From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jan 25 22:24:14 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01538 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:24:14 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA13957 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:25:46 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:25:46 -0600 Message-Id: <200101260425.WAA13957@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2032 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2032 In this digest: Re: IN> Utter fluff that makes me question my sanity Re: IN> Utter fluff that makes me question my sanity IN> Angels are *supposed* to be able to sing ... IN> Stupid Entropy Trick Re: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence RE: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick Re: IN> Angels are *supposed* to be able to sing ... Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> Angels are *supposed* to be able to sing ... Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick IN> A Memo from the Desk of Sir Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence IN> Dominic in an odd plan [Humor] Re: IN> Ess-Ee-Ex! Re: IN> A Memo from the Desk of Sir Laurence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:52:55 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Utter fluff that makes me question my sanity At 10:50 AM -0600 01/25/01, Prodigal wrote: > The second, according to the original poster, was that they can't sing. > > Although my Malakite of Eli in the Falling Stars game would tend to > disagree... ;;;) Uh. . . She _can't_ sing. Fold paper into instruments of mass destruction; have an opinion of what is considered 'tasteful' music; Yes. Sing? No. . . The Cherub of War though. . . > (Although the memory of that really painful scene when Angel was trying to > sing "Mandy" in a bar full of demons now refuses to go away...) *twitch-twitch* There is not enough solvants in the Symphony that will ever erase that image. Content? Oh yeah. . . Uhmn. . . Instead of the Eighth Virtue, why not a Karaoke night in the Seven Deadly Sins? Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:09:55 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Utter fluff that makes me question my sanity From: "Tafka J." > > > Uh. . . She _can't_ sing. Fold paper into instruments of mass > destruction; have an opinion of what is considered 'tasteful' music; Yes. > > Sing? No. . . Never said she could sing, just that she would disagree about whether Malakim in general could. She's a creationcer, so she's got to know at least *ONE* who can... (Although she could always just fold paper into something that would persuade people to tell her that she can sing, if she gets in a mood...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:23:27 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Angels are *supposed* to be able to sing ... All my characters can sing, including the Malakite of War. If nothing else, it enables them to use the Humming skill if necessary. My Seraph of War wants to be a Trisagionist, but Michael sent her to earth to get "field experience" first. She's so fond of music that if she's listening to something she really likes, she has to make a Will roll to notice *anything* else, including a squad of demons or the building burning down. (Yes, I'm afraid this characteristic *is* drawn from life.) Janet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:23:46 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick Whilst reading the Liber Canticorum I came upon an interesting passage under the Corporeal Song of Entropy. Note that there is a difference between aging and growing; an artificially aged tree turns into an old, short tree, not a giant oak." It struck me that this works both ways. The growth process cannot be reversed with the Song either. To affect growth AND aging requires the Ofanite of Creation Attunement. So what if you reduced someone to the "age" of a newly fertilized zygote? You'd get a fully grown human at the prime of life, who wouldn't even begin to show signs of aging for at least 30 years! Neat, huh? Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:50:00 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick > So what if you reduced someone to the "age" of a newly fertilized >zygote? You'd get a fully grown human at the prime of life, who >wouldn't even begin to show signs of aging for at least 30 years! > Neat, huh? Well if I'm interpreting this correctly each cell would be a zygote. That would mean that the cells couldn't live on their own. So you could implant as many as them as possible into surrogate mothers to keep them alive, and have clones. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:52:05 -0800 From: "Uria Lomvia" Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence >I would remind the Archangels of the Sword and War that Opinions >remain that, and Truth cannot be determined at this time. > >In Service to Heaven, > >Dominic >Archangel of Judgement Absolutely brilliant! Our times are not very charitable to the views and personalities of Dominic and Laurence. I found these two letters, sympathetic to these archangels, to be more helpful in understanding them than anything else I've read. Uria Lomvia Seneschal of Prince Leopold's Island Great Gift Idea! FREE cell phone, internet ready at Lycos Marketplace http://www.inphonic.lycos.com/redirect.asp?referringpage=www.lycosd1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:57:12 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: RE: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick From: Tim Groth [mailto:Timothy.Groth@colorado.edu] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 12:50 PM > So what if you reduced someone to the "age" of a newly fertilized >zygote? You'd get a fully grown human at the prime of life, who >wouldn't even begin to show signs of aging for at least 30 years! > Neat, huh? Well if I'm interpreting this correctly each cell would be a zygote. That would mean that the cells couldn't live on their own. So you could implant as many as them as possible into surrogate mothers to keep them alive, and have clones. - --- I see a couple of ways of interpreting this one. 1/ Every cell is a zygote. Implant and clone at will. 2/ Every cell is the age of a zygote. How quickly do zygote cells divide/grow ? Imagine a 30 years old who had the growth rate of a newborn/unborn baby... 3/ 30 year old who wont age for another 30 years (waiting for the age of their cells to catch up to their apparent age). GM's call, of course .... option 2 sounds most appropriate to me. ^C (my $.02 ... YMMV) CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify AMCOR immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of AMCOR. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:04:07 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Angels are *supposed* to be able to sing ... At 1:23 AM -0500 1/26/01, Janet Anderson wrote: >She's so fond of music that if she's listening to something she >really likes, she has to make a Will roll to notice *anything* else, >including a squad of demons or the building burning down. > >(Yes, I'm afraid this characteristic *is* drawn from life.) How do you know? I have yet to have a squad of demons show up to burn a building down around me. But then, I do come from a small town. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:11:13 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence {A letter comes into the Daily Revelation, typed on a word-processor and printed on a laser printer.} I have read the opinions batted about by many of you, and I must say that I am disappointed. It has been nearly fifteen centuries since the misguided Crusade of Purity, and yet no clear consensus has been reached. Have we ever understood the reasons behind Uriel's insanity? No. Have we ever formally condemned the madness that was the Crusade? No. Have we ever even acknowledged our role in the genocide of countless innocents? No, not at all. Now I know that I am supposed to be impartial, but I must speak on this subject. Why is it that we have this argument to this day? Uriel's actions were clearly in the wrong. Even by objective standards, the slaughter of the Etherals cannot be justified save by stretching the imagination to unbelievable lengths. Laurence's opinions in this matter have been tainted by his service to the now-departed Archangel of Purity. How can one possibly conclude to massacre entire races of being based on what they *potenially* may do. No one save God and possibly Yves may know the future. Such justifications have been the excuses of many a mortal tyrant. We are angels. We are *supposed* to be better than this, or so I have always been led to believe. That is why Judgement gathers all facts before pronouncing sentence, or why Children exists to protect the young. From my own personal standpoint, the slaughter (for I cannot dignify it as a true Crusade), was the loss of potenial worlds of knowledge about the nature of Ethereals and how they function in their natural habitats. The slaughter caused what it sought to prevent, for, quite logically, the Ethereals who survived turned to the only one who offered salvation: the Princess of Nightmares. Thus, our ideals were betrayed and thus our friends became our enemies, by our own hands. If I ever needed a clear-cut reason for my antipathy towards the War faction, the so-called Crusade would provide ammunition for the rest of Eternity. In short, I call once more for a full review of the shameful misdeeds of Uriel's madness, a full Judgement, formal acknowledgement of Heaven's crime and a full-hearted attempt at reconciliation with the Ethereals. This is the only way to expiate our own sin. Objectively yours, Jean, Archangel of Lightning." ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:20:50 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Angels are *supposed* to be able to sing ... >>(Yes, I'm afraid this characteristic *is* drawn from life.) > >How do you know? I have yet to have a squad of demons show up to burn >a building down around me. But then, I do come from a small town. > Perhaps I should have been more specific. People who know me tell me that this characteristic is drawn from *my* life. Janet Anderson (Roll at - 2 for music, -3 for reading) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:42:16 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence > clearly in the wrong. Even by objective standards, the slaughter of the > Etherals cannot be justified save by stretching the imagination to > unbelievable lengths. Laurence's opinions in this matter have been > Jean, Archangel of Lightning. Hrm. Nice story... ...but if there's anyone who could justify the Purity Crusade, I believe it'd be Jean. - ------- "Why does this council refrain from supporting Uriel when the facts are so clear? Our calculations demonstrate that the Ethereals have roughly an 61.97% chance of contributing to pushing humanity towards their fate -- plus or minus 4%. Given these data, Heaven would be best served by preparing for the inevitable conflict with the Ethereals. Striking first gives us nearly a 99.22% chance of success. Waiting while we bicker reduces these odds considerably. [ loud dissent while Jean is drowned out ] "While I realize the reasoning behind accusing me of being a lackey of Uriel's, understand that I do not wish him to be the leader of this expedition. Allowing the Archangel of Purity to launch the crusade would have a 73.99% chance of confusing and alienating future students of said crusade..." Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:53:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Entropy Trick - --- Tim Groth wrote: > > So what if you reduced someone to the "age" of a newly > fertilized > >zygote? You'd get a fully grown human at the prime of life, > who > >wouldn't even begin to show signs of aging for at least 30 > years! Neat, huh? Not if you consider that the human immune system doesn't develop fully until quite some time after birth. That person may be young, but he or she would be dangerously low on antibodies. Of course, the irony of saving a person from death by old age only to have them die of pneumonia would certainly appeal to Kobal... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "If you want someone to take off their armor, you must first put down your sword." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:57:26 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> A Memo from the Desk of Sir Laurence [Important Report! Moments before this issue of the Daily Revelation was put to print, a Reliever of the Sword brought a copy of this Memo, straight from Archangel Laurence, Commander of the Host...] Memo from the Desk of Sir Laurence. I would like to apologize to the Host for the Chaos my missive has sparked. I had only sought to deliver my part of the story, and attempt to defend the actions of my Lord Uriel, who's been far too Demonized for his actions. Many even go as far to claim he'd have been the first Malakite to fall, had he been allowed to continue. Before I go on with the intention of this message, I must correct this misconception. My Lord Uriel was never in danger of Falling. But he was in danger of Disonnance and Discord... Which was hurting him greatly. Perhaps it was the Damage he'd suffered from his battle with Beelzebub, the late Prince of Corruption, but now, in retrospect, I realize my lord Uriel's judgement was gravely damaged by Disonnance, driving him to lash out at the Ethereals, who's only crime was of not being a part of Heaven. Still, the fact that God chose to call him back to the Higher Heavens to rest and heal, rather then cast him out, should cause us to consider that perhaps if Uriel was amongst us now, he would surely as regret his past actions as much as I do now. Most of you reading this will realize that the above statement is a complete turn-around from my above statement. And it is. Following many conversations with my fellow Archangels, which include, in that order, an ear-drumming from Michael about making tactical mistakes, a stern lecture from Dominic about making public statements which would spread disorder amongst the Host, a blunt talking-to from David about harming the Unity of the Host and a short chat with Novalis. That last meeting alone was enough to induce great levels of guilt from me... But the visitation that has made me consider the consequences of the Purity Crusade was a short visit by Lady Blandine herself. She said nothing, simply looking me in the eyes for a moment, before leaving again. But all I could see in those eyes were regret and pain. The pain I saw in her eyes said more then any words could. Of all the Archangels, Lady Blandine is perhaps the one of us who does more then any other to try and improve the lot of the Mortals through her work of preserving Dreams. And the Purity Crusade nearly destroyed that... I can no longer stand looking at myself in mirrors anymore... The stain that is the Purity Crusade hangs on me like a shadow. ...I must do something to redeem myself, lest I fear going as mad as my Lord Uriel did before me. For this, I must take a leave of Absence from Heaven, and from my duties as Commander of the Host. (Dominic, before you begin a Hunt for me, I've already filed the proper forms for a Leave and had them sent to your office. They should already be processed by the time you read this.) I do not, however, intend to leave my position empty in case of Hellish activity. As my last Executive Order from my desk as Commander of the Host, I appoint Archangel Michael as Acting Commander of the Armies of God assigned to Earthly missions (Yes Michael, this means you can't back off from the job until I return) I also appoint Archangel Dominic as Acting Commander of the Armies of God assigned to Internal Security. Neither of you are to interefere with one another's actions until this time when I return to Heaven, and relieve you of your duties. Perhaps being forced to work together for a time will help alleviate the tension between you two. Novalis, David, I instruct you to keep the peace between those two and help them operate as a unit until my Return. Let me assure you, I am not abandonning my position as Archangel