From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Mar 3 19:06:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11902 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 19:06:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA05006 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 19:09:43 -0600 Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 19:09:43 -0600 Message-Id: <200103040109.TAA05006@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2094 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, March 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2094 In this digest: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 4: Adad (2nd part) Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War IN> complete Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony on the Web IN> (Relic) The Dogma Stick Re: IN> Re: In Glamine Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War Re: IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) IN> Frantic Waving of Hands IN> Re: Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War Re: IN> Re: Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion IN> Do animals enter the marches? Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? Re: IN> World War I (was Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War) Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:22:13 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: IN> Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony, Part 4: Adad (2nd part) spoiler space (for my campaign) - --- (band attunements continued) Skulkers (restricted) It is up to the GM if there are Symphonies where the Fallen Grigori decided to serve Demon Princes, rather than simply hiding from everyone. If any such Symphonies exist, Adad has Skulkers working for him, though very few. Adad's Skulkers let him know who else knows the Secret. Upon touching someone, a Skulker of the Cacophony can make a Perception check. If successful, the Skulker knows if the person knows that other Symphonies exist. (Someone who believes in other Symphonies, but has seen no proof, doesn't count.) At higher check digits, the GM may, at his discretion, let the Skulker know how much the person knows, or how they know (i.e. he's been to one other Symphony because of one of Vapula's experiments). * Servitor Attunements * Cover Story By spending 3 Essence, the servitor can look at a person and come up with a plausible story (with all the needed details, such as "why don't I have appropriate ID") for being where they currently are doing what they're currently doing that the person will accept, which doesn't reveal anything about the servitor's celestial nature or the Cacophony. This is generally used when the servitor is caught doing something weird or illegal, like breaking into a building. If no story will sound plausible, spending the Essence lets the demon know this fact, allowing other options to be considered. Note that "plausible" does not in any way imply "good for the person using the attunement." For example, on McCarthy-4, a Symphony where the Red Scare went on well into the 21st century (with a strong Soviet Union to match), a plausible story for breaking into an FBI office is "I'm a Communist spy." But telling the guard that isn't going to win you any friends. The cover story will not get the servitor out of trouble (though it might), it just will cover up the fact he's a supernatural servant of the Cacophony, and will be believable to the person the attunement is used on. Also, using this power on crazy or gullible people can be... educational. ("I'm a clone created by space aliens. Yes, really.") World-Walker This allows the servitor to shift to any Symphony that exists, assuming the servitor had been there before or the world has been described to them, in detail, for at least an hour, and the Symphony so described actually exists. This attunement costs 6 Essence to use, and will place the servitor in about the same spot on Earth in the new Symphony, as close as possible without having the servitor appear in solid matter. Sometimes (GM's whim), metaphysical/thematic geography is more important than physical geography -- if one uses this attunement while atop the Empire State Building, and the Empire State Building was moved to London in the Symphony being moved into, the servitor may end up in London. If the servitor doesn't have 6 Essence, or is in a rush, he can spend all the Essence he has (at least one -- those empty of Essence can't use this attunement) and he will shift over to a "nearby" (similar history and physics, different details) Symphony of the GM's choice. Though by no means a hard and fast rule, servitors who use this "escape route" a lot find that the less Essence they have to spend, the worse the world they end up in generally is. Servitors of Adad are expected to use this "escape route" to save their own skin, but are also expected to deal with the consequences. Not all those who serve Adad have this attunement. Some are assigned to a particular Symphony, and some have technological devices or Artifacts capable of Symphony-shifting assigned to them (though, in game terms, these should cost an comparable amount (or more) in character points). * Distinctions * Knight of False Notes The demon gains the skill Knowledge (World History)/6 for each Symphony he has been to, and for each Symphony he enters subsequently. This Knowledge skill covers the broadest points of the Celestial and Corporeal history of the Symphony in question, like one might expect from a Celestial-aware textbook. Captain of Nihilism