From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Feb 25 20:13:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11309 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:13:26 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA01473 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:16:28 -0600 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:16:28 -0600 Message-Id: <200102260216.UAA01473@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2078 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2078 In this digest: Re: IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> In Nomine TORG (Was Re: Repertoire of the CoC) Re: IN> Song of Location Re: IN> Suggestions for Elizabeth IN> IN: The Angel of Prisons Re: IN> IN: The Angel of Prisons Re: IN> The Angel of Prisons IN> DeusX -- The Movie! Re: IN> The Angel of Prisons Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> DeusX -- The Movie! IN> In Nomine Cookbook updated Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:07:08 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) - -----Original Message----- From: Perry Lloyd To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) >Well . . . I don't the book with me right now to act as a guide, but based >upon our adventures and what I can remember : > >The ethereals and the Ethereal realm descrpitions (as well as Blandine and >Beleth) can _certainly_ be removed and placed in a supplement to be covered >much better in clearer detail. This "third plane" doesn't /have/ to be in >the core book at all. Neither does Sorcery, but I'd include Saints as the >contraire of the Undead. I think the Ethereal Plane is too essential to the setting of In Nomine to leave out, along with Blandine and Beleth. We are talking about a realm linked to the minds of all Humanity, after all. It's too important a battleground between Heaven and Hell to leave out. Keep the Ethereal Plane and it's Superiors, and maybe add some notes about Ethereal Spirits. >The descriptions of Heaven and Hell _are_not_necessary_, either. A >supplement could cover them more in depth, perhaps. If the GM *really* >wants to run a game in Heaven and Hell, she can buy the supplement or "make >stuff up." I think we should keep the Bare Minimum descriptions of Heaven and Hell. No Maps, just basic mentions of important places and who's involved with them. Much like in the current Core Book. >I say shrink the pictures of the Superiors. And, although they're >*really* neat, the band/choir attunements take up a lot of space. Why not >do what the original game does? Have upwards of 216 powers to choose from >(they're like "songs" and "attunements" but without the different nature) >and each superior can grant each choir/band one for free, then have his own >"distinct" power. Ok, now this is something I agree with. In fact, if you keep a wide enough selection of powers, you could use them to rebuild the whole "Song/Attunement" system from scratch. How about this: Songs are the way the powers are normally available, with a skill needed to use and an expense in Essence per use. But Attunments allow one to use the power without the need for a skill check, and with a minimal Essence cost. Such Songs and Attunements would be open to anyone with enough Forces to use them, allowing for more Sorcerors. >Heck, you could have just /one/ resonance boosting power, it could be >referenced as : add [a] to [b] if/when [c] in the Word description, which >might just read: > >Boost - a: Celestial Forces, b: Will, c: Resonance check >Boost - a: Ethereal Forces, b: Perception, c: Resonance check >Boost - a: Corporeal Forces, b: Will, c: Resonance check in the presence of >Fire > >Yeah, you'd lose the "special" attunements, but you'd certainly free up the >powers. [snip] Just say that "Special" Attunements are Bonus powers given by Superiors given to Celestials who've earned them. [snip] >I'd advise cutting choirs and bands, but that ain't gunna happen, since >they're so intergral to the game-world now and they provide for an "optional >character class" or "clan/tribe/tradition/whatever" that gamers seem to like >so much (above and beyond Word, obviously). The "Character Class" concept brings up an interesting idea. How about making default "Basic Angel" and "Basic Demon" the standard starting characters, with Choirs and Bands being more like Character Classes for each side? A starting Angel, depending on it's experiences at it's start, might develop a sense of Honor and become a Malakite, or a love of the truth and become a Seraph. >I'd also advice cutting the game mechanics since "cute" rarely equals >"good" in my book. Seriously, though, at the very least, I'd suggest >providing alternate ways of using the d666 such as provided in the GMG. >Perhaps decribing of Risk as the norm not the exception, and actually using >Risk in examples of game mechanics in the book. (Though I'm certain you did >and I've forgotten.) Actually, the basic game mechanics aren't too complicated to me. Roll 2 Dice to check against a Difficulty Rating, then roll a third to see how well you did or how bad you failed. >Disturbance does not even /exist/ in the original game and could be cut, but >that's not going to happen either, obviously, since in a world of reality >manipulation, you need to have a Paradox equivalent (not