From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 13 19:41:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27091 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:41:48 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA20070 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:14:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:14:20 -0500 Message-Id: <200009140014.TAA20070@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1819 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1819 In this digest: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) (Tongue in cheek) Re: IN> Recovering lost words Re: IN> David Re: IN> Recovering lost words Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Heck, half her Servitors call her "Mom" anyway. Re: IN> Recovering lost words Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) IN> Revision on Giles, the Malakim of Slash Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) IN> Prefall adventuring. Re: IN> Prefall adventuring. Re: IN> Tether ideas Re: IN> "...and says his prayers by night..." RE: IN> "...and says his prayers by night..." RE: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) IN> Choirs RE: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) IN> What if ... Lucifer didn't Fall? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:31:01 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) At 12:08 PM -0600 9/13/00, ben wrote: > > Now David, beloved other authors please correct me if I'm wrong in saying >> that the reason Khalid is an Elohite is because that he was well on his >way >> to becomming a Habbalah (the atypical fanatic). By tossing away > >Khalid is an Elohite because there was only one Elohite Archangel. The sad thing is, the same argument could apply to Kyriotates, and I could make a much stronger case for a Kyriotate Archangel than an Elohite. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - - Systems type - Manager by day - Writer - Online Journaller ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:35:27 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) >Khalid is an Elohite because there was only one Elohite Archangel. Apparently Affirmative Action is a divine policy. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:47:29 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) > >Khalid is an Elohite because there was only one Elohite Archangel. > > The sad thing is, the same argument could apply to Kyriotates, and I > could make a much stronger case for a Kyriotate Archangel than an > Elohite. This got me thinking. Was Khalid a product of Derek Pearcy? If so, then an Elohite Archangel of Faith -- a severely discordant Elohite Archangel of Faith -- makes for biting commentary on religious faith in general. That would seem to jibe with Pearcy's smirking style in general. > Eric Alfred Burns - - Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:47:45 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) From: ben Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) >This got me thinking. Was Khalid a product of Derek Pearcy? If so, then an >Elohite Archangel of Faith -- a severely discordant Elohite Archangel of >Faith -- makes for biting commentary on religious faith in general. That >would seem to jibe with Pearcy's smirking style in general. For what it's worth, the character and behaviour of Khalid come largely from the French INS/MV (rather than Derek), though the Khalid there is much less likely to Fall, or even to seriously doubt. However, as they have no Choirs (or Bands) the choice of making him Elohite must have been Derek's, or someone else's at that stage. Interesting. Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) (Tongue in cheek) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:08:58 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) >> Now David, beloved other authors please correct me >> if I'm wrong in saying that the reason Khalid is an >> Elohite is because that he was well on his way to >> becomming a Habbalah (the atypical fanatic). By >> tossing away >Khalid is an Elohite because there was only one >Elohite Archangel. > >Ben Ssssh! Keep it down, willya? We don't want THEM to know that we've figured it all out. ;) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:23:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Recovering lost words At 3:28 PM -0400 9/12/00, Charles phipps wrote: >>What would it take for these to be reassigned? Well, first, the Seraphim >>Council would want someone who would likely be worthy of, eventually, >>becoming an Archangel. Then they'd want someone who'd be worthy of >>becoming an Archangel BLESSED FAST, and be _very_ good at it, because >>the Princes involved tend to be very snitty when they find out someone >>has their old Word. > >This is a curious point but would someone with a Superior's word instantly >be elevated to the status of Archangel. Probably not -- they'd have to prove themselves and get in sync with the Word. But they'd have to be able to do it fast, before the Prince found out and took them down. > I recognize that Khalid took his >time in being declared the Archangel of Faith but I'm not sure if that isn't >just it becomming a word powerful enough to support a Superior. Possibly some of both, but if you assign a Word to someone which is _known_ to be