From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 8 21:37:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30728 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:37:16 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA16129 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:41:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:41:10 -0600 Message-Id: <200103090341.VAA16129@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2100 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2100 In this digest: Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Re: IN> In a galaxy far far away... IN> Re: No IN/Feng Shui IN> Re: Had a thought Re: IN> Moving silently Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Re: IN> Had a thought. Re:IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> March 8, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> Wendigo Re: IN> March 8, 2001 (ML) IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> Cleaning out the Unfinished Stuff Directory Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> Cleaning out the Unfinished Stuff Directory Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory IN> Please, no bashing! Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> Please, no bashing! Re: IN> Had a thought. Re: IN> In a galaxy far far away... Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> Dead men do tell tales Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: IN> Please, no bashing! Re: IN> Moving silently Re: Re:IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 8 Mar 2001 09:55:08 -0800 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please On Thu, 08 March 2001, daiv@cruzio.com wrote: > Or, Feng Shui, with a little conversion, and some creative interpretation, > makes a great setting for an IN mortals game. Oh yeah. Simply assume that all FS PCs are natural 6-Force humans (with those skills, how could they not be?), and that anything with less than 5 Forces is a mook. Angels and Demons, by definition, cannot be mooks, but pre-fledge entities like relievers, gremlins, and so forth can and usually are. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 8 Mar 2001 10:05:31 -0800 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> In a galaxy far far away... On Thu, 08 March 2001, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Okay, I give. Where does "Victims of Our Own Ontology" come from > and what does it mean? It sounds very amusing. I made it up. :) ontology \On*tol"o*gy\, n. [Gr. ? the things which exist (pl.neut. of ?, ?, being, p. pr. of ? to be) + -logy: cf.F. ontologie.] That department of the science of metaphysics which investigates and explains the nature and essential properties and relations of all beings, as such, or the principles and causes of being. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. Loosely translated, it means "Our own preconceptions about the world/reality/The Symphony/the nature of God/etc are limiting our understanding about what is *really* going on." It's a highly eschatological campaign. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:25:24 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: No IN/Feng Shui > (Look, why the RPG company named an action game after the Tao of > Interior Decorating, I'll never know, but any character *I* made in a > Feng Shui/In Nomine game will be centered around "manipulating his > immediate environment to maximize its positive impact on emotions, > spirit, finances and health.") :) Totally with Eric on this one. It's almost as silly as naming a game after a piece of a Latin phrase, so that it doesn't mean anything by itself :) Later. Jonathan, Outcast Djinn of the Symphony ISO The Way (Tattered) Angel of Feng Shui ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:30:02 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Had a thought > Here are some ideas of mine: > J Department (Bond reference) > Lightning Divison > Electrical Engineering > Spark-tech > R&D (What the Jean boys probably call themselves anyway) I've always just called it "Zaptech" :) Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:59:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Moving silently At 11:45 PM -0500 3/7/01, Eric Bertish wrote: >> Of course! After all, cinematic _COMBAT_ skills foster things like, >> "My Favorite Pistol, Judy, and My Favorite Rifle, Phil." > >... which are perfect examples of Signature Weapons/ Corporeal Artifacts, >not skills. Depends on which cinematic meme one wishes to perpatrate, really. Note the bonuses for melee combat, vs the lack of bonuses for ranged combat. (IIRC; the half-asleep baby will try to eat the BlueBook if it comes in range) IN is suppsed to have fist-fights, not shoot-'em-ups. (And that's without the stuff about aiming bonuses and 5-sec-rounds...) (Mind, I'm coming to this thing already developed and figuring out what the memetics behind it must have been, so I could be wrong. You'd have to hunt down Pearcy and shoot him up with Fast-Penta to find out for sure...) And, of course, one can always peer at the thing and go, "Weapons skills are supposed to be specialized, but Driving isn't? Feh, they're all unspecialized." Run with it. Be free. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:00:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. At 6:15 AM -0800 3/8/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Is there a canonical (or just common usage) designator >for Jean's stuff? You know, the Heavenly version of >Vaputech. JeanTech shows up around our games, but it's not canonical. At least, at the moment. One never knows. >A good name for Jean's organization along those lines >would be nice, too. Demons in our group call 'em Sparkies. (You know, "C'mere, boy! C'mere, Sparky! Sit! Heel!") I think that slang has crept in amongst irrevrent angels, too. (That said, "Revelation and Development" had me cracked up...