By spending 2 Essence per hour the effect is to last, anyone within Ethereal Forces yards of the demon gains a penalty to their Will roll to resist demonic resonances equal to the half the demon's Celestial Forces (round up). Baron of Infinite Grating Demons who have this Distinction have always been granted the World-Walker attunement first. They can now use that attunement at no Essence cost. They still cause a huge Disturbance, however, including additional Disturbance as if they'd spent the Essence. * Relations * Since most Demon Princes don't know Adad exists, they're pretty neutral about him, though they may have different opinions about him if he's pretending to be a dead Demon Prince, based on how they feel about that Prince. Those that do know about the Corpus and Adad are either "associated" or "enemies" -- there's little middle ground, and few enemies last long. Allied: Kronos Associated: Different versions of different Demon Princes, here and there Hostile: Varies; Adad often dislikes most versions of Vapula Enemies: Varies by Symphony * Basic Rites * - - Convince someone that the universe is meaningless without using anything other than conversation, and without revealing the existence of the Cacophony. (+2 Essence) - - Slay the vessel or body of a being who is not native to the local Symphony and does not work for Adad (all servitors of Syth count). - - Spend two hours studying the political situation wherever the demon currently is, so as to better influence it. * Chance of Invocation: 2 * Adad is very busy; he has a lot of worlds to keep track of. However, he loves meddling, so he is more accessible than the Archangel of the Repertoire, though often more distracted because of it. * Invocation Modifiers * +1 Detailed World Map of the Earth the Servitor is currently on, showing political boundaries +2 An Encyclopedia or other extensive reference work dedicated to the world the servitor is currently on +3 Destroy evidence of a Symphony other than the one the servitor is currently in +4 The dead body of a Servitor of Syth +5 A new device or Artifact capable of moving someone between Symphonies +6 Proof that the history of the local Symphony was greatly changed by the intervention of the servitor that is attempting to summon Adad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 06:39:49 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War > >Cromwell's Destiny was to create a new England of religious toleration >where all Christians could co-exist, to found a new dynasty which would >give England stability, and to create a form of government which could >deal with the problems which brought down the old form of monarchical >government. > Cromwell's Puritans were actually _much_ more tolerant of other religions and beliefs than the Catholics had been (unless they were Catholic.) For example, he reversed Edward I's decree that expelled the Jews from England in 1290 -- mainly for economic reasons, but we've always been grateful and remembered him fondly. He was also much more tolerant of protestants outside the church of england than previous governments had been. I would say that he was a great man and an inspired leader, not to mention a great general. Unlike a lot of revolutionary leaders, he never became a corrupt blood-thirsy megalomaniac and did his best to heal the wounds of the civil war after he did come into power (and it was a nasty civil war, that did set brother against brother -- wasn't as strongly geographically based as the US.) I don't doubt he met his destiny -- to set the foundations for a consitutional state in which the sovereign had limited power and parliament played an expanded role, and more freedom in religion. Historians may be mixed in their judgment but I don't think anyone doubts that he was a great man. >Cromwell's Fate was to slaughter his fellow Christians in the name of >Parliament and God, creating permanent enmities among the peoples of the >British Isles. No, his fate would have been to become a bloody tyrant like Robespierre. >King Charles wanted to be a good King. But only a genius could have >solved his problems, and he was no genius. Despite his well-meaning, he >frittered away all his advantages and managed to provoke a Civil War >through his measures Hello? Did we read the same history? He was a complete bloody incompetent. He frittered away the treasury and exploited other powers of the crown, ruled for a decade without parliament and was tactless and stupid in the way he treated the parliaments he did have, and he tried to impose high church (ie catholic) sensibilities on the church of england. And I don't think Dominic would have had any problem with the execution of the King as long as it was basically legal. It did establish that even the king is not above the law. Anyway. This is prolly way off-topic. In the US, do they usually teach that Cromwell was evil, then? jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:46:22 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: IN> complete Repertoire of the Corpus of Cacophony on the Web I've updated the writeup in line with suggestions given to me (ditched the Celestial Chameleon attunement, for example) and put whole thing up on a web page. It's at: http://www.io.com/~xiombarg/alt.txt People from my campaign shouldn't look, of course, unless you want to spoil the fun. -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:38:21 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> (Relic) The Dogma Stick Beth and Moe are ganging up on me and forcing ideas into my brain. :( - -EDG The Dogma Stick