From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Feb 16 16:38:01 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23211 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:38:01 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA31567 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:40:48 -0600 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:40:48 -0600 Message-Id: <200102162240.QAA31567@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2063 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, February 16 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2063 In this digest: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors Re: IN> IN Fanatics going to Aggie-Con? Re: IN> Shoes as weapons Re: IN> Shoes as weapons Fw: IN> February 15, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) IN> The Count of Thorns (i.e. Novalis's widdle problem) IN> More Angel identification... IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2062 IN> Re: Rachel Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) Re: IN> February 11, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> February 12, 2001 (ML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Gradual Decline of Superiors - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > This an odd theory here but bear with me.... > Basically it's the fact David worked for 15 billion or so > years STRAIGHT > gathering all his forces and essence and attunement study that > allowed him > his massive creation. Same with Gabriel and the rest, plus the > fact that > they weren't constantly battle demon princes also gave them > time to stock up. I like this theory the best. It's simple, elegant, requires no acrobatics to integrate into (or avoid!) canon and doesn't introduce any new game mechanics. Plus, it illustrates one of the major differences between Celestials and Humans -- immortals often have patience that is _literally_ infinite. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:05:36 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Fanatics going to Aggie-Con? Sorry, gotta miss it. Not in the budget this year. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:07:26 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Shoes as weapons - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > Clogs became very popular that spring around there. And a huge rush of Essence empowered the newly Word-bound Angel of Improvised Weapons, Malakite of Creation! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:09:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Shoes as weapons - --- Jo Hart wrote: > So I swung at him with what I had in my > other hand -- a bag containing a frozen chicken. He stumbled > backwards > (probably concussed) and legged it. We went home. The chicken > later got ceremonially defrosted and eaten :) And a certain Malakite of Creation just keeps getting more powerful... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:37:26 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Fw: IN> February 15, 2001 (ML) - -----Original Message----- From: Maurice Lane To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 11:03 PM Subject: IN> February 15, 2001 (ML) > >All she wanted was a child. > *Wipes the tears from his eyes* Damn, Moe... Now THAT was a tragic story... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:44:05 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida > > True Lies: This Attunement was unknown to Triuwida until he >unconsciously > > used it against a Balseraph. With the expenditure of 5 Essence and a >Will > >Personally, I would change this to "By spending X Essence and making a Will >roll, Triuwida can force someone to speak in only complete, whole truths >for CD minutes." That avoids the semi-Balseraphic forcing of will upon the >Symphony and is a wonderful way to make the Liars Dissonant. Yes, well done. It is an excellent adaptation of the Attunement. For those of you who like to play games where the Symphony is very rarely changed by mere Angels I would endorse this variant of the Attunement as Triuwida's. I will remind everyone again... the Choir Angels are NOT mere Angels. They all in some way can exercise power over the Symphony or other Angels unbeknownst to all but Superiors. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:03:01 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida At 5:44 PM +1300 2/16/01, Alex Liddell wrote: > >Yes, well done. It is an excellent adaptation of the Attunement. >For those of you who like to play games where the Symphony is very >rarely changed by mere Angels I would endorse this variant of the >Attunement as Triuwida's. > >I will remind everyone again... the Choir Angels are NOT mere >Angels. They all in some way can exercise power over the Symphony >or other Angels unbeknownst to all but Superiors. (Note, the following is in Playtester mode. Not meant to start arguments, but to express my opinions of playability and tone. So, I'm going to sound absolute when it's really just my opinion. ) Mm. I really don't care for the uncut True Lies attunement regardless of the Choir Angels. However, if they're not Angels, they shouldn't be quantified. I have a hard time accepting a 17 Force Angel can do something Baal can't. Further, the attunement has Balseraph mindset *all* over it, not Seraph. It is the logical conclusion of the Balseraph resonance and worldview. "What I believe to be true *is* true, and no one can say otherwise." The Angel of Truth should never, *ever* impose his/her own truth onto the Symphony. That should be the highest of blasphemy to a Word like that. It would be like giving the Angel of Motion the ability to freeze someone in place. And pretty much any Seraph who encountered Triuwida and discovered that he/she had this ability would be *horrified.