From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Feb 24 00:06:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14931 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:06:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA27169 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:09:59 -0600 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:09:59 -0600 Message-Id: <200102240609.AAA27169@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2076 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, February 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2076 In this digest: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony (part 1) IN> Laurence vs. Baal Re: IN> Re: possible David Tether IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC Re: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony (part 1) Re: IN> angelic/demonic lore Re: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC Re: IN> angelic/demonic lore Re: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC Re: IN> Re: possible David Tether Re: IN> Improvements for a second edition Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 2: Syth Re: IN> I have no excuse for this. None. It's my curse. Re: IN> My improvements for Second Edition Re: IN> Temporary Substitute for February 21-22, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> angelic/demonic lore IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) IN> .02 worth Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony (part 1) Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 2: Syth Re: IN> Temporary Substitute for February 21-22, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Temporary Substitute for February 21-22, 2001 (ML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:48:46 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony (part 1) I really like the idea. Hehe I also love the In references. Interestingly enough I might consider suggesting that the "fragmentation" of the Symphony may or may not have been an accident caused by some cataclysmic event. Basically the region they can't enter the Higher Heavens is that all their souls were split into countless fragments. Perhaps the Fall did it explaining away this. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:56:47 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Laurence vs. Baal Sorry...I meant to say HOSTILE not associated. In any case Laurence is more concerned with dealing with the Hosts of Hell IN GENERAL and frankly won't pay a tether of Baal any more attention really as he would a tether of Saminga, Haagenti, or Nybbas. Laurence: Allied: As per In Nomine, add Khalid Associated: As per In Nomine add Khalid Neutral: As per In Nomine Hostile: As per In Nomine Enemy: Every demon Prince in Hell (he's an overachiever that one) Baal however views the War faction of Heaven his true opponents and frankly concentrates on destroying it's Archangels (David, Laurence, and of course Michael) much more than the others really. Michael being his only real "opponent" he's concerned with destroying at Armageddon and views the entire War with heaven until then a chess game til Checkmate or a prelude to the climax. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:03 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: possible David Tether At 8:10 AM -0500 2/23/01, SirOzbold@aol.com wrote: >sorry to have started an off-topic thread. but I have never heard of such a >thing as the Masons worshipping a fallen angel and a pagan god, and I should >know as I am the Junior Warden of my lodge (a lodge offer 3rd in charge). >althought the thought of David fighting Alemon on this front of the war would >be an interesting story arc One of the rumors in Superiors 4 is that one of the Secret Societies Alaemon fosters in the Conspiracy (The Lodge of Gebbeleth) is organized alone Masonic lines, and some say the Masons are a Gebbelite front. Note that it's not canon that the Masons are actually Gebbelite (my Grandfather, who was 32nd degree, would *not* be happy with such a supposition), but the rumor *is* Canon. I don't remember if David's writeup mentions the Masons or not, but there's nothing in that rumor that precludes the two fighting for Freemasonry. Indeed, I'd say the rumor supports it. And it sounds like a cool idea. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:33:16 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC Wow. This is amazingly cool stuff. If you developed this from knowledge of Aetherco's game "Narcissist: Crash Free," that was a stroke of genius. If you came up with this on your own, I am astounded. If you haven't looked at their game, check it out (unfortunately, they are rebuilding their website now, so I can't give you a link). Actually, I was thinking of doing something similar to this by incorperating elements of Aetherco's other game, Continuum, into In Nomine by way of the Archangel and Demon Prince of Time. It would be the same kind of thing almost, dealing with fixing alternate history and whatnot. Basically, this all stems from me wanting to combine my two favorite games, namely In Nomine and Continuum/Narcissist (which are basically the same setting). One suggestion for Syth, though (and maybe her demonic counterpart as well): don't have them exist in the canonical Symphony. This would explain very clearly why no one in