From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 17 12:50:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29691 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:50:18 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA08231 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:48:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:48:11 -0500 Message-Id: <200008171748.MAA08231@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1785 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1785 In this digest: Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Re: IN> Saminga! Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. Re: IN> list joining restrictions re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) All about praise (was Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim) Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim Recommendation against micromanagement [was Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim] Re: IN> list joining restrictions Re: IN> Saminga! IN> Dark Face of God IN> The College of Saints, a Collective Superior IN> Billions and billions of souls... Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Re: IN> Word-binding (Re: Limits to Lucifer) IN> S3 Art Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Re: IN> Word-binding (Re: Limits to Lucifer) IN> Domini Canes -- A Minor Dominican Choir ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:43:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim *muttermutter* *administer wristslap* (Well, more details in private, but we will not go into those in public, neh?) (Why only a wrist-slap? Well, she's going to be on her wedding* and honeymoon, so what would be the point of doing more? She wouldn't be around to sit in the corner and meditate upon her sins anyway**. Still, if anyone has something to say _besides_ praise (which generally ought to be in private email anyway), please try to save it till Monday. I _don't_ want to see a repeat of those three screens of All The Same Subject Over The Weekend...) (* Which means she might not have seen me laying down the smack in the first place. I've heard about her wedding. I've surely lost SAN from the mere descriptions. ) (** Knowing Em, she'll be off doing _new_ sins, reading bad books, and generally being sadistic as usual...) - --Beth, tired and headachey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:54:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner-Thornber Subject: Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim > (* Which means she might not have seen me laying down the smack in the > first place. I've heard about her wedding. I've surely lost SAN from > the mere descriptions. ) Nope. Sorry. I've been doing bulk email delete lately. Just no time to follow a zillion posts. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emily K. Dresner-Thornber -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:19:08 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (* Which means she might not have seen me laying down the smack in the > first place. I've heard about her wedding. I've surely lost SAN from > the mere descriptions. ) Excuse me. Are you saying that if someone has an interesting Lilith writeup, or new Lilith attunements, or a Lilith adventure seed, or anything else Lilith-related, they may not post it until such time as you give permission to do so? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:19:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:05:24 -0500From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Haagenti, Demon Prince of Gluttony (plus the Malphas bit) At 06:37 PM 8/15/00 -0700, you wrote: >>Now, how about Vapula? >Vapula hasn't changed very much at all with the >Apocalypse. He cares less than before about Diabolic >politics, and his researchers are less quiet about >their experiements than before, but in general, >Vapula is not nearly so interesting as his prime test >subject. >DAVID >Malakite of Stone Sweet Maker of All. It worked. It actually _worked_. You have no idea how long I've waited for this moment. The months of plotting and scheming. The impatient weeks since we got a hint of new Dark Victory material. The subtle weighing of language in posts. The careful, oh so careful, circling around the subject, gingerly waiting until your fertile brain returned to the subject of DV Superiors. My artlessly casual (and mildly pathetic) pleading on a related topic. But it's paid off. By God and His Throne, it's paid off. You've mentioned David in a Dark Victory context. I can now shamelessly make an "idle suggestion" without looking like I'm trying to muscle in on your world! Right. Where's that blipping piece of paper? Oh, yes: "Hmmm. Wasn't there a Malakite of Light somewhere in the books (Shenir, Liber Castellorum, pg 123-124) that was Senechal of a Tether of Light (northern Quebec) out in the middle of nowhere? Wonder whether he made it through the Last War without anyone noticing, especially since the only ones who really knew he was there were Lucifer (who was kinda busy at the time) and David (who ain't talking). "Be nice if his Tether survived to attach itself to Lucifer's new Cathedral, though I suppose that it probably didn't, what with the upheavals and everything. That means that if even if he survived the loss of his Tether, he'd be a terminal case. It's always sad to see a Malakite who'll die without one last blazing act of honor. "I certainly _hope_ that he doesn't know that the only entity who bothered to relieve his loneliness over the last twenty millennia is currently being ripped apart Force by Force by a sadistic, cackling, dishonorable madman. I mean, that would probably depress him, or something." _God_, did that feel good to get out. ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Yeah, I was being a LITTLE Facetious. Not much, but a little. What did you think got me into writing up my own Heretics in the first place, anyway? :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:55:23 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 8:19 PM Subject: re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) [snip] > "I certainly _hope_ that he doesn't know that the only > entity who bothered to relieve his loneliness over the > last twenty millennia is currently being ripped apart > Force by Force by a sadistic, cackling, dishonorable > madman. I mean, that would probably depress him, or > something." > > > > _God_, did that feel good to get out. > > ;) You are evil. Evil, I say. :-) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:05:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. - --- "O. S. Kerr" wrote: > > > Anybody come up with a good name for a gathering of > > > DPs? Especially when gathered as a formal group. I like "scheme" -- both for its obvious connotation and for its meaning as a pattern (i.e. a rhyming scheme). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Saminga! - --- Marc Bowden wrote: > Take a deep breath. > > Picture the SamingaMobile(tm). > > Isn't that better? Oooooh... that's just *wrong.* };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I Dunno. "A bloodfeud of Demon Princes" isn't snappy enough, somehow. - --- Prodigal wrote: > From: "O. S. Kerr" > > > > How about a Pride of Princes...? > > Nah, that's the term for a group of Balseraphs. > > Then there's a "Whatever" of Djinn, a Shattering of Calabim, an "OH, > S#!T" > of Malakim (when the Other Side is doing the referring, that is,) and > a Clot > of Shedim. Don't forget a Balance of Elohim, an Embrace of Mercurians and a Blaze of Ofanim. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:19:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Contest: Minor Choirs and Bands. - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > **Well, you have to have the opposing Band, naturally, > and since it's Valefor, the obvious opposition gets > kinda funky. Luckily, Jean's minor Choir makes for a > good dynamic, which means that Vapula comes into play, > and at that point I started hitting myself with a > stick to make the bad man stopped before I went > through the whole bloody hierarchies. ;) Don't bother. I already did. Not counting the ones that won't be included (because they've already been done, or won't be): David/Malphas Dominic/Asmodeus Eli/Kobal Gabriel/Belial Janus/Valefor Jean/Vapula Jordi/Haagenti Laurence/Andrealphus Marc/Nybbas Michael/Baal Novalis/Saminga Yves/Kronos By the by, I recommend that we exclude the minor Superiors from this. Not because it wouldn't be interesting (I can see all kinds of possibilities for Litheroy), but because the ability to create a minor Choir or Band makes sense as one of the things that separates major Superiors from the minor ones. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> list joining restrictions I am not in favor of password protecting the list because it won't solve the problem. Such a move only filters out the people who don't read the welcome message -- but lots of rude people don't mind reading. The problem is simply respecting boundaries, and the only way to get people to do that is to enforce the boundaries. A "3 strikes" rule would, IMO, work better -- flame 3x and the admin boots you from the list. First time might only be a 1-3 month suspension. Get booted again, and it's for keeps. Thoughts on this, anyone? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:47:25 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] (longish) At 06:19 PM 8/16/00 -0700, you wrote: >"Hmmm. Wasn't there a Malakite of Light >somewhere in the books (Shenir, Liber Castellorum, pg >123-124) that was Senechal of a Tether of Light >(northern Quebec) out in the middle of nowhere? >Wonder whether he made it through the Last War without >anyone noticing, especially since the only ones who >really knew he was there were Lucifer (who was kinda >busy at the time) and David (who ain't talking). Okay, official response: With the fall of Heaven and the removal of the Upper Heavens, all- and I mean ALL- then existing divine Tethers were disconnected. However, the Tether was disconnected, not physically destroyed, and Shenir was left to his own devices, stripped of his Word but surviving still. Shenir is the VERY LAST surviving Celestial on either side who served Lucifer before the Fall. He knew the instant Lucifer Redeemed, and he knows vaguely that he must travel south and east... and he will keep traveling as inconspicuously as possible, looking for any sign of Light. At the start of the earliest DV campaigns, the Malakite of Light would be in Quebec (a city fortifying itself both to conquer the rest of Canada and to directly challenge the Northeast States of America); in four months' time, he may be in Boston in time