From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 14 15:36:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12342 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:36:17 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA29701 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:16:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:16:03 -0500 Message-Id: <200008142016.PAA29701@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1780 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1780 In this digest: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Sympathy for the Devil (was Lilith) Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) Re: IN> Yeeeeesh... Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Lilith? IN> Planning my Superior dinner party Re: IN> Sympathy for the Devil (was Lilith) Re: Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) IN> Lilith's Death/Redemption/Freedom Re: IN> Lilith? IN> STOP! (was: Yeeeeesh...) Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Sympathy for the Devil (was Lilith) Re: IN> Adam, Prince of somethingorother Re: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Furfur, Archangel of Fortitude IN> RE: Erik, Prince of Music Re: IN> Lilith's Death/Redemption/Freedom Re: IN> Furfur, Archangel of Fortitude RE: IN> Lilith? Re: IN> Lilith? Re: Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) Re: Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) Re: IN> Lilith? Re: Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) RE: IN> Lilith? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:35:05 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. We've seen a few minor choirs and bands on the list. Some of them serve Archangels or Princes. How about we outfit all the Superiors? I propose that the creative minds of the list wrap themselves around one Superior every several days and try to assign them an appropriately good minor band or choir. A perl script I've got can give us a random Superior every few days. I can then compile these writeups, with everyone's permission, and stick 'em in a webpage. My random Superior selector picks: Janus Luck of the draw. :-) So go ahead and get the creative juices churning and give our favorite Archangel of the Wind his very own minor choir. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:02:29 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? From: "Rolland Therrien" > > Prodigal has been arguing again and again that no matter what Lillith's > intentions would be after leaving Hell, the Host would still consider her > a lethal enemy and hunt her down without mercy. You either do not understand what I am writing, or you lie. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:44:41 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Sympathy for the Devil (was Lilith) ben wrote: > > Wrong. "Low contrast" is code for "Heaven and Hell aren't all that > > different." This can be bright or dark, humorous or not. "Good Omens" is > > an example of low contrast. > > I agree completely, but I bet most people who call their games "low > contrast" really do play their games by the motto of "hell is cool and > stuff." I doubt it. IME, it's a lot easier to convincingly portray a bad guy than a good guy, so I'm sure most of those games have Hell as a chaotic death camp and Heaven as a kind of Singapore with Malakim. Of course, in that sort of game I'd be strongly tempted to play a - -genuine- good guy, just to piss off the GM, but that's just me. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:50:27 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) > > Prodigal has been arguing again and again that no matter what Lillith's > > intentions would be after leaving Hell, the Host would still consider her > > a lethal enemy and hunt her down without mercy. > > You either do not understand what I am writing, or you lie. "No, I did not. My actual argument was that if Lilith left Hell, both Hell and Heaven would declare her fair game for destruction." -- Prodigal, 8/13/00 8:47 PM ... The Game Master's Guide handles this best when it gives dark and light ways to play each Superior. A dark Lilith has no redeeming features; she is a selfish, cowardly manipulator. A light Lilith is nicer than many Archangels, or she's the floozy fluff on Lucifer's arm in the Jessica Rabbit outfit. I suggest that further "debate" will not succeed in winning any converts or friends; go buy the GMG. A frightening game to play in would take advantage of GURPS In Nomine and cast the characters as humans. Play it as a dark, low contrast-game where any redeeming features are stripped away from all celestials. Angels become terrifying manifestations of the wrath of God and are suddenly not very human. Demons become little more than the worst urges of mankind given form and are suddenly frighteningly human. Saminga is scary because he's *serious*. He really, really wants to kill people and laugh at them when they are dead. Haagenti isn't cute. He *eats* people. Watch the hair on your players' necks rise when they realize that the bits of bone fragment with the gnaw marks on 'em belonged to their missing dependents. Watch the players run when the angel with the flaming sword and the black wings slowly turns towards then and, after a brief pause, announces, "You have been judged." Watch your players panic when they realize that the "nice" demon who was so pretty and kind to them suddenly owns their souls in the forms of several Gaes/6s. And invoking her seemed like such a good idea at the time... To make it worse, make 'em play humans using In Nomine rules. It'd be like Call of Cthulhu, except you're dealing with the armies of an omnipotent God and the forces that had the gumption to oppose him. