From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Feb 9 00:55:11 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18723 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:55:11 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA30205 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:57:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:57:49 -0600 Message-Id: <200102090657.AAA30205@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2051 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, February 9 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2051 In this digest: Re: IN> Healing question Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? IN> Happy Tu B'Shevat! IN> Songs of Terrain Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Medieval Jean IN> INcyclopedia? Re: IN> Medieval Jean Re: IN> Medieval Jean IN> Thoughts on Hardcore Re: IN> INcyclopedia? Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Thoughts on Hardcore Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Thoughts on Hardcore Re: IN> INcyclopedia? RE: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Healing question Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) IN> Angels in the Architecture Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) IN> Discord: Floating Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? Re: IN> Suggestions for WWII game. Re: IN> February 7, 2001 (ML) IN> LEGION Re: IN> Medieval Jean Re: IN> Healing question Re: IN> Healing question Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? Re: IN> LEGION Re: IN> Discord: Floating Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? Re: IN> Suggestions for WWII game. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 19:07:57 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Healing question "William J. Keith" wrote: > Reattach severed limbs on a critical success, sayeth G:IN; this is barely> more likely than a favorable Intervention. You could say "Success with CD> of 6" is close enough. As for regeneration, a similar Intervention or crit> might be reasonable. The Liber Canticorum is more specific, IIRC. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 19:09:24 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? Charles Phipps wrote: > One of the more interesting questions posed is that the Grigori as the most > close to the human form are almost indistinguishable from humans in mindset > and this led me to a rather fascinating deduction as to why we never have > seen a Fallen form of the Grigori....despite the fact that the Nephilim are > huge monstrous murderous beings who frankly would fit in well amongst the > hosts of Haagenti, Andrephalus, Baal, and Belial. According to G:IN, Fallen Grigori become Stalkers. I may write them up for IN someday too (except that I hate the concept). - -David ------------------------------ Date: 8 Feb 2001 17:48:38 -0800 From: Casca Subject: IN> Happy Tu B'Shevat! In honor of Jewish Arbor Day, I present two attunements for Flowers. Bloom! (with apologies to Principia Discordia) By spending Essence, the angel may render a firearm inoperative: a flower blooms from the barrel, roots entwined throughout the firing mechanism. Only completely stripping and cleaning the gun will return it to firing status; simply clearing the breech is insufficient. The Essence required for this attunement is variable. To figure its cost, take the Power of the weapon and divide by two. That is the Essence needed to render the gun inoperable. Theoretically, this attunement may be used on any weapon with a muzzle. Practically, there is an upper limit at which the Essence cost becomes prohibitive. Anything man-portable (approximately an M-60 in size) may be affected normally; larger weapons, such as .50 machineguns, anti-aircraft cannons and field artillery typically require an Essence output beyond the capacity of the angel. As an additional ability, an angel may use this attunement to encourage growth in plant life. Treat as either a Song of Corporeal Healing or Entropy, as appropriate, with the angel’s Ethereal Forces serving as the CD. This use costs no Essence and generates no Disturbance. Leavesdropping An angel of Flowers with this attunement may cast her perceptions through a living flower to a range of her Ethereal Forces in tens of meters. Only one type of plant may be so monitored, and it *must* be of a species that blooms! Freshly cut flowers will suffice, but the attunement will work only so long as they are alive; perception penalties may be assessed as withering occurs. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:58:43 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Songs of Terrain - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > > That said, anybody got ideas for the Ethereal and > >Celestial versions? > > ...and that's the other. Song of Stone pretty much > handles most neat stuff to do with rocks. Feel free > to prove me wrong, of course. :) Delay notwithstanding, you really should no better than to say such stuff to me... Terrain A Servitor of David recently discovered these Songs and promptly received a Distinction. The Songs of Terrain prove that Celestials can have fun with geography. Corporeal - see Moe's post about Numinous Corpus: Geographical Features. Ethereal - this is the most reliable way for non-Superiors to detect the supernatural features of an area. This Song