for the events of 'Let Freedom Ring' (resumed work); but not until about a year after Armageddeon, about the time the Princes move against Saminga, will Shenir show up in Austin under his own power. Any member of New Heaven who discovers Shenir before then and reunites him with Lucifer will get a boon from the Archangel of Light, - -anything,- and will probably retain his goodwill for a good long time thereafter. Any loyal servant of Hell who captures Shenir- ALIVE- and manages to retain the credit will get lesser boons from their Superiors and a major Reputation in the Lower Circles. With some work, the old Tether -could- be reopened, but it's not likely to be one of New Heaven's major priorities; it's close to -nothing-, known by - -nobody,- and would cost more in effort and Essence than it's worth. Since only David and Shenir know the Tether was active anytime recently, it is - -not- considered possible for any PCs who have not encountered the Tether before Armageddeon to know about it afterwards. Does that tie things off? Redneck Kris Overstreet, aka Redneck Gaijin publisher, White Lightning Prod. - www.wlpcomics.com I ***LOATHE*** Microsoft Outlook. Please get Eudora. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:11:34 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: All about praise (was Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim) Still, >if anyone has something to say _besides_ praise (which generally ought >to be in private email anyway Actually, I think it's sweet if people want to send (short) comments of praise to the list about _anything_ they see here. It's always nice for writers to get feedback, and it encourages people to do more ;) jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:17:36 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim Chill. I do think it's fair to ask people to give it a week or so for things to calm down on that particular topic before posting given the recent Lilith-spams. I'd rather do that than have it flare up again. jo >From: David Edelstein >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:19:08 -0500 > >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > (* Which means she might not have seen me laying down the smack in the > > first place. I've heard about her wedding. I've surely lost SAN from > > the mere descriptions. ) > > >Excuse me. Are you saying that if someone has an interesting Lilith >writeup, or new Lilith attunements, or a Lilith adventure seed, or >anything else Lilith-related, they may not post it until such time as >you give permission to do so? > >-David ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:07:41 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Recommendation against micromanagement [was Re: IN> On Lilith and Bright Lilim] Our spies report that on 06:17 AM 8/17/00 +0000, Jo Hart said: >Chill. I do think it's fair to ask people to give it a week or so for >things to calm down on that particular topic before posting given the >recent Lilith-spams. I'd rather do that than have it flare up again. Though you will note the topic was banned because of the volume of posts generated, not the content. I admit it is very, very unlikely that so massive a volume would be entirely 'good' meterial, but I not certain banning any givne topic that generates a flurry of interest (without knowing what the content is) is the right response. I have always been of the opinion that even when this list gets ultra-hyper, the traffic is easily manageable. I sued to subscribe to some really high volume lists -- and even then, killing a thread I didn't like was always a personal choice. But what about the digest readers, you may ask? Digests are for the weak! But TNMS was digest-only when I was there and I found it easy enough to skip threads I didn't like. (And trust me, TNMS being the Rush (the band) mailing list, there were more annoying people and annoying topics than we ever have here.) In short, if people are spamming the list with no real content, flaming pointlessly (as opposed to hotly debating) or going on at length about things even a Balseraph wouldn't say belong on the list ... then chastise them. Let the choice of what threads to follow or not stay with the individual. It's easy enough to do with modern mail clients nad I was doing iit a decade ago at a unix shell prompt. Mailing lists and newsgroups and killfiling have been around a liong time. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:05:09 -0400 From: Bull Subject: Re: IN> list joining restrictions At 10:43 PM 8/15/00 -0400, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >Not a HIDDEN password, really. > Hehe... This is mildly amusing, as I've done something simlar myself on occasion to make sure someone reads something... Recently, I organized the Shadowrun RPG Tourney at Origins, and over the last couple of years we keep tweaking the GM guidelines (WHich cover everything from a guideline to what various scores mean to what sort of behavior is expected and stuff). It's important that my GMs read this and read this well, as in effect we are working for FASA at the convention. So basically I slipped in something similar to what Archangel Beth did (is doing? is thinking about doing? I've been away at Gen Con so I'm playing Catch Up :)). And I told my players that there was a hidden message. This doesn't guarantee taht they'll read it, but