From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Feb 24 15:53:36 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26090 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:53:36 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA19669 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:57:29 -0600 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:57:29 -0600 Message-Id: <200102242157.PAA19669@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2077 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, February 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2077 In this digest: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> Improvements for a second edition Re: IN> Improvements for a second edition IN> keeping the existence of alternate worlds secret Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) IN> Heresy Across Time (very long) IN> To Reign in Hell IN> In Nomine TORG (Was Re: Repertoire of the CoC) IN> Discord: Charged IN> Song of Location ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:25:36 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk. I like her as that, shows that the Friends of Man can have bite - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 07:40:24 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Improvements for a second edition Perry Lloyd wrote: > Jonathan Walton > >No. The d666 is one of the > >simplest and easiest game mechanics to understand. The balance created in > >the mechanics between angels and humans is almost perfect. Angels and > >demons are able to make their rolls most of the time (I mean, come on, > >they're _angels_ and _demons_), but humanity has to struggle a bit more. > >Also, having interventions was a stroke of mechanics genius. > > Ummmm . . . not really, they were familiar with GURPS which /also/ > uses 111 and 666 as critical successes and failures respectively. No. GURPS uses 3 as a critical failure and 18 as a critical success. The meaning of 111 and 666 in In Nomine is, IMO, far more *visceral*. And, of course, Interventions are just amazing fun as plot devices; they're not just some critical success or failure (I'd argue that check digit 6 fills that role better, although the level of criticalness is slightly less), they're *supernatural events*. > And, frankly, I /hate/ the fact that Perception 6 and Perception 12 yield > -exactly- the same Resonance results. Yeah, sure, 12 succeeds infinitely > more often than 6, but a CD4 is still a CD4 no matter what the skill level. Actually, for resonances I don't have a problem with that. I don't see why all Balseraphs, for instance, shouldn't be as inherently capable as each other of telling the Big Lie. It's just that some are more consistent than others. This matters a hell of a lot more for Songs, I've found - something about losing the Essence makes players wary about rolling on a 5 or less. For that matter, when you're about to resonate J Random Important person, and you only get one go in the brief time that you're talking to them, your chance of failure is something that's ever-present in your mind. And, of course, even the best can fail occasionally, or do only moderately well. Anyway, the risk rules are there to make rolls less uniform (they apply particularly for rolls at 10 or 11 in my experience; I have a Kyrio Virtuoso that uses them all the time). Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Licking salt is no substitute for a good macadamia. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 07:47:23 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Improvements for a second edition Ryan Elias wrote: > > Superiors that grant restrictive dissonance structures > > should have correspondingly more powerful (or at least more useful) > > attunements. [...] > Eli, of course, has no dissonance condition and some of the more useful > (or at least neater) attunements. However, Servitors of Eli are most > certainly at a disadvantage in other ways, from their lack of a reliable > superior, to their trials and tribulations with Judgement. I consider > this a more or less fair trade, meself. When you start getting into higher-powered character levels, the lack of Distinctions is, in my experience, the major bummer. I have a long-running group who are all about to be promoted to Master level - and the Creationer is still just a lowly Servitor. (Not that he minds, and the whole rank thing doesn't tend to crop up much, but still, it's a problem.) Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Licking salt is no substitute for a good macadamia. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:29:02 -0800 From: "Glenn Brown" Subject: IN> keeping the existence of alternate worlds secret This is an interesting idea. But I think you need to explain more fully how Syth and Adad can successfully keep their activities secret from the other Superiors. First...wouldn't Syth and Adad have access to all of the Songs in the Liber Canticorum? After all, if they want to learn a Song that is lost or secret in one Universe, all they need to do is find a Universe where the song is commonly known. So you might let Syth's and Adad's Celestials use the Songs of Oblivion and Forgetting with a bonus. Second...If it's dissonant for a Servitor of Syth to tell anyone about alternate worlds, then how does Syth manage to recruit a large group of former soldiers? Do that many Soldier's *really* figure out the secret for themselves? Perhaps you should change the dissonance condition, so that one can eliminate dissonance by either recruiting the person you reveal the secret to into Syth's ranks, or making them forget the secret? Killing them might also work for Adad. I also wonder if Syth might sometimes preserve the secret by shanghaiing angels who had seen too much into her service. After all, she's got a bigger job than any of the other Archangels. If she does, it might provide a interesting way to bring player characters into this version of the game, And also, since you want Syth's angels to be able to impersonate the Servitors of other Superiors, Syth's employment of shanghaied angels would be a way of letting her have angels in Service to her who could use the Choir and Servitor attunements of their former Superiors, *without* giving Syth's angels a superpowerful Attunement like Chameleon. Syth and Adad might also get help from Yves and Kronos, since they are already in on the secret. Perhaps Yves and Kronos can in some way give Syth and Adad's Celestials the equivalent of Roles? So when a Demon of Adad arrives in a new Universe, he can get some identification planted in the local Archives which says he's a Demon of Fate? Perhaps Yves and Kronos might even be fairly generous about giving their Attunements to Syth's and Adad's Servitors, in order to sustain the illusion? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:25:10 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) >Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? > >Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk. > >I like her as that, shows that the Friends of Man can have bite *Ari jumps up and down on Moe* "Hah, see!" "I'll give you an Ofanite, make fun of my Choir will you." And the scene fades to black with a great deal of violence and general cursing from the Angel of Performing Arts. - -Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 07:53:49 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) From: "Charles Phipps" > Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? She's too much of a hardass for most people to accept her as anything other than a borderline-Impudite. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:54:25 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) >Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? > >Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk. > >I like her as that, shows that the Friends of Man can have bite The only problem is that for a Mercurian of Fire, who's supposed to FIGHT cruelty, she's remarkably cruel. I doubt her servant took off as described in Liber Reliquarum because she was a friendly employer, after all. Then again, maybe she'd be good in a Revised edition as an example of Discord/Dissonance; her behavior could be explained by something like a little Angry Discord, I suppose. She's certainly on the outs with Gabriel enough for it to make sense. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:52:49 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Heresy Across Time (very long) Hello all! Okay, inspired by the recent post on multiple Symphonies and reality jumping in In Nomine, I decided to dig out my old notes and try to do sorta the same thing from a time travel perspective. And since the only _real_ way to do RPG time travel (no offense to GURPS, of course) is to do it in the style of Aetherco's "Continuum" game, I present to you the first (to my knowledge) rules for In Nomine/Continuum. This follows in the same vein as In Nomine/Cthulhu and the other cross-genre stuff that has come before. I'm going to try to do my utmost to make it understandable to those unfamiliar with the game, but please don't post back to the list with questions about temporal mechanics or how to run Time Combat. This isn't the Continuum mailing list and, though the game does bring up some fascinating questions, this is _NOT_ the place to discuss them. After all, we all here only by the Grace of Beth. Okay, enough of that, onto the fun stuff! But first, I have to explain a few basic concepts: Span - ----Span is a servitor attunement awarded by both Yves and Kronos, but only in accordance with the guidelines described in more detail below. Basically, it gives the angel, demon, or mortal the power to travel space-time at will, with no essence cost or anything. This is _complete_ and _unlimited_ time travel, all the way from the creation of the universe (say around 10 billion BCE or so) all the way up to the Apocalypse itself (rumored to be around 3000 CE, but it's not too smart to span up close to Armageddon, because it's a rather confusing time and you might get separated along with the sheep and the goats). Initially, though an angel or demon _could_ span to any moment in history, Yves, at least, usually restricts use of the attunement to a specific era and makes it Dissonant to span out of it. - ----Spanning is detailed more under the actual attunement description, but this basic understanding should be enough to get you through the descriptions. Frag - ----In IN terms, Frag is "temporal Dissonance," going against your own being as you exist in time. So say you go back in time and your younger self sees your older self. Now, you've just created something that didn't really happen (unless of course, your older self remembers this self-encounter from the past). Bam! Temporal Dissonance! You take a point of Frag (which should be kept separate from normal Dissonance). - ----Unfortunately, you can't work off Frag in a Tether. You've actually got to go back and fix it (use songs to wipe memories, stop/make sure events happen, etc). Why? Because there are things worse than Falling. You roll for Frag just like you roll for Dissonance (i.e. every time you get another point), but if you "fall" due to Frag, you don't actually become a demon or get Discord; you are simply wiped from the Symphony completely. Not fun. Okay, with those basic pseudo-Continuum concepts in place, I now present to you: Yves Archangel of Time "The world has a great history, all the way from Creation to Revelations, and it _must_ stay that way." Very few beings are aware that Yves has two Words (and two Archangel-level Words at that). Besides himself, these beings include Kronos, Lucifer, presumably God, and a secret and specially selected group of servitors on each side of the War. It is rumored that Kobal suspects as well, maybe even that the secret of this whole time traveling mess is the great "joke" that God told him. Still, the Prince of Dark Humor keeps his mouth shut (for all of history, no less) and all those involved let Yves and Kronos take care of the Temporal War. HISTORY - --Secret Wars-- Now, it is almost impossible to talk about the "history" of the Temporal War, since time itself is the battleground and many things can have a strong effect before the time of their creation. Take Kronos for instance. Yves has been battling Kronos for control of the time stream from the very moment that God created time itself. Sure, Lucifer didn't "rehabilitate" the "Balseraph" and let him loose on the scene until c.900 CE, but what does that matter to Celestials who can span time at will? The very first act of Yves' existence was spanning to the End of Time to know how it all turns out. Some even suggest that it was God Himself who took Yves to that indefinite period after Revelations, where all of existence is in perfect harmony with God and His almighty will. From that experience on, Yves knew that the entire course of history had to add up to that final moment, where he and God are able to stand and look out over everything. Of course, Kronos has other plans. Well, more specifically, Lucifer does. The Lightbringer was, strangely enough, one of the few beings that God let in on the whole secret of time travel. Unfortunately for Lucifer, God only told him about the _possibilities_ of time travel, not _how_ to do it. To make a long story short, Lucifer keeps this in mind all through the Rebellion, the Fall, and all the millennia afterward, wondering if, somehow, time might somehow be able to be changed or at least branched off into another reality where he rules Heaven (hello, Tattered!) or the War doesn't end with God's victory at the End of Time. So, at some undistinguished point in time, Lucifer "finds" and "rebuilds" the being known as Kronos under very vague and mysterious circumstances. Then, long before Kronos goes public as the Prince of Fate, he also takes on a second Word, becoming the Demon Prince of Paradox and Yves' opponent in the Temporal War. No one quite knows if Lucifer somehow gave Kronos the ability to span, or if the Lightbringer simply awakened a power that was already there. In any case, less is known about Kronos than is even known about Yves. - --Destiny and Time- Strange as it may seem for Yves to be the Archangel of two Words, Time and Destiny are linked very closely in the cosmic scheme. Time, after all, matters very much in the overall fate (or Fate) of the universe. If Kronos is allowed to change history to create an alternate reality or (more likely) frag all of Creation out of existence, then the universe won't end up at that magic moment where Yves and God look out at everything in harmony with the Will of the Almighty. That