grants the player mystic sight that detects such things as ley lines, Tethers and those using the Corporeal Song of Terrain. All such features within (player's Ethereal Forces x 50) yards are detected automatically unless they have been deliberately concealed using supernatural powers. Detecting any concealed features requires a Perception roll. The effect lasts for (CD) minutes unless the player wills it to end before then. Celestial - the Celestial is able to use ley lines for speedy travel. All movement rates are doubled when traveling along a ley line except for the Celestial Song of Motion - the distance is doubled instead. The bonus lasts for (CD) minutes. This Song is useless unless the player knows the Ethereal Song of Terrain or has David's Geomancy Attunement. Essence Requirement: 1 Degree of Disturbance: CD Available: David ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:05:58 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Jingle > Ethereal Spirit Gnph... Mph... Errr... BWAHAHAHAHAHA! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:10:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Medieval Jean - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Second, wouldn't *complete* armor (plate or chain) make a > pretty > good Faraday cage, which would *protect* against a lightning > strike? (Of course, the armor is likely to heat up a lot, > even if it does prtect you from the direct strike...) Only if it's completely sealed. Even then, being in direct contact with metal as it's struck by lightning is bound to be unhealthy. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:16:45 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> INcyclopedia? I can't seem to find it on the web any more. Has the site gone down? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Medieval Jean - --- Laurent wrote: > Magnet That's awfully close to one of David's Choir Attunements. > Taser > Stuns a victim for a few rounds with a simple hand contact Seems too modern, especially since tasers were only invented a couple of decades ago. > Recharge This one I like. > Show off Hmm... seems a bit flashy for Jean. Remember, he's an Elohite; he can't see showing off as a good thing. After all, it's encouraging someone to make a decision based on an emotional impression -- and that's _Dissonant_. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:21:00 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Medieval Jean - --- Ben Glickler wrote: > Mercurians > > Not even sure. Anyone? Hmm... bioelectric vision that makes them walking polygraphs? Best I can do on short notice. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:04:31 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> Thoughts on Hardcore Hi all. I was thinking a bit on the differences between Furfur and Belial when I got to thinking of an Impudite of Hardcore character that's been running through my mind, and I think I've figured out why Lucifer promoted and keeps Furfur around, despite having Belial. The way I see it, Furfur actually does an acclerated version of Malphas's own work. Factions is all about tearing people apart and inspiring paranoia. Hardcore is about destroying society in general. When Furfur's people go around turning peaceful demonstrations into full-scale riots, what happens? The cops stop in and shut them down. The next time people gather to demonstrate, the cops turn out in full riot gear, just in case. The politicans or business leaders or whoever is being protested dismisses the (perhaps just) claims of the demonstrators and being the ravings of dangerous fanatics. Thus, needed changes in society don't come to pass. Resentment lingers on all sides and needed changes to society don't occur or are poisoned by the violent behavior. Not to mention the property damage, theft and occassional lost lives. Those are just perks of the job. Belial on the other hand, simply burns stuff down and blows stuff up, making him less sophisticated than his former Servitor in that regard. That's why I think Lucifer keeps Furfur around. Your thoughts? :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:21:47 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> INcyclopedia? At 09:16 PM 2/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >I can't seem to find it on the web any more. Has the site gone down? www.incyclopedia.org loads just fine for me... - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:32:02 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Walton To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) > >--- Maurice Lane wrote: >> Jingle >> Ethereal Spirit > > Gnph... You know, suddenly I'm reminded of an issue of Gen13 where Caitlin was the only person in the world who was unaffected by a powerful living Meme, which manifested as a Pop Song artist who made the hit single "It's Happy to be Happy", and was slowly taking over the culture of the world, remodling it to reflect it's song. Kinda makes for an interesting Ethereal Spirt concept: a Cultural Meme so strong, it's slowly absorbing Essence from the Minds of more and more people, exploting every Medium possible to spread itself across the world, until it becomes the most influential Meme in existance... So powerful, Servitors of Dreams and Nightmares might be forced to work together against it... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:33:45 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Thoughts on Hardcore > Belial on the other hand, simply burns stuff down and blows stuff up, > making him less sophisticated than his former Servitor in that regard. > That's why I think Lucifer keeps Furfur around. Your thoughts? :) Belial was getting into a rut, so Lucifer promoted Furfur. They both provide Hell with the same service, so only one of them can survive. If it's Belial, good. If it's Furfur, so much the better. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:33:36 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I'm going to have to kill someone now, I can tell. Here's something to help you choose your target. };> Oh, Nybbie, you're so fine, You're so fine you blow my mind. Hey, Nybbie! Hey, Nybbie! Oh, Nybbie, it's a pity you don't understand That way up there in Heaven Your best work is always banned! Oh, Nybbie, you're the TV mogul of the damned, So here's to you, Nybbie! 'Cause you're cool and you rule, Nybbie! And you're no fool, Nybbie! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) - --- damienw@juno.com wrote: > My trite and catchy 80s song of choice was usually Wang > Chung's "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" Let's see if I can get strike two... Every demon and soul in sight, (Everybody has guns tonight) Baal is watching, no chance for flight, (Everybody has guns tonight) ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:37:33 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Thoughts on Hardcore Makes sense actually. Hardcore IMHO is all about going to extremes. Throughing reason overboard, and letting emotion and impulse guide you. (Just look at at his Habbalite attunment, any Elohite that doesn't have the Etheral Song of Sheilds up when they face one of these bad boys is begging for dissonance). If everyone is at extremes, no one can ever meet at the middle. Bradley Paranial, Elohite Freind of the Lords Troops giving his 2 Esscence. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:39:12 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> INcyclopedia? > www.incyclopedia.org loads just fine for me... Thanks. For some reason a web search wouldn't turn it up... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:43:49 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: RE: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) From: Michael Walton [mailto:thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com] >Oh, Nybbie, you're so fine, >You're so fine you blow my mind. >Hey, Nybbie! Hey, Nybbie! NYBBIE ?!?!?!?!?! ^C ("Nybbie ?!?!? Get the producer from Survivor on the line ... A contestant dying would be GREAT for rating !") CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify AMCOR immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of AMCOR. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) - --- Mike Bruner wrote: > So, anybody for a few choruses of Celine Dion's "My Heart Will > Go On"?... You asked for it; strike three... Hell's here, there's so much to fear And you know that the pain will go on! In Sheol they'll harvest your soul While Saminga is laughing, The pain will go on and on! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:55:14 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) >>Hell's here, there's so much to fear >And you know that the pain will go on! >In Sheol they'll harvest your soul >While Saminga is laughing, >The pain will go on and on! *Throws Brick, than Starts Hunning to himself* Eli, Eli Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when Judgment comes for you? Make it stop please. Brad _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:57:08 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Healing question - --- EDG wrote: > At 02:10 PM 2/8/01 -0800, you wrote: > >How much oomph does the Corporeal Song of Healing > >have? Can it regenerate limbs, for example? On a similar note (don't have any books with me, darn it!), does inflicting Mind Hits (as with the Ethereal Song of Entropy) or Soul Hits (as with the Calabite of Lust Attunement) on a corporeal entity disturb the Symphony? I assume that the death of the target causes a normal Disturbance, but what about the damage? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:00:46 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) >Oh, Nybbie, it's a pity you don't understand >That way up there in Heaven >Your best work is always banned! >Oh, Nybbie, you're the TV mogul of the damned, >So here's to you, Nybbie! >'Cause you're cool and you rule, Nybbie! >And you're no fool, Nybbie! Why do I suspect this was backformed from the Weird Al parody? Similar word choices. yours, al-aholic, Jason * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Angels in the Architecture - --- Kelly Pedersen wrote: > And for angel characters, getting these angels who > have been out of the loop for nearly a thousand years > acclimated to the modern world can provide many > adventures all by itself. Nice idea. The only problem is that it would be easy to get these angels to come home. We can assume that every Superior knows the Celestial Song of Tongues, and they might be willing to shell out that amount of Essence for something that important. A Song of Calling could do almost as good a job for less Essence. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:04:50 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 6, 2001 (ML) - --- Jason Schneiderman wrote: > Why do I suspect this was backformed from the Weird Al parody? > Similar word choices. A good thief only steals from the best. };;;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:07:43 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: IN> Discord: Floating Here's a new discord I finally got around to writing up. I think it's great for setting mood for NPC's. Comments, as always, appreciated. Corporeal Discord: Floating Celestials with the Floating discord are, for some reason, not anchored securely to the corporeal plane. For each level of the discord the angel or demon will, most of the time, levitate 1/4" above the surface of whatever they are standing on for each level of the discord. When the celestial is experiencing tense or traumatic events, the levitation becomes more pronounced. During a period of light stress (having a gun pointed at you) roll against 1 + the level of the discord, moderate stress (being shot at) roll against 3 + the discord, and great stress (being shot) roll against 5 + the discord. Add the total of any essence spent during this time to the target number. Failure means the distance levitated increases to 2"/level for a total number of minutes equal to the check digit. Note that this is primarily a cosmetic effect, and as such does not confer any special benefits. The celestial won't leave footprints, but will disturb the ground as if a strong fan were run over the ground where they walked. Although they won't make audible footsteps, floorboards will still creak with the weight of the celestial over them. Falling causes the same damage as usual. And the angel or demon remains unable to stand on anything that wouldn't support their weight in the first place. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:13:47 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? At 7:09 PM -0600 2/8/01, David Edelstein wrote: >Charles Phipps wrote: >> One of the more interesting questions posed is that the Grigori as the most >> close to the human form are almost indistinguishable from humans in mindset >> and this led me to a rather fascinating deduction as to why we never have >> seen a Fallen form of the Grigori....despite the fact that the Nephilim are >> huge monstrous murderous beings who frankly would fit in well amongst the >> hosts of Haagenti, Andrephalus, Baal, and Belial. > > >According to G:IN, Fallen Grigori become Stalkers. I may write them up >for IN someday too (except that I hate the concept). Wow. This has never happened to me. This has *never* happened to me. David? You're wrong. They become *Skulkers.* A very different word and a very different concept. I assume you know that, but still, I have to enjoy this while it lasts. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:01:03 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > They become *Skulkers.* A very different word and a very different concept. > > I assume you know that, but still, I have to enjoy this while it lasts. Yes, yes, enjoy your little victory. So my mind is mush after a week of teaching and studying. Anyway, I don't like the "Skulkers" as presented in G:IN, but unfortunately, they're basically canon. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:19:29 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Lahnum Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions for WWII game. > Uh... I don't think you should have any trouble > telling which side in The > War would side with in WWII. Actually I don't see it as cut and dried as you do. I'm keeping in mind a couple of things here. One is that no one ever sees themselves as the bad guys in warfare. Yes, the Nazis and other Axis did very bad things to many many people, but let me make some arguments to make you think about my abiguity around the motivations of each side. Let's start with the allies. First, the Americans, imprisoned thousands of Asian people, on fear that they might be collaborating with the Japanese to help destroy democracy. This I could link to Malphas, Nybbas, or possibly Kobal. Secondly, the controversy surrounding the building of the atomic bomb, and the bombing of Hiroshima would imply to me that Vapula had a hand in the creation of it. I think Jean would've been aware of it, but I don't believe he'd support anything with such destructive potential once he realized what it could do. Finally, the allies planned to stab their long time ally Russia in the back as soon as the war was over. This I could easily pin on Malphas. In fact if I wanted to I could pin the entire idea of the cold war on Malphas and that started at the end of world war two. As for the Axis, the reasons that these people began a war was to find economic freedom. Now, this didn't coincide with what Hitler's plans were for war, but the common soldier was fighting mostly for the economic future of the country. Marc may have had a hand in the Socialist movement coming to power at first thinking it would be beneficial. After he saw the problems inherent in it, and what it was being used for he would've backed right out. Let's see I can also pin the rapid changing of goverments and ideals on Janus. These are my ideas about this subject. Each side commited evil acts, and each side at least at first thought their actions were justified. I would definitely pin the Holocaust and the major atrocities of WWII on the Diabolicals, but