From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Feb 17 20:22:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32732 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:22:21 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA17924 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:24:25 -0600 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:24:25 -0600 Message-Id: <200102180224.UAA17924@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2065 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, February 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2065 In this digest: IN> Jordi and Humanity IN> Sapient animals Re: IN> Abracax, Demon Prince of Assholes (name tenative) Re: IN> Spiritually aware Animals IN> [ADMIN] Listrules, people, listrules. Re: IN> Sapient animals Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) Re: IN> Abracax, Demon Prince of Assholes (name tenative) Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) IN> Beezlebub (write up) part 1 Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:57:09 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Jordi and Humanity > Actually, I get the impression that in Jordi's mind, humans > are animals, plain and simple. They just happen to be rather clever > and vicious ones, which he doesn't mind. It's the thinking they're > better than the other animals that he minds. See, I guess I'm working from more of this standpoint: - -- 27,000 years ago, Jordi saw significant reason to wipe out all of humanity (that's every single human being) and only stopped because Michael stood in his way, and _nobody_ messes with Michael once he's decided something. - -- Since then, what (in Jordi's mind) has humanity done that has improved the situation from where it was in 25,000 BCE? Nothing, really. The only one good point I can think of is the "domestication" of animals and the subsequent bonds that developed between humans and animal kind. - -- Since the earliest years of humanity, what has humanity done to make things worse then they were in 25,000 BCE? An indescribably amount. Besides things they (arguably) "can't control" like overpopulation and the displacement of other species' habitats, you have everything from big game hunting to animal testing and all the other horrors that you can think of. - -- So, conclusion then? Jordi has more of a reason to wipe humanity out now than he did 27,000 years ago. What does this mean? Well, that would depend on your campaign. Did Jordi (a kyriotate and, therefore, associated with insect swarms) team up with Makatiel to spread the Bubonic Plague? Obviously, that may be a little far-fetched for some GM's, but it wouldn't be unthinkable. Heck, Jordi could be involved in everything from the spread of AIDS to every apocalyptic plot you can find (except nuclear holocaust, which would leave the planet unlivable for animal-kind too). Of course, I'm not saying that this should be canon, I'm just saying that the anti-human aspect of Jordi is definately more active in my games. In my mind, Jordi would be a big fan of Daniel Quinn and would wish humanity never was allowed to believe that they were the most important species on the planet. Anyway, just some thoughts. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:27:21 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Sapient animals Anyway I think Jordi's opinions on humans is that he's annoyed they're being paid so much attention to by God and the sum of the Angelic Host...you don't see the "Friends of Ants" choir or a choir which can breed with cows do you? Jordi I think personally isn't so much bitter at the human race so much as the feeling he is considered a fool by the rest of the angels and ignored as unimportant. Personally I'm not really all that sure that he cares about humanity's environmental activities as much as people occasionally attribute-certainly he dislikes cities, pollution, and similar things but this is In Nomine and not the World of Darkness. A volcano erupting does as much damage to the world as anything. In the end it's just a minor greviance to the fact he's very overtaxed and ignored. An interesting attribute also to note is that Judeo-Christianity never upfront says that animals are soulless entities and only Papal decree really says that animals are rocks more or less. A Donkey talks in the Bible, the Serpent in the Garden associated with the devil (Hey david, why is Iblis a djinn and not a Balseraph?), and animals are saved in noah's flood as much as humans. Actually I imagine Jordi is MOST ticked off by God telling Noah that he and his family can now eat animal flesh and become omnivores rather than the pleasant herbivores they were meant to be before. In any case I think in order to have a soul in In Nomine one must possess three things A:) A will to affect things in the world around you B:) Awareness of the World around you C:) One corporeal force These things if developed give a animal, undead, man, ethereal, etc a soul. Anything lacking these things has no such. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:56:17 -0800 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Abracax, Demon Prince of Assholes (name tenative) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C098D8.A2735840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the suggestions. I liked the Calabite and Shedite = attuenement ideas, though the Shedite one would require a lot of GM = rulings as to what qualifies as minor. The Balseraph attunement just = doesn't click with me, though. The whole 'forces bonus for such and = such usage of resonance' thing always felt too generic. The suggestions regarding relations got some of my own juices = flowing in that regard: Asmodeus: "He and his servants are a continuing nuisance, = constantly undermining my authority. I just know Kobal has a hand in = his crowning." (reply unprintable) Baal: "How can I run a war if my soldiers are mouthing of to = superiors and fighting amongst themselves? I'll wring his necks = myself." (reply unprintable) Beleth: "He is insignifigant. He thinks he is clever because he = has parleyed a paltry word into a princedom, but he knows nothing of = true evil." "Spooky chick. Oh, I'm so scared. Hey, when was the last time = you got layed anyway? Lemme guess, back when you were with Blandine = ****ing ****." Belial: "He and Furfur seem to get along too well. I'll keep an = eye on him." "Hey, he burns stuff, and all his guys smoke. I think I like = him." Haagenti: "He makes people wase things just to piss everyone else = off, so that's good. But you just can't get any service in a restaurant = if one of his people is there. Kobal likes him, though, so I guess he's = okay." "Hey porker, wanna twinkie?" Kobal: (no response, just rolling on the floor laughing) "Him I like. He can take a joke." Kronos: "His servants to a suprising amount of good for my work, = causing people to abandon nobility in a moment of passion. As long as = he stays out of my filing system, he is doing good. Though I wonder how = much the Prince of Humor had to do with his ascension, and why." "So many files, so many forms, so many folders. I can work with = that." Lilith: *sigh* "No comment." (assorted wolf whistles and catcalls) Malphas: "I don't like that he has left my ranks, but he does do = measurable good for my Word. Wherever he goes, fights follow and = factions form." "He was my boss. Biggest I've ever seen up anyone's ass." Nybbas: "Hey, Badboys are in, Babe! Just look at Howard Stern! = He's an Asshole, and America can't get enough of him!" "Television provides so many opportunities for people to irritate = others. I always wanted to be on TV..." Saminga: "Who?" "Gimme a break. He's the biggest dipshit in all of Hell." Valefor: "Too low-brow for my tastes. Still, he does tend to = bring crime with him." "WHERE THE **** ARE MY CAR KEYS?" Vapula: "Stay out of my labs!" "Hey, what's this shit for?" *presses a button, and a group of = Vaputech servitors start running for their lives as a humming noise is = heard.* - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C098D8.A2735840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Thanks for the = suggestions.  I liked=20 the Calabite and Shedite attuenement ideas, though the Shedite one = would=20 require a lot of GM rulings as to what qualifies as minor.  The = Balseraph=20 attunement just doesn't click with me, though.  The whole 'forces = bonus=20 for such and such usage of resonance' thing always felt too=20 generic.
 
