From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Feb 14 23:29:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20792 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:29:38 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA32652 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:29:47 -0600 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:29:47 -0600 Message-Id: <200102150529.XAA32652@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2061 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, February 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2061 In this digest: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors Re: IN> More on perception vs. will; rolling in games (was "Another new Skill") IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> IN Fanatics going to Aggie-Con? Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors Re: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors Re: IN> Elohim: A Dilemema Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors Re: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) IN> 2 chick urls IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) IN> ADMIN: Check the listrules for updates! Re: IN> February 12, 2001 (ML) RE: IN> 2 chick urls Re: IN> 2 chick urls Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) IN> February 14, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Elohim: A Dilemema Re: IN> February 12, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> February 14, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors IN> God bless you. (snicker) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:23:23 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors >D:) Entropy occurs in a fixed system I just love the way that we apply material physics to something of a spiritual nature. I'll be sure to remind Eli about the law of Conservation of Energy the next time he snaps his fingers and makes something from nothing. That's just me being me. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:35:00 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> More on perception vs. will; rolling in games (was "Another new Skill") At 14:55 13/02/2001 -0500, Eric Alfred Burns wrote: >At 8:48 AM -0500 1/13/01, TJ Howell wrote: >>And, YES, Mr. Edelstein, I DO believe in having my characters make rolls >>for perceiving important things. Character perception and player perception >>are NOT the same. The way I generally model this is that players can >>successfully complete the adventure, even if they do miss all the clues. > >I didn't know this was even a debate. I have my players doing perception >rolls all the time. To notice important details. To overhear the silenced >pistol. To hear the poor Kyriotate in the Squirrel vessel screaming its >fool head off as the Calabim surround it. > >Really, it's hard to succeed well in one of my games with a low >Perception. A low Will only really comes into play when you've got heavy >demonic interaction, and that's not as common as noticing small details, >for my money. Same here. In my experience in _all_ role-playing games, Perception (or the equivalent) is one of the most important skills. It is useful in spotting events, ambushes, targets, and sometimes, avoiding GM-imposed paranoia (botched perception roll => "you think you saw a shadow move"). This applies in the games I play in as well as the games I run. Occasionally, the GM will cheat and let a character see something anyway (when the plot calls for it), but usually, the fact that everyone failed to spot A Really Important Clue That The GM Wants The Party To Get will be worked around in another manner; an NPC lets the party know, they get another chance to spot it, etc. This doesn't always happen, and I do force the party to make "paranoia" rolls (Perception rolls when there is nothing to see) in order to keep them from accidentally using player knowledge (i.e. knowing that something is out there because I called for perception rolls). Pak ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:08:13 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) "Shhhhh! For the sake of all things Holy be quiet." The Seraph eased back into his seat after having to turn around for the tenth time during the meeting. *Bonk*, *shuffle*, *rustle*. "Shhhh!" This time he didn't bother, whoever it was behind him in the Seraphim Council chambers just could not sit still. (Who does he think he his, Janus? He sure doesn't look like an Archangel. I remember the time when you could have a quiet meeting without being interrupted by every Ofanite with the ability to decipher the council meeting schedule.) *Bonk* "Look, if you don't sit still I will report you to your Superior. And don't think I don't know who it is Servitor of Wind." For the first time the blurry figure of the Ofanite slowed down to the beat of humming bird wings. The Seraph watched as a dark shadow extinguished most of the light from the Ofanite's rings. Slowly turning back he found himself face to face with Dominic himself. Words stuck in his throat as he stared into the burning truth of his eyes. "Have respect young Inthriel. He doesn't move to annoy you, he moves because he is Motion." Inthriel's six gemlike eyes fluttered in reasoning for a microsecond and the thought flashed across his Jeanite brain. (The Angel of Motion... no wonder this meeting was harder to decode than the others.) Underneath the black cloak Dominic shivered, the