From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Sep 8 21:52:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24737 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:52:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA10944 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:50:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:50:28 -0500 Message-Id: <200009090250.VAA10944@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1812 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, September 8 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1812 In this digest: IN> The Most Horrofying Demon in the World Re: IN> Relevent News Re: IN> (with Smashing Hulks) Re: IN> Contest-Most Horrifying Demon in the World Re: IN> Contest-Most Horrifying Demon in the World Re: IN> Contest-Most Horriying Demon in the World Re: IN> The Most Horrifying Demon competition IN> Amusing question IN> Altruism IN> Urim (A sub-Band of Lilim...) Re: IN> Amusing question Re: IN> Amusing question Re: IN> Alternate rules Re: IN> Urim (A sub-Band of Lilim...) Re: IN> Contest-Most Horrifying Demon in the World Re: IN> Amusing question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:31:23 -0400 From: "Charles phipps" Subject: IN> The Most Horrofying Demon in the World *If this doesn't squick David, nothing will* Fufur Balseraph of Hardcore Captain of the Mosh Pit Knight of Influence The Demon of Sweet Cor- 3 Str- 6 Agi- 6 Eth- 4 Int-6 Pre-10 Cel- 3 Will- 8 Per- 4 Vessel: Human 2/ Pikachu 4/ Santa's Elf 3/ Kitten 1/ Role: Marketing Advisor "Brad Wilkens" 5/ (Charisma +3) Skills: Emote 3/, Lying 6/, Marketing 7/, Painting 4/ (Inoffensive), Savoir Faire 5/ Songs: Song of Charm (Ethereal 8/, Celestial 3/), Song of Dreams (Corporeal 4/), Song of Harmony (Corporeal 3/), Song of Thunder 6/ Attunements: Balseraph of Hardcore, Balseraph of the Media, Humanity, Overdrive, Subliminal, Soundtrack, Knight of the Media, Ever wonder whose the @*@(@( who made Pokemon so addictive? Ever wonder why Tickle Me Elmos were suddenly something parents were willing to kill for? Ever wonder what kind of twisted Satanic @&@(@(* created those lovable fluff jingles that you can't get out of your head and makes you want to break things? That would be Fufur. Not the Demon Prince mind you (it's like Tom down here in Hell) but one of his few word bound servitors. If you are not convinced of Fufur the Demon of Cute's danger to the Symphony I'm going to say just two words to you; Beanie Babies. Orginally a servitor of the Media Fufur realized early on that the best way to get humanity to come to Hell was to make it completely free of inoffensive material, if there was no evil there couldn't be any good and then everyone could just focus on being happy. In other words Fufur was a typical servitor of the Media. His acomplishments in the eighties after achieving his word (he wrote a jingle for Walt Disney about world unity some time before) were considerable including flooding the airwaves with meaningless but pretty cartoons that had many a commercial tie in. There is a legend in Hell that when Fufur was being interviewed for his word, he showed the cartoon he'd prepared for Earth called "The Snuggly Bunnies of Rainbow Land". Upon seeing it Lucifer vomited and gave him the word of Sweet as requested. When THE Fufur ascended to Princedom, Fufur the servitor of the Media requested a transfer. Nybbas was rather shocked but the Demon of Sweet replied that he noticed a strange trend among a number of humans to hate his "Tubby Bears" and other creations and decided the best way to get them taken care of would be to drive them to violence (and thus get them locked away). He's been remarkably sucessful in promoting his word even if Fufur debates whether or not to kill him himself. Currently Fufur the Balseraph has a unshakable place in the marketing business where he has made a culture for strong opinions in the realm of Children or Mass market extremely difficult to get through. Fufur currently is turning his attention to one of the areas Fufur's servitors have been hard at work in in Roleplaying games. He and his associates are quick to make sure that "demons" should never go into roleplaying games (it was fairly easy in the 80s to take care of the bludgening movement of imagination with some of his "advice"), the "less mainstream" RPGs should become too violent/sexy/controversial to be bought...and thus eventually "cleaned up" under pressure or shut down. One of the reasons he's voting for the husband of one of his old college friends. Pokemon: the First RPG...hmmmm.....maybe he could transfer some of the more talented writers to it... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:09:23 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Relevent News Regarding the original topic... The LA Times ran this front page with the headline "Vatican Declares Catholic Church Only Path To Salvation" (I believe that was the wording.) This led to me bringing it home, circling the headline (just above the fold on page one!) and offering it to someone saying "Look, a 2000 year old newspaper!" (I do understand all the politics behind it...and let me take this time to plug White Smoke, a modern era novel about the selection of the next pope. Kind of corny in places, but a wonderful topic. It's not about religion, it is about politics.) Sean _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:14:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> (with Smashing Hulks) At 5:24 PM -0700 9/7/00, Maurice Lane wrote: [...] >"You try stop pretty Lady from getting Pretty Wings. >Hulk Smash."** > >**I'm wondering if I should do all the permutations... On the one hand, are funny. On the other hand, keep hurting myself tryihng not to laugh and wake baby... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:18:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Contest-Most Horrifying Demon in the World At 7:51 PM -0600 9/7/00, Tim Groth wrote: >Which reminds me of a canon question, can a Superior strip Word forces from >a Servitor? Though I've got a nasty headache at the moment, I don't see why not. They can, IIRC, be lost in celestial combat, after all, no? - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Contest-Most Horrifying Demon in the World - --- Tim Groth wrote: > >Omburo > >Calabite of Factions > >Demon of Apathy > > Damnit, I was going to do that (except with Media a the Superior). I > liked > it, the only problem I have with it is that I hate Malphas (and you > demonstrated why very well). In this context, I'll consider that a compliment. o:> > Also his weakness must be an artificial imposition, because the Word > of > Apathy is very strong (and thus lots of Word Forces or equivellent). I never meant to imply that Omburo is weak... only that he is weak relative to other demons with similarly powerful Words. His disadvantage lies in his lack of Attunements and Distinctions -- but he has ways around that lack of tools (see his list of Songs and note the ratings). > Which reminds me of a canon question, can a Superior strip Word > forces from a Servitor? Nope. Only God, Lucifer and the Seraphim Council can do that. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:35:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Contest-Most Horriying Demon in the World - --- David Edelstein wrote: > Trying to squick David, the Archangel of Stone, would be rather > pointless. He has been an Archangel since before the Fall, and he has > seen every abomination Hell is capable of. [snip] Since then, he > probably regards all demons with more or less equal disgust, and the > latest innovation in diabolical > excess is unlikely to move him more than the past 20,000 years of > diabolical excesses. Yikes! When you put it that way, all my evil GM-ing seems woefully inadequate. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:43:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Most Horrifying Demon competition - --- Gnezda wrote: > I agree. It doesn't have to be sex-based to be horrifying. You can > have > a *truly* terrifying and utterly evil entity without it being > sex-based. > Such as the Demon of 'Getting Olivia Newton-John songs stuck in your > head'. Now that is truly evil. [shudder] You didn't have to go there... };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 8 Sep 2000 15:58:43 -0700 From: Casca Subject: IN> Amusing question In my campaign, Eli has decided to create modern-day Muses, in order to better understand Nybbas and then fight him on his own ground. There will be 7 of them, one of each choir, each with a Word related to the little-m media or entertainment. Let us assume, for the sake of discussion, that Eli has the ability to bestow these Words himself, thereby not needing the Seraphim Council's approval. Let us further assume that these Words are not already held by angels. What would these Words be, and which choir would have each Word? The Word of Music is already taken by Israfel, a Seraph (Liber Canticorum). She would be the de facto leader of the muses, by virtue of being the eldest. The Word of Television has just been granted to a newly created Elohite named Carmel. That leaves 5 Words and choirs remaining. I have some ideas, but they're not set in stone, and I'd like feedback on them before I do it in-game. My ideas are: Movies (and theater)-- Ofanite Print Media (Newspapers, Magazines, etc)-- Malakite Cartoons (Political, Saturday Morning, and Anime) -- Mercurian Radio -- Kyriotate Internet -- Cherub Suggestions? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:03:22 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Altruism > As for Terkare's Word, might I suggest Altruism? > >===== >Michael Walton, #9805-068 >"If all the world's a stage, >where does the audience sit?" As a matter of fact, this leads straight into an Elohite that's been bouncing around my head for a while, whom I will now happily release. Ithiel Elohite of Lightning Angel of Altruism Studies (People may notice a lack of hard stats from me when posting characters - I don't have the basic IN book, and while I can create a full G:IN character easily enough, the translation would still be a little fuzzy. Ithiel's Word is relatively low-level at the moment. He's highly intelligent, mathematically inclined and not very physical.) Ithiel was created to keep track of the academic community's opinions about itself and the world around it for report to Jean. In his Role as a independently wealthy outsider with an amateur interest in any subject which came to hand, he traveled the campuses of the universities and academies for hundreds of years, providing Jean's organization with the basic knowledge to create academic Roles and occasionally identifying troublesome or promising trends in intellectualism. Along the way, he has picked up a collection of education perhaps not so deep as one of Yves' Friends of the Sages, but enough to hold his own with one. Ithiel was bothered when Darwinism, a perfectly respectable biological theory, began being used by people to justify callous and selfish behavior as "survival of the fittest." Spurred by this development, other theories in a wide range of fields, like economics, Utilitarianism, and Freudian psychoanalysis, were taken up by people to justify all kinds of immoral and selfish acts. When demons were doing the perverting of noble theory, Ithiel could take action. But as long as people were the ones doing the interpreting, Ithiel, as an observer who must stay an outsider(demanded both by his Role and his Elohite nature), was severely restrained in how far he could sway debate. So he waited. Finally, his patience was rewarded. The theory of kin selection arose within Darwinist views of evolution to justify certain kinds of altruistic behavior.* Others followed - the idea of mutual cost-reduction** survived well, and recently the introduction of game theory*** thrilled him no end; he studied these ideas earnestly and tried to promote their development. Recognizing that he was starting to get a little carried away with this stuff, he stepped back for a moment and considered whether he really wanted to continue doing this, and what benefit Heaven might gain from doing so. After due thought, he presented his petition for the Word of Altruism Studies. After what might be considered the ultimate Ph.D. thesis - Jean required him to produce a logically tight study, beyond anything humans were currently doing, which concluded in some way that selfless acts were positive by some rational measure - his petition was accepted. As the Angel of Altruism Studies, Ithiel is even more devoted to his subject. He has faith, bone-deep faith, that the concept of selfless acts can be translated into information that can be transmitted to humans, and then confirmed with evidence, or better yet, logic that is unassailable. He believes that God has designed the Symphony in such a way that evil acts are not only self-defeating - every angel knows that - but demonstrably so, via logic and physical evidence. Ithiel promotes studies of altruism and ethics in human behavior and in animal populations(he definitely gets along well with Servitors of Jordi, who enjoy seeing someone hold up the animal kingdom as a model for human behavior). When something positive comes up he spreads the word in the academic community across disciplines to try influencing everything from philosophy to sociology, as human-interest stories to public media, and to religious leaders who are usually pleased to see support for morality and ethics coming from the scientific community. When something negative comes up, he spurs further research to either explain it in better terms, or interpret the results in a different, yet consistent way(he will never suppress the truth). His dream is to see a world where evil acts are reduced in number and severity simply because it's so obvious to everyone that they're pointless; where God's Word and God's Love