our reality knows anything about them. Therefore, player characters who would get involved with them would be recruited from other realities where Syth did actually exist. In fact, the neat thing about having cross-reality Superiors is that you could be working for multiple Syths at the same time, or does Syth have some sort of "greater" existence that means she exists across all realities (something that could work with beings like Yves and Kronos, though Kronos doesn't exist in Moe's Tattered Symphony)? The great thing about this concept is that it is a resonable way to bind all heretical In Nomine's together in some sort of semi-conhesive way, so that PC's don't necessarily have to stick to any one of them. One year, they could be in the canon world, the next in Tattered, then Steampunk, then Dark Victory, then Lilith-Queen-of-Hell, etc. As a GM, I see many (make that "infinite") possibilities. If you want any help developing this idea further, e-mail me and let's talk. If you're not going to send it to Pyramid or anything, I would love to be able to post your cross-symphony heresy on my webpage (shameless soliciting, I know). Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:40:59 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Walton" > The great thing about this concept is that it is a resonable way to bind > all heretical In Nomine's together in some sort of semi-conhesive way, so > that PC's don't necessarily have to stick to any one of them. One year, > they could be in the canon world, the next in Tattered, then Steampunk, > then Dark Victory, then Lilith-Queen-of-Hell, etc. TORG In Nomine, anyone? Uriel wasn't recalled... he disconnected. ;) - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:43:31 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony (part 1) Nicely done. I have one small suggestion... > In fact, these four beings -- Syth, Adad, Kronos > and Yves -- are unique in all Symphonies. I think it would be infinitely cooler if Adad was a Fallen Syth from another Symphony. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:34:05 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> angelic/demonic lore Benedikt wrote: > > I´m trying to do a different background for in Nomine that is a > little bit closer to traditional angelic and demonic lore. The > problem is, that I need some good ressources. Can anyone tell me > webpages, books etc... where I can get some information? In addition to the pointers Earl suggested, I put together a big source list for my last campaign. You can find it at: http://www.sff.net/people/neelk/in_nomine/resources/booklist.html Enjoy. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:39:27 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC - -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Walton To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:43 PM Subject: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC One suggestion for Syth, though (and maybe her demonic counterpart as well): don't have them exist in the canonical Symphony. This would explain very clearly why no one in our reality knows anything about them. Therefore, player characters who would get involved with them would be recruited from other realities where Syth did actually exist. In fact, the neat thing about having cross-reality Superiors is that you could be working for multiple Syths at the same time, or does Syth have some sort of "greater" existence that means she exists across all realities (something that could work with beings like Yves and Kronos, though Kronos doesn't exist in Moe's Tattered Symphony)? Here's another suggestion; How about taking a page out of Gurps Time Travel, and adapt that book's Alternate Dimensional setting, Infinity Unlimited, to the In Nomine setting? It features a war between two different Transdimensional societies with Alternate World travel technology, Homeline, which is like our earth, and Centrum, a technocratic society that feels like Orwell's 1984 Earth. The two cultures basically wage a war of dimensional assimilation, being unable to travel to each other's worlds, since they're in completly different levels of dimensional frequencies. You see, in the Infinity Unlimited setting, worlds drift along in their own dimensional neighborhoods, called Quantums, which contains various worlds sharing different qualities. Along Quantum 8, Centrum's neighborhood, worlds are organized with more totalitarian governments, while worlds in Homeline's Quantum tend to prefer a more free-handed form of government. And so on. Now, how about we adapt this to the In Nomine setting, and raise the stakes on The War? Maybe the Repertoire itself is at war, with one Symphony comple tly conquered by Hell, another where the Fall never took place to begin with, and now both Symphyonies send their respective Angelic agents into other Symphonies, subtly altering things here and there to bring about those Symphonies closer to their side. Bright Symphonies (Where the Good Guys are winning) would get closer to the Good Side, while Dark Symphonies (Where the Bad Guys are winning) would get closer to the Bad Side. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:52:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> angelic/demonic lore Neel, on your booklist, you say "I haven't read any particularly inspiring translations of The Divine Comedy." If you haven't tried it, I recommend that of Dorothy L. Sayers, which preserves the original meter and rhyme scheme, is not at all stiff, and has loads of interesting and entertaining notes. Great for building up a geography of Hell (and Purgatory and Heaven) if you want an alternative to the IN canon. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:35:52 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Repertoire of the CoC On 23 Feb 01, at 13:40, Eric Bertish wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jonathan Walton" > > > The great thing about this concept is that it is a resonable way to bind > > all heretical In Nomine's together in some sort of semi-conhesive way, > > so that PC's don't necessarily have to stick to any one of them. One > > year, they could be in the canon world, the next in Tattered, then > > Steampunk, then Dark Victory, then Lilith-Queen-of-Hell, etc. > > TORG In Nomine, anyone? > > Uriel wasn't recalled... he disconnected. ;) > Now that's a nifty idea. For a Torg/In Nomine campaign, you could assume that the history of Core Earth starts out like the standard In Nomine history, but Uriel's Crusade, by driving off and killing the Ethereals, who had been much more prone to blatantly toss around magic and spiritual power in front of mortals, began the process of the collapse of Earth's Spirit and Magical axioms. This has had the effect of tending to cripple both sides in the War, until the invasion of Core Earth from other Symphonies begins... Just some random thoughts: Jordi would think Lanala and the Living Land was pretty much the essence of Perfection. THIS is how things are supposed to be. Apeiros = God Yves is of course, an avatar of Apeiros. Jeff Mills is obviously a role of Yves...:) Although, now that I think about it, Jeff Mills would also fit as a role for Litheroy, Prince of Revelation, given that the main thing Mills does is give away the secrets of the High Lords. Or Jeff might be the Angel of RPGs :) The collective Fate of Core Earth is to have someone find its Darkness Device and turn it into another marauding High Lord cosm. This is what Kronos is working towards...though not quite what LUCIFER wants (He didn't rebel so some punk ass HUMAN could take over and turn Angel and Demon alike into his slaves...) Kronos is effectively an avatar of the Nameless One, not so powerful as a Darkness Device, but intended to find the one on Earth and ensure it is used, so that the Nameless One's will be done... For simplicity's sake, you'd want to conflate Essence and Possibility Energy. Storm Knights are people who, by facing a moment of crisis, gain a sixth force and gain conscious control over their Essence expenditure. They are effectively Soldiers of the Symphony, seeking simply to preserve its existence, unless they're actively recruited by Heaven or Hell. Disconnected people would find themselves unable to violate local laws, AND unable to regain essence until they became reconnected. Angels and Demons operating in Core Earth would have to be very careful and subtle, because they'd risk disconnecting if they used any Songs which violated Core Earth's Spirit axiom...and most songs do. Tethers would be especially important, because they would have the spirit axioms of Heaven and Hell, thus allowing Angels and Demons to use their powers without fear of disconnection. A disconnected Angel or Demon would be stuck in their Corporeal Vessel until they reconnected, and the Vessel would suddenly display all the normal traits of a human or animal body (getting hungry, going to the bathroom, etc...) That would be one heck of a shock. Hmm...this could be interesting... John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:48:38 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Re: possible David Tether At 08:10 23/02/2001 -0500, Bill Carlson wrote: >sorry to have started an off-topic thread. but I have never heard of such a >thing as the Masons worshipping a fallen angel and a pagan god, and I should >know as I am the Junior Warden of my lodge (a lodge offer 3rd in charge). >althought the thought of David fighting Alemon on this front of the war would >be an interesting story arc I don't know what the reputation of the Masons are like in the States (from the Flintstones, I gather it's a bit of a social club), but here in Britain, it's a bit darker than that, operating as an "old boys network", making sure that fellow members do not end up in trouble with the law (by having the member policemen and judges let them off, etc.), get opportunities unavailable to others, the infamous secret handshakes and rituals, etc. Now, I don't know how much of this is true; given the way that influence networks work in the UK, I would suspect that at least some of it is true, at least by default. However, it has to be said that they do not help their case by remaining secretive and having membership requirements that effectively preclude women and minorities from joining. Their reputation, and resulting near-scandals, has resulted in a ruling that all members of the police force (and I believe, the judiciary) having to declare their membership in the freemasons. Dragging this back to In Nomine, I don't know much about the worship of fallen angels and pagan gods in the Masons, but I don't remember that being associated with them. I would imagine that if it was, the