or Commander of the Host, nor do I intend to disappear from Circulation as Eli did before me. I simply cannot, in good conscience, continue with the work God entrusted in me until I accomplish this Quest... [By the time we got this memo, copies of it had already been given to all the Archangels. Responses ranged from Archangel Jean's quiet consternation to Michael's comments, unfortunetly unprintable here. While not a Hunt, a search for Archangel Laurence was started, until a few of the guards at Archangel Blandine's Towers revealed that Sir Laurence had gone through the Tower, heading out into the Marches, alone. At this time, the staff here at Daily Revelations can only ponder at Laurence's goals and future actions. We can only pray for his quick and safe return, and wish him Godspeed.] Coming Soon... A Continuation and a Campaign Seed... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:10:30 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence >...but if there's anyone who could justify the Purity Crusade, I believe >it'd be Jean. > [snip suggestion] Gotta disagree on this one. If there was any Archangel who would be concerned with external evidence of the inner workings of the human mind, it would be Jean, perhaps right after Blandine. And re: the more primal elements of Jean's Word, while Lightning can be highly destructive and there are certainly Ethereals who'd like to usurp control of the Bolts, like Zeus, I can't see Jean supporting a wholehearted effort to destroy *anything* completely, save Hell. I mean, scientists still maintain cryo-frozen samples of human smallpox in order to do research on them. There's debate about whether the species should be destroyed, but once it is, it can't be recovered. >Ben William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:24:49 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence - ---- Original Message ----- From: "Charles E Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence [The Daily Revelation's response to Jean's letter] I know I'm busier than ever now that I'm in acting command of all corporeal ops, but since one of the responsibilties of that command is keeping things straight between us Seraphim Council members I need to make another comment. 'Scuse any typos, I'm writing fast as I can between emergency planning sessions. > I have read the opinions batted about by many of you, and I must say > that I am disappointed. It has been nearly fifteen centuries since the > misguided Crusade of Purity, and yet no clear consensus has been reached. > Have we ever understood the reasons behind Uriel's insanity? No. Have we > ever formally condemned the madness that was the Crusade? No. Have we > ever even acknowledged our role in the genocide of countless innocents? > No, not at all. Speak for yourself. I've hit every single item on your list, except for understanding Uriel's motives. > Now I know that I am supposed to be impartial, Actually, I'd thought that you were supposed to be *objective*. Which doesn't prevent you from picking sides, it just prevents you from picking sides for non-objective reasons. Impartial is when you can't pick sides at all, right? > but I must speak on this subject. Feel free, all the rest of us are. > Why is it that we have this argument to this day? Uriel's actions were > clearly in the wrong. Agreed! > Even by objective standards, the slaughter of the > Etherals cannot be justified save by stretching the imagination to > unbelievable lengths. Laurence's opinions in this matter have been > tainted by his service to the now-departed Archangel of Purity. Hey ease up on him, chewing him out is *my* job. And of *course* Laurence is "tainted" by his service to Purity, if you consider emotion a taint! We're only talking about his *father*, after all... .... oh, that's right, I'm talking to an Elohite here. > How can one possibly conclude to massacre entire races of being based > on what they *potenially* may do. Simple. You CAN'T! Didn't I just get finished saying that? Do some of that data collection you do and check the back issues! > No one save God and possibly Yves may know the > future. Such justifications have been the excuses of many a mortal > tyrant. We are angels. We are *supposed* to be better than this, or so I > have always been led to believe. So far, I've been with you 100% all along. Which only makes the ending of your letter more incomprehensible to me. > That is why Judgement gathers all facts > before pronouncing sentence, or why Children exists to protect the young. Or why the wise Warrior exercises discretion in his target selection and gathers sufficient prebattle intelligence with which to make informed decisions... it's a universal concept that applies to *any* field of endeavor. Know what the heck you're doing and why before you do it and know what the consequences will be. > From my own personal standpoint, the slaughter (for I cannot dignify it > as a true Crusade), Speaking as an expert on the topic, "slaughter" is just about right. Or "massacre". Or what I called it, "ethnic cleansing". > was the loss of potenial worlds of knowledge about > the nature of Ethereals and how they function in their natural habitats. > The slaughter caused what it sought to prevent, for, quite logically, the > Ethereals who survived turned to the only one who offered salvation: the > Princess of Nightmares. Sadly, that's right. Give a desperate being only one clear line of