From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Sep 28 06:44:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA17889 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:44:48 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id GAA17551 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:43:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:43:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200009281143.GAA17551@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1833 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1833 In this digest: Re: IN> More On Disturbance IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> More On Disturbance Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... IN> Divine Incursion Survival Tactics 101 Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> Lilith as Human Re: IN> Lilith as Human Re: IN> Lilith as Human Re: IN> Questions, questions..... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> Lilith as Human Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> Lilith as Human Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... RE: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... IN> Kyrios Re: IN> Kyrios Re: IN> Kyrios IN> Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow... Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... IN> 100% Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> 100% Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Re: IN> 100% Re: IN> Kyrios Re: IN> 100% ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 03:16:52 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> More On Disturbance > > [...]- making a durable change in the corporeal that wouldn't > have come to turn except for celestial interference. That's what I > always thought generated disturbance, something that wasn't *supposed* > to happen (or be able to happen) but did. Humans don't generate > disturbance because their choices and actions are part of the game... [...] > > > Marc. Just Marc. > Elohite Angel of Salvation > (Ow. Brain hurts. Ow.) Well would doing something to heal a human/mundane object also generate disturbance then? Frex, A song that does damage to a human disturbes the Symphony to its degree of disturbance plus the damage dealt. Using the above model then wouldn't Corp. Song of Healing Disturb the Symphony equal to the damaged healed? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:42:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> No books with me, curse it... Hey, here's a fun question for all you sports fans: what happens to a Calabite if he has all of his Discords stripped from him? Loss of resonance, messy explosion, what? On a related note, I'm trying to remember if opposite side Superiors can remove a celestial's Discord, and whether it can be done at range. Yeah, I know that the train of thought is kind of sick. I haven't had lunch yet. Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of "Five Essence Says I Can Make His Spleen Explode, Larry..." ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:43:15 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> More On Disturbance - --On Thursday, September 28, 2000 03:16 +1000 Azrael wrote: > > Well would doing something to heal a human/mundane object also > generate disturbance then? Frex, A song that does damage to a human > disturbes the Symphony to its degree of disturbance plus the damage > dealt. Using the above model then wouldn't Corp. Song of Healing > Disturb the Symphony equal to the damaged healed? > IMC I'd have to rule it depending on where the damage came from and what the Celestials' mission is. A cherub of Destiny assigned to keep an attuned alive is one thing in my head, an infernal doing it to keep a riot going by surreptitiously healing the ringleaders is quite another. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("...some are boojums...") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:18:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Maurice Lane wrote: > Hey, here's a fun question for all you sports fans: > what happens to a Calabite if he has all of his > Discords stripped from him? Loss of resonance, messy > explosion, what? Ooh, cute question. I suppose the dull answer is that even a Superior can't do that without destroying (or, if Archangelic, redeeming) the Calabite. The fun answer is resonnance loss, leaving you with a generic thuggish slob of a demon. > On a related note, I'm trying to remember if opposite > side Superiors can remove a celestial's Discord, and > whether it can be done at range. I don't think so. I think this is covered in the GM's Guide. There was a strong tendency for the two sides to have to leave each other's servitors alone. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:51:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Divine Incursion Survival Tactics 101 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:57:07 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> It's official. I have IN permanently hardwired intomy brain. >It started with a prayer that Michael and all his >host of angels might come down to protect us from the >Forces of Satan and cover us in the blood of >Jesus "so that all that is not of Jesus may burn", >and all I could think was "If the Archangel of War >turns up looking for blood with some servitors of >Gabriel, I'm running..." Naah. Malakim are like T. Rexes: it's movement that sets them off. Just sit very very quietly until the first wave of bloodshed is over, then join the bunch of Soldiers hauling away the bodies. If anybody challenges you, just point to Mike and wink: with any luck, they'll just figure that you're a deep-cover agent or something, and you shouldn't have too much trouble getting to the door. THEN you run like Hell. Failing that, well, there's always the trick of pointing out the nutball who was screaming about Jesus' blood in the first place: people like that always set Servitors of Fire's teeth on edge... ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of I'm Kinda Cynical Today, Huh? ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:27:58 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... In a message dated 9/27/00 12:21:24 PM Central Daylight Time, earlw@mc.com writes: << Ooh, cute question. I suppose the dull answer is that even a Superior can't do that without destroying (or, if Archangelic, redeeming) the Calabite. The fun answer is resonnance loss, leaving you with a generic thuggish slob of a demon. >> Well, Kronos has done it, so obviously it's possible. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilith as Human - --- -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > my own thoughts are somewhere on the order of 'Adam and Lilith were > of > a completely different order of human; Lilith left and retained this > unusual nature, while Adam and Eve (also unusual) fell from God's > grace, and the differences in their (Adam's and Eve's) natures was > aligned to those of normal humans. they were, after all, an > experiment of (paraquoting) "human nature at maximum potential," neh? Hmmm... if falling from grace is what made humans what they are today, how did Lilith retain her uniqueness? I would think that becoming a Demon Princess would constitute a fall from grace... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilith as Human - --- "Tafka J." wrote: > Hold on a second. Think about this a second. Grigori _are_ > Celestials. > They also are able to reproduce with Humans. What if Lilith was the > prototype for the Grigori? I mean, she'd be more from the human side > of > the equation, but you never know. . . Now THIS idea bears exploring... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:00:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilith as Human Michael Walton wrote: > Hmmm... if falling from grace is what made humans what they are > today, how did Lilith retain her uniqueness? I would think that > becoming a Demon Princess would constitute a fall from grace... A different kind of fall. Lilith wasn't tempted, never ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and thus never came under the specific curse of mortality that was put on Adam and Eve. That's why she isn't mortal. Also, she's Lucifer's own individual protege (or whatever). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:02:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Questions, questions..... - --- BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > Just some random questions I've been meaning to ask but never > remembered: > > 1) Skill Mastery: Humans can do it, celestials can't. Sort of a > method of > leveling the playing field. No problem. But I can only assume that a > Kyriotate of Destiny has full access to those Mastered skills? Sounds reasonable to me. Destiny Attunements are sooooo cool. > 2) Fast Eddie the Ofanite of Destiny gains the rank of Friend of the > Sages. > Fast Eddie has four Celestial Forces. Does Fast Eddie get to add four > to his > general knowledge rolls, thus giving him an overall score of 15 in > every > subject? Heh heh... see above. > 3) This is the most hypothetical of my questions, as it's hard to > envision a > situation where it would actually happen. Would a Balseraph of Fate > who had > (for example) the Mercurian resonance, be able to gain Mercurian > choir > resonances? I assume you mean Choir _Attunements_ -- and the answer is yes, if the demon could somehow get an Archangel to award those Attunements (good luck on that one). > The only place I could envision the last one is if the Bal in > question were > a Grey Renegade which was HIGHLY favored, and was being actively > courted for > Redemption. And even then I could not really see it. But that brings > up > another question: Can a Grey Renegade gain and use heavenly Rites? I > forget > if this was already written somewhere. But I could see that > happening. Sort > of a "See how nice we are letting you use our Rites? Want to Redeem > now?" > Plus using a Rite strengthens the Superior's Word, no matter who is > using it, right? Grey Renegades can get angelic Rites, but it's not a good idea. Archangels have a limited ability to trace those who use their Rites. As a demon -- even a Renegade -- having an Archangel who knows how to find you shortens your life expectancy considerably. As for the last part of the question, Rites don't strengthen Word per se; they strengthen a Celestial's connection to a Word. If a Celestial gains Essence from a Rite and then uses that Essence to perform an action that weakens the Word of the angel/demon from whom the Rite was gained, it weakens the Word. This is why the Word-bound are careful about who knows their Rites. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:09:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Hey, here's a fun question for all you sports fans: > what happens to a Calabite if he has all of his > Discords stripped from him? Loss of resonance, messy > explosion, what? Calabim don't necessarily need Discord to use their Resonance... one of the DP's (I forget which, I have no books with me right now) actually has this as his Band Attunement. > On a related note, I'm trying to remember if opposite > side Superiors can remove a celestial's Discord, and > whether it can be done at range. By my understanding of the powers of Superiors, any Superior can remove Discord from any non-Superior Celestial. It's just so difficult that none of them bother unless there's something in it for them. I'm pretty sure that they can't do it at range, though. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "God, protect me from my friends - -- my enemies I can handle." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 2000 21:42:09 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith as Human On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Michael Walton wrote: >--- -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >> my own thoughts are somewhere on the order of 'Adam and Lilith were >> of a completely different order of human; Lilith left and retained this >> unusual nature, while Adam and Eve (also unusual) fell from God's >> grace, and the differences in their (Adam's and Eve's) natures was >> aligned to those of normal humans. they were, after all, an >> experiment of (paraquoting) "human nature at maximum potential," neh? > Hmmm... if falling from grace is what made humans what they are remember, in the In Nomine universe, there were other humans around besides Adam, Lilith, the "Second Wife," and Eve. i'm postulating that when Adam and Eve broke God's commandment, they became just like every other human already on the planet, their boosted essesence stripped of them because the Eden Experiment was over. >today, how did Lilith retain her uniqueness? I would think that >becoming a Demon Princess would constitute a fall from grace... Lilith didn't fall. she didn't eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. she may have eaten of the Tree of Life, but that's up to individual GMs to answer. bottom line is, God gave Adam and Lilith (and later Eve) one directive: Do Not Eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Lilith grew disgusted with Adam and left the Garden without having broken God's single directive to them, so she got out, her uniqueness intact. as to how she stayed that way, i'm going to handwave the ineffibility of God or the intervention of Lucifer before she became a Demon Princess ("Here is a favor to you in your time in the desert, beautiful one, to show my intentions are pure--unlike the rest of the Host...."). ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 2000 21:54:57 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Michael Walton wrote: > Calabim don't necessarily need Discord to use their Resonance... one >of the DP's (I forget which, I have no books with me right now) >actually has this as his Band Attunement. what? somebody point me to where, because if this were the case, i don't see why it wouldn't have been Vapula's so he could have some Destroyers of his own--or simply instill "Calm" as the Discord all of his would-be Calabim would have. as it stands, i don't recall anyone in canon whose Calabim Band Attunement is 'no starting, permanent Discord.' -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:06:28 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Lilith as Human >A different kind of fall. Lilith wasn't tempted, never ate >of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and thus never >came under the specific curse of mortality that was put on >Adam and Eve. That's why she isn't mortal. Also, she's Lucifer's >own individual protege (or whatever). I think Lilith is more Lucifer's toy/servant than protege. Remember Lucifer hates humans, a lot. Some he hates more than others, those in the Upper Heavens probably top the list. Lilith is most likely hated less because she's proof that humans can go pretty low. She's helping damn the rest of her kind for her own power and Freedom. Although lots of questions aren't answered by Lilith in canon I tend to dislike all answers put forth that involve her being super nifty keen, ultra friendly and able to swing the War radically. I prefer to think of her as Lucifer's trophy wife, and his private proof that humans are a failure. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:14:43 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... IIRC Asmodeus hands this one out. Asy doesn't like Discord. He also lets Shedim ignore their band dissonance in some ways. Those game attunements are pretty neat. Sean _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:24:34 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... >On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Michael Walton > wrote: >> Calabim don't necessarily need Discord to use their Resonance... one >>of the DP's (I forget which, I have no books with me right now) >>actually has this as his Band Attunement. > what? somebody point me to where, because if this were the case, >i don't see why it wouldn't have been Vapula's so he could have some >Destroyers of his own--or simply instill "Calm" as the Discord all of >his would-be Calabim would have. as it stands, i don't recall anyone >in canon whose Calabim Band Attunement is 'no starting, permanent >Discord.' Kronos' Calabim start the game without Discord. As for Discord being "the destructive warp in [the Calabim] by which they warp and break things outside themselves," that may just be what they think. It's not the Calabim Discord that bothers Vapula; I'm sure he has a number of servants with Discord, especially Lilim. That's life in Hell. It's their aura of entropy which pisses him off, because it keeps breaking his stuff when they get near anything delicate. That's the Band's nature and part of its resonance, nothing to do with its Discord. > -=|horsefly|=- > >Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. > --Clayton A. Oliver William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:13:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > << Ooh, cute question. I suppose the dull answer is that even > a Superior can't do that without destroying (or, if Archangelic, > redeeming) the Calabite. The fun answer is resonnance loss, > leaving you with a generic thuggish slob of a demon. > >> > > Well, Kronos has done it, so obviously it's possible. He has? Where? - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "OH you otten nichel I otten a currency from ten cent of dollar / I grad AT otten AT sap ya but I not otten time" -- (Beginning of Devo's "Wiggly World", run through Babelfish twice) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:30:35 -0700 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Er...well, other mail has proven my recollection on no-discord Calabim was wrong. Oh well. Sean _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:31:02 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> No books with me, curse it... horsefly wrote: > what? somebody point me to where, because if this were the case, > i don't see why it wouldn't have been Vapula's so he could have some > Destroyers of his own--or simply instill "Calm" as the Discord all of > his would-be Calabim would have. as it stands, i don't recall anyone > in canon whose Calabim Band Attunement is 'no starting, permanent > Discord.' Kronos. His Calabim start with no Discord. My take on the matter is that Calabim require their Discord to focus their entropic fields and break things. However, Kronos is able to bypass this by allowing his Calabim to focus entropy through his connection with time. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:56:16 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... In a message dated 9/27/00 4:57:58 PM Central Daylight Time, horsefly@ghostmail.net writes: << what? somebody point me to where, because if this were the case, i don't see why it wouldn't have been Vapula's so he could have some Destroyers of his own--or simply instill "Calm" as the Discord all of his would-be Calabim would have. as it stands, i don't recall anyone in canon whose Calabim Band Attunement is 'no starting, permanent Discord.' >> Pretty it's Kronos. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:58:48 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... In a message dated 9/27/00 5:23:26 PM Central Daylight Time, thealien@dangerzone.org writes: << Asy doesn't like Discord. He also lets Shedim ignore their band dissonance in some ways. Those game attunements are pretty neat. >> I like the way Beleth lets her Shedim ignore her dissonance condition. And since it's not really attached to resonance, any of Beleth's other Servitors can avoid Superior dissonance for the low, low cost of 5 resourse point! I love it. More proof that life ain't fair. :) In fact, unfairness is one of the things I like about In Nomine. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:00:56 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... In a message dated 9/27/00 5:28:09 PM Central Daylight Time, wjk150@email.psu.edu writes: << It's not the Calabim Discord that bothers Vapula; I'm sure he has a number of servants with Discord, especially Lilim. That's life in Hell. It's their aura of entropy which pisses him off, because it keeps breaking his stuff when they get near anything delicate. That's the Band's nature and part of its resonance, nothing to do with its Discord. >> I think if Vapula ever did try out some Calabim, he's give them an attunement similar to what Andrealphus gives his Habbalah, and let them choke back their resonance without Discord. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:41:04 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: IN> Kyrios Can a Kyrio of Stone/War have multiple vessels (they would have to invest forces of course), and can they manifest in multiple vessels? Azrael...Hmmm Combat Monster ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:11:37 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios In a message dated 9/27/00 9:53:42 PM Central Daylight Time, angelofdarkness@dingoblue.net.au writes: << Can a Kyrio of Stone/War have multiple vessels (they would have to invest forces of course), and can they manifest in multiple vessels? >> I considered that, too. I had an idea of a Kyrio of War, with 10 Forces, having 2 vessels, and maintaining a Role as husband and wife. Of course, this particular Kyrio couldn't possess anyone, at least until it gained an 11th Force. But mice and pigeons make useful hosts. even if they are small. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:38:23 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > But mice and pigeons make useful hosts. even if they are small. Especially given that the kyrio retains its own physical stats and body hits (although naturally they have poor leverage and negative protection in small hosts)... Cheers, -Ryan, an erstwhile ofanite with butterfly vessel "One under each hoof, lift and run." -Nanny Ogg, on how pictsies steal cows, Carpe Jugulum, T. Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow... I seem to be finally getting over my cold. Of course, if stuff like this is the result, then maybe the world's better off with me all sniffly. ;) Moe (Yeah, INC it if you wanna) Thug Zapper These nasty, inventive little relics come straight from the nasty, inventive mind of Jaymiel, newcomer Archangel of Mending. Jaymiel dislikes demons in general, of course, but she particularly despises Calabim: cleaning up after them can be incredibly frustrating. She's decided to thin the herd a bit. A Thug Zapper is a one-time celestial artifact that is always disguised as something else. Jaymiel makes bunches of them and leaves them lying around in areas with heavy celestial traffic: most Tethers have a few. Zappers do absolutely nothing at all ... until a Calabite wanders within 10 yards of one. Then, the relic arms itself. The very next time a Calabite uses his resonance within 10 yards, he gets blasted with the stored-up energy in the relic. This can be very painful and very, very loud (Jaymiel couldn't care less about disturbance: it's actually usually beneficial, one way or another). Jaymiel makes two kinds of Zappers: the first type utilizes the Celestial Song of Light, while the second draws on the Celestial Song of Lightning (the Archangel of Mending is a former Servitor of Jean's, which is why she has access to his more obscure Songs). While less powerful, Light Zappers are useful in areas where demons are known to go about in celestial form: five or six of them can turn a Calabite into a shadow of his former self. Lightning Zappers require a reliable source of electricity, and can't do celestial damage ... but they can fry a vessel quite handily. Right now only Jaymiel, Jean, and a few Servitors of each know how to make Zappers of either type, although it's rumored that Vapula is trying to reverse-engineer the trick (it's also rumored that the Demon Prince of Technology had very little difficulties "capturing" samples). Frankly, they serve more as terror weapons than as anything else, which suits Jaymiel just fine: they make Calabim nervous and less efficient, and are utterly harmless to anyone else to boot. Thug Zapper - Light Relic/6 (Celestial Song of Light) 18 Self Powered 0 User Restriction: only works on Calabim, upon their successful use of a resonance within 10 yards (This is judged to be a +4 Enhancement) 4 Disturbance: 12 points -6 Hard to detect: -6 on Perception Rolls 3 Charges: one use /4 Total Cost: 5 points Thug Zapper - Lightning Relic/6 (variant of Celestial Song of Lightning) 18 Self Powered 0 User Restriction: only works on Calabim, upon their successful use of a resonance within 10 yards (This is judged to be a +4 Enhancement) 4 Use Restriction: Must be plugged into a source of electrical power (a gas generator will do) -1 Disturbance: 12 points -6 Extra Essence Capacity: 4 8 Hard to detect: -6 on Perception Rolls 3 Charges: one use /4 Total Cost: 7 points ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:22:49 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... From: -=|horsefly|=- On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Michael Walton wrote: > Calabim don't necessarily need Discord to use their Resonance... one >of the DP's (I forget which, I have no books with me right now) >actually has this as his Band Attunement. <> Kronos, iirc. Give me a minute...Yes, Kronos. (Which isn't that much of a benefit, since the online FAQ indicates that normal Calabim get character points for their Discord.) << because if this were the case, i don't see why it wouldn't have been Vapula's so he could have some Destroyers of his own>> You know a lot more about In Nomine than me, of course, but what appears to me from the main book is that he doesn't hate the Calabim because they have Discord, but because their Resonance is naturally destructive, and they turn it on everything around them (which includes his technology) when it fails, so as to avoid Dissonance. <<--or simply instill "Calm" as the Discord all of his would-be Calabim would have.