I did get an e-mail from every one of them with the "Secret Word" :] Thus, I knew they'd at least read this stuff (I'd posted several versions over the previous couple months and had gotten precious little feedback, so I was worried that this stuff was getting ignored). The Welcome message/FAQ stuff is VERY important on a mailing list with any sort of traffic, honestly. I'm on or have been on many different lists over the years, and have seen what happens on lists when this stuff gets ignored. As a list Admin myself, I know it's hard to keep everyone happy and keep everything friendly, and I dread whenever the concept of "free speech" comes up. Simply put, any board, list, or forum where there is a moderator is NOT subject to the myth of free speech. You're allowed only what the moderator allows. It's like being a guest in their house. Bull _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:11:12 -0400 From: David Wood Subject: Re: IN> Saminga! Quoth Michael Walton on 8/16/00 10:07 PM: > > --- Marc Bowden wrote: >> Take a deep breath. >> >> Picture the SamingaMobile(tm). >> >> Isn't that better? > > Oooooh... that's just *wrong.* };> Actually, when I see "Saminga!", I always think immediately after it, "On Ice!" I can even hear the mellifluous tones of the announcer, the spotlights playing around the skating arena, the drum roll crescendoing, all attention drawn to the parting curtains where... I'll let your imaginations do all the work. Any attempt to put it into words would not do the image justice. (Okay, I suppose if you want to keep it Hellish, you can freeze some living souls under the ice...) - --David http://home.bluecrab.org/~dwood "Yo quiero el bazo de ese molesto perro!" ("I want the spleen of that annoying dog!") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:18:21 EDT From: Daedalus3D@aol.com Subject: IN> Dark Face of God << In our INCREDIBLY NON-CANON* stuff, (IOC, IOW**), Kronos also has the ability (almost certainly) to Word-bind. He just never does. Maybe he doesn't know he can. Maybe he just lets everyone think Lucifer is the only source of Words in Hell. >> I like that. It works. Ditto for Yves too actually. In my opinion, Yves is a pure unadulterated aspect of the Symphony and is therefore nothing less than the embodiment of God. He's a more personable version of Metatron. To be awfully heretical, I always thought that Kronos was the exact same thing for the other side. The incarnation of everything that is dark about God. God is good not because he's nice but because he's perfect. God's good in the way that God declared the world (with all it's complications and imperfections) good. "God is complete" might be a better way of putting it. And what thing can be complete without a dark side. Thus, Kronos. If anybody disagrees that God would contain anything dark and/or "evil," I'd like to point out that God is completely ineffable as far as humanity (and Celstials for that matter) go. He operates on a completely different level. He is "beyond good and evil" as Nietche (sp?) said. Okay, enough metaphysics. Later. Daedalus/Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:50:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> The College of Saints, a Collective Superior THE COLLEGE OF SAINTS - A Collective Heavenly Superior After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people, and tongue, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." - -- Revelation 7:9-10 This is an extra-canonical idea for running a Saint-heavy game. The College of Saints consists of all those human souls in Heaven who are not already officially in the employ of an Archangel. In a Christian-flavored game, the College was founded at Christ's Ascension. In other games, it has been there since human souls started entering Heaven. These Saints, when operating in concert in sufficient numbers, have many of the powers of an Archangel. And the numbers are more than sufficient. There are millions of them. There would be billions, but a lot ascend Jacob's Ladder to the Higher Heavens. Saints can learn the Celestial and Ethereal Songs of Life, but nothing happens unless 72 Saints sing in chorus. Then, the chorus can create a reliever or a permanent Ethereal It also takes a quorum of 72 Saints to endow or strip Forces, attune a new servitor to the service of the College, or to redeem a demon. It takes 24 Saints to endow a vessel, a distinction, or a servitor attunement. It also takes 24 Saints to remove or inflict dissonance or discord. The Servitors of the College are sent to Earth on a huge variety of missions, since the College is as widely various as humanity itself (or humanity at its best, anyway). They are also often in service to the Archangels. (And many of Eli's Servitors are now in service to the College.) Since the College is so large, it is fairly common for different members and groups, and their servitors, to work at cross purposes with each other. Every Servitor of the Saints has a Director, a Saint who is its first contact with the College. This is typically the Saint who proposed the angel as a servitor. It is the Director who appears in response to a Summoning by the angel. There are four grades of Saints within the College: Minor Saint -- This "ordinary" soul may have formidable gifts and powers, but does not happen to have a lot of social "pull" within the College. The vast majority