From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Feb 12 20:37:32 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31932 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:37:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA14935 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:40:26 -0600 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:40:26 -0600 Message-Id: <200102130240.UAA14935@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2058 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, February 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2058 In this digest: Re: IN> Stone Identifications Re: IN> Free Lilim and Servants Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! OT: Big ships (was Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat!) Re: IN> Healing question Re: Big ships (was Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat!) Re: IN> Question about Wrath of God IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) Re: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) IN Angel Recognition [Re: IN> Stone Identifications] Re: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) Re: IN> HeartViews - Artifact Re: IN> Angels in the Architecture Re: IN> Re: Hardcore or "What's Lucifer's deal with stupid Princes?" Re: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) IN> Re: Demogorgon IN> A Theory of Kronos Re: IN> Stone Identifications IN> In> The Oathbreaker Re: IN> Stone Identifications Re: IN> In> The Oathbreaker Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:55:05 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Stone Identifications >William J. Keith wrote: > >> Malakim >> Malachite, besides these days being >> the English pun, is also thus reminiscent of their green hues. > >What greenish hues? *checks the Malakite writeup again* Hunh. For some reason I had the image that the wings of Malakim were shiny black, with deep greenish refraction. Oh well. They may just appreciate the name, then, instead of identifying with it. That would leave obsidian. >> Mercurians >> Graphite, chalk; as stones, > >Not quicksilver? I.e. mercury? (What IS the connection between >the metal or planet and the choir?) Hmm, interesting choice. I hadn't thought of that one. It might indeed fall under David's aegis, although since it's liquid at room temperature it might be in Oannes' realm instead. As for the planet, I think it's a holdover from the days when theology, astrology, and astronomy were all overlapping. If I recall correctly, the Church liked the Copernican model of the universe as concentric crystal spheres since beyond the outer shell of the fixed stars there was plenty of room for Heaven and Hell. Orders of angels were associated with each sphere, which in turn each were set up for one major astronomical body. Hence, e.g., the sphere of Mercury. >Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:04:40 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Free Lilim and Servants > > Given Lilith's Word, I find it hard to believe > > she would condone her Servitors having > > Servants in the traditional sense. > > No, but long-term contracts would be fine. I also note that Liber Servitorum says that servants, even if they think they don't have a choice, willingly submitted to being a Servant. There is Free Will involved in becoming a Servant. This isn't much different from a Lilim pledging to a Prince, really, and I think Lilith (and Lilim) would be okay with that. -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:45:21 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Charles Glasgow writes: > > > Charles Glasgow writes: > > > > > > If you're an angel and you want to stop a battleship from firing, use > > > something that affects the mind of the captain or the gunnery officer. > > > *Physically* trying to gum up the works... > > > > Two words for how to stop it: Corporeal Shields. > > > > Have to sing it just before they fire, but still... > > ... you just killed whoever was on the inside of that Shield. > Thoroughly. OK, I guess we'll just have to leave that one as a Shedite of Death trick after all. Unless we could find a way of just preventing the gunpowder from igniting... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:17:01 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! For once, Lightning could do something really subtly: Jean's Remote Control Attunement; and simply refuse to let it fire. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:16:41 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Wajenberg" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! > Sounds like what you want is a Kyrio of Lightning who is > sympathetic to the Flowerchild's goals, or a Kyrio of Flowers > with a Kyrio of Lightning attunement. Then the Kyrio > possesses the GUN and simply refuses to fire. Yes, that'd be the safest way. "The firecontrol system says... no." - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:01:29 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! At 1:44 PM -0800 2/12/01, Casca wrote: >On Mon, 12 February 2001, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> So, the Captain gives the firing orders, and the Kyriotate times the >> Song just about perfectly, and *BOOM,* the turret explodes, killing >> the fire control crew and blowing apart a good sized chunk of the >> deck-- > >Sounds an awful lot what happened a few years back with... USS Iowa? >Idaho? One of those midwestern state battleships. IIRC, that was actually a missile assembly that blew -- most battleships were retrofitted with some missile assemblies (and now most of them -- all? Ask ChuckG -- I think he keeps more current than I -- are decommissioned anyhow) to keep up with the times. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:05:47 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! At 4:49 PM -0500 2/12/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Sounds like what you want is a Kyrio of Lightning who is >sympathetic to the Flowerchild's goals, or a Kyrio of Flowers >with a Kyrio of Lightning attunement. Then the Kyrio >possesses the GUN and simply refuses to fire. Are we still talking 16" guns on battleships? Or firearms, here? Battleship assemblies would take quite a few Forces to possess -- they'd have to possess the entire turret, and even then, in a modern battleship, the computers are controlling the firing. So instead, it possesses the computer, but then the manual fire control crew takes over and fires manually. Battleships are big, complex affairs. (Too complex, in ways -- it's one reason they're being rotated out of service.) It's probably a better idea to move through and suborn the crew in other ways, for angels. As for demons.... well, a Calabite of Fire anywhere *near* the ammunition stores could *really* ruin the ship's day.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! "Charles Glasgow" wrote > For Servitors of Flowers, at least, vaping the turret crew is usually a > bit of a no-no... > > The problem, you see, isn't just stopping the gun from firing -- it's > stopping the gun from firing without having the sucker go *BOOM* because > somebody jammed up the works. Technology? Enlist a servitor of Jean. He'll use Remote Control. It's /sick/ when other people are using guns. A scene from Rhodri's campaign: You're a human sorcerer, and you know you're on the run from someone - not quite sure who, but after what you've just done, Heaven and Hell will both want to ask Questions. You're in a hotel room. There's a knock on the door, so you pick up your gun, and concealing it behind your back, you open it the door. The chambermaid kicks you for a surprising amount of damage, and there's a motorbike messenger and someone in overalls behind her, so you figure this is trouble, aim the gun and pull the trigger. Click. The safety is on. You swear, and take it off. Before your eyes, it sets itself on again. At this point, you /know/ you're in deeper trouble than you believed possible. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! "Charles Glasgow" wrote: > [1] Still haven't found out exactly which explosive they use, but it's > almost certainly something that has more explosive yield per pound than > TNT -- shell filler is always the *good* stuff, because you want to get > the most bang out of the limited volume you have available. In WWII, it actually was TNT. HE was for shore bombardment, which means you have time to plaster the place, and maximum effect from one shell isn't so important. > Of course, if it's the AP shell it's loaded with, then you've got to > figure out what the Power is of a projectile attack that can penetrate > up to 36 feet of steel-reinforced concrete at short range... eeep! The explosive is something trickier in there. I don't know what Ammonium Picrate is like, but it doesn't sound friendly. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:29 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! Whistling in the Dark > At 1:44 PM -0800 2/12/01, Casca wrote: > >Sounds an awful lot what happened a few years back with... USS Iowa? > >Idaho? One of those midwestern state battleships. > > IIRC, that was actually a missile assembly that blew -- most > battleships were retrofitted with some missile assemblies (and now > most of them -- all? Ask ChuckG -- I think he keeps more current than > I -- are decommissioned anyhow) to keep up with the times. No, it was a turret. There was an accident during a firing exercise - and a huge fuss, congressional hearings, suicide theories, and so on. It's a bit complicated. All those ships have been decommissioned now, since they required huge crews and weren't perceived to be used enough. Most of them are due to become museums. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:41:46 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: OT: Big ships (was Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: "Casca" Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:01 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! > At 1:44 PM -0800 2/12/01, Casca wrote: > >Sounds an awful lot what happened a few years back with... USS Iowa? > >Idaho? One of those midwestern state battleships. > > IIRC, that was actually a missile assembly that blew -- most > battleships were retrofitted with some missile assemblies (and now > most of them -- all? Ask ChuckG -- I think he keeps more current than > I -- are decommissioned anyhow) to keep up with the times. The USS _Iowa_ had an explosion in one of its 16-inch turret in 1989. (Somehow, the guns had been fired with the breech still open on one of the tubes... which had about the effects you could expect. Nobody in the turret survived. At first the event was thought to be an act of deliberate sabotage/suicide, but that hypothesis was later shown to have big questions in it. As yet, they still don't know how the heck it happened, or whether it was accidental or deliberate. Even attempts to deliberately recreate parts of the event under laboratory conditions have failed.) I know less details about this one... but in 1991, the USS _Missouri_ apparently had an accident with a Tomahawk missile launcher that resulted in their burning a hole in their deck. (When the missile sticks in the launching tube but still ignites, whatever's behind it is going to get melted.) As far as I know, all of the _Iowa_-class BBs have been decomissioned as of the early 90's. And I'm so far off-topic I'd better stop, right now. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:09:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Healing question At 12:55 PM -0600 2/11/01, David Edelstein wrote: >Pak Chan wrote: >> Would this cause disturbance? I would say yes, but an extremely low level,> no more than a murmur. A Grigori might be able to detect it if sufficiently> close. (Which is, mechanically, roughly what I suggested as "causes disturbance indirectly, as if causing disturbance via mundane means of mental damage.) >I'm pretty sure it's stated somewhere in canon that Grigori can hear >disturbance from ethereal and celestial damage, and other celestials >cannot. I'm disinclined to look it up right now, but I believe the >former point is stated in G:IN, and the latter in the main rulebook. I think the latter point was established in proto-canon that some of the authors were able to access. It doesn't seem to be in the main rulebook (Blue Hardcover) section on Grigori. (I don't _think_ there's a throwaway comment on it elsewhere... I just checked each reference in the index for anything.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:00:31 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: Big ships (was Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat!) > The USS _Iowa_ had an explosion in one of its 16-inch turret in 1989. > (Somehow, the guns had been fired with the breech still open on one of the > tubes... which had about the effects you could expect. Nobody in the turret > survived. At first the event was thought to be an act of deliberate > sabotage/suicide, but that hypothesis was later shown to have big questions > in it. As yet, they still don't know how the heck it happened, or whether > it was accidental or deliberate. Even attempts to deliberately recreate > parts of the event under laboratory conditions have failed.) A rogue Shedite with a passion for dissonance has been running amok. The party must find him and stop him -- a difficult task, considering the amount of attention each disaster gets, especially with the military being so much against anyone interfering in their investigations. Jean is interested in tracking the Shedite down -- so far the demon has avoided getting any 'sticky' disturbance, and there have been so many explosions that it can't just be a coincidence. A new infernal artifact may be on the loose... which adds a third set of hands meddling in the problem as a band of demons working for Vapula are *also* hunting the Shedite down. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:19:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about Wrath of God At 2:08 AM -0600 2/10/01, Bradley Paranial wrote: >Heres how I read the attunement: > >Spend 3 Esscence and the Damage on your next attack Against a Faithless >Human or Demon is doubled. (After all modifiers. Once had an NPC do about 48 >body hits damage with the bloody thing). > >So is it the next attack that hits or the attack that imediatly follows >activating the attument, and missing or or having it sucessfully blocked >meaning you just wasted Esscence? Hmmmmmmmm............. If the attack was _blocked_ (i.e., the Dodge skill was invoked with the effect of "blocked or parried"), I'd be inclined to dump all that damage into the blocking/parrying item. Which might have "blow-through." ("You put your shield between the scimitar and yourself -- it bursts through the sheild, momentem barely impaired...") If the attack were dodge-Dodged (i.e., the person got out of the way), I would be inclined to let the Wrath of God attunement remain in effect -- you didn't hit anything, so all that force didn't disapate. This is not a canon ruling, because it's too bloody complicated and basically boils down to "GM's Option," but it is the path that I'm thinking about, and would start to follow if, for some icky reason, I absolutely _HAD_ to make a canon ruling on it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:31:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) At 11:27 AM -0800 2/10/01, Kelly Pedersen wrote: [KA-CHOP! (All, please note my draconic snippage of quoted material.*)] >[...] What, exactly, does the Heart show? Does it >show what you are seeing right then? Does it show a >sort of bird's eye view of the area you are? Does it >show a map of the world with an X in your location? GM's option. I generally favor, personally, either "what you're seeing" or "bird's eye view." Of course, if you have the right Songs, or are a Superior, that means you can _go_ there, even if you don't get an instant awareness of, "He's at 31st and Main, in West Dakota, Rhode Island." >Further, does a Heart let an examiner _hear_ what's >going on around the Heart's owner? More GM's option. I generally say no, because that's a little too powerful and there'd be a reliever of Judgment sitting around with a little stenographer machine at each Creationer Heart they could find... Of course, there's always lip-reading. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:22:42 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:31 PM Subject: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) > >Further, does a Heart let an examiner _hear_ what's > >going on around the Heart's owner? > > More GM's option. I generally say no, because that's > a little too powerful and there'd be a reliever of > Judgment sitting around with a little stenographer > machine at each Creationer Heart they could find... As is, Dominic still ought to have a Reliever sitting around watching each Creationer Heart (or at least the more senior ones, and especially the ones not IST other Archangels...) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:33:37 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN Angel Recognition [Re: IN> Stone Identifications] - -----Original Message----- From: William J. Keith To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, February 12, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: IN> Stone Identifications >You might be able to do the same for some of the other Words -- Choirs of >the Sword might have preferred blade styles, for example. In regards for Stone, I like to think of their Cherubim as large, stone-looking beasts, like bulls, rhinos, bears, etc. I like this idea. Let's see if I can't come up with some more looks. The Sword. Major theme: metals, armors and blades. Wings tend to be metallic, the feathers looking like sharp blades. Seraphim: Golden snakes in segmented armor with sharp, venomless fangs. Their tail ends in a narrow blade, like a whip dagger. They'd favor styles like Kenjutsu, which focus on precise blows hitting true. Cherubim: Anthropomorphic Predators, like Lions, Tigers and Bears (Oh My). Wolves and Hounds, beasts known for loyalty, are also appropriate. They'd favor a defense style, taking blows upon themselves to protect others. Ofanim: Circular Saw blades and Throwing Stars, of course. They'd favor making wide circular motions in battle, fighting hong-kong Wuxia style. Elohim: These Powers have skins of cold metal, segmented almost like a form-fitting armor. They favor more precise and scientific fencing over other forms of sword-fighting. Malakite: Dressed in armors of black leather and dark Iron, these Virtues mirror their Archangel in every aspect. They favor large broadswords and claymores, the better to use powerful strikes with. Kyriotates: Standard looking, only with a metallic sheen to all it's elements; the limbs showing within it's cloudy form tend to be armored and/or holding blades. Optionally, Kyrios of the Sword might like more humanoid shapes, looking like animated suits of armors with varying numbers of limbs. Dominations of the Sword don't favor any perticular sword technique over others, but prefer using their many hosts to make group attacks. Since they still consider themselves one warrior, no matter how many hosts they have, they don't see such tactics as dishonorable. Mercurians: Humans with suits of chainmail or other light armor. They favor demonstration/sport styles of swordsmanship, like sports fencing or kendo. Fire. Major Theme: Firey skin and glowing flame auras. Wings tend to be made out of pure flame. Seraphim: Snakes of Fire, with glowing red eyes. The only thing that burns greater then their accusing stares are their auras and wings of flame. Cherubim: Beasts with firey manes and burning eyes. They burn with a warm flame, which flares into a firestorm when someone threatens their attuned. Ofanim: These Wheels DEFINE the image of Wheels of Fire. Some newer Ofanim favor the look of a stylized Atom, so as to emphasise the energetic nature of their Mistress. Elohim: These Powers glow brightly, their cores shining like firey stars, their flames never waxing or waning, remaining as steady as their objectivity. Malakim: Dark skinned like most blackwings, their bodies would have visible veins all over, glowing brightly like molten lava showing through stone. Their hair, wings and eyes burn of a brighter flame, however. Kyriotates: These Dominations look like Elementals of Fire, with bodies made of smokeless flame, with eyes of fire burning brighter then the rest of their forms. Mercurians: Always looking like blond or red haired humans. War Major Theme: Power, Blood, Scars, Strength. Seraphim: Large, powerful snakes like Pythons. Cherubim: Big Predators, like Tigers, Bears and Mastiffs. Ofanim: Large and spiked-looking wheels of flame, constantly flaring with sparks of flames looking for targets. Elohim: Humanoid warriors, well-muscled but slim, always moving precisly, always observing their surroundings. Most are expert Martial Artists. Malakim: Almost like Malakim of the Sword, but less armored. They tend to pay more attention to their surroundings, always prepared for when their attunments go off. Kyriotates: These, unlike your average Dominations, actually have a set humanoid form in the core of their bodily clouds, which is that of their Vessel. Their other organs hover around their main vessel, revolving in changing orbits. Mercurians: Slim and well muscled like action heroes, Friends of Man of War aren't warriors by profession, but they stay in shape and if necessary, can fight with the best of them. Well, those are all the ones I could think of right now. I may do more later on. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:44:00 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) > GM's option. I generally favor, personally, either > "what you're seeing" or "bird's eye view." Of And with Hearts made by Jean, if you tap on the Heart, not only does it make a neat sound, but it switches between modes. Vapula's hearts have a third mode with crosshairs. ;) -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:56:43 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> HeartViews - Artifact > GM's option. I generally favor, personally, either > "what you're seeing" or "bird's eye view." Of This gave me an Artifact idea. Heart Mouse: Jean made a few of these, and Vapula has a few as well, though Vapula's are rumored to have additional "features." A Heart Mouse is a Celestial Artifact that looks like a generic infrared mouse (Jean's are pure white, Vapula's are off-white, sort of cream-colored). Point the Mouse at a Heart, and it allows one, by moving it, to "scroll" the view the Heart is giving, allowing one to see views that the Heart normally doesn't allow. We're talking no more than an additional 45 degrees in any direction, but it's still pretty useful. Track ball versions also exist. The buttons do nothing; rumor is some of Vapula's allow *sound* if you hit the right mouse button -- but the Celestial whose Heart is being spied on instantly knows what's happening, and can hear what's going on back at the Heart. Well, such tradoffs are the nature of Science... At least, that's the rumor anyway. Anyone have a suggestion how much a Artifact like this would be worth, points-wise? Both for the normal and the "rumored" version? Powerful in a way, yet only so useful. -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:26:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angels in the Architecture At 2:50 PM -0500 2/10/01, Mike Bruner wrote: >>Sounds good to me. Say, did you see the Disney series "Gargoyles"? Or, even better, did you see... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Settings/gargoyles.html ? O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:40:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Hardcore or "What's Lucifer's deal with stupid Princes?" At 5:44 AM -0600 2/12/01, Cthulhu wrote: >>2> The Demogorgon > >Okay, I've missed something. Who was this guy? And what book is it in? A powerful demon whose Word I have forgotten; Destruction, I think, but I could be conflating something with Moe's Tattered stuff. Belial toasted him (IIRC) because Belial thought that Demogorgon was going to make Prince and be a danger. (Much as he wants to toast Furfur...) I believe Demogorgon was mentioned in the Infernal Player's Guide, as one of the various... oh, I'm braindead. http://www.incyclopedia.org/ch794.html Page 37 of the IPG. O:p - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:55:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> HeartViews (Re: Angels in the Architecture) At 5:22 PM -0600 2/12/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Elizabeth McCoy" >As is, Dominic still ought to have a Reliever sitting around watching each >Creationer Heart (or at least the more senior ones, and especially the ones >not IST other Archangels...) Well, there is a line about his Servitors having to hide their Hearts where they can... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:53:56 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: Demogorgon >Okay, I've missed something. Who was this guy? And what book is it in? The In Nomine Game Master's Guide mentioned only briefly, the Demogorgon is the Demon Prince of Destruction or would be Demon Prince (much like Magog was *only* the Angel of Fortitude and the Angels of Final Judgement are *only* servitors of Judgement) and was destroyed by Belial because he likely would have subverted Belial to servitor status should he have risen to Full Prince status (Fire is only one aspect of destruction as Belial embodies it) David Edelstein wished to make him a Demon Prince but his publishers I believe were nervous about making so many Superiors that have been destroyed. He like Gebbeleth, Meserach, Mariel, and others are the curiousities that were never written up though someone not too long ago tried writing them all up for the lists...actually I lost those. Does anyone know when/where in the Archives they are or could send me them. Really EDG they should be in the Collection too they were so good. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:02:50 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> A Theory of Kronos I know that I'm going to make up my next few comments just to avoid saying that this is a GREAT post and that you have hit a stroke of genius. A> This perfectly explains how Kronos has a tie to the Symphony without suggesting that God is somehow being corrupted by Lucifer's rebellion or supporting it. B> It fits in neatly with the idea that Vapula is actually a remenant of Raphael that Kronos found and bonded forces too. C> Kronos ISSSssss a Seraph and so was the Metatron (same with Vapula and Raphael) great job. I think whoever publishes at Steve Jackson games should take note of this puppy for a side box to Kronos's origin if they ever get to Games, Fates, Wars, and Pikachu or whatever they call the last supplement Hey this opens an interesting discussion.... Can a Superior be..."seperated" from his Vessel by a relic, song, or attunement? If it's possible might it explain people like Valefor...perhaps Lucifer seperated him from Janus. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:20:35 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> Stone Identifications Hmmm...I thought of some for Destiny and Children (Flowers, my other favorite, was already very evocatively done). :) For Destiny Seraphim History books, long, dry, dusty ones on the back shelves. They tell you the truth, there's just kind of inflexible about it. Cherubim Lullaby books. They draw you into warm, protective relationships and lull you into a slumber of confidence. Ofanim Children's books. They're fast, simple, and fun. Elohim Law books. More dry and dusty than history books, and they rarely tell you anything comprehensible. Malakim Books on weaponry and martial arts. Only interesting to weapon buffs or martial artists, but you never know when one will come in handy. Kyriotates Magazines. They are a montage of images and stories, just like the Dominations. Mercurians Romance novels. They draw people together into cozy relationships. Bright Lilim Why, whatever book you Need, of course! For Children Seraphim Toy computers. They always tell you the Truth of any question asked. Cherubim Teddy bears. They make you feel warm, and they're cuddly and cute too! Ofanim: Race cars! Elohim Wind-up dolls. Completely objective, and hours of fun for all ages. Malakim Action figures. They'll fight evil, stand for justice, and do really wicked poses and shouts too. Kyriotates Legos. Never know what they'll make or do next. Mercurians Beanie Babies, Barbie dolls, and Tickle-me-Elmos. Everyone loves them. Bright Lilim The toy that everyone wants, and no parent can possibly afford. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:14:57 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> In> The Oathbreaker > It says in Superiors 1 that it's rumored that every once in awhile Laurence > will join the Eternal Swords to finish off an especially troublesome demon. > If this guy doesn't qualify, I don't know what does. Thank you very much, my work is apparently done. :-) Theres of course the inevitable Malakim problem that Warlock while a consistant oathbreaker and lying piece of murderous trash is also following his view of honor. It actually might cause (maybe about five seconds for warrior superiors) to wonder whether or not to slay him because of it. After all Hitler wasn't killed by Malakim (Angelic Players Guide) because he was following his code...horrendeous as it was. Now I wonder why they didn't off Stalin.... >And the Hunt attunement that some Swordies carry lets them infallibly track >any being with whom they've engaged in combat, even if only for one round >(and, unless I misunderstand it, even if that 'combat' consisted of your foe >swinging once and you then running away)... and unlike Michaelites, >Swordies have *no* dissonance conditions vs. a strategic retreat, only vs. >disobeying orders... Indeed so. >After this guy's been around awhile, you really think Laurence wouldn't >issue a standing order -- "If you are below [such-and-such] rank in power, >retreat immediately upon knowing that you face this Dark Malakite. If you >have done so and also bear my Hunt attunement, report ASAP to the nearest >senior member of my Order Of The Eternal Sword that you may help a picked >hunting party track him to wherever he may lair." Yeah that's an idea there and an interesting one to PCs say in say Austin or wherever the party is operating out of when they hear of a Malakim gone rogue. Hugable (Olfanim of Janus): I'm telling you this big BLOODY winged black creature dripping in madness came slashing at me and the Demons I was chasing...eessh look at them...wait why do I care? *shrug* I only escaped because of gaseous form and STILL took some vessel damage. Whatzthatiel (Seraph of the Sword): Yeah Laurence has some standing orders on this guy I just recieved, your lucky I mentioned it to him in my weekly report....he just got this LOOK in his eye. Pikachu (Malakim of War-Obese/Short vessel dischord): Dark Malakim...what the &@@! is that? Whatzthatiel: Actually I don't really know....maybe it's like a Dark Jedi. Hugable: Or a fallen...ACK NOT THE SONG OF THUNDER! Pikachu: Nevvvvverr say Fall and Malakim in the same sentence unless you mean corpses to be made. I don't believe it was a Malakim. Hugable: Ow Ow...well whatever you believe let's hope it's still here when the big boys arrive. Whatzthatiel: Anyway I think this place is going to be awfully unpleasant for a few days and if we track down this guy for Laurence he'll be very pleased. All I need to do is engauge him and I'll gave him for good...or so laurence says, it's kinduv hushy. Hugable: That's assuming IT doesn't kill your serpentine fanny. For good. >And that "hunting party" would have something on the order of Peliel, Angel >of Righteous Vengeance (and 18-Force Word-Bound Malakite Master Of The >Armies Of God) leading it at the very *minimum*, assuming that Laurence or >(if you use Moe's characters) Sgt.