* It makes what is *True,* bright, shining and divine, *not* True. If that can happen, then the entire world could be a lie. Many Seraphim could only respond to that by demanding that the new Truth be *wrong,* and that the Truth they *know* was True to be True. And drop like a stone. I think the Angel that all Seraphim are connected to shouldn't leave a pile of bitter Balseraphs in his/her wake. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:08:47 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:27:50 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy writes: > > Only if they _are_ sapient. Otherwise, they are animals and only > a Shedite of a Fallen Jordi (with the right Word as a Prince, mind) > could get one. Or, possibly, a Shedite of Oceans. Also a mostly > mute point. O:> Well, that leaves, perhaps, dolphins, some whales, and perhaps chimps and the like. Those are the animals I think of as being sapient, or at least as close as one can tell. Of course, even sapient animals still fall under the province of Jordi - - only humans are excluded. And Jordi is probably quite fond of non-human intelligences - the smarter an animal is, the better it can know God and the Symphony, and show that those talking monkeys aren't the only game in town, and so forth. Which means that Shedite might want to be just a little bit careful... - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:19:32 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Count of Thorns (i.e. Novalis's widdle problem) (Memory blessed readers will find the Count of Thorns based on a secret society I once wrote up for the list and mentioning of several Novalis written up works from the list) Mara(rou) Count of Thorns Djinn of the War Baron of Plagues Knight of Drugs The Demon of Blight Cor-3 Strength-6 Agility-6 Eth-4 Intelligence-8 Precision-8 Cel-4 Will-8 Perception-8 Artifact: Unholy Uzi (1 clip unholy bullets) Vessel: Hispanic male 4/, Caucasian female 2/ Servant: Colonel Miguile Santanis (Human Mercanary leader 4/, Status 6/), Warren Phillips (United States Financial advisor Human 2/, 5/) Skills: Dodge 3/, Fighting 4/, Knowledges (Business 4/, The Heroine Trade 3/, Plant disease 6/), Lanquages (English 4/, Spanish 6/, Latin 3/), Medicine (Plant 6/), Ranged Weapon (Bow 3/, Uzi 4/), Survival (Rain forrest 4/, Forrest 4/), Tactics 3/ Songs: Song of Charm (Ethereal 3/, Celestial 4/), Claws 3/, Song of Disease (Corporeal 4/, Ethereal 4/, Celestial 3/), Song of Harmony (Corporeal 3/, Ethereal 4/, Celestial 3/), Song of Healing (Corporeal 2/), Wings 2/ Attunements: Balseraph of Disease, Djinn of Disease, Baron of Disease, Djinn of War, Captain of the War, Count of the War, State of Ophis, Art of Combat, To the Death, Knight of Drugs, Blight Crops, Blight Love, See the Trees for the Forrest Blight Crops: With the expenditure of three points of essence, 100 yards per point of celestial forces are inflicted with a terrible disease which will kill any plants it comes into contact with within a week. The disease is noncontagious sadly thus far (though marou is approaching servants of Vapula about such) but incurable save by the Celestial song of healing or the intervention of certain attunements of Novalis which are bound to alert Marou to their presence. Blight Love: With a resisted will roll Marou can plant in the mind of a mortal or angel a nagging sensation that lasts for a week times the number he beats the angel by times the degree of sucess. The nagging sensation causes him to view one thing that annoys him about his truest love to become extremely disconcerting and actively damaging to one's peace of mind to be in the presence of. In some cases with enough provacation it can insight violence. See the Trees for the Forrest: This attunement renders any angel using attunements of Novalis to hide amongst flowers completely visible. Word forces: 18 Rites: All of Makatiel's, All of Baal's basic and some advanced, and Fleurity's basic * Kill a servant of Novalis * Soul kill a servant of Novalis * Destroy 100 acres of flowered terrain * Warp the spirit of flowers in some horrible public way Mara is something of a joke in the halls of Gehenna's warriors as he is a warrior who while a powerful wordbound is relatively low compared to those of similar power in Baal's army, follows a crusade that only he really cares about, is stuck waging war among the backwaters of society, and has a girl's name. Mara (servitors concientious of looking silly but wise not to tick off the count have added a "rou" to his last name) was orginally an angel like many of Baal's fallen servitors but unlike most did not serve Michael, Laurence, Baal himself, or David but...Novalis. The Cherub of Novalis was known as Eliael and was rumored to be a product of Eli and Novalis's love blessed with a warm dissposition and a strong sense of duty to her mother's "cause". Elial eventually became fascinated with a musical Seraph of Eli who was of similar temperment and together they're love endured for close to a century before he was unceremoniously snuffed out by a Shedim determined to slaughter the violin maker that had been her love's role. His name is lost to all but a few but when it was over the man had been soulkilled and Elial was inconsoleable. This might have been the end of the story had not the Shedim redeemed soon after by no less than Novalis herself. Elial's shock was matched only by her outrage as she burned with an anger that Novalis found to her shock and concern that she could not erase despite her calming influence, in a turn that surprised all the new Kyriorite was murdered and Elial's heart broke with her fall. Changing her name to Mara (Bitter in Hebrew) the new Djinn vowed as she descended into Hell that if Novalis was willing to forgive any demon of their crime then she would make sure that she forgave the most horrofic demon ever. It was no shock that Mara then entered the service of Makatiel who after Legion's demise ranked quite openly as the most openly despicable surviving prince with the possible exception of Saminga. Mara spread disease and specially focused on plants which while thought orginally to be a waste of time by the Prince of Disease proof fruitfall in starvation that resulted afterwards so he rewarded his servitor well enough before getting himself killed by the combined forces of Dominic and the Game. After a certain ammount of deliberation Mara eventually moved into the service of Baal whom she spoke to at length saying that she desired to destroy Novalis and Baal was openly contempteous with good reason. Michael was the greatest of Seraphs, David was as hard as the Stone he gave, Laurence was a foolish pup but a warrior and an Archangel, Novalis was the most pathetic insignificant pacifistic fool that Heaven had ever made and hurt Heaven's cause far more than the annoying Pollyanna could ever hurt hell. It was then that Mara spoke the words that convinced Baal to take the young Baroness of Plagues into his fold "Indeed she does Warbringer but the question is not what Novalis is but what she does. By her forgivesness, optimism, and brightness she reminds Heaven of the pleasantries of peace when the world is a dying endless war that should consume all. Without her in the way there will be nothing to stop the escalation of the conflict to the rightful Armageddon that it should be." Baal listening saw a certain ammount of wisdom in the young Djinn's words and decided to not obliterate her out of hand and give her a trial one in his corps. Mara's acts of depravity won Baal enough beliefs that she was worthwhile and ultimately Mara adopted a male personae to better function in the patriarcal society the War was fought in. While certainly not the best tactician or fighter in Baal's army he was competant enough and his butchering of Novalis's servants in particularly horrofic ways had the bright spot of bringing angels out of the woodwork in ways the Warbringer could appreciate, while most of Heaven may disagree with the Flowers servants most end up as friends to any members nearby and engauge in battle much more often if they are threatened. The Irish Potato famine was an act which caught both the Demon Prince and much of the world off gaurd especially when it was discovered that Marou used his influence in the British government he had achieved and old attunements of Makatiel's to accelerate the spread of the disease and delay relief for as long as possible. Baal was angered beyond belief when he discovered that the then Captain had done all of this to torture and torment the Novalis Wordbound of Potatoes (a flowering plant) and cause his Fall. The punishment Baal had in mind for Marou is probably best left to the imagination but when he arrived he was shocked to find that Lucifer was already there congradulating him.... Lucifer: I mean sure it's not exactly the GREATEST act of the War really expressed but the survivors I imagine are oftly teed off about it...pass the crumpets would you? Marou: Certainly Lucifer: For this action I award you the Word of Blight Marou. Spiritually and Physically all things that are stains on the Flower of the World are you. Well tee times over...cheerio. Baal accepted ultimately that the fammine while a grossly cowardly act that harmed untold numbers of noncombatants, managed to harden relations between the Irish and British governments in a way that has gaurenteed that their age old conflict continues to this day providing Baal with fresh fodder and soldiery. Baal awarded Mararou reluctantly a County and the Djinn