cloak not betraying the movement. (If Marathon is here, that means that Triuwida will be coming. God give me strength.) The Choir Words. Triuwida, Vardare, Marathon, Aequalis, Honorare, Contrarilus and Humane. Seraph, Cherub, Ofanim, Elohim, Malakim, Kyriotate and Mercurian respectively. These angels bear a task so important that they are rarely seen. To most of the Heavenly community they are ghosts. Spoken about in hushed voices in dark corners, openly denied and publicly praised all in the space of a second. Their job is simple, their tasks numerous. They are the bearers of the Choir Words. Triuwida(old German) the Seraph Angel of Truth Vardare(Latin) the Cherub Angel of Devotion Marathon(Greek) the Ofanite Angel of Motion Aequalis(Latin) the Elohite Angel of Balance Honorare(Latin) the Malakite Angel of Honour Contrarilus(ecc Latin) the Kyriotate Angel of Control Humane(Latin) the Mercurian Angel of Interaction The History of the Choir Angels is a mystery. At the beginning of The Fall, just as the echoes of Uriel's birthcry had filtered out of the Symphony a new Malakite popped into existance. Honorare as he was later called fought with great honour in the War against the rebels and when the last of the Demons had left... so did he. Uriel didn't even notice he was gone, he did notice however that he was talking to 6 other Angels before just vanishing into myth. Later as a Mercurian of Destiny was searching through the stacks in Yves' Library he stumbled (by accident... yeah.) across a book of recorded Words. Taking it and retiring to a secluded corner of the shelves he thumbed through it until hitting the Word of Honour. It didn't take him long to click. It took Dominic less time to find him and "debrief" both him and Yves. None of them serve an Archangel directly. They are much to busy to devote themselves to one Archangel's attentions. Each one is force unto themselves. Going from Earth to the Marches to Earth doing what they do. And what do they do? They exist. Therefore the Choirs exist. At least this is one of the more popular theories circulating around Heaven. Usually heard spoken in the Council Spires or in the Library. The reason for this theory (and no-one says that it is True) is that when the Universe was created and the Choirs began to distinguish themselves, the Essence of an Angel's nature was directly controlled by God himself. The Almighty driving Seraphim to find the Truth and the Ofanim to Move. When God stopped talking to Angels and that all to heretical theory of "God is Dead" began to take shape these Angels made themselves known to the general public. Co-incidentily, the first of the Choir Words was Honour.... about the time that Uriel went Malakite. Every single Angel in Heaven is well aware of their existance. They have a connection to them that they can't understand. Every Seraph, it doesn't matter who it is from Michael to the newly fledged can feel Triuwida's presence in the Symphony driving them to the Truth. Every Elohite that tries to step from Balance to Unbalance can feel Aequalis forcing their equilibrium back into order. They can feel them.... they can't explain them. Some don't want to out of fear, others because it takes just that bit more individuality away from the Angelic body as a whole. More Angels have Fallen trying to quantify the existance of the Choir Angels than have Fallen out of any of the Deadly Sins. Dominic views this very grimly. And he should... he knows that Triuwida is aware of his dark secrets. These Angels are not Archangels nor will they ever be Archangels. For the simple fact that when one becomes an entity of such great power as an Archangel you can lose sight of your intent, of your focus. Sure, Michael is War, but he has to deal with Novalis, Laurence, David, Dominic... all those distractions. Politics, politics. God made them to be in the trenches, and that is where they will remain. To follow will be the write ups of each of the Choir Angels. Feel free to jump in with your own interpretations. I think it would be quite neat. Honorare Choir Angel The Malakite Angel of Honor Corp Forces: 6 12/12 Ethereal Forces: 5 10/10 Celestial Forces: 6 12/12 Vessels: Male Human/6, Female/3, Eagle/1 Roles: None. Skills: Most at/3, (some notable ones include): Knowledge(Ancient History)/6, Large Weapon(Sword)/6, Meditation/5, Language(Latin)/6 Songs: All songs of Purity/2, Healing(all/3), Symphony(Corp, Celes/4), Virtue/3, Shields(Corp, Eth/3), Tongues(Corp, Eth/2) Oaths: I will never suffer an Evil to live when it is my choice. I will never surrender to the armies of Lucifer. I will never let a Malakite betray his code of Honour if I am aware of it and it is my choice. I will always support a Malakite in his decision to follow his code, regardless of the consequence to myself. Attunements: All Malakim Attunements, including the Malakim of Purity Attunement. All Servitor Attunements of David, Laurence and Uriel. Divine Logic, Synchronicity(all Choir Angels have this). Angel of Honour, Choir Angel, Honourbound Angel of Honour: Honorare automatically succeeds in any attempt to use his Resonance and it overrides all blocks and deceptions. Honorare decides on the CD he gets as well. A Superior has to deliberately concentrate on blocking Honorare's Resonance, otherwise they are not immune to it nor can they filter false information to it. Choir Angel: Honorare is connected to ALL Malakim in the Symphony like a Cherub. He can with a Perception check