    The suggestions regarding = relations got=20 some of my own juices flowing in that regard:
 
    Asmodeus: "He and his servants = are a=20 continuing nuisance, constantly undermining my authority.  I just = know=20 Kobal has a hand in his crowning."
 
    (reply = unprintable)
 
    Baal: "How can I run a war if = my soldiers=20 are mouthing of to superiors and fighting amongst themselves?  = I'll wring=20 his necks myself."
 
    (reply = unprintable)
 
    Beleth: "He is = insignifigant.  He=20 thinks he is clever because he has parleyed a paltry word into a = princedom,=20 but he knows nothing of true evil."
 
    "Spooky chick.  Oh, I'm so = scared.  Hey, when was the last time you got layed anyway?  = Lemme=20 guess, back when you were with Blandine  ****ing = ****."
 
    Belial: "He and Furfur seem to = get along=20 too well.  I'll keep an eye on him."

    = "Hey, he=20 burns stuff, and all his guys smoke.  I think I like = him."
 
    Haagenti: "He makes people wase = things=20 just to piss everyone else off, so that's good.  But you just = can't get=20 any service in a restaurant if one of his people is there.  Kobal = likes=20 him, though, so I guess he's okay."
 
    "Hey porker, wanna = twinkie?"
 
    Kobal: (no response, just = rolling on the=20 floor laughing)
 
    "Him I like.  He can take = a=20 joke."
 
    Kronos: "His servants to a = suprising=20 amount of good for my work, causing people to abandon nobility in a = moment of=20 passion.  As long as he stays out of my filing system, he is = doing=20 good.  Though I wonder how much the Prince of Humor had to = do with=20 his ascension, and why."

    "So many files, so = many=20 forms, so many folders.  I can work with = that."

   =20 Lilith: *sigh* "No comment."
 