retreat from certain death, where else is it going to go? > Thus, our ideals were betrayed and thus our > friends became our enemies, by our own hands. If I ever needed a > clear-cut reason for my antipathy towards the War faction, the so-called > Crusade would provide ammunition for the rest of Eternity. And *this* is the confusing part. Like they say down on Earth, WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT, OVER?!? How the [bleep] can you use the Purity Crusade as a 'clear-cut reason' for your "antipathy to the War faction", when not even the majority of the War faction thought it was a good idea?!? Since when did I stop being the big hitter of the War faction? And since when did I *ever* start saying that the Purity Crusade was a bright idea? The answers are, *objectively* speaking, never and never! Objectively speaking, your logic dropped a big one here 'cause you messed up on one of your starting premises -- specifically, the premise that the War faction was anywhere near unanimous on the Purity Crusade topic at all, much less unanimous in its favor. > In short, I call once more for a full review of the shameful misdeeds of Uriel's > madness, a full Judgement, formal acknowledgement of Heaven's crime and a > full-hearted attempt at reconciliation with the Ethereals. I never thought I'd be saying this, *ever*, but Judgement *is* Dominic's business, not yours. He's convinced me of that recently, at least partly. Maybe someday somebody will dig out and post those interoffice memos. Probably after the Seventh Trumpet. And given that the two key witnesses we'd need to hear from to *really* clear up the Purity Crusade once and for all are Uriel and our Lord himself... until you can tell Dominic where to deliver the subpoena, he's going to have to keep telling to you wait, understand? Take a deep breath, Jean, you actually *are* starting to get emotional on this one. You wouldn't have made those logic errors (when *I* can find logical errors in *your* work, something is *really* out of whack) if you hadn't. > This is the only way to expiate our own sin. Actually, wouldn't inviting some Ethereals back into the fold -- or at least into some *officially sanctioned* friendly cooperation/association with us -- be another way to start making up? If you want to atone for bombing the wrong area, admitting that you f**ked up is part one, but going in with the relief efforts and defending the surviving victims from the exploiting bastards you abandoned 'em two is part two. Hrm. Now that I'm Acting Commander of all Earthside Operations, I might have to get together with Blandine and see what I can do about that. Since Laurence didn't remember to officially designate anybody as Acting Commander of the Armies of God assigned to Ethereal missions, I'm going to proceed on the basis that Blandine's got that job unless directed otherwise by the Seraphim Council or Above. Yours in hoping we can get some work done around here without having to nit-pick each other every ten damned minutes, Archangel Michael, Acting Commander of the Armies of God assigned to Earthly missions ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:28:39 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> An Open Letter from Laurence The following Letter was delivered anonymously to the Daily Revelation at an undetermined time. The staff wishes to emphasize that none of its members had in any way first hand contact with the author. We are printing the letter in its entirety because it is our job to reveal all perspectives, and because the fact that we recieved it at all is newsworthy in itself. Greetings and salutations denizens of Heaven, I don't have a subscription to this illustrious publication, but try to pick up a copy anytime I can. Being an expatriate of the Blessed Realm, I still try to keep up with current events since the events in Heaven can have great impact on those on Earth. As above, so below, as they say. Normally, I usually am content to read and Watch, but this recent dialog on the Purity Crusade has perked my interest enough that I actually decided to take the effort necessary to send a response, in order to share another perspective. One of the few perks about being part of an Outcast Choir is that one really doesn't have to worry that much about the Divine Inquisition. If you keep your nose clean, avoid Falling, and other egregious abuses, they really can't touch you. They'v done practically the worst thing they could do with us already, so they really can't give us a worse punishment unless we step over certain lines. And I don't step over those lines. So I feel perfectly free to share my forthright and honest opinion on the matter. Judgement can't soul kill me for expressing my opinion. The punishment wouldn't fit the crime. Let it be known now that the words I put down here are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my choirmates. In my personal opinion, the Purity Crusade was perhaps the stupidest, most shortsighted decision in the history of the War. And yes, I'm including the Outcasting of myself and my breathren among the things being compared. Laurence stated that some ethereals were some of the most abusive, sinful, and monsterous creatures in the Symphony. And he is right. Some were. Where Purity was wrong, as mentioned by so many other respondents, was in the assumption that all ethereals shared of that basic nature. Yes they wanted essence, and some of them