From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Mar 3 00:20:39 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30771 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:20:39 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA08347 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:24:07 -0600 Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:24:07 -0600 Message-Id: <200103030624.AAA08347@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2093 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, March 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2093 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: Chibi! Re: IN> Chibi-chibi IN> Re: In Glamine Re: In Glamine (WAS: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation) Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) Re: IN> Re: In Glamine Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) Re: IN> Re: In Glamine Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> Jesus Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) IN> March 3, 2001 (ML) IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 3: Adad (first part) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:37:48 -0500 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Chibi! > Well, darn! > I like them! > I have those two now, plus the Dominic with the hammer one. > I was hoping to complete the set! :) I'm really glad you like them, and if you want to see more you might be able to getthem by emailing the hell outta this guy David Vargas eykotey@hotmail.com If enough people yell at him I'm sure he'll draw more. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:16:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Chibi-chibi At 3:58 PM -0500 3/2/01, Daniel Gallagher wrote: >Well, since I've moved away it looks like this is all the Chibi (super >deformed) Archangels/ Princes that you'll get out of my buddy Awwww. But still! HEE! >PS- Beth, I'm sorry but he couldn't do Baal. I watched him struggle with it >for hours Drat. Oh, well. Someone else might get inspired... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:23:20 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: IN> Re: In Glamine Y'all do realize that this is the unholy offspring of two threads that the Admin has banned - casting In Nomine and In Nomine music? :) Nevertheless... I'm thinking that Valefor makes a better Adam Ant than Michael does, with all that "Stand And Deliver"/dandy-highwayman flash. Dominic takes on the vessel of Marc Bolan - with all that hair and the top hat, you hardly see *his* face either. And if we're taking it as far as the '80s, Jean makes a dandy Thomas Dolby, doesn't he? "All my tubes and wires and careful notes and antiquated notions..." Kronos makes a brief appearance as Ian Curtis, long enough to mope his way into history... * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:25:30 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: In Glamine (WAS: Re: IN>To Alter a Nation) >Hm... Fleurity as Iggy Pop? How much into the New Wave are we going >with this? I can almost see Blandine as Blondie... "I'll have a cup of tea - and tell you of my dreaming...dreaming is free." >and something about Annie Lennox's intensity *screams* Gabriel to me.... "Oh, the missionary man, he got God on his side..." just playing around, * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:53:27 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) At 14:26 02/03/2001 -0500, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 7:26 PM -0500 3/1/01, Shadow wrote: >> >>ObIN: One world gov't's and Superiors? Which Superiors would support a one >>world gov't or even International Bodies like the UN? Anyone? > >Angels: David. Make it a Catholic government and you get Laurence and >Dominic too. The U.N. would be supported by Marc, a single world >government less so. > >Demons: Asmodeus. Kronos (one nation's Fate is simpler than dozens). >Others, but I'm in the middle of other stuff and can't think too long on it. I'm not sure I see any reason why Heaven as a whole would have much of a stance on the concept of a single world government. Agreed, theocracies would be supported by those superiors partial to the ruling religion, but otherwise, it would not make any difference. Of course, David is the exception. Hell, on the other hand, would have more of an issue. Asmodeus would, I think, be against it; the Game is more complex and more partial to manipulation of the rules if there are multiple international players. Similarly, it would be anathema to Malphas, as he loses a level of factions. Lilith would be another against it. A social setup that leads to a world government is likely to emphasize conformity to the system, rather than individual freedoms, or face fractionalising into a number of special interest groups. Kronos would be more ambivalent. It would be _more_ difficult to drag such a large and diverse nation to its fate than it would to drag dozens of smaller nations. On the other hand, it would be so much more spectacular a triumph were it to succeed. Lots of long-term sleeper agents, even more than are currently in place. Furfur and Belial would relish the chance to do some "good", by stirring up terrorism and random violence. The more violence people encounter, or _perceive_ exists, the