From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jan 19 21:14:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30928 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:14:47 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA31058 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:14:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:14:49 -0600 Message-Id: <200101200314.VAA31058@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2025 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, January 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2025 In this digest: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) IN> From 666 Electronic Productions with Association with Squaresoft IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2024 Re: IN> From 666 Electronic Productions with Association with Squaresoft Re:IN> January 17, 2001 (ML) IN> January 18, 2001 (you've noticed the drift by now, I'm sure). Re: IN> Heretical Djinn Band. IN> Pewter miniatures Re: IN> The Angel of Gunfighters Re: IN> Alexis (urgent question) Re: IN> Question about Lilith Re: IN> From 666 Electronic Productions with Association with Squaresoft Re: IN> Pewter miniatures Re: IN> January 18, 2001 (you've noticed the drift by now, I'm sure). Re: IN> January 18, 2001 (you've noticed the drift by now, I'm sure). Re: IN> Question about Lilith Re: IN> Question about Lilith Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) Re: IN> Question about Lilith Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) IN> Artifact Costs Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) Re: IN> Artifact Costs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:57:05 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) At 9:09 -0500 1/15/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 5:22 AM -0500 1/15/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >[Reliquaries] >>Urm . . . well . . . >>GINpg160 >>"It costs 10 Essence for every point of Essence a reliquary holds." ... >This may well be a typo for _100_ Essence per point of Essence in a >reliquary -- essentially, the Essence cost to enchant, in GIN, is >supposed to make the _time_ to enchant come out roughly similiar to >the times listed in Liber Reliquarium. So it's 10 per level of >Corporeal Artifact, 30 per level of Ethereal, and IIRC, 100 for Celestial... Actually, it's not a typo, but was sucked in from the Powerstone mechanics, it appears. In the main section on artifacts, in the creation rules, it says: "They cost the same to enchant as Powerstones, but are limited to holding 6 Essence." So this needs to be fixed if we change the cost to 100 Essence. (Of course this is also inconsistent with the 10 Essence figure, which got changed by mistake during the Essence rewrite where we globally halved all the costs.) I suggest we errata this to simply: "They are also limited to holding no more than 6 Essence." >The stuff on p. GIN160, regarding stored Essence, strongly suggests >to me that reliquaries should be 100 points/level and somewhere a 0 was >eaten. It *was* intentional, but dates back to before the major Essence mechanics changes. I think setting it up to 100 is fine. That would make a reliquary cost 5cp per level, which seems reasonable. (By my normal rule of thumb for IN cp to GURPS cp, it should be 9cp/level in GURPS, but it becomes over half that, and equivalent to the normal relic cost/level, so I'm happy with it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:58:53 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) At 21:26 -0500 1/16/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >Question remains, why then, would the Essence Cost to enchant an artifact to >hold Essence for *general* use (i.e. a Reliquary) be the same as to enchant >an artifact to hold Essence which can *only* be used to fuel the Song in the >Artifact? > >Shouldn't it have a -30% (Only to fuel Song in the Artifact) Limitation or >something? and thus a lower point cost? Yes. Now add in the cost to put the Song itself into the relic, which is included in that 100 Essence/level figure. If we say that's, say, 30 Essence/level, then it all works out just fine. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:04:47 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: IN> From 666 Electronic Productions with Association with Squaresoft *Logos of Above Mentioned companies Flash on the Screen* *An FMV showing a CGI rendered Laurence Standing all noble in center of the Church of the Sword. Laurence raises his sword high and spreads his wings* The Ultimate Struggle of Good FMV *Up Close Shot of the face of a Balseraph. The shot moves out and we see the never-ending warfare of Gehenna. Ba'al cackles in glee and raises his sword* And Evil *From her Tower in the Marches Blandine gazes across the Vale her features seem vaguely Asian a tear crosses her face* A tale of love lost. *Khaild in his Camp Practically dancing winder shins eyes turned to Heaven his face filled with joy* And Faith renewed. *A nameless Malakite runs across a decaying bridge pushes a beautiful Bright Lilim to safety just as he has resigned himself to yet another Corporeal death Michael appears to save him* Of Loyalty rewarded. *Lilith hovers over a bound and gag Marc cackling enjoying the shocked and outraged look on his face.