From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Aug 15 22:49:12 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10524 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:49:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA12683 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:07:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:07:31 -0500 Message-Id: <200008160307.WAA12683@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1783 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, August 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1783 In this digest: IN> Re: The limits to Lucifer IN> Word Granting, Lucifer Style... Re: IN> STOP! (was: Yeeeeesh...) Re: IN> Censorship Re: IN> The limits to Lucifer [Longish] Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Re: IN> list joining restrictions Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music IN> Question Re: IN> Furfur, Redeemed IN> Campaigns and Celestials (was Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music) Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music IN> [ADMIN] Censorship? You got it. IN> Limits to Lucifer Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. Re: IN>The limits to Lucifer Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Malphas, Shedite Prince of Factions Re: IN>Furfur, Redeemed Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Malphas, Shedite Prince of Factions Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony (plus the Malphas bit) Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer Re: IN> list joining restrictions Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Malphas, Shedite Prince of Factions Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony (plus the Malphas bit) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:52:53 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: IN> Re: The limits to Lucifer Alex Liddell wrote: > The burning question is: Is Lucifer really as powerful as all of > Hell believes him to be. Or. Why is it that he is so damn powerful. > > The arguement is that he is JUST another Demon Prince. No one knows > really what his word is although Darkness is a good bet. Baal is also > a Fallen Archangel as is Beleth and Andrephalus. Why are they not > on par with Lucifer. Baal especially. Well, IMC, they were. Lucifer *was* "just" another Prince. Asmodeus, Kronos, Kobal and Baal were pretty much as strong as Lucifer was; he retained his throne because those four were genuinely loyal to him, and because he was a devilishly good (sorry) politician who was adept at playing one side against the other. This did mean that Michael, Janus and Gabriel were each stronger than any of the infernal princes -- Heaven had a big advantage in terms of raw power. Hell continued mainly because it's a lot easier to corrupt and destroy than it is to strengthen and create. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:02:28 -0500 From: "Adam B. Ensinger" Subject: IN> Word Granting, Lucifer Style... Here's my $.02 (before tax) on Why Lucifer Can Grant Words But A Single Archangel Can't: I figure that any Archangel could grant a Word if they wanted to (or maybe just one of the originals could, who knows....). The reason they don't is because Heaven is a Team. The Seraphim Council works together for the best interests of all Heaven. Therefore, there must be a consenus in that body before a Word is granted. An AA granting a Word on his/her own would risk extreme censure (or trial, or worse) by Judgement, ostensibly for Treason against Heaven......I imagine that the greatest of the Host reached this agreement upon the inception of the Council. YMMV. Lucifer, on the other hand, is the ruler of the Pit, where selfishness is the standard. Shortly after the Fall, when Lucifer established his dominance over the Diabolicals, he reserved the right to grant Words. Perhaps any of the DP's (or again, maybe just the First of the Fallen AA's) could do it on their own too.......and perhaps the Morningstar would open a 666 gallon drum of Whoop-Ass(tm) on the first one fool enough to try. Maybe that's what really happened to Genubath; he granted the Word of Theft to his Servitor Valefor without the Lightbringer's consent, and Lucifer walloped him for it......all highly hypothetical, you understand. So there you have it. Comments/Accolades/Rotten Fruit accepted. Send all flames to the Demon of Spam. He likes the extra Essence. Adam Ensinger aensinger@sigecom.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:04:08 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> STOP! (was: Yeeeeesh...) "Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > > > It's been suggested making this list require a password to actually > > > join -- and burying the password in the Welcome message. It does > > > tempt. Perhaps embed it in various words, where you take the capital > > > letters... > > > > It's got my vote. At least that way the damn thing would get read... I vote against. Tempting as it may be, do we really want to put forward an image of being an exclusive, hard-to-join club? Let's face it, doing this will mean fewer people joining the list. I don't think it's all that unbearable to occasionally remind someone "Sorry, that topic is verboten." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:08:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Censorship > --On Monday, August 14, 2000 11:05 PM -0400 EDG > wrote: > > This is NOT a street corner; it's a privately-run mailing list. > > And the person who owns the mailing list has every right to throw > > you out, or to tell you what you can and can't talk about in her > > establishment. Just one correction: Beth doesn't _own_ the mailing list. She's just been given administrative control over it. (I agree with the rest, though.