weren't too scrupulous about how they got it. But some ethereals were brave, valiant, and noble, exhibiting virtues which should be the aspiration of any angel. But blinded by his Word, Uriel sought to paint them all in the same shade. One thing about us the Grigori that even Dominic has to agree with is the fact that we know humans. We understand human nature in a way even Mercurians can't grasp. And from such a perspective, I have to say that if Uriel was justified in wiping the ethereals out due to their qualities, then he should have done the same to Humanity, for they share in those qualities. Because the ethereals were, and are, nothing but Humanity writ large, in all its contradictory glory. Man is capable of sinking to vile depths to which even demons shudder to descend to, and of rising to such noble heights that even the "Choir Most Holy" dare not dream of aspiring to. Such is the nature of Man, and what are ethereals but the dreams and hopes, fears and forboddings, heights and depths of Humanity shaped into sentient beings? They are the product of their parentage. To condemn them as a species and not judge them as individuals would be as wrong as doing the same to Humanity itself. By condemning the ethereals as a group, and slaughtering them en masse, Purity was guilty of bad Judgement. And it is even isn't their job to Judge. I may surprise readers with my next words. Uriel should have followed Dominic's practice, and punished according to the crime committed. Shocking coming from a Grigori, isn't it? Never the less, it's the Truth. But instead, due to his zeal, Uriel chose to purify the Marches, driving the just and unjust into the waiting and eager arms of Hell. I'll say this much. If the same had been done to angels or humans, the question of his error would not be in doubt. Through his actions, he visited violence and death on those who did no wrong as well as those who did. He also did grevious harm to the cause of Heaven, alienating those among the ethereals who could have been allies of Heaven. Sure, the ethereals weren't paragons of virtue for the most part. Neither are most humans, yet Heaven still pulls Soldiers and Saints from its ranks. As the creations of humanity, the ethereals share the virtues and flaws of their creators. If Heaven could find allies among Humanity, surely it could have found some among the ethereals. If there were some whose virtues were found wanting, couldn't they have been bolstered, as angels have done time and time again with so many imperfect (and who but the Most High is perfect?) humans? On a final note, let me leave you with this thought. God, creator and arbiter of all, created the Marches with the potential for ethereals to be born there. Has anyone considered the possibility that in calling the Purity Crusade, Uriel was interfering with God's plan for Humanity? And that was why he was called to the Higher Heavens? After all, if God didn't want ethereals to exist, why would he give Humanity the power to create them? Maybe God made them possible for a reason we have yet to fathom. Ponder on that. Yours most sincerely, Uatu The Watcher Outcast Grigori of Destiny Angel of Divine Guidance (or as more colloquially translated, Good Advice) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:29:19 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dominic in an odd plan [Humor] (A while back some one did a post similar to this and I had my own version cooking for awhile. Enjoy) Laurence stood before Dominic along with David trembling with outrage and only Laurence's awesome faith and David's overwhelming self control kept their servitors and themselves from launching at the Hyena of Heaven as he made his bold pronouncement....one that would forever render him a pariah in Heaven they were sure...they hoped. "Archangels Laurence and David you and you entire Choir have been found guilty of the most heinous crime imaginable in defying the will of god by lacking free will. Your inability to Fall some would say is testament to your faith and purity but ours is a God of compassion and mercy and your endless butcerhing across continent after continent, age after age, with no remorse shows not the actions of angels but as far as one can be without falling entirely." Dominic's words made no sense for they were the very type that had led him against Novalis, Eli, and the other members of the Peace faction so repeatably. It was unbelievable. "Thus your punishment is that of our God's unto you that you must learn truly why you cannot fall on the Earth and are condemned to learn mercy, humility, and most of all temperance. You are found guilty one and all of the Sin of Wrath and Pride and be it known that as outcasts no angel is to interact with you on pain of censure and possible expulsion him. May God have mercy on you all." Laurence surveyed the now much smaller Seraphim council and looked at Eli, Novalis, Blandine...beutiful Blandine, Christopher and the others who had voted against them. Zadkiel and Khalid had both voted streneously against this measure but once Michael had cast his lot behind Dominic's action any support the War faction had for the accused dried up like the flood after the fortieth day. "Come brother...we are not wanted here...and have a mission to complete." David spoke staring as well at Michael who merely watched back as Yves was reading some tome, having abstained from voting "Yes a mission." *** Dominic is a crafty