are made manifest to humans through their own understanding, and the fundamental contradictions of the First Liar and his followers are revealed for the absurdity they are. Angels of Faith respect Ithiel's conviction, but look askance at his attempts to pin down God's Laws in terms of numbers and studies. They also point out that once someone reveals a supposedly altruistic behavior to be good for the doer, the behavior is now done for selfish reasons. Ithiel replies that, firstly, increasing such behaviors for any reason decreases the evil effects of the alternatives, and secondly, every time humanity finds out that some moral act turns out to be the wisest course of action from a purely self-serving point of view, the people who had faith back when it was just "the right thing to do" turn out to be the ones that were right all along - and if somebody keeps getting proven right, humans tend to start giving those viewpoints their faith. William * Kin selection: behavior, which, while damaging to the individual, aids its kin in such fashion as to increase the chances of genes similar to the individual's own being passed to the next generation. A parent defending its offspring is the most basic example. Further kin in the same pack or herd group would also qualify, if the threat were large enough. ** mutual cost-reduction: If you need Task A performed, and she needs Task B performed, and you can perform Task B for less that it costs you to perform Task A, and she can perform Task A for less that it costs her to perform Task B, then it's to everyone's mutual benefit for the two of you to perform the lower-cost task and give the results to the other person. Ithiel gets along well with some Lilim and most Trade Servitors. ***game theory is such a broad subject that I'll just touch on a well-known example - the Prisoner's Dilemma. In this situation, two people have a chance to hurt each other for their own benefit, without being able to communicate. If person A chooses to help and person B chooses to hurt, person B gains something and person A loses much more. Vice versa the other way. If both choose to help, both lose - but only a little. If both choose to hurt, both lose big time. The dilemma is that, on balance, optimal payoff is provided when neither choose to hurt the other, but if you're fairly sure the other will stick to helping, you have an incentive to gain by hurting. Of course, so does the other guy, and you could just end up screwing each other. There are many philosophical, game-theoretic, and sociological questions, variants, and ideas that arise from this simply-described(but by no means simple) problem.**** ****My personal take on it is this - the assumption is that both people are perfectly rational, so they should come to the same conclusion. Hence whatever decision you make, the other guy will too. Either you will both help, or you will both hurt. So stick to helping. Ithiel's take is that this is the kind of situation that demonstrates morals for human guidance - if both men do the right thing, despite what looks like the rational choice hurt and gain something, they'll come out of the problem relatively unscathed. *****Ithiel is kind of based on me as a math grad student. Can you tell? ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:30:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Urim (A sub-Band of Lilim...) A long while back, someone asked about these. So. These are not canon. These are not even canon in an "IMC" sense. These are based off of a "what-if" at 3am that is _loosly_ connected to some IMC stuff. (IMC = In My Campaign, for those who haven't seen that TLA before.) Premise1: A Lilim named Urichislon who has shown up in some of my private fanfic who is, basically, weird. Many people who meet her come away with the sneaking suspicion that either she's an Elohite painted green with horns stuck on, or else... Well, there's a lot of other "or elses" around to speculate on. Anyway. Premise2: A third side with Lilith on it. (We will not get into this one. It's part of the premise, affects some of the minor details, and that's all that really matters.) Premise3: By hook or by crook, Urichislon gets a Word. The Word that I was thinking of with insomnia at 3am was "Balance." (Uri's sort of a "Gray Renegade" personality, who mostly slipped under Game radar by being too weak and unobtrusive to be noticed. Premise4: Uri gets promoted to Superior. Now, for various and sundry reasons, Uri deems it appropriate to have Lilim. But she can't make them -- at least not the way that Lilith can. So she clones herself. The Urim (singular: Urim, and it's plural for a REASON) are unique