From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 6 18:53:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06064; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:53:26 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA27468 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:51:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:51:28 -0500 Message-Id: <200009062351.SAA27468@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1809 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 6 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1809 In this digest: Re: IN> Contest Posted. Re: IN> Archangelic Serephim (was:Eli & Dominic) IN> Funny thought IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3ECONTEST:=A0_The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world.?= IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?IN=3E_CONTEST:=A0_The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world.?= Re: IN> Funny thought Re: IN> Funny thought Re: IN> So who plays? Re: IN> Squicking David? (Re: Cathexis) Re: IN> Contest Posted. Re: IN> Funny thought IN> Alternate rules Re: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement Re: IN> Funny thought Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> Funny thought Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> IN>_CONTEST: _The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world. Re: IN>_CONTEST: _The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world. IN> Relevent News Re: IN> Relevent News Re: IN>_CONTEST: _The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world. Re: IN> Contest Posted. Re: IN> Contest Posted. Re: IN> Relevent News Re: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Re: IN> Relevent News Re: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:29:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Contest Posted. At 2:16 PM -0700 9/5/00, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 6:41 PM -0700 8/31/00, Michael Walton wrote: >> >Mastinim "The Accusers" >> >> Hee hee hee. Very Asmodean. > > Domo arigato, Beth-sama. De nada. (To totally mix languages...) >> This duplicates the mainbook "musical instrument identity" of >> Lilim... [...] > I did think of that, but justified it on a technicality. Best kind of justification, when you've got Gamesters on the brain! > I quote >from the main book, "Lilim see themselves not as instruments, but as >players." A conductor, by contrast, is the one who tells the players >when to play. Demons who see themselves in that light probably don't >get along with Lilim very well. And Asmodeans in general probably don't get along with Free Lilim well anyway, so it's hardly a _new_ sort of problem. Point to you. O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:18:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Archangelic Serephim (was:Eli & Dominic) At 3:11 AM -0400 9/6/00, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >"No comment" is short for "I will not comment on that" or "I have no >comment I am willing to make on that". All the Seraph can do is evaluate >the truth of THAT STATEMENT... as such. > >CD >1 - The subject believes he is not willing to comment on that subject. >2 - Ditto >3 - The subject chose to tell the truth about his unwillingness to comment >because he feels you have no right to ask that question. Or, "because he feels you would react badly to another answer," or "because he wishes to annoy you" or "because he doesn't want to tell you." A Seraph might be able to get a _hint_ of the motives, but not, "because if you knew, you'd lock him up." [...] >Like mentioned in the APG, it's like saying "What a lovely day" when asked >a question... the Seraph can ONLY ping your statement, as made. They >cannot ping "The theoretical answer you might give if you were to give >them a straight answer to their question". Right. Even Dominic, at his Check Digit Insanely High*, isn't going to get much more than that -- especially from another Superior. Say he gets a chance to grab Eli and ask him, and Eli says, "I don't wish to comment at this time." The motives are: "To hide the truth, for _some_ reason that [Symphonic Truth here:] you can't get because the TRUTH is that he doesn't want to comment at this time." Mind, for even the hope of those scraps of motives that might crop up, God/theGM willing, Dominic probably -really- wants to ask Eli some questions personally. *Remember the Seraph Choir Attunement of Judgment. Adding CelForces to their Perception for resonance purposes. Even if you're using the idea that Superiors are 18-Force celestials with Something Else tacked on, that's still a CelForces 6, Perception 12 = +6 to the CD = minimum effective check digit of 7 (assuming +0 modifiers to resonance as on p. 57; if touching, CD goes to 9+). Not counting Essence. Gods, but I love Seraphim of Judgment. They're so munchkin. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:12:52 -0400 From: "Charles phipps" Subject: IN> Funny thought What would Heaven do if a Hellsworn servitor of say, Lilith ended up in Heaven? Let's say Bob has a girlfriend who happens to be a demonness who has the Word of Upsurping Dictators and Bob does the proverbial "In blood" thing selling his soul so he can fight Evil (look at poor Mulgrew in Night Music). What happens if he saves a kid's life (his destiny) and is shot by border gaurds without completing his fate (to become a mindless servant of Hell). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:13:48 -0400 From: "Charles phipps" Subject: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3ECONTEST:=A0_The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world.?