rather rabid tabloid press here would have a field day with it! Pak ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:40:19 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Improvements for a second edition >>My only wish for additional G:IN material (yeah, yeah, nothing's coming out >>GURPS-flavored, I know) would be greater detail on Ethereal Spirits -- >>there are no mechanics listed for constructing Ethereal characters in G:IN. > >Eh? What's that half-page on p. GIN25, then? It says they're designed like celestial characters, have some extra additional advantages, and have a special Essence pool for Vessels. But of course, unless you want the players to be as powerful as ethereal gods you're going to have some changes... ...unless starting ethereal PCs get 9 levels of Power Investiture? And the Essence pool; one assumes it breaks the usual "2/3 HT" limit? Then there's the Humble or Proud, that's easy enough to discard, and likewise steps 2-4 of the Celestial creation checklist. Perhaps I'm just missing something. I'm a little foggy on how to go about creating an Ethereal character. Let's try an exercise. I want to write up His Faithful Hound, an ethereal spirit. The history is that he's formed from the dreams that people have had of their dogs, or the ideal dog; he's an *old* ethereal (we're talking "memories of barely-domesticated wolves" here, up through "Rochester Dog Show") that's been around long enough to become intelligent. Some characteristics: * Mute, No Manipulators, etc.; standard dog template, minus Pre-Sentient and adding TL0. * Tongues(Corporeal) at high skill level (Well of *course* your dog can understand every word you say.... ;^) ) * NC Fangs and NC Claws, just in case * Selfless (Slave Mentality?) -- tends to jump into a dreamscape and defend the dreamer when he sees one in danger. (Demons count.) Angels mostly appreciate this (and hence Jordi's told the Tsayadim Hands Off or There Will Be Repercussions), but occasionally he's fought angels going up against a particularly nasty dreamer; he seems to regard the dreamer of any dreamscape he's in as Master. *Essence Pool -- not really necessary unless I want him to go to Earth and continue his Cherub-like activities; a dog would be, what, 60 Essence anyway? That's pretty expensive if I want to start from "template and racial package" + 100 points. Not that he'd have any skills other Tracking-18, Emote-18(with maneuver "puppy-dog eyes" at same) and Fetch-18. ;^) So: Celestial Template distribute 9 levels of PI, dog form advantage/disadvantage package, probably No Vessel disadvantage to start with, pick the stats(do ethereals get the stat bonuses?), pay for the Songs, skills, and personality mentioned... ...am I done? If so, I beg pardon for the intimation that the description wasn't complete. But there seem to be some guidelines missing. (If you'd like me to write up the character in detail, perhaps any flaws in the writeup would explain my question more effectively.) >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 2: Syth On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki wrote: > If you're in my campaign, don't read the below. This means you, Phineas and > Eric. ;) > > (spoiler space for my campaign) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I liked this concept, definitely, and the writeup is good. I have a few niggling points, though... > Kyriotates (restricted) > > A Kyriotate of the Repertoire can possess hosts in different Symphonies, > unlike most Kyriotates. Also, they gain no dissonance for not taking care > of a host that believes the universe is meaningless. (Generally only humans > count for this. Animals don't have time for philosophy, unless the GM > decides there are uplifted or otherwise sapient animals in some > Symphonies.) Whoa. So as long as the Kyrio possesses someone with a pessimistic outlook on life, they can take that host into combat, get them KILLED, and take no dissonance? No way. Very unangelic. Drop the second part - the first part is MORE than powerful enough, and should be expanded on. Does the Kyrio suffer from loss of actions as if they were on two different planes? I hope so... seems like this is way more of a cutoff. Also, are the two parts still in constant contact, or do they lose touch temporarily? > Mercurians > > While Yves believes everyone is important, Syth understands that certain > individuals are often pivotal in a particular Symphony's history. A > Mercurian of the Repertoire can look at a person and know, in an instant, > if they have the potential to be such a person, are currently engaged in a > historic endeavor, or have already engendered a major change. The angel > doesn't know why this person is pivotal or even the details -- he just > knows if a person is "important" or not, in terms of seriously affecting > their local Symphony within their lifetime. A specialized Divine Destiny, sort of. > Celestial Chameleon > > This powerful attunement allows the angel to duplicate any angelic Servitor > Attunement (not Choir Attunements, Songs, or anything demonic) that the > angel has seen in operation. (It is safe to assume most Servitors of Syth > have seen most of, if not all of, the Servitor Attunements in the main _In > Nomine_ rulebook.) It is used to aid Syth's angels when posing as another > Archangel's servitors. > Using this attunement costs 