that the original >game does, but what do you expect, they're French; they just don't >understand.) I think Disturbance is an interesting mechanic to add to the game, since it makes the players think twice about using overt powers or destructive tactics. Sure, a Calabite of Fire could use his attunment to blow up a bus full of nuns, but if he does it, the angels for miles around will be aware of his presence. And if he's currently trying to avoid getting noticed (Or worst, trying to escape a bunch of Malakites), then he should avoid doing so. Disturbance is unlike Paradox, in that if doesn't do anything to the players itself, other then Red Flag them for others to see. >The whole Destiny/Fate thing takes things a bit out of proportion for me. I >mean, if one's fate and destiny determine whether or not people go to heaven >or hell, shouldn't Lucifer have "all" demons serve Fate? I mean, mortals >are the source of Hell's power base! This is a source of debate, obviously, >but . . . I think Yves and Kronos need to be reworked, perhaps more along >the lines of the original game. (Yves as AA of Sources, having all >knowledge of the world; Kronos being DP of Eternity, master of time-related >stuffs and whatnot). I like the current roles of Yves and Kronos as discribed in the American Game. It makes them truly important players in The War, the way they're supposed to be. In the french game, Yves is a glorified Librarian, who doesn't do much more then keep the History Books of Heaven, while Kronos is a glorified bureaucrat. Kronos, as Prince of Fate, is essentially second only to Lucifer himself, but has duties independant of the other princes, who fight on different battlegrounds themselves. All the Demons are essentially serving Fate anyways, promoting selfishness in their own ways (And thus bringing them over to their Fates); Kronos' Servitors only keep an eye on the most potentially influential Souls: The Hitlers and the Churchills, the Theresas and the Borgias, etc. >I hope I'm not /too/ out of line suggesting cutting things that distinguish >the english translation from the original french. The original french game was ok, but far, far too satirical of religion for my tastes. I'd say it's more of Kobal's image of how the War might be portrayed. As far as the flavor is involved, I much prefer the current Steve Jackson In Nomine, which at least gives you the option of making the War Bright or Dark, Serious or Funny. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:06:05 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) At 8:54 AM -0500 2/24/01, Mike Bruner wrote: > >Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? >> >>Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk. >> >>I like her as that, shows that the Friends of Man can have bite > >The only problem is that for a Mercurian of Fire, who's supposed to FIGHT >cruelty, she's remarkably cruel. I doubt her servant took off as described >in Liber Reliquarum because she was a friendly employer, after all. Must... n-not... comm.... Aw heck. What's more, she's directly dissonant for her Choir as well, by inflicting violence (really unnecessarily) against her proto-servant's attacker. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:03:30 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) At 2:25 AM -0500 2/24/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? > >Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk. > >I like her as that, shows that the Friends of Man can have bite This might have to enter the FAQ. See, I can go for nine hours or so on a full froth about Nicole, and then others who hold a different view can rebutt for at least as long. I doubt you want any of that. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 01 21:12:40 -0600 From: Alec Fleschner Subject: Re: IN> What to Cut (was : Improvements for a second edition) >>I'd advise cutting choirs and bands, but that ain't gunna happen, since >>they're so intergral to the game-world now and they provide for an >"optional >>character class" or "clan/tribe/tradition/whatever" that gamers seem to >like >>so much (above and beyond Word, obviously). > >The "Character Class" concept brings up an interesting idea. How about >making default "Basic Angel" and "Basic Demon" the standard starting >characters, with Choirs and Bands being more like Character Classes for each >side? A starting Angel, depending on it's experiences at it's start, might >develop a sense of Honor and become a Malakite, or a love of the truth and >become a Seraph. I don't like this, mainly because each of the archangels creates the angels (relievers, what have you) themsevles, and becasue of that, the imprint for each angel is already somewhat determined. Alec Fleschner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 03:20:29 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) > >What's more, she's directly dissonant for her Choir as well, by >inflicting violence (really unnecessarily) against her >proto-servant's attacker. Ah, she'd have been better with Dominic's choir attunement (and we don't know that she didn't pick up dissonance from that). But I do agree that I like seeing a Mercurian with bite and style as one of the signature characters. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:36:28 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) From: "Whistling in the Dark" <> That doubt would be wrong, at least for a value of "you" that translates to "some people who haven't heard it yet." But I'm sure it's right for the value of "you" you had in mind, especially if it has happened before, which brings us to another question: Anybody have any ideas when the digest archive will be back up? It sounds like a search on keyword "Nicole" could have interesting results. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:25:10 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine TORG (Was Re: Repertoire of the CoC) - --On Saturday, February 24, 2001 14:30 -0600 Benjamin Acosta wrote: > > Novalis might like it too if they would just stop fighting. And > Andre, well giving into sensation is what Lust is all about. > I am forced to disagree. They'd have to *pry* Andre out of The Land Below. (Refer to the world laws of TLB, specifically, "The Law of Sweaty Caveman Sex.") Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Your tag skill is WHAT?") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:32:59 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Song of Location - --On Saturday, February 24, 2001 21:53 +0000 Sam Kington wrote in letters as deep as a spear is long: > > The artifact takes the form of a wardrobe that, occasionally, may > transport an inquisitive human to somewhere in the Far Marches. It has > been snowing recently... > This plays in so well to my private opinion that Aslan is either a role of Yves, or something *else*. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("...there is the Utter East of Eden.") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 00:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: scott hillman Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions for Elizabeth - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Well Elizabeth getting all this material into Second > Edition will definately > Okay decided to delurk with an idea i had about the game, which can be corrected in the new version .Thier should be More emphasis on the 'new' Aspect of being a human to be on earth. It should be a shocking experiance, a gunt Wrenching filled with new ideas and new sensations...something thats very rarely played up much in the american game...which it should as it emphasises the very nature of the game of playing something *Diffrent*, something more then human.. one way I was thinking of doing this to make a mechanic of it(and i think a fair elegant mechanic of it actually)... here is my idea of doing it. The Octaves system. The basic idea is to add a new dynamic to the game beyond the basic questions of disonance and the angelic and divine.. the quesiton of the Corperal vs the Celestial. its agreed that it is a valid question..but to much of either is a bad thing.Each character has an octive 1 to 6 to represent their ability to interact with earth or the heavens. At a 1 The character is totally in tune with heaven or hell...with 6 he is completly intune with earth but has problems with dealing with heaven... Thier could be stats to this but i invision it primarily as a roleplaying tool. AS page count goes if this makes the book it only takes up a page or two. Here is an example of a rough sketch done completly in the eyes of an angel..it is the flip side of a demon 1. character is compeltly at home in heaven. She has never before manifested on earth or have regressed up the octives enough while here to be at this level.. They get a +2 on all celestial roles, and a -2 on All corperal. The character can't start out with knoweldges of earth outside of her masters domain(for example marc angels could have business...but no one else). All knoweldges not possesed default to 1. They do not default as having the local language and at this level can't even speak, unless they pay character points for it. When they are on earth they have the greatest difficulty if your playing gurps they have the equivlent of primitive(bronze age). They can't use modern machines, unless a servitor of Jean, and even they have touble. Weather earth excites or dispeases them is up to them... 2. The character is finding his way around earth now. She can speak the local lanaguage and more or less take any skill. However it sitll might befuddle her a bit. They get +1 to all Celestial roles, A -1 to all corperal. 3,4 . The default no change. The character is assumed to be as familar with earth as anyone else. 5. The character is more or less familiar wtih earth but rmemebers heaven well. They get +1 to all corperal roles and a -1 to all Celestial roles. 