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:19:10 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The limits to Lucifer [Longish] From: > > Because Lucifer kept God's tongue as a souvener. Having killed the Metatron > Lucifer took some of those Forces and that's what gives him the power to > grant Words and otherwise do things that are obscene. This is my favorite of all your answers, if only for the truly evil things I can do with it as a basis... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:22:51 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. From: "O. S. Kerr" > > How about a Pride of Princes...? Nah, that's the term for a group of Balseraphs. Then there's a "Whatever" of Djinn, a Shattering of Calabim, an "OH, S#!T" of Malakim (when the Other Side is doing the referring, that is,) and a Clot of Shedim. I would have included what the term was for a gathering of Theft servitors, but I can't find the paper I had it written on... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:45:10 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Prodigal wrote: > Then there's a "Whatever" of Djinn, A Slouch of Djinn. > I would have included what the term was for a gathering of Theft servitors, A Flock of Magpies. - -David ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2000 17:31:55 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> list joining restrictions i'm voting against this as well. yes, our list-admin can do as she wills and thinks best, but the idea of restricting someone from joining a list because there was a hidden password in the welcome message--something they explicitly asked for to a list they asked to join--sends an elitist message that would have more negative impact than positive, i feel. let's just take a deep breath, relax, and remind the occasional new or forgetful soul. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:40:53 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. > What should we do with 'em once they're written? Do you want them emailed > direct to you, or shall we all just spam the list with 'em and you collate > them from there? I think it's safe to guess that we won't get any more of these than we got when people did the flip-flopped Superior writeups. I'd say post them to the list unless someone (Beth? Bueller?) complains; I'll collate them from there. > //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 17:08:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Twila Oxley Price Subject: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music >Um. This came to me in the shower over the weekend, >and I had to share. Nice job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the artists mentioned real*? Which leads one to a point that doesn't come up all that often: how often do real people turn out to be celestials in your (group-"your", not just Twila-"your") average campaign? I avoid them like the plague, myself (why, I'm not entirely sure). Morgan *The names sound familiar, but I'm not a devotee of that type of folk music. Clam Chowder and SCA bands, that's my weakness, :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:53:48 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music From: "Maurice Lane" > > Which leads one to a point that doesn't come up all > that often: how often do real people turn out to be > celestials in your (group-"your", not just > Twila-"your") average campaign? It's only happened once for me, and that was because I wanted to have a particular singer I liked be the AA of Music. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:54:15 EDT From: GodModerZ@aol.com Subject: IN> Question How do I get removed from this list? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Furfur, Redeemed Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:00:31 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: IN> Furfur, Redeemed >The post of Furfur as the Archangel of Fortitude got >my brain in a ferment... somehow, I just couldn't >wrap my head around the idea of Furfur with a Stone->esque Word. >This is what I came up with instead - now, granted, >it's no less weird, but it seems more appropriate to >Furfur. No, I haven't been smoking anything - >knowingly, anyway. Nice. I can scratch him off my To-Do List now.* :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Currently Working at Grand Central Station Tether *Everybody's got pet projects. Mine's Redeeming Princes. It's a quirk. But, I'm also lazier than all get-out, so... ;) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:57:40 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: IN> Campaigns and Celestials (was Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music) > Return-Path: moelane_1999@yahoo.com > Which leads one to a point that doesn't come up all > that often: how often do real people turn out to be > celestials in your (group-"your", not just > Twila-"your") average campaign? I avoid them like the > plague, myself (why, I'm not entirely sure). In what sense? Players? NPC? I'm running a mortals-only campaign. (although, one PC is well on her way to becoming undead... .) So all the PCs are non-celestial. A handfull of NPCs have been one side or the others, and no ethereals have shown up yet (at least, none have been definitively present). I've played in 4 IN games, and I've played 2 angels, a hellsworn and an etherial, but all but one of the angels were part of a one shot game, no campaign. As for NPCs, they were mixed. A few celestials, mostly mortals. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:00:25 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music (Oh, never mind me. I just realized I completely mis-read the question... Need more sleep. Definately.