5 Essence, or 2 more Essence than the use of > the Servitor Attunement being duplicated would cost, whichever is greater. NO. I know you want a keen attunement that will help them masquerade as another Superior's Servitors, but this is WAY WAY too powerful. Any Servitor Attunement in the BOOK? For just some extra Essence? Nuh uh. You don't NEED this. If they want to fool people into thinking they're agents of Gabriel, give 'em the Songs of Fire. If they want to fool people into thinking they're agents of Michael, give 'em ridiculous Corp Forces and combat skills. You can pose as another Archangel's Servitor without access to an ultra-powerful ultra-versatile attunement like this. BTW, what about Seraphim? They can't lie about who they work for. And won't any Seraph that runs into a Servitor of the Repetoire be able to figure out pretty quick what's going on, with a lucky check digit? Good writeup... this should make for a very interesting campaign. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth...that you are a slave. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage - born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch...a prison for your mind." -- Morpheus, _The Matrix_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:29:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I have no excuse for this. None. It's my curse. - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Why, thank you. Your seduction to the Dark Side of > the Force is moving right according to schedule. :) MOE! Shhhhh! You weren't supposed to tell her about that! };;;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:45:28 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> My improvements for Second Edition - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > (In the end, of course, they have to get 'em all...) That's "Gotta CAP 'em all." That's how they'd say it on the South side of Heaven, anyway. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:03:28 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Temporary Substitute for February 21-22, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Sasquatches > (The Idealists, the Rangers) You know, I wrote up a Minor Choir for Jordi a while back (never posted it, though), and it's _frightening_ how close the Dissonance condition of the Sasquatches is to what I came up with. I'm starting to think like you, Moe. And it scares me. };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:09:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> angelic/demonic lore - --- Benedikt wrote: > Can anyone tell me webpages, books etc... where I > can get some information? The Dictionary of Angels is the best single source that I've found. Angels A-to-Z is good, too. I have a preference for books, of course (a keyboard will never replace the feel of honest paper in your hand), but there are others on the list who can recommend good online stuff. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 03:24:08 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) >(I'm reading all these, people, and nodding at "reorganization," which is >really worth a "DUH!" from anyone who knows me -- or GURPS IN, which was >partly my "trial run" at a reorganization effort. O:> However, all these >"add >this, add that" -- what do I _CUT_ to add all the Kewl New Stuff? If you >want this to be useful to me, and not just "Here's my personal pipe dream" >(which is nice enough, and I've got my own, but they don't help me put >notes >into my head on future ideas), then figure out what you really need, and >where the page-count is coming from. The art? 6-point type? Think about >it.) Well . . . I don't the book with me right now to act as a guide, but based upon our adventures and what I can remember : The ethereals and the Ethereal realm descrpitions (as well as Blandine and Beleth) can _certainly_ be removed and placed in a supplement to be covered much better in clearer detail. This "third plane" doesn't /have/ to be in the core book at all. Neither does Sorcery, but I'd include Saints as the contraire of the Undead. The descriptions of Heaven and Hell _are_not_necessary_, either. A supplement could cover them more in depth, perhaps. If the GM *really* wants to run a game in Heaven and Hell, she can buy the supplement or "make stuff up." I say shrink the pictures of the Superiors. And, although they're *really* neat, the band/choir attunements take up a lot of space. Why not do what the original game does? Have upwards of 216 powers to choose from (they're like "songs" and "attunements" but without the different nature) and each superior can grant each choir/band one for free, then have his own "distinct" power. Heck, you could have just /one/ resonance boosting power, it could be referenced as : add [a] to [b] if/when [c] in the Word description, which might just read: Boost - a: Celestial Forces, b: Will, c: Resonance check Boost - a: Ethereal Forces, b: Perception, c: Resonance check Boost - a: Corporeal Forces, b: Will, c: Resonance check in the presence of Fire Yeah, you'd lose the "special" attunements, but you'd certainly free up the powers. PC: "I want to turn into mist." GM: "You can't; only Demons of Theft can." PC: "Oh. Can I have photographic memory?" GM: "Nope, only Angels of Jean can." PC: "Oh. Can I have Danger Sense?" GM: "Do you serve War? No." PC: A