6. The angel is completly at home on earth a master of all. He can order lates and do taxes and loves it..he remembers heaven and knows hes an angel..however its hard sometimes for the specifics. She gets +2 on all Corperal Roles, but -2 on all Celestial. Whats more they have trouble manifesting in the Celestial Realm. One must make a role when turning into your celestial form or going to heaven at -2 in difficulty.however Ones role as an angel becomes more difficult. if ones a seraph to detect a lie the dice gains a -1, if a cherub you have to role vs your celestial forces..etc. However you gain the benefit of your disonance conditions for your choir becoming somewhat relaxed..Offiam can relax a bit..eloites let emotions effect them a bit etc. Your body starts to desire certain things...you become hungry now and must eat to survive mortal food(one meal a day), you must sleep at least one hour a night..A vessel if you don't renew it ages at 1/10 the normal rate for a human. Changing octives= When ever a character does something majorly. one month will change you from a 1 to a 2 a year from a 2 to a 3, 10 years will change you from a 3 to a four,20 a four to a five and a 100 to a six. This works in both directions, as angels learn and forget either about earth or hell. to stop the scale from happening an angel must spend at least a year in the other realm. An angel can also choose to move an octive up, if she wants if she has over 4 or highr rating..or she can move an octive if it is 3 or bellow...however such changes can not be reveresed. thier can also be a system for every really corpral thing they do they might gain a point for every extremly celestial thing they do they loose one. This is souly at the game masters descretion over what these represent. 11,111, 66, 666- is the absulutes in this. This can never be earned no matter how much time in heaven or earth...it can only be experianced if an angel either chooses to fall(for which they must have a 6 rating to do..but if they have over a 4 or more they can automatically raise it), choose to rise(for which they must have a 1 at but if they have less then 3 they automatically do), or do something so amazingly human or so incredible demonic or angelic that it rates giving them an extra diget. Wanting to give birth to a child, rates high for mortality, or wanting to die...rate high for a 66. The Desicion to spend ones entire life serving god by giving up all other love, aubading a friend for a higher purpose, rate high for a celestial. 11, and 111- is the absulute extremes of the thing. At 11 you loose your personality..you become as they say a personification of what your intended...something out of St. Francis. you loose all corperal and etheral stats and loose automatically any role regarding them...as well as efectivly become unpayable. A Seraph can only pray to god,"he is all powerful, he is all powerful..." A Cherub becomes a litteral animal devotidly protecting its last attuned, with no thought or reason...an offam becomes a wheel a chariot of god..A Celestial Car for others, An ofamite looses all emotions and thought and becomes a living computer capable of reciting all that he knows and learning more..but uncapble of anything except reciting... A kyronite a vauge impulse that constantly moves threw everything possession with out control. Malkanites tend to die rather quickly sadly as they tend to gravitate towards hell...which is a fearsome sight in hell, but a silly one as they have no tactic or strategy...just a whirl of destructions. Mercurians simply soul die, with this little contact with the corperal they are unmade. Demons get it just as bad...if not worse...most angels will be left alone most demons however . Balseraph Becomes montone monsters, spoting endless lies from thier mouths, terrible lies that pain others to hear. Djjin go to thier nearest attune and wrap themselves around them...slowly ever so slowly sophocating them... Calbanites, become savage monsters destruction moving as they randomly go waves of pure and powerful destruction coming from them like a facuset... Habalites become to do anything other then constatly speak and mispronce lords 72 names.. Shedites move from vessel to vessel starts to slowly burn to death...when thier is nothing left but the ash they move on to the nearest person. Imudites die like mercurians. Lillim are a special case both bright and dark,will find one and obey him(and it will be a man if the last vesel they had was female), unquestionably and undeinaibly, doing what tasks they want as long as they can be obeyed unqestionably and with out any thought whatso ever. They Will be a Slave. The only way to get out of this, is stratengly enough to role a 666 for eith an angel or a demon. Only the devil can help you now...Whic is something he will do, as the concept of such a being is repulsive to him, even if a demon...perhaps more so. The world is a lie, and an angel must participate in that to a small extent, and he reinstalls that spirt. However the world has light something a demon must be aware of to, and he reinstalls that spirt. He also installs a level 2 discord if angelic, or requires a level 5 geas in return for his services if a demon to the devil himself. If they role a 111, they become a 111...I.E God, or at least a part of him, if an angel. the character vanishs into a mist of white lightm, never to be seen agian. If thier a demon they become pure dissonance in the symphany and disspear into a cloud of mist thier forces scatered as random sin threw out the earth . 