From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Feb 11 09:20:59 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06390 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:20:59 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA03321 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:14:28 -0600 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:14:28 -0600 Message-Id: <200102111514.JAA03321@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2055 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2055 In this digest: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) Re: IN> Re: About AIs Re: IN> Angels in the Architecture Re: IN> Angels in the Architecture IN> Baal vs. Kronos (Was Superior words) Re: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) IN> Hypothetical question Re: IN> Hypothetical question Re: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival IN> Exclusive Scoop! Re: IN> Hypothetical question Re: IN> Hypothetical question Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival Re: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival IN> The Oathbreaker Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival Re: IN> Exclusive Scoop! Re: About AIs [Was Re: IN> Medieval Jean] Re: IN> Hypothetical question Re: IN> The Oathbreaker Re: IN> Healing question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:41:37 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) >> > Take Baal for instance. His Word is The War. Humans in general have no >> > clue about the war between Heaven and Hell, let alone support it. How is it >> > then that his Word is powerful and that he is so powerful? It certainly >> > isn't because The War is forefront in human society and at the >> > tip of everyones tounges. >> >> No, it's because Baal's Word isn't limited to the War between >>Heaven and Hell. It also encompasses the War between Good and >>Evil -- and that concept is universal to Human cultures. > >From what I read in TFT, Baal's Word is exclusivly the War between Heaven >and Hell. Not a conceptual War between Good and Evil, if it were, then he >would be the most powerful Celestial that ever lived. Much more so than >Lucifer. He would embody the dark and light, not just one or the other. Well, if he embodies the FIGHT between Good and Evil, he doesn't take anything from just being evil/good, only if you conflict between the two. I think Lucifer's Word (if he has one; I do like the idea of Darkness for his Word) would probably encompass BEING evil, which would be much stronger than Baal's. And I imagine Baal's Word has to have the connotation "and Evil winning the fight" to it, which is a further limitation to its power (it doesn't support his Word when the angels kick demon butt). But still, it most certainly is a strong Word, and I think that's quite fitting; he is VERY strong in Hell's hierarchy for a reason after all. Actually, there are a lot of interesting implications to Baal's Word that might be worth exploring in a game. For one, it revolves around the struggle between Good and Evil, not Evil vs. Evil. This makes it quite likely Baal despises the usual internal politics of Hell; his association with Asmodeus is quite likely because Asmodeus is good at keeping that "disloyalty" under control and out of his way so he can concentrate on "the real fight" (Asmodeus, whose Word does cover Evil vs. Evil, probably only really associates with Baal because Baal's cause gives him justification for the rules of the Game (you can't have traitors without a nice cause for them to betray...). It also encompasses his true hatred of Malphas, who runs around undermining all his victories with Evil vs. Evil. The other interesting thing about The War is that unlike Michael, whose Word has been stated to encompass the ends of wars as well as fighting them, Baal exists only in the fighting. What's really interesting is that one can see an inherant self-contradiction in his own Word because of this; Baal must have victory to preserve his Word, yet he cannot have The War end without his Word being destroyed. He's probably one of the few celestials with such inherant self-Word friction; it probably takes his Balseraph nature to embrace both contradicting viewpoints in one Word at all. When one considers how Gabriel has been driven mad by Word friction (at least in part), what of a the mind of a Demon Prince who is doomed to perpetual Word-conflict with himself? His Hostilities listed in his profile seem to be directed at Demon Princes who in fact do not need the fighting to continue in order to support their Words, possibly a subconcious recognition on his part of his situation (and Kronos in particular is almost Baal's Word on an individual basis (Evil triumphing over Good in a person)). But the real fun begins when you take a look at what this situation means for Hell overall. Baal and Asmodeus are both the Demon Princes in charge of really fighting against Heaven directly; the others seem to almost see the battle against Heaven as a side issue to their "work". Yet Baal's interests as I've demonstrated (keep winning, but don't end the fighting) are in favor of a perpetual stalemate in the end. Asmodeus himself has a similar problem; not only does he need his cause for there to be traitors to a cause, but if somebody wins, the Game is over. There's an old saying called Ginsberg's Theorem that sort of sums up both