creations of Urichislon. They are all at least nine Forces. They are all demonic -- or at least as demonic as Urichislon is (which is a subject of debate sometimes, but we're not going there). They all _look_ like her in celestial form, no matter what vessels they have -- after a while, they may develop subtle differences, but otherwise, each Urim is indistinguishable from another. (With one exception -- Bright Urim are only look-alikes for each other; they get the wings and aura of Bright Lilim.) They all act pretty much like Urichislon, too: reserved, an understated curiosity, and a gift for deadpan comments. They don't gossip amongst Lilim, much, either. But somehow, what one Urim is told, the others seem to find out quickly. There's a reason for that. There's only one Uri, and she is Many. Urichislon creates Urim by manifesting herself (as Superiors can, see the GMG), carefully stripping the manifestation down to size, and "detaching" it as a separate individual. Think of it as "budding." The new Urim knows everything that Uri-prime knew at that time, though without access to a Superior-level mind, many unaccessed memories fade quickly. She will gain her own memories and experiences, of course, and the nuances of her personality will acquire its own quirks. But she's still _connected_. Urim have the Lilim talent for Needs and Geases, but what they also resonate to is _each other_. Urim always know each other. Always. Urim are always _connected_ to the Urim gestalt. This isn't a Borg thing, quite -- they don't _necessarily_ enter into a state of being One Being. But they can always hear the murmur of their otherselves sister-thoughts, and with a moment of concentration, tap into the network. (Treat this as the Ethereal Song of Tongues, for no Essence cost, with any other Urim anywhere in the Symphony.) Archangels have noted that redeeming an Urim always feels like they're "pushing something uphill that's heavier than it looks," but so far, none have guessed the truth. Urim don't tell them. Urim don't tell _anyone_ that they are One. Why should they? (You don't _get_ disloyal Urim -- that would be like having a finger rebell against the body. If a Urim became that diseased, she would be reabsorbed.) So the Superior of Balance quietly moves about her apolitical business, infiltrating the ranks of other Superiors with her perfectly loyal (so long as it serves Balance) Urim. And should the balance be upset, well, someone will have to set things to rights. Choir/Band Attunements Urim have the same Choir and Band Attunements as Lilim. They are, after all, a subspecies. Attunements of Balance None are known at this time; Urichislon _only_ employs Urim as Servitors. (Nepotisim is great.) Other celestials who serve her are "temps," just as her Mother uses. Rites: (All Urim have these Rites; even the Bright ones. No, there is no dissonance if an angelic Urim uses a Rite of Balance.) * Restore the Symphonic balance in an area. * Gain a Heart from another Superior. Invocation: (roll 1d6; the chance that you'll be near an Urim who Urichislon can "possess" to take your call, so to speak, varies...) Uri is more receptive to those who aren't working for her than any other Superior -- do _not_ apply the -10 for "not my Boss" at all, when trying to get her attention! Of course, she _is_ a Lilim, and quite likely to charge you for helping out. Urim, naturally, can _always_ contact Uri-prime, taking only a moment (a round or two, if in a combat situation) to enter the gestalt. But they won't do it unless it's important enough. (They may consult with the gestalt and see if it's important enough, from the Whole Perspective; this looks a lot like a 'failed invocation' to bystanders, if the gestalt decides it's not important. Urim are always very blase about 'failed invocations.') Invocation Modifiers: + Geaslevel: As for Lilith -- if you swear a Geas as you call her, add the level to the invocation target. +1: Scales or a teeter-totter, perfectly balanced. +2: Two debaters, evenly matched on either side of an arguement. +3: _Three_ debaters, likewise. +4: A half-dozen Elohim, of different Superiors. +5: Two or more powerful people, deadlocked on a vote. (The Seraphim Council, a meeting of Princes, the United Nations, etc.) +6: Superiors from both sides, evenly matched. +Sure Thing: Armegeddon. Duh. There. Use them or not. You now have insight as to what my slumber- starved brain spits out at three in the morning when I can't fall back to sleep. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 12:34:40 +1200 (NZST) From: Keith Bolland Subject: Re: IN> Amusing question On 8 Sep 2000, Casca wrote: > Radio -- Kyriotate > Internet -- Cherub The Internet more or less falls under the dimensions of Orc's Word, though... Even if you want to make an angel of the Internet, I'd think it'd be more appropriate to be a Kyrio: the 'net is such a distributed, sprawling beast that a Cherub would go out of its celestial mind trying to keep track of its attunements. OTOH, if by Radio you mean commercial radio rather than ham, a Cherub could do that job fairly well, as there aren't usually that many commercial stations in any given area, and the Cherub wouldn't go mad from attunement overload. That said, I'm not at all sure why you'd want to make one angel of each choir to compose the Muses: you could spread the whole lot fairly well around a group of Elohim, Kyrios, and Mercurians. //-- <*> Keith Bolland --------------------------------------- // "Life isn't fair. But the root password helps." -- The BOFH ------------------------------ Date: 8 Sep 2000 18:21:18 -0700 From: Eric Bertish Subject: Re: IN> Amusing question On Fri, 08 September 2000, Keith Bolland wrote: > The Internet more or less falls under the dimensions of Orc's Word, > though... I wasn't being as clear as I could have been. Frex, Carmel's Word isn't really Television, but properly "All non-technical aspects of TV, specifically historical and cultural/sociological significance". I'm certain there is a technically-minded Angel of TV somewhere in Jean's service. So while the Internet DOES fall under Orc, I was thinking more along the lines of "The implications of instantaneous, worldwide and very accessible information, be it through newsgroups, mailing lists, webpages, bulletin boards, emails, and other such things." And once Eli boots them out of the nest, so to speak, many of them will associate with related Word-holders from other Superiors. > Even if you want to make an angel of the Internet, I'd think it'd be more > appropriate to be a Kyrio: the 'net is such a distributed, sprawling beast > that a Cherub would go out of its celestial mind trying to keep track of > its attunements. OK, that makes sense. > OTOH, if by Radio you mean commercial radio rather than ham, a Cherub > could do that job fairly well, as there aren't usually that many > commercial stations in any given area, and the Cherub wouldn't go mad from > attunement overload. Works for me. Thanks! > That said, I'm not at all sure why you'd want to make one angel of each > choir to compose the Muses: you could spread the whole lot fairly well > around a group of Elohim, Kyrios, and Mercurians. Eli's being Symbolic. It's all very poetic, but you'd need to be thousands of years old to begin to understand. ;) (Because I thought it would be neat, and I never reign in wacky ideas when it comes to Eli.) _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:05:59 -0400 From: Garrett Taylor Subject: Re: IN> Alternate rules On Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:53:15 -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >> *rules gutted for a system better suited to how I want my IN >> adventures to flow > >I'm curious; what did you do to the rules? Well, I guess I should back down and say I gutted the mechanics and modified the rules slightly to fit the expanded mechanics. For example: Cherubs are still the Guardians, and still use a 6 tiered chart for resonating on something, but the CD has been replaced by a Success Level (which is more sensitive to 'skill'). Basically, if you know how to get from A to D with IN, you can still get from A to D with my system - its just you go through B instead of C. I posted a bit (admittedly rambling) about it a while ago: Search for "Robosaurus" to find the beginning of the post. >Use another published system? >Makes lots of changes to IN's system? >Use your own system? If I had to break the mechanics down: TORG - 50% (published) core mechanics, skills, interactions, success levels, player resources, cards, spell creation, varied equipment lists MasterBook - 25% (grandson to TORG system, published) expands skills, unified damage system, more cards In Nomine - 14% (published) Forces, interventions, songs, disturbance, Mage: The Ascension - 1% (published) consensuality and its effects on disturbance IN List ideas - 3% disturbance effects, misc bits My stuff - 8% basically the glue that holds this frankenstein together, tweaks based on my ideas of IN cosmology The setting is pure IN, excepting slight modifications for my campaign. >What's it like? The keep fanboy/preaching to a minimum I'll try to focus on story and combat flow. The TORG heritage helps (mechanically, at least) support a style of heroic cinematics: Adventure breakdown - Adventures are cut