as for the beginning of it, and individual circumstances throughout it, it isn't as easy as that in my mind. No war in my opinion is as easy as good vs. evil. Even the war of Heaven vs. Hell is full of gray morality. That's not to say I don't appreciate any of your ideas. Thank you for contributing some of your ideas. By putting the diabolicals and celestials in nice groups, you got me thinking of the motivations each superior would have for serving in the war or sitting it out. Also, in a purely black and white morality game that would work wonderfully, but I'm looking for a more gray toned game. I especially like the picture you had of Jean being a tragic hero with serious moral conflicts that's a very interesting picture and I might try and incorporate it somehow. Thanks, Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:27:25 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> February 7, 2001 (ML) - --On Thursday, February 8, 2001 23:12 +0000 Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > Haggendi and Saminga rather like the Bun Festival > for example. > I don't know. I have a hard time picturing them really getting into the celebration of angry mini-lops. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("*CA-CLICK* Say hello to Trauma for me, nerd-boy.") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:37:53 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> LEGION Hey I'm doing up Legion for my game and I need all the help I can get, anything from attunements to distinctions to what exactly might have happened to his servitors would be appreciated. I have a few general ideas but not sure what to do with them. * Legion was orginally a low ranking servitor of death until he was confronted with the Big guy JC (and I don't mean John Coffee) in which he was instantly redeemed inside the body of the man in which he possesed a large number of pig bodies and ran them off a cliff to kill himself and send him back to Hell so horrofied was Legion at the display of power. Oddly though after the experience he was able to maintain his ability to posess multiple bodies. * Legion before his "great ascension" in which he would absorb all of mankind into himself absorbed the entire summation of his servitors, souls, and his principality into himself which made him the most being (possibly) in the cosmos as he added mortal soul after mortal soul to himself. Any celestial or mortal he added to himself he could keep the forces of to strengthen himself including the word. * Legion was allied with Beleth, Saminga and Associated with Makatiel, Mariel, Kronos, and Belial. He was hostile to every other Prince in Hell EXCEPT Malphas who was his enemy. I figure Legion believed on some level it was his divine duty to "unite" all beings and there was some bizzare word friction going on there. It's something disturbing in Hell that he got along most with the most insane princes and a number have ended up destroyed. Thoughts? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:45:35 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Medieval Jean - --On Thursday, February 8, 2001 18:17 -0800 Michael Walton wrote: > > Hmm... seems a bit flashy for Jean. Remember, he's an > Elohite; he can't see showing off as a good thing. After all, > it's encouraging someone to make a decision based on an > emotional impression -- and that's _Dissonant_. > Dissonant for the impressOR, but not for the impresEE. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Hey, whatever gets the job done best.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:01:52 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Healing question > On a similar note (don't have any books with me, darn it!), >does inflicting Mind Hits (as with the Ethereal Song of Entropy) >or Soul Hits (as with the Calabite of Lust Attunement) on a >corporeal entity disturb the Symphony? I assume that the death >of the target causes a normal Disturbance, but what about the damage? > >===== >Michael Walton Inflicting Mind Hits on corporeal beings causes a form of Disturbance detectable to the specialized Perception of the Grigori; the Watchers were made exactly for the purpose of detecting all manner of Disturbance and following up on it. Other angels cannot hear Mind Hit Disturbance; not even the Grigori can hear Disturbance from Soul Hits, if such a thing even exists. William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:07:30 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Healing question >The Liber Canticorum is more specific, IIRC. > >-David In fact, it's slightly different... enh. Moe doubtless wants the LCant version anyway. William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:08:13 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? >Anyway, I don't like the "Skulkers" as presented in G:IN, but >unfortunately, they're basically canon. > >-David I'll bite. Why? William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:15:51 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> LEGION Check out the Infernal Players' Guide; this explains Legion's origin story. William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:17:53 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Discord: Floating >Corporeal Discord: Floating > >-- Chris *Chuckle* I like. They might try to hide it, too. ("What? Floating? Oh, uh, no, I'm... standing on my toes." *toestretch* "See?") William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:27:59 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Can Grigori Fall? "William J. Keith" wrote: > > I'll bite. Why? Unimaginative and not thought out. They're just pat reflections of the Grigori, with none of the perverse twisting that makes Balseraphs very different creatures from Seraphs, Calabim very different creatures from Ofanim, etc. The Skulkers, as written, are just "evil Grigori." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 01:56:27 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions for WWII game. >> Uh... I don't think you should have any trouble >> telling which side in The >> War would side with in WWII. > >Actually I don't see it as cut and dried as you do. >I'm keeping in mind a couple of things here. One is >that no one ever sees themselves as the bad guys in >warfare. Yes, the Nazis and other Axis did very bad >things to many many people, but let me make some >arguments to make you think about my abiguity around >the motivations of each side. >These are my ideas about this subject. Each side >commited evil acts, and each side at least at first >thought their actions were justified. I would >definitely pin the Holocaust and the major atrocities >of WWII on the Diabolicals, but as for the beginning >of it, and individual circumstances throughout it, it >isn't as easy as that in my mind. No war in my >opinion is as easy as good vs. evil. Even the war of >Heaven vs. Hell is full of gray morality. Personally I tend to think WWII, like most of the really major events in IN history, owes most of what happened to the humans. Sure, in general Heaven and Hell undoubtably were busy with various projects. But I think the ideas for pretty much all the triumphs and horrors of WWII were human ones, with the various Celestials jumping into their favored areas as always. Still, there's plenty of room for the angels and demons to play in. Heaven's forces were mainly concentrated on the Allied side I expect (with maybe some heated competition in Italy at times), although I figure Hell was wiggling in there as best they could (Nybas seems likely for some of the propaganda for one thing). I doubt Marc was supporting the National Socialism party; wasn't Hitler pretty much anti-Semitic from the start with that? Not to mention his first attempt at power was a coup effort. One interesting idea might even be that the Great Depression was indeed a time of depression for Marc (considering many of the effects spread worldwide, it certainly couldn't have done his Word any good); maybe he was nearly out of it until the threat of war revived him and his Word. Certainly he had to have been plugging away at the US production facilities to help get their amazing production going. Michael I think was spending a lot of time fighting in person in various places; part of him might have been secretly thrilled to have a REAL fight to support. He most certainly gained the most Tethers of all of Heaven's forces during this time period. Dominic I expect was playing counterintelligence on Earth; he might have been all that kept the Allies from being subverted just like the Axis. The only other Archangel I have thoughts on would be Novalis, who of course pretty much took it hard through the whole thing; she's still a little ticked over all those trashed hedgerows in Normandy to boot... ;) As for the Angels and the Axis, while it probably wasn't completely cut and dried, I do think Heaven was pretty firmly against the Axis. Even from the start I can see several conflicts between Heaven's interests and those of the Axis leaders, so I can't see much support from Heaven for any of their governments. Individuals of course (Yves would keep working everywhere), but not the governments in any shape or form. WWII may not have been pure good vs. evil, but in all honesty it came as close as you can probably get in real life to that. As for Hell, obviously this was the heyday of Malphas; not only did he have EVERYBODY divided into sides warring against each other, but even within the two sides there was tremendous distrust between members. I don't think Kronos can claim full credit for Hitler or Mussolini, but certainly many of the other Nazis, Facists, and members of the Japanese forces are his handywork (he was probably trying but failing with Patton too). Vapula of course delighted in German science; not just the "medical experiments", but the German jet/rocket programs practically scream Vap-Tech. Baal and Saminga also no doubt enjoyed themselves; I can imagine a servitor of one of them who spent his time in the latter half of the war getting good at playing kamikaze again and again and again... (there's one I should write up; the Demon of Suicide Attacks, servitor of Baal :)). I expect Russia was also being heavily manipulated by Hell given how ugly the fighting on that front got on both sides; maybe the Eastern Front covered some Diabolic disagreements? No reason THEY would be a unified bloc after all. At any rate, loads of possibilities; WWII was a big thing for humanity, so the celestials would obviously make it their focus as well. Just keep it to pushing things along in numerous minor ways as opposed to the Axis and Allies being mere puppets for Heaven and Hell. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2051 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.