immediately put it to use waging his war against flowers to an even greater extent as he consistantly doctored the books, misused resources, and sent his soldiery off to slaughter as many servants of the Archangel of Flowers as he could. Only the fact that the Duke immediately above him suspected little and Marou provided him with reasonable justifications for the expenses has kept him from being destroyed like so many other servants of Baal. Baal himself suspects all of it and is not breaking rank to deal with it as the excesses are no worse than most of the other Counts. Currently Marou is operating in Central America providing money for the mercanary armies of corrupt governments by making sure they slash and burn as much forrest to sell to would be farmers as they can. This is a strike at Novalis's word directly as Marou has also begun making quiet deals with Fleurity on the side of the competing drug lords to turn as much of the arable land as he can as markets for heroin....not any other drug...just heroin he's insisted. The prodject has already unearthed several ancient tethers to flowers and servitors to them as he makes sure they are cut down in the next round of merciless fighting. His Duke thus far doesn't care as millions is being laundered through perfectly legitamate drug running and other tedious duties like farm selling and slash and corporate slash and burn work. Fleurity is impressed enough with his bookwork to award him a knighthood in his order. Marou has unwittingly attracted the ire of Jordi during this work but thus far it's merely more of an excuse to request brutal murdering demons to deal with it and any friendly Flowers servitors nearby. Marou's alliance with the Demon of Starvation (another Count of Baals hopeing to gain the Princeship of Fammine) has helped him to some extent in these negioations....the Demon of Starvation is the same Angel of Potatoes from before. Lucifer has a sense of irony. Because Marou is very generous with his rites and willing to award the secrets of his attunements to those who will soul kill angels of Novalis for him he is well known among the upper echelons of the Lady of Flowers and many truth be told underneath their forgiving exteriors hate him to the Core. It is one thing to ignore peace, harmony, and love as useless (even in Heaven that is a problem) but to declare oneself the active enemy of them and to make promoting such a thing grounds for matyrdom is something that rises all that is righteously angry in the normally unflapable servants. Novalis has been shocked to have it suggested to her by several of her servants that Marou should be declared Beyond the Pale and destroyed. Novalis herself mourns deeply for her servants anger at her but isn't ready to declare him unredeemable even if it means endangering all those she loves....and that's a difficult decision for her. This is not just a decision of her pascifistic nature but because she also knows that Marou is no worse than any number of demons and would be playing right into his hands. Count Marou WANTS to die secretly and he wants to die at the hands of the Archangel of Flowers. He believes should she strike him down in hatred of him and not out of love or desire to protect then such screeching dissonance will cause her to Fall and all of Heaven's peace faction will crumble as War consumed both Heaven and Hell. A fitting enough funeral pyre for her lover. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:46:14 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> More Angel identification... Because you can never have enough information on how to recognize Angels. Angels of Lightning Major theme: Electrical patterns, glowing eyes and wings of lightning. Modern Angels of Lightning tend to look like Computer Generated Images. Seraphim: A snake made of living electrical energy, with wings of lightning, crackling with pure energy. This Trisagonist clearly reveals it's link to Lightning. Cherubim: Animals with bright electrical patterns in their fur, which often seems raised by static. Their eyes glow with power and they have wings of energy as well. Younger Lightning Cherubim sometimes resemble electrical-based videogame critters. Ofanim: Wheels of Lightning are made of electrical energy rather then fire, and rotate like flywheels, full of power just begging for release. Elohim: These powers have bodies sparkling with electrical current, the energy flowing like blood within veins, in a slow but constant flux, never wavering with emotions, much like Jean. Malakim: Virtues of Lightning are the only ones who go against the "theme" of the others, appearing as mechanical androids with black metallic skin and metallic feathered wings. Only their eyes shine with bright energy, marking their belonging to Jean's Servitors. Kyriotates: These Dominations appear as a mass of CGI wire-frame bodyparts hovering in a field of pure electrical energy. Mercurians: these Friends of Man tend to look like normal humans, except for their glowing energy wings and their hair, which always looks like it's filled with static. Trade Major Theme: skins and wings of