into Acts, Scenes, and Events. A duration of 'the entire Adventure', 'until the next Act', or 'for two more Scenes' are perfectly valid durations for all sorts of effects. Awards / Character Points are given out at the end of Acts and at the beginning of each Scene players can replenish their hand of cards. Drama Deck - I can control the flow of the action with it. The players can control the flow of the action with it. Additionally they can use certain cards to add to rolls (Adrenaline, Willpower, Presence), to start subplots (Romance, Nemesis, True Identity), pick out extra clues not normally found (Alertness), or know just the right person (Connection). With ~156 cards, each of the different in one way or another, those are just a few of the effects. Approved Actions - Approved actions (determined by the Drama Deck) are actions that if they are successful, will net the player another card. Maneuvering, Taunting, Tricking, Testing, Attacking, Defending, and Intimidation can show up alone or in pairs on any given card. With a desired benefit (more cards) as the carrot, this can change combat from: Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack(song), Attack, Attack, ... to a slightly more interesting: Attack, Dodge, Maneuver, Attack(song), Taunt, Trick ... Non-damage effects - Up's, Breaks, Stymies, Inspirations, Setbacks, Player's Call's, Unskilled's are all effects I can inflict on PC's (or have inflicted on the NPC's) that aren't just a plain-jane "±X to hit". The Fatigue result is shock damage (which heals real quick), which is frequently modified by armor. These help determine a character's course of action - don't try anything difficult/dangerous under a Stymie. Under the effect of an Up? Go for broke! You opponents have a Flurry? Prepare to defend yourself or resist the Taunt? Below is a conversion chart to help IN players grok what the effects do: Effect TORG IN (estimated) - ------------------------------------------------------------ Up Roll again and add Choose the check (good) that to the previous digit _after_ the roll when generating a roll but before bonus number. determining (big bonus=good) success. Flurry Affected characters get Affected characters get (good) one extra action one extra action this round. this round. Inspiration Immediately healed all Regain enough Hits to (good) shock, K, and O wake up and then heal damage. All affected STR in Hits. All Players draw a card. affected characters gain 1 Essence. Player's The interaction The interaction Call* succeeded so well, it succeeded so well, it (good) is literally a is literally a character's call as character's call as to the effects. to the effects. Stymie Lose first additional Lowest die swapped (bad) roll again no matter with check digit die the source. _after_ the roll but before determining success. Breaks* Preventing or causing Preventing or causing (bad) major damage causes major damage causes the opposition to the opposition to flee. flee. Unskilled Difficult (aka All skills are used (bad) Boldface) skills in default mode. automatically fail or roll the skill as if the character had no adds in the skill. Setback* Event trigger for bad Event trigger for bad (bad) thing to happen to thing to happen to the affected the affected *= These are supposed to be vague to give the GM/Players wiggle room. Damage - with three different types of damage (wounds, shock, K/O/KD), I can abuse the PC's until they pass out (shock) or get knocked out (K/O) without worrying about killing (wounding) them. Damage descriptions and how they combine can be found at: Dramatic Skill Resolution (DSR) - There are times when time is a very real constraint on needing to do something, disarming a bomb is the atypical example. The GM sets 3 or 4 milestones and a few choice things that could go wrong. Then the player(s) try to succeed before the deadline runs out. The cards provide a way of metering what steps (A, B, C, D) they can take, but they can't succeed a step that isn't showing. They must take them in order and Critical Problems, Possible Setbacks, and Complications can also prevent them from succeeding at a mile stone. (Actual samples can be emailed on request.) Initiative - The Drama Deck ("Again?!") can be used to determine initiative, the effects (above) each side is under, depending on the mood of the scene. If the PC's are on home turf, or in the beginning of the adventure - I use the Standard line, cause I know that the PC's win init. more often and have more 'good' effects. Now it's the climatic battle of the adventure, and the PC's are sneaking around in the Villain's lair. When the Villain throws the light switch and the PC's