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:56:31 -0300 From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca Subject: Re: IN> Yeeeeesh... On 14 Aug 00, at 7:20, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Bowden" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 7:12 AM > Subject: Re: IN> Yeeeeesh... > > > > > > > > --On Sunday, August 13, 2000 4:52 AM -0400 "Rev. Pee Kitty" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Now, let's all go back to discussing what music is most appropriate > > > when running an In Nomine game, okay? > > > > > > > Anyone else for the "Mortal Kombat" CD for the climactic fight > > scenes? > > "Touch", from the "Transformers" movie soundtrack, whenever somebody > chucks a 111... > > "Dare To Be Stupid" whenever the servitors of Kobal show up. "I Touch Myself" by the Divinyls, for when the servitors of the Beautiful Prince arrive. "Father Lucifer" by Tori Amos if you have a sufficiently surreal portrayal of the Lightbringer. "Is he going to get in trouble if he kills this other person?" "I would expect so, yes. Murder is generally frowned upon, even in America." "You may want to remind him of this." Philip Barkow pbarkow@is2.dal.ca http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/ Harbinger of Keener-sama Vice President DPG Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper. Lapsed Discordian Head of the Keiko-chanian faction ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:02:17 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? From: "Charles Glasgow" > > From: "Prodigal" > > > > > > Given that we've pretty much established that the genuine costs of > > > leaving her position etc. aren't necessarily so, then Lilith would > > > have to be perceiving wrongly for the perceived costs to be etc. > > > > Only if we all accept your assumptions, which I do not. > > Those "assumptions" are justified by the writeups. The writeups I have indicate otherwise. > > Not if she continues actively working against Heaven, she isn't. > > If she's going Renegade, she's not doing that. If she continues to further the Diabolic Word which she holds, she is. > > > > As does mine, although mine involves her deciding that the odds are > > > > better if she stays in Hell. > > > > > > Then she chooses her servitude willingly, and as such is liable for the > > > consequences of it. No excuses. > > > > Which is the exact sort of attitude that ensures that she will continue to > > rely on the security of her position. > > What kind of inverse logic is this? Her current position is what ensures > the emnity of Heaven to her in the first place! And their enmity gives her a perfect reason not to renounce the safety inherent in her position. It's called a vicious circle, Charles. > She abandons Hell and the > objectives of Hell, she's no longer on Heaven's target list. If Lilith decided to begin serving Heaven, then yes, she would cease to be on the target list. If she left Hell for any other reason, she would not. Look at the Ethereals, for example. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:16:44 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? From: "Christopher Gerkey" > > From: Charles Glasgow [mailto:cglasgow@hotmail.com] > > > Somehow, I kinda doubt that Lilith, Demon Princess Of > > Freedom, gave away > > that many Geas/6 on herself with the promise "I Will Never > > Try To Leave". > > Nah. Just one. To Lucifer, in exchange for the Word > of Freedom. That's exactly the sort of ironic > joke Lucifer would like, I think. Rather reminiscient of the story about the deal Lucifer cut with that group of humans, where he made one tiny change in the contracts which completely changed the balance of power in the deal to Hell's side. Where is that one posted, again? I think it's about time to give it another reading... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:17:19 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gerkey" To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 10:39 AM Subject: RE: IN> Lilith? > > From: Charles Glasgow [mailto:cglasgow@hotmail.com] > > > Somehow, I kinda doubt that Lilith, Demon Princess Of > > Freedom, gave away > > that many Geas/6 on herself with the promise "I Will Never > > Try To Leave". > > Nah. Just one. To Lucifer, in exchange for the Word > of Freedom. That's exactly the sort of ironic > joke Lucifer would like, I think. Problem is, Lilith walked away from her first job offer precisely because she thought it tried to bind her. What are the odds she'd accept that same kind of binding from anyone else? "If I have to enslave myself to you to get it, it's not really Freedom. I'm not *that* stupid." And yes, Baleraphic resonance. But even that wears off in a few millennia. And yes, Lucifer might continually re-apply it over and over again. Perfectly possible scenario for a variant IN campaign. But not likely going on current writeup implications. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:25:30 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Planning my Superior dinner party Zeresh wrote: >Are you sure it's a good idea to bring Blandine and Beleth into the >same room? Eessh your right! I forgot completely about their breakup! And I already sent out invitations! Geez okay Novalis I need you to keep Laurence and Blandine in the same room, I'll distract Beleth.... (and does anyone wonder if Beleth's preffered vessels look like Sleeping Beuty's villianess, Nev Cambel, and that girl from the Halloween movies?) >How, exactly, would you go about doing that :-) Well keeping Haagenti satisfied is actually quite possible, all I need is to ask him if he can get to the Tootsie Roll Center of a Tootsie Pop without biting.....