gold, silver and other precious metals, fineries like silk and jewelry. Seraphim: The Most Holy angels of Trade are bright, golden snakes, flying with silken wings. Cherubim: These well groomed Guardians wear fine bejeweled collars along their necks, and sometimes have treasure chests on their backs, holding some posession they have been entrusted with. Ofanim: Thrones of Trade look like golden rings with a fire-pattern embedded in them. Elohim: Dynamis of Trade are all dressed in fine, but subdued power suits, and carry with them notebooks and scales for their tasks as divine appraisers. Malakim: Kings of Marc all dress in simple but elegent business suits, and carry with them briefcases containing all their equipment and cellphones (Artifacts with the Celestial Song of Tongues) which seldom leave their ears. Agents of the IRS and corporate sharks have nothing on these Holy corporate raiders. Kyriotates: Clouds of gold dust with jewel covered limbs. Mercurians: They follow Marc's lead and wear Armani business suits almost everywhere, except on the tennis courts, gyms and golf courses. I'm tired now, so I'll do more tomorrow... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:42:57 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2062 > Aside from the obscenely dangerous potential of this thing, I > find it hard to believe that a mere angel could have such power. > We're talking about the ability to rewrite the symphony wholesale. > Granted, the sole known possessor of this attunement seems to have > good judgement in its exercise, but the very existence of such a > power outside of God itself just doesn't sit right with me. Now, we > could claim that the Choir Angels are really fragments of God, in a > way similar to how Yves is. (Otherwise, just imagine what might > happen if this guy fell through some chain of events...) True but from Ari's write-up where not talking about an ANGEL per say but the living embodiment of a choir. Effectively Michael, Dominic, and Litheroy are just small portions of these angels overriding essence and it's entirely possible that their deaths or whatnot might cause the destruction of the entire CHOIR of angels (I chat with Alex regurarely and he indicates this is not the case though he said it would destroy some and every seraph would feel dear Tri's fate) It may be possible that Honare actually is the reason Malakim fall and not Uriel who is ONLY an Archangel. If he is killed or WORSE forced to betray one of his oaths then that dissonance mights streak across the Malakim like an unending plague of horrors. Interesting stuff this. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:50:53 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: Rachel Scary Gal. Here's an interesting set up however. What happens if she has a child and sires a Nephilim? Or the father is Hellsworn? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:21:15 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida >I think the Angel that all Seraphim are connected to shouldn't leave >a pile of bitter Balseraphs in his/her wake. >-- >Eric Alfred Burns - I would like to apologise for Triuwida. Obviously True Lies just doesn't sit well with people. It is very much a one sided debate and I will concede the point. Everyones opinion is welcomed and fair enough, perhaps the Angel of Truth shouldn't have the ability to turn any lie into a reality. I'm sure some would say that he *definately* shouldn't. Life is about mistakes - - this was mine for the week. BTW, is everyone getting two posts from Eric? Or is it just me? Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:40:02 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida At 8:21 PM +1300 2/16/01, Alex Liddell wrote: >>I think the Angel that all Seraphim are connected to shouldn't leave >>a pile of bitter Balseraphs in his/her wake. >>-- >>Eric Alfred Burns - > >I would like to apologise for Triuwida. Obviously True Lies just >doesn't sit well with people. It is very much a one sided debate >and I will concede the point. Everyones opinion is welcomed and >fair enough, perhaps the Angel of Truth shouldn't have the ability >to turn any lie into a reality. I'm sure some would say that he >*definately* shouldn't. Life is about mistakes - this was mine for >the week. Nothing to apologize for -- we all have shakedowns of our concepts. And the base concept of this is truly distinctive and excellent, so I'm commenting out of enthusiasm, I promise. >BTW, is everyone getting two posts from Eric? Or is it just me? Just you. I took "steps" to prevent double-posting to the Tattered list, but said steps mean my e-mail program sends e-mail to the list and to the original poster when I forget to erase the person's address. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:18:12 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Words: Triuwida >>I would like to apologise for Triuwida. Obviously True Lies just >>doesn't sit well with people. It is very much a one sided debate >>and I will concede the point. Everyones opinion is welcomed and >>fair enough, perhaps the Angel of Truth shouldn't have the ability >>to turn any lie into a reality. I'm sure some would say that he >>*definately* shouldn't. Life is about mistakes - this was mine for >>the week. > >Nothing to apologize for -- we all have shakedowns of our concepts. >And the base concept of this is truly distinctive and excellent, so >I'm commenting out of enthusiasm, I promise. Promise? Oh my shattered ego! :) >>BTW, is everyone getting two posts from Eric? Or is it just me? > >Just you. I took "steps" to prevent double-posting to the >Tattered list, but said steps mean my e-mail program sends e-mail to >the list and to the original poster when I forget to erase the >person's address. Oh right, I should have seen that. Thanks for the comments. ;) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:11:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) At 12:08 AM -0500 2/16/01, damienw@juno.com wrote: >On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:27:50 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy > writes: >> >> Only if they _are_ sapient. Otherwise, they are animals and only >> a Shedite of a Fallen Jordi (with the right Word as a Prince, mind) >> could get one. Or, possibly, a Shedite of Oceans. Also a mostly >> mute point. O:> > > Well, that leaves, perhaps, dolphins, some whales, and perhaps chimps >and the like. Those are the animals I think of as being sapient, or at >least as close as one can tell. To an extent -- about the level of an older toddler, from what I've seen. I would suspect that this is still below the "knowledge of good and evil" threshold, though. In other words, animals, though smart, aren't at the stage of development where they have the hooks a Shedite can latch onto. (This suggests that a Shedite might not be able to possess a baby, either, which would be an interesting effect, though you could also rationalize the ability as "it's _going_ to be a full-grown human someday, so it has the 'niches' a Shedite seeps into." Probably ditto certain brain-damage.) And even if a Shedite did manage to possess an animal, just _think_ what Jordi would do... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:55:56 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) >And even if a Shedite did manage to possess an animal, just _think_ >what Jordi would do... > > >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ I dare say Jordi would find a way if he ever Fell; he'd put to work the same cleverness that discovered Vessels in the first place. Surely the Shedite Demon Prince of Beasts has been written up somewhere -- if not, I'll take a stab at it. >;^) The mere existence of corporeal sentiences other than humans would change the In Nomine game setting. Are they of equal importance with humans? Are they in some senses lesser or greater? What about the place of Man with respect to these creations? Does Man have Dominion? If you're interested in exploring the questions, I present a teaser for: In Nomine: Mare Imbrium What a pregnant little throwaway line that is. Seraphim of Jordi prefer to work in the relative peace of the underwater realm. But, of course... what work? The undersea world is one where Man has yet to intrude seriously. This is not to say, however, that there is no intelligent life there. The premise of In Nomine: Mare Imbrium is that there is, in fact, intelligent life below the waves, and the War is fought for these souls under the sea as well as on land. Things are different there, of course -- sometimes very different. If you are interested in seeing how alien an angel or a demon can see the strange mortal society, take a jaunt through the cetacean world. You can choose one of three species to incarnate as: The Bottlenose Dolphin (Tursiops truncatus): The playful dolphins are the most numerous of the species, in the low millions across the oceans of the world, and the closest to Man. They lead a relaxed life at a slow pace, caring about their families, their stories, and the men who they see so often in their coastal home, ready to discuss them -- and anything else -- at length, but ready to move with grace and confidence once a decision has been reached. The Killer Whale (Orcinus orca): Top of the food chain, preyed upon only by man, and even attacking other marine mammals -- even the others who share speech with them -- they are arrogant and violent, closer to Hell than to Heaven, but capable of deep caring for their family and friends, as well as the noblesse of the warrior. The Humpback Whale (Megaptera novaeangliae): The giants of the ocean, they live for their songs and their intellectual questing. Closer to Heaven than to Hell, they are the thinkers and arbiters, the wise race of the sea, respected by orca and dolphin alike. Indeed, so far from the worries of the flesh are they that extinction has crept close upon them before the few thousand of them that remain have taken note -- and now they threaten to add anger and vengeance to the list of their few paths to damnation. A lively society and a rich culture await angel or demon below the seas, where angels and demons face the challenge of mastering a new culture and psychology of