>> There's an idea. Perhaps it's an idea Vapula didn't have. << as it stands, i don't recall anyone in canon whose Calabim Band Attunement is 'no starting, permanent Discord.'>> Kronos. Page 172. - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 02:16:28 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> 100% Okay. Another tricky question: Trade Servitors get a point of Essence for making 100% profit on an honorable transactions. This is fine for goods, but what about services? What if a Trader's friend comes up and says, "Hey! I'll give you $20 if you mow my lawn!" The Trader agrees, and mows the lawn in under an hour. The Trader has certainly made a good profit on the deal, having made $20 for an hour's easy work, but how much profit? Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 02:26:57 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... At 6:24 PM -0400 9/27/00, William J. Keith wrote: > >Kronos' Calabim start the game without Discord. As for Discord being "the >destructive warp in [the Calabim] by which they warp and break things >outside themselves," that may just be what they think. I define the discord as the flaw in the circuit. If the Ofanite is a circle of pure, whirling energy, the Calabite is the Ofanite with a crack in the circuit -- a short, causing all that power to be shunted out destructively instead. Non-discordant Calabim, like Kronos's Servitors, are no doubt remade to have that flaw in them without it reflecting in their soul as Discord. Sort of "mark II" Calabim. - -- I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener. Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:40:28 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> 100% >From: BillionSix@aol.com >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Trade Servitors get a point of Essence for making 100% profit on an >honorable >transactions. This is fine for goods, but what about services? What if a >Trader's friend comes up and says, "Hey! I'll give you $20 if you mow my >lawn!" The Trader agrees, and mows the lawn in under an hour. The Trader >has >certainly made a good profit on the deal, having made $20 for an hour's >easy >work, but how much profit? > I would say that being paid for work done wouldn't count for that rite. But if the Trader has a (mortal) friend who usually charges $10 for an hour's lawnmowing, and the angel manages to get him a job that pays double the amount, the rite would work. You'd like to think that a self-respecting servitor of Marc would cut himself in for a slice of the profit, too :) I also don't think that servitors of Trade are allowed to trade items amongst themselves for easy Essence. (OK, how about if I sell you my shirt for $60 -- that's twice what I paid for it, and you sell me your walkman for $60, twice what _you_ paid for it?) jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:45:36 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> No books with me, curse it... Leath wrote: > My take on the matter is that Calabim require their Discord to focus their > entropic fields and break things. Oh. That's not what I imagined. At all. I thought if the Calabim's Discord is linked by any mean to their resonance, it would be in the sense that their resonance backlashed so many times, or that it's slowly eating their soul. More like a cause = Resonance, effect = Discord kinda thing... Not the opposite. IMHO, of course. Kish wrote: >> or simply instill "Calm" as the Discord all of his would-be Calabim >> would have. > There's an idea. Perhaps it's an idea Vapula didn't have. Calm or not, a Calabite would still be surrounded by an aura of entropy. The Calm discord would work if you rule the Calabim Resonance as a controled power. If you treat it as an unstable power, then the Calm discord would be useless. For the rest, I'd think pretty much like Kish and William. Note: Vapula doesn't use any Calabim as... er... "engineers", but I'm pretty sure he loves using them as test subjects... (Let's see... if I take the Corporeal Forces of this Destroyer, the Celestial Forces of this Liar, and add the Ethereal Forces of a human, what happens... BOOOOM!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:51:12 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> 100% > What if a Trader's friend comes up and says, "Hey! I'll give you > $20 if you mow my lawn!" The Trader agrees, and mows the lawn > in under an hour. The Trader has certainly made a good profit on the > deal, having made $20 for an hour's easy work, but how much profit? What about the Servitor of Trade gets his Essence if he gets $40 out of the job? Even if he adds something to the job, like take care of the flowers or something... Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:42:03 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios In a message dated 9/28/00 2:53:42 AM, angelofdarkness@dingoblue.net.au writes: >Can a Kyrio of Stone/War have multiple vessels (they would have to invest >forces of course), and can they manifest in multiple vessels? > >Azrael...Hmmm Combat Monster No. I believe this is in erratta. Each vessel takes the Kyriotate's full forces. Now, mind you, those Kyriotates can buy multiple vessels just like other angels can, and switch between them, IIRC. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:44:40 -0400 From: David Wood Subject: Re: IN> 100% Quoth Jo Hart on 9/28/00 4:40 AM: >> From: BillionSix@aol.com Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> Trade Servitors get a point of Essence for making 100% profit on an honorable >> transactions. This is fine for goods, but what about services? What if a >> Trader's friend comes up and says, "Hey! I'll give you $20 if you mow my >> lawn!" The Trader agrees, and mows the lawn in under an hour. The Trader has >> certainly made a good profit on the deal, having made $20 for an hour's easy >> work, but how much profit? Okay, I'm in for a piece of this... As GM for a group which currently has a Trader in it, I can say with some relief that I've never been in a position where this has happened yet. But I'm ready for it... First, let's look at a basic question: how much does it cost to mow a lawn? Those questions will vary greatly from area to area, so answer these yourself. There's gasoline and maintenance on the mower, sure, but there's an intangible here: the salary. The recompense for time spent on a task is a fundamental right (note: not rite) that many angels (and Archangels) recognize, even if they don't agree with Marc politically. Marc, money-oriented camhead that he is, actively tracks it. Marc probably even has a whole department set up to track the costs (and values) of these intangibles all over the world, country by country, city by city, area by area. And when one place produces a good or service cheaply enough, and another place puts sufficiently high value on that good or service, Marc's operation springs into action, drawing up the business plans, lining up venture capitalists, opening the pipeline, and raking in the Essence. It's not overstating it to say that Marc relates to money the way that Jean relates to science, and that no other Archangel (like David, for example) can see the utter complexity of the patterns involved. (Hey Morgan! Here's a freebie for you to write up: The Angel of Value, Elohite of Marc, With Suitably High Distinction That I Can't Name Now Because The Book Is In The Damn Car. Some day, perhaps I should write up the Angel of Secretaries, who I have in my game helping to screen Marc's calls...) In the case of mowing the lawn, if the fee is double or better the cost of the operation including all intangibles, the Trader qualifies. It's still a GM's Option call for you (and a cop-out for me :), but you have some guidelines to go by now. > I would say that being paid for work done wouldn't count for that rite. But if > the Trader has a (mortal) friend who usually charges $10 for an hour's > lawnmowing, and the angel manages to get him a job that pays double the > amount, the rite would work. Doesn't the Trader have to do the work or initially possess the product himself for the rite to work? > You'd like to think that a self-respecting servitor of Marc would cut himself > in for a slice of the profit, too :) Mammon might, but Marc is an angel. He already pays himself a salary for Heaven's work. If his agents also started acting for commissions, people might consider him greedy. In fact, as it stands now... >:) > I also don't think that servitors of Trade are allowed to trade items amongst > themselves for easy Essence. (OK, how about if I sell you my shirt for $60 -- > that's twice what I paid for it, and you sell me your walkman for $60, twice > what _you_ paid for it?) 1) Boil it down to a single trade if you can, and 2) Count the intangibles. I could actually see that working ...IFF (If and Only If) it wasn't premeditated. As it stands, what they're saying is that they're willing to trade "a shirt + $60" for "a walkman + $60". I don't see anybody making 100% profit in that bargain, and I don't think Marc would either. But you HAVE given me a wicked idea... >:) A single Trader with lots of property and no Essence could hold a "fire sale" -- he gets all his friends to pay inflated prices for his interesting items (I don't see a Trader selling actually worthless goods. Anything they sell has to work as promised or else it's a swindle -- and Dissonant) so that he can generate Essence quickly. I would allow this as well, but consider the deal in question: if the Trader proposes it, or the buyer(s) are sufficiently knowledgeable in the ways of Marc, the trade isn't "nifty little item for $X," but instead it's "nifty little item PLUS THE INFERRED PROMISE TO USE THE ESSENCE GAINED TO HELP OUT for $x." That intangible there is the kicker -- $x will have to be much more than 100% of the value of the nifty little item. The value of that one is a GM's Option call as well, but as it's being used to help out the cause of Heaven in general (unless the operation by this point has really gone south), the GM should be a little more lenient. - --David http://skipjack.bluecrab.org/~dwood "Failure is a coyote-ugly nineteen-year-old nymphomaniac who, while she's making love to you, ridicules you for not being able to find anybody better looking." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1833 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.