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:33:55 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, ben wrote: .What should we do with 'em once they're written? Do >you want them emailed direct to you, or shall we all >just spam the list with 'em and you collate them from >there? I was wondering about that myself. Might not be a bad idea for those of us with web pages to stick them on there and link, as well as emailing copies to you.* Moe *This is kind of important for me to know, because this writeup contest has now got me writing four of the blipping things...** **Well, you have to have the opposing Band, naturally, and since it's Valefor, the obvious opposition gets kinda funky. Luckily, Jean's minor Choir makes for a good dynamic, which means that Vapula comes into play, and at that point I started hitting myself with a stick to make the bad man stopped before I went through the whole bloody hierarchies. ;) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:07:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Twila Oxley Price Subject: Re: IN> Sehrah: Angel of Folk Music Morgan said 1. No, they're not real, although they *are* pastiches of some real people. Sara Maclean is an amalgam of the Kate Bush/Tori Amos/Dar Williams/Sarah McLaughlan/Loreena McKennitt (to name only the ones most likely to ping against most folks' resonances) type of singer-songwriter. Robbie and the band Leal are, again, an amalgam of several of the bigger and more long-lasting groups in Scottish music, aka Tannahill Weavers and the Battlefield Band. Each of them has one very charming front man who, variously, has played fiddle, keyboards, etc. And the playing of various old old instruments came directly from Antwn of Carrieg Lafar (who is not as charismatic as some, but who IS a master of about four instruments which you might never see otherwise!) I'm sure that you could substitute your flavour of folk music into the mix for vessels/personae and come out quite well. (I am not a big fan of bluegrass, for example, while it's quite likely that Sehrah could be very useful in that community.) 2. I *never* use real people. Fictional people, sometimes, yes, and the occasional off-stage appearance of, say, the pope or the governor, when needed... I've got a great write-up of Mallory, the detective from Carol O'Connell's Mallory series, frex, and my husband is always on me to let him play Clarence from the Bishop's Wife movie. Twila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:23:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Censorship? You got it. From that welcome message that everyone got and SHOULD have read: What do you mean, 'moderates' it? Are my constitutional rights to free speech being impinged here? You got it. Actually, free speech does not exist in a private forum such as this; just like you can't walk into a classroom or boardroom and just say what ever you want no matter how disruptive. Here's a soapbox and there's the corner of 1st and Main -- you have all the free speech you want there, not here. For those who've ever participated in a busy *un*moderated online forum, you'll appreciate the moderation here. Generally, there isn't much that's off limits. For those who did not read their "Welcome" message, the text of it is reproduced (sans a few typos, even!) at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html . Anyone who does not agree with those rules is free to u n s u b s c r i b e. I'll help, if need be. If someone wants to start up their own list to talk about their own stuff -- go for it. Or, to quote from that file again: So, where can I say or do the things I want to do but are not allowed on the List? Private email -- flame away there, although, you might start breaking telecommunication harassment laws if you do -- be warned. Side conversations involving only a few people are most appropriate in private email. The unmoderated Usenet newsgroups (but be warned, if you abuse their protocols, even though they are unmoderated and much more lax than the List, they'll make your life a living Hell). PBEM (Play By EMail) games and MUDS/MUSHES (see our website for links) are places where you can get all the online IN NOMINE role-playing you want. Some things, like "Casting Calls" or "Music" threads, are not forbidden on the Pyramid message board. Check out for subscription information. Create your own lists: , , , etc.... It'll be your dime -- do whatever you want there. Heck, you can even do and ***** about me to your little hearts' content. (Just don't spam me with posts from it. I don't care.) But this list is not a democracy, not a street corner, and I _will_ keep it under control when need be. (And for those who wondered, yes, I just had to u n s u b s c r i b e someone because its mailbox filled up and started bouncing. Over 200 messages on nearly _one_ topic, over the period of about 2 days? If that happens again, I'm going to be _blessed_ tempted to institute a post-quota for weekends...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:06:42 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Limits to Lucifer I thought I'd share my theory on why the Big Red "L" seems so powerful and just why he is able to do what the Seraphim Council requires each other to do. Basically Lucy knows how to manage his resources. 1:) Lucifer's Word His word is "Light" and thus all acts that further the cause of free will, enlightment, guidence, and in my opinion seeking all further his word. One of course wonders exactly why this would help him very much because this word seems to be very benevolent however by it's very nature, IMO, it allows him to benifit from every single sin done in Hell. Free will excercising to Sin is obviously the biggest chunk of excercising he's getting......enlightment probably the least though people rising up and questioning traditional values and morality is probably a good chunk of essence there, guidence works well with the temptations his servitors are putting (in fact ALL temptations). 