of Saints are minors. Major Saint -- This Saint can reliably gather a quorum of 24 fellow Saints willing to help them with vessels, distinctions, attunements, dissonance, or discord. Great Saint -- This Saint can reliably a quorum of 72 fellow Saints willing to help them with creating relievers or Ethereals, juggling Forces in celestials, attuning new servitors, or redeeming demons. High Saints -- This group is more ill-defined. These Saints are able to sway the policy of the whole College, so that their plans are unlikely to be deliberately and openly opposed from within the College. Saints also form social groups. In a Christian-flavored game, these groups certainly include the Holy Family, the Apostles, and the Disciples. In a Judeo-Christian game, it would likely include the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, and the Prophets. Almost all these folk are High Saints, and the rest are Great Saints. (The College can be given a more ecumenical flavor by including folk like Siddharta, Lao Tzu, Confucius, and other eastern sages, not to mention the greats of Islam.) One major grouping of Saints is the 144,000, described in Revelation as directly behind Christ as he charges into battle at the End. Armageddon will not come until all 144,000 have been collected from Earth. There are a couple of things the GM could do with this. The number could be nearly complete -- say, 143,993, with only seven to go. Is Armageddon going to happen the day the last of them arrives in Heaven? OR: We've had a complete set for some time now. (Pick a time. Since World War II, for instance, or since the Reformation, or since the Council of Nicea.) The more recent the completion, the more tension, as people wait to see if This Is It. Other features of the Saints that one can add to build a Saint-heavy campaign include: - Odor of Sanctity (a demon-repelling aura), posted 3/15/2000. - Nephashot (a class of Saint with regenerable vessels and a 3-day Trauma turnaround), posted 3/3/2000. - Stigmataphers (a class of Saint with healing powers), posted 3/3/2000. - Patron Saints (quasi-Word-bound Saints), posted 5/24/2000, by Jo Hart. DISSONANCE CONDITION None. But get enough of them (24+) mad at you all at once, and you'll get pinged. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS All choirs serving the College get an attunement that acts like the Mercurian choir resonnance (read social relationships), except for Mercurians, who get an attunement that acts like the Elohite choir resonnance (read emotions). SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Odor of Sanctity Roll against Will to endow yourself or another person with the Odor of Sanctity for CD hours. Demons must make a Will roll to come within two meters of such a person, and make another Will roll to touch them. All the Saints in the quorum granting this attunement must themselves have Odor of Sanctity. Healing Roll against Will to heal someone, just as with the Songs of Healing, but with no disturbance or Essence cost. The form of healing matches the realm the celestial is in at the time, thus only Corporeal healing is possible while on Earth. All the Saints in the quorum granting this attunement must themselves have Song of Healing, be Stigmataphers, or have similar healing powers. Dossier Roll against Perception to get a mental "dossier" on someone within sense shot. This includes names of the subject and immediate family, Ophanite-like directions to their home and place of work, a short list of their most pressing problems, and some other random but useful facts. DISTINCTIONS Vassal of the Saints Can recognize a Saint on sight, even if in an unfamiliar vessel or reincarnated and unawakened. Friend of the Saints Can summon any Saint they have met, not just their Director. As with any summoning of a Superior, a success means the Saint *wants* to come for some reason, not that they have been compelled, like a genie from a bottle. Master of the College Can summon a whole quorum of 24 Saints, consisting of Saints they have met. RELATIONS The College is fairly popular in the Seraphim Council. Allied: Novalis, Zadkiel, Yves, Christopher Associated: Michael, Laurence, Eli Hostile: Jordi RITES * Take part in a religious ceremony devoted to a Saint or Saints. * Light a candel (or incense stick, etc.) to a Saint and pray for an hour. CHANCE TO SUMMON: 4 SUMMONING MODIFIERS: +1: A calendar of saints +1: A medal for the Saint you are summoning +2: A hagiography (saintly biography) for the Saint you are summoning +1: A place of worship suitable for the Saint you are summoning +2: A place of worship dedicated to the Saint you are summoning +1: A non-place-of-worship dedicated to the Saint (e.g. "St. Joseph Hospital") +3: (!) A relic of the Saint you are summoning. ("Hey, that's my toe bone!") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:22:55 +1000 From: "Shane Curtis and family" Subject: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Ever wondered how many human souls Heaven and Hell have fought over during the course of history? The other day the "Odd Spot" column of the local newspaper gave (loosely) an estimated answer to the question: Fifty-six billion humans have died since there were humans around to die. While it leaves open the question of what is 'since there were humans'... *Fifty-six billion*. Even taking reincarnation into account, that's a lot of people. I wonder where they all are - Heaven, Hell, the Marches? Fixty-six billion human souls, and more accumulating every day. Oh my. Shane. "This stuff makes my brain hurt." "More?" "Yes please!