From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Mar 14 00:28:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12786 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:28:21 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA23895 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:33:14 -0600 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:33:14 -0600 Message-Id: <200103140633.AAA23895@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2105 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2105 In this digest: Re: IN> IN Tarot Re: IN> IN Tarot Re: IN> IN Tarot Re: IN> IN Tarot Re: IN> Cleaning out the Unfinished Stuff Directory Re: IN> Re: IN Tarot IN> IN Tarot Re: IN> Re: IN Tarot IN> March 11, 2001 (ML) IN> March 12, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> March 12, 2001 (ML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:10:51 -0800 (PST) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> IN Tarot > _My_ Tarot cards generally have the lion's mouth being gently held > _shut_ by the woman... (Well, except for the Black Tarot and the Cat People > Tarot.) Cat People Tarot! Haven't seen that one in a while... No matter - the symbolism is that of a "soft" energy working on a "hard" energy, to control or modify it. Novalis gesturing, the mouth(s) of the Beast wound 'round with vines and flowers... it's all there... Owen ===== "...An' then... then I'm gonna get *medieval* on his arse." "How, exactly?" "I thought maybe a maypole," said Mr. Tulip reflectively, "An' then a display of country dancing, land tillage under the three-field system, several plagues, and if my --ing hand ain't too tired, the invention of the --ing horse collar." -- Terry Pratchett, The Truth __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:15:25 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Tarot From: "O. S. Kerr" > > But the point of The Tower as a card is a catastrophic change. The Fall of > Beleth, and the continuing rift between the First Lovers, are both good > candidates for this kind of image. I like the image of the Tower as divided down the center, with the reversed side being Beleth's tower, and the other being Blandine's. The base of one side's tower would be by the peak of the other. I need to develop some art talent, so I can sketch it out... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:28:20 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> IN Tarot > > I think we should be concentrating on traditional tarot imagry if > > we're going to make this an effective Tarot. The Tower isn't simply a > > tower, it's a tower destroyed by a flash of lightning, evocotive of > > the Tower of Babel. So, I think Jean is the obvious choice here, with > > lightning bringing down works humanity is not capable of handling > > (which is as good an explanation of Babel as anything.) > >But the point of The Tower as a card is a catastrophic change. The Fall of >Beleth, and the continuing rift between the First Lovers, are both good >candidates for this kind of image. > >I like the half-and-half towers idea... > >And this is also a good idea for the Lovers... pre-Fall Blandine and >Beleth. > >Owen The two towers fit well for The Moon . . . after all, there are two towers on the Rider-Waite tarot card. Perhaps The Moon might be used to represent the Marches as well as the beginning solider . . . (both would refer to the budding powers of knowledge, one through "psychic" awareness gained through dreams, the other to Symphonic awareness . . . - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:51:09 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> IN Tarot - -----Original Message----- From: Perry Lloyd To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 4:36 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN Tarot >> > I think we should be concentrating on traditional tarot imagry if >> > we're going to make this an effective Tarot. The Tower isn't simply a >> > tower, it's a tower destroyed by a flash of lightning, evocotive of >> > the Tower of Babel. So, I think Jean is the obvious choice here, with >> > lightning bringing down works humanity is not capable of handling >> > (which is as good an explanation of Babel as anything.) >> >>But the point of The Tower as a card is a catastrophic change. The Fall of >>Beleth, and the continuing rift between the First Lovers, are both good >>candidates for this kind of image. >> >>I like the half-and-half towers idea... >> >>And this is also a good idea for the Lovers... pre-Fall Blandine and >>Beleth. >> >>Owen > >The two towers fit well for The Moon . . . after all, there are two towers >on the Rider-Waite tarot card. Perhaps The Moon might be used to represent >the Marches as well as the beginning solider . . . (both would refer to the >budding powers of knowledge, one through "psychic" awareness gained through >dreams, the other to Symphonic awareness . . . Nice imagery for the Moon, Perry. As for the Tower, if it represents Catastrophic Change, how about using the most catastrophic change of all as the scene? Replace the Tower with "The Fall", a card depicting Lucifer fighting Michael, on the backdrop of Heaven in flames, with a main tower falling nearby. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2001 15:50:38 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Cleaning out the Unfinished Stuff Directory From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" <> i'm definitely intrigued by Litheroy, but i'm also hoping Janus gets some serious attention. now that Valefor's been given an origin independent of Janus, i want to see some further explorations of Janus' independence from Valefor, with the barest hints that he might be fooling all of Hell at the same time as being an Archangel. as well, i'd love to see Oannes' write-up, and neveryoumind that he's been dead roughly 20K years. "Next to hydrogen, stupidity is the most common element in the universe." --Harlan Ellison ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2001 16:00:08 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN Tarot On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 05:32:07 Perry Lloyd wrote: >Though an arguement could be made that the deck is merely the tool, a focus >as it were. If one can use bones or tea leaves, why not a gaming deck? indeed. as someone has already made reference to the Mage deck, i'll merely say i've had mine some six or so years, and used it anywhere from sparingly to frequently in that time (there were periods where i couldn't go an hour at work without a coworker asking me to do a reading for them...). >(Well, I could tell why NOT to use a Parker Brothers ouji board - those >things are tainted with *something* nasty) oy, that's as close to the infernal as i ever may have blatantly gone! if ever there was a joint project between Vapula and Kobal, PB's ouji board is it . >Then again, if you don't believe that sort of thing, it probably doesn't >matter. after one or two uses, anyone would become a believer! -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> IN Tarot My only comment along these lines is that Pagan Publishing did something like this in one of its Delta Green supplements (a King in Yellow deck). It'd make for a good campaign seed concept*, I'd think. Moe *For someone _else_ to do. Frankly, my interest in Tarot begins and ends with 'look at the pretty pictures'. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:03:54 -0500 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN Tarot >>The first rule of wielding a tarot deck is to take it about as >>seriously as, well, wielding a tarot deck. C'mon, you can't read >>off a GAMING deck anyway. :) > >Though an arguement could be made that the deck is merely the tool, a focus >as it were. If one can use bones or tea leaves, why not a gaming deck? Ehh, don't go offering me a Tarot deck; the last time I let somebody do a reading, the results were... rather weird. Of course, if it was reflecting me maybe that was my natural twisted sense of humor coming out :). >(Well, I could tell why NOT to use a Parker Brothers ouji board - those >things are tainted with *something* nasty) I swear the one I had "broke"; the pointer had all the motion of a piece of cardboard. Guess the spirits were trying to tell you "the number you have called has been disconnected...". You know, Kobal just HAS to have experimented with providing a real hotline to the spirits (damned ones, naturally, but that just adds to the fun). Or maybe a Ouji board relic with the Celestial Song of Tongues and an demon on the other end providing... interesting advice to users. For real joy, the demon would be a Djinn attuned to the board as a punishment detail by Dark Humor (No better source for advice than the band that absolutely prides itself on not giving a damn about anybody else's problems :)). - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 11, 2001 (ML) This one was like pulling teeth - and I wanted it to be more than a MacGuffin. Alas, the cost's too high. So it goes. :) Moe Amphora of Dionysus This ceramic amphora is unique - for the moment. There's more than a few celestials looking for it, though. The Amphora of Dionysus essentially turns water into wine - wholesale. Using a variant of the Corporeal Song of Succor, the artifact will change up to 10 gallons of water into extremely good wine for every 2 Essence spent. The Essence will be automatically subtracted from the artifact's user (who doesn't need to be able to control his or her Essence, or even know what Essence is). The wine will turn back into water after six hours: as a beneficial side effect, this means that a hangover will not occur. Unfortunately, there's an even greater inimical side effect. The relic can also 'bestow' the Song of Bedlam (see separate entry). The Song of Succor variant actually only costs 1 Essence: the other is used to fuel the Song of Bedlam, which will take effect on a random drinker of the wine. As the Song of Bedlam requires 3 Essence to work, the effect isn't going to be immediately obvious - but when it does finally go off, the results can be messy... Relic/6 (Corporeal Song of Succor variant) 18pt Useable by anyone 6pt Relic/3 (Song of Bedlam) 6pt Useable by anyone 3pt Both Relics are Self-powered 0pt Vulnerable: Celestial Artifact destroyed -4pt Convenience: Bulky -1pt Activation time: 1 Hour -3pt Visibility: Automatically Detectable -3pt No Essence Capacity for Succor -2pt Total: 20 ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:08:15 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 12, 2001 (ML) Does anything ever really die? Bodies or vessels may be destroyed, minds may be obliterated, and 'stable configurations of Forces' may be disrupted, but nobody has ever split a Force (although Vapula's sure that he's worked out the trick this time). Of course, Forces may be recycled, and often are, and the general consensus is that the act of recycling means that Humpty Dumpty, indeed, may never be put back together again. Something just gets lost in the process. Some people find it impossible to accept that. Collectors come in many flavors, from every side of the War. They have many motives for their obsession, but all of them want somebody back, for whatever reason (love is a common theme, but so is a thirst for justice and/or revenge). Most Collectors never get past the first, almost impossible step of somehow managing to identify, locate and acquire a lost entity's specific Forces, of course. Those that do are faced with the hopeless task of isolating and nurturing the strands of a specific soul to the point where the lost entity is returned to the Symphony. There's never been a documented success - but Collectors are universally certain that they'll be the first. If nothing else, it's something to do to fill up the lonely years. Needless to say, some ethereal pantheons are very interested in this practice. Isis is probably the most famous Collector: it is rumored that she has nearly collected all of Osiris' Forces by now, and is spending her free time practicing by trying to reconstruct some of the Forgotten Gods. It's also rumored that she's aided in this by the nearly-faded Babylonian ethereal Marduk, who has managed to keep the remains of his lost pantheon safe for thousands of years. Oddly, neither Heaven nor Hell forbids or even discourages the practice of Collection (although it's treated, at best, as a somewhat macabre hobby). This may be due to the fact that the average Collector is actually quite good at treating celestial damage. A Collector, thanks to his or her specialized study, has the equivalent of a variant of the Medicine skill, which may only be used to help recover Soul Hits (add the CD of a successful roll to the number of Soul Hits recovered per week). While the Celestial Song of Healing is faster, treatment by a Collector does not cause disturbance: this is can be useful at times. In short, there are pragmatic reasons to permit Collectors to persist in their obsession. Or, perhaps, Superiors permit the practice because one never knows. Perhaps someone will succeed where everyone else has failed, and bring someone back from the ultimate death. Everybody misses somebody. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:26:35 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> March 12, 2001 (ML) *shudder* Moe, you sicken me. The flow of thoughts i had on reading that last line... Forget Uriel, what if Blandine kills off Beleth... she gets to have her lover back as she was... Or lucifer, killed by michael brought back as the shining one... Keep up the feindishly good work Could this be the ultimate secret to redemption? kill em, bring em back stronger, faster better than before?.... >Or, perhaps, Superiors permit the practice because one >never knows. Perhaps someone will succeed where >everyone else has failed, and bring someone back from >the ultimate death. > >Everybody misses somebody. >moe Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2105 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.