abstractions, and learning the subtle sins and virtues of a race without the omnipresent trappings of the human world. I was originally intending this as a personal project, but it's grown way beyond what I would like to try by myself, so I'm opening up the plot to other authors as a net.book. IN: MI will consist of several parts, of which I currently have O, I, and bits of II and III written: O. Preface Introduction to the MI world, as given by a celestial teacher to a group in for a first briefing. Flavor The Cetacean Bible -- a set of stories concerning cetacean vies of Creation, the Fall, ancient history, and the afterlife. Facts on moving in water(vision to 100 ft, etc.) I. Hard numbers Real-life scientific information on the three major species of the realm II. Cetacean societies(one section for each race) Customs, structure, and famous personalities Cetacean ideas of good and evil, Heaven and Hell, God and the Devil Specialized briefings for angels and demons on points of attack Behavior clues to whether a specific being is on the path to Destiny or Fate Superior opinions of each race III. Celestial information of importance Location of undersea Tethers Important celestial/ethereal personalities in the cetacean realms Narrative information on the effects of celestial powers The rare useful underwater artifacts The actual cetacean afterlife IV. Player Information Statistics on Vessels, Roles(such as they are), Status, celestial power effects, and other mechanical information IN Statistics on standard cetaceans, such as characteristics, Forces, Essence, and commonly known Songs* Tips and tricks on surviving undersea V. GM Information Stats on low- and high-level NPCs, and Tethers Tips for GMing the underwater races Encounters with Man Motivations and plans of key NPCs *Part of the flavor of IN: MI is that, lacking fine manipulators and having song for speech, the cetaceans can use Songs which are part of the cultural knowledge. It still takes six Forces, not that cetacean Mundanes know that, but Singers are not considered unusual. If you wish to write for IN: MI, I can send you the species primers and my ideas on cetacean societies and customs. I can use NPC writeups, adventure seeds, artifact ideas, Superior opinion suggestions, Tether ideas, and much other material of this sort. I can eventually edit it all together in a net.book, post it on my site, and then we can see what people think of it. O:^) William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:14:37 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) At 12:55 16/02/2001 -0500, William J. Keith wrote: >In Nomine: Mare Imbrium >world. You can choose one of three species to incarnate as: Why only three? There are many species of whales, dolphins and porpoises, all of which exhibit intelligence. Will they be coming out in an IN:MI Species Book? :) >IV. Player Information > Statistics on Vessels, Roles(such as they are), Status, celestial >power effects, and other mechanical information > IN Statistics on standard cetaceans, such as characteristics, >Forces, Essence, and commonly known Songs* >*Part of the flavor of IN: MI is that, lacking fine manipulators and having >song for speech, the cetaceans can use Songs which are part of the cultural >knowledge. It still takes six Forces, not that cetacean Mundanes know >that, but Singers are not considered unusual. I assume that, in order to allow humans to interact (for most of the time, read hunt) with the cetaceans, they will all have immense levels of toughness. Otherwise, they will a large number of Corporeal forces. >If you wish to write for IN: MI, I can send you the species primers and my >ideas on cetacean societies and customs. I can use NPC writeups, adventure >seeds, artifact ideas, Superior opinion suggestions, Tether ideas, and much >other material of this sort. I can eventually edit it all together in a >net.book, post it on my site, and then we can see what people think of it. It's a good idea, or rather, at the very least, it's a really fun idea. I'd be interested in writing for it. Send me your current stuff; my email address for this project will be inmi@metameme.demon.co.uk (helps me sort out the incoming mail more easily). >William Pak ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:25:23 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) Oops. Should have gone via private email. Pak ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:33:33 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 11, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Aren't pilgrimages _fun_? Heh. I shudder to think what you would do with the Hajj. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> February 12, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Needs salt, if you'll pardon the pun. I know you were _savoring_ that one... > Still, it could be worse. Just imagine the hassles if > the Statue of Liberty was made out of rock. Ummm... Libby's made out of bronze, Moe. Still falls within David's bailiwick. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2063 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.