    (assorted wolf whistles and=20 catcalls)
 
    Malphas: "I don't like that he = has left=20 my ranks, but he does do measurable good for my Word.  Wherever = he goes,=20 fights follow and factions form."
 
    "He was my boss.  Biggest = I've ever=20 seen up anyone's ass."
 
    Nybbas: "Hey, Badboys are in, = Babe! =20 Just look at Howard Stern!  He's an Asshole, and America can't = get enough=20 of him!"
 
    "Television provides so many=20 opportunities for people to irritate others.  I always wanted to = be on=20 TV..."
 
    Saminga: "Who?"
 
    "Gimme a break.  He's the = biggest=20 dipshit in all of Hell."
 
    Valefor: "Too low-brow for my=20 tastes.  Still, he does tend to bring crime with=20 him."

    "WHERE THE **** ARE MY CAR = KEYS?"
 
    Vapula: "Stay out of my=20 labs!"

    "Hey, what's this shit for?" *presses = a=20 button, and a group of Vaputech servitors start running for their = lives as a=20 humming noise is heard.*
- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C098D8.A2735840-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:51:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Spiritually aware Animals At 1:30 AM -0500 2/17/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >Cats: I love my master You've never lived with a cat, have you? (I've had a cat who thought I was "mommy," I've got a cat who thinks he's a dog and my lap is his RIGHT and DUE, I've got a cat who appears to be a walking houseplant (no brain), I've got a cat who's a born feral and doesn't trust us bipeds after over 10 years of total-indoor house living, and I've got a cat who considers me perhaps an equal. I've never, ever, had a cat who thought of me as "master." Not even the one who thinks he's a dog. While cats do have interesting colony dynamics (as opposed to pack dynamics), humans can only hope to be "top cat," not "master." And even then, the little furry nuts will sleep in YOUR spot every chance they get till you demonstrate you WILL sit on them if they don't jump quick. (Which doesn't say that cats can't like their humans, but "master" implies some sort of control. Said control is very very limited....) Unless you mean that _you_ love your furry little masters, with the claws and the whiskers. (Or at least the feline-ness, for those who co-habit with Sphynxes.) That, that'd be different. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:56:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Listrules, people, listrules. www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html Go read them. Go make sure you are complying with them. This does include the ones about unnecessary vulgarity. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 17:41:11 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Sapient animals - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Phipps To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, February 17, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: IN> Sapient animals >Anyway I think Jordi's opinions on humans is that he's annoyed they're being >paid so much attention to by God and the sum of the Angelic Host...you don't >see the "Friends of Ants" choir or a choir which can breed with cows do you? >Jordi I think personally isn't so much bitter at the human race so much as >the feeling he is considered a fool by the rest of the angels and ignored as >unimportant. [snip] >In any case I think in order to have a soul in In Nomine one must possess >three things > >A:) A will to affect things in the world around you >B:) Awareness of the World around you >C:) One corporeal force > >These things if developed give a animal, undead, man, ethereal, etc a soul. > >Anything lacking these things has no such. Hmm... Anyone suddenly remembering the "All Dogs Go to Heaven" movies and series here? Lord knows I am. Those Dog-Angels definetly seem like Animal Soldiers/Saints of God in Service to Jordi to me. And then I start to think about Disney's Rescue Rangers (More Animal Soldiers), Don Bluth's Secret of Nimh (Animals suffering Vapulan experiments) and An American Tale (If Fievel doesn't have a Guardian Angel, I don't know who does), Universal's Balto (An Animal risking it's life to save a village's children from their Fates), etc. Running an In Nomine Campaign from the point of view of Animals, rather then Humans, might make for an innovative game session. It would at least help to show that Jordi's not a psychopatic Human-hater, just a lover of life-forms overlooked too often by Heaven. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:29:10 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) At 12:11 PM 2/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:08 AM -0500 2/16/01, damienw@juno.com wrote: >>On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:27:50 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy >> writes: >>> >>> Only if they _are_ sapient. Otherwise, they are animals and only >>> a Shedite of a Fallen Jordi (with the right Word as a Prince, mind) >>> could get one. Or, possibly, a Shedite of Oceans. Also a mostly >>> mute point. O:> >> >> Well, that leaves, perhaps, dolphins, some whales, and perhaps chimps >>and the like. Those are the animals I think of as being sapient, or at >>least as close as one can tell. > >To an extent -- about the level of an older toddler, from what I've seen. >I would suspect that this is still below the "knowledge of good and evil" >threshold, though. In other words, animals, though smart, aren't at the >stage of development where they have the hooks a Shedite can latch onto. >(This suggests that a Shedite might not be able to possess a baby, either, >which would be an interesting effect, though you could also rationalize >the ability as "it's _going_ to be a full-grown human someday, so it has >the 'niches' a Shedite seeps into." Probably ditto certain brain-damage.) And if you're going biblical, maybe there's an Original Sin factor or something involved with Shedite possession of an infant. If you accept the idea that humans have a certain innate evil part, it makes sense that that bit is the area Shedites use for their ability to possess (and explains why they have a need to increase the size of that part to avoid dissonance). Or if you want it in direct IN terms, maybe it's possessing a Fate that does it; this could allow wiggle room if desired (if you have some important reason for a non-human to be possessable by a Shedite, said critter is probably important/sentient/etc. enough to have a Fate anyway). BTW, do Shedim have to cause corruption in ALL hosts, or just long term ones? In other words, if one "borrows" somebody for five minutes to get closer to the real target, does it have to do something to increase the "badness" of the temporary host? >And even if a Shedite did manage to possess an animal, just _think_ >what Jordi would do... Given the risks to Heaven if Shedim could learn to pull such tricks, I imagine Jordi would have a lot of help putting said Shedite down (not to mention such a thing might be feared as a precursor to a new Legion). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 17:47:43 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Abracax, Demon Prince of Assholes (name tenative) >From: "Phillip Des Jardins" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> Abracax, Demon Prince of Assholes (name tenative) >Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:35:06 -0800 > >With special thanks to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's Good Omens for >giving me the idea. Now you know who to shoot. I'm still fleshing out >certain parts, in particular Band attunements. Suggestions? > >Abracax, Shedite Prince of Assholes > You know I can not think of this without "I'm an *sshole" by Dennis Leary playing in head. Brad (I drive real slow in the Ultra Fast Lane............) Think we found this guys Theme Song) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:51:33 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) From: "Mike Bruner" <> That's in the FAQ. A Shedite has to corrupt at least one host per day, provided that Shedite spent any portion of that day in a host. Dissonance-wise, it's in the best interests of Shedim to switch hosts regularly, since they only need to corrupt one host per day no matter how many they pass through, and in the best interests of Kyriotates to stay with a host for a while, since they have to take care of every host they take. Rather interesting, then, that each is inclined to act in the exact other way... --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:27:11 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Beezlebub (write up) part 1 Beelzebub The Demon prince of Corruption "The Lord of the Flies" "God has decreed that we are to rot in this stinking pit. So be it for it shall become home to all soon enough!" Beelzebub is one of Hell's most famous Princes and his presence in the heirachy of Hell or lack thereof is sorely missed by the figures who seek a stable order in Hell such as Baal and Asmodeus. Others such as Kobal merely miss him because he was such an excellent straight man for pranks. Heaven on the other hand still speaks of Beelzebub's name with a spit and a growl as the name seems to reak in Laurence's cathedral almost as much the Morningstars. In any case Beelzebub's legacy is fairly long standing and is not likely to fade away yet still for some time. Beezlebub was orginally a Cherub in Heaven and if Lucifer was the first Corrupt being in Heaven then Beezlebub was the First Corrupted being. Enamoured of Lucifer's teachings from the very beggining Beelzebub soon became fanatically devoted to the man in the manner Cherubs sometimes are. Even when the Rebellion was only a distant thought in the Lightbringer's mind Beelzebub had already had every taste turned bitter, every sight turned medicore, every sensation in Heaven dulled to painful levels by the doubts the Lightbringer had sewn in his mind. When Lucifer began gathering his renegades Beelzebub was his foremost confident and middleman who served as his mouthpiece to those who might not yet be willing to hear an Archangel speak in the manner Lucifer would but would forgive a ignorant servitor. During the fighting Beelzebub played a crucial part in the planning taking only a secondary role to Baal whom he bitterly resented the intrusion of but could not hope to match in skill and eventually philosophically he could not match the edge Asmodeus added and it grew like