so cool. :) Mm. On one count, you're right. He -is- essentially human. (and I wrote "Servitor" when I was trying to type "Soldier". Damn my brain.) As for why I picked him as attached to Gabriel... because I couldn't wrap my brain around him as a Soldier of Judgement, no matter how hard I tried. Now, I freely admit to not having read[1] the expanded writeup of Gabriel - -or- Dominic, BUT: Especially in the most recent books, like Jingo, he's displayed something more than the concern with seeing them as does the time does the crime that hallmarks Dominic. Scales is concerned with seeing the punishment administered that fits the crime, and where possible to -prevent- crimes, but Vimes, as written, has a burning (no pun intended) desire to make the world a -better place-: not just to stop crime, but rather to reform the people who commit crimes where possible, and excise them where not. (See that scene - the last one - with Wolfgang, in _Fifth Elephant_) It's a proactive thing, not a reactive thing. Rereading that I realise I've made more of a case for Vimes-under-Yves than Vimes-under-Gabriel, but that's the best I can do. He's a complicated creature, all right: bits of Stone, bits of Destiny, bits of everything from Judgement to Trade. But, in the final analysis, he goes beyond the mere reactive administration of retributive justice. And that's why I think he's a servant of Fire, as clear as I can make it.[2] [1] Complete tangent: is there any way to order that WITHOUT splitting the infinitive? Is it even a split infinitive, for that matter? Private email replies are probably better. [2] I harbour no illusions that that actually clarified anything. If I can think of a better explanation, I'll bring it up. //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- // "Life isn't fair. But the root password helps." -- The BOFH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:19:16 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Like scumble. The stuff made with apples. Well, *mostly* apples. > And you know it hasn't been watered down, because of what happens > if you let water touch scumble. So who thought up scumble, since we're on that topic? Personally, I'd say Lu himself. It's just too twisted to be anybody else. (Though Eli might have been on another of those REALLY bad trips... or Janus, since it certainly changes you. Sometimes it changes you from being alive to not being alive, but it definitely changes you!) There is now a really depraved Artifact named "Scumble Tankard" manifesting in the back of my mind, which I will post later if I can whip it into coherency... //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- // "Life isn't fair. But the root password helps." -- The BOFH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:22:02 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: > It would get fairly bizarre, wouldn't it? > One wonders about the possible fallout from an > anonymous copy of the core rules showing up in Mr. > Pratchett's mailbox one fine day... > :) I think the end result would make Good Omens resemble something by Robert Jordan[1] in terms of sheer expansive enjoyability. So, shall we pass the hat? I'm in for a couple dollars... ;) [1] Not intending to pick a fight with any Jordan fans here present. //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- // "Life isn't fair. But the root password helps." -- The BOFH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:40:11 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) - --On Friday, August 11, 2000 11:22 PM +1200 Keith Bolland wrote: > [1] Not intending to pick a fight with any Jordan fans here > present. > Hal? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation for Sector 2237 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:41:52 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Since we're in the dark place, does CMOTD work for the Archangel Marc, or Vapula, or....? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Mmmmmm....sausage...") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:58:54 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Bowden" To: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 6:40 AM Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) > > > --On Friday, August 11, 2000 11:22 PM +1200 Keith Bolland > wrote: > > > [1] Not intending to pick a fight with any Jordan fans here > > present. > Hal? Michael? - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:08:42 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) - --On Friday, August 11, 2000 6:58 AM -0500 Charles Glasgow wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Bowden" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) > > >> >> >> --On Friday, August 11, 2000 11:22 PM +1200 Keith Bolland >> wrote: >> >> > [1] Not intending to pick a fight with any Jordan fans here >> > present. > >> Hal? > > Michael? > John! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:27:12 -0300 (ADT) From: Philip Vincent Barkow Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, Marc Bowden wrote: > > > --On Friday, August 11, 2000 6:58 AM -0500 Charles Glasgow > wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marc Bowden" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 6:40 AM > > Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) > > > > > >> > >> > >> --On Friday, August 11, 2000 11:22 PM +1200 Keith Bolland > >> wrote: > >> > >> > [1] Not intending to pick a fight with any Jordan fans here > >> > present. > > > >> Hal? > > > > Michael? > > > > John! > Is this another Rocky Horror Picture Show moment? > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 05:48:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> My thoughts on the Paganism issue in the game - --- Charles E Smith wrote: > My idea is this: why not have an Archangel moderate the powers of the > Ethereal Realm? I do not mean cutting deals with the Ethereal powers > like > Beleth does, or hunting them like the Tsayadim. I am currently > designing > such an Archangel, a former Elohite of Lightning who developed a > means to > harness and redirect the power the Ethereals possess. For this, she > was > granted the Word of The Veil, and using her process, she has simply > stolen the powers of the Ethereals, declared herself in charge of > them, > and proceeded to objectively stomp out any dissent to her > self-proclaimed > rule. My first thought is that Blandine would hate this -- A LOT. If such an Archangel came into existence, the Word of The Veil would encroach big time on the Word of Dreams. Remember that Ethereals are tied to human dreams; you can't suppress one without effecting the other (a fact that the Tsayadim seem to have missed -- or don't care about). And if it interferes with humanity badly enough, Yves is sure to get involved. Bottom line: creating such an Archangel would divide the forces of Heaven. Now, some campaigns would benefit from that... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:51:01 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) - --On Friday, August 11, 2000 9:27 AM -0300 Philip Vincent Barkow wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, Marc Bowden wrote: > >> >> >> --On Friday, August 11, 2000 6:58 AM -0500 Charles Glasgow >> wrote: >> >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Marc Bowden" >> > To: >> > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 6:40 AM >> > Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover (was: Game) >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> --On Friday, August 11, 2000 11:22 PM +1200 Keith Bolland >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > [1] Not intending to pick a fight with any Jordan fans here >> >> > present. >> > >> >> Hal? >> > >> > Michael? >> > >> >> John! >> > Is this another Rocky Horror Picture Show moment? "Sit down." The Elohite pulled his companion back into the seat in a blur of preternatural motion, completely lost to anyone else in the darkened theater. "I think we'd better not interrupt the movie until the very end." The Malakite shook herself free, frowning. "Come on! We can hit them both without-" "No." "WHY?" Without looking at his partner, Marc whispered as calmly as possible, "Three rows back, third from the right. No, dont-!" But Ruth had already turned around and was scanning the audience. "Where? Who could..." she began, and then snapped around and attempted to become so small, so fast, that Marc couldn't help snickering. Further up and further in, Novalis wove coloured mini-marshmallows out of raw firmament and tossed a handfull gleefully at the screen. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (*painting a 'V' on the Malakite's forehead* Oh, shush. Think of it as war paint.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:06:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Reward for Redeeming a Demon? (and vice versa) - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Do different Superiors reward differently for corrupting/redeeming > Celestials and if so by how much? What is the value in the opinion of > a Superior in bringing a demon over? Different Superiors would definitely reward differently. Here's my take on it. *Eli would be the most unpredictable -- there's no telling what he'd do, you only know that it would be good for you (though it might be a mixed blessing). *Dominic and Laurence would reward fairly well, but both the redeemed and the redeemer would be carefully watched for some time. *Novalis and Asmodeus would doubtless reward lavishly -- getting an enemy to switch sides serves their Words and falls right in line with their respective policies concerning the other side. *Andrealphus would probably grant a Distinction -- especially if the angel was turned by means of seduction. *Yves and Kronos would reward according to the Destiny of the redeemed or the Fate of the Fallen, respectively. *Haagenti and Mammon would be stingy with rewards, but at least there'd be one. *If the demon in question didn't do much to harm animals, Jordi wouldn't much care one way or the other. *Nybbas would reward based on the "ratings" value of the incident. *Malphas would give the demon who brought an angel over a pretty big reward... and then give some even bigger perks to the newly Fallen, just to make sure that the two didn't get too cozy. *Most other Superiors would be middle-of-the-road on this issue; there'd be a reward, but not as big as Novalis or Asmodeus would give. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:14:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Soulmates in IN. - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > So I've been wondering how the concept of Soulmates would work in In > Nomine. > Would Destiny work on bringing Soulmates together, while Fate works > on > dividing them forever? What would Andrealphus, obsessed with > destroying > True Love at every turn, do about Soulmates? What would Soulmates > mean to The War? This would be a big one, if you put it in a campaign. Certain people might not achieve their Destinies without finding their Soulmates. Conversely, some might avoid their Fates as long as their Soulmates are in their lives. Yves and Kronos, at least, would join Andre in the search for Soulmates (though for vastly different reasons). For an idea on how to incorporate this into a campaign, see GURPS Warehouse 23 for an artifact called the Soulmate Database. This item makes a great adventure seed, with Servitors of Fate and Lust trying to keep it out of Heaven's and humanity's hands and Servitors of Destiny and Creation trying to make it common knowledge. Servitors of other Superiors might want it for their sides without letting humans get a look at it. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:43:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Laurencemon and LeviathanTwo... - --- Twila Oxley Price wrote: > OBInNomine: It's too easy to blame Pokemon on Nybas, > or Kobal. What > OTHER demon princes might be responsible? Or, > alternatively, what > might the Angel of Pokemon be like? How about a Kyrio of Christopher (or Marc, for the Trade aspect), able to possess individual cards and licensed goodies, such as plush Pikachi... And there's always Haagenti for the greed aspect... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:00:37 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Discworld/IN Crossover Marc Bowden wrote: > Since we're in the dark place, does CMOTD work for the Archangel > Marc, or Vapula, or....? Need you ask? Mammon! (Though he made a brief career in service to Nybbas.) Archangels? Ha. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:09:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Game BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > Hey! Hey! Hey! Here's a twisted thought! Vetinari, > Elohite of Destiny! That actually works fairly well. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:55:16 +0800 From: lizard Subject: IN> Redeemed Furfur I've been lurking on this list for some time now; I'll be running an IN campaign soon, which features an extremely modified version of the Demon Prince of Rock and Roll..the clincher is, after Furfur makes Prince, some time later he'll be Redeemed..trouble is, I can't think of any good Words for a Redeemed(and Archangelic) Furfur; the closest thing I can come to is AA of Hardcore, but I'm not good at making Attunements and I'm not entirely sure what a Divine Hardcore would mean. Any help people? Please? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:00:47 -0500 (CDT) From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur I'm not sure what mailer you're using, but your lines don't wrap in Pine. :( On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, lizard wrote: > I've been lurking on this list for some time now; I'll be running an > IN campaign soon, which features an extremely modified version of the > Demon Prince of Rock and Roll..the clincher is, after Furfur makes > Prince, some time later he'll be Redeemed..trouble is, I can't think of > any good Words for a Redeemed(and Archangelic) Furfur; the closest thing > I can come to is AA of Hardcore, but I'm not good at making Attunements > and I'm not entirely sure what a Divine Hardcore would mean. Any help > people? Please? Is it necessary for Furfur to /have/ a Word? While Moe Lane gives an interesting rationale for his Oops superiors having Words (God granting them directly, that is), I have severe doubts that the Seraphim Council would trust a Redeemed ex-Demon Prince enough to give him a Word anytime close to when he Redeems. What if Furfur's just a simple high-powered (or not even so high-powered) angel? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:59:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur Perhaps the divine equivalent to the Demon Prince of Hardcore would be the Archangel of Zeal? He'd be the nemesis of the Demon Prince of Sloth, if that Prince hadn't been lunched by Haagenti. And, as I recall, Furfur is a Calabite, so would Redeem as an Ophanite, for which Zeal is a very natural Word. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:07:59 EDT From: Daedalus3D@aol.com Subject: IN> Grigori Experience Y'know, as I was in the middle of creating some stuff for the new Grigori list (www.egroups.com/choir8 --- shameless plug), I thought of something. Does anyone have any experiences playing Grigori? I know they only came out a month ago in GURPS IN, but has anyone tried using them in a game yet? How did that work out? I'd love to hear about any experiences anybody has had (and I'm sure the choir8 list would too). Later. Daedalus/Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:15:17 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur >And, as I recall, Furfur is a Calabite, so would Redeem as an >Ophanite, for which Zeal is a very natural Word. > Angel of Rock 'n Roll! (In service to David, naturally.) jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:42:59 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Redeemed Furfur > What if Furfur's just a simple high-powered (or not even so high-powered) > angel? Took the words right out of my mail client. Furfur is a *minor* Prince who gained power as part of a joke. He'd redeem into an enthusiastic Ofanite, and nothing more. Maybe he'd get a Word eventually -- maybe, maybe even at redemption -- but he is not Archangel material. > -EDG *I* think Furfur cannot redeem. If he tried (and why should he? Hell rules!), his Forces would flitter away. He's just too far gone, and there's no hook in his character to bring him back. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:53:40 -0500 (CDT) From: EDG Subject: IN> The Changing of Words I get the impression sometimes that people think that angels and demons change Words like we change pants. I don't feel that that's the case - changing Words should be a traumatic and possibly deadly experience, and it's certainly nothing an angel or demon should want to experience more than once. This story sort of embodies that. - -EDG Achanem looked around nervously. At each entrance to the great room that served as the meetingplace for the Seraphim Council, one Seraph and one Malakite stood, an honor guard against an enemy that couldn't possibly reach this far into the Eternal City. The angel shifted uncomfortably, his sponsor's presence behind him nearly forgotten. The Ofanite Achanem had been the Angel of Coal Mines for centuries, and had guided countless hopefuls to riches, hundreds of feet below the ground. But a superior - not his Archangel, but a Malakite between Achanem and David - had seen how the Ofanite was languishing, how his Word was diminishing as new power sources faded, and had suggested to /his/ superior that Achanem might want to consider changing Words. So Achanem was before the Seraphim Council, his Malakite sponsor's hand resting reassuringly on what could possibly be called the Ofanite's shoulder, waiting for the Council to approve or deny his request to transform into the Angel of the Mother Lode. (It had been suggested also, in passing, that he request a transfer from Stone to Dreams, but Achanem felt that the Word could serve equally under either, and wanted to shake up the establishment as little as possible at one time.) Finally, Michael and Dominic looked up at Achanem, and he felt a thrill run through the cores of his rings as the eyes of the Seraphim bored into him. "Achanem, Ofanite of Stone, Angel of Coal Mines, do you understand the implications of the request you make?" He wasn't sure which Archangel had spoken, but it didn't matter. "I do," he whispered, then repeated it more loudly - a mannerism that he'd acquired on Earth, one that was totally unnecessary here. The Archangels could hear anything said anywhere in the room, regardless of volume. There were no secrets from the Council when they were convened. Marc looked up. "You are willing to accept the consequences of your actions?" "I am," said the Ofanite, his voice getting stronger. Blandine's eyes met his own. "You pledge to uphold your new Word as you have upheld your old Word?" "I do," he replied. Novalis looked up. "Then it shall be done." At this the entire Council stood, and Achanem got the sudden feeling that this was /not/ something that happened every day - as had been implied by his sponsor, who was beginning to look less and less knowledgeable by the second. He turned a ring to look at the Malakite, and found that his sponsor had gone. Achanem caught a glimpse of a black wing through one of the doors to the Council chambers, and felt very alone. The Archangels made a circle around the Ofanite, and Achanem found that the only direction in which he could bear to look was up, and the only sensation he could distinguish was shrieking, tearing, destroying pain. Thus he did not notice when the Ofanim began to swarm around him, the Seraphim and Malakim forming four points of a square around him while the rest closed their eyes and called upon the Symphony itself. The Ofanim, in concert, tore the Word of Coal Mines from Achanem's being. Achanem didn't care; he was lost in the searing torment that came of having the core of his very being torn from him through every part of his body. The Seraphim and Malakim, working together, pulled the Word of the Mother Lode from the Symphony and bound it into the shape of an Ofanite, whirling and thrashing around the rest of the proceedings. Achanem didn't notice; his soul was exposed to the full noise of the Symphony, and he was hearing every note in its full glory, blasted at him at two thousand decibels at a range of three inches. The remaining Archangels took the Ofanite-shape that had been the free-floating Word of the Mother Lode, and bound it together, around, through, and within the form of Achanem, who by this point was glowing with a light from which even Dominic hid his eyes. This Achanem noticed, because suddenly the pain and the noise stopped, and he was himself again, in the center of the Council chambers, a host of Archangels around him, all watching. Achanem suddenly felt very small. But only for a moment; then Essence began flooding toward him from his new Word, and he realized that it was over. Dominic nodded, and the circle of Archangels parted, allowing Achanem to pass. As he walked by, though, wondering that he had survived, Michael himself leaned over and whispered two words that would chill the Ofanite to his core whenever he remembered them: "Some don't." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1769 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.