From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Feb 12 15:54:55 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03538 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:54:55 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA01558 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:54:14 -0600 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:54:14 -0600 Message-Id: <200102122154.PAA01558@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2057 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, February 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2057 In this digest: Re: IN> Angel of Patience Re: IN> Angel of Patience IN> Song of Twanging IN> Stone Identifications Re: Subject: IN> The official word has been given, it seems.... Re: IN> Angel of Patience Re: IN> Stone Identifications IN> Technology gadget IN> Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:39:21 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Patience The main thing is that it should be a Malakite, because Patience is a Virtue. ;) jo >From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Patience >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:22:18 -0500 (EST) > > > >On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Charles Phipps wrote: > > > Hey I'm writing up the Angel of Patience for Stone, anyone want to give >me > > an idea on the word forces for this puppy or rites? Maybe what kind of > > attunement he might have? I imagine it's a potent word. > >Patience is a very important Word, practically a major one. I would say >13-15 Word Forces, myself, with the potential to grow that if the angel >found some good ways to promote it as a virtue in the world. > >So that should actually give said angel 2-3 special abilities linked to >its Word. Let's see... > >* The angel may convince anyone acting in a hasty manner that they should >wait to act until the situation changes. This may resisted with a Will >roll (Celestials add their Celestial Forces). > >* The angel is immune to boredom and may bestow this immunity on the >people around him, affecting either everyone within (Celestial Forces x 3) >yards or the nearest (Celestial Forces x 10) people (angel's choice). For >one Essence, this effect will linger for one hour after the angel has left >the area. This has no specific game effect, but works noticeable wonders >when used at the DMV, post office, etc. > >* Try, try, and try again, and eventually you'll get it. If the angel >fails a skill roll when attempting a particular task, he may wait one hour >and try again, at a +1 bonus. This may be repeated on failed rolls, with a >cumulative +1 bonus, to a maximum bonus of the angel's Ethereal Forces. It >must be one specific task (i.e., not "picking a lock" but "picking the >lock on this door"). If the GM rules that there would normally be a >penalty for repeated attempts, the +1 bonus(es) will help cancel out this >penalty, not replace it. > >-- >Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! > Meow! > >"Anything sounds profound if you put it in quotation marks and sign it >Anonymous." -- Anonymous > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:57:15 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Patience Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: > * The angel is immune to boredom and may bestow this immunity > on the people around him, [...] This has no specific game effect, > but works noticeable wonders when used at the DMV, post office, > etc. Very nice. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:28:03 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Song of Twanging My girlfriend let me borrow her book of Strange and Unexplained Phenomina. This has no real relation to below, except as a polite indication that You Have Been Warned. :) Moe Song of Twanging (Celestial) Stupid name, yes, but that's the younger generation for you. There's no respect for tradition anymore. This is one of those Songs that _would_ have been restricted, if only someone had caught it in time. Alas, it proved popular enough that nobody could stamp on it hard enough. The occasional Superior still tries. Essentially, the Song allows the user to do the celestial equivalent of grabbing a whole handful of the universe, pulling it back to the breaking point and then releasing it. The resulting cacophony is very loud and does very interesting things to reality. "Interesting" in a Chinese-curse sort of way, of course. The most obvious effect is that, once the Song takes effect, _all_ resonances, Attunements, Distinctions, Songs and/or relics within the area of effect must make an immediate activation roll to continue working (the only exceptions being abilities or things that are 'always on'). This roll is at a penalty equal to that of the Song's check digit. Furthermore, any attempt to activate the above for the next ten minutes will have an equal penalty. This won't cause dissonance, but failure to maintain/activate a resonance will cost 1d6 Mind Hits. Also, when reality gets snapped around like