66 and 666. If a character becomes a 66, they either rip or fall of thier wings and become a mortal, loosing all thier celestial forces save 1. They become human. They Age, the hunger, they can procreate. They can star in german movies. Their not remements, for the bit of the celestial is cast off...and while they will slowly forget any bit of thier angelic past, they have no desires to help other angels or demons unless conventionally motivated. After awhile(about a year) they forget even that and become purly human. They can never gain Any more Celestial forces, nor learn songs. They die at the normal age thier vessel whould die...they are most terribly human..well except for a little bit which is more an extreme of humanity which is explained latter. Both Angels and Demons can choose to do this...however if a demon(something american movies forget) They are that much more likely to be hunted down and killed, who don't like this 66 stuff more then this 11 stuff. the only way to be saved by this(even if they don't want to) is either angel or demon to role 111. Only god himself can save them and return them to thier angelic or demonic glory. God will do this even for a demon..for they are still fundmentally his creatures, angels and Demons..Celestials..note: If an angel or demon truely wanted to be human they do have the option, of forgoing this beneficiance until thier natural lives are up..in which case they reapear in heave good as new or in hell with a lot of explaining to do. if however they role a 666 that little bit of their extra corperality returns....and they Die death is the high price of living, and it now must be promptly paid. The last of thier celestial nature vanishes...and they die. Nothing can live with out a soul. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:20:47 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> IN: The Angel of Prisons This is a character who crawled out of my thoughts one day... Enjoy. Mahanehdan Cherub of Judgement Master of Law Angel of Correctional Facilities Corporeal-4 Strength-9 Dexterity-7 Ethereal 3 Intelligence-6 Precision-6 Celestial 4 Will-8 Perception-8 Artifacts: Stun Rod (Celestial Artifact, containing the Corporeal Song of Lightning/1; Attuned to user) Role:-Warden Jacob Emerson (Charisma +2) Skills: Detect Lies/3, Dodge/2, Escape/5 (as a preventive measure), Fighting/3, Knowledge(correctional facilities)/2, Lockpicking/3, Small Weapon (baton)/3, Running/2, Tracking/2. Songs: Attraction(Celestial)/3, Charm(all three)/3 First off, it's not "Angel of Prisons", it's "Angel of Correctional Facilities". Mahanehdan is a Model Cherub of Judgement, dedicated in his service to Heaven and in rooting out Dissonance and Discord amongst his fellow Angels, no matter how much they complain about him doing it. It's for their own good, after all. If an Angel is suffering from Discord, isn't it a good Cherub's duty to point it out so they can correct themselves? Nevertheless, what makes Mahanehdan stand out is that he has some ideas that make him even more unpopular then the usual brand of Dominican. Basically, he wants to put a prison in Heaven. Yes, he gets a "Are you Insane" whenever he talks about his idea. But he does have some valid arguments. For one thing, Mahanehdan points out that casting angels out doesn't solve the problem of Heretical Angels. In fact, it only makes them more dangerous, since they can potentially Fall and join Hell. Didn't the whole War start because Lucifer's Angels got kicked out of Heaven, instead of being put away in a prison to be rehabilitated? Doesn't the old saying go "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer," after all? Still, Mahanehdan is aware that Prisons, as a whole, are not seen as very good places. They're seen as dumping grounds for criminals of all sorts, as a place where minor crooks learn how to commit crimes from older, more experienced criminals, and where brutality, violence and corruption reigns. Mahanehdan aims to change that image by making as many earthly prisons as he can into good and just correctional facilities, where prisonners are kept from learning more criminal behavior and are instructed in how to become productive members of society. It's an uphill battle, but he feels strongly enough about doing so. He's even established an experimental Prison for Celestials on Earth, in an abandonned prison ship, with the assistance of a few Malakites, Soldiers and Elohites of Judgement, Lightning and Stone, all open to his ideas. Within the Prison Ship (Reinforced with a few experimental devices to prevent the escape of Celestials) are imprisonned a few dozen Celestials, both Outcast Angels and Newly fallen Demons (And one prisonner of war). With the help of his associates, Mahanehdan has created a few "rehabilitation" techniques designed to force the prisonners to supress their Demonic tendancies and foster their Angelic ones. Cherubs and Djinn, for exemple, are given small animals and are forced to attune themselves to the animal, and are instructed to care for the creature. Any lack of care is punished appropriatly, while privileges are given to prisonners who take great care of their attuned. Seraphs and Balseraphs are given books to read and copy, and are punished should the copy deviate in any way from the original, so they must truthfully retell the story. Habbalah are forced to use their resonnances to enduce Emptiness upon one another until they redeem, and so on. Mahanehdan hasn't come up with ways to Rehabilitate Calabim or Lilim, but he's confident he can find something in time. Mahanehdan's operation is highly controversial to both the War faction and the Peace faction: the former because too much time is spent working on the fallen, and the latter because of the apparent brutality of the methods