From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Feb 28 16:35:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01849 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:35:27 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA26435 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:39:08 -0600 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:39:08 -0600 Message-Id: <200102282239.QAA26435@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2086 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, February 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2086 In this digest: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Fwd: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Demonic Mindset Re: IN> Demonic Mindset Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Re: IN>To Alter a Nation Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Re: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) Re: IN> IN/MS Re: IN>To Alter a Nation Re: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:11:46 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation For despoilers of cinematic action, you can always tone things down a notch or two. A good man with a bright destiny unwittingly selects a powerful demon as his running mate during a close campaign for president. Should Heaven help his opponent win? Can they really launch a hit on the demon, and risk derailing the candidate's presidency, and possibly his destiny? (Replacing him with a double should also be difficult, and may derail the campaign for presidency.) What do they do if he wins? Can they wait until he wins and then remove the veep? What if the veep strikes first? Should they risk an unprecedented lack of both a president and a vice president, or should they let the demon veep choose a new vice president first? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:20:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) I asked: > By the way, what does a Shedite do with its resonnance in Hell? Jo Hart wrote: > Who needs a resonance when you have tentacles?? :) This reminds me: How do people visualize these two kinds of celestials? Their description in the main book is clearly the same, but I tend to imagine Kyrios as churning, luminous clouds from which eyes peek, wings, hand, legs, etc. poke, while Shedim are the same jumble, only of nastier mein (glaring eyes, clawed fingers, bat wings) rummaging in more mucous-like wads of snotty gunk. What do other people imagine? (In her novel "A Wind in the Door," Madeline L'Engle describes a very kyrio-like celestial, though it's called "a cherubim." ("But cherubim is a plural." "Well, aren't I plural?")) Rolland Therrien wrote: > Technically speaking, a Kyriotate's resonnance is for multiplicity, > not domination. In Heaven, I wager the Kyrios spend their time doing > a dozen or more things at once That sounds plausible. Is it canon? I don't recall it from the main book. > As for Shedites, the opposite of this attitude is total egotism. > They spend their time focused on themselves. That and a ten-minute geas will get you a cup of coffee in Shal-Mari. It still leaves Shedim in Hell with nothing much to do with their resonnance. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:22:24 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God > Oh, I've updated the differences page again. I've added all the > Superiors present in INSMV and not IN, it includes changes to Superior's > words. (there /are/ a lot :) Hey, any of you French-speaking INS/MV owners out there want to translate and adapt Jesus, AA of God for In Nomine? I, for one, would be very interested in just what the French writers have decided to do with something that is definately CDaU in IN canon. I'm sure many others would enjoy seeing it as well. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:28:56 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Fwd: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) >It still leaves Shedim in Hell with nothing much to do with their >resonnance. > OK, more practically, I think that Kyrios and Shedim have some ability to mould their celestial forms at will (ie. sprouting extra eyes or arms or tails.) That could be quite useful. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 2001 09:43:36 -0800 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Mindset On Wed, 28 February 2001, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > By the way, what does a Shedite do with its resonnance in Hell? > Everyone's damned already; no one has bodies, so I don't think > they can act as hosts. Similarly, what's the use of the Kyrio > resonnance in Heaven? My "So Uncanon It's Uncanny" campaign allows Kyrios to split portions of themselves off in Heaven and accomplish tasks simultaneously -- sort of like what they can do on Earth, only without needing to inhabit a host. Shedim are allowed to 'inhabit' damned souls and do nasty things to/with them. Theoretically useful, but typically used for amusement only. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:21:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Mindset At 4:51 PM -0500 2/27/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >This should probably be addressed but demons probably have trouble with >roles because no matter what HUMANS are different creatures from demons and >expecting them to fit into 'normal' seeming roles without extensive >experience and trial and error is wishful thinking if not out and out mad on >the part of Princes. > >Even at their essential nature they are sociopaths from "birth" or >transformation. You are interpolating your own interpretation in here. In _your_ campaign, this may be the case. In other campaigns, it may not be. In canon, there are plenty of humans as selfish as plenty of demons; that's why Malakim can _only_ pick up Balseraphs (and not other Bands) and _only_ with a successful resonance that has a check digit of 6. Shedim are an exception -- but then, Shedim don't generally _get_ Roles. They're too busy body-hopping. There's no reason a demon would have any more trouble with a Role than an angel. The primary difficulty that celestials _should_ have is with remembering to do things like eat, shop normally at the supermarket, and operate trivial things like ovens and microwaves. ("Put pizza in oven..." "I'm sure that you have to have something under it. Otherwise it melts all over the place, right?" "The box?" "It's cardboard, it'll catch on fire." Human: "Hey, um, whatsay we call for pizza delivery?" Celestials: "Yeah!") But that's what one's first assignment is for: acclimitizing. Only the most gifted celestials are going to be given a high-level Role that some junior celestial has been perfecting from day one; the rest are going to have been living on Earth long enough to fake it correctly, so that they will be only "mildly eccentric" at most (Quirks: Forgets to eat unless reminded*; operates on minimal sleep and needs reminders). Everyone else, angel or demon, is going to get some "seasoning," probably at a Tether. (*I had a friend who told me that she never felt hungry; her stomach never hurt. She ate according to schedule and/or when she heard it rumbling loudly. I begin to wonder.....) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:47:34 -0800 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine The form I've always conceived of for Novalis is a fluffy white kitten with wings and a golden halo. Kittens are cute and curious, and I figured that it gives Novalis that "awww" factor (maybe more appropiate for Christopher on second thought). For Blandine, I've kind of seen her as an ancient, wise wolf with golden eyes, halo, and white wings when in her true form. I don't know why. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:39:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine At 9:15 AM +0000 2/28/01, John Dallman wrote: >Archangels in Celestial form can look like humans, or have the form of >their choir. What sorts of fantastic winged animals might the two Cherub >Archangels, Novalis and Blandine, look like in choir form? I tend to picture Novalis as... a giant ladybug. (It's a predator!) I tend to picture Blandine as... a snow leapord. (And Beleth, before her Fall, as a panther.) But those are just me, and they're hardly canon, and for all I know, Superior Cherubim can change their animal-shape according to mood. O:> Or maybe not. Fixed and devoted, after all. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:45:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) At 9:56 AM -0500 2/28/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >By the way, what does a Shedite do with its resonnance in Hell? Nothing much. >Everyone's damned already; no one has bodies, so I don't think >they can act as hosts. That would be my take on it. (Though it would be fascenating to let them "merge" into a damned...) > Similarly, what's the use of the Kyrio >resonnance in Heaven? Since they're restricted to one celestial form per realm (drat it), they don't get to do much that way either. Though if you have one, it can be a "Cel-phone" between realms. Both Shedim and Kyriotates really depend on humans, or at least other realms, to be useful. Since they both tend to have high Wills, though, they make good guards. Celestial brawls being what they are. (Shedim also make good messengers -- they're intimidating in their own drippy way.) Some of that's in the IPG, some is in the descriptions of jobs in the Superior writeups. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:50:54 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation At 3:15 PM -0500 2/28/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: [...] >With one double-shuffle, Heaven can take Alaemon's coup'd'etat and reverse [...] And then _Baal's_ sleeper-agent in the Secret Service zots the Mercurian of Trade into a roomful of Calabim, setting up _his_ agent... ...and then Michael's agent gets _him_ and swaps to one of his Malakim... ...whereupon Malphas, feeling left out, has one of his Shedim possess a Secret Service person (a Soldier, as it happens, but hey) and zots... ...and then Jordi gets in on the act with one of his Kyrios in a mosquito host, and zot... ...and after a few rounds of this, one of the demons tries to zot the candidate... ...and Marc displays that, yes, even the most peaceful of Mercurians can beat up a demon with holy glee. Of course, now he's _stuck_ maintaining a manifestation in this Role for about four years... I think we know why celestials _don't_ try to become world leaders, but only the advisors to world leaders. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:55:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God At 12:22 PM -0500 2/28/01, Jonathan Walton wrote: >> Oh, I've updated the differences page again. I've added all the >> Superiors present in INSMV and not IN, it includes changes to Superior's >> words. (there /are/ a lot :) > >Hey, any of you French-speaking INS/MV owners out there want to translate >and adapt Jesus, AA of God for In Nomine? I, for one, would be very >interested in just what the French writers have decided to do with >something that is definately CDaU in IN canon. I'm sure many others would >enjoy seeing it as well. Back when Moriah was still Line Editor, someone posted a direct translation of the French Malphas to the list, and Moriah said... "DON'T DO THAT!" To do that is, basically, copyright violation of the French version, and it's not allowed. (This is in the listrules.) So, well... Don't do it. You can do up a summery, describing what he's like, but not a translation. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:39:04 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) >This reminds me: How do people visualize these two kinds of celestials? >Their description in the main book is clearly the same, but I tend >to imagine Kyrios as churning, luminous clouds from which eyes peek, >wings, hand, legs, etc. poke, while Shedim are the same jumble, only >of nastier mein (glaring eyes, clawed fingers, bat wings) rummaging >in more mucous-like wads of snotty gunk. What do other people imagine? A good example of what I think they look like, and the differences between them can be found at the end a film starring Jeff Goldblum - "Hideaway" or something IIRC. The two beings at the end are definately a powerful Shedite and Kyrio engaging in Celestial combat. (The rest of the film is a bit poor, but does show how you might go about inserting a demon into a role by bumping off a human and replacing them with a vessel) - -FallenSeraph _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:43:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 9:56 AM -0500 2/28/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > >By the way, what does a Shedite do with its resonnance in Hell? > > Nothing much. [...] > Since they both tend to have high Wills, though, they make good > guards. Celestial brawls being what they are. (Shedim also make > good messengers -- they're intimidating in their own drippy way.) All in all, it sounds like they're both left as adaptable lumps of celestial muscle, combining your description with Jo's. A Kyrio vs. Shedim brawl would be a sight worthy of a "Call of Cthulhu" campaign, I should think. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:45:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) Fallen Seraph wrote: > A good example of what I think they look like, and the differences > between them can be found at the end a film starring Jeff Goldblum > - "Hideaway" or something IIRC. Since I haven't seen the film, can you give a description? Thanks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:22 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) At 2:43 PM -0500 2/28/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >> At 9:56 AM -0500 2/28/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >> >> >By the way, what does a Shedite do with its resonnance in Hell? >> >> Nothing much. >[...] >> Since they both tend to have high Wills, though, they make good >> guards. Celestial brawls being what they are. (Shedim also make >> good messengers -- they're intimidating in their own drippy way.) > >All in all, it sounds like they're both left as adaptable lumps of >celestial muscle, combining your description with Jo's. Oh, I do let Kyrios mentally multi-task. A couple of Kyrios (and some other angels) could be having a discussion, and the Kyrios are playing chess quietly at the same time. (Having manifested an eye or two and a hand to move the pieces.) Or read several books at once. (Maybe one per Ethereal Force?) I think the text is fairly clear on the differences between Shedim and Kyrios: Shedim are drippy and fleshless, with organs showing and lots of amophosness. Kyriotates have recognizable limbs, hands, yadda, and don't drip. O:> >A Kyrio vs. Shedim brawl would be a sight worthy of a "Call of >Cthulhu" campaign, I should think. Totally. Especially considering what their forms do to human observers... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:28:36 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) >Since I haven't seen the film, can you give a description? At the climax of the film, Jeff (host to the kyrio) faces off against the host of the Sdehite, and using bright light (obviously vulnerable/6 light) forces the shedite to leave the body. it looks like a swarm of red insects initially, but they collect together into a glowing fiery ball with screaming, rage/pain filled faces appearing and dissapearing across the surface. (Shed of Fire?) The Kyrio then leaves Jeff's body and takes the form looking like a blue glowing jellyfish/Orchid/Alien from "The Abyss" hybrid. They trade zappy Cel song of Light blows briefly, before goldblum whacks the shed's host with a shotgun, and it either dies or flees to hell. it isn't really clear. Suffice to say, this is the only really good bit of the film. There is still the role filling aspect, and theres a sort of 2 way cherubic bond between the "Dark being" and "Light Being" which means they can occasionally see through the eyes of the other's host. good for plot seeds I guess. - -FallenSeraph ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon and his angels fought, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:7-8 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:45:52 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) Our spies report that on 02:55 PM 2/28/01 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy said: >So, well... Don't do it. You can do up a summery, describing what >he's like, but not a translation. It is a pity. I have no facility with human languages (I do sling some mean code in multiple computer languages...) and couldn't learn Spanish after a great deal of effort. I expect French would be no different. Usually when something Really Neat is written in another language, it can either be had translated by enthusiasts (because the authors/company have no intention of translating it and don't pursue action against said enthusiasts) or an actual official translation, typically with minor alterations, becomes available. But on rare occasions, say with certain Japanese cartoons, an American company buys the rights and proceeded to unleash the unholy fury of the Legal