consult the Cherub CD table with regard to any Malakim. If he makes the roll he can intuit their feelings at that time... if a Malakite he is focussing on is about to violate an oath then Honorare knows what oath and in what circumstance is he going to break it. Honourbound: Honorare can witness new Oaths in the Symphony and make them a part of any Angel, not just a Malakite. Distinctions: Choir Angel. Discord/Dissonance - None. Honorare was the first of the Choir Angel to be created. He was created by God just like all of the other Choir Angels at the point when God stepped back from Celestial matters. The time of his creation can be placed at the exact moment when the Archangels' stopped hearing the music of God. His life with Uriel was short but it was full of action. As a Malakite, Honorare took great pleasure in taking out the trash. He was created as the Angel of Honour but he didn't know it. He knew that he had a job to do, but not that he was bound to a concept. When the battle with the rebels was over, Honorare and the other servitors of Purity took to Earth. He was confronted with the duality of man (as well as Humane but that is another story). The ability of man to be both Honourable and Dishonourable at the same time. This caused his Word to grate against him and then he understood what he was. He stretched out with his senses and felt all of the other Malakim the universe had in it. He felt their conflict, he felt their drive and determination and most of all he felt their Honour. Honorare then spent time on Earth still in service to Uriel taking time to adjust to the new sensations. As Uriel began distancing himself from the Demonic struggle Honorare was compelled to leave. So he did. Now he works as the others do. Silently and efficently with a single focus. He has only once had to make his presence felt in Heaven since he left. When he walked into the council you could see David and Laurence shiver. When he spoke it was as though Metatron was speaking. When he left, the Malakim Archangels felt as though God had left them.... again. But they have faith. Alex. (phew) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:11:06 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: IN> IN Fanatics going to Aggie-Con? Tafka J. writes: > This is mostly directed toward those who are _not_ on SJGames wonderful > Game-Finder ( http://www.sjgames.com/gamerfinder/index.html, hint hint > hint), and are planning on going to Aggie-Con in College Station, TX. > (March 22nd-25th.) See you there, dude. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:10:30 -0400 (AST) From: Philip Vincent Barkow Subject: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Alex Liddell wrote: > >D:) Entropy occurs in a fixed system > > I just love the way that we apply material physics to something of a > spiritual nature. I'll be sure to remind Eli about the law of Conservation > of Energy the next time he snaps his fingers and makes something from > nothing. > > That's just me being me. Actually he's aware of that. Aren't you familiar with his explanation of how his missing socks are a Vapulan plot to make him destroy the universe? > > Alex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:49:41 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) This is fascinating and I'll be interested in seeing the rest. A question: Servitors of Kronos (I think) can take on the Resonance of angels, along with their dissonance conditions. If such a demon took on the Malakite Resonance and dissonance conditions, what would be his relationship with Honorare? Would he be connected with him, and vice versa? I personally think the answer is no, since the demon isn't really a Malakite, but if so, it could be really weird ... Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:31:08 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) At 11:08 PM +1300 2/14/01, Alex Liddell wrote: >Triuwida(old German) the Seraph Angel of Truth >Vardare(Latin) the Cherub Angel of Devotion >Marathon(Greek) the Ofanite Angel of Motion >Aequalis(Latin) the Elohite Angel of Balance Balance? Not Objectivity? After all, overwhelming advantage of Heaven against Hell wouldn't be balanced, but it would still be objectivity good.... >Honorare(Latin) the Malakite Angel of Honour I'm tempted to say Uriel was already the Choir Worded Angel of Malakim. But, Hono[u]r is an acceptable Word here as well. >Contrarilus(ecc Latin) the Kyriotate Angel of Control Diversity. The Angel of Diversity, not Control. It's not that a Kyriotate controls things, its that it lives in multiple viewpoints and frames of reference at once. Or so I think. >Humane(Latin) the Mercurian Angel of Interaction Interaction works, but might not be as good as "Relationship" or "Community," both of which have more to do with the Mercurian's Resonance. Or, for that matter, there's Friendship. *Nice* concept. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:41:18 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors > E:) The Superiors then were no more powerful or weaker then > > Basically it's the fact David worked for 15 billion or so years STRAIGHT > gathering all his forces and essence and attunement study that allowed him > his massive creation. Same with Gabriel and the rest, plus the fact that > they weren't constantly battle demon princes also gave them time to stock > up. As unglamourous as it is, this is what I feel was the case. It especially fit's David's disposition, IMHO. -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:43:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Elohim: A Dilemema At 4:08 PM -0500 2/13/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elohim strike me as the only choir whose dissonance condition >is Do The Right Thing Or Else. A seraph can be cruel, greedy, >whatever, as long as its honest, and it gets no dissonance. >A cherub can be a true S.O.B. to strangers but is dissonance-free >as long as it protects it attuned. And so on. It seems that >Elohim are the only ones that are simply required to Be Good >by their dissonance conditions. Except, of course, where they have to let a baby die because otherwise Something Dreadful To Millions Will Happen. An Elohite of War, for instance, might cheerfully strangle a baby in its cradle if that child had a hugely powerful fate, and an unlikely, small destiny.... (An Elohite of Destiny would then procede to bonk the other Power over the head before it could accomplish its task -- a certain degree of Word-bias is understandable, and even useful. It all evens out, as other Elohim serve other Words...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:29:28 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors >On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Alex Liddell wrote: > > > >D:) Entropy occurs in a fixed system > > > > I just love the way that we apply material physics to something of a > > spiritual nature. I'll be sure to remind Eli about the law of >Conservation > > of Energy the next time he snaps his fingers and makes something from > > nothing. > > > > That's just me being me. > >Actually he's aware of that. > >Aren't you familiar with his explanation of how his missing socks are a >Vapulan plot to make him destroy the universe? Now that you mention it.... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:33:13 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words (Long with a write up) >This is fascinating and I'll be interested in seeing the rest. A question: >Servitors of Kronos (I think) can take on the Resonance of angels, along >with their dissonance conditions. If such a demon took on the Malakite >Resonance and dissonance conditions, what would be his relationship with >Honorare? Would he be connected with him, and vice versa? > >I personally think the answer is no, since the demon isn't really a >Malakite, but if so, it could be really weird ... As far as Honorare is concerned he is a Demon and therefore will be killed. He isn't connected to him per se, but he would feel a scar against the Honour of the Symphony. Not too much though, he can't track a Balseraph of Kronos just because of the lie they are telling to the Universe. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:24:03 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> 2 chick urls Hi all, Maybe slightly offtopic but heres something i found in an eagroup i belong to. www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0064/0064_01.asp www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp They made me chuckle. I think the Media and Faith are having all kinds of fun with Mr Chick. Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:00:11 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) I like these guys. Alot. Good job Ari. Though the question comes down to it... Does this mean LUCIFER has Band words? The Demon of Lies (Balseraphs obviously) The Demon of Parasites (Djinn) The Demon of Violent Release (Calabim) The Demon of Uncontrolled Emotion (Habbalah) The Demon of Wheeling and Dealing (Lilim) The Demon of Posession (Shedim) Then again we already have Lucifer Asmodeus Demogorgon>Fufur Makatiel> Uh oh.... Lilith Legion hmmm. What happens if one of these guys is offed? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:20:28 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) >I like these guys. > >Alot. > >Good job Ari. > >Though the question comes down to it... > >Does this mean LUCIFER has Band words? > >The Demon of Lies (Balseraphs obviously) >The Demon of Parasites (Djinn) >The Demon of Violent Release (Calabim) >The Demon of Uncontrolled Emotion (Habbalah) >The Demon of Wheeling and Dealing (Lilim) >The Demon of Posession (Shedim) Yes it does mean that Lucifer has Band Words. He already made them and they were far to visible. Demagorgon for example.... TOAST! The Demon of Lies is obviously Lucifer, well at least he embodies it. I don't think he would grant the Word in a hurry. Mind you, after I have finished the Choir Words... who knows what might come next. DUM DUM DUMMMMMMM! Ari The Angel of Performing Arts. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:57:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> ADMIN: Check the listrules for updates! There's been some updating on the listrules. Not on the one you get sent, yet, when you s u b s c r i b e, but on the much handier one in my .sig... (In particular, check the suggestions about Long Posts...) - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:10:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> February 12, 2001 (ML) At 9:01 PM -0800 2/13/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Needs salt, if you'll pardon the pun. [...] >the PCs are simply going to have to learn how to swim >for this one. Seraphim of Jordi (as well as Kyrios in general) are going to be _very_ amused by this. Why, some of them might get assigned to help out. And everyone knows* that fins have a truly annoying sense of humor. * Well, everyone who reads stuff about sapient dolphins. I don't think I can recall any author making them less than whimsical, snarky, or downright obnoxious -- or all of the above. Not to mention lecherous, but then, real-life dolphins have been known to proposition things outside their species. (One does wonder how many triads would faint, if they only knew...