From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Sep 4 02:34:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22771 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 02:34:46 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id CAA25875 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 02:32:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 02:32:54 -0500 Message-Id: <200009040732.CAA25875@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1804 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, September 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1804 In this digest: IN> Destiny and dying IN> Cathexis IN> Re: Cathexis Re: IN> Destiny and dying IN> Updated webpage (and you know, it's all new) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 13:17:20 +0930 From: Gnezda Subject: IN> Destiny and dying I don't see why you couldn't kill someone as soon as they achieved their Destiny; it'd all depend on what their destiny was. If it was to open up a drug rehab clinic or a suicide prevention line and help hundreds of people, then yeah it's impossible to define a set point when they achieve their Destiny and their destiny is a continuous thing. If their Destiny was to discover a cure for cancer, though, then the moment it was revealed in the medical profession you could quite easily kill them and they'd still affect just as many people. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 13:26:41 +0930 From: Gnezda Subject: IN> Cathexis Nah, Casca, all it means is you're a natural demon candidate. *duck* :) Actually, the idea of Cathexis would never occur to me either. Unlike Twila, I'm not a mother (I guess that whole 'being a male' thing kinda makes it difficult... :)), and I'm not even a father. But I am a massive eternal optimist, obsessed with rock and roll, Woodstock (despite not being born then...) and comedy and believing that everything will turn out for the better in the end... :) Although, the *really* weird thing is, despite all this, one of my favourite films is Event Horizon... I guess what was so great about that film (I did a big essay on it in Film Studies too :)) is that a lot of what went on in the ship was speculation. You saw terrible things being committed, but just knew that there were things *FAR* worse than that being done to the crew (and the earlier EH crew) but it was beyond the scope of human imagination, which is what I found most terrifying of all. This is very much how I imagine Hell; things done there are too far gone for our minds to grasp without driving us insane. Well, that's my take anyway. :) Milan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 11:19:44 BST From: "nick sands" Subject: IN> Re: Cathexis *big eveeeeeel grin* so cath boy thinks he's sqiuky huh.. well, sorry, but i think he is just a shameless copy from many, well a few, gwar songs. Gwar do the whole squicky icky thing a whole lot more more serious yet totally tongue in cheeck at the same time. That is where i think the real terror/horror and icky/squicky thing comes to its fullest. When the 'baddie' takes himself serious it seems to me to be a little lame. But when he knows what he is doing and they really dont care because they are having a great time having fun at other peoples expense, that to me is much more horrible. Nick Sands *insert some gwar lyrics here if you know any* _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 13:44:20 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Destiny and dying >I don't see why you couldn't kill someone as soon as they achieved their >Destiny; it'd all depend on what their destiny was. If it was to open up >a drug rehab clinic or a suicide prevention line and help hundreds of >people, then yeah it's impossible to define a set point when they >achieve their Destiny and their destiny is a continuous thing. If their >Destiny was to discover a cure for cancer, though, then the moment it >was revealed in the medical profession you could quite easily kill them >and they'd still affect just as many people. The original discussion was about Elohim killing a human as soon as he's achieved his Destiny. The reasoning behind this action is foggy to me; perhaps it's reasoning that "he can't do anything better than this, so there's nowhere to go but down" or perhaps it's "get 'em while they're hot," kill him so he can get to Heaven now. To me, both of these things are scarily reminiscent of the mindset of serial killers that "purify" their targets and then "send them to Heaven." G:IN quote: "Someone's destiny is the best and brightest thing he can accomplish in the Symphony. It's the thing that will, in the long run, have the most beneficial, selfless effects, brightening the lives of others, perhaps even beyond what a mere angel (or Archangel) can hope to achieve." If someone had just discovered a cure for cancer and sent his paper off to the medical journals, complete with studies and data, he can still affect more people positively. Maybe volunteering for Doctors Without Borders to see that his cure gets disseminated to those in needy environments is not so grand as discovering the cure in the first place, but it's still affecting others selflessly. I don't think a Servitor of Yves, using the Divine Destiny attunement, would get a reading of "Destiny already accomplished, Fate avoided entirely." They just get the best and worst single things, or major sets of things, that person can do from here on out. Say someone's been an utter saint their entire life. They've helped hundreds of people achieve something positive, and been a shining example of charity to the community. In facing down old age they break into rants about how they've been suffering and working their butt off for everyone their entire life and not had a d*mned thing to show for it and everybody on the planet is an ungrateful louse, and they turn a dozen bright-eyed optimistic social-work interns into broken-hearted cynics. Overall, though, he's strengthened the Symphony with his life. Same with a man facing down the death penalty a week from yesterday. Maybe nothing he can do will ever come close to repairing the damage he's done to the Symphony - the Chair sure won't - but he still would have a Destiny. He could do his level best in a local version of "Scared Straight," and push some punk's face into the restraints to show him what he faces if he doesn't shape up. The kid reforms and four gang deaths next year are avoided, including an innocent bystander. To sum up, my view of Destiny and Fate is not a single action that has positive or negative effects. It's like what Socrates(I think) called "actualizing your potential," or its reverse, maybe your "potential for harm." Your potential is the sum total of *everything* you can do that has positive effects, or otherwise. Under this view, an Elohim deciding whether to kill someone would have to weigh the person's entire predicted future and its various probable paths with whatever information was at hand, adjust in the light of his own Word and experience(for example, I imagine an Elohim of Judgment would give more weight to the possible damage the person could do others, and an Elohim of Dreams would give more weight to the person's hopes of reformation), and then decide whether it's best for the Symphony to try pushing this person toward his Destiny, or to cut off the possibility of his Fate. William who thinks he's sounding awfully pompous for someone that hasn't yet played a game of IN, but can *do* the whole philosophy bit. ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 00:43:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Updated webpage (and you know, it's all new) Finally got everything to gel. There's a new ethereal god (a loa, to be precise) and Minor Band (Asmodeus' Maragilim, for those of you keeping score at home) under servitors, a new location under seeds, and two versions of the same Superior, in serious and silly form (Serious version a collab between me and Laurent, silly version my own fault) under Superiors. address below, as usual. Also as usual, feel free to comment. I love feedback. I dream about it at night. Honest. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 8/7/00 (this is a guess) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1804 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.