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:25:29 -0400 From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... - -----Original Message----- From: Shane Curtis and family To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:24 AM Subject: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Ever wondered how many human souls Heaven and Hell have fought over during the course of history? Fixty-six billion human souls, and more accumulating every day. Oh my. I think that numbers wrong. I have heard that there are more people alive now than have ever lived. That number also seems wrong to me, but 56 billion seems too high. I would say that over 75% do not achieve their destiny or fate and so either dissolve into the symphony or are reincarnated. That said, by your number there are still over 10 billion in heaven or hell. Quite a lot. Speaks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:33:55 -0400 From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... - -----Original Message----- From: John J. Maurer, Esq. To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... >I would say that over 75% do not achieve their destiny or fate and so either >dissolve into the symphony or are reincarnated. That said, by your number >there are still over 10 billion in heaven or hell. Quite a lot. Actually I just realized my math is wrong. If 75% of the people at the beginning do not achieve their destiny or fate, many of them will be reincarnated 2-3 generations later and the number of actual souls will be MUCH MUCH smaller than the 56 billion number. Any math wizzes who can figure this out? Start at 10,000 humans for your initial group. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:02:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Word-binding (Re: Limits to Lucifer) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:20:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Word-binding (Re: Limits to Lucifer) >In our INCREDIBLY NON-CANON* stuff, (IOC, IOW**), >Kronos also has the ability (almost certainly) to >Word-bind. He just never does. Maybe he doesn't know >he can. Maybe he just lets everyone think Lucifer is >the only source of Words in Hell. >Maybe Fate has some Word-bound no one knows about... That could be useful, especially if you assume that Kronos' only real hobby is to play (read, "poke at with a stick") with the universe. Some fairly nasty experiments would result. Hmmm. This would suggest that _Yves_ could have the same ability. There could be whole legions of hidden Word-bound out there, fighting a little War all their own, with nobody outside of Fate/Destiny knowing anything about it... Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Kinda Quiet Around Here, Huh? ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> S3 Art While I'm thinking about it, does anybody know where I can get a print of the full page portrait of Yves that introduces his writeup in S3?* For fairly obvious reasons, he's my favorite**, and I think that the picture is hysterical, in an rather understated sort of way. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Sucking Up To The Boss *Nope, I don't want to just photocopy it: violations of copyright and all that. I'm willing to shell out cash money for it: I'll then have a legal right to frame it and put it on my wall. :) **Though She Who Is Not To Be Named #1 gives him a run for his money. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:08:22 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Ever wondered what would happen if there were only a fixed number of potential human souls that could _ever_ exist. What if the Well of Souls began to run dry? ... jo >From: "John J. Maurer, Esq." >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:25:29 -0400 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Shane Curtis and family >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Thursday, August 17, 2000 11:24 AM >Subject: IN> Billions and billions of souls... > > >Ever wondered how many human souls Heaven and Hell have fought over >during the course of history? > > >Fixty-six billion human souls, and more accumulating every day. Oh my. > >I think that numbers wrong. I have heard that there are more people alive >now than have ever lived. That number also seems wrong to me, but 56 >billion >seems too high. > >I would say that over 75% do not achieve their destiny or fate and so >either >dissolve into the symphony or are reincarnated. That said, by your number >there are still over 10 billion in heaven or hell. Quite a lot. > >Speaks > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:21:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... Jo Hart wrote: > Ever wondered what would happen if there were only a fixed number > of potential human souls that could _ever_ exist. What if the Well > of Souls began to run dry? I once saw this treated in a fantasy story (or science fiction, depending on your theology). All of a sudden, almost all babies being born were listless little things, with a sort of infantile catatonia or severe autism. In reality, as the hero figured out, nobody home. Speaks (I think) wrote: > >Fixty-six billion human souls, and more accumulating every day. > >Oh my. > I think that numbers wrong. I have heard that there are more > people alive now than have ever lived. That number also seems > wrong to me, but 56 billion seems too high. I have heard, more than once, that there are twelve dead for everyone alive. Of course, I've heard that for years, so let's say it was true back when the population was, oh, 4 billion. That would have been 48 billion + the 4 billion then + the 2 billion since then. 54 billion. Very close to 56 billion. I would suppose they got the figure by extrapolating backward on an exponential curve, until they reached way-the-hell-long-ago or a population of only a few thousand, at which point the extrapolation breaks down. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:53:02 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Billions and billions of souls... > Return-Path: speaks@mindspring.com > Ever wondered how many human souls Heaven and Hell have fought over > during the course of history? > Fixty-six billion human souls, and more accumulating every day. Oh my. > > I think that numbers wrong. I have heard that there are more people alive > now than have ever lived. That number also seems wrong to me, but 56 billion > seems too high. Thats a very popular and completely wrong misconception. More than 2/3rds that number has died in the past average lifespan (75 years), and there have been more than a billion people alive for over2 average lifespans. If you go back less than 2 centuries, you'll find more dead than currently living. > I would say that over 75% do not achieve their destiny or fate and so either > dissolve into the symphony or are reincarnated. That said, by your number > there are still over 10 billion in heaven or hell. Quite a lot. It was my impression that if you achieved BOTH your fate and destiny, you were reincarnated. But if you didn;t acheive either, there was a good chance you'd go the way you were leaning. Or to the marches, or a few other places, or possibly be disolved or reincarnetd, but most likely the way you were leaning. Am I wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:04:19 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Word-binding (Re: Limits to Lucifer) - --On Thursday, August 17, 2000 9:02 AM -0700 Maurice Lane wrote: > Hmmm. This would suggest that _Yves_ could have the > same ability. There could be whole legions of hidden > Word-bound out there, fighting a little War all their > own, with nobody outside of Fate/Destiny knowing > anything about it... > And we would call it "In Nomine". Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:46:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Domini Canes -- A Minor Dominican Choir Domini Canes -- The Lord's Dogs The Domini Canes are Dominic's attempt to combine the powers of the Malakim and the Cherubim. Like Malakim, they cannot fall. Like Cherubim, the have an attuned. In fact, each Dog is made for, and permanently attuned to, exactly one other celestial. Dominic offers to create a Dog for angels as a high mark of favor. He has never inflicted an unwanted Dog on anyone. That would be unjust to the Dog, if no one else, and would be generally bad politics and strategy. Most of the angels who get Dogs are his own, but he has created some for angels of other Archangels, and some Dog-owners have transferred from Dominic's service to that of other Archangels. The Dog invariably attunes to the same word as its master. Dominic creates a Dog by taking an Ethereal Force from the master-to-be (which he immediately replaces) and using it as the nucleus for the new celestial. Dogs never fledge from relievers. In celestial form, it looks like a wolf or wolf-like dog, with white, silver, or golden fur, and the black wings and aura of a Malakite. The Dog is always aware of the quickest route to its master, and of the master's state of well-being -- body, mind, and soul hits, essence level, and notes of discord or dissonance. The Dog's natural drive is to preserve the master's well-being, and *especially* to keep the master free of dissonance and discord. It is dissonant for a Dog to let a day pass without doing something to remove any dissonance or discord of its master -- even if it's just to nag or beg the master. In a healthy relationship, the Dog is usually willing enough to run errands for its master, but it is under no special force or obligation to do so, just because they are Dog and master. Usually, of course, the master is the dominant partner, and the Dog has a role like unto bodyguard, valet, or some other form of assistant. But the Dog is just as capable of development as any other angel, and if the master doesn't grow as fast, or gets badly damaged in the course of events, the Dog may become more like a nanny, nurse, therapist, or mentor to the reduced master. If, despite all the Dog could do, the master Falls, the Dog will follow them to Hell -- and there all its devotion turns to fury and it will do its best to soul-kill the master. If the master (fallen or not) is soul-killed, the Dog goes into Trauma by way of a great wave of agnoy and grief. Several years later, it emerges as an eight-force Reliever. Most such usually re-fledge as Malakim or Cherubim of Judgement. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1785 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.