= Consider the Little Old Lady entered :-) And soon my "aliens" version of a Imp. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: 6 Sep 2000 16:34:05 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:18:45 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >*Remember the Seraph Choir Attunement of Judgment. Adding CelForces to >their Perception for resonance purposes. Even if you're using the idea having just created one a few days ago, i quite remember. very fond of that Attunement, yes indeedy. >that Superiors are 18-Force celestials with Something Else tacked on, >that's still a CelForces 6, Perception 12 = +6 to the CD = minimum >effective check digit of 7 (assuming +0 modifiers to resonance as on >p. 57; if touching, CD goes to 9+). Not counting Essence. taking the target number over twelve automatically carries over into bonuses to the check digit?!? wow ... hey, i didn't find that.... i see the part about +2 to CD for touching, but nothing about difficulties over 12 splashing over to affect the check digit. >Gods, but I love Seraphim of Judgment. They're so munchkin. who cares, if you're having a good time and not hurting anyone? :) Seraphim of Judgment with the Destiny and Lightning Seraphim Attunements can be fun, too--or at least, i'm hoping this one will be. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:32:46 -0400 From: "Charles phipps" Subject: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?IN=3E_CONTEST:=A0_The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world.?= ***WARNING**** High Violence and Maternal Horror Pussius Renegade Shedim (Former) Servant of Saminga Cor-5 Str-12 Agil-8 Eth-2 Int-4 Pre-4 Cel-2 Will-4 Per-4 Pussius has a very unique M.O. that makes him so disgustingly loathesome to Christopher that he has a substantial bounty on his head in Heaven to any renegade or angel who takes him out. Asmodeus is after the little creep because of his blowing the cover of Hell so bloody wide open with his "acts of love". Saminga isn't aware his servant is renegade and finds frankly what he does "kewl". Pussius is a Shedim who is currently working towards the word of the Unborn. Believing that fetal children are the most innocent beings on the world he has preyed on them for close to two thousand years since the times of the Romans always seeking some new way to prey on them be it drugs, surgery, or other methodologies that are painful. Of course it was never pleasant for the mother but in his guises as the murderous midwife, doctor, and herbalist he never had a slow supply of those who either cared or cared not for those inside them. Along the way Pussius like so many demons in the universe who become devoted to a concept without achieving it's word, he snapped. Frankly snapped Shedim are not exactly the most etiquette bound beings in the world anyways. It started simple enough with him developing an urge to take into him the essence of what he destroyed so he began to devour his victems's remains, then it eventually moved to possesing the unborn as they were slowly destroyed by his drugs, it finally moved to where it currently stands. Pussius travels now finding unborn children and with the power of a shedim moves into their bodies and rips from their womb to slaughter the mother, family, and passers by around him. Their trusting little wills are so weak he's wondering why the Hell hasn't anyone thought of this before. Asmodeus has an answer.... **** - -Charles Phipps Maybe we should do a "morally ambigious" angel set ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:44:08 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Funny thought > What would Heaven do if a Hellsworn servitor of say, Lilith ended up in > Heaven? Let's say Bob has a girlfriend who happens to be a demonness who has > the Word of Upsurping Dictators and Bob does the proverbial "In blood" thing > selling his soul so he can fight Evil (look at poor Mulgrew in Night Music). > What happens if he saves a kid's life (his destiny) and is shot by border > gaurds without completing his fate (to become a mindless servant of Hell). Hellsworns go to Hell when they die. If they somehow acheive their destiny, they merely cease to exist when they die. It's the best they can hope for. GM fiat *could* let the Hellsworn reincarnate instead. > -Charlemagne Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:47:27 GMT From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Funny thought >From: "Charles phipps" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> Funny thought >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:12:52 -0400 >What would Heaven do if a Hellsworn servitor of say, Lilith ended up in >Heaven? Let's say Bob has a girlfriend who happens to be a demonness who >has the Word of Upsurping Dictators and Bob does the proverbial "In blood" >thing selling his soul so he can fight Evil (look at poor Mulgrew in Night >Music). >What happens if he saves a kid's life (his destiny) and is shot by border >gaurds without completing his fate (to become a mindless servant of Hell). IIRC, once you are actually Hellsworn... that is to say, you sign the contract and accept your Infernal Force, then you are -- barring sincere repentance, a life spent attempting to be really virtuous, and a last-minute save by the Angels of Final Judgement at the very gates of Hell -- one doomed puppy. Hellsworn give Hell an advance option on their souls, and automatically achieve their Fate right then and there. Even achieving their destiny (usually) won't save them. Of course, any ex-Hellsworn who *does* manage the redemption process outlined in CPG for ex-Hellsworn who really don't wanna go to Hell after all probably receive the same reception in Heaven that anyone else does... or maybe even a slightly better reception, to acknowledge the extra effort he put into getting there. It's Heaven. If you can make it in at all, then (barring Kronos' little tricks) you are presumed to belong there, and nobody holds a grudge for what might have used to be. IMO. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:50:44 -0400 From: Big Cheeze Subject: Re: IN> So who plays? On Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:17:39 -0400 (EDT), Thomas J Howell wrote: >So my question becomes - who on this list plays in a currently >running, face-to-face In Nomine campaign that meets at least >once a month (and preferably 2+ times)? I'm quite curious to >know. I'm also curious to see player/GM ratios. Well, if you include games using In Nomine for source material only* - I GM every sunday for about 5-6 hours with 3-5 players: Cherub of Stone, Malakite of Trade, Seraph of the Sword, Cherub of Wind (when here at school), Mercurian of Wind (pilot, plays when here). *rules gutted for a system better suited to how I want my IN adventures to flow - -Garrett Taylor Macintosh Specialist / Perl Pounder / Web Wrangler / CGI Stooge Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University Daytona Beach, FL USA Information Technology - Internet Services - Administrative "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - --Rich Cook ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:07:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Squicking David? (Re: Cathexis) At 7:45 AM -0700 9/6/00, There's no gravity, the world just sucks. wrote: [...] >(... The shambling mound of bad fiction slowly dragged its victim >away down the narrow alley between shelves, muffling the hapless >browser with a copy of 'Houseplants of Gor'. It would feed well on >wasted time tonight...) Clearly a Word-power given to the Shedite Demon of Gor. (Once a Servitor of Death, it asked for the Word of Gore; one typo and a transfer to Dark Humor later...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:07:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Contest Posted. At 11:33 PM +1200 9/6/00, Keith Bolland wrote: Oooo, more neat Gamesters. I like the CD table. One question: >Keeper of the War, Keeper of Fate, Keeper of the Abyss Abyss? URL ref? Or did I just not catch it going by on the list? - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 09:54:16 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Funny thought I am not sure if it applies to Hellsworn in general, but it has been noted that Sorcerers of the infernal sort who sincerely repent and work selflessly and all that sort of thing can be saved. If no Archangel purifies their soul of the infernal bits before they die, they go to Hell but are among the lucky few saved by the angels of Final Judgement at the gates. Sean _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:53:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Alternate rules Big Cheeze wrote: > *rules gutted for a system better suited to how I want my IN > adventures to flow I'm curious; what did you do to the rules? Use another publsihed system? Makes lots of changes to IN's system? Use your own system? What's it like? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:44:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement At 4:34 PM +0000 9/6/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:18:45 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: nance as on >>p. 57; if touching, CD goes to 9+). Not counting Essence. > taking the target number over twelve automatically carries >over into bonuses to the check digit?!? p. 39, Automatic Success. >>Gods, but I love Seraphim of Judgment. They're so munchkin. > who cares, if you're having a good time and not hurting anyone? :) Seraphim of Judgment with the Destiny and Lightning Seraphim Attunements can be fun, too--or at least, i'm hoping this one will be. Eeee! What insane GM is letting you get all those? Only thing that keeps Judgment Seraphim in check is that they're sll poker-spined and kind of specialized... (IMO, o'course.) O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:55:20 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Funny thought At 4:47 PM +0000 9/6/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >IIRC, once you are actually Hellsworn... that is to say, you sign >the contract and accept your Infernal Force, then you are -- barring >sincere repentance, a life spent attempting to be really virtuous, >and a last-minute save by the Angels of Final Judgement at the very >gates of Hell -- one doomed puppy. Nuh-uh. You can sign that form and believe you're damned, and be convinced and pushed towards Fate by your "benefactors," but as the Vignette in the CPG shows (and the CPG itself says, p. 9, that no attunement, contract or ritual can seal a human's Fate), it's always a question of Free Will. In the end, if you achieve your Destiny but not your Fate, you go to Heaven even if you've Hellsworn. And if you achieve *both,* you're not likely to go to Hell even if you're Hellsworn. Instead, you're likely to reincarnate or disband as normal. Now, some contracts (I'm thinking Mammon here) can designate where a damned soul ends *up* in Hell, but that's only if they actually go to Hell in the first place. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:38:59 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Here's mine (random inspiration strikes again). It's long and pretty much un-proofread, so be warned. Sepatim The Smiths The Sepatim are a Heavenly choir that have traditionally served the General of the Armies of Heaven. They were originally created by Michael shortly after Lilith freed Lucifer from Hell, to reeducate the first few redeemers. This is a task they still perform, although their duties have also grown to include grooming Angels who have been assigned especially important missions. Since their resonance only operates properly on the Celestial plane, Sepatim are almost never assigned to earth (most don't even have any Corporeal forces). Sepatim have to be created; Relievers never fledge into them. Currently, Laurence and Michael are able to create them (although Michael rarely does these days, and has only kept the few who acquired a Word in his service) although Uriel presumably could as well, were he still around. Since they are a heavenly choir, Sepatim almost never die, and no Sepatite has ever fallen. Thus, most are quite old (the first three Sepatim are still alive, two of whom serve Michael) and few need to be created (Laurence has made only three or four in the last century, and not more than couple dozen during his stint as General) "Smiths" is a title only applied to the Sepatim since Laurence became General. RESONANCE The Sepatite resonance is for strength. By spending a few minutes studying a subject, a Smith can determine their strengths, weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and how said weaknesses and vulnerabilities can be overcome. This resonance can only be used on beings in Celestial Form (it can't penetrate a vessel). When used on newly redeemed Demons, Sepatim often detect lingering bad habits and misconceptions as to what Angels do. It is generally a fairly simple matter to eliminate these in any Demon who has survived the process of being redeemed (especially by Laurence, although Sepatim are often lent out to other Superiors, although they rarely transfer permanently). DISSONANCE It is dissonant for a Smith to encourage, let alone cause, weakness in one of their students. This means they can never act on the vulnerabilities they detect, not can they reveal these weaknesses to anyone other than the Archangel they serve. MANNER AND APPEARENCE Smiths live through their pupils. Although they have individual personalities, these are often overwhelmed by their resonance as they dive into another being's life (an experience which is apparently very intense). As such, Sepatites who are off duty are often listless and edgy, whereas when they are much more energetic when they have a pupil (the similarity to a drug addict is not lost on many angels...) In Celestial Form, Smiths appear as metal spheres who emit a soft glow. They have more in common with people who make instruments than with instruments themselves. You can't get Coke in Heaven, so no one knows how a Sepatite would go about it. GAME MECHANICS The Smith makes a perception roll (modified by the target's celestial forces) with a higher check digit revealing more information (a check digit of six or higher will give the Sepatite an overview of the subject's history as well, highlighting formative moments). The Smith will also know a number of things that the subject could do to overcome their weaknesses (these tasks can be almost anything, and are often fairly dangerous). The Smith also knows how to best teach the subject, and can teach any non-knowledge skill up to the Sepatite's level in the skill + 2 (to a maximum of 6, of course) and knowledge skills up to the Sepatite's level in the knowledge (this includes things like Area knowledges and Role "how to be a" knowledges). This generally takes about a seven days less the subjects forces in the area of instruction per skill raised (although some skills might be quicker or slower). Sepatites are often Songmasters as well, although they gain no particular bonuses. ATTUNEMENTS A Smith requires the attunement of a subject's superior to use its resonance on the subject (for instance, to teach an Angel of Gabriel, the Sepatite needs the Sepatite of Gabriel attunement). Sepatite attunements rarely do anything else, with the following exceptions (although clever GMs could certainly think up more if they were so inclined): Yves Sepatim of Destiny know the target of their resonance's Fate and Destiny. More details at higher CDs. Dominic Sepatim with the Sepatite of Judgement attunement know what would be neccessary to cause the subject to fall (even if this normally wouldn't qualify as a weakness). It is dissonant, of course, to act on this. Uriel Sepatim of Purity could purge the subject of their resonances of Diabolic rites (although the process was, by all accounts, extremely painful). Only Sepatim actually created by Uriel cannot fall, although most Smiths who predate Laurence have this attunement. Michael Subjects of a Sepatim of War could with time gradually become innured to Trauma. The process required violent deaths of all kinds, and generally took many years (especially since each death had to be meaningful), but could eventually lead to Malakite-esque immunity to trauma. Laurence Laurence's Smiths are especially skilled teachers, and can cut the time it takes to learn a skill in half. Most students of a Sepatite of Laurence come out of their training very adept with swords. Cheers, -Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:53:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. A reasonably Heaven-only choir. But don't they need to have at least one Corporeal force just to be a sentient being? I think the main book says so. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:06:09 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > A reasonably Heaven-only choir. But don't they need to have > at least one Corporeal force just to be a sentient being? > I think the main book says so. I'm pretty sure this isn't the case, but I could very well be wrong... (My impression was that one needs both Ethereal and Celestial forces to fit a human definition of sentient, although there are beings with just Celestial Forces but that a being without corporeal forces merely cannot manifest on Earth) Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:39:01 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Funny thought - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 12:55 PM Subject: Re: IN> Funny thought > At 4:47 PM +0000 9/6/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >IIRC, once you are actually Hellsworn... that is to say, you sign > >the contract and accept your Infernal Force, then you are -- barring > >sincere repentance, a life spent attempting to be really virtuous, > >and a last-minute save by the Angels of Final Judgement at the very > >gates of Hell -- one doomed puppy. > > Nuh-uh. > > You can sign that form and believe you're damned, and be convinced > and pushed towards Fate by your "benefactors," but as the Vignette in > the CPG shows (and the CPG itself says, p. 9, that no attunement, > contract or ritual can seal a human's Fate), it's always a question > of Free Will. [quote] ========== "Anyone who accepts infernal power -- whether it is making an infernal pact to become a sorceror (p. 70), receiving an infernal Force during an initiation (p. 60), or accepting a Rite or attunement from a Demon Prince -- becomes Hellsworn. Hellsworn mortals have trumped desitny and fate by giving Hell a lease on their souls. They're damned. Almost. It's possible for Hellsworn to escape damnation, but very difficult. First, of course, the Hellsworn has to *want* to redeem. This is not as simple as simply deciding he no longer wants to work for Hell. Once you've sold your soul, only true, sincere redemption -- choosing a life of selflessness rather than selfishness -- will give you a shot at escaping Hell... and only achieving your destiny will actually get you into Heaven. Most saved Hellsworn manage a chance at reincarnation at best, and some only succeed in disbanding upon death. [...] On occasion, a Hellsworn soul has truly repented of his sins, devoted himself to a life of selfless redemption, and sometimes even achieved his destiny... but died still possessing infernal Forces or attunements, never having gone through the formal process of salvation with an Archangel. These souls go to Hell... but they're among the rare, lucky few who get picked out at the entrance to Hades by Daniel and Hutriel, the Angels of Final Judgement (Heaven and Hell, p. 94). *Nothing* causes more resentment and gnashing of teeth among the demons who herd the damned than the sight of a Hellsworn soul escaping his fate at the very gates of Hell." ========== [blockquote] From "Hellsworn -- Damnation and Salvation", on p. 61 of the CPG. You will note that this passage from the rulebook is the same thing I originally said above... which is why I said it in the first place. So, in essence, we are both right.. as opposed to only your being right. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:21:47 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. In a message dated 9/6/00 1:55:45 PM Central Daylight Time, earlw@mc.com writes: << A reasonably Heaven-only choir. But don't they need to have at least one Corporeal force just to be a sentient being? I think the main book says so. >> I don't think so. I being that loses all his Corporeal Forces in combat simply can't manefest on the corporeal plane. There are also some demonlings listed in the books that only have 1 or 2 Forces total. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:14:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. - --- Ryan Elias wrote: > Sepatim > The Smiths This is the first post of a Heavenly Choir that I've seen. Thumbs up to you bringing something new to the list (new to me, at least };>). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:17:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. > But don't they need to have > > at least one Corporeal force just to be a sentient being? > > I think the main book says so. > (My impression was that one needs both Ethereal and Celestial forces > to > fit a human definition of sentient, although there are beings with > just > Celestial Forces but that a being without corporeal forces merely > cannot > manifest on Earth) All that's required for sentience is a certain number of Ethereal Forces. If you wanted something that humans could recognize as sentience, Corporeal Forces are also necessary. Note, however, that there are a number of Ethereals who lack Corporeal Forces and yet are VERY intelligent beings. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:32:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN>_CONTEST: _The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world. - --- Charles phipps wrote: > Pussius > Renegade Shedim > (Former) Servant of Saminga Okaaaaay... "In Nomine" meets "Dr. Giggles" meets "Alien." Ick. I'd say you've succeeded brilliantly here. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If all the world's a stage, where does the audience sit?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:02:59 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Enanidah=20Kallai?