a bitter seed in his heart that war might have broken out in Heaven had Lucifer suceeded in his rebellion but the Cherubim watched in horror as he dueled with a Mercurian named Marc that once served Lucifer and ran screaming after his master into the Pit. There in the darkened halls with Beleth, Andrephalus, Meserach, Vephar, Asmodeus, Baal, Malphas, Belial, Saminga, and a host of others Beelzebub screamed for the longest time.... Never had the once Cherubim believed in his existence that they would fail in their rebellion. Never had he not believed that Heaven would not become their kingdom and be reshaped into the glorious image that he held in his heart. His dream of power unimaginable and a paradise that indulged his most debased and glorious of pleasures equally was now tattered and shattered as his Cherubic loyalty to Lucifer was destroyed. The first of the Djinn looked upon the first Balseraph and cast down his banner throwing his hands at the Prince of Darkness knowing that he had no chance of slaying him but wanting oblivion to the horror he was suffering from the emptiness. Lucifer smacked his servant away and looked down upon his form which was hideous and twisted "You are the most pathetic horrofic creature in this Pit because you do not even feel the flickers of hatred that burn inside us to keep us warm." "Your wrong. I feel the hatred, enough that I want to drag every living thing to this Pit from Heaven and Earth and cast down the righteous before I raise my kingdom across heights and parallels even you and your Archangels have never dreamed of NOR GOD HIMSELF!" the Djinn spat in the face of the Morning star. "So be it." and left the newly crowned Prince of Corruption whose Djinn took on the counternance of shrivelling maggots to reflect Lucifer's sight of him. From this counternance Beelzebub came to become known as the Lord of the Flies and gathering servants from the doubtful, the repentful, the envious, and the afraid to begin his kingdom. These he warped and ultimately used to claim the Principality of Tartarus. There Beelzebub constructed his great cities as he mined the caverns of Hell hideously for the inordinate number of gems, gold, and essence that he culled from the Damned he eventually recieved and who served as his slaves to creating a realm of opulent splendor for himself. Like Shal-Mari and Hades it was a urban principality but it was meant to make Heaven look pale in comparison and proved to be both terrifying and gaudy to almost all who looked upon the Djinn's need to be worshiped as a god. Beelzebub on Earth once freed to act as he pleased by of all the galling humiliations, a human, set to work on gaining for himself allies amongst humanity and using Lucifer's ancient arguements that he once spread among angels to attract followers among the mortality. Of course humanity's mind was too underveloped for the scope of Lucifer plans but early on the God-Kings of Ancient Babylon, Persia and the unlimited power of the Egyptian Pharoah stood testament to Beelzebub's desires to craft realms of godlike splendor built on the backs of those he considered the weak. It was said that one of Beelzebub's evil counsellors was responsible for the transformation of the Hebrew race from trusted citazens to Egypt to the slaves they are depicted in the Bible. Similar tales abound about King Nebecenezzer, Jezebel, and even old King Herod for Beelzebub took special vindictiveness in anyone he knew as a servitor of God and essentially a coward at heart preffered always to strike at the weak in strength or protection such as humanity. Beelzebub's servitors were everywhere a man could reasonably transform an entire society into a self-indulgent servant of himself and history is literred with his sucesses. Uriel was Beelzebub's most persistant foe and there words were in opposition to one another in a way that grates in few ways imaginable. The closest analogue would be Gabriel and Belial as they share essentially the same domain but battle for dominance over it, each feeling the other's presence intruding on their domain. It is not entirely correct for Uriel and Beelzebub's battlefield was the soul and neither Purity or Corruption could exist with the slightest traces of the other present. Where Uriel chose to directly strike against Beelzebub by slaying his servitors and promoting lawful socities over the decadent squalor that his opponent's touch often left great nations Beelzebub took special delight in pushing all of Uriel's vaunted virtue's buttons. Beelzebub did so by fanatically promoting pagan cults and giving them as much wealth, essence, and alliance as possible to hurt Uriel's faith. Beezlebub took great pains to have the just and moral publically humiliated before brutally deposed of in frightening manners by the treacherous, then make sure that they were rewarded for such. Beelzebub also targeted targeted the Roman Empire that Uriel began promoting for the greatest corruption of all. From his throne in the capital city of Tartarus Dis, Beelzebub waged a cat and mouse game in the streets with the Archangel Purity feeding Rome's opulant splendor and powerful feeling of divine right even as Uriel fed their desire to bring stability and order and gave them the