lot of the choir/band attunements feel so _forced_ to me; like the authors had to think of something/anything; many are merely : add [forces] to [roll] if [circumstance] . . . grrrr . . . So, all of that could be reorganized. The Superiors' write ups would have the Superior Description, Dissonance condition, a list of the powers granted free to each choir/band (taking up a whole 7 lines), then the description of the Superior-only power(s), etc . . . Of course, this challenges the whole Song/Attunement paradigm. But, it would certainly make different powers available to more characters and would force players to judge the Words of other celestials not by what powers they use, but how they're /role-played/. Font size. I mean, DO WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE BIG FONT EVERYWHERE? Using a smaller font for section headings *would* conserve a lot of space. I'd advise cutting choirs and bands, but that ain't gunna happen, since they're so intergral to the game-world now and they provide for an "optional character class" or "clan/tribe/tradition/whatever" that gamers seem to like so much (above and beyond Word, obviously). I'd also advice cutting the game mechanics since "cute" rarely equals "good" in my book. Seriously, though, at the very least, I'd suggest providing alternate ways of using the d666 such as provided in the GMG. Perhaps decribing of Risk as the norm not the exception, and actually using Risk in examples of game mechanics in the book. (Though I'm certain you did and I've forgotten.) Disturbance does not even /exist/ in the original game and could be cut, but that's not going to happen either, obviously, since in a world of reality manipulation, you need to have a Paradox equivalent (not that the original game does, but what do you expect, they're French; they just don't understand.) The whole Destiny/Fate thing takes things a bit out of proportion for me. I mean, if one's fate and destiny determine whether or not people go to heaven or hell, shouldn't Lucifer have "all" demons serve Fate? I mean, mortals are the source of Hell's power base! This is a source of debate, obviously, but . . . I think Yves and Kronos need to be reworked, perhaps more along the lines of the original game. (Yves as AA of Sources, having all knowledge of the world; Kronos being DP of Eternity, master of time-related stuffs and whatnot). I hope I'm not /too/ out of line suggesting cutting things that distinguish the english translation from the original french. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Joseph perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:16:46 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> .02 worth Well, everyone else is mentioning their dream thoughts for IN v2.0, so here's mine. .05) Reorganize. We all know _that's_ gonna happen, anyway, but I have a reason. 1) Dump some of the artwork. Specifically, the two page spreads for each section. Pretty, I suppose, but not that interesting to me... and better off on the revised IN GM screen (a whole DIFFERENT matter), anyway. 2) The first and last page of the hardback version of IN is completely blank. That's four pages of nothing at all: add to that the six pages of what-I-consider redundant artwork above, and that's ten pages to play with. Two go to Lilith; one goes to character sheets (which can then be expanded slightly); one goes to adding skills and Discords found in other books; one goes to an expanded list of artifact features; one goes to flesh out Soldiers; two go to bare-minimum Sorcery rules; and the remainder get whatever. 3) Make Nicole a fragging Ofanite or something. That's about it. Aside from the layout issues, I really don't have anything major about IN that I want to see fixed... except, of course, for biting the bullet and retroactively altering Khalid's fragging Choir*. Won't happen, of course, but a man can dream. :) Moe *_Any_ other Choir except Malakite. I'm sure that you all can guess what I think he should become, of course... :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:27:24 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony (part 1) > I think it would be infinitely cooler if Adad was a Fallen Syth from another > Symphony. Interesting idea. Actually, the way I had it, it's more like he's a copy. See, Adad was a Balseraph of Kronos... with the Kyriotate resonance. And then he became a Superior. So in a sense, he's a Kyriotate Superior concerned with the exact same thing... and in another sense it's a lie. More on that when I get around to writing him up. -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:40:55 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 2: Syth > > If you're in my campaign, don't read the below. This means you, Phineas and > > Eric. ;) > > > > (spoiler space for my campaign) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I liked this concept, definitely, and the writeup is good. I have a few > niggling points, though... > > > Kyriotates (restricted) > > > > A Kyriotate of the Repertoire can possess hosts in different Symphonies, > > unlike most Kyriotates. Also, they gain no dissonance for not taking care > > of a host that believes the universe is meaningless. (Generally only humans > > count for this. Animals don't have time for philosophy, unless the GM > > decides there are uplifted or otherwise sapient animals in some > > Symphonies.) > > Whoa. So as long as the Kyrio possesses someone with a pessimistic outlook > on life, they can take that host into combat, get them KILLED, and take no > dissonance? No way. Very unangelic. Drop the second part - the first part > is MORE than powerful enough, and should be expanded on. Does the Kyrio > suffer from loss of actions as if they were on two different planes? I > hope so... seems like this is way more of a cutoff. Also, are the two > parts still in constant contact, or do they lose touch temporarily? This is the sort of feedback I was hoping for. I was considering losing the second part anyway. Anyone else have an opinion on this? Good point about the "two different planes" thing. I'll have to add that in, you're right. They're still in constant contact, or else it wouldn't be an advantage. ;) > > Celestial Chameleon > > > > This powerful attunement allows the angel to duplicate any angelic Servitor > > Attunement (not Choir Attunements, Songs, or anything demonic) that the > > angel has seen in operation. (It is safe to assume most Servitors of Syth > > have seen most of, if not all of, the Servitor Attunements in the main _In > > Nomine_ rulebook.) It is used to aid Syth's angels when posing as another > > Archangel's servitors. > > Using this attunement costs 5 Essence, or 2 more Essence than the use of > > the Servitor Attunement being duplicated would cost, whichever is greater. > > NO. > > I know you want a keen attunement that will help them masquerade as > another Superior's Servitors, but this is WAY WAY too powerful. Any > Servitor Attunement in the BOOK? For just some extra Essence? Nuh uh. > > You don't NEED this. If they want to fool people into thinking they're > agents of Gabriel, give 'em the Songs of Fire. If they want to fool people > into thinking they're agents of Michael, give 'em ridiculous Corp Forces > and combat skills. You can pose as another Archangel's Servitor without > access to an ultra-powerful ultra-versatile attunement like this. Can you suggest an alternative attunement, then? And what if it were more expensive? Like, say, 9 Essence? I almost set that as the cost. ;) > BTW, what about Seraphim? They can't lie about who they work for. And > won't any Seraph that runs into a Servitor of the Repetoire be able to > figure out pretty quick what's going on, with a lucky check digit? Well, that's the rub, isn't it? It's why they remain quiet and out of the way if at all possible, and why Syth prefers human agents, who don't call as much attention to themselves with Disturbance. > Good writeup... this should make for a very interesting campaign. I hope so. And it's only ONE of the things going on in the game I'm running. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:03:54 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: Re: IN> Temporary Substitute for February 21-22, 2001 (ML) Doh, forgot that last *. Sorry. * Because I thought it would look cool. :) Manny Neps ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:43:19 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: Re: IN> Temporary Substitute for February 21-22, 2001 (ML) on 2/23/01 1:18 PM, Maurice Lane at moelane_1999@yahoo.com wrote: > Embarrassing. I seem to be blocked on writing out > something interesting about Shiva (Wednesday's), so I > can't present today's based-on-the-IN-Calendar entry > until I get one. Suggestions welcome. Try this one out for size. Numinous Corpus: Arms It's not certain who first discovered this song, although it is fairly certain that it was in the repertoire of the late ethereal named Shiva (the current ethereal spirit of the same name is but a pale shadow of the original, and does not have access to this song). It is in widespread use by Servitors of War and the War, although thanks to cross-Word interaction, it is in some vogue among Servitors of the Sword, Fire (heavenly Fire, that is), the Wind, Theft, and Hardcore. No one Choir or Superior receives a bonus to the Song's performance, although Gabrielites do somehow receive a special effect, for reasons no one can yet fathom.* No one knows if Servitors of Belial receive the same effect -- so far, no known demon of Fire has managed to learn the Song. Once performed, the Song causes extra arms to grow from the sides and back of the performer's vessel. The level to which the Song is known determines the number of arms that are generated. These arms to not damage the vessel's skin or clothing, but if hacked off in combat do not regenerate. The arms *do* grant extra attacks, but at Accuracy -1, and may wield weapons with these arms, with whatever modifiers the GM feels are appropriate. The use of Numinous Corpus: Claws does not affect these extra arms. Servitors of Gabriel also find that the song generates an aura of flame around them, much like the Master of the Flame of Heaven Distinction, although the aura itself lacks the power to dazzle or stun an opponent -- the flames are purely cosmetic and may not be handled or modified in any way by either the performer or any other being with the ability to handle flame. The aura itself does no damage to anyone, but may be used for illuminatory purposes. Disturbance, essence cost as per regular Numinous Corpus Songs. :) Manny Neps ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2076 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.