* And Betrayal *A firefight in a city the looks vaguely like Tokyo* Spanning all the Earth *Scene in the Marches Flights of Malakim Streak Across the skies into battle the fall upon a horde of Calabim in dramatic fashion* The Realms of Dream * Sweeping shot of the Eternal City Malakim bravely fighting of Demonic invaders* Even Heaven *Similar Scene in Shal Mari* And Hell And it is coming to Playsation 2 *Logo Shot* Final Fantasy: In Nomine Rated "T" for Teens *PS2 Logo* Bradley Paranial _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:25:56 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2024 - -----Original Message----- From: in_nomine-digest To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, January 18, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2024 Ok, I can see my attempt at a Heretical Djinn Band has mixed results. And I was so sure I had a hit here... *Sigh* Oh well. I still intend on using them as House Rules in my campaign, perhaps with some additions from Casca's write-up. I still like the idea of Djinn being Hunters, not Hoarders. Maybe it's just me... To change the subject, I love that MC Solaar videoclip, even if I keep getting trouble playing it. It keeps crashing on me before it ends. But what I see before that kicks serious ass. I'm mostly a fan of other french Rap Groups, especially IAM (a rebellious group from Marseille, mixing oriental and egyptian influences, sometimes with a mystical theme to their work) and Manau (a group from Bretagne with strong celtic influences in their songs.) - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:39:45 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> From 666 Electronic Productions with Association with Squaresoft At 10:04 PM -0600 01/18/01, Bradley Paranial wrote: > *Logos of Above Mentioned companies Flash on the Screen* *twitch* *twitch* *twitch* Like, I _know_ Gluttony, Greed, and the Media (and mayhaps Technology) have their insideous little talons in regards to the availability of _the box_. . . Now you're making us -want- one so much the more. . . But only if _the product_ were available. Cute. (Just remember, keep those ideas a-flowin', 'cause you're going far!) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:32:52 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re:IN> January 17, 2001 (ML) Date: 18 Jan 2001 16:53:12 -0000From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> January 17, 2001 (ML) On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:56 Maurice Lane wrote: >The Order of St. Lazarus great one, Moe! you've given me at least a few character ideas, as well as a couple plot seeds. i have a few questions for you, though... >This Catholic holy order is, on the surface, just one >of many minor orders: the brothers are all doctors, >nurses and other medical personnel. With the modern * by "brothers," do you mean they are below decons in Catholic hierarchy? which vows do they swear? [snip]* Essentially, I was trying to navigate the maze of Catholic terminology (quite a bit of which seems invented for the sole purpose of confusing everyone except the Jesuits [I _am_ a Catholic. That's why I can say that.]) to find a close enough analogue. Semimonastic, not necessarily priests but dedicated to the religious life, that sort of thing. >>Archangel of the Sword has found that Zadkiel has a >>knack for working with this group. That's what >>subordinates are _for_. > heh, sure. i can see the Order finding use by >many other Archangels than Zadkiel as well--Michael, >David, and Gabriel in particular. and let's not >forget Novalis and her declaration that undead >arewalking targets ;) I know that _I_ suggested that in one of my writeups, but is that canonical? >>research facility. The library alone contains some >>of the most comprehensive collections of necromantic >>lore > what do Dominic and Jean think of humans having >such access to diabolic lore? i recall something >about both of them thinking knowledge of the occult >and dangerous kind should be restricted so as to cut >down on the risk of humans damning themselves. not >saying this library is a bad idea--it's quite >necessary for the mission they've committed >themselves to--just that some Archangels would >have objections, and i'd like to know what you'd say >about how the Order handles such objections, if they >even know about said objections from Heaven. [snip] Dominic would be a bit leery, but then these guys _are_ mostly Soldiers and _are_ part of the Church hierarchy. That allows Dommie a measure of oversight and control. As for