From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 1 15:24:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07483 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:24:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA05921 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:29:13 -0600 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:29:13 -0600 Message-Id: <200103012129.PAA05921@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2089 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 1 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2089 In this digest: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2088 Re: IN> New ethereal (was: re: To Alter a Nation) Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN -- a few quotes Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine Re: IN>To Alter a Nation Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) Re: IN>To Alter a Nation Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) Re: IN>To Alter a Nation Re: IN>To Alter a Nation In Glamine (WAS: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation) Re: In Glamine (WAS: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation) Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War IN> Jesus, AA of God IN> The Choir Angels: Wacae Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> The Choir Angels: Wacae IN> Leitmotiv: Enemies of the State Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN -- a few quotes Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War IN> Bodywork Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:21:22 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War >From: "Janet Anderson" > >So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? Oh, I think Heaven per se tends to be old-fashioned, but I'm sure Janus was betting on the Roundheads. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:35:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) From what I've heard earlier on this list, both Charles' and Rolland's versions of Jesus as Archangel are considerably more reverent than the INS/MV version, who is a spoiled, whiny brat but, unfortunately, the boss's son. Rolland Therrien wrote: > took, taking along his wife, Mary the Magdalena Happy news for the Priory of Zion and the "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" crowd, who maintain that Jesus and Mary Magdalene founded the Merovingian dynasty of France. > And so Jesus, Son of Joseph and Mary, was arrested, tried by the > Pharisens, He was tried by the Sanhedrin, the temple council, which was dominated by Sadducees, not Pharisees. Yes, Jesus argued with and denounced the Pharisees a lot, in the Gospel records, but they were not the people who got him killed. Sadducean Judaism did not believe in angels, demons, or an afterlife. It controlled the temple and the higher levels of society, and was centered in Jerusalem. Pharisaic Judaism did believe in spirits and resurrection and all that stuff that is now the standard furniture of western monotheism. It was also more populist and held sway in the towns and countryside. To most of casual onlookers of his day, Jesus would have looked like a quirky variant of a Pharisee, with funny liberal ideas about the Law and, obviously, Messianic claims. The early Jewish Christians would have looked a lot like Pharisees, too, to outside observers. Sadducean Judaism died with the sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD; Pharisaic Judaism became the ancestor of modern, rabbinic Judaism. Jesus may (or may not) have had just as many quarrels with the Sadducees -- there's one example in the Gospels, and it was *their* Temple marketplace he trashed -- but these aren't recorded in the Gospels because, by the time the Gospels were written, the Sadducees were out of power and going extinct. They were no longer an issue. Early Christians and Pharisaic/Rabbinic Jews, though, were competing for followers. More than you wanted to know, right? Perry Lloyd wrote: > Seriously, though, I believe it comes from a combination of foul > language and interpretations of religious themes that could cause > the book to be burned in public by the freaky American Religious > Right. You don't have to be in the Religious Right to be put off by an irreverent portrayal of your central religious figure. If IN was a consistent mockery of God and Christ, as I gather INS/MV is, I would not have bought any of the books, and I doubt I'm unique. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:39:03 -0600 (CST) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2088 Quoting "Charles Phipps" > Subject: IN> Adventure seed- Lucifer's really bad day > Daniel himself is not exactly happy having the Prince of Darkness in > his > house either as he REALLY wants to keep his soul, keep his friends, > and > frankly not have his bedroom keep opening up to something out of the > Hellraiser flicks. It's not like he's not tempted by promises of > having > Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Elizabeth Hurley and Sarah Michelle > Gellar > (he's got odd tastes okay) as his love slaves along with being the next > Bill > Gates but the whole eternal damnation thing is a real turn off. > Frankly > Lucifer is getting desperate enough to prepare offering the man a > princeship > and Beleth (his twisted revenge on Daniel) and Lilith (ditto) as well. So, how long do you think it take for Lucifer to become so frustrated by