a rubber band, reality does odd things until things calm down. Use the check digit to determine how weird things get: a CD of 3 is good for rains of frogs, while spontaneous human combustion should really be reserved for a CD of 6. Out of a vestigal sense of fair play, the GM is most solemnly warned against using this opportunity to fuel his or her twisted impulses. Finally, several really brave (or incredibly stupid) celestials have used this Song as an aid to summoning a Superior. Add the CD to the Invocation roll: subtract the CD from the reaction modifier. The news had _better_ be good. Essence Required: 7 Area of Effect: Essence spent squared, in yards Disturbance: 2x (Essence times the CD) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:34:06 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Stone Identifications This sounds to me vaguely like an idea that's been had before, but I tried to check the digests and the cgi search script appears wonked. (Upon entering the search function, my browser presented me with the actual search code... go fig.) So, I figured I might as well send my thoughts. Basically, I thought of the word "malachite" and it kind of hit me that Choirs of Stone might identify with particular stones. Angels who were "in uniform" on Earth might carry a small sample of this stone, or prefer tools or relics using these stones when there was a choice, because its properties appealed to that Choir. (Naturally, individual angels might have different views than the general trend.) I pondered a bit and came up with this list. Seraphim Flawless diamonds and transparent crystal; the stones of seers, the stones which do not stand in the way of the light of Truth, but rather efface themselves to better refract it into beauty. Cherubim Geodes; the stones which protect special formations within their sheltering and supporting shells. Ofanim Tigerseye, star opal; the stones with inner fire that change as they move, yet retain their solid nature. (Another possibility: radioactive ores.) Elohim Ores of iron, copper, and other metals; less beautiful, or hard, than other stones, but of the most use and purpose. (They wouldn't carry such a stone for decoration, but perhaps as a subtle identifier if needed, or as a lesson to a human on, e.g., shaping and refinement for strength and purpose.) Malakim Obsidian, malachite; obsidian is the sharp-edged stone formed from the violence of the volcano capable of being worked into weaponry, not to mention reminiscent of their wings. Malachite, besides these days being the English pun, is also thus reminiscent of their green hues. Kyriotates Sedimentaries, agglomerates; stones which take many natures and bring them together in a diverse unit. (Also a stone of which it's easy to find a sample in almost any environment to carry when in a new human host.) Mercurians Graphite, chalk; as stones, they are weak, but their very softness is their strength as they are used to write, helping humans to teach and communicate. Grigori Salt. At first, it was for the zest and flavor of life's necessities; these days, if any Stone watchers remain (it was the angels of Stone who hunted them down in the first place), they may say that it is for the tears and bitterness of the testing which is an essential part of life -- but they still remember that salt flows in the blood of both their Vessels and their beloved humans. You might be able to do the same for some of the other Words -- Choirs of the Sword might have preferred blade styles, for example. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Subject: IN> The official word has been given, it seems.... Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:10:11 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> The official word has been given, it seems.... >So, it's mixed news, naturally. The hiatus *is* >official, but the phrasing is specific rather than >vague when it comes to the future. New stuff "WILL" >come, but it's not known when. > >So, I'd say the next big publication will be Moe's >Tattered Symphony net.book. (blinking at the publication bit) Why do you think that I ran with it when everybody decided to join in? I was expecting one, maybe two people to show an interest - _not_ a whole horde of people ready to write the blessed thing for me. :) >Hey Moe -- what's the time frame on the playtesting >phase? > Well... it all depends. The Superiors are mostly between 'done' and 'seriously getting there', the mechanics are ticking along: once the setting gets explicitly written out, the rest is fluff. I'm _hoping_ that the material posted on the Web will be enough for a playable campaign by the end of the month, but I ain't paying anyone for this, so there's a limit to how much firepower I can bring to bear. :) As to how long before it's done, done? Probably never: adding to the complexity of a campaign world is one of the joys of life. Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:12:50 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Patience At 5:39 PM -0500 2/12/01, Jo Hart wrote: >The main thing is that it should be a Malakite, because Patience is a Virtue. > >;) > >jo Ow... pain... great pain.... But *that* sets me off on a Virtuous rant! See, Patience *isn't* a Heavenly Virtue if you go by the Augustine listings. It would fall under one of the big Seven. Which, by the list I've been using for -- well, call it 'special things,' is Temperance, Prudence, Fortitude, Justice, Faith, Hope and Charity. (Love is often used in place of Charity, but the whole 'Faith, Hope and Charity' thing is so ingrained it seems prudent -- there's that word -- to use it.) If those are the High Seven Virtues, then Patience, being a virtue, should fall under one of them. Let's examine how they break down, shall we? TEMPERANCE: One could make a case for this, but Temperance is really about moderation or restraint, especially against appetites and passions. (The Angel of Temperance would be Haagenti's special enemy, and wouldn't much like Andrealphus either.) Patience fits that, but perhaps not perfectly. PRUDENCE: As defined, the ability to govern oneself by reason instead of passion, along with a healthy dollop of wisdom and sagacity. So, we may have a winner here. Certainly, a patient man shows prudence over passion. FORTITUDE: It seems likely Fortitude would imply patience as well -- holding out even in the face of temptation and all that, and no matter what adversity is implied, one must have the patience to see it through. I think Fortitude would be at least as acceptable as Temperance for these purposes. Also -- it's worth noting that the Angel of Fortitude, Magog, was not a Malakite despite it being one of the Big Virtues. I wonder if that mistake was made again... (assuming Magog's Word didn't predate the Fall, of course.) JUSTICE: Hm. While a Just man would have to *apply* patience and *use* patience, could we really say that Patience is itself innate to Justice? Sometimes, Justice must be swift and all that. This one's getting the downcheck for a potential Patience home. FAITH: Ahh... Faith. What is Faith without patience, mm? This seems like a nice solid possibility, both for the patience acceptance of the world's travails in anticipation of rewards in the hereafter, and for patiently having faith in another rather than panicking and leaving abandoning that faith. So, patience could easily fall under Faith, at least in it's broader sense. Besides, as we all know, Faith Manages. And good management requires Patience. HOPE: See above. Hope implies a belief that if one can hang on, the hoped-for result may yet happen. That's practically a credo for Patience, if you think about it. One counsels patience to those who might be losing hope in eventual justice of some sort. So, a natural fit here. CHARITY: I don't really see this one. To be charitable or loving of one's fellow man doesn't require the same insistant levels of patience that Prudence, Faith or Hope do. In fact, one can be rampently charitable but not prudent, leading to losing everything in an orgy of helping others. In Celestial Circles, this is called the "M.C. Hammer" principle. So, in conclusion, the Heavenly Virtues that an Angel of Patience might serve most specifically are the Angels of Prudence, Faith and Hope, followed somewhat afterward by Fortitude and Temperance, and then (distantly) Justice and Charity. Interestingly, Fortitude was held by a Kyriotate who Fell (Magog) though the APG refers to a Malakite Angel of Fortitude without naming him, Hope is held by Emmanuel, the first of the Menunim (who hasn't Fallen but who still isn't a Malakite), and Faith is held by an Elohite who almost Fell. Charity *is* held by a Malakite (unnamed, APG p.50) -- and I wonder if that Malakite wasn't a Servitor of Love before the Fall. There are no known Angels of Prudence or Temperance. So, all told, the Virtues aren't all *that* well represented by the Virtues (and I'd call into question the unnamed Malakim who hold some of the above. Heck, Magog probably slaughtered the Malakite Angel of Fortitude as a matter of course after being freed.) Where am I going with all this? Um... splunge. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:33:30 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Stone Identifications William J. Keith wrote: > Malakim > Malachite, besides these days being > the English pun, is also thus reminiscent of their green hues. What greenish hues? > Mercurians > Graphite, chalk; as stones, Not quicksilver? I.e. mercury? (What IS the connection between the metal or planet and the choir?) For Flowers: Seraphim: Water lily, that is lotus, emblem of enlightenment. Cherubim: Chestnut blossoms, since the tree produces a nut with a hard, protective shell as well as a pretty flower. Ophanim: Wreathes, wheels of flowers Elohim: Grass. It has flowers; they just aren't showy. Malakim: Thistles, or insectivorous flowers like Venus' Flytrap Kyriotates: Daisies or other Compositae (flowers made of lots of smaller flowers) Mercurians: Cultivated roses, flowers made by humans Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:40:20 