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:41:22 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> 2 chick urls > www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp > And the best part about "Dark Dungeons"? There are an awful lot of women in that gaming group. 4 out of 7? Playing D&D? I mean, really. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:50:39 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: IN> 2 chick urls Chris Bergstresser writes: > > www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp > > > > And the best part about "Dark Dungeons"? There are an awful lot of women > in that gaming group. 4 out of 7? Playing D&D? I mean, really. Make that 3 out of 7 - the DM was obviously the Demon of D&D, a Shedite of Death whose heyday was the early 1980s. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:08:06 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) > The Demon of Lies (Balseraphs obviously) Well, remember how Balseraphs think. They don't lie -- in their minds. No Balseraph would take this word. This would be the "Demon of Personal Truths". > The Demon of Parasites (Djinn) I would think the Demon of Stalking might be more appropraite. ;) -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:22:24 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) > > The Demon of Lies (Balseraphs obviously) > >Well, remember how Balseraphs think. They don't lie -- in their minds. No >Balseraph would take this word. This would be the "Demon of Personal >Truths". Yes but then again a Word is an embodiment of a Demons nature. They don't *think* they are lying, but they *are* lying. The Band Word would be an embodiment of their nature. They can call it what they want, they are still full of it and quite prepared to stand in what they shovel. > > The Demon of Parasites (Djinn) > >I would think the Demon of Stalking might be more appropraite. ;) This I do agree with. All of this I will take into consideration when Choirs are done. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:30:21 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) > This I do agree with. All of this I will take into consideration when > Choirs are done. The other possibility is that the Demon "choir words" are the same as the angelic ones, only slightly perverted. the Balseraph Demon of Personal Truth the Djinn Demon of Obsessive Devotion the Calabim Demon of Destructive Motion (Entropy) the Habbalah Demon of Balancing Heaven (i.e. being cruel where Heaven is merciful) or perhaps the Habbalah Demon of True Objectivity (Hell needs an advocate, too) the Lilim Demon of Honourable Transactions (i.e. by Hell's standards) the Shedim Demon of Control (don't even have to change this one, really -- it's just the Shedim's control is *different*) the Impudite Demon of Self-Serving Interaction ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:35:19 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Choir Words (Long with a write up) >The other possibility is that the Demon "choir words" are the same as the >angelic ones, only slightly perverted. > >the Balseraph Demon of Personal Truth >the Djinn Demon of Obsessive Devotion >the Calabim Demon of Destructive Motion (Entropy) >the Habbalah Demon of Balancing Heaven (i.e. being cruel where Heaven is >merciful) or perhaps the Habbalah Demon of True Objectivity (Hell needs an >advocate, too) >the Lilim Demon of Honourable Transactions (i.e. by Hell's standards) >the Shedim Demon of Control (don't even have to change this one, really -- >it's just the Shedim's control is *different*) >the Impudite Demon of Self-Serving Interaction Yup you could do this as well. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:11:40 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> February 14, 2001 (ML) ...and I felt the Need to come up with something _special_, this time around. Hope I succeeded. :) Moe Be Mine, Valentine If there's a magical item that's common in every human culture's folklore, it's the love potion. People have tried throughout history to come up with something that will compel the affections (or at least the lust) of another. Nobody ever has - at least, nobody without access to esoteric power, and even they can't quite pull it off. Sorcery does offer certain potions and charms that can superficially do the job, but the effects never last, the side effects range from severely annoying to horrendous, and none of them offer real love, anyway. This last can actually be very important: many sorcerers are profoundly lonely individuals, and having a grinning, mind-dead sex slave and sycophant doesn't seem to help that condition, oddly enough. And, of course, the worst thing was that there actually is a reliable, easy to make love potion that is absolutely guaranteed to work permanently. Unfortunately, the ingredients needed to make it absolutely require the hearts and brains of the two people you wish to have fall in love with each other. This is a fairly severe design problem. Dedicated sorcerers tried everything to get