specific moment, though, is the Destiny of Creation. All the little Fates and Destinies that take place before then are just all part of God's plan. They all _have_ to occur in order for the world to reach its ultimate perfection at the End of Time. The thing that may not be immediately clear from all this is that Yves and his servitors of Time cannot keep a person from meeting his Fate if that is _what happens_. To do otherwise would be to become like Kronos, changing time selfishly because he doesn't like the ultimate outcome. No, Yves can only help a person reach his Destiny if that is part of God's plan. Therefore, predestination, in the mind of Yves and all of the servitors of Time, is not a theory but a fact. History itself is a bunch of predestined events and they have to protect them all, including some horrors like the Holocaust or Raphael's death in the final battle with Legion (hello, Steampunk!), even though they may devoutly wish those things had not happened. - --Servitors of Time-- All servitors of Time are handpicked. Yves, having traversed all of time, already knows everything that a future servitor will accomplish, something that new servitors find more than a little disconcerting. Still, who are they to argue with an ineffable being? There is a standard period of adjustment usually, where the newbie is watched under the careful supervision of one of Time's Word-bound or Distinguished angels, but, after that, the angel or rare mortal is left to his own, usually after being given a span of history or specific location/event to guard from Kronos. Of course, having a standard assignment doesn't mean that servitors of time can't be expected to be called on at any point in their existences, to help out their fellow servitors in battles with the forces of Paradox. DISSONANCE It is Dissonant for servitors of Yves (serving him in his aspect as the Archangel of Time) to frag a fellow servitor. This means, no killing the grandfather of a Soldier of Time, no using the last of the shampoo when it's part of God's plan for there to be some for the next angel, and no unexpected visits ("Hey there, you don't know me yet, but you will!"). This Dissonance is removed if the frag is resolved, whether by the servitor who caused it or by someone else (including the fragged servitor). So you'll have to remember to not kill gramps, to span back at some point with some extra shampoo, and to avoid your future buddies in the past. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS & USING YOUR RESONANCE ACROSS TIME All servitors of Time must buy "Span" at character creation, since, without it, you're dead weight in the Temporal War: just one more servitor waiting to be fragged out of existence. Note that Yves' choir attunements don't change in his Time aspect. Destiny and Time are so interrelated that the same attunements pretty much work for both (the Grigori attunement is new, of course). However, there are some big changes that occur when applying one's resonance across time, and this section will also deal with that. Servitors of Time and Paradox simply operate on a different level from most Celestials and so often invoke their Resonance in completely unique ways that would be alien to other angels or demons. Seraphim - -- The Seraphim serving the "other Yves" can use their Resonance for Truth across time, discovering how long something will be true. For instance, if someone tells them that Caligula is Emperor of Rome or that Demogorgon is still alive, they can not only determine the truth of that statement but, if it is true, also receive a general idea of how long that statement will remain true. - -- This, of course, is simply a more enlightened use of their natural resonance. They are also still connected with Yves' Book of Names, something that is extremely useful in chasing specific servitors of Paradox across time or simply making your way in an unfamiliar part of history. Cherubim - -- It is very natural for spanning Cherubim to be able to sense their attuned across time. A Cherub currently in modern times can easily be attuned to Abraham Lincoln and a specific statue in Atlantis. Additionally, instead of receiving dissonance when their attuned is damaged (since the harm may simply be part of God's plan), they only have problems when their attuned is fragged (in the case of a fellow spanner) or fragging someone else (used to change history). Note that the following two condition mean that the Cherubim hardly ever attune themselves to other spanning beings, especially not servitors of Paradox (who are constantly fragging and being fragged). The Cherubim are guardians, after all, and don't use their resonance for hunting. Note that the dissonance is resolved when the frag is. - -- Again, the Cherubim keep their normal attunement, though the nature of time travel means that they always know the point in time in which (according to God's plan) their