this turn of events that he would offer up Prize Numero Uno itself just to be free of confinement, namely the Lordship of Hell and all the powers which come with it, including Wordbinding and Interventions? Daniel might actually take him up on the offer in an attempt to do good with the power. For an adventure seed, Lucifer could even let him test drive the powers for a day, free of charge, just to whet his appetite. > The Archangels, Princes, and average demon in Hell who finds out is > going to > be VERY divided. Imagine how they'd feel when a normal human teen appears before them announcing a few policy changes for Hell concerning humanity and The War. :-) Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:49:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New ethereal (was: re: To Alter a Nation) Interesting idea. So are there similar Ethereal Presidents and Prime Ministers in many other nations? How about Ethereal Monarchs? Is there a dispossessed and fading Ethereal King of Scotland? Italy? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:56:36 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN -- a few quotes Thank you, Genevieve. I really *like* the Roswell Team, though I wonder if there's enough grass in Nevada to do much drawing in. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 11:00:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine William J. Keith wrote: > Heh. Curious question; does she still have a pair of feathered > angelic wings? What about a Cherub whose main form is "eagle?" In Revelation, there's exactly that -- an eagle-shaped angel, arguably a cherub, attending the throne of God. It's distinguished from a regular eagle by having six wings -- and by being "full of eyes, around and about." (I visualize this as a cloud of disembodied eyes -- not eyeballs -- peering out of the air.) As to a cherubic beetle -- I'd let it open its wing-cases to reveal, say, six pairs of beetle wings. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:06:17 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation From: "Jo Hart" > > Lemmy??? > > Now that's a novel mental image ;) > > jo > (He's the lead singer for Motorhead) And we haven't heard what that band is up to for awhile, now have we? Hmmmm..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 16:07:23 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) At 23:23 28/02/2001 -0500, Charles Phipps wrote: >Note that I have never read IN/MS but I imagine this is how the In Nomine >Superior of Jesus would be like as a minister and a In fan. > >Jesus >Archangel of God >Relations > >As one might guess no one is directly opposing Jesus in Heaven among the >Archangel's since his arrival as the majority of Heaven's superiors view his >arrival as the will of the Lord and accept him as a brother and a giver of >advice. Yves and he are especially close and despite the fact that jesus is >solidly in the Peace Camp he and Michael get along very well as the >Archangel of God has told Michael his limits and the Archangel of War has >adjusted his battle strategies accordingly. Laurence is fairing >unfortunately less effectively as he is having a bit of a crisis trying to >deal with the fact he is a warrior angel in what is quite the reminder his >religeon is one that desires death before bloodshed. It is little to >Khalid's crisis however as Christianity has been quite concusively proven >right and while that makes Muhammed no less of a prophet it is still a slap >in the face. I would say that Khalid would either suspect him of either being an imposter (which would be a difficult stunt to pull off in Heaven) or the real Son of God. If he is an imposter, surely the Seraph Archangels would have discovered this already and exposed him (as they cannot lie). If he is for real, then Khalid, as the Archangel of Faith, would to change his mind. After all, faith does not necessarily deny proof, and if proof exists, you must accept it. >Hostile: No One (Khalid is Hostile though he does not mean to be) This is more of a grey area; Khalid will only be hostile if he thinks that Jesus is an imposter. Great write. Pak ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 16:11:57 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation >From: "Prodigal" > > (He's the lead singer for Motorhead) > >And we haven't heard what that band is up to for awhile, now have we? >Hmmmm..... > It's probably a secret! Now, this gives me an idea for a very daft IN variant (IN Glam Rock), in which all the Superiors decide that armaggeddon is imminent in the early 1970s, and they must start recruiting for their own private armies! And the best way to do this? Get an avatar out on Earth in a position where humans will be able to recognise the Superior's inhuman charisma and the brilliant righteousness of his message ... ie. start a rock band. Novalis as Jerry Garcia, anyone? jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:46:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Novalis and Blandine At 9:10 PM -0500 2/28/01, William J. Keith wrote: >>I tend to picture Novalis as... a giant ladybug. (It's a predator!) > >But only against bugs that harm plants. ;^) > >Heh. Curious question; does she still have a pair of feathered angelic >wings? What about a Cherub whose main form is "eagle?" I would make ladybug Novalis have wings that were at once insectile and feathered under the carapace. (It's Heaven, you can make things look two or more different ways at once and no one bats an eye! O:> ) A Cherub-eagle... Hm. Maybe with wings that have a sort of "doubled" effect, like a translucent image just half an instant behind the solid one. (Or you could give 2 pair wings -- nothing wrong with multiple wings on an angel...) That's all my personal prefs, of course. I doubt that such things are likely to become canon. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:27:10 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) From: "Earl Wajenberg" > > More than you wanted to know, right? More than *they* wanted to know, perhaps, but it was exactly what I needed to start work on the religions chapter of Moe's "Tattered Symphony" net.book - thank you! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:32:35 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation From: "Jo Hart" > > Now, this gives me an idea for a very daft IN variant (IN Glam Rock), in > which all the Superiors decide that armaggeddon is imminent in the early > 1970s, and they must start recruiting for their own private armies! And the > best way to do this? Get an avatar out on Earth in a position where humans > will be able to recognise the Superior's inhuman charisma and the brilliant > righteousness of his message ... ie. start a rock band. Vapula was obviously the one who formed Spinal Tap (since the amps go to eleven, after all.) Although he regrets the time he allowed Belial to sit in, since the smell of combusting drummer still hasn't washed out of all his stage outfits... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:40:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation At 4:11 PM -0500 3/1/01, Jo Hart wrote: > >Now, this gives me an idea for a very daft IN variant (IN Glam >Rock), in which all the Superiors decide that armaggeddon is >imminent in the early 1970s, and they must start recruiting for >their own private armies! And the best way to do this? Get an avatar >out on Earth in a position where humans will be able to recognise >the Superior's inhuman charisma and the brilliant righteousness of >his message ... ie. start a rock band. > >Novalis as Jerry Garcia, anyone? Michael *is* Adam Ant! Baal as the head of the Romantics... Eli's mission on Earth as revealed when he appears for a sold out tour as Ziggy Stardust... Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls... give it up for the Archangel Michael "Freddy" Mercury!!!!! - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:45:28 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: In Glamine (WAS: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation) From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > Michael *is* Adam Ant! Baal as the head of the Romantics... Eli's > mission on Earth as revealed when he appears for a sold out tour as > Ziggy Stardust... Nah, that was Marc. He's the Man Who Sold The World, after all... ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:50:34 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: In Glamine (WAS: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation) At 10:45 AM -0600 3/1/01, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Whistling in the Dark" >> >> Michael *is* Adam Ant! Baal as the head of the Romantics... Eli's >> mission on Earth as revealed when he appears for a sold out tour as >> Ziggy Stardust... > >Nah, that was Marc. > >He's the Man Who Sold The World, after all... ;;;) So true. Hm -- and I used Michael twice. Well, make Baal Adam Ant instead. Hm... Fleurity as Iggy Pop? How much into the New Wave are we going with this? I can almost see Blandine as Blondie, and something about Annie Lennox's intensity *screams* Gabriel to me.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 18:02:21 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War >>From: "Janet Anderson" >> >>So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? > > >Oh, I think Heaven per se tends to be old-fashioned, but I'm sure Janus was >betting on the Roundheads. > > >jo *LOL followed by raspberry* Janet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 12:20:47 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War >From: "Jo Hart" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War >Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:21:22 > > > > >>From: "Janet Anderson" >> >>So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? > > >Oh, I think Heaven per se tends to be old-fashioned, but I'm sure Janus was >betting on the Roundheads. > I think she was talking about the American one. Brad _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:24:56 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Jesus, AA of God Hey dude I like your translation. It's even better than mine by far. The Mary magdelen thing is the most bizzare part of the Bible as well in crazy interpretations too oddly enough for a single encounter by jesus. I love Yves squinting too :-) - -Charlemagne. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:28:05 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Choir Angels: Wacae Scratch all the other Wacae despite being so short is my FAVORITE choir angel. He's a slap in the face of everyone sympathetic to the Grigori and I only wish they had murdered him instead of his disbanding. I wonder if no new Grigori can be created without their choir angel and that's why their numbers are so depleted. Good show Alex. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:24:31 -0000 From: "David Edelstein" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War >>>So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? >> >> >>Oh, I think Heaven per se tends to be old-fashioned, but I'm sure Janus was>>betting on the Roundheads. >> >I think she was talking about the American one. Really? Wow. I'm sure Jo was as clueless as I to that reference. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 12:43:06 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> The Choir Angels: Wacae >From: "Charles Phipps" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> The Choir Angels: Wacae >Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:28:05 -0500 > >Scratch all the other Wacae despite being so short is my FAVORITE choir >angel. > >He's a slap in the face of everyone sympathetic to the Grigori and I only >wish they had murdered him instead of his disbanding. > Well, In a way, they did kill him. The Chior he was created to look out after rejecting his advice. Regecting Heaven, etc,etc. To much for the poor guy to bear so he went *POOF*. They drove him to it. Is it worse to kill a man with a club or a knife? Brad _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:54:14 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Leitmotiv: Enemies of the State Hi. I didn't have much to do, so I decided to try my hand at a character study focused on one of my favorite Demon Princes, Asmodeus. I hope you enjoy it. Leitmotiv: Enemies of the State A character study of the Prince of the Game It was a hot, dry and sufficating day in the Principality of Hades. But then every day in Hades was Hot, Dry and Sufficating. This was Hell, after all. To be more specific, Hades was the outer frontier of Hell, an impossibly large sprawl of a city, which served to seperate All of Hell from the rest of Creation. Like an Air-lock of corridors, alleys and ante-chambers, Hades kept anyone from entering Hell without being noticed. ...Or from leaving Hell unauthorized. Asmodeus, Prince of the Game, saw to that. It could be argued that Asmodeus, dispite having an apparantly harmless word, was one of the most powerful Princes in Hell, after the likes of Kronos and Lillith, as he was the one intrusted by Lucifer to keeping Order in Hell. True, Evil and Sin were a demon's bread and butter, but discipline had to be maintained. Lucifer had established rules for how things were to be done in Hell, and Asmodeus was the one who would write down and enforce those rules. Asmodeus thought about all of this as he looked out the balcony of his Chess-king shaped tower, looking at the entrance gate of Hell, where the Angels of Final Judgement stood to watch the throngs of the damned lead in chains, almost as silent reminders of everything Asmodeus gave up when he betrayed Dominic and joined Lucifer's Rebellion. He frowned and growled, baring the teeth of his rottweiler-shaped face as he turned away from the sight, his long red cape twirling around as he walked back into the office and focused his attention to the Impudite currently sitting on an uncomfortable chair under a spotlight, the only illuminated point in the darkened room. The Charmer squirmed a bit under the Prince's firey gaze, but a pair of arms grasped his shoulders and forced him back into the chair, reminding him of the Djinn of the Game currently standing behind him, just looking for an excuse to hurt him. The Impudite could only gulp as the large anthropomorphic canine padded slowly to him, looking down at him, before he spoke: "Tell me, Habor... How does someone insure his power over another?" The Taker blinked a few times. "E-excuse me?" "I said," the prince asked again, a bit frustrated, "How does someone insure his power over another?" He waited for a few more seconds, then turned back and paced around. "Power, my dear Impudite, comes from suffering. By making someone suffer, you insure yourself that you have power over them. Obediance is never enough. Inflicting pain and humilation upon another is the only true way of controlling them, or else nothing is certain." The Impudite began to shiver and sweat as the Prince said those words, fearing for his life. The prince then turned around, arms behind his back, and looked at him again. "You must know, Habor, I seldom involve myself directly with interrogations. But sometimes, matters of serious concern come up where I'm forced to directly involve myself with a case. Most notably on a case like this one, where your Prince, Valefor, comes under investigation." Habor simply cringed and leaned back into his chair, wishing he could simply fade into the human skin leather streched across the seat. The Prince of the Game simply stared into his eyes, seemingly trying to bore into his head with his firey red gaze, for the next few minutes, before asking, "Where is your Prince, Habor?" Had he been on a human, Habor had no doubt that he would've lost control of his bowel movements then and there. As it was, he simply felt himself frozen in place, held down by Asmodeus' gaze, until he closed his eyes and cringed, stammering, "I-I-I d-don't know!" Asmodeus simply closed his eyes and sighed. "Why do they always want to break the rules..?" He stepped away from the light and called out to the darkness: "Gaal, come forth!" A gaunt, black-robed Habbalite stepped into view, carrying a large back doctor's bag, which he set down on a table next to Habor's chair. Before the Taker could arise, however, the