knowledge they would need to eventually be educated in the ways of God. The Punic Wars marked the height of Uriel's influence as the worshipers of Baal were destroyed and Roman sensibilities were coded by decidedly heavenic virtues. Beelzebub however colored even those triumphs with senseless brutality and never failed to remind Uriel that Rome's splendor was built on the backs of slaves. Alliances with Meserach, Baal, and Asmodues soon made certain that Rome would fall as Beelzebub poured all of his energy into encouraging ever man, woman, and child of Roman citizanship into aristocrats. When Augustus declared himself Emperor and his uncle Caesar to be a God Uriel's followers were lost for Beezelbub became fanatically devoted to Rome in the manner Djinn ocassionally were and transformed it from Empire into insturment of his revenge....or so the poets in Hell like to imagine while they're not saying that they shall never see anything so painful as Sheol's molten sea. From the lewdness in bathhouses to the packed in squallor the Roman armies oppressed those they couldn't conquer with memories of past victories like the common extortionists that they were and the Lord of the Flies dreamed of an endless Roman rule while he laughed in the shadow of human christian pyres (while the Lord of Flies didn't invent such a ghastly party favor he loved it anyhow). Ultimately it was this undoing that was his downfall for Uriel while pained to see Western Rome fall to the degenerancy it had he recognized that it had lost the purpose he orginally patronized it for and began making contacts with Christian barbarians of the time even as he was encouraging his efforts in the Eastern regions. The Lord of Purity as Commander of the Host began then to influence the soldiery's march into Roman territories to extensive objections from Raphael and the other Archangels of "Civilization's" deaf ears. Putting to torch everything but the holy churchs in the City Rome itself was destroyed and Beelzebub watched in agony as his beloved attuned died in horrofic manners and the dissonance arced across his soul like screaching coals before he launched himself in agony at Uriel who was watching nearby the proceedings. Uriel met Beelzebub head on and unlike Lucifer was not so willing to ignore the attempted destruction.... Tartarus after Beezlebub's death fell into disrepair as the cities the Prince of Corruption had constructed fell into the darkened mud and to the hideous kudzo that choked them like strangeling ropes. Many of the tunnels Beelzebub used for mining his minerals collapsed and brought the civilizations above them down without their Prince to hold them up. A number of the Duke's of the Prince of corruption tried to maintain control of their territories for some time but none had the power or charisma to do so and by the time Legion arose there were very few Corruption servitors present amidst the damned shivering in the sprawl's twisted ruins that even demons could not be troubled to search. When a certain Habbalah was elevated to Prince however it proved the PERFECT place to conduct experiments and so many storage spaces for equipment! Beelzebub's Servitors Beelzebub had many servitors in his time and he proved especially generous to newly fallen angels who were willing to cast their lot in with him. This generosity did not merely extend to the newly fallen and many angels were often routinely added by a 'mysterious benefactor' while working against Beezelbub's enemies in a long term attempt to corrupt them. It is said til his dying day Beelzebub never gave up his attempts to corrupt one of the Malakim. The Prince of Corruption was equally generous to proven servitors who maintained their quotas and their quotas under their servants and not just with rites, songs, attunements, forces, distinctions and sponsorship for words but also damned and living souls to serve as slaves for one's appetites, great wealth, and power over life and death to one's subordinates supporte by the Prince himself. Thus it may come as no surprise that Beelzebub was a figure much sought after in service to by those who had heard of his splendor and generosity. This like most things in hell was only half the case and for every demon that the Prince generously rewarded he had ten or more soul-killed or sentenced to permenant duty on their back in one of his pleasure palaces or on the front lines in his tithe's to Baal's service...and then some one ELSE would soul-kill him. As Legion showed Corruption is an amazingly powerful word in Hell and only the fact that Beezelbub so routinely lost large ammounts of servitors to attrition (often at the hands of the Commander of the Host's forces) kept him from asserting a more prominent place in Hell's heirarchy. Still for a clever demon Beelzebub was the Sinner's choice. After his death most found places in the service of Baal, Asmodeus, Mammon, Meserach, Malphas, and even Andrephalus on occasion. The servitors remaining however included many more who attempted to strike out on their own and met horrofic fates for their pride and hubris at serving the Prince of Corruption as more than a few were butchered after Legion's demise in fear of the Word they had served BEFORE the Shedim prince