capable of being a Superior Word, then, well -- you need someone who is worthy of being a Superior. >Basically if your word becomes a Superior Word do the Seraphim >Council/Lucifer have to visit you to "fix" you where you become >ineffaible/able to do etc or do you have to learn that, or do you suddenly >feel the elevation as Children becomes an archangel's word? Unless the GM is spreading rumors or making something part of a campaign focus -- Superiors are elevated by Council or Lightbringer (or God). They don't "just happen" when the Word gets that powerful. It is a bit of a fuzzy area in some ways, as ben points out, but the default is that it takes an "uplifting" from a Higher Power. Why? Because if every other (but _only_ every other) Superior got that way from raw power, it would cheapen the position. (If _all_ of them got where they are from raw power, that's a campaign element, which should have its effect on the campaign itself. Probably in the brightness (lowering) and contrast (graying) areas.) >>Well, Lucifer might just appear to the new Angel of Light, smile >>disturbingly, >>offer a boon, INSIST that it be taken, and then, well... _something_ bad. > >That might happen...brrr....shudder. Though I'm curious actually though if >Lucifer might not take a VERY bad reaction to this. What, you don't count the above as a VERY bad reaction? You're not thinking evilly enough. Very Bad doesn't have to involved an _obvious_ temper tantrum. Revenge is, of course, a dish best served cold. As cold as the Lower Hells. Which is where he would want to see such an upstart... >>If you were on the Seraphim Council, would _you_ want to try to reassign >>a Word, the last owner of which might not be dead, just sort of... >elsewhere? >>Especially if the Malakim somehow derive their UnFallingness from it, and >>reassigning it might make them lose their PurityGuard Fall-protection >>coating.... > >Well if I were a Servitor of Laurence, Litheroy, Dominic, Blandine, or >Gabrielle...yes though not Laurence or Gabrielle themselves no. I'd also >retort that the Malakim unfallingness is likely no more linked to Uriel than >truth to Michael or Speed to Gabrielle (whoever says this all WILL be >getting some enemies sadly). Jean to logic! Ah, but Uriel was the First Malakite, and his Servitors did not Fall so long as they were _his_... Uriel has a mystique. Besides, he's not known to be _dead_ -- just called upstairs. And trying to have someone share a Word with a (presumably unknowing of the addition) Archangel might result in Bad Things. () >>Any others -- well, they'd need someone who'd be _worthy_. And considering >>that Knowledge was around sometime before the _Earth_ (if you believe >>angels), and the Waters was there from waaaaay back as well, it's going >>to take some deserving, dedicated angel a loooooong time to live up to >>the stature of the original holders. > >Are you absolutely sure it's not angels haven't had the guts to apply for >it? David, Janus, and even Gabrielle perhaps might support any halfway >decent angel who applies for the Word of H2O if it will restore the >Elemental Equilibrium. Oh, I'm sure there are angels out there who are working dutifully and enthusiastically to support the Word and prove their worthiness. But Words like that -- they're playing with the big boys, and they aren't going to be some wet-behind-the-wings new fledge who's gonna get it. Anyone who has it is going to have to be _able_ to uphold their corner of Elemental Equilibrium. What's the point of giving it to the first angel who comes along? Besides, when it comes to Words like that, one needs to have the right combination of self-esteem (without descending to hubris) and humility. A Word that just _happens_ to get powerful enough (such as, say, Children) is a much different thing than one where the angel has to step into the shoes of an AA, right from the get-go. ("I knew Oannes, you tyke, and _you_ are no Oannes!") >>Corruption >>Impress Lucifer and _don't_ be a Shedite with the ability to multi-task. > >Don't forget the Balseraph Beezlebub! IIRC, Beez was the _first_ Prince of Corruption. Legion was more spectacular. And any Shedite asking for that Word will probably be ambushed outside the nearest structure by several Princes and quietly torn to little shreds while it's still relatively little and weak. (I can't think why any Prince would _want_ another potential Legion back -- Legion nearly wiped the floor with them all the _first_ time, and there's no guarentee that there'd be an AA who'd be both capable _and_ willing to kamikaze this time around.) A non-Shedite Corruption might have a better chance of things. >>Anyway, that's something that's going to dominate the campaign, which >>may or may not set well with the other PCs. [...] > >Like I said I'm curious if Alliances might not be useful. Necessary, really. Which results in that PC doing a lot of talking to NPCs, probably, unless the GM can finagle some way to have the other PCs be playing ambassador. > Beezlebub probably thought he could kill Uriel. Oannes fought >Belial I think because he was Belial's mortal enemy, Oannes toasted Vephar, and then Belial caught him while he was wounded. Presumably Songs of Seals figured into things. >As for down South...alittle more difficult especially with words that offend >people but allying with a Prince's enemy is not a bad idea. Unless you get used as a stalking goat... (I'm not saying it can't be done; I'm just saying that aiming for a Superior-level Word is something that will, and _should_, dominate a campaign. And there may be problems with something like that. And it shouldn't be a cakewalk. I mean, you can make it a cakewalk if you want, or just have God/Lucifer go BING, You're The Superior Of X, but it's sure not how _I'd_ do it, and I'll cock my eyebrows at you funny.) (Using an NPC for the new holder, with the PCs on the "ground floor" as servitors/Servitors, would probably work better -- all the politicking can have gone on in the past, or in the background, except for what the PCs handle.