Djinn held his arms down as bracers emerged from the seat and clamped down on his arms, legs and torso, freezing him in place! As Habor squirmed in his seat, Gaal opened his bag and took out various tools, resembling a cross between cutlery, surgical tools and dental hygene equipement. Asmodeus turned back to Habor to explain: "Gaal, you see here, is one of my numerous agents normally stationned amongst Vapula's organisation. While there, he's discovered and studied more, shall we say, "scientific" ways of questionning individuals. While studying Hindu concepts of Shakras and Acupuncture points, he's become something of an expert in the art of inflicting pain. He'll make you discover new definitions for agony, and make them last for eternity..." The Djinn Prince then stood there, silently staring into the now crying Impudite's eyes, who was almost breaking down now. "I SWEAR, I DON'T KNOW WHERE PRINCE VALEFOR IS!! HE NEVER TELLS US WHERE HE GOES WHEN HE DISAPPEARS!! PLEASE, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING..." Asmodeus just looked into the panicking Impudite, and frowned, then turned to the two nearly identical Lillims standing behind him, both holding a pens and notepads. "Succoth, Benoth. Please note that the suspect refused to cooperate." The two twin Daughters nodded and answered in unison, "Yes, My Prince." then turned to write down the Prince's note, while Habor could only stare in disbelief. "But I'm telling you, I don't know where Valefor is... None of us Thieves know..." The Taker's words fell to deaf ears, however, as Asmodeus turned to Gaal, ignoring the now crying Impudite... "Take your time with this one. He's currently on his third day with us. By this time tomorrow, the Word Dissonance will already be breaking his soul, while you work on his mind and body. He should be much more cooperative by then." "Yes, My Prince. Of course, I will require someone to record this Interrogation, as stated in Article 3, sub-section VI of the procedure manual." "Of course. Succoth, stay here and record the events of the interrogation as they happen. Note down everything, then send me a copy when it's done, and another for the Archives." "Yes, My Prince." Asmodeus then left the room, Benoth following him, as the screams of the Impudite were muffled by the closing iron doors of the interrogation chamber, and marched through the long winding corridors to his office, before the Lillim dared to ask: "My Prince, how long do you think the Impudite will last before he tells us where Valefor is?" "Hmm? Oh, him. That Impudite has no idea where his Prince is, it's plainly obvious." The Lillim couldn't help but blink at that statement. "Wha, what? But... but why Interrogate him, then?" Asmodeus stopped in his tracks and turned around to stare at the Lillim, his eyes burning with disapproval. "We'll Interrogate him because under the pain of torture, he is more likely to confess to other rule violations, because it'll remind him of why even the demons of Theft must follow the rules of Hell and The Game, and most importantly, because it's procedure to do so! You're not questionning Procedure, are you?" "No, my Master, no... Forgive my ignorance, Dread Lord, I meant no disrespect..." The Prince of the Game simply glared at her, growling softly before turning away to continue through the door to his office. "Very well. Benoth, you may return to your regular duties." "Yes, Dread Lord." The Lillim simply returned to one of the two desks flanking the large door to Asmodeus' office, and proceded to type up her written report. As for Asmodeus, the Dread Prince simply stared out of his office window, staring at the maze-like dungeon of Stygia, home to his two most hated headaches, Malphas, Prince of Factions, and Valefor, Prince of Theft. And of the two, The Prince of the Game preferred that Shedite Malphas as a headache over the Calabite Valefor, for various reasons, most importantly of all the bizarre coincidences somehow connecting The Rogue Prince with his Archangelical counter-part Janus, his "rival". "I know you're hiding something, Valefor... I don't know how you pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, but you can't fool The Game... I will unmask you, I promise this. And once I do, I will - -Crush- you..." Asmodeus simply stared at Stygia, which seemed to mock him as it stood, and turned to sit back to his desk, picking up the phone and dialing. "Hello, Records? Have someone send me Benoth's psychological profile. Thank you." After hanging up, he opened his intercom. "Benoth?" "Yes, My Prince?" "An Imp will come from Records soon. Once he arrives, send him in immediatly." "As you command, My Prince." As the intercom sounded off, Asmodeus leaned back into his soft leather chair, to brood... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:15:38 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War On 1 Mar 01, at 14:39, Janet Anderson wrote: > Hm. Well, while we're on the subject of celestial interest in politics ... > Awhile back, the subject of celestial involvement in World War II came up, > not for the first time. I, being a rather Bright, High-Contrast person in > IN terms, think that if Heaven couldn't tell which side they should be on > in WW II, they were, as Hell keeps saying, no better than the demons. But > clearly some people feel differently. > > So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? I don't know > whether this has come up before, but I envision the celestial line-up as > follows: > > HEAVEN > Blandine: North I'll disagree and say South, using your criterion of which side benefits the word of the AA most. The Southern leaders were dreaming pretty hard... > David: Neutral > Dominic: North > Eli: Neutral > Gabriel: North Why North? > Janus: Neutral I'd say North, as Janus' people were probably involved with the Underground Railroad before the war. > Jean: Neutral > Jordi: Neutral > Laurence: Neutral > Marc: Neutral the North was more about Trade than the South. I think he'd love the North. > Michael: Neutral; much heroism on both sides and LOTS of Tethers > Novalis: Neutral and unhappy about the whole thing > Yves: Neutral > > HELL > Andrealphus: South > Asmodeus: Neutral > Baal: Neutral > Beleth: South Hrm; the reputation of the Southern soldiers would tend to insinuate they had LESS fear. > Belial: Neutral; Tether somewhere near Atlanta > Haagenti: Neutral > Kobal: Neutral > Kronos: Neutral > Lilith: Publicly neutral; privately helping the North > Malphas: Neutral; having a wonderful time He was no doubt busy supporting the Copperheads in the North and the radical opposition to Jefferson Davis in the South, especially those encouraging their states to secede from the Confederacy. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:37:43 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War > > HEAVEN > > Blandine: North > > I'll disagree and say South, using your criterion of which side benefits > the word of the AA most. The Southern leaders were dreaming pretty > hard... The slaves were dreaming pretty hard, too. > > David: Neutral Questionable, considering David's views on slavery. > > Gabriel: North > > Why North? Again, slavery. Punishin' the cruel and all that. > > Janus: Neutral > > I'd say North, as Janus' people were probably involved with the > Underground Railroad before the war. Agreed. > > Marc: Neutral > > the North was more about Trade than the South. I think he'd love the North. Agreed. > > Novalis: Neutral and unhappy about the whole thing > > Yves: Neutral Questionable, considering Novalis' and Yves' views on slavery. The Archangels probably have vivid memories of Israel's enslavement by Egypt, if it actually occured in the In Nomine universe. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:04:20 -0800 (PST) From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War > On 1 Mar 01, at 14:39, Janet Anderson wrote: > > So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? I don't know > > whether this has come up before, but I envision the celestial line-up as > > follows: > > > > HEAVEN > > Jean: Neutral > > Jordi: Neutral > > Laurence: Neutral > > Marc: Neutral > > the North was more about Trade than the South. I think he'd love the North. Rather, the North had the industrial development. The South had _lots_ of trade - 'King Cotton', remember - but it was trade based on the plantation economy and slavery. I'd still put Marc with the North, but for that reason. Trade in the south probably wasn't doing lots to benefit the _angelic_ Word of Trade... > > HELL > > Andrealphus: South > > Asmodeus: Neutral > > Baal: Neutral > > Beleth: South > > Hrm; the reputation of the Southern soldiers would tend to insinuate they > had LESS fear. But a Southern victory would lead to a much darker future. And there's that whole slavery thing... > > Belial: Neutral; Tether somewhere near Atlanta > > Haagenti: Neutral > > Kobal: Neutral > > Kronos: Neutral I'd see Kronos as leaning towards the South. There's plenty of opportunity to guide the US towards a darker Fate in the Civil War, and the easiest path is to ensure Southern victory. There are other choices, of course, but that's the biggie. - --JT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:13:36 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War From: "Janet Anderson" > > So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? I don't know whether > this has come up before, but I envision the celestial line-up as follows: > > HEAVEN > Blandine: North I see her as being generally in favor of the North, but recognising that the Dreams of those serving on the other side also supported her Word. > David: Neutral While I can agree that he wouldn't choose sides in this, I can see him guardedly approving the War, insofar as he would hope that it would ultimately serve to strengthen both sides through adversity. > Dominic: North I would argue for him remaining Neutral, and arguing that the Truth of the South's cause would be proved by their victory or defeat in their attempt to separate from the North. > Eli: Neutral He'd be too busy being angry at the War having happened at all to take sides, true... > Laurence: Neutral He'd probably be mad at both sides for claiming God was on their side. > Marc: Neutral He probably wouldn't be very fond of either side. While slavery is the ultimate in unfair bargains, The fact that the Northern textile industry financed the creation and maintenance of plantations in the South couldn't have sat well with the AA of Trade. > Novalis: Neutral and unhappy about the whole thing Definitely alongside Marc in the "A plague upon both your houses" camp. > HELL > Baal: Neutral I could see him supporting the South, under the idea that their rebellion against the North paralleled the original Rebellion. > Belial: Neutral; Tether somewhere near Atlanta During Sherman's March, however, he would definitely support the North. > Malphas: Neutral; having a wonderful time I think Malphas would be supporting both sides, because it would further his Word much more than neutrality would. > Saminga: Neutral; having a wonderful time; Tether in Andersonville I'd argue that he supported both sides, for the same reason that Malphas did. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:16:23 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War From: "John Walter Biles" > > > > HELL > > Beleth: South > > Hrm; the reputation of the Southern soldiers would tend to insinuate they > had LESS fear. The Rebel Yell caused lots of fear among the Union soldiers, though. Hmmmm, must work up game stats and make this one of her Attunements... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:29:46 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War If you want a more morally ambiguous war, look at World War I. Neither side was particularly right or wrong, unless you define "aggressor" as "wrong." It's also interesting in that Archangels and Demon Princes seldom try to blatantly force big wars, but who would've thought that the greatest conflict in human history (at the time) would be sparked by the death of one relatively unexceptional nobleman? Sounds like a celestial plot to me. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 20:35:31 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN -- a few quotes - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 01 March 2001 15:57 Subject: Re: IN> Re: INS/MV vs IN -- a few quotes >Thank you, Genevieve. I really *like* the Roswell Team, though >I wonder if there's enough grass in Nevada to do much drawing in. >Earl It's all part of a master project by Morax (Prince of Artistic Gifts) and Kobal (same guy) to confuse, damage, destroy, and otherwise do bad things to human minds, by inserting fake antiquities -- past and present. Given a convenient ageing power for use on items, they've got teams doing stuff like inserting golden crucifixes in Egyptian pyramids, sexual toys and torture implements marked with crosses and with the names of various Archangels in Middle Age treasure troves and Papal treasuries, and so on . . . Though, to be frank, I love the idea of faking a Russian submarine next to the wreck of the Titanic, and putting a Leonardo diCaprio lookalike corpse down there too. Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:05:39 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." > > The South had _lots_ of > trade - 'King Cotton', remember - but it was trade based on the plantation > economy and slavery. I'd still put Marc with the North, but for that reason. That's exactly why he wouldn't support the North, either, since the Northern textile industry was based for the most part (IIRC) on Southern cotton. > Trade in the south probably wasn't doing lots to benefit the _angelic_ Word > of Trade... Neither side had a very good track record vis-a-vis angelic Trade, though. When was _The Jungle_ published? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 16:09:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Bodywork Genevieve Cogman wrote: > Though, to be frank, I love the idea of faking a Russian submarine > next to the wreck of the Titanic, and putting a Leonardo diCaprio > lookalike corpse down there too. Speaking of which: Since Superiors can create vessels, can they create corpses as needed, if it doesn't happen to be convenient to off an actual human? I'd think so, given the existence of body bags and such in the game. I'd think it would be like making a vessel and leaving off the last step of attaching it to the celestial. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:16:49 -0800 (PST) From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War > From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." > > The South had _lots_ of > > trade - 'King Cotton', remember - but it was trade based on the plantation > > economy and slavery. I'd still put Marc with the North, but for that > reason. > > That's exactly why he wouldn't support the North, either, since the Northern > textile industry was based for the most part (IIRC) on Southern cotton. I can't see an Archangel as being quite so petulant. Slavery is pretty much the opposite of everything the Word of Trade stands for, victory of the north (especially after the Emancipation Proclamation) would gut one of the last major slave economies in the western world, ergo he would side with the North. He might be a bit lukewarm about it, but the problems in the Northern economy with regards to angelic Trade could be fixed from within the system, whereas the Southern slave economy could only be fixed by whacking the South repeatedly with the "No, dang it!" stick. - --JT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:23:30 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." > > > > That's exactly why he wouldn't support the North, either, since the Northern > > textile industry was based for the most part (IIRC) on Southern cotton. > > I can't see an Archangel as being quite so petulant. Slavery is pretty much > the opposite of everything the Word of Trade stands for, And more than one Norther textile company financed the creation of plantations in the South to produce cotton, which investment in slavery could under no circumstances gain Marc's support. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2089 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.