more people will clamour for security. People will tolerate losing some of their freedom in exchange for security. The more security desired, the more freedom will be taken from them. The less freedom people have, the more atrocities can and will be carried out, and the more people achieve their fate. Beleth would be neutral, unless it looks as if it will be a totalitarian state (always good for nightmares). Similarly, Baal wouldn't care unless it means that there is a cadre of storm troopers for him to manipulate. All the other Princes would probably be neutral. Back to the nature of the world government. If it was a democracy, it would probably operate on an amalgam of the current models of democracy, with the freedom to access public information, freedom to demonstrate, freedom to disagree, to think and act differently. Little would change; for all intents and purposes, we could treat this as the United States, writ large. A divine theocracy, however, would change the nature of The War as it is fought on the corporeal plane; for the first time ever, it would be possible to change the way people think and act by affecting _one_ institution only. No checks and balances. No democracy to remove your agents, or your opponents. The Judiciary could only interpret laws handed down from up high; it could not be used to remove those in power without the express instruction from the theocrat. Which isn't to say that it's necessarily results in a dark world without freedoms. It is, however, effectively a dictatorship, and as such, relies on the benign intent of the dictator to maintain these freedoms, and dictators do not live forever. Pak ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:55:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Glamine At 6:23 PM -0500 3/2/01, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >Y'all do realize that this is the unholy offspring of two threads that the >Admin has banned - casting In Nomine and In Nomine music? :) I've been thinking that myself -- but it hasn't turned into an undead thread yet, so I haven't been pressing the point. However, if it turns long and repetitive ("Michael should be Michael Jackson!" "No way, that's Nybbas!" "Nah, he's Andre!")... Well, everyone'd best watch themselves over the weekend... O:> - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:50:21 -0800 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) > I would say that Khalid would either suspect him of either being an > imposter (which would be a difficult stunt to pull off in Heaven) or the > real Son of God. If he is an imposter, surely the Seraph Archangels would > have discovered this already and exposed him (as they cannot lie). If he is > for real, then Khalid, as the Archangel of Faith, would to change his mind. > After all, faith does not necessarily deny proof, and if proof exists, you > must accept it. > > >Hostile: No One (Khalid is Hostile though he does not mean to be) > > This is more of a grey area; Khalid will only be hostile if he thinks that > Jesus is an imposter. Just FYI, iirc, there's not much connection between Jesus, the AA who went down to earth and single-handedly changed Judaism and Jesus the Christ, who waas born about seven years before that. It's just that, through serendipity, there was another Jesus, a historical figure, upon whom everything could be attributed. So, according to INSMV, the historical jesus was just some guy. Didn't die for anyone's sins or anything, but the AA Jesus *did* and he also preached THE TRUTH, making Christianity *the correct* religion for the world. Later, Gabriel and some other buddies started Islam because they had a different view of things, I don't have the book with me to provide details. So, this makes the game *very* christian-centric. Oh, and AA Jesuss is known to be God's favorite AA, and that Jesus the AA is a bit arrogant and somewhat spoiled. heh. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:14:46 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Glamine At 6:23 PM -0500 3/2/01, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >Y'all do realize that this is the unholy offspring of two threads that the >Admin has banned - casting In Nomine and In Nomine music? :) Even better -- this is Casting In Nomine/In Nomine music *backwards.* Not "who would make a good Michael, but who would make a good Freddy Mercury. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:57:35 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War On 2 Mar 01, at 9:59, Maurice Lane wrote: > Anyone from the British Isles who'd like to do a > fuller examination of this topic, please don't let > _me_ stop you. It'd be fun to read. :) > I'm not from the British Isles, but I do have an M.A in British History, and working on a Ph.D, and this IS my period, so... Heaven: Blandine: While likely to be displeased by the Puritan closing of theatres, the mid-seventeenth century theatres really weren't much of a loss. Especially in comparison to the fervent dreams of Puritans who wanted to remake England as a truly Christian nation. The Royalists, while some were romantic young bucks, most were older and more pragmatic and distrusted religious enthusiasm. So Blandine goes Roundhead. David: Takes the attitude that Parliament is the agressor here, with its summary execution