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Technology gadget Essence Magnifier This one impressed some people. The bugs are hardly even noticeable. It's even reported that Lucifer himself showed up at the unveiling of the artifact to congratulate Vapula. (Why? Because, if you want to include this artifact in your campaign, it represents an actual significant advance in Vapula's understanding of the Symphony, which is after all what he's there for.) The Essence Magnifier is a small computer chip surrounded with odd magnetic cores and wires all held in place with a thin steel frame; total, about 1 square inch in area, and a few millimeters high. It must be integrated with a being's nervous system in order to work. This requires surgery, in which the device is attached to a Vessel's (or human's) nervous system. Yes, experimentation shows it can be applied to animals which have been granted some Essence control, but they had better be *very* well-trained. (In game terms, to get any use from the device, the character must pay the necessary points, and undergo the surgery.) The device must be externally visible (uncovered) in order to work. It will work, and be visible, on the character's celestial form. The effect is quite simple: displaying the device and expending Essence will cause the Essence expended to be multiplied by some factor in the action being thus boosted. Those in the know theorize that the device makes "displaying and willingly using a piece of technological equipment surgically integrated with one's body" an infinitely reusable Rite of Technology; angelic test subjects are currently being sought to determine whether using the relic causes Dissonance in order to test this hypothesis. (Should they succeed, then using the device *is* Dissonant for angels, although whether it's because the device imparts a demonic Rite is up to the GM. Fortunately, an intelligent user can choose not to activate the device's magnification ability, even after implantation. Removing the device non-surgically requires 1d of damage to the part affected; most demons will prefer the implant being on the arm, just in case.) The bad news is that it's not the most efficient converter. The scaling factor is between 1 and 2; in other words, a single Essence will act like 1.1, or 1.9 Essence, or some other value, depending on the version in use. The "2 Essence threshold" is a subject of much debate within Technology's ranks. Many subscribe to the hypothesis that some waste will always be necessary, a la the Second Law of Thermodynamics. They don't really know, of course. The Essence-scaling power of the device, and thus the points required to use it, are up to the GM. Multiple scaling factors might exist in a single campaign as Vapula inproves the device; they might be tougher to make(requiring more character points in order to be accepted for the surgery) and/or require more cumbersome implants. At a scaling factor of 1(1/9) ("one and one-ninth, or 1.1111....), the user is required to expend 9 Essence in order to get 10 Essence applied to the action in question. At a scaling factor of 1(1/8), spend eight Essence to get 9, and so forth. Up until that much Essence is expended, there's not quite the extra measure of Essence required to increase the abilities of most Songs and actions(dice don't have decimal places), but if the GM desires to make the artifact slightly more effective he can consider fractions when determing ranges and durations. It will really start being useful when the Essence required is less than half of a normal demon's supply: at a scaling factor of 1.25, four Essence will get you five. (Impudites of Technology will notice a salutory effect before this, of course.) At 1.5, two Essence gets you 3, and things start getting really fun. Note an interesting irrational value that might be a typical peak efficiency for the device: 1.6449...= (pi squared)/6, which is a weird number that's right up Vapula's alley. The 2 Essence threshold is really only for game balance and uniqueness purposes, since then not only is the relic very effective, you're also basically duplicating or bettering the Vapmeister's Impudite attunement. (And *combining* the two... well, there you are.) If you want one, and a character is willing to, oh, say, have half the top of his skull replaced with a mass of steel and computer circuitry, hey, have a ball. Lastly, there's Lightning. Jean *will* be bothered by Vapula's creation of this device -- he knows what it represents in terms of Symphonic knowledge. Capturing a demon with such a device implanted (or at least removing it without damage to the device itself) can be an adventure priority. If you desire to balance the relic with something similar on Heaven's side, then once Lightning has had time to study it, they can produce a similar device; I suggest allowing the device to be implanted internally (uses bio-electricity, possibly a Rite of Lightning). William ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2001 11:39:30 -0800 From: Casca Subject: IN> Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! I sent this on Thursday, and nobody replied. I talked to Whistling and he said it didn't show up in his mail. Checking the list archive shows it was posted, though. I dunno. Anyway, WitD suggests I repost these, so here they are. - ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Subject: Happy Tu B'Shevat! To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com From: Casca Date: 08 Feb 2001 17:48:38 PST In honor of Jewish Arbor Day, I present two attunements for Flowers. Bloom! (with apologies to Principia Discordia) By spending Essence, the angel may render a firearm inoperative: a flower blooms from the barrel, roots entwined throughout the firing mechanism. Only completely stripping and cleaning the gun will return it to firing status; simply clearing the breech is insufficient. The Essence required for this attunement is variable. To figure its cost, take the Power of the weapon and divide by two. That is the Essence needed to render the gun inoperable. Theoretically, this attunement may be used on any weapon with a muzzle. Practically, there is an upper limit at which the Essence cost becomes prohibitive. Anything man-portable (approximately an M-60 in size) may be affected normally; larger weapons, such as .50 machineguns, anti-aircraft cannons and field artillery typically require an Essence output beyond the capacity of the angel. (Generous GMs may, if they wish, extend this ability to explosives as well. In this case, the bomb explodes in a harmless shower of flower petals.) As an additional ability, an angel may use this attunement to encourage growth in plant life. Treat as either a Song of Corporeal Healing or Entropy, as appropriate, with the angel’s Ethereal Forces serving as the CD. This use costs no Essence and generates no Disturbance. Leavesdropping An angel of Flowers with this attunement may cast her perceptions through a living flower to a range of her Ethereal Forces in tens of meters. Only one type of plant may be so monitored, and it *must* be of a species that blooms! Freshly cut flowers will suffice, but the attunement will work only so long as they are alive; perception penalties may be assessed as withering occurs. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com - ------- End of forwarded message ------- - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:32:38 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! I didn't get this initially, but it was in the log, so here's some comments. At 4:16 AM -0800 2/12/01, Eric Bertish wrote: > >In honor of Jewish Arbor Day, I present two attunements for Flowers. > Speaking of which -- is it me, or did the people who made the Peter Graves/Comedy Central add clearly have access to the In Nomine calendar? >Bloom! >(with apologies to Principia Discordia) > >By spending Essence, the angel may render a firearm inoperative: a >flower blooms from the barrel, roots entwined throughout the firing >mechanism. Only completely stripping and cleaning the gun will >return it to firing status; simply clearing the breech is >insufficient. My immediate thought is of Louie the Lilac from the Batman TV series, I hope you realize. >Anything man-portable (approximately an M-60 in size) may be >affected normally; larger weapons, such as .50 machineguns, >anti-aircraft cannons and field artillery typically require an >Essence output beyond the capacity of the angel. Mm -- I'd rather just restrict it to man-portable weaponry, period. A few Reliquaries shouldn't be enough to make a gigantic sunflower blooming out of the U.S.S. North Dakota's 16" gun. >As an additional ability, an angel may use this attunement to >encourage growth in plant life. Treat as either a Song of Corporeal >Healing or Entropy, as appropriate, with the angel’s Ethereal Forces >serving as the CD. This use costs no Essence and generates no >Disturbance. I'd make this a seperate attunement -- they're too different in their execution to be covered for the same ten points. >Leavesdropping > >An angel of Flowers with this attunement may cast her perceptions >through a living flower to a range of her Ethereal Forces in tens of >meters. Only one type of plant may be so monitored, and it *must* be >of a species that blooms! Freshly cut flowers will suffice, but the >attunement will work only so long as they are alive; perception >penalties may be assessed as withering occurs. Does the Angel continue to have perceptions in his original body, or are they entirely focused on what the flower sees and hears? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2001 12:12:32 -0800 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! On Mon, 12 February 2001, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Speaking of which -- is it me, or did the people who made the Peter > Graves/Comedy Central add clearly have access to the In Nomine > calendar? *I* think so... > >Bloom! > > My immediate thought is of Louie the Lilac from the Batman TV series, > I hope you realize. Um? I have no idea who this person is. I assume you're talking about the Adam West series, which was before my time. > Mm -- I'd rather just restrict it to man-portable weaponry, period. A > few Reliquaries shouldn't be enough to make a gigantic sunflower > blooming out of the U.S.S. North Dakota's 16" gun. First, I doubt most angels are going to run into this kind of ordnance in a regular campaign, so I don't think it's much of an issue. Second, the Essence output for a battleship gun should be horrific. I mean, the shells alone weigh as much as a Volkswagon... Third, if an angel *really* wants to stop the gun, there's nothing stopping them from carving it up with a flaming sword or whatnot at significantly reduced Essence cost. Fourth, I *like* the idea of a Gardener stymieing a battleship crew. ;) > >As an additional ability, an angel may use this attunement to > >encourage growth in plant life. Treat as either a Song of Corporeal > >Healing or Entropy, as appropriate, with the angel’s Ethereal Forces > >serving as the CD. This use costs no Essence and generates no > >Disturbance. > > I'd make this a seperate attunement -- they're too different in their > execution to be covered for the same ten points. Really? They both deal with causing flowers to grow at accelerated rates. ;) Okay, okay. But this application is pure chrome, really. While it makes great sense for any Florist to have it, the chances of it becoming critical for gameplay are absurd. (Unless you have Moe as a GM, in which case plots like "We must ensure the survival of this endangered hibiscus across Death Valley" become routine. ;) > >Leavesdropping > > Does the Angel continue to have perceptions in his original body, or > are they entirely focused on what the flower sees and hears? Good question. I'd say focused, actually, though I'd allow mixing and matching, i.e. looking out of his vessel's eyes but listening through the flower. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:02:12 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casca" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:12 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! [snip] > > Mm -- I'd rather just restrict it to man-portable weaponry, period. A > > few Reliquaries shouldn't be enough to make a gigantic sunflower > > blooming out of the U.S.S. North Dakota's 16" gun. > First, I doubt most angels are going to run into this kind of ordnance in > a regular campaign, so I don't think it's much of an issue. Well, you never know what those servitors of Belial will get up to... *g* (There is a certain subsegment of roleplayer that firmly believes that there is no such thing as overkill.) > Second, the Essence output for a battleship gun should be horrific. > I mean, the shells alone weigh as much as a Volkswagon... Well, the attunement specifies "Divide the power of the gun by two, and that's the Essence cost to jam it." Given that a single 16-inch HC (the high-explosive one, not the AP one) shell carries 154 lbs. of explosive [1] as the bursting charge on top of the other 1,750 lbs. or so of shell casing... well, the manufacturer guarantees you a lethal fragmentation area of about 200 yards x 200 yards on a surface fuse, or a crater 35-50 feet in diameter and 20 feet deep on a .05 second delay fuse... ... errr, translating that into IN terms, the only Power figures I can even vaguely estimate here are the ones that say that the only Gardener who'll have enough Essence to actually pull this one off is Novalis herself. [1] Still haven't found out exactly which explosive they use, but it's almost certainly something that has more explosive yield per pound than TNT -- shell filler is always the *good* stuff, because you want to get the most bang out of the limited volume you have available. Of course, if it's the AP shell it's loaded with, then you've got to figure out what the Power is of a projectile attack that can penetrate up to 36 feet of steel-reinforced concrete at short range... eeep! > Third, if an angel *really* wants to stop the gun, there's nothing stopping them from carving it up with a flaming sword or whatnot at significantly reduced Essence > cost. Eeep again! Do you really *want* to wave a flaming sword through the breech of something that uses over 650 lbs. of bagged gunpowder per tube? *BOOM* > Fourth, I *like* the idea of a Gardener stymieing a battleship crew. ;) Yeah, except that she really oughn't to try it this way... in normal usage, 16-inch guns are fired remotely from the Fire Direction Center... IOW, the fact that you just jammed the barrel with huge growing vines probably *won't* stop them from pulling the trigger anyway, because the turret crew is there just to load the darn thing -- they don't get to make firing decisions unless the turret is freed to local control, which don't happen too often. Do you even *want* to think about what happens when you try to fire a 16-inch Mark 7 when there's a vine the size of a small tree plugging the barrel? I guarantee you this -- whatever happens next, it *won't* be gentle. If you're an angel and you want