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:35:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> David At 11:56 AM -0400 9/13/00, Marc Bowden wrote: >--On Wednesday, September 13, 2000 13:28 +0930 Gnezda > wrote: > >> Lobbing food isn't dissonant for servitors of David as it isn't >> strictly a weapon, unless you use that >> really hard cheese and sharpen the edges or use spare ribs... > > So, using women as a throwing weapon *would* be dissonant, >automatically? Yes. >("Blueberry," he thought, instead of ducking. *splat* Blueberry it was.) Mmmm, Ford. John M. Ford. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:37:41 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Recovering lost words Elizabeth McCoy said... > Ah, but Uriel was the First Malakite, and his Servitors did not Fall so > long as they were _his_... Uriel has a mystique. Besides, he's not > known to be _dead_ -- just called upstairs. And trying to have someone > share a Word with a (presumably unknowing of the addition) Archangel might > result in Bad Things. () Ah, but what if alignment were the idea? What if Laurence, Khalid, Michael, Yves ... really, anyone, wanted to see if they could get something out of pushing for the Word of Purity to be awarded: A) Uriel returns/is returned during the process. B) The angel holding the Word would somehow 'tune in' to Uriel, perhaps allowing Uriel to aid Heaven in an indirect way. C) More Unfalling Servitors, in the long run. D) ... suggestions? Sean _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:35:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Genevieve Cogman wrote: > However, as they [INS/MV celestials] have no Choirs (or Bands) Really? So there are just generic "angels" and "demons"? How about all the apparatus of attunements and distinctions? Do the traditional words "seraphim" and "cherubim" have any use in the French original? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:39:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Heck, half her Servitors call her "Mom" anyway. Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:59:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Heck, half her Servitors call her "Mom" anyway. >A very cute write-up, but in what sense is Lily the >daughter of Novalis that is different from any other >Servitor she created? (I know Rex, the Demon of >Cool, is Nybbas's creation and "son," but I thought >the familial relationship was just because Nybbas >said so, as far as anyone knew.) Well, it's involved. :) As someone else pointed out, the difference is the entire "personal Forces" bit, as contrasted to the (in my mind's eye view, at least) "the Superior takes the loose Forces out of the universe and weaves them together" bit. As any Lilim can tell you, having a piece of your soul that was once a Superior's (for however long), with the 'flavor' of that Superior permeating it, does strange things to your mojo. Being comprised fully of personal Superior Forces would be (again, IMHO) a whole level of intensity higher. Besides, if any Archangel was going to have a kid (besides Blandine, of course), it'd be Novalis. :) >By the way, I usually picture Ophanim of Flowers as >whirling wreathes... I didn't, but I think I will in the future. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:44:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Recovering lost words On the other hand, you don't want to do anything that could be considered *contaminating* the Word of Purity. As Beth said, pop goes the angel. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:08:21 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) >Genevieve Cogman wrote: >> However, as they [INS/MV celestials] have no Choirs (or Bands) > >Really? So there are just generic "angels" and "demons"? >How about all the apparatus of attunements and distinctions? >Do the traditional words "seraphim" and "cherubim" have any >use in the French original? The distinctions are pretty much the same, titles and all, though angels/demons of that rank are referred to as of "grade 1", "grade 2" and "grade 3" -- grade 0 angels and demons exist, but one gets elevated out of that fast by succeeding in a mission or two. (And if one doesn't, one can look forward to a thriving career as a known incompetent scrubbing the toilets of Notre-Dame, or similar.) Each of the distinctions has the associated power, mostly the same as in IN/SJG. Attunements -- each Archangel and each Prince has a particular attunement (Andrealphus' "Orgasme Mortel", for instance, which I suspect is fairly obvious), most of which made it across to IN/SJG as one