of royal servants who had just been doing their jobs and now become blood sacrifices. David goes mildly Royalist, although he is too busy with the 30 years' war in Germany to pay this one much mind. Some of his servitors later help organize the Clubmen, who try to force both sides to leave them alone. Dominic: Dominic supports Catholicism. Parliament's supporters are anti- Catholic. Easy choice there. He is favorable to the Royalists, though condemnatory of various abuses by both sides. The execution of Charles angers him. Eli: Neither side really endorses his word, and he has other things to do, though he works for peace between the two. Gabriel: Originally neutral, as both sides contain the cruel; later turns against Cromwell and his men during the conquest of Ireland. Janus: He approves of the Roundheads, bringing change, especially during the relatively peaceful workings of the Long Parliament before outright war. Jean: Has other things on his mind. Jordi: Hopes the stupid humans are too busy killing each other to conduct those damn fox hunts. Laurence: Tends to support the Royalists, and works to encourage the Irish Catholics and Scottish Catholic Highlanders to support the Stuarts. Marc: The trading regions support Parliament, and Marc does too. Michael: This war is not God's struggle. He works to keep either side from falling under demonic sway. Novalis: Like any war, she hates this. And Oliver Cromwell, after his Irish wars, is very high on her list of people she'd smite if she was the smiting type. Yves: Sees the hand of Fate reaching out to swallow both sides, and like Michael struggles to help those of both sides reach their Destiny. Hell: Andrealphus: Goes Royalist because the Puritans among the Parliamentarians are, well, puritanical. But not very Royalist, because King Charles can match them for being strait-laced. Asmodeus: Spends about 20 years laughing maniacally as encourages two potential forces for good to tear each other apart, finally resulting in exhaustion and the beginning of a decline of religious fervor. Baal: Mostly focused on other issues, since neither side is straightforwardly for Hell. Beleth: Both sides produce such yummy nightmares. Belial: Disappointed that Guy Fawkes didn't blow up Parliament decades earlier, he's off sulking. Haagenti: Not a very great time for gluttony; he's busy in the royal court of France... Kobal: Nothing makes him laugh like two sides both proclaiming they're doing God's will going to war with each other. Kronos: Supporting both sides, because if they properly annhilate each other, he can more easily bring England to its Fate... Malphas: Sometimes the mortals just do his work for him, don't they... Supports all the lunatic fringe groups which begin to arise...Ranters, Diggers, Muggletonians, etc. Nybbas: Not yet a prince Saminga: Go, Cromwell, Go! Sack some more cities for me, won't you? Valefor: No real preferences. Vapula: Has other things on his mind. A few comments on the Fate and Destiny of certain individuals: Cromwell was a man who wanted to be guided by God. Whatever his deeds, he honestly believed himself to be doing God's will, and in many crises waited to try to observe the hand of Providence in making a decision, then tried to conform himself to that decision. Despite this tendency to let events drive him instead of vice versa, he somehow rose to the top of the heap anyway and became virtual king of England. But he failed to actually accomplish much with that authority once he had it, and within two years of his death, it all fell apart. Cromwell's Destiny was to create a new England of religious toleration where all Christians could co-exist, to found a new dynasty which would give England stability, and to create a form of government which could deal with the problems which brought down the old form of monarchical government. Cromwell's Fate was to slaughter his fellow Christians in the name of Parliament and God, creating permanent enmities among the peoples of the British Isles. I must regretfully conclude that by the standards of In Nomine, Cromwell ended up in Hell, as he met his Fate, but not his Destiny. (Your milage will of course vary for different values of Destiny and Fate for him. I'm pretty certain of what his Fate would be, but if he had some lesser Destiny, he might have ended up meeting both and reincarnating instead. What worse Fate Cromwell could have had than he did, I can't imagine.) King Charles wanted to be a good King. But only a genius could have solved his problems, and he was no genius. Despite his well-meaning, he frittered away all his advantages and managed to provoke a Civil War through his measures. But Charles managed in death, to become the sort of inspiring figure he rarely had been in life, and his throne passed on to his Son despite his loss of the war. He died with far more dignity than he lived, and his death brought peace to England if not to the whole British Isles. There are two major possibilities here. If his Destiny was to become a good king and rule justly and well, then we must conclude he only met his Fate, which was to bungle his rule and provoke a bloody Civil War which hurt the Christian faith in the long term. He therefore would be in Hell. Alternatively, if one argues the war was largely inevitable, and that his Fate was to win the war and wreak bloody vengeance on his enemies, but that his Destiny was to die to end the fighting within the country, then he would be in Heaven. I tend to suspect the former rather than this latter, however. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:23:24 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion I've been doing some research on Buddhism today, based on some stuff I've read. I had in mind of creating an Archangel of Zen (Former Habbalite, confronted Buddha, then found the path to enlightnment and redeemed.) But after checking out Buddha Wisdom ( http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/buddhawise.html ), I found out more about the cosmology of Buddhist philosophy, and I wondered how these elements could fit into In Nomine's more standard Judeo-Christian cosmology. I came up with some interesting ideas... In Buddhist philosophy, the various beings are, from highest to lowest: 1. Devas or gods. The Devas, beings closest to God, can be seen as Archangels. Brahma, the Supreme Deva: God, obviously. You don't get more Supreme then that. 2. Asuras or titans (or jealous gods, or demigods), Ethereal Spirits, I would assume. 3. Manusyas or humans. 4. Tiryaks or animals. These two remain themselves, in their respective positions. This might explain why Jordi has his problems with Humanity: They rate higher on the spiritual scale. 5. Pretas or hungry ghosts. One could argue that these would be Undead. 6. Narakas or demons (hell beings) These remain themselves. Some other alterations: Seraphims: In Buddhist philosophy, these beings are the Nagas, or Great Serpents (or dragons). Michael, first of the Nagas (which was interpreted as making them their King), once protected the Buddha from a storm. These beings are in tune with the one great truth, the Brahmin, and all know and teach the Noble Truths. Fallen, they become the Bal-Seraphs, or Dark Nagas, who lead mortals to abandon the Noble Truths and fall prey to Selfish Desires and Suffering. Ofanim: Instead of making the Wheels of Fire the core element of an Ofanite's Celestial Appearance, how about making the Heavenly appearance of an Ofanite... That of a monstrous humanoid, with horns, claws, fangs and odd-colored skins? The Wheels of Fire effect would come from a circular aura of firey energy they would create when in motion. They would serve Heaven as it's scouts, observers, skirmishers and messengers (the frightening appearance would explain why, everytime one of them would show up, their first words would be "Do Not be Afraid") When Fallen, Ofanim become Calabim, dark beasts whose souls become more frightening then their appearance. They focus their energy auras towards destruction, not motion. Malakim: Ascetic Warrior Angels, these harsh beings tend to live a monastic life-style when not fighting the Forces of Hell: spending days in solitary meditation, submitting themselves to harsh trials to test their resolution to the Way of Brahmin. With their Third Eyes, they can see a being's Honor or Dishonor, measuring the being's resolution to The Way. They revere those beings who suceed in following the path taught by Buddha, but have nothing but contempt to those creatures who fall prey to the four vices (Stealing, Lying, Sexual Misconduct and The Destruction of Life), who do the four things which lead to Evil (Desire, Anger, Ignorance and Fear), and who perform the six ways to dissapate your wealth (Drinking and drugs, Carousing late at night, Wasting away your time at shows, Gambling, Keeping bad company and Laziness). There's probably more that could be done with some more effort, but what do you think of those basic ideas? I know I'm using these concepts: Making the Ofanim something more anthropomorphic has been an ambition of mine, for one thing. I could definetly see Janus and Gabriel as beings reminiscent of Hindu Gods, like Indra or Kali. Especially Gabriel, with her job of punishing the cruel. If you want to put the Fear of God into the Cruel, you can do it better if you look like something God dragged out of Hell to punish them. And I rather like the idea of Malakim being devoted to perfecting themselves, rather then just measuring the honor of other beings. They can judge a being's honor and virtue, because they've tested their own honor to the limit and beyond. It would explain Uriel's obsession with Purity, David's devotion to strengthening himself and others, as well as Laurence's desire to find his own tests in faithful service to God, like a loyal samurai or other martial artist. Well, those are my basic ideas. Any comments? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:05:26 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Jesus On Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 04:08:44PM -0600, Santiago wrote: > Okay, here's my take on the whole religion thing in In Nomine > world. Some people might find this vaguely irreverent or offensive, > but not too much. The "Eli was Jesus" idea has been talked about here before, I think (long, long ago), but this is a really great writeup of it. I really enjoyed reading it. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:34:36 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War I know this thread has been dancing on the edge of being an Evil Thread (the only type of evil discussion NOT allowed on the list :)), but there are some interesting points from an IN position that might be worth exploring (besides, it's a recent enough conflict that it might come into play for a celestial's background in a game (they could certainly be around back then)). I will try to stick to IN discussion only with it at least... In general, I think the celestials took it as they did most wars; only a few really focused in on it because of the opportunities for their Word, and their opposites would respond in kind, but even those who supported one side or another had it as one of many "important issues" on their plate, not their all consuming obsession. "Supporting" a side in a war for a Superior might consist only of dropping a few non-Word bound Servitors in after all. >> So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? I don't know >> whether this has come up before, but I envision the celestial line-up as >> follows: >> >> HEAVEN >> Blandine: North > >I'll disagree and say South, using your criterion of which side benefits >the word of the AA most. The Southern leaders were dreaming pretty >hard... I figure neutral, with maybe some sympathy towards the North in principle but a dislike of all the things both sides were doing (I figure she is only slightly less pacifistic than Novalis in general given how many nightmares are spawned by wars). >> David: Neutral I say North for the reasons people have suggested about him being in favor of unity. Secession is more or less anethema to his Word. Still, he probably did have some sympathy for Stonewall Jackson of course... :) >> Dominic: North Agreed, again because secession would tend to violate his tendencies (one respects the law, not declare it no longer applies to you! ;)). >> Eli: Neutral >> Gabriel: North > >Why North? Gotta agree with the disagree and say neutral in her usual crazy way (she probably dropped by to occasionally vaporize a group or two on either side who pissed her off, but she might not have even noticed there WAS a war except in passing). >> Janus: Neutral > >I'd say North, as Janus' people were probably involved with the >Underground Railroad before the war. I imagine he was somewhat undecided on the cause in general, but had his favorites on both sides (probably loved a bunch of the calvary raider types). Probably did aid the Underground Railroad though (it is the perfect kind of "theft" for him). >> Jean: Neutral >> Jordi: Neutral >> Laurence: Neutral Maybe mildly South because of the code of honor, although he would reluctantly stay out of it because of the other issues. >> Marc: Neutral > >the North was more about Trade than the South. I think he'd love the North. Might have slight favor for the North, although I imagine in general his main involvement with the American Civil War was trying to shape things for the better after the war and fighting Mammon's war profiteers. >> Michael: Neutral; much heroism on both sides and LOTS of Tethers His main involvement besides Tether securing was probably jumping to either of the sides as needed to oppose Baal corrupting the war, but letting the mortals on the battlefield judge the truth of their causes. I figure he probably kinda liked that Rebel yell though... :) >> Novalis: Neutral and unhappy about the whole thing >> Yves: Neutral >> >> HELL >> Andrealphus: South The sexual aspects that often were associated with slavery would certainly appeal to him, but I think it would be a minor issue to him. His only real involvement was probably with all the camp followers. >> Asmodeus: Neutral >> Baal: Neutral More like both sides; he was probably using the whole thing as field training and possibly an opportunity to corrupt both militaries. And of course there were the Tethers; several (like Andersonville and the Bloody Angle) are mentioned in Liber Castellorum, and I figure the "Devil's Den" in Gettysburg just begs to be made one as well... :) >> Beleth: South > >Hrm; the reputation of the Southern soldiers would tend to insinuate they >had LESS fear. Definitely neutral; she got plenty of material from both sides. >> Belial: Neutral; Tether somewhere near Atlanta >> Haagenti: Neutral >> Kobal: Neutral Although he probably got some chuckles at the more pitiful Union commanders. I remember one general who got shot after proclaiming "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-" which probably spawned a small Tether at least. He might also have been fighting with Andrealphus over one ship (the Idahoe) which had been given the job of transporting all the prostitutes of Nashville, TN away from the Union occupying forces who they were busy giving VD to. The boat wound up wasting three weeks trying to offload the women someplace else before they gave up and went back to Nashville, with the women in the meantime merrily plying their trade up and down the Cumberland River the whole time :). Makes for a nice mobile Tether I would imagine. >> Kronos: Neutral >> Lilith: Publicly neutral; privately helping the North In answer to some people who've said she'd support the South because they were attempting to gain their freedom, I would say she views all governments as tyrannies by her standards anyway. So she would be supporting the abolitionists, maybe even secretly conspiring with Janus for the Underground Railroad. Although