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:02:23 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Eric Burns wrote: > > Look, why the RPG company named an action game after the Tao of > Interior Decorating, I'll never know, but any character *I* made in a > Feng Shui/In Nomine game will be centered around "manipulating his > immediate environment to maximize its positive impact on emotions, > spirit, finances and health." Look at that sentence through the eyes of an evil mastermind. Obviously, he whose bases have the best feng shui clearly can TAKE OVER THE WORLD. :) Seriously, some of the best roleplaying I've ever seen has happened in a friend's FS campaign, so I'm not gonna believe that FS is more of a munchkin game than any other. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:11:29 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Hi all. I have to admit, when you think about it, the way FS works could well be the way that soldiers are caught up in the war. The spiritual elements are there, as is the combat, which is juuuuuuust about where the soldiers are stuck, they know about the spiritual, but they're the grunts that get stuck with the foot work and minor fights. I've used FS in games where in nomine rules are a little harsh on the soldiers, and FS works rather well. But enough of the OT stuff. I think that marc may well have put the backing behind the FS game, with elements from khalid and michael, but some where in the works, a daemon got hold of the rules and tweaked them a little. Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:10:05 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. At 2:00 PM -0500 3/8/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Demons in our group call 'em Sparkies. > >(You know, "C'mere, boy! C'mere, Sparky! Sit! Heel!") > >I think that slang has crept in amongst irrevrent angels, too. Oh, you think? (I run a game that's been Lightning heavy the last couple of times. The semi-Renegade Lilim calls them Sparkies. Now, everyone else seems to. Their main contact's an Elohite who doesn't care, but now they're with Millicent, and Millicent.... Well, Millicent is Millicent. I'm sure they wouldn't be rude. Not to Millicent.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: 8 Mar 2001 19:22:12 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please On Thu, 08 Mar 2001 14:59:09 Janet Anderson wrote: [snip] >In Nomine has a Symphony. Feng Shui has a Background With Excuses For >Fighting. > >And what, exactly, would PCs serving anything other than War, Sword, or >Stone *do* in a Feng Shui world? i'm just interjecting a hypothesis, but i think Eric has plans for using Feng Shui's mechanics in In Nomine's setting. he's free to correct me if i'm wrong, but i for one think it would be stellar (and i think both games have their merits, thankyouverymuch). "When sparks fly, robots die." --Bill Dwyer, BATTLEBOTS announcer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:36:39 -0800 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please Good ol' Whistling said: > (Look, why the RPG company named an action game after the Tao of > Interior Decorating, I'll never know, but any character *I* made in a > Feng Shui/In Nomine game will be centered around "manipulating his > immediate environment to maximize its positive impact on emotions, > spirit, finances and health.") I think the honest answer is "it sounded nifty", but a fairly major component of the game is the influencing of history through control of geomantically significant sites. If, in modern day, the Goldfish Fanciers control most of the sites, when you travel to the Far Future it's quite probable it will be ... well, whatever having Goldfish Fanciers as Secret Masters gets you. If the fight in modern times results in the Discordians getting control of more of the sites, the future will reflect them. This is because the organization's "emotions, spirit, finances and health" will be enhanced and their success in taking over the world more likely. The best roleplayer I know introduced me to FS. You have to understand that it's meant to be funny and reasonably light-hearted. Yes, it's very combat oriented but it's meant to recreate a specific sort of film which tends to be rather combat-heavy. I am still very attached to a character I made up for a game at a convention once. I got to take 'unavailable magical artifact lore' as a skill. I was an ancient master type and ended up saying "If only we had the Copper Windhammer Egg. Alas, it is located..." a lot. Hmm. I better bring this back to In Nomine or I'm in trouble. What if, instead of or in addition to Tethers forming because of events, certain sites could be used as Tethers by whoever held them? Maybe such a site was claimed by Lilith and was that first Tether to Hell used to spring Lucifer and pals. Certainly, the idea of locations either side could take by force and use would alter the tone of the war a lot. Or...perhaps these sites are ETHEREAL tethers. Not fueled by belief or any Word, just a natural occurence. Perhaps humans hold them now, or Beleth, or Blandine ... or else they may be a dirty little secret certain ethereals and David are sharing. We know David has some geomancy going on from his Superiors book writeup, unless I'm totally losing my mind... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:04:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. At 2:10 PM -0500 3/8/01, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 2:00 PM -0500 3/8/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Demons in our group call 'em Sparkies. >> >>(You know, "C'mere, boy! C'mere, Sparky! Sit! Heel!") >> >>I think that slang has crept in amongst irrevrent angels, too. > >Oh, you think? Yup. O:> >(I run a game that's been Lightning heavy the last couple of times. >The semi-Renegade Lilim calls them Sparkies. Now, everyone else seems >to. The Elohite should have stamped it out earlier. It's all his fault. Clearly. Now, if the Cherub of War is bribed with a battlesuit, I'm sure that he will go to calling them Jeanites, or even something more extravagant.... O:> > Their main contact's an Elohite who doesn't care, but now they're >with Millicent, and Millicent.... >Well, Millicent is Millicent. I'm sure they wouldn't be rude. Not to >Millicent.) Consider the Lilim.... - --Beth, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, arcangel@io.com 1 MMorganLP. Oooo! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:57:51 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > Consider the Lilim.... They toil not, neither do they spin... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 16:57:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Now, if the Cherub of War is bribed with a battlesuit, I'm > sure that he will go to calling them Jeanites, or even something > more extravagant.... O:> "Johanines"? (Pronounced "YO-ha-neenz.") This is the traditional adjective form for "John" ( = "Jean") in English. 'Course, back on the flip side, this invites calling them Jeanies or Johnnies. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:03 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> March 8, 2001 (ML) Moe wrote: > It all seems so simple, in the beginning: cruel, but > simple. > assassinating some of the most vocal opponents to the > nation of Israel. ... what Hell is really going to do > is wait until Heaven's committed its forces, then crash > a jetliner into Notre Dame. Somebody's infiltrated an > Indian chemical refinery, and now his fingers are on > the switches that will turn the entire Ganges River > toxic. ... an annual convention of the most influential > West Coast neopagans is going to suddenly realize that > their drinking water is absolutely drenched with LSD and > PCP! > OK, the pipe bombs and the viruses are real. But as > for the rest, Kobal's just bored. Now, this is a /worthwhile/ kind of demonic plot. Kobal understands the idea of tarnishing millions of souls (rather than wasting demon-years corrupting smaller numbers) plus damaging the mutual trust that gives Heaven an advantage. The only problem is that some of the information is almost Too Good; how did we find out about all these things? Dominic, in spite of being in charge of counter-intelligence, would never realise. Litheroy, on the other hand, might well listen to the brief, smile, and explain. > Perceptive GMs will wonder what the PC's roles will be > in all this. Rhodri would create a local crisis and lumber us with it. Given how long it takes us to figure out /real/ problems, we could chase our tails for weeks on a fake. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:06:50 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > >A good name for Jean's organization along those lines > >would be nice, too. > >Demons in our group call 'em Sparkies. > Sparky is also local slang for an electrical engineer (like Bones is for a doctor.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:30:26 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Wendigo - --- Cthulhu wrote: > Wendigoes > (The Defilers) I shudder to think what inspired this. Nice work, though. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:34:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> March 8, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > I wonder if anyone would actually ever dare to run > this, or whether I'm just indulging my old Paranoia > reflexes? :) Moe, you are an vicious, evil little man -- and I envy you intensely. 0;> This is a wonderful piece of work -- and with a little tweaking, it could even serve as a warmup for Kobal's Big Joke... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:34:40 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Re: Feng Shui, In Nomine, etc., I'd like to point out that *any* game can be a Munchkin Magnet, depending on the GM and on the players. In Nomine and Shadowrun, two of my favorite *role-playing* games, can both be run this way. Especially Shadowrun. My complaint about Feng Shui is that it was *designed* that way ... and unfortunately where I do most of my gaming you can't throw a rock without hitting a munchkin. (Mary, you'll find out ...) Ask me (privately) about my first In Nomine campaign. If the idea is to take In Nomine and move it into a different world, this I would find amusing. Take the aforementioned Shadowrun, for example. Consider the complications of that world. Then add angels, demons, and the War. Oo. I like this. I don't think I'd want to be the GM -- especially if I had to redesign the world's ancient history (Earthdawn) to fit In Nomine canon or something like it. Too much work. But if someone else wanted to do said work, I'd love to play in the game. Someone mentioned In Nomine: Paranoia, but I can only see this working if the PCs are demons. I think someone wrote up an In Nomine: Amber idea somewhere but I don't remember where. What other well-developed, interesting worlds do people know of that In Nomine would fit into? (In Nomine Deadlands?) Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:40:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Cleaning out the Unfinished Stuff Directory - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > This is not me. I dunno, you seem pretty Mercurian as far as I can tell... };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:42:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Is there a canonical (or just common usage) designator > for Jean's stuff? You know, the Heavenly version of > Vaputech. I assume "Jeantech" is too obvious. How about "Jeantronics," "Lightningtech," "Stormtech" or "Sparktech" (I like that last, it's catchy)? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:44:33 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > "R&D" stands for "Revelation and Development." Yowza! I bow to a superior (or Superior) idea! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:57:29 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Cleaning out the Unfinished Stuff Directory >He's just this guy. No, really. Actually, he's a pretty powerful angel, and a remarkably good fighter for a Mercurian. >Francis has a job, too, and it's not hanging around >Jaymiel's Cathedral. His job is to be on earth and >watch out for aspiring writers. She's lucky. She could have picked a Malakite. >thanks to Eli's walkabout, he and the >few other Servitors of Creation that weren't assigned >other Superiors have their hands full keeping the >remnants of their organization running smoothly. I'll bet the Triads of Judgement don't mess with *him* -- which, of course, means he's all the more valuable to Creation's organization. > If Hell ever captures Francis, they'll tear him apart >limb from limb - or, worse, try to use him as a >hostage. Why doesn't she spread the news on the street that the two of them have broken up? (Come to think of it, how do demons hear about things like this anyway -- the "Angels" section of *People*?) >She's also made >sure that the word on the street is, "Touch him, and >you'll think that The Order of The Eternal Sword are >wimps by the time I'm done with you." And she should add to this that the demons in question would have not only her, but Jean and possibly Eli to deal with. (I guess even celestials have challenging in-laws.) Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:59:44 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Well yes, any game can be Munchkinned. What confuses me as a GM is how can players who continuously abuse the rules enjoy a game? Take the Min/Maxed D&D character. How dull is that to play? The same old dice rolling and the same old resolution to every problem. I wonder if the players are more concerned with levelling than role playing. I just throw a copy of Diablo at any player who creates such a character and point them in the direction of my PC. *Everyone* has made the dead killy monster from Hell in any game just to see how it would work out. That's fine, the GM has every right to punish you mercilessly in every social situation (although in D&D they are a as common as hens teeth!) It confounds me to watch the same people time and again play different games with the same character concept. Be REALLY, REALLY good at *one* thing and suck at everything else.... but it doesn't matter because you can always kill something to get yourself out of it. Where is the fun in being the same thing.... that is why we roleplay, to get out of the normal life and into something else. Can someone please explain the mindset of the Muchkin to me. Besides drooling into their dice bag. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:06:55 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. The guys in my game refer to them as "Bright Lights" when talking about them positively, as in... "Oh yeah, Juriel, he's a Bright Light alright." Otherwise it is Xapdoctors. My players are quite fond of yelling "Engineering" Red Alert 1 style when one is about. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:13:37 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory From: "Janet Anderson" > > What other well-developed, interesting worlds do people know of that In > Nomine would fit into? (In Nomine Deadlands?) In Deadlands, Saminga, Beleth and Vapula have all entered an alliance, with Hatiphas assisting them. And although I know it's been done to UnDeath, an IN/World Of Darkness crossover has potential. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:36:30 -0800 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: IN> Please, no bashing! Feng Shui, D&D, Vampire, Macho Women With Guns... Just say no to bashing other game systems. It only starts flame wars. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:15:55 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Alex Liddell wrote: > It confounds me to watch the same people time and again play different games > with the same character concept. Be REALLY, REALLY good at *one* thing and > suck at everything else.... but it doesn't matter because you can always > kill something to get yourself out of it. Aaraon Allston, IIRC, wrote a really excellent article some years back about "The Ten Types of Roleplayers." One of them is "The Expert"; he wants his character to the best there is at something. Of course the Expert isn't always a killing machine; in an In Nomine context, an Expert could be a master artifact-maker, a Lilim deal-maker who has contacts with half the important people in the universe, an Ofanite "transport specialist," a Djinn detective, etc. The point is that a certain type of player likes to have their character be outstanding in their field and be respected for that. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, even if the character's chosen field is "beating people up." As a GM, you simply need to give the character opportunities to shine, while also presenting him with situations in which he needs help from his buddies. A pure munchkin who only wants fight scenes is tiresome, of course, but an "Expert"-RPer who doesn't mind non-combat situations as long as his character gets to kick ass when it's time to fight isn't necessarily a munchkin. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:17:55 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory Janet Anderson wrote: > What other well-developed, interesting worlds do people know of that In > Nomine would fit into? (In Nomine Deadlands?) In Nomine Nobilis. (http://www.amadan.org/nobilis.html) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:46:43 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Please, no bashing! >Feng Shui, D&D, Vampire, Macho Women With Guns... > >Just say no to bashing other game systems. It only starts flame wars. Only if those games are ready to stand on their own merits. A little debate on system comparrision is well worth it I think. Flame wars only precipitate if you have a die hard fanatic whose ego is thinner than rice paper on the list. Guys, there is no need to be nasty, just critical. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:21:37 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Had a thought. At 5:04 PM -0500 3/8/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >The Elohite should have stamped it out earlier. It's all his fault. There's nothing objectively wrong with a 'pet name.' It's common among most organizations, and reacting negatively would be taking emotions too far. Now, should it become a hinderance to operating effectiveness.... >Clearly. Now, if the Cherub of War is bribed with a battlesuit, I'm >sure that he will go to calling them Jeanites, or even something >more extravagant.... O:> [Mica, Mercurian of Lightning] And you know, if the Seneschal had wheels, he'd be a wheelbarrow. > > Their main contact's an Elohite who doesn't care, but now they're >>with Millicent, and Millicent.... >>Well, Millicent is Millicent. I'm sure they wouldn't be rude. Not to >>Millicent.) > >Consider the Lilim.... The Lilim is irreverent, not stupid. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:41:51 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> In a galaxy far far away... - --- -=|horsefly|=- wrote: [snip] > still, i don't see > Marc's view of Mammon as "grudge-match." more like > "threat to human trade > and Trade in general which simply must be done away > with." Marc's too perky > to hold grudges--that doesn't keep him from > bankrupting his foes, however. Oh, yeah, I know. I was just refering to the tendency of all the Superiors to have one or two Superiors on the other side who they focus most of their effort on. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 02:01:15 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory >Aaraon Allston, IIRC, wrote a really excellent article some years back >about >"The Ten Types of Roleplayers." I'd like to see this article. Was it in Pyramid? >an "Expert"-RPer who doesn't mind non-combat situations as long as >his character gets to kick ass when it's time to fight isn't necessarily a >munchkin. Oh, you've met my Cherub of Stone ... Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 21:25:14 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Dead men do tell tales > This was actually brought on by the bit in the writeup of > Adad that says the dissonance gained from being revealed goes away if > you kill the person who knows; the problem is that this might not > work... And, human souls have this pesky tendency to not stick > around on Earth waiting to be soul-killed. Well, if the soul ends up in Hell, Adad's people will deal with them. Demons have a lot more power over damned sould than they do over living ones. And if they end up in Heaven, Syth's people will ask them not to say anything... and this assumes a soul in Heaven doesn't opt to go up Jacob's Ladder to the Higher Heavens right away. -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:42:51 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory - -----Original Message----- From: Janet Anderson To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, March 08, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory >Re: Feng Shui, In Nomine, etc., I'd like to point out that *any* game can be >a Munchkin Magnet, depending on the GM and on the players. In Nomine and >Shadowrun, two of my favorite *role-playing* games, can both be run this >way. Especially Shadowrun. My complaint about Feng Shui is that it was >*designed* that way ... and unfortunately where I do most of my gaming you >can't throw a rock without hitting a munchkin. (Mary, you'll find out ...) >Ask me (privately) about my first In Nomine campaign. > >If the idea is to take In Nomine and move it into a different world, this I >would find amusing. Take the aforementioned Shadowrun, for example. >Consider the complications of that world. Then add angels, demons, and the >War. > >Oo. I like this. I don't think I'd want to be the GM -- especially if I >had to redesign the world's ancient history (Earthdawn) to fit In Nomine >canon or something like it. Too much work. But if someone else wanted to >do said work, I'd love to play in the game. Well, just assume that