Jean... well, he'd probably disapprove, but it ain't his bailiwick (pardon the pun). The Order would be kept firmly unaware of any angelic disputes, of course: not good for Heaven's PR. >>PCs wishing to be Lazarines should take at least >>Medicine/3 and Knowledge/3 (the Undead): a variety of > i'd add Knowledge/2 or 3 (Catholic theology) and >Languages (Latin)/1 to that list. Good call (one of the problems with tossing this stuff off is that you can forget the obvious things sometimes). :) >>Ranged Weapons and the Corporeal Songs of Fire, >>Healing, Light and Might wouldn't be a bad idea, >>either. > good recommendations. Shields would fit right >in as well, for those who are protecting rather >than fighting--especially considering the >Zadkielconnection. True. Thanks for the feedback*. Moe *BTW, Earl, your comments on that earlier bit I did a few days ago were right on the money. (shrug) They can't _all_ be good ideas... :( ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:51:31 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> January 18, 2001 (you've noticed the drift by now, I'm sure). I'm sorry. I keep seeing the words "Conversion of St. Peter" and I think, "Into what? A living artifact?" Actually, wouldn't _that_ be a scandal. St. Peter, down on a rare visit to the Corporeal Plane, gets kidnapped by a bunch of Renegade Habbalah of Technology who stick him into a plaster statue of himself (using Vaputech Stock Plot Device #5544-5f(c))and then try to ransom him to Heaven, in exchange for the Inquisition's secret files on Jesus. A shame Heaven doesn't have any such thing, huh? Or, heck, maybe they do. Maybe Dominic's even so tired of trying to figure out precisely _what_ happened in Judea all those years ago that he figures that letting the Renegades actually have said files. It's not like there's anything useful in them, the Habbalah haven't considered the fact that Dominic can have a Cherub attune to the blessed things and track the Punishers, and besides, maybe the demons will uncover a clue. The Habbalah are, truth be told, shocked as Hell when the messengers (wonder who _that_ could be?) show up with the files: they expected at least some defiant posturing. But the (random PC/convenient NPC) Seraph sings out that Dominic agreed to the trade, and the Vaputech dissonance-o-meter isn't going off, so that's that. Miserable milksops in heaven, anyway. So, the head Habbalite gestures grandly with the aforementioned V.P.D. at the plaster statue. No effect. He does it again. Still no effect. One last time. Nada. Zip. No Saint. The Punishers look at each other, then look at their human servant/punching bag. Some quick 'interrogation' will indicate that said servant, not actually being there for the forced plasterization of St. Peter, may not have been completely sure _which_ one of the half-dozen or so statues of his Holiness he was supposed to have grabbed. Oops... Now, at this point the Habbalah are sweating (and bloody, of course, but that's another story). Lunatic Renegade demons or not, they can figure out that stealing a Saint is one thing: reneging on a deal with the Cloaked One is just _dumbass_. The PCs will no doubt have made similar calculations, substituting "having to tell Dominic that the first Pope is now adorning some matron's back yard", but keeping the dumbass bit. Guess it's time to go search some yards, gardens, rectories and houses with the PC's new friends: do I really need to tell you how to make this a nightmare for them? Made worse by the extreme tackiness of some of the places that they'll have to check out. Try not to let the Habbalah kill anyone for having bad taste. No matter how badly the PCs are tempted. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:06:57 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Heretical Djinn Band. >In the meanwhile, the UNedited document can be found at >http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_djinn.html > >Thanks to the gracious Ms. Hart (now Mrs. Somethingorother) for hosting it. >UNEDITED. > > *g* Casca, you're wrong. I edited it to append your followup post where you added the notes on the altered dissonance condition, because I thought they belonged together. The INC version _is_ unedited :) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:42:43 -0500 From: "Jamie LaFountain" Subject: IN> Pewter miniatures Can anyone help with some suggestions on decent pewter miniatures to use in an In Nomine campaign? I figure that most of the time the PCs look human so modern-era figures would do nicely. Thanks in advance. Jamie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:33:51 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Gunfighters Jo Hart wrote: > > > Noooo... TV wasn't invented until the early 20th century (whether > > the inventor was Philo T. Farnsworth or Vladimir Zworykin depends on > > which sources you refer to). > > Logie Baird. I've no idea where you got the other references