she might use the "South fighting for freedom" thing as her official excuse for "neutrality" of course. >> Malphas: Neutral; having a wonderful time > >He was no doubt busy supporting the Copperheads in the North and the >radical opposition to Jefferson Davis in the South, especially those >encouraging their states to secede from the Confederacy. Civil wars are always the kinds of things that warm Malphas's heart at night; his Word without him even lifting a finger. I imagine the buildup to the war was certainly one of his little projects. As for the others... Saminga was grooving as usual (I visualize him doing a Julie Andrews-style "Sound of Music" twirl among the huge piles of corpses littering any of the various battlefields like Antietam... :)), Valefor probably loved the Northern looters, and Vapula sneaked a few prototypes into production here and there (given how many "modern" innovations in warfare can be seen in the ACW, it's pretty obvious he'd take at least some interest in things). As for some of the individuals involved... I'd say Lincoln and Grant met their Destinies (although Grant barely avoided a Fate of dying as a drunkard in obscurity), as well as Lee and Stonewall. Most of the others I'm not sure of (many of them probably didn't even have their Destinies/Fates tied to the actual war in all likelyhood). Sherman is an interesting case; I would almost consider him a great example of meeting both Destiny and Fate. While he did turn against his natural inclinations to do what he thought was right (funnily enough outside his choice of sides he really tended to favor the Southern culture from what I gathered, he just couldn't stomach secession), some of his methods, whether deliberately or not, were a little too Baal-style probably. Of course, like all famous potential reincarnations, a nice possible source for a modern-era IN character :). - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:52:26 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) A bit of a reach, but I already did something about fasting. :) Moe Songs of Mimicry (Restricted: Mortals Only) These Songs are favored among those Soldiers that can know and use them: properly used, they can thoroughly confuse anyone trying to ferret out someone's true nature. Note that a Soldier will still need an Ethereal or Celestial Connection to perform the appropriate Songs! At no time will a celestial's dissonance restrictions be affected by the use of these Songs. Corporeal The body of the target takes on all the corporeal advantages of a celestial vessel for an indeterminate amount of time. This means, among other things, that the target no longer needs sleep, food or drink: in fact, the Song immediately ends if the target indulges in any of these three activities. Otherwise, duration is for (CD) days, and cannot be maintained. Ethereal Use of this Song will double Will or Strength (to a maximum of 12), for the purpose of resisting a demonic resonance only. Duration is for (CD) hours, and may be maintained. Celestial Any actions taken by the target will be treated by the Symphony as if a celestial in a vessel did them. This essentially means that acts of destruction will cause disturbance. An unwilling target may resist this Song with a Will -2 roll. The duration for this Song is one day, and may be maintained. Essence Requirement: 4 (half cost to maintain, if applicable) Degree of Disturbance: none ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:54:16 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 3, 2001 (ML) Well, I was all set to do an NPC that took the form of Ye Olde Demone Dolle Frome Helle, but then I thought, "Hey. Why should Shedim have all the fun?" :) Moe Numinous Corpus: Doll The performer may assume the form of a doll. While in this form, the performer may not move, walk or talk unless the doll would be capable of doing so normally (needless to say, the modern age has made this Song somewhat more useful): however, the performer may still hear and see. Size and mass may be altered, but at a cost to maximum Body Hits: 1x to 1/4 mass: No change 1/4 to 1/16 mass: Body Hits/2 1/16 to 1/64 mass: Body Hits/4 ...and so on. Note that reducing a 150lb vessel to a 2 1/2 pound doll will require a division of mass/weight by 64: using this Song to turn the same vessel into a 1/2 pound toy plastic robot will divide mass by about 256, and Body Hits by 8. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:52:26 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) A bit of a reach, but I already did something about fasting. :) Moe Songs of Mimicry (Restricted: Mortals Only) These Songs are favored among those Soldiers that can know and use them: properly used, they can thoroughly confuse anyone trying to ferret out someone's true nature. Note that a Soldier will still need an Ethereal or Celestial Connection to perform the appropriate Songs! At no time will a celestial's dissonance restrictions be affected by the use of these Songs. Corporeal The body of the target takes on all the corporeal advantages of a celestial vessel for an indeterminate amount of time. This means, among other things, that the target no longer needs sleep, food or drink: in fact, the Song immediately ends if the target indulges in any of these three activities. Otherwise, duration