of the attunements for that Superior. There are no specific Choir/Band attunement things. However, instead of Songs, there is a huge great list of Powers (which also includes a few Discord-type-things at the end). When you're creating a character, you get a few of them, partly depending on random dice roll. If you succeed in missions, you may get more. Go go powerangel. (Amusingly enough, when creating an angel, the Random Power at 666 on the table is the Psychopathic Killer discord. Yum...) I haven't seen the terms "seraphim" and "cherubim" used, or at least, I can't recall them being used in a directly game-related sense. - --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:38:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) At 12:47 PM -0600 9/13/00, ben wrote: >> >Khalid is an Elohite because there was only one Elohite Archangel. >> >> The sad thing is, the same argument could apply to Kyriotates, and I >> could make a much stronger case for a Kyriotate Archangel than an >> Elohite. > >This got me thinking. Was Khalid a product of Derek Pearcy? Yes and no. Khalid's initial writeup nigh-duplicates the INS/MV writeup of him. I _think_ it was Derek's choice to make him an Elohite. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:25:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Genevieve Cogman wrote: > The distinctions are pretty much the same, titles and all, > Attunements -- each Archangel and each Prince has a particular attunement etc. Thanks for the review. It becomes clearer and clearer that these are two hugely different games with only a genealogical connection. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:20:52 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) >Thanks for the review. It becomes clearer and clearer that >these are two hugely different games with only a genealogical >connection. No problem. One can move bits and pieces between them, and steal plots and concepts -- but yes, they are extremely different ultimately. Genevieve, waiting for the INS/MV Encyclopaedia Spiritis volume 2 to come out (gory details on all the Princes, yum yum) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:33:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Twila Oxley Price Subject: IN> Revision on Giles, the Malakim of Slash - - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Giles, Malakite Angel of Slash(Fan Fiction)*, Servitor of Eli in service to Novalis "Sir, you *must* help me... Kirk-and-Spock getting it on. Mulder and Skinner. Mulder and the bleeping Cigarette Smoking Man. Hell. Even Laurence and Michael, for all I know." The Malakite who'd spoken took another drink of the fine Scotch which his companion had manifested for him, while said companion chugged another of his fizzy-green-with-pastel-paper-umbrella-stuck-inside concoctions. Un-noted by either of the drinking companions, several Swordies had risen from their chairs, but had been urgently shushed by their more ... um ... circumspect brothers. "But it's so far out," his companion replied, leaning back on the bar stool so that he could look Giles in the eye. "Can't you feel the Energy, the ... Creation going on in those writers?" "Yeah," Giles said. His fingers twiddled with the glass in his hands, absently noting just how hard he'd have to throw it to take down, say, that big guy in the back of the bar. "It's just, you know, when The Flower said she'd talked to you and you'd asked her to sponsor me for a Word... I mean, Slash sounded ..." He paused as his companion shook his head. "Gotta run. Just keep up the Good Work, Giles, and I'll check in after you've settled down with your Word. Ciao." And with that, Eli took his leave of the Eighth Virtue and a still-puzzled Malakite wondering what in Creation he was going to do with the Word of Slash (Fan Fiction). And, worse, how was he going to explain what he'd said to the Swordies, and who he'd said it to to the Dominicans? Forces: 12 Corporeal Forces: 4 Str 6 Agi 10 Ethereal Forces: 4 Int 8 Pre 8 Celestial Forces: 4 Wil 8 Per 8 Oaths: 1. Never suffer an evil to live if it's my choice. 2. Never allow myself to be captured by the forces of evil. 3. Encourage creativity among humans. 4. Strive to better my writing every day and to encourage others to do the same. 5. Do not tolerate sub-standard work. Vessels: Human/1(female); Role/1 (Anonymous writer/beta-reader of slash on the Internet) Human/4(male); Role/2 "Giles ffolkes", producer and screenwriter for a popular British television series. Skills: Artistry(writing)/4, Knowledge (producing television shows; screenwriting)/4, Knowledge (fan terms and conventions for fanfic; the most popular couples being "slashed")/5; Driving/3, Savior-Faire/4, Brawling/5, Large Weapon (sword)/5. Songs: Forms (Corporeal-Ethereal-Celestial/4), Harmony (Corporeal-Ethereal-Celestial/3), Light(Celestial)/4 Attunements and Distinctions Abracadabra (from Eli) Special Rites: +1 whenever he convinces a slash writer to follow the rules of English (or whatever language they're writing in) Giles is a very puzzled Malakite. He's still rather young, only a century or so old, and he never expected to gain a Word this quickly. He became fascinated with the human ideas of acting and movies when he was newly-fledged, and when he found out about Nybbas' rise to power and the Media's attacks on movies