from > (American revisionism strikes again I guess :) ) John Logie Baird invented a mechanical television in 1925. Philo T. Farnsworth invented an electronic television system in 1927. Vladimir K. Zworykin invented another cathode-ray tude system in 1929. There was a patent battle between RCA (who Zworykin sold his patent to) and Farnsworth that resembles something out of a bad cyberpunk novel, if you set it in the 1920s. :) Throw in that Baird's work was superceded by Farnsworth and Zworykin's, and now you know why Baird gets short shrift -- Farnsworth versus RCA is more fun for pop historians to write about. :) > Actually, the Nybbas writeup does refer to TV having been invented in > 1884, which the transmission system _was_. But it took until the early > 20th century for people to marry that to a CRT and put a working > broadcasting AND receiving system together. I think you have this backwards -- Baird was building on the work of the German Paul Nipkow (who had invented the capture and display but couldn't get enough power to transmit). - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:37:29 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Alexis (urgent question) The list is archived, so you can find it in the digest at: ftp://ftp.sjgames.com/pub/sjgames/in-nomine/digests/2001/1/1-2015.txt Thanks for the praise, btw. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:46:47 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Question about Lilith - --On Friday, January 19, 2001 12:24 AM +0000 Perry Lloyd wrote: > > > >> From: Joey Lyon >> >> Kabbalah religious folk believe Lilith came back and >> fed on the blood of Adam and Eve, thus making her the >> first vampire. >> >> Rumors abound dont they - kind of wish you could just >> call her up and ask doesnt it. > > Well, can't we? I mean, throwing in a Geas/6 helps a lot, as does > pouring in most of your Essence . . . > Call using 1-800-COLLECT and it's only a Geas/4. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("It's all about dollars and sense.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:50:53 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> From 666 Electronic Productions with Association with Squaresoft - --On Thursday, January 18, 2001 10:04 PM -0600 Bradley Paranial wrote: > > Final Fantasy: In Nomine > > Rated "T" for Teens > > *PS2 Logo* > I am SO there. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite White Mage Angel of Salvation ("Spoony Mercurians...") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:02:22 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Pewter miniatures - --On Friday, January 19, 2001 4:42 AM -0500 Jamie LaFountain wrote: > Can anyone help with some suggestions on decent pewter miniatures > to use in an In Nomine campaign? I figure that most of the time the > PCs look human so modern-era figures would do nicely. > Ral Partha (http://store.fasa.com/Shadowrun/index.asp?Level1=1113) has some modern-looking characters in pewter cast. For more blatant IN related bits, hit up their heroes and horros section (http://store.fasa.com/RalPartha/index.asp?Level1=1327). Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (The ListAngel figure: http://store.fasa.com/RalPartha/index.asp?Level1=1327&Level2=1357&Pro duct=10916) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:44:25 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> January 18, 2001 (you've noticed the drift by now, I'm sure). > Now, at this point the Habbalah are sweating (and > bloody, of course, but that's another story). Lunatic > Renegade demons or not, they can figure out that > stealing a Saint is one thing: reneging on a deal with > the Cloaked One is just _dumbass_. The PCs will no > doubt have made similar calculations, substituting > "having to tell Dominic that the first Pope is now > adorning some matron's back yard", but keeping the > dumbass bit. Oh this is rich. I love the mental image of a group of angels frantically searching the town for the -correct- statue. Just think of the news afterwards, if they got caught. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:07:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> January 18, 2001 (you've noticed the drift by now, I'm sure). Think of the by-play between the angels if some are good Laurencian/Dominican Catholics and others favor Protestantism or one of the other flavors of monotheism with a dim view of "graven images." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:41:50 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Lyon Subject: Re: IN> Question about Lilith Ah, if it were only that easy.. Okay, I know that this is going to come to a shock to many, as it did to me, but Lilith hasnt always been known to tell the truth. I tell you what, you contact her (Perry) and throw that geas in, and then you let us know what she says.. I already owe Lilith 3 level 9 geases and a level 6 geas, I certainly dont want to increase those any more than I have to 8) Serendipity, Bright Lilim of Eli - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: > > > > >From: Joey Lyon > > > >Kabbalah religious folk believe Lilith came back > and > >fed on the blood of Adam and Eve, thus making her > the > >first vampire. > > > >Rumors abound dont they - kind of wish you could > just > >call her up and ask doesnt it. > > Well, can't we? I mean, throwing in a Geas/6 helps > a lot, as does pouring > in most of your Essence . . . > > -Perry, kyriotate of flowers serving creation > > perrylloyd@hotmail.com > pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu > http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo > > "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to > do - be wrong. Do you > know that people would rather die than be wrong?" > --from A Matter For Men > by David Gerrold > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:46:29 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Lyon Subject: Re: IN> Question about Lilith Gotta love the trade spin that all of Marc's servitors put on things!! One of my "guardians" assigned to me by Eli for protection, is an Elohim of Marc - he is all about the bottom line as well. It doesnt suck that he owns a mansion and several tight cars tho. Serendipity, Bright Lilim of Eli - --- Marc Bowden wrote: > > > --On Friday, January 19, 2001 12:24 AM +0000 Perry > Lloyd > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> From: Joey Lyon > >> > >> Kabbalah religious folk believe Lilith came back > and > >> fed on the blood of Adam and Eve, thus making her > the > >> first vampire. > >> > >> Rumors abound dont they - kind of wish you could > just > >> call her up and ask doesnt it. > > > > Well, can't we? I mean, throwing in a Geas/6 > helps a lot, as does > > pouring in most of your Essence . . . > > > > Call using 1-800-COLLECT and it's only a Geas/4. > > Marc. Just Marc. > Elohite Angel of Salvation > ("It's all about dollars and sense.") __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:46:14 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) [artifacts - crossing planes] > >And for cross-genre settings? > >Still the same -- I'd generally say that "super equipment" purchased with >points by the character should default to being able to go anywhere with >the character, and that not doing so would be a limitation. Talismans >and corporeal artifacts essentially have this limitation built in to >the general costs (they're cheaper than celestial ones). > > >Well, I guess that makes it worth it to spend the extra 3 INpts to also >have > >your Ethereal Sword skill/6 be a Reliquary/1. Then, it's usuable as a > >Celestial Weapon, right? > >As a GM, I'd probably allow a corporeal or ethereal artifact become >a celestial one as a Feature, probably for a couple IN points for an >otherwise corporeal artifact, and one point for a talisman. They'd >have no special properties in the celestial realm, except to actually >*be* there. This is especially useful with corporeal artifacts, since >it allows you to move them to a different vessel as you switch >through the transient celestial form state, without having to drop them. Which, in GURPS points, would cost an additional . . . 5pts to the Ethereal plane, 8pts to the Celestial, 10pts for both? And then there's the question of the actual effects of the artifact on the other plane of existance. Does a corporeal artifact gun (celestial existance feature ON) still "fire" on the celestial plane, and if so, does it require corporeal bullet artifacts . . . It was just easier to use the Super Equipment rules. But how to rule on this in IN, I'd have to muse a bit. > >A celestial artifact, however, can. So, shouldn't it have some points > >invested in it reflecting the fact that it can exist on /multiple planes/ > >just as the character does? Like, Insubstantial? > >As I said above, I don't think this makes sense for an item you pay >character points for as "super equipment". It's really an additional >Accessibility limitation if your "gadget power" can't go everywhere you do. Gotcha. >This is a question that you should ask Kromm, actually, since it's really >a system issue, and not really specific to GURPS IN. > >>I'd have to go look at the rules in detail, which I can't right now. > >>There may indeed be a bug there somewhere -- the artifacts costing > >>section wasn't looked at in a lot of detail, generally. > >> > >>They *shouldn't* be that cheap, almost certainly. > > > >Urm . . . well . . . > >GINpg160 > >"It costs 10 Essence for every point of Essence a reliquary holds." > > > >GINpg169 > >". . . each character point "buys" 20 Essence of Enchantment." > > > >Therefore 3cp buys a Reliquary/6. :) > >It looks to me, after poking around in the draft copies, that this was >an attempt on our part to keep reliquaries very similar to powerstones. >The original value was 20 (same as a Powerstone), but got