is for (CD) days, and cannot be maintained. Ethereal Use of this Song will double Will or Strength (to a maximum of 12), for the purpose of resisting a demonic resonance only. Duration is for (CD) hours, and may be maintained. Celestial Any actions taken by the target will be treated by the Symphony as if a celestial in a vessel did them. This essentially means that acts of destruction will cause disturbance. An unwilling target may resist this Song with a Will -2 roll. The duration for this Song is one day, and may be maintained. Essence Requirement: 4 (half cost to maintain, if applicable) Degree of Disturbance: none ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:20:38 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 3: Adad (first part) spoiler space for my campaign - --- ** Adad, Demon Prince of the Cacophony ** "Every world is noise and pain." Where there is a Fall, where there is Yves -- that is, in every Symphony -- there is Kronos. An aspect of God? The Remnant of Raphael? Jesus Christ, after the First of the Fallen had spoken to him? It doesn't matter. Like Yves, Kronos is now everywhere. Adad was the first Balseraph Kronos ever created *personally*. He was given the Kyriotate resonance, and taught dark things about the Corpus. Some say - -- among them, many of his Servitors -- that Kronos had to drive him mad before he could really understand. Even before Lucifer gave Adad his Word, Kronos had sworn him to secrecy -- not because it would be bad for the Corpus, but because Kronos wanted Adad to become powerful, and keeping the Cacophony a secret helps him maintain his power. That is all Adad was required to do. Amass power. Tinker with the Symphony as he saw fit. Adad uses his knowledge of other Symphonies to manipulate political events in a given Hell (i.e. this trick worked in Reich-5's Hell, so it should work here), so that those he favors come out on top. His favorites vary from moment to moment, though his former master, Kronos, is always given consideration, not because Adad loves him, but because Adad fears him. Adad *knows* that Kronos has not told him everything; this is even more of a worry to him than his arch-nemesis: Syth, the Archangel of the Repertoire. Like Syth's angels, Adad's demons pretend to work for other Demon Princes - -- or even Archangels, in the case of the Balseraphs -- when on the Corporeal. Kronos had been pretty generous about granting his Attunements to Adad's demons for this purpose. Officially, Adad doesn't exist, though in virtually every Hell he has a secret Principality, close to the Lower Hells, with souls carefully culled for him by Kronos or some other Demon Prince he has quietly duped; after all, he *is* a Balseraph. (He has a fondness for posing as Princes that are dead in a particular Symphony, and secretly allying with a weak Prince. He's convinced several versions of Furfur that he's Demogorgon.) Adad doesn't make as extensive a use of humans as his Heavenly counterpart, Syth, but he does use them much more than most Demon Princes, because of his need for secrecy. Like some versions of the Prince of Secrets (many of which he's allied with, under another name), he is fond of secret cults, who often worship him in the name of a Demon Prince long since dead, or even by the name of a dead Archangel. (Servitors of Syth know to be wary of any human who claims to be secretly in league with the Angels of Raphael -- and that's just one of the faces of Adad they've managed to expose. There are many more.) To maintain secrecy, when recruiting other demons that have learned Adad's secret, the demons in question request a transfer to Kronos, who then transfers them to Adad, or Adad just arranges to have their hearts smashed to make them go Renegade briefly before entering his service. Unwilling recruits are sometimes acquired this way as well, and Adad does extensive recruiting among Renegades and the Unknown (newly Fallen angels who have never served a Prince), in some cases recruiting demons while posing as another (dead) Demon Prince (who, once they know what's really going on, are afraid to defect). In fact, because of his belief in raw power, Adad's servitors are nearly all kept in check by fear. Adad seems to be everywhere, and is fond of suprising his servants by showing up when least expected. Anyone who hesitates to follow orders has his forces disbanded on the spot, so his demons are often as fanatical as Syth's angels, though for different reasons. Adad makes sure the best tools available to him, from an infinite number of Symphonies. All the Songs in Liber Canticorum, and a few more besides, are known to him, though they are not given too freely. The most commonly taught "secret" songs are the Songs of Oblivion (particular the Ethereal version) and the Songs of Forgetting (see Liber Canticorum, p. 73 and 97 respectively). Adad is less tight with his toys than Syth is with hers, by way of compensation for the terror he inspires in his servitors. Like Syth's servitors, Adad's servitors often refer to a particular Symphony by an idiosyncratic nickname. Because it annoys Syth's servitors, they prefer to use the same name as the angels of the Repertoire, if they know it, though left to their own devices, the names they come up with on their own are often quite colorful indeed. For example, the