around the ingredient list: sorcerous hearts, homunculi, the law of contagion. Nothing worked. The only loophole was to use identical twins of both people: this worked, mind, but it just meant that the sorcerer would have to give up the occult benefits of having an identical twin (there are some, mostly involving the transferal of injury). All in all, the utility of the ritual was low, so even Hatiphas eventually stopped offering it as an inducement to sign on with Hell. There was just no way to get it to work. Much time passed. Princes rose and were cast down. One day, not too long ago, the Demoness of Sorcery was going through her desk, trying to clear up the backlog (even celestials have paperwork, especially those working for Fate). She came across the old specifications, grimaced and was about to circular file it when her eye caught the latest digest of corporeal affairs. The front page had a minor blurb about the successful cloning of one of the talking monkeys' domestic animals. Hatiphas looked at the digest, then looked at the tattered file - and started to laugh. It wasn't even a particularly nasty laugh - which, in Kronos' Archives, is a rare thing, and an ominous one at that. A short chat with Vapula later, Hatiphas was in business. After all, what's a clone but an identical twin with a delayed birthday? Now she's got yet another irresistible hook - serve Hell, and get the woman or man you always wanted. All she needs is a tissue sample from you and your unwitting future love - - something not too difficult to arrange - and pretty soon you get two little vials guaranteed to provide you with True Love. Just sign on the dotted line. It's perfect. Well, it would be, if Jean were providing the equipment and technicians (and don't think that Heaven won't be at least a little tempted to duplicate this trick, packaged as a voluntary mutual way to regain the happiness and joy of your marriage, or something). Vaputech can always be counted on to blow up in amusingly disastrous ways. Those GMs out there with GURPS Warehouse 23 are directed to page 76 for a particularly nasty side effect; those without it should be ashamed of themselves for not having such a priceless resource. Failing that, well, the process does result in two dead bodies. Perfectly good bodies, so Vapula wouldn't see why he couldn't use them for his zombification projects. Or maybe a corpse or two just washes up on shore. Either way, the PCs will no doubt scratch their heads over why said bodies have fingerprints that match living humans - and, hopefully, jump to a wrong conclusion in that way we all know and count on fervently. At the very least, they'll be a little fuzzy over who the victims actually are when it comes time to Smite... ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:17:00 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Elohim: A Dilemema >> It depends entirely on the mission objective and the overall good. > >Yes, and "overall good" can be quite widely construed. Compassion >is part of the overall good. Thus, in a wide range of circumstances, >the Elohite can be compassionate and go save the Soldier. > >But suppose that saving the Soldier would be impossible without >severe risk of losing one of the other Soldiers. Suppose >further that they are all roughly equally valuable as resources >for Heaven, but that the Elohite likes the Solider in peril >best of all. It would be dissonant for it to go back for him >just because he was its favorite -- just as it would be wrong >for a human commander to do so. Well, it might be dissonant to send another Soldier off to die in order to do it (unless the Soldier volunteered maybe; not entirely impossible with goodie types, after all), but I would think risking its vessel would not be a problem. Just because the Elohite WANTS to do something doesn't automatically make it a subjective decision; they just have to satisfy objective considerations first. And in the case of superiors like Laurence and definitely Michael, not going back after one of your own would probably get you in serious trouble, Elohim dissonance or not. Obviously this may depend on campaign style as well; a darker setting where Heaven's servants are viewed as somewhat disposable will more likely have the Elohite take dissonance for a rescue attempt than a bright one which respects humanity. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:24:50 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> February 12, 2001 (ML) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And everyone knows* that fins have a truly annoying sense > of humor. > > * Well, everyone who reads stuff about sapient dolphins. > I don't think I can recall any author making them less > than whimsical, snarky, or downright obnoxious -- or > all of the above. Never trust a species that grins all the time. It's probably up to something. - -Terry Pratchett, In Pyramids. IN Relevance? uhmmm... Well, we could resurface the thread about IN / Discworld crossovers via Gurps... On the other hand... Can Shedim possess whales and others of that Family (I think Cetaceans are a Family, correct me if i am wrong)? Leave aside the question of whether or not they are sapient. Assume that it is not relevant to this discussion. Can they be possessed? Mabye this was an attunement of the princess of the oceans, now lost as she is rather dead. Sorry, best I can do after a long day and two irish coffees. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:57:53 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> February 14, 2001 (ML) Ah, this is twisted...I love it. >Those GMs out there with >GURPS Warehouse 23 are directed to page 76 for a >particularly nasty side effect; those without it >should be ashamed of themselves for not having such a >priceless resource. I was wondering if you'd get to that. >Failing that, well, the process does result in two >dead bodies. Perfectly good bodies, so Vapula >wouldn't see why he couldn't use them for his >zombification projects. Or maybe a corpse or two just >washes up on shore. Either way, the PCs will no doubt >scratch their heads over why said bodies have >fingerprints that match living humans - and, >hopefully, jump to a wrong conclusion in that way we >all know and count on fervently. At the very least, >they'll be a little fuzzy over who the victims >actually are when it comes time to Smite... Problem is, identical twins don't have identical fingerprints. They have the same general pattern on each finger, but the actual pattern is affected by the conditions in which the fetus develops, and winds up being different. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:58:54 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors >>D:) Entropy occurs in a fixed system > >I just love the way that we apply material physics to something of a >spiritual nature. I'll be sure to remind Eli about the law of >Conservation of Energy the next time he snaps his fingers and makes >something from nothing. > >That's just me being me. No, no, no. Even mortals already know that it's really Conservation of Matter-Energy, as the two can change form. The real version is simply Conservation of Matter-Energy-Essence. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:25:21 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> God bless you. (snicker) This got sparked by a conversation on TooMush. Alas, I can't quite remember who to blame for it... ;) Moe Yumiko Free Lilim, formerly of Disease, currently IST Factions Demon of the Flu Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 4 Agility: 8 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 8 Precision: 8 Celestial Forces: 6 Will: 12 Perception: 12 Word Forces: 11 Vessel: human female/3, +1 Charisma Skills: Dodge/3, Emote/3, Fast-Talk/3, Knowledge (Business/3, Economics/3, Corporate Law/3, Research/3), Language (English/3), Lieing/3, Medicine/3, Ranged Weapon/3 (pistol) Songs: Affinity (Celestial/3), Charm (Celestial/3), Desire (Celestial/3), Laughter (Celestial/3), Light (Celestial/4), Motion (Ethereal/3, Celestial/3), Pestilence (All/3), Shields (All/2) Role: "Yumitora Samoto" (freelance corporate executive/5, Status 5) Attunements: Lilim of Disease, Lilim of Factions, Kiss of Death, Passage, Demon of the Flu. Lilim of Disease: Anyone successfully resisting a Geas from these demons must immediately make a Strength +2 roll: if they fail, he or she comes down with a common, contagious and airborne disease of the Lilim's choice. This disease may be treated normally. Demon of the Flu: as Demon of the Flu, Yumiko may either give someone the flu, or take it away. Taking it away is considered filling a Need, even if Yumiko is the one that gave the person the flu in the first place... Rites: Malphas' basic one. Special Rites: Give a person the flu (usable twice per day) Geas: Malphas/3 Yumiko was just as happy to see her old Prince die: Makatiel was far too interested in killing off humanity to make his Lilim really comfortable about working for him. Since then, she's lived the life of a Free Lilim, steadily buying her way out of debt and using her status as a Word-bound to land choice assignments. In her time, she's worked for Lust, Theft, Dark Humor, Greed, and is now starting to finish up a long-term position with Factions. She's been offered another contract there, though, and Yumiko certainly likes the work environment, so she might sign on again. Currently, Malphas uses her as a Typhoid Mary. In her Role as a hotshot young corporate troubleshooter, Yumiko gets to infiltrate various office surroundings - - and then send them all home sick. Doesn't sound too dire? Try running a company fighting off a corporate takeover when half your staff can't get out of bed. Also, by selectively choosing her targets, the demon can set things up so that someone already waiting for the chance to indulge in a little backstabbing gets the opportunity to do so. That gives her a Geas-hook, plus the one she gets for anonymously 'curing' the person just in time to let him or her retaliate, and then from there it's just a few small steps to getting half a business fighting the other half. Malphas finds her very useful, indeed. Yumiko herself is, well, best described by a five-letter word that isn't politically correct to use these days. The Lilim has an almost Habbalite attitude towards mortals: she finds humans fairly smelly, atrociously weak, and ready to snivel (or sniffle) at the drop of a hat. She doesn't really consider anything that she does to be actually wrong, per se: in Yumiko's experience, the conniving and betrayals that follow in her wake would probably have happened soon enough, anyway. She might as well make a profit on the deal: that way, the humans are benefiting someone with their antics. They certainly aren't benefiting themselves. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2061 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.