Elves, Dwarves, Orks and Trolls co-existed as Faerie Changelings in the days predating the Purity Crusade, but were nearly wiped out by Uriel's people, forcing them to hide in the Marches, while the Windlings, Tzkrangs and Obsidimen were killed off (earning Uriel a few stern looks from Janus, Jordi and David in the process). The Ethereal Spirits hang back in the Marches for the next few thousand years, when suddenly The Magic comes back to Earth, and the Marches upon up to release all the bottled-up Ethereals, causing a return of the spirits, a surge of new powerful magic-users, and a new generation of changelings. Both Heaven and Hell suspect either one another of having caused this, or suspect the Ethereals somehow figured out how to do that. But maybe it's just God deciding the world would be better off with the Magic back. Mammon takes advantage of the chaos and makes a coup in Shal-Mari, performing a Hostile Take-Over on both the local soul-trade and corporate activities on Earth, boosting his Word up until he becomes a Major Prince again. But instead of trying to kill off the competing Princes, he offers a special deal: an association to create a hellish corporation: Seven Sin Enterprises, lead by himself (Greed), Andrealphus (Lust), Nybbas (Sloth), Haagenti (Gluttony), Lillith (Pride), Furfur (Anger) and Kobal (Envy). This new Corporation of Princes quickly creates a shift in Hellish politics, away from the quest for Armageddon, and more towards a more prolonged form of conquest of Earth, by corrupting it's corporations and governments and slowly turning them towards a more hellish way of thinking. Lucifer and Kronos enjoy this new turn of events, so Asmodeus doesn't stop them. But Baal, Belial and Saminga decide to strike back with the persecution of the Native Americans, which leads to the dismemberment of the USA and Canada (Much to Malphas' delight). A new Demon Prince soon arises to help them out: Hexxus, Shedite Prince of Toxics, who begins recruiting Toxic Shamans and Spirits. In Heaven, the return of Magic and it's creatures causes a lot of chaos and arguments as well, but eventually the Celestials come to an agreement: The Ethereals are NOT to be hunted down again, unless they clearly make themselves enemies of Heaven. Mammon's ascension to the level of Major Prince brings Marc into the "War" camp, but utilising different tactics, such as fighting Mammon's agents in the courts and boardrooms. Blandine and Jordi, seeing the return of the Mythical Beasts, become more active in Celestial Politics, and Jean gets very frustrated by Humanity's sudden technological leap, but tries to make the best of a bad situation, and promotes Ork to the level of Archangel of The Matrix, to handle that problem. That's all I can think of right now... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 02:51:27 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> My "Munchkin Magnet" theory >That's all I can think of right now... > >-Exit the LoneWolf > You're hired! Especially the Shedite Prince of Toxics. Maybe a different name, though, like "Prince of Poisons." Then again, if Furfur can be the Prince of Hardcore ... As for Orc, he must be approaching Archangel status in *this* IN universe, let alone the Shadowrun one. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 21:12:50 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Please, no bashing! Alex Liddell wrote: > Only if those games are ready to stand on their own merits. Subjective. > A little debate> on system comparrision is well worth it I think. Why? > Flame wars only> precipitate if you have a die hard fanatic whose ego is thinner than rice> paper on the list. No, they precipitate whenever one person says "X sucks" and someone else happens to like X. It's one thing to criticize settings in the context of discussing what you like and don't like (i.e., "I prefer In Nomine to the World of Darkness because I don't like a setting where humans are irrelevant and supernatural beings really control everything and there's no good reason why they even stay hidden...."), or mechanics likewise. But just saying "I hate Feng Shui; don't do an In Nomine conversion because Feng Shui sucks" is nothing more than flamebait. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:33:33 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Moving silently > And, of course, one can always peer at the thing and go, "Weapons skills > are supposed to be specialized, but Driving isn't? Feh, they're all > unspecialized." Run with it. Be free. Oh, I have. And it looks like Feng Nomine is rapidly becoming do-able... Anyone want to collaborate with me on this? I need someone to A) bounce ideas off and B) nag me when I start slacking. - -- Casca, wondering who'd be deadlier: an Ofanite of War with Both Guns Blazing, Carnival of Carnage and Lightning Reload cranked to obscene levels, or a Malakite of the Sword with a Signature Weapon and mastery of the Paths of the Leaping Storm, Hands of Light and Sharpened Scales....yeesh. "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:35:02 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: Re:IN> No Feng Shui-In Nomine, please From: "-=|horsefly|=-" > i'm just interjecting a hypothesis, but i think Eric has plans for using Feng Shui's mechanics in In Nomine's setting. he's free to correct me if i'm wrong, but i for one think it would be stellar (and i think both games have their merits, thankyouverymuch). Hypothesis correct, my friend. Wanna get in on the action? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2100 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.