old bugger. While rumors have abounded for years that he was outcasting the Grigori for reasons different than commonly ascribed (why send the Fox into the henhouse if he's already eaten chickens so to speak), few realize that he deliberately intended the Grigori to mate with humans and become one with them in order that bridges might be formed between man and angelic kind. Also their outcasting has resulted in them learning to not hold themselves up humanity as angels but live amongst them and share in their pain. All in all a rousing sucess for Dominic. Currently Dommy baby has his own plan that he's shared with Michael and to his surprise was accepted after careful consideration of it. Not a week went by when one of the Children of Uriel (as Dominic referred to all Malakim in private as) smote some mortal who may or may not have deserved it or otherwise impeded diabolic activity in a way that was rather heavy in collateral damage. Dominic understood that Malakim believed themselves to be not only above humans but above other angels. The Purity Crusade alone reflected Dominic's deepest concern about the Malakim that in order to "save" the world from sin a Malakim might destroy it utterly or work to that effect with no concern his actions were against god or his oaths. Thus he has outcasted them with enough support in the Seraphim council but barely. Dominic also notes that there is another reason why he has outcasted the Malakim than for their own good....Hell still cannot invade Heaven and now have an entire choir of the most dangerous angels in Heaven completely under the command of other most dangerous angels in Heaven who will from this point on only create more most dangerous angels in heaven. All in all he's fairly sure that Hell is going to have a fairly bad eternity from this point til Armageddon. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:11:32 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: Re: IN> Ess-Ee-Ex! Actually to understand the purposes of the rites I think you have to get into the Archangel's frame of mind. I'm in a good frame of mind because I just created the World of Andre. 1> Spend half an hour performing sexual acts Andrephalus wants basically to encourage his servitors and those they have sex with a lesser extent to appreciate the power of immediate sexual gratification. The sexual acts can be err....you know any number of the things your thinking as you read that word. If you don't just read the Starr report or other filty rag. they don't need to be consensual just so long as you do them. However they do encourage hosts usually to want speedy entirely selfish sex. 2> Spend an hour having consensual sex Eli's rite is to allow a angel who is having sex with a fellow angel, saint, ethereal, or human to learn to appreciate the power of the feeling humans get when they make love. The act god used for the creation of the ultimate thing Eli cherishes most-the human soul. It also encourages humans to enjoy the sensual acts and the joy they bring. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:12:25 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A Memo from the Desk of Sir Laurence [Daily Revelation. By now you know the drill.] Having been placed in a position of military authority, I find myself dangerously close to Word-conflict, which necessitates my acting before there is difficulty. Judgement must always be applied to itself as rigorously or moreso than any other. Therefore, as Acting General of the Host in charge of internal security, I am officially requisitioning assistance to ensure the proper conduct and role of said position in light of my duties assigned by the Lord, which may not be set down by anyone's command - -- even the Commander-General. Therefore, effective immediately I am naming Novalis, Archangel of Flowers, Heavenly Director of Security subordinate to me, until such time as the Commander-General reclaims the position given to him by the Lord. I realize this may come as a significant surprise, but after considering all possible candidates for such a position (most notably Zadkiel) it has occured to me that Novalis's predisposition for peace, including attunements that facilitate this philosophy, is an excellent trait in a security director charged with keeping said peace. Therefore, in such matters she may speak with my military authority unless otherwise directed by me. As she will no longer be available to mediate responsibilities between the Firstborn's operation and Internal Security, I would suggest (pending Michael's approval) that Marc, Archangel of Trade, be appointed to this role to assist the Archangel of Stone. I do recognize the circumstances between Marc and David are not as we might hope. However, I feel confident they will be able to work together, even as the Firstborn and I will be able to work together. I also am declaring my formal intent to nominate Blandine to a comparable rank in the Marches before the Seraphim Council. After Novalis has assumed her duties as Director of Security, I shall concentrate my military activities on preparedness, which should provide ample time for the administration of and participation in the continuing mission of the Divine Inquisition. Please direct inquiries or questions to my Chief of Staff and her organization. Dominic Archangel of Judgement - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2032 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.