= Subject: Re: IN>_CONTEST: _The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world. Janet, Free Lilim Aiming for the Word Of Children She likes children, she always has - they are the most perfectly Selfish creatures until human education spoils them - so she aims to find them before Christopher's teachers can teach them all about sharing and caring. Lilim are also always regarded as Children of Lilith so she feels she has a special bond to mortal children - - that other claiments for the Word cannot match. She's freelanced for just about everyone in Hell over the years, working hard to earn their support, trying to support their Word in a way that involves Children. For some Words she had to kind of stretch, but mostly it worked out OK - she gets on well with Andre and Kronos and has their support in her application. She also made sure to maintain her relationship with Lilith - mortal Children may not always get on well with their societally influenced Mother - but for a Lilim - she knows her Mother understands. She's noticed a lack of children's souls in Hell - some in the Principality of Fate and some others here and there - but too many go to Heaven - she aims to fix this - and is therefore also getting along quite well with some Servitors of Saminga - which will soon be coming to the attention of Saminga himself and pleasing him greatly - it's not often a Lilim supports his Word so actively. She works on Earth mainly for obvious reasons - taking roles as Children for the inside edge - or adult supervisors depending - usually walking the tight rope of two roles in the same area. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:26:47 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Relevent News http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/09/05/pope.faith.reut/index.html Story about the Pope approving a theological document affirming that Catholism is #1 and everyone else has got it partially wrong. Just wanted to bring Laurences/Dominics newest manouver to everyone's attention. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:52:40 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Relevent News Tim Groth wrote: > Story about the Pope approving a theological document affirming that > Catholism is #1 and everyone else has got it partially wrong. This is new? > Just wanted > to bring Laurences/Dominics newest manouver to everyone's attention. No, it's the RCC's latest maneuver. I wouldn't attribute this to Laurence and Dominic, unless you like the idea of the RCC being a puppet, rather than free agents. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:59:10 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN>_CONTEST: _The_most_horrifying_demon_in_the_world. From: "Enanidah Kallai" > Janet, Free Lilim > Aiming for the Word Of Children This one was particularly good, especially because it left the reader to imagine exactly how far she either had gone, or would go, to support the various superiors' Words in relation to children. And now if you will excuse me, I have to go be very noisily sick. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:01:11 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Contest Posted. On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Oooo, more neat Gamesters. I like the CD table. > One question: > >Keeper of the War, Keeper of Fate, Keeper of the Abyss > Abyss? URL ref? Or did I just not catch it going by on the list? Oh. Oops! This is why I shouldn't have finished them at midnight. The DP of the Abyss is a hangover from the campaign I'm developing, based around some of the more interesting sequences in Revelations (the biblical book, not the Cycle). Mea culpa. I'll post him if I ever get around to giving him a full writeup. //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- // "Life isn't fair. But the root password helps." -- The BOFH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:03:58 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Contest Posted. On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, I wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Oooo, more neat Gamesters. I like the CD table. Nor should I be answering email just after I wake up! I MEANT to say, "Thanks. Glad you like 'em." //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- // "Life isn't fair. But the root password helps." -- The BOFH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:04:32 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Relevent News Tim Groth wrote: > > Just wanted > to bring Laurences/Dominics newest manouver to everyone's attention. I would chalk it up to Malphas, personally. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Sep 2000 23:20:13 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:44:53 -0400 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 4:34 PM +0000 9/6/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:18:45 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >nance as on >>>p. 57; if touching, CD goes to 9+). Not counting Essence. >> taking the target number over twelve automatically carries >>over into bonuses to the check digit?!? >p. 39, Automatic Success. ahh, much comfort. neato, too. man... odd that the original author didn't even reference the In Nomine style-guide.... ;) >>>Gods, but I love Seraphim of Judgment. They're so munchkin. >> who cares, if you're having a good time and not hurting anyone? :) >>Seraphim of Judgment with the Destiny and Lightning Seraphim Attunements can >>be fun, too--or at least, i'm hoping this one will be. >Eeee! What insane GM is letting you get all those? Only thing that