to stop a battleship from firing, use something that affects the mind of the captain or the gunnery officer. *Physically* trying to gum up the works... errr, you *don't* walk up and try to violently interrupt mechanisms that are busy tossing around several thousand pounds of propellant and HE shell at high speed. You just don't. *wince* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:12:17 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Charles Glasgow writes: > > If you're an angel and you want to stop a battleship from firing, use > something that affects the mind of the captain or the gunnery officer. > *Physically* trying to gum up the works... Two words for how to stop it: Corporeal Shields. Have to sing it just before they fire, but still... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:17:44 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! At 3:02 PM -0600 2/12/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >[1] Still haven't found out exactly which explosive they use, but it's >almost certainly something that has more explosive yield per pound than >TNT -- shell filler is always the *good* stuff, because you want to get the >most bang out of the limited volume you have available. Back in my Navy Indoc days, they described it, as Casca did, as "Volkswagon Beetles." It's a powerfully evocotive image. "Imagine you're ten miles inland. You're sitting at home. Suddenly, you hear a noise. You look up. Why -- it's a Volkswagon Beetle, flying through the air, straight at your house. "Now imagine it hitting. "Oh, and then imagine it *explodes.* "Welcome to the Navy." - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:23:52 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:12 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! > Charles Glasgow writes: > > > > If you're an angel and you want to stop a battleship from firing, use > > something that affects the mind of the captain or the gunnery officer. > > *Physically* trying to gum up the works... > > Two words for how to stop it: Corporeal Shields. > > Have to sing it just before they fire, but still... ... you just killed whoever was on the inside of that Shield. Thoroughly. For Servitors of Flowers, at least, vaping the turret crew is usually a bit of a no-no... The problem, you see, isn't just stopping the gun from firing -- it's stopping the gun from firing without having the sucker go *BOOM* because somebody jammed up the works. Tube artillery tends to get a bit tetchy if it's subjected to unexpected bangs, thumps, knocks, or flames... all that propellant, ya know. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:23:32 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! At 9:12 PM +0000 2/12/01, prodigal@ticnet.com wrote: >Charles Glasgow writes: > > >Two words for how to stop it: Corporeal Shields. > >Have to sing it just before they fire, but still... It's a great function for a Kyriotate of Flowers, possessing a seagull and sitting on the turret, and simultaneously possessing the snapdragon someone thoughtfully put in the battle room. (All right, no one would do that, but work with me here -- unless we just say 'possessing the officer of the watch.') So, the Captain gives the firing orders, and the Kyriotate times the Song just about perfectly, and *BOOM,* the turret explodes, killing the fire control crew and blowing apart a good sized chunk of the deck-- All right, not a Kyriotate of Flowers. Let's try War.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2001 13:44:50 -0800 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! On Mon, 12 February 2001, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > So, the Captain gives the firing orders, and the Kyriotate times the > Song just about perfectly, and *BOOM,* the turret explodes, killing > the fire control crew and blowing apart a good sized chunk of the > deck-- Sounds an awful lot what happened a few years back with... USS Iowa? Idaho? One of those midwestern state battleships. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:40:06 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! > So, the Captain gives the firing orders, and the Kyriotate times the > Song just about perfectly, and *BOOM,* the turret explodes, killing > the fire control crew and blowing apart a good sized chunk of the > deck-- > > All right, not a Kyriotate of Flowers. Let's try War.... The Kyriotate of Flowers would wait until a split second after the gun fired, and sing the Song of Shields so that it surrounds the projectile. :-) Sort of an angelic equivelent to lying down in front of a tank... > Eric Alfred Burns - Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:49:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Sounds like what you want is a Kyrio of Lightning who is sympathetic to the Flowerchild's goals, or a Kyrio of Flowers with a Kyrio of Lightning attunement. Then the Kyrio possesses the GUN and simply refuses to fire. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2057 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.