halved during >the Great Essence Rewrite. Given that reliquaries can be charged from >outside sources (which is *very* useful), unlike Powerstones, and that >Essence is generally more powerful in its uses than Fatigue, I can >see moving the value up to 100, which is more consistent with the IN >rules. Hrm . . . but Reliquaries are /much/ more valuable than powerstones, right? Since beings can only regerate 1pt day (unlike Fatigue/mana). > >GINpg160 > >"If a relic allows the /performance/ ofa Song, it may /contain/ - but not > >generate - Essence, up to the maximum amount of Essence the Song requires > >(see p. 171). Enchanting such a relic requires (Song's performance > >cost)x100 Essence, and the relic will be able to contain the minimum >amount > >of Essence needed to fuel its Song. Additional points of Essence stored, >up > >to the maxmimum the Song requires for initial casting, cost 100 Essence > >each." > >Note that this *imbues the Song into the relic*, as well as creating the >reservoir. So the cost here is really comprised of two parts: the cost >to enchant the Song, and the cost for the Essence reservoir. GURPS magic >items keep the two costs separate. Ahhh . . . I see now. Thank you for your patience. Reliquary: 100 Essence/Essence stores up to 6 Relic: (Song's performance cost)x100 Essence, +100 Essence per additional pt of storage, up to the Song maximum initial casting cost wait a minute >Shouldn't the cost of a Reliquary which can ONLY fuel a Song have a -30% >(Only to fuel Song in the Artifact) Limitation or >something? and thus a lower point cost? >Yes. Now add in the cost to put the Song itself into the relic, which >is included in that 100 Essence/level figure. If we say that's, say, >30 Essence/level, then it all works out just fine. Except that the "essence storage space" which is part of the cost of a Relic *does not generate Essence* like a normal Reliquary. Therefore the cost of a Relic with, say, Ethereal Charm, costs 100 Essence to have the Song enchanted into the Relic. It we want the Relic to also be a Reliquary, but the Essence can only fuel the song, that's 70 Essence to enchant *that* in, right? Of course, the effect would be that now our Relic has 1 Essence storage space for the Song, PLUS a reliquary that generates one Essence/day. So, we effectively have 2 Essence to fuel the Song once we move the Essence from the Reliquary into the "Essence storage space" for the Song. >[Soul damage/aging roll mechanic] > >>Don't forget that a 17 or 18 is *always* a failure, so there's always > >>a 2% chance of an attribute loss *for each of the four attributes and > >>three Power Investitures*. Multiply .98^7, and find there's a pretty > >>good chance *something* will get lost. > > > >0.98 x 7 = 6.86% > >2% x 7 = 14% > >Uh, no. The probability of *no* attribute loss is 0.98 (98%) multiplied >by itself 7 times. That turns out to be about 87%. However, the >remaining 13% includes cases where 2 or more attributes get hit. Also, I >seem to recall that a critical failure (18) on an aging roll has a more >serious effect (-2 to the attribute?), so it's actually a bit worse than >it appears from the superficial analysis. (My statistics isn't good enough >to figure the result of including that off the top of my head....) Okay. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:10:07 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Question about Lilith - --On Friday, January 19, 2001 11:46 AM -0800 Joey Lyon wrote: > Gotta love the trade spin that all of Marc's servitors > put on things!! One of my "guardians" assigned to me > by Eli for protection, is an Elohim of Marc - he is > all about the bottom line as well. It doesnt suck > that he owns a mansion and several tight cars tho. > > Serendipity, Bright Lilim of Eli If he owned a mansion and a yacht, I think I know the one you mean. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Be vewy vewy qwiet....") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:44:50 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) >[Soul damage/aging roll mechanic] >>>Don't forget that a 17 or 18 is *always* a failure, so there's always >>>a 2% chance of an attribute loss *for each of the four attributes and >>>three Power Investitures*. Multiply .98^7, and find there's a pretty >>>good chance *something* will get lost. >> >>0.98 x 7 = 6.86% >>2% x 7 = 14% > >Uh, no. The probability of *no* attribute loss is 0.98 (98%) multiplied >by itself 7 times. That turns out to be about 87%. However, the >remaining 13% includes cases where 2 or more attributes get hit. Also, I >seem to recall that a critical failure (18) on an aging roll has a more >serious effect (-2 to the attribute?), so it's actually a bit worse than >it appears from the superficial analysis. (My statistics isn't good enough >to figure the result of including that off the top of my head....) > > >---Walter The description says a 17 or an 18 causes two points of