(I always imagined he'd give a distinction to whoever suceeded in telling him how many licks it took-by the way it's 219). Either that or Hot pockets... Eesh maybe I'll just invite Litheroy. >It's nice to finally hear something from this list OTHER than the Lilith >thing, and it's about time. Whole heartidly agree though Lilith insisted on paying her share of the party's favors she enjoyed up front for some reason. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:38:41 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Sympathy for the Devil (was Lilith) - --On Monday, August 14, 2000 1:44 PM -0400 "Krishnaswami, Neel" wrote: > I doubt it. IME, it's a lot easier to convincingly portray a bad > guy than a good guy, so I'm sure most of those games have Hell as > a chaotic death camp and Heaven as a kind of Singapore with Malakim. > Bless you, this is SUCH a cool image! > > Of course, in that sort of game I'd be strongly tempted to play a > -genuine- good guy, just to piss off the GM, but that's just me. :) I do that in Shadowrun. Ticks off the gun nuts to no end.[1] Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation [1] Our last SR session: GM (as Shiro, a Yakuza boss): "Your mission is to eliminate these two gangs from this fishing village without being tied to it or being connected to me in any way. The safety of the villagers is paramount." Rigger (during the planning session): "We could just firebomb the derrick." Me: "Why don't we hire the two gangs, independently, through different agents, to recover 'something of value' from a group on this other little island. Land them on opposite sides of the island, give it an hour, and then circle the island in our own boat, and sink their boats, dressed as the other gang?" *A table full of blank stares* Street Sam: "We can DO that?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:41:13 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Prodigal and Charles' rantings on Lilith (was: Re: IN> Lilith?) From: "ben" > > > Prodigal has been arguing again and again that no matter what Lillith's > > > intentions would be after leaving Hell, the Host would still consider > > > her a lethal enemy and hunt her down without mercy. > > > > You either do not understand what I am writing, or you lie. > > "No, I did not. My actual argument was that if Lilith left Hell, both Hell > and Heaven would declare her fair game for destruction." > -- Prodigal, 8/13/00 8:47 PM You might want to try reading that in the context of any of the number of messages where I stated that if her reason for leaving Hell was to serve Heaven, then Heaven would not be out to destroy her. Then you would see exactly how false your "no matter what her intentions" statement is. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:37:28 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Lilith's Death/Redemption/Freedom Okay I'm going to state this up front....to give my .02 and maybe settle this (unlikely but possible) If Lilith redeemed.... Lilith is currently viewed by David, Laurence, Khalid, Dominic, and a few other militants as no different than any other Prince or Princess in Hell. If she honestly and sincerely repented of her evil and vowed to work towards Hell's defeat they would be overjoyed....however her just helping Heaven would be suspicious. Michael and Marc and others would be just glad she wouldn't be helping Hell. Some like Jordi wouldn't care either way (she doesn't geas animals). Jean and Novalis would likely be the biggest supporters to give Lilith slack until she's settled into her role as a proper Archangel/Saint/Ally of Heaven or whatever they intend to call her. On the flip side: Asmodeus, Baal, and Belial would make her destruction their number one prioty....the damage she could inflict on Hell is immense and they would not rest until she was unable to collect every geas in her posession. Lilim in service to Hell would find their lives EXTREMELY difficult and Free Lilim would be treated as rengegades by Asmodeus to prevent them from collecting Geas for mummy. Fufur and Haagenti and Andre would hang back and avoid ticking her off given the ammount of geas I imagine all of them owe her. Nybbas would get a few hundred years of storys out of this. *** If Lilith went Renegade: Laurence would along with David keep an extreme eye on her but consider her (most likely) less dangerous than she was as a Hellish princess. Indeed they'd eventually after some paranoia consider her a neutral force in the war ala the Ethereals. Michael would be friendly despite seeing her the same way. Dominic would work with Asmodeus to destroy her because she still has a Hellish word and she's still got geas on angels and she's still DANGEROUS....and not very pleasant. Jean would work to get her to redeem and Novalis would visit often her tower in the Marches (I suspsect she'd build one there). On the flip side: Asmodeus would begin a careful planning session to annhilate the "insipid" whore with Dominic just like he did with Makatiel and Legion. Hell while distrusting otherwise would not change much and still go to her for favors. Many Ethereals would consider her a friend and patron and work with her...thus giving her geas from many a pagan religeon as well. There, any disagreements? Oh forgot this... If Lilith died.... The Lilim would seek out new patrons ASAP or solidfy themselves in free status knowing that they'res nothing to keep the Princes off them should their be other problems. Hell and Heaven would lose a valuable resource but moreso the later....Hell would be more violent without the semi-humans to back them up and now unreplenishable. Temptation becomes less effective. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:45:29 GMT From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? >From: "Prodigal" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:02:17 -0500 > >From: "Charles Glasgow" > > From: "Prodigal" > > > Only if we all accept your assumptions, which I do not. > > > > Those "assumptions" are justified by the writeups. > >The writeups I have indicate otherwise. You've been singularly unsuccessful at quoting relevant material from them so far. > > > Not if she continues actively working against Heaven, she isn't. > > > > If she's going Renegade, she's not doing that. > >If she continues to further the Diabolic Word which she holds, she is. If Lilith is going Renegade, then she's no longer bound to work for the best interests of the Diabolicals. [snip] > > > Which is the exact sort of attitude that ensures that she will > > >continue to rely on the security of her position. > > What kind of inverse logic is this? Her current position is what > >ensures the emnity of Heaven to her in the first place! >And their enmity gives her a perfect reason not to renounce the safety >inherent in her position. It's called a vicious circle, Charles. What vicious circle? The reason Heaven is her enemy is because she's on Lucifer's payroll. She stops being on his payroll, she stops being their enemy. This kind of 'logic' is like allying with Nazi Germany in order to be safe from the Allies. You wanna be safe from the allies, you go *neutral*. How many bombs did we drop on Switzerland and Turkey? > > She abandons Hell and the objectives of Hell, she's no longer on > >Heaven's target list. >If Lilith decided to begin serving Heaven, then yes, she would cease to be >on the target list. If she left Hell for any other reason, she would not. Don't forget that you can abandon Hell and the objectives of Hell *without* serving Heaven. >Look at the Ethereals, for example. Out of date info. That was Uriel's bright idea, and he's no longer in charge there. And nobody else seriously wants to restart the Purity Crusade. Even Laurence, Uriel's biggest fan left in Heaven, only persecutes Ethereals that ally with Hell or feed off the Essence of humans. Those that stay out of it... are left out of it. Lilith will not be a "Let's kill her now" target for Heaven if she stops working for Lucifer, even if she doesn't want to actively serve Heaven... because it won't be in Heaven's best interests to act that way. Little net gain and a huge potential loss. If Heaven kills the first Prince that tries to go Renegade, going Renegade will become *enormously* less popular. Do you believe that the Seraphim Council is staffed by morons? - -- Chuckg ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:28:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> STOP! (was: Yeeeeesh...) On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 pbarkow@is2.dal.ca wrote: > On 14 Aug 00, at 7:20, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > > --On Sunday, August 13, 2000 4:52 AM -0400 "Rev. Pee Kitty" > > > > > > > > Now, let's all go back to discussing what music is most appropriate > > > > when running an In Nomine game, okay? > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else for the "Mortal Kombat" CD for the climactic fight > > > scenes? > > > > "Touch", from the "Transformers" movie soundtrack, whenever somebody > > chucks a 111... > > > > "Dare To Be Stupid" whenever the servitors of Kobal show up. > > "I Touch Myself" by the Divinyls, for when the servitors of the > Beautiful Prince arrive. No No NO! Okay, I guess I made an error assuming that all of you actually READ the 'welcome message' you got when you subscribed to this list... The topic of "What music goes well with an In Nomine game" has been EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN from this list. (That, and the subject "Who would play whom in an In Nomine movie", overran the list many eons past, to the point that Beth had to close it down and declare it OFF LIMITS.) See, that's why it was intended as a *joke* when I said what I said above. It's called irony... after posting about how the "Lilith" thread has gone from a discussion into a pointless, nearly-off-topic debate, I then went on to suggest something that was even more off-topic (expressly forbidden, even) as a JOKE. Beth, sorry. Maybe you need to have people fill out a quiz or something before joining, to prove they read the welcome message.... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! If I had a shiny gun, / I could have a world of fun Speeding bullets through the brains / Of the folk who give me pains; Or had I some poison gas, / I could make the moments pass Bumping off a number of / People whom I do not love. But I have no lethal weapon; / Thus does Fate our pleasure step on! So they still are quick and well / Who should be, by rights, in hell. -- Dorothy Parker, "Frustration" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:30:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Prodigal wrote: > Rather reminiscient of the story about the deal Lucifer cut with that group > of humans, where he made one tiny change in the contracts which completely > changed the balance of power in the deal to Hell's side. > > Where is that one posted, again? I think it's about time to give it another > reading... I remember that one! I loved it. Told from the perspective of an older demon... I think it's somewhere in the INC. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Though they broke my legs / They gave me a crutch to walk / Laws to guide me / And a crutch to walk. / Amen. -- Chumbawamba, "Today's Sermon" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:51:07 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Sympathy for the Devil (was Lilith) > > > > I agree completely, but I bet most people who call their games "low > > contrast" really do play their games by the motto of "hell is cool and > > stuff." > >I doubt it. IME, it's a lot easier to convincingly portray a bad >guy than a good guy, so I'm sure most of those games have Hell as >a chaotic death camp and Heaven as a kind of Singapore with Malakim. > Actually, when I did this, all the PCs were mortals, and both Heaven & Hell were very secretive & manipulative. It was supposed to be genuinely difficult for PCs to really judge who was 'good'. In practice, they tended to go with the ones they guessed were the angels, but there was never a great level of trust. Probably quite wisely, really :) jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:04:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Adam, Prince of somethingorother For a while, in the middle ages, there was a flurry of discussion over whether Adam personally was saved or damned. The general concensus was that Adam was ultimately saved. As a result, Dante stages an interview with Adam in the Paradiso section of his Divine Comedy. So, if you wanted to use this in IN, rather than make Adam a Prince, you could either make him a non-canonical human Archangel, in exact counterpoise to Lilith, or make him a maxxed-out Saint of, say, Destiny, and stay within canon; ditto Eve. Abel, I think, ought to be a Saint of the now-Outcast Grigori Archangel of Death, he being the first man dead. Cain could be hanging around the Marches as a long-time Dreamshade (a la Neil Gaiman) or an anomalous, pre-Saminga vampire or mummy (a la Ann Rice). Then there are Seth and all the other First Children, unnamed but referenced in Genesis. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:09:05 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Lilith? - --On Monday, August 14, 2000 6:45 PM +0000 Charles Glasgow wrote: > That was Uriel's bright idea, and he's no longer in charge there. > And nobody else seriously wants to restart the Purity Crusade. > Even Laurence, Uriel's biggest fan left in Heaven, only persecutes > Ethereals that ally with Hell or feed off the Essence of humans. > Those that stay out of it... are left out of it. Which would seem to be the way God wants it. And this makes sense. Humans have to be allowed to *choose* what they want to believe in. Offing the ethereals would remove part of that choice. It's hard to explain, and harder to wrap your brain around after, but there it is. I say that the current state of affairs meshes with the will of the Creator, because we all saw what happened to Uriel when he tried to push the issue. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("I wonder what *did* happen to Uriel. Or, worst case, his Forces...") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:52:18 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> Furfur, Archangel of Fortitude Not going to do the history and personality and so on, as it's fairly rough and vague... 'The world is being torn down; resist, you bastards!'(not a very good quote, but Redeemed Furfur isn't the nicest of Archangels..enthusiastic, but not nice)<<< Pretty good for a rough draft. :) I have a question though. Wouldn't Fortitude fall under David's area? I mean, the Archangel of Stone's job is to harden and strengthen people, so I would think that Fortitude would be something that came under that area. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:16:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> RE: Erik, Prince of Music This question was in the back of my head all weekend, but it only popped through a minute ago: What's the plus to invocation for the Animaniac's filking of Gilbert & Sullivan? There _has_ to be a plus, after all: every G&S enthusiast I know (myself included) laughed like loons during that episode... :) Morgan Kyriotate of Destiny Currently Assigned to Grand Central Station Tether ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:15:28 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Death/Redemption/Freedom - --On Monday, August 14, 2000 2:37 PM -0400 Charles Phipps wrote: > > If Lilith went Renegade: > *Can* Lillith go renegade? Disconnected from the power supplying her word, what would happen to her? I'm entertained by the image of an *incredibly* pissed-off remnant with a personal army and markers to call in all up and down the Infernal and Celestial coasts. Strap in. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("How long can I hide in the groves...?") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:26:06 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Furfur, Archangel of Fortitude Charles E Smith said: > Pretty good for a rough draft. :) I have a question though. Wouldn't > Fortitude fall under David's area? I mean, the Archangel of Stone's job > is to harden and strengthen people, so I would think that Fortitude would > be something that came under that area. In fact, Magog's Word was Foritude and he served under David. This is not to say that, under other circumstances, you couldn't have Fortitude as a Word for a Superior. Sean ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:23:26 -0500 From: Christopher Gerkey Subject: RE: IN> Lilith? > From: Charles Glasgow [mailto:cglasgow@hotmail.com] > "If I have to enslave myself to you to get it, it's not > really Freedom. > I'm not *that* stupid." > > And yes, Baleraphic resonance. But even that wears off in a > few millennia. Balseraphic resonance wears off. A geas doesn't. Lucifer: You should become the Princess of Freedom. You'd have lots of power and everyone would want your favor. I just want this little promise for insurance. Trust me, it's a great idea. Lilith: Okay, sounds sensible to me.