Symphony where Saminga has taken Lucifer's place on Hell's throne is often referred to "The Court of the Stinking Idiot-Kingmaggot". An important aspect of Adad's Word is the idea that the Corpus is a collection of random noises, spurted out by a blind, idiot God (or by nothingness), a true Cacophony. It's all meaningless, and if there is a reason behind it, it's irrelevant, stupid, insipid, or all three. There is a large amount of nihilism in Adad's Word, the feeling that there's no point, so it is best to grab what you can. Incidentally, this slightly different idea of the Corpus, as embodied by Adad, prevents Syth and Adad from experiencing the sort of Word-friction that has driven Gabriel mad in so many Symphonies, but has made them bitter enemies nonetheless. * Dissonance * It is dissonant for one of Adad's demons to reveal, through their words or their actions, the existence of the Corpus to someone who does not already know the secret. The dissonance can be erased by recruiting the person (and anyone they've mentioned the secret to) to Adad's service, making them forget (through a Song, perhaps) or killing them (and anyone else they told). A second note of dissonance is incurred if someone who the demon revealed the secret to (on purpose or by accident) joins Syth's ranks! * Band Attunements * Balseraphs (restricted) Adad likes to say that all his Balserpahs are made in his own image, even those he recruits from other Princes. All Balseraphs of the Cacophony have the Kyriotate resonance and dissonance conditions. Also, like Syth's Kyriotates, they can possess hosts in different Symphonies, unlike normal Kyriotates. Being in multiple hosts in different Symphonies is the same as being in different hosts on different planes, with an attendant loss in actions (see the APG, p. 55). Also, since the Balserpah's access to the Kyriotate resonance is in a sense a lie, and being in different Symphonies strains that lie, a Balseraph of the Cacophony is at a -2 to all actions while in different Symphonies at the same time. Balseraphs who like having a vessel of their own had better keep quiet about it while in Adad's service. Djinn (restricted) Unlike normal Djinn, Djinn of the Cacophony can remain attuned to objects and persons in another Symphony. Many are asked to attune to a few persons and then sit tight, keeping tabs on "important persons" from related Symphonies. The Djinn love this job; it makes them feel important and doesn't entail much work, other than a little Symphony-hopping. Calabim Calabim of the Cacophony can destroy memories. They may perform the Ethereal Song of Oblivion (see Liber Canticorm, p. 73) at no Essence cost. They still have to learn the Song (which Adad's Servitors have access to, of course) and aside from the waived Essence cost, the song still disturbs the Symphony. Habbalah (restricted) Adad's Habbalah can use their resonance to instill an extreme form of nihilism and despair in a victim. In game terms, this is identical to Emptiness, except the feeling cannot rebound on the Habbalite (merely causing dissonance in the case of a victims successful Will roll), and there is a penalty to the victim's Will roll identical to 7 minus the check digit of the Habbalite's resonance roll (that is, the less powerful the feeling is, the harder it is to resist). Lilim (restricted) Few Lilim serve Adad, because it means Adad has to either tell a version of Lilith that he exists (which he won't do, out of distrust), or a Lilim must Geas herself to secrecy before even starting to discuss terms (which only the most curious will do). Those who do are given a Servant in the form of a Soldier of Adad (a class 5 Servant) as a "signing bonus", at a Level equal to the Lilim's Celestial Forces at the time they join. (This is the other reason few Lilim serve Adad, even after sworn to secrecy: The offer smacks of slavery. Adad does this because despite the self-Geas, he fears spies for Freedom, destiring only the most selfish and mercenary Lilim.) Shedim (restricted) Former hosts of Shedim of the Cacophony have trouble remembering things they did while possessed, so as better to keep the secrets of the Corpus. Unless the former host makes a Will roll with a check digit equal to or higher than the Shedim's Celestial Forces, when the host tries to bring up a particular memory, all he remembers is terrible noise and darkness. The former host only gets one attempt per memory, whenever such things become relevant. This degregration of memory happens all at once when the Shedim leaves the host, for whatever reason. Impudites Like Kronos, the Prince of the Cacophony understands that certain individuals are often pivotal in a particular Symphony's history. An Impudite of the Repertoire can look at a person and know, in an instant, if they have the potential to be such a person, are currently engaged in a historic endeavor, or have already engendered a major change. The demon doesn't know why this person is pivotal or even the details -- he just knows if a person is "important" or not, in terms of seriously affecting their local Symphony within their lifetime. For some reason, Celestials never show up as "important" when using this attunement. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2093 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.