loss. So, if you'd like the (insanely complete -_^ ) breakdown for a being with Will 16 or higher: Probability of: No attribute loss: 87.74% 1 attribute loses 2: 11.59% 2 attributes lose 2: 00.66% 3 attributes lose 2: 00.02% 4 or more lose 2: <0.01% So, for a single round of celestial aging, the expected loss of attribute points for a being with Will 16 or higher is about .259. The most useful interpretation of this result is that he should expect to lose 2 points from one or more attributes about every eight rounds of celestial aging. William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:20:43 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: IN> Artifact Costs Okay, something that first struck me many years ago when I read through the In Nomine rule book is why would anyone in their right mind actually want most artifacts. Corporeal artifacts can be handy, if you need a particular item a lot, and there's no other way to do have equipment bonded to you, so I have no beef with them. Talismans, on the other hand, don't exactly seem like a wise investment. Why pay twice as much for a skill that I can never improve and is locked into an item that can be stolen or destroyed? The only benefits here are that they can function as ethereal weapons, which can come in handy if you poke about the Marches, and that it can stack with an already existing high skill. (But, most Celestials have obscenely high stats, so a skill at level six probably grants you automatic success and then some.) Then, there's Relics, where you pay triple cost for a song that you can't improve, and can again be stolen or destroyed. The only ones worth making are those that don't duplicate the ability of any Song. Reliquaries, on the other hand, are quite useful, but the point cost seems a little odd. A Reliquary/1 is great--extra essence regeneration! But, additional levels cost just as much, and only grant essence storage, not regeneration. The fact is that under the point system, six Reliquary/1s cost as much as a Reliquary/6, and the only thing keeping you from taking them is the fact that your GM isn't insane and will squish such munchkinism. Granted, any point system will most certainly have loopholes that can be abused, but I think they should be a little harder to abuse. And, while I would certainly use an artifact that I found, there seems to be no incentive for me to blow character points on the actual creation of almost any artifact, as I can get something better cheaper. Overall, I feel this is something that should be addressed. Perhaps we could cobble together a saner artifact point system for use as house rules, and maybe lobby for their adoption in the second edition, when such a beast finally sees light of day... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:00:31 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine (feedback 2) [attribute loss] >The description says a 17 or an 18 causes two points of loss. So, if you'd >like the (insanely complete -_^ ) breakdown for a being with Will 16 or >higher: > >Probability of: >No attribute loss: 87.74% >1 attribute loses 2: 11.59% >2 attributes lose 2: 00.66% >3 attributes lose 2: 00.02% >4 or more lose 2: <0.01% > >So, for a single round of celestial aging, the expected loss of attribute >points for a being with Will 16 or higher is about .259. The most useful >interpretation of this result is that he should expect to lose 2 points >from one or more attributes about every eight rounds of celestial aging. > >William Ah-ha! Thank you. And since for my players Will and Perception are two seperate attributes, they kinda do stand a chance of losing something sometime. Though, rarely. Still, our Lilim of Yves /is/ a celestial combat monster in GIN (Will 18, Perception 26, baby!) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:11:44 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Artifact Costs [artifacts] And, while I would certainly use an >artifact that I found, there seems to be no incentive for me to blow >character points on the actual creation of almost any artifact, as I >can get something better cheaper. Overall, I feel this is something >that should be addressed. Perhaps we could cobble together a saner >artifact point system for use as house rules, and maybe lobby for >their adoption in the second edition, when such a beast finally sees >light of day... Thought - Initial point cost for artifacts should be high. Each additional level is relatively cheap. Currently, a Reliquary is, what, 3pts level? Reliquary/6 costs 18 points. Raise initial cost for a Reliquary to 6pts, levels 2-4 cost 2pts a piece, levels 5-6 cost a point a piece. A Reliquary/3 is now 10pts A Reliquary/6 is now 14pts Thoughts? Could just be 6pts initial cost, then 2pts per Essence stored after that. Reliquary/3 => 10pts, Reliquary/6 => 16pts eh? - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2025 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.