2:) The Lower Hells This is basically another part that Lucifer has benifited from; the meanest NASTIEST, closest to irredeemable scumbags in Hell all are located in the Lower Hells where Lucifer and whatever servitors he has inflict things that would make Andrephalus and Belial vomit. These souls are in my opinion "Lucifer's private stash" as Fleurity would put it. The Lower Hells are so incredibly vast Lucifer has more souls than probably all but all the princes combined. 3:) Study My biggest belief is that all Archangels can bestow words but it simply requires alot of energy to do so....thus they team up (it's possible thus that words are merely "the next step" with distinctions). Lucifer thus can concievably remove any word he bestows which frees up alot of his time to avoid people thinking about taking him out.... That time in my mind has been spent studying the underpinnings of the Symphony like Vapula and Yves do. In my mind however he does it better than these two ever could and thus has a few crapshots the Archangels don't have any clue about...OR the demon princes.... In my opinion he has all of Beleth's Knowledge, most of Kronos's, and keeps aprised of the princibles underlying Vapula's little tricks. So the question is...Can Lucifer be killed? Oh most certainly...I believe he might beat Michael now because he has such a vast essence reserve but he's still just an Archangel with alot of tricks up his sleeve but NOT an infinite number. Lucifer the Balseraph's primary weapon is autonomity; he stays out of people's way so people wonder about him and appears kindly/okay guy when he does appear to throw people off. Worked with Khalid after all. He can also be outsmarted too though it's very difficult and happens VERY rarely... All in all I'd say he's about as powerful as Yves, Michael, and David together....with that being the maximum of his abilities. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:53:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. At 11:40 AM -0600 8/15/00, ben wrote: >I think it's safe to guess that we won't get any more of these than we got >when people did the flip-flopped Superior writeups. I'd say post them to >the list unless someone (Beth? Bueller?) complains; I'll collate them from >there. I'm okay with it so long as they're all plain-text -- bearing in mind that things pasted into some mailers will need to be double-checked to make sure they don't carry the HTML taint. (I will smack HTML as usual.) I'd also like it if these could be kept under 10K each, so there is a prayer that it won't overflow the digests... (I hate seeing "mailbox full" bounces...) (I won't smack 11K. I will dance on your grave at 20K+. Play with the gray line between at your own fisk... };> ) That said, I also have no problem with people sending them in private email, or putting them on web pages and sending URLs. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:14:08 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN>The limits to Lucifer I have seen all of these implinented, from both GM and PC persepective. I'm a fan of #1, with some of #2 thrown in for spice. I think #5 comes closest to canon.<<< I personally like the idea of #2 and #3 mixed. :) Although, I just thought of something. If some of Metatron's Forces mixed with Lucifer, perhaps it has slowly altered his personality, which is why he is absent and so seemingly mild-mannered? ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:02:32 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony Haagenti is a bit nervous and afraid, and if he were more intelligent he'd be a LOT more nervous and afraid. As it is, it's difficult to say whether his feeling of worse-than-usual emptiness is only psychsomatic or a symptom of a Great Mystery... }:-{D Redneck (what, you expect me to tell you which? }:-{D )<<< Tease. :P Watching Haagenti try to hack out his own place in the politics of post-Acopalyptic Hell should be quite interesting. Haagenti: "Uhhhh....Malphas, Kronos, how do I get to be an important Prince?" Kronos and Malphas: *evil grins* "Come this way buddy...." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:22:54 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Malphas, Shedite Prince of Factions The game is the most dangerous one he's ever played, but he's confident of an endgame soon, and while his puppets knock Saminga from the throne, Malphas will be right there to snatch it away.<<< One question. Wouldn't Malphas be on the fast track to being ousted as a Demon Prince? I seem to recall (I may be wrong) that Malphas did not fight at Armageddon. With Lucifer gone and Asmodeus dead, wouldn't Saminga (or rather Kronos since he's doing the day-to-day work) decide that the Demon Prince of Factions was a greater danger to Hell than Heaven or Earth? No criticism intended, just wondering. :) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:08:15 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN>Furfur, Redeemed In the throes of his burnout, Furfur is a completely changed celestial. From the loud-mouthed, in-your-face Demon Prince of Harcore, he is the softly-spoken, reserved Angel of Humility. He is almost pathetically grateful for the trust the Council places in him. However, it has been documented that cases of burnout do, sometimes, recover... <<< Nice angel. :) I could see demonic campaigns where former Servitors of Hardcore try to get their boss back, and Belial, Baal, and Asmodeus try to get their hooks on him for their own reasons. Also, what would happen in Hell if Furfur made Archangel status (despite his own protestations). ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:57:18 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Malphas, Shedite Prince of Factions At 03:22 PM 8/15/00 +0000, you wrote: >The game is the most >dangerous one he's ever played, but he's confident of an endgame soon, >and >while his puppets knock Saminga from the throne, Malphas will be right >there to snatch it away.