Department on the enthusiasts while not quite translating the cartoons. They use perhaps 80% of the animation itself and change all the dialog, rendering the storyline completely different than what it was. Sometimes, the resulting cartoon is good. Sometimes, the resulting cartoon is bad. Always, it makes finding an actual translation much, much harder. I have always wondered prompted these Media companies to essentially prevent the original content from ever being published in English. None of them are big on answering letters asking about this...but here we have a game company that is in much closer touch with the fans. A nice, friendly gaming company that I like a lot. Bear in mind that I love In Nomine for what it is. I helped run the officially sanctioned tournament at OrcCon in Los Angeles a few weeks ago and every game was packed to the rafters. I had nine people in one game. Out here, at least, the current franchise seems to be going pretty well. But yet... ... I have been looking forward to In Nomine ever since the very first announcements were made. Since that time, I have learned more about the original game (INS/MV). I really want to access the original content of INS/MV. I would pay for it ... but I would rather give my money to SJG than to French majors at UCLA. So I ask the Line Editor herself, "Why won't you publish or allow to be made available the content of the original game? Does it somehow benefit the company to keep that from becoming available?" Yours with great hope, Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:56:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Shedim are drippy and fleshless, with organs showing and > lots of amophosness. Kyriotates have recognizable limbs, hands, yadda, > and don't drip. O:> What a nasty shock it must have been to the Kyrios who fell in the original Fall, to find out what they had become. The first Calabim must have been even more stunned; I mean, one minute you're a system of firey wheels, and the next, you're a horned and winged humanoid. (I've always felt that was too big a disconnect. I've suggested Calabim should look like swarms of crescents, chopping like scimitars; others have suggested dark spirals -- broken circles.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:03:24 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) From: "Earl Wajenberg" > > I've suggested Calabim should look like swarms of crescents, > chopping like scimitars; others have suggested dark spirals -- > broken circles.) I personally prefer the idea of a calabite's celesteal form being that of a cracked sphere, like how a star collapses. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:10:16 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God > So, well... Don't do it. You can do up a summery, describing what > he's like, but not a translation. Ok, boys -- run that puppy through babelfish instead. ;-) > --Beth, List Admin Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:37:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) At 12:45 PM -0800 2/28/01, Sean McCarthy wrote: >Our spies report that on 02:55 PM 2/28/01 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy said: > >>So, well... Don't do it. You can do up a summery, describing what >>he's like, but not a translation. > > It is a pity. Yes, but it is also the livelihood of Croc/Asmodee/Siroz. Remember, a translation works against them, as well, because some people who _could_ read French if they worked at it would take the free translation instead of purchasing a book. Or French readers might take the English and translate it back and not buy the book. In either case, an unauthorized translation could cost them money, and they are, of course, not going to be happy about that. (Now, if you want to acquire a copy of your own, and then sucker someone who speaks French into sending you a private email English translation, I would say that you are entirely in the moral high ground. O:> ) The authorized translation/adaptation that SJGames has is, naturally, paid for. (I don't know those details, though.) If someone wants to talk to SJGames and Croc/Asmodee/Siroz (whichever of those last three are the legal entity who has the authority there) about doing a _straight_ INS/MV translation... It would be an interesting thing. (On the other hand, before you get all fired up about it, do remember that the original Khalid in Final Trumpet is an almost verbatim translation of the French Khalid. (With the addition of a Choir, which INS/MV doesn't have.) If you _liked_ Khalid that way, you'd probably prefer INS/MV. If you thought it was Just Plain Wrong... >So I ask the Line Editor herself, "Why won't you publish or allow to be >made available the content of the original game? Does it somehow benefit >the company to keep that from becoming available?" The above is why the original is not allowed to be made available as an unauthorized freebie translation. I, and SJGames, make money off of Intellectual Property. It's not my sole means of support, but it is the company's, so we are, naturally, sympathetic to the issues of maintaining control over Intellectual Property. (I don't seek out or own fansubs, either; I do buy subtitled anime, and prefer the unedited versions...) As to why the original is not published by SJGames -- I assume that SJ believes it will not sell sufficiently well to recoup the costs of printing it. (He's been in the business a long time; I suspect that he is generally pretty savvy about it.) If he thought it would sell, I'm sure that he would have had Derek translate it verbatim, perhaps tinkered with the mechanics (the original mechanics, as explained to me by a French-reader, sound cumbersome and evil, with lots of referring to charts), gotten new art for it, and printed