their positions: "You can't win. You can't break even. You can't even quit the game." They both must be winners, yet they cannot win. This has several possibilities for an In Nomine campaign. First, Baal obviously has a problem if he starts winning suddenly, so it's in his interests in such a case to start throwing fights till things get back to even. Yet unlike Asmodeus, who could merely "redefine the rules of the Game" to deal with such a thing (abeit with difficulty), Baal would be in inherant conflict with his Word by not seeking victory, an inherant dissonance-generating situation. Imagine Hell's confusion if Baal went Renegade right when it seemed like he was so close to that victory he's always spoken of longing for. Or even worse, maybe Redeem; Moe's Oops cycle missed one Demon Prince nobody REALLY would ever expect to return to Heaven... :) And of course, one question presents itself in true metaplot fashion. Lucifer gave those two their Words; he has to be smart enough to know what the whole meaning of those two Words is and their need for a stalemate. So why would Lucifer give the war, a War he HAS to win for his own existence and everything he has created to have any meaning at all beyond a lie, into the charge of the two Demon Princes who could never win it?... ;) - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:41:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Ranma al'Thor" Subject: Re: IN> Re: About AIs On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, William J. Keith wrote: > Undead AIs... a curious notion. If they have souls, and I figure any > free-willed being has a soul (probably a reasonable definition in In > Nomine), then their Celestial Forces could probably get tied up in the > Corporeal Realm just like a standard Undead. The question is, what would > they gain from it? They're already unaging, and that's a big price to pay > for some Songs and Essence control. > An Undead AI would no longer be dependent on an external power source to function. It would still need a housing, but not electricity any more. Vampire AIs would probably have to manipulate people into playing some sort of game in order to fulfill their 'need'. Zombi AIs could function without power but would begin to degrade. This indepence means you're no longer subject to humans turning you off. Possibly an Undead AI also might only be deletable by physically destroying its housing, not just by some mortal deleting its files. And, as you pointed out, becoming an Undead would enable an AI to consciously control its Essence expenditure. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:50:57 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Angels in the Architecture >>Hmm. Good point. I suspected someone would come up >>with a Song that would poke holes in that. I need the >>Liber Canticorm! Anyway, how bout this as a quick fix: >>the angels were provided with artifacts to screen >>their prescence, to prevent premature detection by >>demons. A side effect was that it cut off any >>supernatural means of communication until they broke >>cover. > >Sounds good to me. Say, did you see the Disney series "Gargoyles"? It has >a similar premise: a Clan of Medieval Gargoyles (creatures who turn to stone >statues by day) are stuck with a spell that makes them sleep as Stone for a >thousand years, awakening in 1990 New York. They then have to learn to >adapt to the new times, while preserving their natural culture of protecting >their castles and cities. > >Maybe many of these Statue-Angels could have gargoyle-like forms as Vessels, >their Celestial Forms mirroring them somehow... You know, I saw a new book just recently that dealt with gargoyles that were actually angels guarding cathedrals; St. Patrick's Gargoyle by Katherine Kurtz according to my search on Amazon (ISBN: 0441007252 if you're interested in finding it yourself). Don't know if it's any good, just thought I'd mention it. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:49:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Ranma al'Thor" Subject: Re: IN> Angels in the Architecture On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Kelly Pedersen wrote: > > > Hmm. Another good point. Darnit, I knew that part > about the angles being unfindable was the weak link. > However... What, exactly, does the Heart show? Does it It tells them exactly where you are. This is why Demonic Renegades have to steal or break their own Heart, or their Prince will just mosey on down, find them, then send a horde of minions to get them. And Angels have been known to give each other their hearts in order to enable their friends to find them if they vanish. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:33:30 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Baal vs. Kronos (Was Superior words) ><though >because like it or not it colors every daily aspect of our lives the >struggle between "Selfishness" and "Selflessness" and it's so powerful >indeed I think that it's actually a word shared with Asmodeus and it's STILL >making them the two most powerful Princes in Hell.