<<< > >One question. Wouldn't Malphas be on the fast track to being ousted as a >Demon Prince? No. Malphas has a lot of Servitors still, although he lost quite a few in his attack on Washington, D. C.... he had driven away Novalis, who would be captured later, and was just about to capture the human government when the balloon went up. As a result, Malphas has not said very much about his involvement in the battle, because Novalis was captured in the Glade by two former Dukes of the War, Washington was turned into a radioactive inlet of Chesapeake Bay, and about a third of his followers lost their vessels in the detonation. They are, by and large, -still- in Trauma, and quite a few never returned (giving Vapula ideas about a fission-powered Force-ripper)... To make matters worse for Malphas, a lesser number of his servitors, the most notable being Roshtandariel, have struck out on their own, carving out their own factions on Earth after the Apocalypse. Malphas has brought most, but not all, of these to heel in some fashion. Despite this, Malphas is currently indispensable in Hell's hierarchy, since all the Princes with any ambition to the Throne think he is in their corner, and Kronos is of the opinion that Malphas is as much an improvement over Saminga as any of the other Princes. Thus, for the -moment,- none of them are considering eliminating him. Redneck Kris Overstreet, aka Redneck Gaijin publisher, White Lightning Prod. - www.wlpcomics.com I ***LOATHE*** Microsoft Outlook. Please get Eudora. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:24:26 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer Charles Phipps scrawled this: >1:) Lucifer's Word > >His word is "Light" and thus all acts that further the cause of free will, >enlightment, guidence, and in my opinion seeking all further his word. It is canon that Words are lost when an angel falls/demon redeems, however has it been presented in canon as to what Lucifer's Word is? Or, indeed, if he really has one? Sure, Prince of Darkness is a popular title, but who's to say if it's really accurate? As far as reasons as to why the L-man is so powerful, I generally use the method that Lucifer's "rebellion" is really nothing more than an expanded Eden experiment. Lucifer's power is granted by God and sometimes for reasons that he doesn't even understand, or remember. Of course, I like to think that the Fall changed him, his Seraph nature was shattered in this experiment that God concocted he believes that the rebellion was real, that this really is a war he started. Add in the Lower Hells (Charles Phipps #2 idea) the disturbance that that chaos may have inflicted on his mind and you've got a very intelligent, very disturbed, and very powerful individual. He's got extreme power that God gave him and only God (in God's ineffible way) knows why. ...Of course, this all might explain why the increasingly bored and unhappy Kobal hasn't left. :) Just my $10 (because my thoughts are worth so much more than a mere $0.02). - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of The Game - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com Go Directly to the Blog http://www.impudite.com/abt-blog.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:56:27 -0700 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer - -----Original Message----- From: Erich S. Arendall To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 5:38 PM Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer > >Charles Phipps scrawled this: >>1:) Lucifer's Word >> >>His word is "Light" and thus all acts that further the cause of free will, >>enlightment, guidence, and in my opinion seeking all further his word. > >It is canon that Words are lost when an angel falls/demon redeems, however >has it been presented in canon as to what Lucifer's Word is? Or, indeed, if >he really has one? Sure, Prince of Darkness is a popular title, but who's to >say if it's really accurate? Here's what I think Lucifer's word... is Hell. That's it. Hell, and everything it compasses, everything in it, everything it influences, is Lucifer's word and domain. That's why he's so powerful, and seems so unbeatable to the other demons and demon Princes. No matter what the political situation of Hell is like, it furthers Hell, and ultimatly Lucifer. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:01:16 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer > Here's what I think Lucifer's word... is Hell. That would make Lucifer a Seneschal, and Hell a Tether. Where is Hell a Tether to? Hmmmmm . . . Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:04:43 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolland Therrien" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:56 PM Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer > Here's what I think Lucifer's word... is Hell. That's it. Hell, and > everything it compasses, everything in it, everything it influences, is > Lucifer's word and domain. That's why he's so powerful, and seems so > unbeatable to the other demons and demon Princes. No matter what the > political situation of Hell is like, it furthers Hell, and ultimatly > Lucifer. You're on the right track -- the way Lucifer works, he most likely has a Word that is furthered no matter *what* the other Princes do, and one that's all-encompasing. So my best guess is that Lucifer's is "Evil". Or "Selfishness", if you don't want to get into questions of good-evil. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:37:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony (plus the Malphas bit) ate: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:40:38 -0500From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony Loved both of them, not least because you're taking them in directions I'd never go. :) Now, how about Vapula? Please, please, PLLLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE??? We've been good, but it seems like we've been waiting _forever_... ;) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > Prodigal wrote: > > Then there's a "Whatever" of Djinn, > > A Slouch of Djinn. > > > I would have included what the term was for a gathering of Theft servitors, > > A Flock of Magpies. Is anyone collecting these? - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Q: How many roleplayers does it A: 3d6 take to change a light bulb? ------------------------------ Date: 16 Aug 2000 01:58:11 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Limits to Lucifer On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:04:43 Charles Glasgow wrote: [snip] >So my best guess is that Lucifer's is "Evil". Or "Selfishness", if you >don't want to get into questions of good-evil. i rather groove on the idea that Lucifer's Word shifted at his Fall from Light to Darkness. it's a traditional Word for him to hold, and it's sufficiently independent of the other Princes' actions while subsuming their actions to his own benefit at the same time. -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:43:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> list joining restrictions On 15 Aug 2000, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > i'm voting against this as well. yes, our list-admin can do as she wills and thinks best, but the idea of restricting someone from joining a list because there was a hidden password in the welcome message--something they explicitly asked for to a list they asked to join--sends an elitist message that would have more negative impact than positive, i feel. let's just take a deep breath, relax, and remind the occasional new or forgetful soul. Not a HIDDEN password, really. At the top of the "welcome message", it would say in big letters: "THERE IS A PASSWORD REQUIRED TO JOIN IN_NOMINE-L. Don't worry, it's found somewhere in this welcome message, un-hidden and un-obfuscated, clearly labelled. Just read this entire email and you will have no problems." or something of the sort. Then, somewhere in the last third... "Rule Eight: No flaming. (Same as Rule Seven - it bears repeating for emphasis.) Thank you for reading this through, by the way... the magic term you're looking for is "metatron". Just add that to the end of your s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e line when you reply." - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "When nothing's funny, it gets easy to laugh at the drop of a hat - or a bomb." -- Devo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:47:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN>[DARK VICTORY] Malphas, Shedite Prince of Factions On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Charles E Smith wrote: > > One question. Wouldn't Malphas be on the fast track to being ousted as a > Demon Prince? I seem to recall (I may be wrong) that Malphas did not > fight at Armageddon. With Lucifer gone and Asmodeus dead, wouldn't > Saminga (or rather Kronos since he's doing the day-to-day work) decide > that the Demon Prince of Factions was a greater danger to Hell than > Heaven or Earth? No criticism intended, just wondering. :) You're assuming that Saminga thinks about this kind of stuff. I'm fairly sure he doesn't. He thinks, "Kill, kill, kill, kill..." now that the Granite Throne has gone to his head. And I'm not exaggerating. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Human germ!" -- Shrapnel (Decepticon), _Transformers: The Movie_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:05:24 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony (plus the Malphas bit) At 06:37 PM 8/15/00 -0700, you wrote: >ate: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:40:38 -0500From: Kris >Overstreet >Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince >of Gluttony > >Loved both of them, not least because you're taking >them in directions I'd never go. :) > >Now, how about Vapula? > >Please, please, PLLLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE??? We've been >good, but it seems like we've been waiting >_forever_... Vapula hasn't changed very much at all with the Apocalypse. He cares less than before about Diabolic politics, and his researchers are less quiet about their experiements than before, but in general, Vapula is not nearly so interesting as his prime test subject. DAVID Malakite of Stone Corporeal - 0 (Strength 0, Agility 0) Ethereal - 2 (Intelligence 7, Precision 1) Celestial - 3 (Will 10, Perception 2) David lies strapped to a vivisection table in the lowest depths of Vapula's labs, almost senseless, almost helpless, almost dead... holding together by sheer will. Despite the most elaborate tortures, the prolonged stripping of Forces in an oh-so-careful manner, even the failed efforts to remove David's Oaths from his essence, all have proved fruitless. Vapula had originally planned the vivisection for Jean, but Jean had done Vapula the disservice of not surviving Armageddeon to be captured. Now, Vapula had Malakim aplenty to study, and David has not proved as entertaining as he'd hoped... not a single scream! No surprises, no entertainment... nothing! Vapula is not done with David yet, no. He's tired of taking Forces away, and is now willing to experiment with grafting them on... beginning with those of an unfortunate Shedite of Laughter who didn't run quite fast enough from the scientists at Southwest Electronics... Redneck Kris Overstreet, aka Redneck Gaijin publisher, White Lightning Prod. - www.wlpcomics.com I ***LOATHE*** Microsoft Outlook. Please get Eudora. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1783 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.