it as-is. That's why IN/SJG is what it is, and not INS/MV, and why this mailing list will not give permission to violate the INS/MV copyrights. (Two separate things, roughly linked.) Now, as I noted above, it is entirely possible that some agreement could be reached, with someone else licensing the rights from probably both SJGames _and_ the French bunch, to produce a direct translation on their own dime. I don't know exactly what's in the IN/SJG contract (except that it doesn't include fiction, _darnit_), so I don't know how easy Siroz/Croc/ Asmodee is to deal with or how much money they'd want or royalties or whatever. If you really wanted to attempt to get approval for a "pure" translation, I could try to put you in touch with SJ or Alain, who would presumably know the French contact address for that half of things. (Or some of the people on the list might know that data; I know at least One Person who is a fan of _Scales_, a dragon RPG by the same French bunch, and is on their French mailing list...) - --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor (arcangel@io.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:49:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Possessors (Re: Demonic Mindset) At 3:56 PM -0500 2/28/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Shedim are drippy and fleshless, with organs showing and >> lots of amophosness. Kyriotates have recognizable limbs, hands, yadda, >> and don't drip. O:> > >What a nasty shock it must have been to the Kyrios who fell in >the original Fall, to find out what they had become. The first >Calabim must have been even more stunned; I mean, one minute you're >a system of firey wheels, and the next, you're a horned and winged >humanoid. I've got a bit of fiction hidden away about an Ofanite in the process of Falling... He's a bit of a weird one -- his Word is letting him pull a very... slow-motion Fall. But still... Oh, bah, what the heck. It's a fair use paragraph anyway... - ---------------

There was a gun-shot, and as he was wounded, the Target stopped fighting the Song. Baasha's vessel dropped away in a whirl of fire, revealing a huge Wheel -- and at the center of it, the impression of something spinning. It stopped, and Betharan would have caught her breath if she'd been corporeal. A Calabite, yes, but with an angel's face and burning wings. Not phoenix- wings, either, renewed, but blackening feathers. A flickering aura surrounded him.

There's no way we can take that thing out! she thought in horror. Not and live!

[[Combat ensews]]

Betharan saw her chance and dove, wrapping her arms around the Calabite's neck. "The Game offers you sanctuary!" she crooned in the angelic tongue. "Judgment will only give you death!"

[...] The Outcast Calabite-Wheel nodded. "Show me, Lilim!"

"Follow!" she ordered, and dove for her Heart.

[...]

The Calabite-Wheel appeared beside her in a blazing rush. He danced in circles, wild-eyed, with his burning wings making a parody of his angel-form. "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God," he sang angelically. "What am I doing? Why am I here?"

- --------------- >(I've always felt that was too big a disconnect. >I've suggested Calabim should look like swarms of crescents, >chopping like scimitars; others have suggested dark spirals -- >broken circles.) I suspect that it may have been a case of looking at demonic "types" and deciding that Impudites didn't quite cut the ruffian bat-wing image. Dunno. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:13:23 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) I'm not on a mailing list, but I am a frequent visitor to the Siroz webpage, which has a question/answer section. Check out http://www.siroz.com -- it's useful. Genevieve >Now, as I noted above, it is entirely possible that some agreement could >be reached, with someone else licensing the rights from probably both >SJGames _and_ the French bunch, to produce a direct translation on their >own dime. I don't know exactly what's in the IN/SJG contract (except that >it doesn't include fiction, _darnit_), so I don't know how easy Siroz/Croc/ >Asmodee is to deal with or how much money they'd want or royalties or whatever. >If you really wanted to attempt to get approval for a "pure" translation, >I could try to put you in touch with SJ or Alain, who would presumably know >the French contact address for that half of things. (Or some of the people >on the list might know that data; I know at least One Person who is a fan >of _Scales_, a dragon RPG by the same French bunch, and is on their French >mailing list...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:46:27 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:10:16 -0700 "Ben Glickler" writes: > > So, well... Don't do it. You can do up a summery, describing what > > he's like, but not a translation. > > Ok, boys -- run that puppy through babelfish instead. ;-) Of course, then you'd mind up getting something on the same level of quality as "All Your Jesuii Belong To Us". :P - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:38:20 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Kyrios & Shedim at home (was Demonic Mindset) On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:20:41 -0500 Earl Wajenberg writes: > > That sounds plausible. Is it canon? I don't recall it from the > main book. It's mentioned in the APG that Kyrios, while their resonance isn't much good in Heaven, DO multitask well even there. > > As for Shedites, the opposite of this attitude is total egotism. > > They spend their time focused on themselves. > > That and a ten-minute geas will get you a cup of coffee in > Shal-Mari. > It still leaves Shedim in Hell with nothing much to do with their > resonnance. Yeah, but the Shedite doesn't care. (The main book implies that Shedites probably spend most of their time outside of Hell.) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:27:19 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> IN/MS On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:14:15 "Perry Lloyd" writes: > > So... basically, the only thing IN and INS/MV has in common is > >the name, and dealing with angels and demons. So, why'd SJG bother > >licensing it again? > > Uhhh . . . because IN /does/ use a small number of the Superiors > (and lifts many of the distinctions directly), and many Discords > reflect INSMV Limitations . . . uh . . . Oh, and IN uses the > same names for the majority > of the Superiors from INSMV . . . and . . . uh . . . yeah. Bah. While it only applies to some of 'em, I think they could hardly copyright things mentioned in the Bible or apocryphia. The implementation of em, yeah, I can buy that, but (just frex) it sounds like IN Michael, the Firstborn Warrior, has nothing to do with INS/MV Michael, Former Viking Warrior. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:52:53 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation [sixteen double-shuffles later] > I think we know why celestials _don't_ try to become world leaders, but > only the advisors to world leaders. Yeah, that's about what I hinted at the end of mine. Of course, if any Demon Prince would overestimate his ability to do this and keep it secret from all the others, it'd be Alaemon. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:14:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Translations (was Re: Jesus, AA of God) At 9:13 PM +0000 2/28/01, Genevieve Cogman wrote: >I'm not on a mailing list, but I am a frequent visitor to the Siroz webpage, >which has a question/answer section. Check out http://www.siroz.com -- it's >useful. For the French-impaired (such as moi*), go to the site and pick your interest, _then_ copy the URL and go to babelfish.altavista.com and get it to translate. The javascript didn't like babelfish looking at it from the main page. ( http://www.siroz.com/cgi-bin/gscgi.exe?node=asmodee/ins&mot$=INDEX&id1=88722 is the In Nomine page. Most excellently, the links along the side are to expansion books, complete with sample art.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:27:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God At 4:46 PM -0500 2/28/01, damienw@juno.com wrote: >On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:10:16 -0700 "Ben Glickler" >writes: >> Ok, boys -- run that puppy through babelfish instead. ;-) > > Of course, then you'd mind up getting something on the same level of >quality as "All Your Jesuii Belong To Us". :P But it's _fun_! I'm using Babelfish to poke around the siroz site, and... for Demonix Remix: "here are fatty udders of this supplement which does not make in lace (except perhaps that of which relative maidservants of Andromalius)," I love it. (I am informed by someone who can translate this, that this line probably _should_ be more accurately transcribed as: "here's a big-breasted supplement which doesn't bother about the niceties (except perhaps for servants of Andromalius)". I'm not sure which I prefer. O:> ) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:30:02 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God INS/MV Babelfish: They are nevertheless rascals these angels with all their small secrecies, whose any newspaper with feeling would make its fatty cabbages. That about sums the game up. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:32:54 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jesus, AA of God From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > I'm not sure which I prefer. O:> ) I liked the first one better, but then again I am the one who used Popeman as my fantasy football team's mascot... ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 06:58:00 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN > >>Of course, I understand why SJG didn't merely translate INS/MV in its > >>entirety (sp?) - because American sensiblity might not be able to handle > >>the take on religious beliefs that the French game has. > >Now my curiosity has been piqued. What's so bad about the French game? >Come >on! Offend my delicate sensibilities, damn you! While I'm glad you're >respecting the intellectual property rights of the French publisher, I wish >you didn't have to gloat about it to all us non- Francophones, (no >offense). >That being said, can anyone give me a quick summation about what in the >name >of Hell is so wicked about the original French game that that us >feeble-minded Americans simply wouldn't be able to cope? I want my mind >blown, and I want it blown now!! > >Steve Talk to SJGames, they're sitting on the rights to publish it in english. Seriously, though, I believe it comes from a combination of foul language and interpretations of religious themes that could cause the book to be burned in public by the freaky American Religious Right. Maybe in Canada, Great Britian and Australia, but I don't think America is mature enough to handle the book. Doesn't mean I'm not not upset about it not being published in english. I mean, the language could stand to be cleaned up a little I suppose. But, INSMV actually talks about JESUS, and offers up an in-game interpretation of the history surrounding H/him. Not something SJGames is about to do, I imagine. I mean, we don't need the Christian Coalition raiding their offices a mere decade (or so) after the USSS raid, you know? Hell, with Bush in office , the Christian Coalition may be on its way to becoming the fourth branch of government anyway. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2086 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.