and not having the foresight to gall him. Today only a smattering few remain and most have learned to play down their association (it is said the Demon of Stale Bong Water was the greatest Duke of Corruption in Beelzebub's service and requested Lucifer make him the New prince of it and de facto ruler of Hell). Beelzebub Theories and Rumors Anyone with the Word of Corruption is fodder for rumors in Hell and Beezlebub is no exception with most of the rumors having long since died out but a number fairly popular with Game or Fate servitors. It is said that Beelzebub's "death" at the hands of Uriel was entirely by design and in truth it was really an attempt to have the last laugh and corrupt HIM. By freeing Uriel of his word dissonance Beelzebub drove him mad because so much of the Malakim's outlook had become devoted to his militant opposition of Corruption. Thus the Purity Crusade and it's division of Heaven plus the removal of Uriel is all Beezelbub's post mortem handiwork. A similar rumor exists with Legion suggesting that the Prince of Corruption somehow "tainted" the word of Corruption in some irrecoverable way before his death that allowed him to drive the new Prince insane with his desire to consume and corrupt the universe evey bit as much as Beezlebub did, not merely because there wasn't Purity to take an active stand against it, that Legion was too new to cope with such a powerful word, or he was discordant but because Beezlebub himself's will was present and is waiting now for the third prince of Corruption to start anew... Beelzebub's palace was looted greatly by his servitors, the damned, and demonic scavengers but rumors exist that Beelzebub kept underneath Dis vast treasure troves of mystically stored essence, artifacts, and tomes full of secrets that he was saving in case he would ever be faced with a re-emerged Hell. Vapula in his experimental fervor has not made any attempt to explore the ruins and demons brave (or greedy) enough to risk his creations and whatever defenses the Prince of Corruption left might find indeed something of note down there. Unbeknowst to Heaven Beelzebub DID suceed in corrupting a Malakim and the poor creature's purity given to him by Uriel was finally worn down by a being whose essence was as malignant as his was good. The being has been kept imprisoned underneath the darkness. This rumors is believed enough that Vapula actually has been requested books of Beezlebub's from the Archives to help him understand the corruption of such beings. The Lord of the Flies was planning a revolt against Lucifer when the time was right and enlisted the help of many of the older princes and servitors. The plan lies in tatters in all likelihood due to Uriel (who may have had help in his victory) but the dissenters if discovered might still be looking for another leader or conspirator to emerge... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 02:23:58 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Dolphins, Whales, etc. (Re: February 12, 2001 (ML)) At 18:29 17/02/2001 -0500, Mike Bruner wrote: >At 12:11 PM 2/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > >At 12:08 AM -0500 2/16/01, damienw@juno.com wrote: > >>On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:27:50 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy > >> writes: > >>> > >>> Only if they _are_ sapient. Otherwise, they are animals and only > >>> a Shedite of a Fallen Jordi (with the right Word as a Prince, mind) > >>> could get one. Or, possibly, a Shedite of Oceans. Also a mostly > >>> mute point. O:> > >> > >> Well, that leaves, perhaps, dolphins, some whales, and perhaps chimps > >>and the like. Those are the animals I think of as being sapient, or at > >>least as close as one can tell. > > >And if you're going biblical, maybe there's an Original Sin factor or >something involved with Shedite possession of an infant. If you accept the >idea that humans have a certain innate evil part, it makes sense that that >bit is the area Shedites use for their ability to possess (and explains why >they have a need to increase the size of that part to avoid dissonance). Or >if you want it in direct IN terms, maybe it's possessing a Fate that does >it; this could allow wiggle room if desired (if you have some important >reason for a non-human to be possessable by a Shedite, said critter is >probably important/sentient/etc. enough to have a Fate anyway). BTW, do >Shedim have to cause corruption in ALL hosts, or just long term ones? In >other words, if one "borrows" somebody for five minutes to get closer to >the real target, does it have to do something to increase the "badness" of >the temporary host? Some of that would depend on what you define as evil. Chimps wage warfare on other chimps, male lions will kill or eat the cubs of the male whose pride they take over, dolphins do nasty things to other dolphins and porpoises. Do you define these behaviours as evil, or justify them in turns of preservation of genes, or some other way? If you do accept them as evil acts, does it imply that evil is intrinsic to them just as it is to us, or is it a learned behaviour? Pak ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2065 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.