keeps i need a GM to let me create a character? that's news. true, GMs are essential in approving character concepts and stats, but this one was drawn up while i was bored the other day. he's also got the Seraph of Flowers Attunement, but i'm tweaking a few characters at the moment to the point where i think that won't stick around. shame. i like that Attunement. regretably, justification for it vacilates. >Judgment Seraphim in check is that they're sll poker-spined and kind of >specialized... (IMO, o'course.) O:> specialized i grant you, but poker-spined very much depends on the age and experience of the Seraph in question. i prefer making experienced, older Celestials, though i've a few characters who are still wet behind the ears (like my Cherub of War on his first Earth-assignment in a tabby Vessal...). reading up on Dominic in Superiors 1, i'm definitely making this Seraph a member of the Merciful faction. -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:41:38 -0700 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. - -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Elias To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:38 AM Subject: Re: IN> Contest IV: Laurence. >Here's mine (random inspiration strikes again). It's long and pretty >much un-proofread, so be warned. > >Sepatim >The Smiths Great Heavenly Choir, Ryan! The Smiths sound like great drill-seargents for Heaven. I keep getting the image of a Smith of Michael yelling like Major Payne at the newly fledged or redeemed angel, before forcing them into a gruling obstacle course. "All Right, you Celestial Fairies, I don't GIVE A DAMN if you all fledged into big, bad Malakites... Until you passed through MY training, you wet-nosed trouts aren't fit to wipe Haagenti's Arse while passing through it!" *Floats over to one Malakite, overing right in front of it's face* "SOMETHING FUNNY, LEATHERBOY? MAYBE YOU'D LIKE GOING IN FIRST? Nothing too fancy for starters, mind you... Just the Lightening's latest Battle Simulator that needs to be tested... They want to make sure the Dragon simulation program is tough enough... And you all get to be the first to try it out... AREN'T YOU ALL LUCKY!? SAY "THANK YOU, SIR!" FOR THIS OCCASION, YA LILLIES!!" ...Ok, I better stop this, before I turn those Smiths into Demons... ^^ Still, I am SO using the Smiths... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: 6 Sep 2000 23:42:40 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Relevent News On Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:52:40 -0500 David Edelstein wrote: >Tim Groth wrote: >> Story about the Pope approving a theological document affirming that >> Catholism is #1 and everyone else has got it partially wrong. >This is new? > >> Just wanted to bring Laurences/Dominics newest manouver to >> everyone's attention. >No, it's the RCC's latest maneuver. I wouldn't attribute this to >Laurence and Dominic, unless you like the idea of the RCC being a >puppet, rather than free agents. i wouldn't call the Roman Catholic Church a puppet of any Celestial agent, but allowing the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith to be influenced by Dominicans and Laurencians, it being the modern incarnation of the Inquisition, has an ironic appeal. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:05:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> re: Seraphim of Judgement At 11:20 PM +0000 9/6/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: [...] >>p. 39, Automatic Success. > ahh, much comfort. neato, too. man... odd that the >original author didn't even reference the In Nomine style-guide.... ;) There _wasn't_ a styleguide for the main book. I mostly codified the *&^(*^()&^ different capitalizations, picking the most logical and/or the ones that looked the best, when given fifteen different versions. >>>Seraphim of Judgment with the Destiny and Lightning Seraphim Attunements can >>>be fun, too--or at least, i'm hoping this one will be. >>Eeee! What insane GM is letting you get all those? Only thing that keeps > i need a GM to let me create a character? that's news. Well, if you're going to _play_ one, the GM needs to be involved with what the character can do -- especially cross-Superior attunements. I mean, if you're just having fun _making_ the character, without actually intending to play it, you can do that on your own. (But saying you're hoping one will be fun sounded like you were gonna play it! ) >>Judgment Seraphim in check is that they're sll poker-spined and kind of >>specialized... (IMO, o'course.) O:> > specialized i grant you, but poker-spined very much depends on the age >and experience of the Seraph in question. Age, maybe -- experience, definitely. I'm sure that there are old Seraphim of Judgment who are so rigidly-spined that you could hand them to the Angel of Hitting People With Big Sticks as a substitute weapon... They've just always seen circumstances that agreed with their biases, and continued to be Righteous. >i prefer making experienced, older >Celestials, though i've a few characters who are still wet behind the ears >(like my Cherub of War on his first Earth-assignment in a tabby Vessal...). >reading up on Dominic in Superiors 1, i'm definitely making this Seraph a >member of the Merciful faction. They're easier to get along with, yeah. Though sometime I might be amused by playing someone like Zadoc. Probably as a oneshot... >Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. > --Clayton A. Oliver I like this. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1809 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.