-Major Samuel wasn't busy that day... Yep it appears if Warlock's ever cornered he's probably going to meet a verrrrrryyyy nasty end. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:45:06 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Stone Identifications - -----Original Message----- From: Charles E Smith To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:15 PM Subject: Re: IN> Stone Identifications >Hmmm...I thought of some for Destiny and Children (Flowers, my other >favorite, was already very evocatively done). :) >Bright Lilim > >Why, whatever book you Need, of course! Blast, I knew I forgot something. My write-ups don't have any Bright Lilims in the group. Could anyone tell me the Bright Lillim attributes for Angels of Sword, War and Fire? I'll include them in my next set of Angel Recognitions. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:47:58 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> In> The Oathbreaker - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Phipps" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:14 PM Subject: IN> In> The Oathbreaker [snip] > After all Hitler wasn't killed by Malakim (Angelic Players Guide) because he > was following his code...horrendeous as it was. Now I wonder why they > didn't off Stalin.... Errrrr... I think that one from the APG was zotzed in some later errata or quasi-canon pronouncement. I have some dim recollection of, the last time that cropped up on this list, of somebody saying that it was a bug from back before Beth's Line Editorship and was corrected/will be corrected in the next upgrade. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:25:46 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! >Click. The safety is on. You swear, and take it off. Before your eyes, it >sets itself on again. At this point, you /know/ you're in deeper trouble >than you believed possible. > > >--- >John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk Okay, here's a question for the professionals. What's Remote Control's effective Strength/ST? If the guy holding the weapon in the above example pushed the safety to "off," and then tried to hold it there against the angel trying to push it back, how would things get resolved? Contest of the angel's operation skill with the device vs. the user's ST? As long as we're hammering the bugs out, what about situations where the machine is in continuous use by another user sending commands continuously? For example, an angel with Remote Control and a kid with an actual remote control trying to wrestle an RC car? To be honest, I'm thinking that you might just give the angel infinite effective strength with the Attunement; it's a heck of an expensive Servitor Attunement if you limit it to possibly not working in the very situations where you'd most need it. An angel should be able to overcome the kid's physical remote control, the driver of a car would simply find that the steering wheel no longer does anything, etc. On the other hand, if a skilled operator can do something tricky that the angel wasn't expecting -- pulls the kill switch that the angel didn't know about so they have to restart the equipment, detaches the joint pin so the angel's left with unmoving blocks of iron... *shrug*. LIS, the professionals are probably the ones that know best how the Attunement should work. ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:34:39 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Keith" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:25 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fwd: Happy Tu B'Shevat! > >Click. The safety is on. You swear, and take it off. Before your eyes, it > >sets itself on again. At this point, you /know/ you're in deeper trouble > >than you believed possible. > Okay, here's a question for the professionals. What's Remote Control's > effective Strength/ST? If the guy holding the weapon in the above example > pushed the safety to "off," and then tried to hold it there against the > angel trying to push it back, how would things get resolved? First off, I'd rule that it's impossible to actually fire the weapon if you're actively wrestling with the safety catch. Call it oh, I dunno, -10 to fire? (Trying to maintain the proper grip and get a sight picture while a piece of your gun is actively wriggling in your hand and you need to keep pushing on the side with some major thumb strength to keep it set has got to be a bear.) Assuming that we had some guy who was willing to make the attempt, then I'd make the switch stay where it was, in the "Fire" position... ... and have the gun jam the very next time it tried to fire. The "line of least resistance that still fulfills the intent of the Attunement user" approach. [snip] > As long as we're hammering the bugs out, what about situations where the > machine is in continuous use by another user sending commands continuously? > For example, an angel with Remote Control and a kid with an actual remote > control trying to wrestle an RC car? I'd say the mortal loses. Of course, given the range of Remote Control, the angel had better stay near the car. A smarter approach for the angel might be to stay near the *remote*... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2058 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.