attuned dies or is destroyed. If something causes this to happen before it is supposed to occur, the Cherub is notified by gaining a point of dissonance, above (as the untimely death is probably fragging someone else) and gaining a point of frag themselves (since they know that the person/thing is supposed to survive until a certain point). Obviously, killing a Cherub's attuned in an untimely way is just asking for a bunch of angels to frag you out of existence. Ofanim - -- The Wheels of Time (unfortunate name, if there ever was one) can use their resonance to check all of history for the easiest/quickest way to get something somewhere. For example, looking at pyramids, the Ofanite could find the easiest way for people to move those stone blocks in any period from actual ancient Egyptian times (or before) to the post-modern Space Age and beyond. Note that the Wheel must resonate independently for each period (keeping the GM from having to go through all of history with each Resonance roll, unless the Ofanite wants to spend several days examining a particular circumstance). - -- Again, Yves' standard choir attunement also applies to the Ofanim. Elohim - -- The Powers of Time (sometimes jokingly referred to as "the Powers that Be") can not only use their resonance to find a person's current emotional state, but use it to also discover major emotional trends and events in a person's life. As usual, the Check Digit indicates the amount of detail involved, but major incidents like getting married, attempted suicides, watching your first child be born, the death of a loved one, and others can be easily identified in time with a high enough CD. Also, major periods of confusion, anger, fear, or simply high emotion that take place over a number of years will also be evident. Note also that, having pinpointed these moments, the spanning Elohite can easily travel to them. - -- Still, like all Elohim of Yves, they automatically succeed on their Resonance by touching their targets, though a roll should still be made, if only to determine the Check Digit. Malakim - -- The Virtues of Time can easily determine the overall honor with which a person conducts his existence, measured by a general picture of their life outlined for the Malakim by a list of the target's all-time most virtuous and base actions (depending of course, on the CD). For good reasons, the Malakite will hardy ever use his resonance on fellow spanners (at least, not ones serving Time), since knowing the future of God's plan leaves one open to frag, as any tiny alteration destroys your own sense of history. - -- Yves' Malakim of Time use their standard attunement with great influence, since it also allows them to isolate disturbances by demons who are not native to that point in history (i.e. spanners). Kyriotates - -- Kyriotates serving Yves-as-Time have the interesting, and rather confusing ability to separate their Forces into distinct groups and span them separately in the time stream. They can simultaneously (though that's probably not the best Word to use in time travel) possess Nixon's dog, Abraham Lincoln, and that statue in Atlantis (provided they have enough Forces). This is extremely natural for them, though it bothers their fellow spanners to no end, and they loose no actions for doing this (though they do have a tendency to forget what body or time period they are currently in, as you might expect). Thusly, it's a good thing that they have automatic access to their host's skills and memories (as Kyriotates of Yves) or Heaven knows how they would survive as spanners. Mercurians - -- As you might suspect, Mercurians of Time can watch social connections develop, though they may be only observing them from one moment in history. Again, for each relationship, the Mercurian must resonate separately, so the relationship between Nixon and the American public and that between Nixon and his dog would be rolled for separately. As usual, the standard choir attunement is also kept. Grigori - -- Having your entire choir be Outcast doesn't mean much when time itself isn't an issue. All of Time's Watchers were introduced to spanning long before the Grigori Exile. Sure, in order for all of history to be safe, Yves' Grigori will have to eventually span back to be kicked out of Heaven with the rest of their choir (some already have, just to get it over with), but, for now, they're not worried about that. Being fragged out of the Symphony is a much more immediate threat. - -- That said, Yves' gives his Grigori the ability to have their Roles work across the entire course of history. No need, then to buy a Role in each era, as the 20th century lawyer transforms seamlessly to become a member of the senate in ancient Athens. Details, of course, are left up the GM, but the transformation of Roles should be logical and mostly hassle-free. - -- Using the Grigori resonance across time is not difficult at all. In fact, the abilities of spanning Watchers are so developed that they can sense disturbances that happen _before_ or _after_ their presence in a specific location. Basically, this allows Grigori of Time to make a Perception roll to sense disturbances that happen within their Celestial Forces in years, before or after their current point in history. All the typical bonuses apply, but sensing across time is much more difficult, and it uses the same rules that the Grigori normal use to sense emotional damage or turmoil. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Span - -- Ah, yes. The most complicated part of this whole mess. - -- You know how Yves and Kronos often have that far off look in their eyes, like they're not really paying too close attention to what's going on around them? Or how they sometimes seem a little confused about just where and when they are? Or how they always seem to know exactly what's going to happen before it does? For those who know of their secret incarnations as Time and Paradox, this should not be two surprising. - -- Use of "Span" draws totally from the incalculable power of Yves and Kronos, the only two beings in the universe known to be able to grant the ability to traverse time. The Celestial or rare mortal so attuned is granted the power to instantly go to any spot across the entire realm of space-time. Note that this is _space_-time, so that teleporting across space (in the same point in history) is perfectly possible as well. Switching planes, however, must be done normally. A spanning Celestial cannot simply travel instantly from Boston to Heaven, and spanning solders of Time and demons obviously aren't going to be seeing the pearly gates any time soon (though H.G. Wells does become one of the few Saints of Time after his death, though he was a spanning Soldier long before then). - -- In order to detail out exactly how span works and all the complications that arise from it, I would have to basically paraphrase large chunks of "Continuum," so I won't. Let it suffice to say that, as a game mechanic, it is not nearly as unbalancing as it may first seem, since it is perfectly countered by frag. Anyone really interesting in making span work in In Nomine should pick up "Continuum" itself and try to run a few games using their standard setting, before trying to adapt it for spanning Celestials. DISTINCTIONS Yves' Distinctions as the Archangel of Time are exactly the same as they are in his aspect as Destiny. Both sets are equally useful to those servitors with and without the ability to span. RITES - -- Fix an instance of frag caused by a servitor of Paradox - -- Frag a servitor of Kronos out of the Symphony (+3) CHANCE OF INVOCATION: None. (Yves appears when it is a part of God's plan. No actions on the part of any servitor of Time can hope to make Yves do something that would frag himself and all of Creation.) - -------------------------------------------------- Okay, that's about as much as I can stand for now. Maybe, if I get positive response and people aren't totally baffled yet, I'll tackle Kronos, Demon Prince of Paradox, next week. See you in the Yet. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:21:08 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> To Reign in Hell Sorry, I know I've already filled up my share of the digest today, but, for anyone who cares, Steven Brust's "To Reign in Hell" is back in print (should I submit that as errata to GURPS: IN? Nah.) It's got a sweet cover ala Gustav Dore and the back cover even says "Back in Print at Last!" This may be old news to some of you, but I've been looking for it for a while. Anyway, yet another resource for playing In Nomine Backwards! Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:30:20 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> In Nomine TORG (Was Re: Repertoire of the CoC) > From: "Eric Bertish" > On 23 Feb 01, at 13:40, Eric Bertish wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jonathan Walton" > > > > > > TORG In Nomine, anyone? > > > > Uriel wasn't recalled... he disconnected. ;) > > > > Now that's a nifty idea. For a Torg/In Nomine campaign, you could assume > that the history of Core Earth starts out like the standard In Nomine > history, but Uriel's Crusade, by driving off and killing the Ethereals, > who had been much more prone to blatantly toss around magic and spiritual > power in front of mortals, began the process of the collapse of Earth's > Spirit and Magical axioms. This has had the effect of tending to cripple > both sides in the War, until the invasion of Core Earth from other > Symphonies begins... > > Just some random thoughts: > Jordi would think Lanala and the Living Land was pretty much the essence > of Perfection. THIS is how things are supposed to be. Novalis might like it too if they would just stop fighting. And Andre, well giving into sensation is what Lust is all about. Vapula