>> >? Kronos? Actually personally speaking in my opinion Kronos isn't more powerful than Baal and the same can be said for Michael and Yves. Kronos is the Demon of Fate and is "assumed" by most cannon sources to be an aspect of God that has somehow been corrupted by the forces of Lucifer or perhaps is a "dirty trick" being played on Lucifer by God. Basically leading so many souls to their fate in the knowledge that at some point their going to get screwed over, redeemed, or to punish the guilty (Habbalah propaganda but you'd be surprised at how many people think God only allows Heaven open to certain types of people and wants the others out!) However the Metatron was the voice of God and slain by Luficer it seems rather easily. I think also if Michael's hostility to Yves grew he could slay Yves and versa for Baal and Kronos. Fate while the most knowledgeable in hell seems far less powerful personally. Baal also is no slouch despite what people may think and may actually triumph over Michael during judgement day despite what people may think. His word I think does cover "good vs. Evil" however it only covers those who THINK they are righteous not necessarily those who are and that covers areas War doesn't necessarily but areas Purity did. Baal also is the 3rd born Celestial after Michael and Lucifer and frankly Valor and The War are more martial words than Light...he may actually have defeated Michael or given him a worse run for his money than Lucifer would have. Also Baal is ever changing and in my opinion could destroy Kronos if he desired. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:38:23 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) >There's an old saying called Ginsberg's Theorem that sort of sums up >both their positions: "You can't win. You can't break even. You >can't even quit the game." I've heard that as being the laws of thermodynamics: 1. Conservation of Energy 2. Entropy 3. The universe is a closed system. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:16:07 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Hypothetical question Could a Malakim accept a Word from Lucifer? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:59:16 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Hypothetical question - --On Saturday, February 10, 2001 22:16 -0500 Charles Phipps wrote: > Could a Malakim accept a Word from Lucifer? > > -Charlemagne > > *urk* I don't even know where to begin where to start with what's wrong with that idea. The First Oath, inability to accept misaligned forces, inability of Superiors to assign angelic words to demons and vice versa, his life expectancy even if you bent canon like a pretzel to make it happen... Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:05:19 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) >>There's an old saying called Ginsberg's Theorem that sort of sums up >>both their positions: "You can't win. You can't break even. You >>can't even quit the game." > > I've heard that as being the laws of thermodynamics: >1. Conservation of Energy >2. Entropy >3. The universe is a closed system. Wouldn't surprise me if that was where it came from actually. Although the comment I liked that I've heard on it was that the three major philosophies of capitalism, communism, and mysticism in some way depends on ignoring one of the three points of Ginsberg. Capitalism is based on the assumption you can win, communism believes you can break even, and mysticism is based on believing you can quit the game :). - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:13:48 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Bowden" To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival > --On Friday, February 9, 2001 23:07 +0000 Charles Glasgow > wrote: > > > Just two questions... > > > > Who's Zoe serving? > Zoe's got to be associated with Dark Humor somehow, if only as the > punchline. Zoe? Dark Humor? I've always seen Zoe as firmly in the angelic camp, myself... > > And what about Sasha? > *absolutely straight face* Why, she works for UP-EX, of course. Ahhhh, so she's one of Marc's Ofanim (the best shippers in the business!) Seems pretty calm for an Ofanite, though. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:33:44 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: IN> Exclusive Scoop! So, I was minding my own business. . . When along comes the latest episode of Xena. . . - - - - - Nybbas: "So, you're an Angel, right Michael?" Archangel Michael: "ARCHANGEL!" *he echoes* Nybbas: "Lucifer, is it true that Xena, who was slated to sit on the throne of hell, tricked you into being it's master instead?" Lucifer: "Who are you? Are you one of mine?!?" Nybbas: "No. no. no. no. Uhmn, no." - - - - - Or something vaugely like that. Needless to say, it was _wrong_ on many levels. In fact, it was so wrong that Moe should watch it and liberally steal from it for hours and hours of wacky fun! Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:23:25 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Hypothetical question Marc Bowden wrote: > *urk* I don't even know where to begin where to start with what's > wrong with that idea. > > The First Oath, inability to accept misaligned forces, inability of > Superiors to assign angelic words to demons and vice versa, his life > expectancy even if you bent canon like a pretzel to make it happen... True enough. But theoretically, a Malakite _could_ probably accept a Word from Lucifer. The question is rather like "Could a person commit suicide with a cheese grater?" Yes, but he'd have to be beyond deranged. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:54:20 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Hypothetical question - --On Saturday, February 10, 2001 23:23 -0600 David Edelstein wrote: > Marc Bowden wrote: >> *urk* I don't even know where to begin where to start with what's >> wrong with that idea. >> >> The First Oath, inability to accept misaligned forces, inability of >> Superiors to assign angelic words to demons and vice versa, his life >> expectancy even if you bent canon like a pretzel to make it happen... > > > True enough. But theoretically, a Malakite _could_ probably accept a > Word from Lucifer. The question is rather like "Could a person commit > suicide with a cheese grater?" Yes, but he'd have to be beyond > deranged. > My point, sir. Malakim tend to, um, "take care of their own" once they go that far. To paraphrase, they can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with, don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. It's a kind of love that, to outsiders, can be hard to fathom. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("You still don't get it, do you? He'll find her. That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! He'll wade through you, reach down her throat, and pull her Heart out!") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:49:18 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival At 11:13 PM -0600 2/10/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > >Zoe? Dark Humor? I've always seen Zoe as firmly in the angelic camp, >myself... Not any more. They made careful, significant mention that Zoe was transferred from the Nice list to the Naughty list. Boom. And it was over Theft, so clearly she's one of Valefor's. > > > And what about Sasha? > >> *absolutely straight face* Why, she works for UP-EX, of course. > >Ahhhh, so she's one of Marc's Ofanim (the best shippers in the business!) > >Seems pretty calm for an Ofanite, though. You... think Sasha's an angel? Heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:08:19 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: "Charles Glasgow" Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 11:49 PM Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival > At 11:13 PM -0600 2/10/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >Zoe? Dark Humor? I've always seen Zoe as firmly in the angelic camp, > >myself... > > Not any more. They made careful, significant mention that Zoe was > transferred from the Nice list to the Naughty list. Boom. Santa Claus is not Heaven. Who cares about the judgement criteria of a manifest Ethereal Spirit that just lost itself a major war with some weird aggressive offshoot of the Space Brothers? > And it was over Theft, so clearly she's one of Valefor's. Nope, she doesn't obey Valefor's dissonance conditions. Unless it's a case of "run for her life", Zoe *hates* travel. Heck, theft of the type that Zoe didn't stop (remember, she didn't actually steal it, she merely didn't get too upset when she found out after the fact that her friends had been stealing it) isn't even a dissonance condition violation for most angels... > > > > And what about Sasha? > > > >> *absolutely straight face* Why, she works for UP-EX, of course. > > > >Ahhhh, so she's one of Marc's Ofanim (the best shippers in the business!) > > > >Seems pretty calm for an Ofanite, though. > > You... think Sasha's an angel? Heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh. Erm? Did Sasha do something demonic that I failed to notice? As Torg recently found out to his extreme consternation, Sasha can accept her boyfriend's suddenly vanishing and ignoring her completely, never calling, never returning calls, never answering the doorbell, etc, etc. -- and *still not feel the slightest amount of anger*, only moderate curiosity and increased concern/caring for the possible welfare of said boyfriend! Even Zoe, at her absolute nicest, would be shooting steam out of her ears by that point... So if that's not angelic behavior on Sasha's part, kindly tell me what is? It's most certainly *not* demonic. If Sasha isn't an angel, she's at the absolute minimum a prime recruitment prospect for a Soldier of God. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:20:30 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival - --On Saturday, February 10, 2001 23:13 -0600 Charles Glasgow wrote: > From: "Marc Bowden" >> --On Friday, February 9, 2001 23:07 +0000 Charles Glasgow >> wrote: >> >> > Just two questions... >> > >> > Who's Zoe serving? > >> Zoe's got to be associated with Dark Humor somehow, if only as the >> punchline. > > Zoe? Dark Humor? I've always seen Zoe as firmly in the angelic camp, > myself... > So do I, actually. Mercurian of Eli, if I interpret the evidence correctly. I believe she's not a servant of Dark Humor so much as the victim. To wit, someone is mugged in New York every seven seconds. Odds on, it's poor Zoe. >> > And what about Sasha? > >> *absolutely straight face* Why, she works for UP-EX, of course. > > Ahhhh, so she's one of Marc's Ofanim (the best shippers in the > business!) > > Seems pretty calm for an Ofanite, though. > Inability to sleep (1/6/01), likes to keep moving (1/3/01, 1/9/01), easily excitable (12/30/00)... Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("And Kiki is SO one of Christopher's relievers...") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:27:02 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Baal's Word (longish) (Was: IN> Human Words/Symphonic Words) - --On Sunday, February 11, 2001 00:05 -0500 Mike Bruner wrote: >>> There's an old saying called Ginsberg's Theorem that sort of sums >>> up both their positions: "You can't win. You can't break even. You >>> can't even quit the game." >> >> I've heard that as being the laws of thermodynamics: >> 1. Conservation of Energy >> 2. Entropy >> 3. The universe is a closed system. > > Wouldn't surprise me if that was where it came from actually. > Although the comment I liked that I've heard on it was that the three > major philosophies of capitalism, communism, and mysticism in some > way depends on ignoring one of the three points of Ginsberg. > Capitalism is based on the assumption you can win, communism believes > you can break even, and mysticism is based on believing you can quit > the game :). > Entropy, anthropy, extropy.... You missed one. Being a teenager is based on believing the game didn't exist until you got there. ;) Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:28:05 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Bowden" To: Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 12:20 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival > > Ahhhh, so [Sasha is] one of Marc's Ofanim (the best shippers in the > > business!) > > > > Seems pretty calm for an Ofanite, though. > Inability to sleep (1/6/01), likes to keep moving (1/3/01, 1/9/01), > easily excitable (12/30/00)... Badda-bing, badda-boom, *ka-click*. We now have positive and confirmed ID on an Ofanite. Good spotting. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:44:23 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Oathbreaker With special thanks to David Edelstein for his Dark Malakim rules Warlock Outcast Malakim of Protection Cor- 4 Strength 10* Agility 12* Eth- 2 Intelligence 4 Precision 9* Cel- 4 Willpower 12* Perception 8 Artifacts: Reliquary-Fiery Sword 6/ Vessel: Human (vaguely) 4/ Skills: Acrobatics 2/, Detect Lies 4/, Dodge 5/, Fighting 5/, Large Weapon (Sword) 6/, Languages (Latin 4/, English 1/), Move Silently 4/, Tracking 6/, Tactics 3/ Songs: Attraction (Corporeal 2/, Celestial 4/), Charm (Corporeal 4/), Healing (Corporeal 5/, Celestial 5/), Numinous Corpus (Acid 5/, Wings 4/) Attunements: None Oaths: Never suffer an evil to live, Never Surrender to Hell, Never bring harm to an innocent, Never let a charge of mine suffer, Suffer not an angel to live, Investigate every Symphonic disturbance I hear, Never let my enemies die before I have terrified them, Attempt to soul kill any Malakim I encounter Discord: Vestigium (Shattered Wings) 5/, Stigmata 4/ (Sides, forehead, palms, and wings), Angry 4/, Paranoia 2/, Murderous 5/, Obsessive 2/ (Angels) * Raised seperate of forces Warlock is the boogeyman in which relievers who are about to fledge into Malakim are told against, Warlock is a creature which is an insult beyond compare to be compared to among Malakim, Warlock is a scare legend among angels alike to say that being a Malakim does not protect one from being evil. Warlock is mainly viewed to be mythical among many angels as most would attribute such a "creature" to be either impossible or to have been hunted down long ago and likely soon after he had aquired many of the traits which mark him as the monster he is. In truth Warlock is very real, very much alive, and Superiors from Novalis to Laurence equally want him brought in and in the case of all but the most passive princes utterly annhilated. The "Oathbreaker" was to the eternal shame of the Archangel of Protection one of her Malakim who fledged not long after she arose to her current status in 500 B.C. The reliever had been thought most likely to become a cherub for his selfless devotion to protection and love of all heaven and earth but his tireless hatred of the demon race for their perverting Earth and the Symphony with their deeds drove him to become one of the Virtues. On Earth he was charged with rescuing those at risk from the Fallen ones and he fufilled his mission with almost sadistic desire to punish them for their villany. For centuries it was as this until a village he had been protecting was sacked and all of his charges slain in the attempt, unfortunately it was not at the hand of diabolicals but angels. Malakim of War slaughtered the perverted families which had been forced into horrid acts by their Balseraph priest and Warlock's slaying him he had hoped would allow them redemption but instead all they found was death and perhaps damnation. Warlock then did an act which changed the course of his history as he killed his brother angels in a surprise and merciles assault. In the intervening time where Warlock debated the horror of his actions in what would become the forrests of Czechoslavakia he came to the conclusion that the Diabolicals were not the only one's who had perverted God's natural order but also the forces of Heaven. He had witnessed what he would have called atrocities in mortals in Heaven's callous disregard for those who stood in the way of the "greater good" as they contented themselves with the righteous entering Heaven and the wicked suffering a fate they forged for themselves. He was hunted for months in the forrests he knew more about than any, eluding his tormentors until he suceeded in returning to Heaven and in a wave of murderous slaughter killed his brothers and sisters and stole his heart from Heaven as Zadkiel could only look on at her fallen charge. The famous