and television, well... He became somewhat of an expert on the sociology of television, and Eli gave him the chance to go to Earth and become a screenwriter. ("Hey, kid, break a pencil. Make your old man proud." -- Eli's orders.) When Eli went walk-about, Novalis took in Giles, since he was less of a combat monster than some, and he actually valued helping humans more than killing demons. He was taught the Songs of Harmony as an aid to that end. While he didn't gain any major Distinctions or Rites with Novalis, Giles did build up his Role to a position of relative power in the British television establishment. He also managed a few coups against the Media, enough to allow him to hold his head up when the other Malakim were swapping war stories at the Eighth Virtue.... Then, about three years ago, Eli met Novalis and asked her to sponsor Giles for a very special Word. Although Novalis doesn't say that she knows why Eli asked this, she also hasn't said she doesn't. She's been firmly non-committal, thereby frustrating our poor Dominic no end, but... There seemed to be no reason not to give the young Angel this word, so in the end, after some minor politicking, the Seraphim Council invested Giles with the Word of Slash. As they did so, the Symphony swirled around and changed the Word to Slash(Fan Fiction). Everyone -- save Yves, as usual -- was taken aback by this odd happening, but it was done now... and Giles has been left to puzzle out exactly what the Symphony might want with an Angel of Slash (Fan Fiction). He's exploring it slowly, with a bit of misgiving, since it doesn't seem to be your normal angelic Word -- but he sees opportunities to do good and to combat evil in it, and he's going to take them whenever and where-ever possible. *Slash is a genre of fan writing which posits intimate relations between characters in a given show or series, or even cross-overs - -- and we're not talking hetero intimacy here. Originally manifested around our favourite Vulcan and his (male) Captain, the term slash comes from the "/" between Kirk/Spock. Most of it is written afaik by female fans, although I haven't actually sat down and quantified how many authors are male and how many are female. There is also a huge yaoi(m/m)/yuri(f/f)/shonen ai/shojo ai genre in Japan, analagous to slash, but centered on manga and anime characters, mostly in drawings. I suspect that Giles would have that under his *ahem* black wings too. **In Hell, the reaction has been a uniform "*huh*?", except in certain quarters of Shal-Mari, where Lilim of Andre have been heard chortling quietly. And connecting to the Internet and writing furiously. It is already popular to pair Laurence and David, Laurence and Janus, Laurence and ... you get the idea... although there are some Giles fans out there too, and they've been working on some Very Special Stories. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:42:47 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) ben wrote: > This got me thinking. Was Khalid a product of Derek Pearcy? If so, then an > Elohite Archangel of Faith -- a severely discordant Elohite Archangel of > Faith -- makes for biting commentary on religious faith in general. That > would seem to jibe with Pearcy's smirking style in general. Khalid is from the original INS/MV game, and he's one of the most direct imports -- Derek translated a lot of his writeup nearly word for word. Which is why he fit so badly, since Derek was unwilling to acknowledge that the SJG version had already evolved considerably in a different direction. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:44:52 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Genevieve Cogman wrote: > However, as they have no Choirs > (or Bands) the choice of making him Elohite must have been Derek's, or > someone else's at that stage. Interesting. As others have mentioned, Khalid was explicitly made an Elohite because "There haven't been enough Elohite Archangels." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:46:21 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Prefall adventuring. I plan to run a campaign that starts long before the Fall and will continue until the present day. The starting session will take place at roughly 500,000 BCE to play through the discovery of fire, and one of the players is interested in playing a Soldier of God. Now, I understand that this may take some handwaving to make it work -- this guy will be a Homo Erectus to start with, and Soldiers probably didn't exist back then, but I can do the mojo to make an exceptional human work closely with the angels... ...what I wanna know is this: If an Ofanite of Eli were to selflessly give a Force to a human being and the human purchased the Ofanite of Eli attunement, would that human then be immortal? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:56:11 EDT From: Zeresh43@gateway.net Subject: Re: IN> Prefall adventuring. >what I wanna know is this: If an Ofanite of Eli were to selflessly give >a Force to a human being and the human purchased the Ofanite of Eli >attunement, would that human then be immortal? I believe that technically, yes. Still, he would have to actually use the attunement for this to work, so he would age normally if there was something (never mind what, this is just theoretical) prohibiting him from using it. That's just me Clear Skies Zach "I know who you are! You're the Dee Eee Vee Eee um...Eye El." - --Delerium of the Endless "Don't drink the sludge at the bottom of your coffee cup. Don't drink the cup either. Just the coffee." - --Destruction of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:18:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Tether ideas > > But anyways, anyone have any ideas for a realitivly quick tether of > > death? I was thinking of possessing a jet pilot and flying a full > jumbo jet > > into another one but the disturbance alone.... As David said, Celestials can't do that on their own (at least not directly). However, they can act indirectly by pointing mortals in the proper direction. Finding a human psychopath, showing him where to obtain some explosives and getting him into a stadium during a major sporting event is one way; you may want to try something different. Note, however, that no such method is completely reliable. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "...and says his prayers by night..." - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > we've got vampires. We've got mummies. > We've got zombies, ghosts, every flavor of demon, > mutant nasties (well, we haven't seen many yet, but > the Vapster must have a few lying about, and they're > easy enough to make), Pycho Killers, golems, > sorcerers, mad cultists, madder scientists and even, > God help us, Grey Alien Space Brother cattle > mutilators. In short, we've got everything one could > hope for a rousing IN Halloween horror minicampaign. > With one exception. > > We don't have any weres. How could we have possibly > forgotten weres? :) > [snip] > Any suggestions? One possibility: a variant of the Celestial Song of Form. This would mainly be used for the wereleapard of African mythology and other shamanic types (read: Pagan Soldiers) who are in control of their changes. The curse of the European lycanthrope is more like a Disadvantage -- possibly one of the mutations that Nephallim and Gorgons get stuck with. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> "...and says his prayers by night..." - --- Graveyard Greg wrote: > Huh--same thing happened with my article about Limbo...it's in > Editorial > Limbo (couldn't resist), but it's going to get printed...eventually. I heard something about an article on Limbo -- but that's neither here nor there. };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:40:38 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) David wrote: > As others have mentioned, Khalid was explicitly made an Elohite because > "There haven't been enough Elohite Archangels." "Whereas we're crawling with Kyriotates." *grin* Leath ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:45:46 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Sayeth Leath: > David wrote: > > > As others have mentioned, Khalid was explicitly made an Elohite because > > "There haven't been enough Elohite Archangels." > > "Whereas we're crawling with Kyriotates." *grin* You aren't going to suggest that, of the two choirs with one rep each among the Archangels, the one dedicated to seeing a multitude of equally valid viewpoints among humans would have been a better choice for Faith? Sean ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:00:17 +0930 From: Gnezda Subject: IN> Choirs So, Khalid was morphed into an elohim because there was only one elohim archangel eh... Well, in that case, it's only a matter of time before my bright lilim becomes an archangel. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:41:00 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Other Choirs for Archangels or Khalid the Olfalim (among others) Sean wrote: > You aren't going to suggest that, of the two choirs with one rep each > among the Archangels, the one dedicated to seeing a multitude of equally > valid viewpoints among humans would have been a better choice for Faith? Not at all ;) Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:13:48 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: IN> What if ... Lucifer didn't Fall? DISCLAIMER: This is most emphatically NOT canon. I will refer to things from the books to support my theory, but I want the theory to be clear up front. I do not propose that Lucifer, in present canon, is actually a Seraph. Rather I propose that you could create an alternate setting in which he Did Not Fall and probably is a Seraph without needing to throw the rest of the history out the window. It has been written that after Lucifer was cast bodily out of Heaven by Michael, the other rebels 'found their own way out'. In this way, it could be argued that they all left of their own volition. They could have, as Lucifer did, remained true to their cause and fought until the last. They did not. Turning their backs on Heaven and their own cause, they left ... and they Fell. Now ask them why! They will tell you, surely, of Lucifer's promises to them. Promises which to we the reader and perhaps even to your characters listening wreak of Wrong. They will tell you that Lucifer is first among Balseraphs, a great liar and any of a million other things. But they are demons ... and demons lie. Lucifer never lied and he never will, for Lucifer is a Seraph. He did not want to leave Heaven, did not want to turn his back on God and has never changed what