would love the Cyberpapacy. It would appeal to both his Word and his Habbelite nature. Becoming closer to God through cyberware would be a concept he would be all over. And the punishment of heretics by the Cyberpope's Inquisition would be just the thing a Punisher Superior would love. The rumors that the Godnet actually was connected to both Heaven and Hell would be true. It would be a major battleground between Jean and Vapula. Beleth and Kronos would be all over Orrorsh. It's all about the Ecology of Fear and corrupting beings to their Fate. Saminga would like it too due to all of the Undead. Hatiphas, Balseraph of Sorcery would hang out here a lot, tempting mortals with the corrupting power of The Occult. On the Angelic side, Dominic and Laurence would be Laurence and a lot of malakite's would love Aysle, where Honor is a palpaple force in the realm. The Nile Empire would be attractive to a lot of Superiors on both sides. Micheal would like it because of the importance of heroes fighting for right, as the exploits of the Mystery Men show, as well as the fact that the binary simplicity of the place would appeal to his Serpah nature. You're either Good or Evil in the Nile Empire. Saminga would like it for similar reasons. He knows he's Evil and revels in it. The Nile Empire would appeal to his Pulp Villainish tendencies. Vapula would love the Weird Science, while Jean would just be shaking his head at it. As for the Egyptian Ethereals, they would be of mixed minds about the Nile Empire. It has boosted their power considerably, but it so unbalances the Maat. Nippon Tech would be Mammon's dream realm and Marc's worst nightmare. The power of Greed is rampant, and while Trade flourishes, it isn't exactly the fair kind. Malphas would love it too, due to all the factions and betrayal of the realm. And Nybbas would be in there working with the Media Conglomerates. Tharkold, like the Cyberpapacy, would be a place Vapula would love. The Law of Pain would be something his Habbeliteness would love, while the High Tech of the place would make him very comfortable. I can see him trying to recruit Techno-Demons as Servitors, unless of course they already were Servitors. What Band would Thratchen be? As for the Space Gods, I'm going to recycle my idea from the Madness Threa on from the Pyramid Fnord group and pose the theory they are pulling the Vorlon schtick in reverse. They're Grigori pretending to be benevolent aliens. It all fits. They're spiritually enlightened, highly advanced beings who look just like humans, maybe with a higher average height. That's got Grigori written all over it. They are helping, but are not dominating everything. Why, because they don't want to interfere too much with the Free Will of humanity. Their technology? Well, a few of them used to work for Jean, and when you had the secrets of the universe and a few thousand years to play, you can make some pretty nifty things. Of course there were only fifty Grigori rumored to be left on Earth. The rest went into space. Or if that's too twisted, then the Akashan's are just Children of the Grigori. The Mohani, they're mysterious mentors who have long sinced vanished (hiding and Watching, perhaps?) were the Grigori. > Apeiros = God No, God is Eternity. Apeiros is Yves. > Yves is of course, an avatar of Apeiros. Jeff Mills is obviously a role > of Yves...:) Yup. > Although, now that I think about it, Jeff Mills would also fit as a role > for Litheroy, Prince of Revelation, given that the main thing Mills does > is give away the secrets of the High Lords. > > Or Jeff might be the Angel of RPGs :) > > The collective Fate of Core Earth is to have someone find its Darkness > Device and turn it into another marauding High Lord cosm. This is what > Kronos is working towards...though not quite what LUCIFER wants (He didn't > rebel so some punk ass HUMAN could take over and turn Angel and Demon > alike into his slaves...) Kronos is effectively an avatar of the Nameless > One, not so powerful as a Darkness Device, but intended to find the one on > Earth and ensure it is used, so that the Nameless One's will be done... Hmm. The Gaunt Man as a Soldier of Kronos. That's sounds about right. > For simplicity's sake, you'd want to conflate Essence and Possibility > Energy. Storm Knights are people who, by facing a moment of crisis, gain > a sixth force and gain conscious control over their Essence expenditure. > They are effectively Soldiers of the Symphony, seeking simply to preserve > its existence, unless they're actively recruited by Heaven or Hell. And Stormers are those, at the moment of crisis, choose selfishly for themselves, thus alligning themselves to Hell (but not irrevocably so.) > > Disconnected people would find themselves unable to violate local laws, > AND unable to regain essence until they became reconnected. > > Angels and Demons operating in Core Earth would have to be very