rampage is remembered as one of the greatest acts of violence and horror indeed since the Fall though few today recall it but those who heard or saw the horrendeous carnage. Warlock eventually fled his forrests and returned to his mission of protecting the innocent but Warlock as he grew more dissonant could not function as he did before and on several occasions killed the very charges he was sworn to protect in an act of rage over their actions or horror at his methods. Heaven and Hell he encountered routinely but the encounters were not enough to be the end of Warlock as his name became synomous with oathbreaker in Heaven and eventually much of Earth. For years at a time Warlock spent time in Limbo and places that were so incredibly isolated from mankind that only his own mad thoughts and rage were present to keep him company. On occasion he would be found and though he was sworn agaisnt it he murdered them in his rage. His periods of activity are well known among Superiors from the time he nailed a natal Tribunal of Judgement together in a totem pole with their wings stuffed down their throats to the London Fire where he burned brothels, opium dens, and even a Factions tether in the massive disturbance and confusion of that time to the crucifiction upside down of a Malakim in a church in New York for a sunday service to witness to a necklace of tongues which he made of Ethereals in a new england town. Warlock now hides in storm sewers and sewage centers and isolated forrests Warlock moves among the last few places he's not likely to be found before his oaths compell him to seek out disturbance and deal with the offenders accordingly in his own perverted and murderous way. His oaths in many ways are contradictory and the painful murderous dissonance of it has nearly driven him to destruction time and time again but he survives yet still in his belief that eventually he will have peace and the Corporeal world will be free of his kind to pursue it's own destiny though in his great rage and madness such a thing rarely ever occurs to him now. Still urban legends exist still in suburbia to great cities of the innocent and pure being rescued by a mad horrifying figure speaking in Latin to them in a muttering chanting voice before they were allowed to go, of course many more such legends would exist if they yet lived through the experience. In any case Warlock is a figure that remembers only the best ways to kill and holds a genius for his movement, not attacking madly but using every ounce of his surroundings but it doesn't matter if you are good or evil his discord drives him if you have the blood of celestials in your veins to have him want to hold your throat in his arms and squeeze it until you are no more or hack you to ribbons....and he will strip mine the symphony to do it...this Dark Malakim. Laurence, David, Dominic, Zadkiel, and Michael are all likely to offer distinctions to whoever brings Warlock in though Zadkiel still hopes that somehow his mind can be healed and would prefer him alive...there is no chance really that Dominic would not sentence him to death. Asmodeus, Kronos, Kobal, and Malphas have also similar desires for him though the Princes are more interested in him for the fact he might yet prove the undoing of the Malakim soul than any real death....Warlock has come closer than any Malakite to losing faith in his own honor and taking the plunge to disowing it altogether. However any Servitors who are not the greatest and most favored are advised to stay out of his way for treachery has cost too many lives already, most Malakim however would disobey their superiors (even Sword servitors) to destroy this stain on their honor however. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:38:25 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Bun-Bun Festival At 12:08 AM -0600 2/11/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > You... think Sasha's an angel? Heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh. > >Erm? Did Sasha do something demonic that I failed to notice? Ahhh... you're not reading the boards, clearly. This is all way off topic now, anyhow. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 02:15:06 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Exclusive Scoop! > So, I was minding my own business. . . When along comes the latest >episode of Xena. . . > >- Tafka J. My personal favorite lines in that scene: "Isn't it your job to believe in the esential goodness of man?" *points off to the side, like "Get a load of this guy..."* "Please. We help mankind to strive to achieve goodness.... but we're not stupid." (Okay, the delivery helped.) William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:47:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: About AIs [Was Re: IN> Medieval Jean] At 5:48 PM -0800 2/9/01, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Assuming a survival meme, would _you_ want to be the first Ai >> to make the attempt? O:> > > Ah, but a survival meme would only be present if That's why I said _Assuming a survival meme_. If you don't assume a survival meme, then of _course_ you could make an AI who wanted to die to test the theory. Not that such a thing would necessarily be ethical, of course, but that's a different universe that's starting to try to break loose, and I don't want Sapient Diana anywhere around this place. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:52:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hypothetical question At 10:16 PM -0500 2/10/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >Could a Malakim accept a Word from Lucifer? GM's option. I'd advise making the answer (_especially_ if the answer is yes) part of the whole campaign's theme, as a Maguffin to explore in depth, if you're going to deal with it at all. To do otherwise would, I feel, trivialize the Malakite nature, the nature of Lucifer, and one of the most potent combinations in the In Nomine universe. Remember for what purpose Malakim were created, and _when_. (Besides, it would probably turn him into a puddle of Discord. Not to mention all the other Malakim lining up to do the Mercy Killing) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:40:58 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> The Oathbreaker At 01:44 11/02/2001 -0500, you wrote: >With special thanks to David Edelstein for his Dark Malakim rules > >Warlock >Outcast Malakim of Protection > >Cor- 4 Strength 10* Agility 12* >Eth- 2 Intelligence 4 Precision 9* >Cel- 4 Willpower 12* Perception 8 Shouldn't that be Corp: 5, Eth: 3, Cel: 5 ? I was under the impression that gaining a fourth point in a force's attributes would automatically gain you an extra force. >Artifacts: Reliquary-Fiery Sword 6/ > >Vessel: Human (vaguely) 4/ > >Skills: Acrobatics 2/, Detect Lies 4/, Dodge 5/, Fighting 5/, Large Weapon >(Sword) 6/, Languages (Latin 4/, English 1/), Move Silently 4/, Tracking 6/, >Tactics 3/ > >Songs: Attraction (Corporeal 2/, Celestial 4/), Charm (Corporeal 4/), >Healing (Corporeal 5/, Celestial 5/), Numinous Corpus (Acid 5/, Wings 4/) Nice. One thing though; if he was such a stain on their honour, you would have thought that at least one Word-bound Malakim would have sought him out to soul-kill him by now. Even given his abilities to hide out, I would have thought that they would lure him out for such a showdown. Of course, as an adventure seed, that might well be the PC's mission... Pak ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:02:21 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Healing question At 16:10 09/02/2001 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 12:01 AM -0500 2/9/01, William J. Keith wrote: > >> On a similar note (don't have any books with me, darn it!), > >>does inflicting Mind Hits (as with the Ethereal Song of Entropy) > >>or Soul Hits (as with the Calabite of Lust Attunement) on a > >>corporeal entity disturb the Symphony? I assume that the death > >>of the target causes a normal Disturbance, but what about the damage? > >>===== Michael Walton > > > >Inflicting Mind Hits on corporeal beings causes a form of Disturbance > >detectable to the specialized Perception of the Grigori; the Watchers were > >made exactly for the purpose of detecting all manner of Disturbance and > >following up on it. Other angels cannot hear Mind Hit Disturbance; not > >even the Grigori can hear Disturbance from Soul Hits, if such a thing even > >exists. > >Hmmmm.... They might hear it indirectly, though, depending on GM >interpretation of the Calabite of Lust attunement. If getting nailed >with Soul damage causes some kind of psychological pain and upset, then >it would probably at least register as strongly as "celestial caused >a mental effect via mundane means." > >If it doesn't cause pain to lose Soul hits, for a human in a body, then >it would be silent. > >(Personally, I have Soul hits cause pain. It gives wimpy-vesseled 7-Force >Calabim something to do with their resonance and humans. But it's not >defined anywhere in canon that I know of, and I see little reason to >nail down that nit.) I would think that the Soul corresponds to those parts of the human psyche that are not part of what is traditionally thought of as "Mind". The Soul has attributes, like "Honour", "Integrity", "Compassion", "Strength of Character", etc., that are not actually part of a mental state. The difference is probably best illustrated by some examples; a person with a great deal of personal honour and integrity might be said to have a "bright" soul, whereas a person with little honour and no integrity would probably be thought of as being a "dark" soul. Of course, this may have little to do with their actual attitudes; a deeply honourable person with a great deal of integrity may be totally evil by the standards of society, or Heaven for that matter. Thus, I would (if I was running a game) rule that soul hits cause the weakening or loss of these attributes; someone with a reputation for honesty might start lying, an honourable person might start using underhand tactics, a compassionate person might harden his attitudes towards the homeless, etc. (On a personal note, I think that the latter almost always arises as a result of living in a large city for a period of time, and no, I'm not proud of this at all.) These near-intangible forms of damage would correspond well with the near-undefinable state of a soul. This is very similar to the kind of effect caused by Shedim, but I would probably rule that they are different routes to the same effect. Would this cause disturbance? I would say yes, but an extremely low level, no more than a murmur. A Grigori might be able to detect it if sufficiently close. Pak ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2055 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.