see they are surrounded by bad guys and are heavily outnumbered, I'll switch to using the Dramatic line. villans go first more often and the PC's get the dirty end of the effect stick for the most part. Unified Values - having a unified mass/distance/time quasi-logarithmic chart to convert things to TORG Values for comparison makes my GM'ing life easier. With it I can quickly judge damage from a collision, how far a ball is thrown, or how long it takes the PC you run a 5K race. The engineer in me says 'a lot', 'far', 'a while' are not useful answers. The whole she-bang is in the m-k-s system, making it even easier. That's it in a rather big nutshell. Since I go on and on (and on and on...) about the cards, you can see what one looks like: If you have FilemakerPro you can download the database file from there and print your own. I'm still trying to get it in a decent PDF format (FMPro like rasterizing certain text before sending to print, something my PDF tool _doesn't_ like :\ ). Delimited formats are available too. By now the Habbalah of Hardcore GM'ing may be saying that a GM doesn't need all this crap to control flow and combat. To which I say, 'Absolutely.' Like dice, these cards and such are only objective arbitrators for those following the rules. While dice are usually evenly weighted, the cards are not. In turn, my knowledge about the weighting can help control flow, instead of dictating the flow. Overall, using my/this system relieves the administrivial chores and let me focus on generating an engaging story with my players that draws everybody in for hours at a time. Although my 'real' IN site is, well, lacking... The "I'm-going-to-finish-it-real-soon-now" bare-bones site: is where you can find more information about the conversion, char. gen., the AA's translated to IN-TORG, my translation of most of the Songs (about 50 of them + seperate NC), Some new songs, dissonace, disturbance, etc. Note: the character logs are more of a repository for my players, rather than my creations. Discussion and/or questions are always welcome. - -Garrett Taylor Macintosh Specialist / Perl Pounder / Web Wrangler / CGI Stooge Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University Daytona Beach, FL USA Information Technology - Internet Services - Administrative "If something bad is going to happen, let's have it happen at maximum velocity." - --Harold, 'The New Red Green Show' on PBS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 23:14:52 -0300 From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca Subject: Re: IN> Urim (A sub-Band of Lilim...) On 8 Sep 00, at 19:30, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > There. Use them or not. You now have insight as to what my slumber- > starved brain spits out at three in the morning when I can't fall > back to sleep. Put that way, do you have any other results of your insomnia that you're willing to share? I liked this. > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > > "Sore wa himitsu ja nai." -Zen no Itan Sha Philip Barkow pbarkow@is2.dal.ca http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/ Harbinger of Keener-sama Vice President DPG Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper. Lapsed Discordian Head of the Keiko-chanian faction ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:49:43 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Contest-Most Horrifying Demon in the World Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Which reminds me of a canon question, can a Superior strip Word forces from > >a Servitor? No. > Though I've got a nasty headache at the moment, I don't see why not. They> can, IIRC, be lost in celestial combat, after all, no? Only if the Word-holder _chooses_ to sacrifice them in lieu of normal Forces. Giving a Superior the ability to strip Word-Forces will have Bad Consequences. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:56:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Amusing question Casca wrote: > I have some ideas, but they're not set in stone, and I'd like feedback on them before I do it in-game. My ideas are: I would think he'd want very broad Words for his Muses, representing fields of artistic endeavor; you seem to be limiting them to particular media, which is a classification system I'd expect from Nybbas (or Jean) more than Eli. My suggestion would be to take your basic ideas and expand them to the broad area of artistic expression governing each. Performance, Storytelling, maybe Visual Arts, etc., rather than Radio, TV, Internet, and so on. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1812 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.