used. But he IS getting some results. Already twelve outcast angels have recanted their previous acts of defiance and gone back to their former masters, and appear genuinly remorseful (if a bit shaken by their experiences) and willing to tow the line. And seven demons (three Djinn, two Haballah, a Balseraph and an Impudite) have indeed been redeemed through the Rehabilitation process. So he IS getting results. Unfortunetly, his very results have gathered the attentions of Lilith, the Princess of Freedom. Her very word is anathema to Prisons, Good or Ill, and the idea that Prisons might become a Heavenly Word only, to her, reaffirm the idea that Hell must struggle for the Individual Freedom of everyone. She wants Mahanehdan and his little project ended, and she doesn't care how many Geasa she has to call in to get it done... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:40:36 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> IN: The Angel of Prisons >First off, it's not "Angel of Prisons", it's "Angel of Correctional >Facilities". If I recall correctly, the angelic language a) does not permit lies and b) is more accurate and exact than any human language. This, to me, means that euphemisms, political correct-speak, and intentional vagueness or ambiguity do not exist in that language. If this celestial is the Angel of Redemptions, that's one thing. If he's the Angel of Tough Love (wouldn't that be Stone, not Judgement?), that's another thing. If he is the Angel of Prisons, that's a third thing. But "Correction Facilities" is something you'd call a prison on Earth, or in Hell, but in the heavenly tongue if it's a place you put people against their will when they've done something against the law, it's a prison. I believe that somewhere in Superiors 1 there is a description of how Judgement Servitors *can* restrain angels they have captured before trial, but that is the equivalent of a "lockup" or "holding cell" and not intended to be long-term. >Mahanehdan aims to change that image by making >Cherubs and Djinn, for exemple, are given small animals and are >forced to attune themselves to the animal, and are instructed to care >for the creature. Any lack of care is punished appropriatly, while >privileges are given to prisonners who take great care of their >attuned. 1) How exactly can you *force* a Cherub or Djinn to attune to something? You can order them; you can threaten them; but when it comes right down to it, you can't force them to use their attunement. Since we're in theory talking about either demons, or angels who are not exactly cooperative to begin with, I think this is a large flaw to be dealt with. 2) Assume that the Cherub and the Djinn have duly attuned to the small animal. The Cherub will not *have* to be forced to take care of it; it's his nature and wish to do so, once he's attuned. The Djinn ... well, you can probably force him through the carrot-and-stick method described (although see "1" above), but this is exactly the kind of treatment he got in Hell and is therefore unlikely to help him redeem. >Habbalah are forced to use >their resonnances to enduce Emptiness upon one another until they >redeem Same problem as above, with the added complication that Habbalah, unless they're fairly close to redeeming anyway, still think they're angels. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:34:01 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Prisons >>First off, it's not "Angel of Prisons", it's "Angel of Correctional >>Facilities". > >If I recall correctly, the angelic language a) does not permit lies >and b) is more accurate and exact than any human language. This, to >me, means that euphemisms, political correct-speak, and intentional >vagueness or ambiguity do not exist in that language. If this >celestial is the Angel of Redemptions, that's one thing. If he's >the Angel of Tough Love (wouldn't that be Stone, not Judgement?), >that's another thing. If he is the Angel of Prisons, that's a third >thing. But "Correction Facilities" is something you'd call a prison >on Earth, or in Hell, but in the heavenly tongue if it's a place you >put people against their will when they've done something against >the law, it's a prison. I don't see any problem with the term "Correctional Facilities" in Angelic. A prison is a place whose purpose is to punitatively restrict the mobility of an individual. A correctional facility is a place whose purpose is to reform individuals in its care and mold them into productive members of society. Humans have a tendency to euphemistically use the latter name for the former type of institution, but that's another issue... Now that I agree with. There's no canon way to force a Celestial to use its resonance. Plus, most of the methods listed sound wrong. You can't force someone to be nice--you can only force them to act nice. A true correctional institution would focus on altering attitudes, not on enforcing behavior. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:40:26 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> DeusX -- The Movie! For those of you interested in such things (and have the proper plug-ins and connection speed to handle it), my heretical In Nomine PBeM campaign, "Deus Ex Machina," has a new Flash intro < http://www.godmachine.org/backstory.swf > It's all of 140K+ long, so those of you with slower connections are probably in for something of a long wait. I apologize, but there's not much I can do about it. "DeusX: The Movie," as it were, is basically a commercial-length piece of animation that is made to introduce prospective players to the alternate history of my setting (where Jean dies fighting Legion, instead of Rapheal, leading to the rise of a Steampunk world). This is version 1.0, so there are some things I need to polish up, but I would appreciate any comments and suggestions that you may have (private e-mailings might be best, unless people want to discuss something openly on the list). Maybe next month (with Moe's permission, of course), I'll do one for Tattered :) It'd be fun to animate Lucifer killing Michael and Laurence switching sides. Hey, we may be only heretics, but we've got toons! :) Later. Jonathan Kyriotate Angel of Flash ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:08:30 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Prisons - -----Original Message----- From: Santiago To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:38 PM Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Prisons > > > Now that I agree with. There's no canon way to force a >Celestial to use its resonance. Plus, most of the methods listed >sound wrong. You can't force someone to be nice--you can only force >them to act nice. A true correctional institution would focus on >altering attitudes, not on enforcing behavior. Ok, thanks for the feedback, guys. That's what the List is for, right? Got any suggestions on how my Angel of Correctional Facilities should proceed in altering the attitude of his outcast and demonic prisonners to redeem them? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:12:23 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:25:36 -0500From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Nicole (was second edition) >Excuse me...what's wrong with Nicole as a Mercurian? >Tsk Tsk Tsk Tsk. >I like her as that, shows that the Friends of Man can >have bite >--Charlemagne Hmm. It must have something to do with the fact that Nicole apparently is immune to her Choir Dissonance restrictions. "Mercurians cannot be violent towards humans" is fairly straightforward. Attempting to argue that immobilizing someone by causing him to be "thrown back across the alley by some invisible force, knives spinning out of his hands as he hit the brick wall and slid down, landing face-first on the pavement" is not actually violent would earn any player of mine _two_ points of violence: one for the action and one for the implied insult to my intelligence. It may - _may_ - be suitable for Dark campaigns, but seeing as IN (thankfully) has no set campaign tone, I would respectfully suggest that they change the damn Choir. Ofanite will do ... and if means having someone jump up and down on me for the advocacy, sobeit. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:18:50 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> DeusX -- The Movie! Speaking as someone who has almost no ability in this area whatsoever, congratulations. :^) I look forward to seeing more from your general direction; people with artistic talent are always a big plus. >Jonathan >Kyriotate Angel of Flash This nomination is hereby seconded. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:28:36 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> In Nomine Cookbook updated Hi, As mentioned above, the In Nomine Cookbook has been updated; I've reworded some of the entries, and added Common Songs up to Numinous Corpus. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Convert ZIPs to Mac format: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/macifyzip/ In Nomine Cookbook: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/innomine/ It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. - Gore Vidal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:49:26 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) >Attempting to >argue that immobilizing someone by causing him to be >"thrown back across the alley by some invisible force, >knives spinning out of his hands as he hit the brick >wall and slid down, landing face-first on the >pavement" is not actually violent would earn any >player of mine _two_ points of violence: one for the >action and one for the implied insult to my >intelligence. There's another solution besides changing the choir. Indicate that she's Dissonant. (Actually, you could argue this from the existing writeup as explaining her attitude.) And when you rewrite the Infernal Player's Guide, have her Fall instead of the Cherub. (Ofanite? I was thinking Elohite. I think the reason they went with a Mercurian was so the first angel a new player/reader sees is a traditional one and not something like an Elohite where you have to get used to the concept.) Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:10:19 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Nicole (was second edition) I always thought the easiest thing to do was make her a Dominican. They can hurt and kill humans if it's deserved, and it can be argued that betraying Heaven and becoming Hellsworn is a capital offense... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2078 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.