careful > and subtle, because they'd risk disconnecting if they used any Songs which > violated Core Earth's Spirit axiom...and most songs do. Well they could always spend a Possiblity Point and create a Reality Bubble. Then all they have to worry about are they're own axioms. I'd say the axioms of Heaven and Hell would be 33/33/33/33. Of course, they have very different World Laws. > Tethers would be especially important, because they would have the spirit > axioms of Heaven and Hell, thus allowing Angels and Demons to use their > powers without fear of disconnection. They'd be like the hardpoints for Heaven and Hell. > A disconnected Angel or Demon would be stuck in their Corporeal Vessel > until they reconnected, and the Vessel would suddenly display all the > normal traits of a human or animal body (getting hungry, going to the > bathroom, etc...) That would be one heck of a shock. > > Hmm...this could be interesting... Interesting indeed. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:35:04 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: IN> Discord: Charged Sigh. I couldn't get this out of my head all night. Discord: Charged (Corporeal) This Discord causes the possessor's vessel to become electromagnetically charged, regardless of the composition of said vessel. At level 1, the Discord manifests itself as a minor but persistent form of static electricity, and is fairly inconvenient for the celestial. At level 6, the celestial is able to wipe magnetic-storage media from up to ten feet away -- and, even worse, attracts all sorts of metallic objects. This includes nails, screws, eating utensils, and, on at least one occasion, automobiles. Afflicted Calabim will, of course, not immediately notice the effects of this Discord, until staplers and paper clips begin flying through the air at their heads. Contact between said objects and the celestial's vessel may cause body hits at the GM's discretion. - -- :) Manny Neps The Demon of Java, Habbalite of Technology "No, no, no, no. It's really quite simple. 'Public static void main( String[] args).' You can remember that, can't you?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:53:57 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Song of Location Hi, I was just going through the Liber Canticorum (I'm doing some more work on the In Nomine Cookbook - http://www.illuminated.co.uk/innomine/), and I've got to the Song of Location. Now, using the Songs of Location, you can create bridges to and/or from the Corporeal, Ethereal and Celestial realms; bridges that behave like Tethers, but aren't. Which brings to mind the following questions. First of all, the trivial: what happens to a human who steps into a bridge between the Corporeal and the Celestial realm? (I would assume he just steps through with nothing special happening, although you could be evil and have something more interesting happen.) What if the bridge is between the Corporeal and Ethereal realm, though? Here's an idea. Relic/6 (Ethereal Song of Location) (18 points) Reliquary/6 (Essence can only be used for the Song) (12 points) Use enhancement (use Ethereal song) (6 points) Essentially immobile (built into the wall) (-4 points) Slow regeneration (once a month) (-3 points) May be only used once a year (-4 points) Harms user (Mind hits) (-2 points) Celestial artifact destroyed when corporeal form destroyed (-4 points) Total: 17 points (having egregiously min-maxed the point cost) The artifact takes the form of a wardrobe that, occasionally, may transport an inquisitive human to somewhere in the Far Marches. It has been snowing recently... The other question is about the Celestial Song of Location. "Yes, you could theoretically create a bridge between Heaven and Hell," says the Liber Canticorum, "but if this Song is performed anywhere within an Archangel's Cathedral and/or a Prince's Principality, the Superior(s) will know instantly, and will most assuredly react!" What if there *is* no Superior? What if, say, you were to create a bridge between Oannes's Cathedral and Vephar's Principality? (Assuming Vephar's Principality hasn't been absorbed by someone else.) Anyway, *are* there areas of Heaven and Hell that aren't under the direct control of any any Superior? I would suspect there would be, for two reasons: * Archangels recognise that Heaven is big enough for everyone, and for the sake of the mortal souls (and angels too), it makes sense for there to be areas in Heaven that are not dominated by any one Word. * Asmodeus remembers the Tragedy of the Commons. The one area of Hell that is free for anyone to use is, surely, the most depleted, dangerous and nasty part of Hell. (And is probably also infested with Lilim.) Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Brussels, the New Jersey of Europe - Goats.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2077 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.