he believes. Michael, backed by a power of consensus similar to that of the Seraphim Council of today, not only forced Lucifer out of Heaven in a relocation sense, but also cast him out. Lucifer is indeed Outcast, which is why his Principality appears at it does. Arriving in Hell, they will tell you, Lucifer faced down all the others and took charge. This is hardly the case. Dispirited and broken, still new to the demonic mindset, it was perfectly natural for them to follow their shining leader. Ever since, he has still ruled. His voice resonates with the Truth of the Symphony. And why can only Lucifer grant Words, among the demons? Some whisper his personal power is greater, others that any Prince might but dares not. These are more lies. Lucifer is still in tune with the Symphony and can grant Words as any Archangel might.* No, Lucifer did not want this to happen. He did not plan it and is not secretly in collusion with anyone. Before the Rebellion, he walked alone with Metatron and Metatron did not return. Many speculate Metatron was destroyed by Lucifer. More lies, of course. Speaking to God through Metatron, Lucifer was able to convince Him that the Eden experiment had not been sufficient. He asked for another chance to prove his beliefs about humanity. He asked that this time, God not interfere and terminate the experiment early. Or perhaps God did not terminate the original experiment early, perhaps it was other angels. Regardless, he asked that the Almighty not involve Himself. The Lord granted this request and the Metatron left for the Higher Heavens.* Suspicion reigned as what would later be called the Rebellion began. Lucifer had convinced many angels of the rightness of his plan, for Lucifer was very persuasive. He could say "I believe ...", "I think ..." and "I hope you will see ..." with a silver tongue, a masterful tone that struck every word into your very soul as True -- and indeed, he never lied. Not all were convinced, indeed, most were not! When Lucifer came forward and stated he had been the last one to talk to God, that God had given him special instructions and he would be making important changes to carry out the new experiment, the reaction was not good. To stay fully out of it, God had drawn the barrier of Ineffability across Himself, so that he would not influence the outcome in any way. Michael, Dominic, Uriel*, none of them could sense whether Lucifer's words were True or even true. But you cannot lie in Heaven and Lucifer did not even deceive slightly. Not that it mattered. The majority of Heaven did not agree with Lucifer and did not want to let him do what he proposed. They came to the agreement that Lucifer and his followers were trying Rebel against God's authority. The fighting began. To this day, Lucifer continues to prove his theory. Indeed, humans have been shown to be very corruptible. Every soul taken into Hell is another bit of proof, another point that Heaven must concede him. Lucifer is aware things have gone wrong. Dissent in Heaven should never have grown to violence. A third of the Host should not have Fallen, but once they did he had to keep them under control. In Lucifer's mind, they are helping him prove his point ... but it would have been a far, far better thing had they remained true to the cause and even if more would have been destroyed, none would have Fallen and the testing of Humanity would have gone more smoothly. Still ... what is a Seraph to do? Rule the Fallen and bide his time. The actions of God since that time puzzle him, for Ineffability cuts both ways, but he maintains his faith. This could cast the Malakim in a different light altogether. Was it just Uriel's sense of betrayal that caused this? Perhaps Lucifer was entirely pure, but his followers were already straying and acting selfishly. Does anyone know this story to be true? Good question. Not one I can answer quite yet. Cliches about Yves smiling aside. Please give your feedback on this idea. Again, it is an alternate setting, not an attempt to be revisionist with canon. I note that there are no reliable and direct reports of Lucifer lying that actually explain what he was lying about in the books. I am assuming this is because no explanation of How or Why Lucifer does things could ever be as cool as the mystery ... but it formed in my mind a convenient springboard for all this. Sean *(1) Depending on campaign, you may want to say the consensus power of the Seraphim Council is needed to award Words. In this setting, however, it might make more sense that the Host, unwilling to let something like the Fall happen again, simply do not make major decisions except in Unity. See what happened to Uriel. If not, perhaps God granted Lucifer certain additional powers via Metatron before withdrawing. Could the case be that it is simply easier to grant Words to demons, given that they have no complex relation with the Symphony to work around? Or even that Lucifer can't grant Real Words alone, which is why all the Words he tries to give to demons are inevitably twisted by that demon's personal symphony? *(2) Or otherwise ceased to show itself to the Host. *(3) I happen to say in my games that Uriel was a Seraph. Truth, Purity, all that sort of thing. _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1819 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.