Relic/6; Reliquary/1 "What law you make on Earth, so shall I make law in Heaven." At first glance, the Dogma Stick seems to resemble a relic that confers the ability of a Balseraph; it -asserts- truth where it is used. However, the Dogma Stick really does assert truth - it doesn't create it, but rather reaffirms it. More to the point, though, it reaffirms truth by negating an untruth that someone has uttered. The Stick - which takes the appearance of a golden rod, about two feet long, crowned with an emerald and shod with a pearl - contains only a single Essence, with which the user may exert the force of the Truth of the Symphony on a single target. That target realizes whether or not what she just (within a number of minutes equal to the user's Perception) said contradicted the Truth, and why it did so; moreover, anyone within earshot realizes this as well. The Dogma Stick won't change opinions or tastes ("I don't like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"), though it may change the mind of even the most devout fanatics if the Truth is revealed to them. Balseraphs are unaffected by the Dogma Stick, but they are also unable to use it at all (it simply will not function in the hands of any Balseraph); Seraphim, on the other hand, can increase by their Celestial Forces the length of time affected, and may use the Dogma Stick once per day without any Essence. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:16:27 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Eng Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Glamine At 6:23 PM -0500 3/2/01, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >Y'all do realize that this is the unholy offspring of two threads that the >Admin has banned - casting In Nomine and In Nomine music? :) I've been thinking that myself -- but it hasn't turned into an undead thread yet, so I haven't been pressing the point. However, if it turns long and repetitive ("Michael should be Michael Jackson!" "No way, that's Nybbas!" "Nah, he's Andre!")... === Besides, Michael is a normal human who was warped by a team of demons serving Dark Humor and Media. It's amazing what a Balseraph can do with a kid just by being his agent. And let's not get started on the other demons that worked to ruin his life. Hm. Suddenly, I'm wondering if there's a Demon of Gangsta Rap out there... Peter Eng - -------- All your tethers are belong to us. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:14:56 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War On 3 Mar 01, at 6:39, Jo Hart wrote: > I don't doubt he met his destiny -- to set the foundations for a > consitutional state in which the sovereign had limited power and > parliament played an expanded role, and more freedom in religion. > Historians may be mixed in their judgment but I don't think anyone doubts > that he was a great man. > Except that he didn't. He created a military dictatorship in which he had as much power as he needed, and every time a legislative body tried to go against him, he dissolved it. And each time, he progressively restricted who was in it. Cromwell was not in any meaningful sense the father of English Parliamentarianism. And everything he did was largely tossed by the wayside when he died. Very few things Cromwell did endured. In fact, Cromwell's reign provoked a reaction when the Royalists came back into power, in which they methodically undid his finest achievement--the broader religious toleration. They undid all his methods of governing too. But that was little loss, since Cromwell ruled by brute force; without the Army's backing, he would have been tossed aside by other men. > > >Cromwell's Fate was to slaughter his fellow Christians in the name of > >Parliament and God, creating permanent enmities among the peoples of the > >British Isles. > > No, his fate would have been to become a bloody tyrant like Robespierre. > Ask the Irish about that. He certainly slaughtered enough of them that they still hate him centuries later. > > >King Charles wanted to be a good King. But only a genius could have > >solved his problems, and he was no genius. Despite his well-meaning, he > >frittered away all his advantages and managed to provoke a Civil War > >through his measures > > Hello? Did we read the same history? He was a complete bloody incompetent. > He frittered away the treasury and exploited other powers of the crown, > ruled for a decade without parliament and was tactless and stupid in the Have you studied the behavior of the Parliaments of his early reign? A bunch of bloody incompetents who voted for a war, then wouldn't pay for it, then blamed the King for losing it even though they gave him inadequate funds with which to fight it. And he hardly 'frittered away the treasury'. Charles was very sparse with his money; he had to be. He faced a crisis in which the demands on the King to spend money on things which Parliaments asked for, like wars, exceeded the amount of taxes they were willing to vote. James I was a spendthrift; Charles was a miser by necessity. > way he treated the parliaments he did have, and he tried to impose high > church (ie catholic) sensibilities on the church of england. > And? The King was fully within his legal rights to do that. If he hadn't been, the Church of England wouldn't have existed in the first place. And he hardly existed in a vaccuum. Many English people SUPPORTED his measures. Laud wasn't conjured up out of a bottle. > And I don't think Dominic would have had any problem with the execution of > the King as long as it was basically legal. It did establish that even the > king is not above the law. > But it wasn't legal. There was no legal way to execute the King. And it was the culmination of an illegal armed revolt against him. > Anyway. This is prolly way off-topic. In the US, do they usually teach > that Cromwell was evil, then? > I'd like to note that all of my British History professors have in fact been British. And that the 'Cromwell was a right bastard' school of thought is in fact, British in origin. American work about British history tends to follow the British schools. And frankly speaking, few British historians of the US or Britain would claim that Cromwell promoted Parliamentary government these days. Given the man endorsed Colonel Pride's purge of Parliament, and repeatedly crushed any body that sought to oppose him... I'd suggest reading Conrad Russell's work on the British Civil Wars. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:24:21 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) On 2 Mar 01, at 21:52, Maurice Lane wrote: > > Ethereal > Use of this Song will double Will or Strength (to a > maximum of 12), for the purpose of resisting a demonic > resonance only. Duration is for (CD) hours, and may > be maintained. > What does this have to do with mimicry? > Celestial > Any actions taken by the target will be treated by the > Symphony as if a celestial in a vessel did them. This > essentially means that acts of destruction will cause > disturbance. An unwilling target may resist this Song > with a Will -2 roll. The duration for this Song is > one day, and may be maintained. > Nifty! John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:31:11 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Brahmin is Hindu, not Buddhist. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Rolland Therrien To: In Nomine Mailing List Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:23 PM Subject: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion > I've been doing some research on Buddhism today, based on some stuff I've > read. I had in mind of creating an Archangel of Zen (Former Habbalite, > confronted Buddha, then found the path to enlightnment and redeemed.) > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:51:54 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion - -----Original Message----- From: Bevan Thomas To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 3:36 AM Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion >> I've been doing some research on Buddhism today, based on some stuff I've >> read. I had in mind of creating an Archangel of Zen (Former Habbalite, >> confronted Buddha, then found the path to enlightnment and redeemed.) >Brahmin is Hindu, not Buddhist. Actually, from what I've learned on that website, Buddhism is strongly rooted in Hindu theology for most of it's cosmology. In fact, many believe that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu, sent to Earth by Brahma. Other then that, what do you think of my ideas for Ofanites and Malakites? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:27:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> March 2, 2001 (ML) On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Maurice Lane wrote: > Corporeal > The body of the target takes on all the corporeal > advantages of a celestial vessel for an indeterminate > amount of time. This means, among other things, that > the target no longer needs sleep, food or drink: in > fact, the Song immediately ends if the target indulges > in any of these three activities. Otherwise, duration > is for (CD) days, and cannot be maintained. I like it, but it makes Khalid's similar attunement Fast (for mortals only) much less unique and special. > Ethereal > Use of this Song will double Will or Strength (to a > maximum of 12), for the purpose of resisting a demonic > resonance only. Duration is for (CD) hours, and may > be maintained. A *very useful* song, to be sure... but I agree with John - what's it got to do with mimicry? Also, it's a bit TOO useful... doubling Will/Strength is a LOT for a Soldier. I'd suggest that you get to add your appropriate Forces to resistance rolls, much like Celestials often can. > Celestial > Any actions taken by the target will be treated by the > Symphony as if a celestial in a vessel did them. This > essentially means that acts of destruction will cause > disturbance. An unwilling target may resist this Song > with a Will -2 roll. The duration for this Song is > one day, and may be maintained. Yes. Brilliant and FUN. I like. :) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! The Earth it did crack open / On the day that I was born And a thousand merry pranksters / Came dancin' through the storm I am Antipop / I'll run against the grain till the day I drop I am the Antipop / The man you cannot stop -- Primus, "The Antipop" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 07:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Frantic Waving of Hands If there's anyone out there who knows Malachai Davidson (or has a RT way of contacting him), would you please tell him to email me about his Tattered net.book Writeups? Like, by Sunday? We now return you to your regularly scheduled IN List. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:13:47 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion > I found out more about the > cosmology of Buddhist philosophy, and I wondered how these elements could > fit into In Nomine's more standard Judeo-Christian cosmology. I came up > with some interesting ideas... > > In Buddhist philosophy, the various beings are, from highest to lowest: One thing you may want to keep in mind here is that Buddhism isn't really one single entity with a single cosmology or even standardized beliefs. Heck, even between the various sects of Mahayana Buddhism there are massive, massive differences. For instance, Buddhism in China is a synthesis of the original Indian beliefs and ideas that were native to China. Similar things happened when Chan Buddhism (a mixture of Buddhism and Daoism) went to Japan and became Zen. And all throughout Asia, Buddhism is incarnated in very divergent ways, from the Tibetan style (Vajrayana) that exists also in a different form among the Mongols, to the proliferation of orthodox (Hinayana) Buddhism and philosophical (Theravada) Buddhism in South-East Asia. Then again, Buddhism is a semi-divine religion that doesn't produce Ethereals (unlike the Hinduism that it grew out of), which means that all these divergent systems must be doing something that is pleasing to Heaven and God himself. Another thing, since Buddhism is semi-divine, there aren't any reasons why there couldn't be Buddhist angels or even a Buddhist Archangel. Sure, Dominic wouldn't be too pleased, but there's not much that he could do about it. In fact, IMC, there's an Archangel of the Way, who is basically in charge of watching over all the semi-divine Asian religions, since most of them are so interconnected and similar that it would be impossible to truly seperate them apart. In most of Asia, nobody thinks twice about being both a Buddhist, a Daoist, a Confucianist, a Socialist, and a follower of traditional folk beliefs, no matter how contradictory that seems. I don't see how angels and Heaven would be alien concepts, and they could easily be included as well. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 10:31:09 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War Jo Hart wrote: > Anyway. This is prolly way off-topic. In the US, do they usually teach that> Cromwell was evil, then? Usually. We have a pretty large Irish-American populution, remember.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:17:41 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion - -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Walton To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: IN> Re: Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion > Another thing, since Buddhism is semi-divine, there aren't any reasons why > there couldn't be Buddhist angels or even a Buddhist Archangel. Sure, > Dominic wouldn't be too pleased, but there's not much that he could do > about it. In fact, IMC, there's an Archangel of the Way, who is basically > in charge of watching over all the semi-divine Asian religions, since most > of them are so interconnected and similar that it would be impossible to > truly seperate them apart. In most of Asia, nobody thinks twice about > being both a Buddhist, a Daoist, a Confucianist, a Socialist, and a > follower of traditional folk beliefs, no matter how contradictory that > seems. I don't see how angels and Heaven would be alien concepts, and they > could easily be included as well. It's interesting that you mention your Archangel of the Way. I've been working on a Buddhist Archangel of my own: Tulkou, Elohite Archangel of Enlightnment. I've only done some basic conceptualizing so far, but the basic idea behind was to make him a Habbalite who had been sent to try and corrupt Ghudarma Siddartha, He who would become Buddha, but failed. The meditating monk made the hapless demon focus on his own emotions, and taught him not to supress them, but to move beyond them, as the emotions were ultimatly a hindrance to enlightnment. This lead to the Habbalite becoming balanced in his heart, and went to Heaven to seek Redemption. In service to Destiny, he eventually worked his way into becoming the Archangel of Enlightnment, a teacher seeking to enlighten the world to the Truth. Like I said, I'm still working on it. I would like to see your Archangel of the Way, though. Maybe I can get some inspiration for my own work from yours. BTW, doesn't anyone have something to say about my ideas for Seraphim, Ofanim and Malakites? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:48:19 -0500 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: IN> Do animals enter the marches? That's about it. Just wondering. Thanks. Daniel Archangel of Slackers "The world is... hey, pass the Dortitos." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:40:47 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell and the ENGLISH Civil War At 6:39 AM -0500 3/3/01, Jo Hart wrote: > >Anyway. This is prolly way off-topic. In the US, do they usually >teach that Cromwell was evil, then? Sigh. No. No they don't. In the US, they don't usually teach Cromwell, period. It disgusts me. What we do get of Cromwell *is* colored by his Puritanism, which I've never understood -- there's no country with more Puritanism in its history and in the content of its national character than America, and yet we seem allergic to prominent Puritans in history, unless they're known for cooking turkey. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 12:07:37 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? >From: "Daniel Gallagher" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> Do animals enter the marches? >Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:48:19 -0500 > >That's about it. Just wondering. Thanks. > >Daniel >Archangel of Slackers >"The world is... hey, pass the Dortitos." The ones that can Dream maybe (Cats, Dogs, higher mammals etc.) but these dreams are usally to simply to be altered so B&B usually ignore them. Brad _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:14:39 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? >From: "Daniel Gallagher" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> Do animals enter the marches? >Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:48:19 -0500 > >That's about it. Just wondering. Thanks. > Yes. Animals have dreamscapes. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 13:17:39 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? At 12:48 PM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >That's about it. Just wondering. Thanks. IMU, anything that exists naturally on the corporeal plane (i.e. not celestials or ethereals) AND has an intelligence score greater than 0 can generate a dreamscape in the Marches when they sleep. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:41:26 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Jesus, AA of God (For you IN/MS fans) Perry Lloyd wrote: [...] > So, this makes the game *very* christian-centric. Oh, and AA Jesuss is > known to be God's favorite AA, and that Jesus the AA is a bit arrogant and > somewhat spoiled. heh. Don't have the book to hand, but ISTR one of the bits of the write-up being a comment about the crucifixion: "Ha! It didn't even hurt." Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Convert ZIPs to Mac format: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/macifyzip/ In Nomine Cookbook: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/innomine/ "All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates." - Woody Allen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:47:20 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Many Hindus believe that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu. Buddhists do not believe in Vishnu or Brahma, and they believe that Buddha was a man. Buddhism does derive a decent amount from Hinduism, but from what I know of it, Buddhism lacks a supreme being. The Malakim and Ofanim do seem very cool. They seem more Hindu then Buddhism though, but then there are quite a few Buddhist denominations, and perhaps the website is about one I haven't read about. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Rolland Therrien To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:51 AM Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion > > Actually, from what I've learned on that website, Buddhism is strongly > rooted in Hindu theology for most of it's cosmology. In fact, many believe > that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu, sent to Earth by Brahma. > > Other then that, what do you think of my ideas for Ofanites and Malakites? > > -Exit the LoneWolf > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:50:13 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? I am not sure if an intelligent greater than 0 (game-wise) is required. After all, according to You are Hear, spiders have dreamscapes. I don't think spiders have an Ethereal force. - ----- Original Message ----- From: EDG To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? > > IMU, anything that exists naturally on the corporeal plane (i.e. not > celestials or ethereals) AND has an intelligence score greater than 0 can > generate a dreamscape in the Marches when they sleep. > > -EDG > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 14:26:29 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion - -----Original Message----- From: Bevan Thomas To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion >Many Hindus believe that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu. Buddhists do >not believe in Vishnu or Brahma, and they believe that Buddha was a man. >Buddhism does derive a decent amount from Hinduism, but from what I know of >it, Buddhism lacks a supreme being. Ok, my bad. I forgot, I gained half my information about Buddha's life through the Encylopedia Mythica, from the Hindu Mythology section, and I got the Brahma and Vishnu information from there. I guess I fudged up a bit. >The Malakim and Ofanim do seem very cool. They seem more Hindu then Buddhism >though, but then there are quite a few Buddhist denominations, and perhaps >the website is about one I haven't read about. Thanks. The ofanite idea came to me when looking at images of demonic-looking beings serving beings of Good, and past discussions as to the greate difference between Ofanite and Calabim Celestial forms came to mind. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:58:35 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion Demonic-looking people serving good is quite common in various religion, even in Christianity. After all, Ezekiel encountered an angel (I think it was a cherub) who looked like a huge man with four faces (one facing each direction): one of a man, one of an eagle, one of a lion, and one more which I forget. The angel had four arms, four wings, and hooves of brass. He was surrounded by twirling flaming wheels festooned with eyes (ofanim). Ezekiel did the sane thing and fainted. It's a rather modern concept that servants of good look nice and safe. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Rolland Therrien To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 11:26 AM Subject: Re: IN> Buddhism in In Nomine: A Fusion > > Thanks. The ofanite idea came to me when looking at images of > demonic-looking beings serving beings of Good, and past discussions as to > the greate difference between Ofanite and Calabim Celestial forms came to > mind. > > -Exit the LoneWolf > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:11:50 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? >>That's about it. Just wondering. Thanks. >> > >Yes. Animals have dreamscapes. ha ha ha ha ha yes. Animals dreams, so IMHO, they, too, deserve Dreamscapes. Is this mentioned in either the core rules or The Marches? IMSM yes, in reference to dinosaur dreams or something . . . Not that it's ever /important/ since the GM and players will most likely be concerned with the dreams of humans only. Besides, having the dreams of ALL the animals on the planet, not just the furless, bipedal, and generally clueless ones, would really make the Marches a crowded place. Not that it isn't aleady with what, between 1 million and 3 million dreamscapes at any given time? Frankly, after considering it, I'm surprised that there's only one Superior on either side for managing things . . . that's like having one Superior to look after one half the the world (the Americas, Africa and Europe, perhaps) and the other to look after the other (Asia, Australia, Antartica). Something like that, forgive if I forgot your continent. (hey, penguins dream, too) - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 00:35 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> World War I (was Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War) > Sam Kington wrote: > I think the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand stinks of the sort of > thing that would get any one of Asmodeus, Kobal or Malphas a tether. > Consider: the head of the Black Hand -- the terrorist group that killed > him -- was *also* the head of the secret police assigned to capture > them. You have that e-mail address, and you consider this to be an exceptional event? I dunno, the youth of today ... :) > That has the sort of bitter irony and implausibility that only one of > those three Princes could truly appreciate. :) Only them and every half-skilled counter-intelligence agent in the world. Oh, you mean amongst Princes... Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be an absence of devious thought in a lot of IN. I mean, the possibility of a Djinn of the Game who's cover is blown but doesn't know it, was only one of my motives for recently slipping a small, sly, Corporeal Healing into a badly burned chap in a hospital bed who won't recover consciousness for at least a week. Let's face it, if he /is/ a Djinn then under the right circumstances his boss is his biggest enemy. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:02:35 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? - -----Original Message----- From: Perry Lloyd To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:18 PM Subject: Re: IN> Do animals enter the marches? >>>That's about it. Just wondering. Thanks. >>> >> >>Yes. Animals have dreamscapes. > >ha ha ha ha ha > >yes. Animals dreams, so IMHO, they, too, deserve Dreamscapes. Is this >mentioned in either the core rules or The Marches? IMSM yes, in reference >to dinosaur dreams or something . . . > >Not that it's ever /important/ since the GM and players will most likely be >concerned with the dreams of humans only. Besides, having the dreams of ALL >the animals on the planet, not just the furless, bipedal, and generally >clueless ones, would really make the Marches a crowded place. Not that it >isn't aleady with what, between 1 million and 3 million dreamscapes at any >given time? I would think that animals of various types would have dreamscapes situated outside Blandine and Beleth's regular realms, in the deeper Marches. Of course, those dreamscapes would have little in common with human dreams. They would be more limited, focusing on their animalisitc instincts and sensory perceptions. Animal dreams would probably center around eating and mating, or reliving childhood sensations, nothing more. Speaking of animals and dreams, I once had an idea based on a fiction-post someone made in response to my "War of Dreams" mini-series, which implied the creatures of HP Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos were Ethereals. My theory is, they are. They're Ethereals born from the dreams of countless invertebrates: seashells and crawfish, squids and medusae... Anything with even a limited sensory system can dream, and the dreams of those creatures coalesced into things so alien, human minds can't cope with their existance. >Frankly, after considering it, I'm surprised that there's only one Superior >on either side for managing things . . . that's like having one Superior to >look after one half the the world (the Americas, Africa and Europe, perhaps) >and the other to look after the other (Asia, Australia, Antartica). >Something like that, forgive if I forgot your continent. By that standard, one can wonder how Jordi manages to watch over an even greater number of animals, spread all over the world, or how ANY Archangel can keep thinking globally. First off, they're all nigh-omnipotent in regards to their words, allowing them to scatter their perceptions across large distances in regards to matters concerning their Words. Secondly, they have a lot of Servitors who handle the actual footwork of going into the field and handle problems. Thirdly, in the Marches and in Heaven and Hell, distances are a matter of conceptualising and perception, not definite fact. What may seem like kilometers to cover on foot might only take a split-second to travel, and a short walk might last you ages. At least, that's how I see it. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2094 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.