From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Mar 20 16:35:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23116 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:35:33 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA30687 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:40:44 -0600 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:40:44 -0600 Message-Id: <200103202240.QAA30687@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2116 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, March 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2116 In this digest: Re: IN> Mini-Choirs Re: IN> Curiosity about the list IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam Re: IN> Mini-Choirs Re: IN> An Ethereal Spirit idea Re: IN> Superior Roles Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam Re: IN> Superior Roles Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam Re: IN> Re: Moe's little ditty Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Re: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) IN> Character points for oaths? Re: IN> Character points for oaths? Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) IN> In Nomine Sluggy:Torg Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam Re: IN> Songs of Rabbit Physics Re: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas Re: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Re: IN> Character points for oaths? Re: IN> Songs of Rabbit Physics IN> Rabbits of... Re: IN> Re: Moe's little ditty Re: IN> Songs of Rabbit Physics Re: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:24:32 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Mini-Choirs - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: IN> Mini-Choirs >Rolland Therrien wrote: > >> Mini-Lillim are extremely rare, however, and no one knows how they >> come about. Rumor has it a Lillim has to Geas a Malakite to bind >> his forces with hers, however. > >It sounds like rumor is forgetting the essentially asexual nature >of celestials, even Lilim. Any two Lilim would do, no matter what >gender they habitually used. Of course, there still might be no >Mini-Lilim. If it takes two celestials of the same choir/band >*and* a Superior of that choir/band, as Beth stipulated, then >no can do; there are no Lilim Superiors (at least in canon); >Lilith herself isn't a Lilim, she's human. Actually, that's a reference to the unwritten fact that Malakim and Lillim are almost always paired together in In Nomine fiction. There are constant mentions, even on this List, of Lillim getting crushes on Malakim, for exemple. I just decided to take it one step further... >> Demons of Lust are also infamous for creating Mini-Bands to satisfy >> *Ahem* "other" needs... > >These must be the masochistic demons of Lust, who like getting >Force-stripped. (Becoming a parent, for a celestial, is more >like becoming a mother than becoming a father, i.e. painful.) Uh, I was trying to be a bit darker here, and suggest that Demons of Lust who create Mini-Bands of themselves are mostly doing it for the chance to perfom pedophilia on their own level of existance... Then again, maybe you're just joking around, and I didn't get it... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:44:21 GMT From: daiv@cruzio.com Subject: Re: IN> Curiosity about the list > How many people on this list have met each other in person? I semi regularly play TFOS with Phillip Des Jardins, though i doubt that either of our names mean much to anyone... I rarely post, and he is really new to the list. For that matter, though, if anyone remembers 'steelangel', aka abaxas shedite of riots, aka Edward Tinsdale (whou used to post with some regularity) he also used to game with Phillip and I. Then he moved off to the wilds of Salinas, and has never been heard from again. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:15:21 GMT From: daiv@cruzio.com Subject: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam Okay, so lets play a little "what if" here... As I write this, I realize that i am trying (perhaps a little too hard) not to come off as politically incorrect or as an ignorant arab bashing idiot. So, let me start of by saying that I do not intend this as an attack on any religous beliefs of any one. My religous beliefs are nobody elses business. This is Just a Game, and the scenario and ideas i am questioning here are intended to reflect the Game. Any resemblance to real life is completely coincidental (and not damn likely, in any case... I have not even had my morning coffee). Got it? In either Fall of the Malakim, there is a write up of Khalid as the Prince of Fanatacism (whether he is a major or minor prince is not discussed. I would assume, however, that since he is just starting out, he is a minor prince for the moment. How fast that changes is... well, a good question). Now, currently (in canon), Khalid is an enthusiastic supporter of Islam. There is nothing to suggest that, had he fallen (or if he falls), he would suddenly stop supporting that religon. In IN, as in real life, followers of Islam are no more and no less inclined to be fanatical or violent than followers of any other religon (or so I assume; I have no actual proof of this statement other than some totally unscientific observations. So take that statement with as much of a grain of salt as you like). However, in IN, a Fallen Kalid, with the word of Fanaticism, who continued to support Islam, could have some impact on the mortal world. This would be the first instance of a Major power in hell having significant influence over a major religon in the mortal world, I believe. Personally, I can see that this would result in a significant rise in violent and terrorist acts performed in the name of Islam. Among other things, mortal soldiers who serve Khalid would not, intrinsically, know that he fell. And some of them would not especially care, If this resulted in him providing more suport for what the soldiers already wanted to do. On the other hand, going way out on a limb here, this might also have significant impact on Gabriel; she also had a hand in the formation of Islam, and might not take well to having the religon taken over by Fanatics. Just an idle thought. If you are inclined to flame me for this, then at least have the courtesy to send it to me directly and keep it off the list. - -Daiv Tech writer in service to Coffee. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:37:42 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mini-Choirs At 5:16 PM -0500 3/19/01, Rolland Therrien wrote: >Ok... Now, what about Hell's Mini-Bands? Little gardensnake-like Balseraphs >who make messes, then lie about it, tiny cub-like Djinn who leave their toys >laying around, but run over to grab them the moment you try to pick them >up... Heck, Iolanthe alone exemplifies the Impudite Mini-Band, doesn't she? She's not a _mini_-Band. Besides that her mommy is a Djinn (MINE!), she's most definitely got a lot of Essence-storage... >Mini-Lillim are extremely rare, however, and no one knows how they come >about. Truth be told, I'd think that if Lilith wanted to debase the fine art of Lilim creation, she could make a mini-Lilim anytime she wanted. But that's not canon myself. O:> (I'd think a lot of "mini-Bands" would be created at 7 Forces by a Prince and immediately Force-stripped down to whatever size the Prince felt was appropriate. The new "parents" could then cart off their 2-3 Force mini- kid, while the Prince reclaimed the Forces he'd used to fledge it. In that case, the "kid" wouldn't have to be a product of identical Bands, but could be whatever the Prince wanted it to be.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:40:52 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> An Ethereal Spirit idea > I can see a Destiny angel taking an interest in it, though not > because of its literary merit. It's a nice children's fantasy, > as is the second in the series (which is as far as I've read), > but there are lots of such books out there just as good. Well I never specified what caught his attention either... -:-) Of course there is the possibility of a Servitor of Yves being able to see potential in a book by reading it. Kind of a variation on the Divine Destiny Attunement. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:59:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles At 8:35 PM -0800 3/19/01, Kish wrote: >From: "Maurice Lane" >> They have a few seconds to realize who it is that >>they have angry at them before they are back at their >>Hearts. And in those few seconds, they gain some >>insight as to how much pain and terror they inflicted >>on the helpless. It gives them something to mull >>over as they heal. > ><> > >Does he have a choice? As far as I can tell, there is effectively no way to >soul-kill a celestial who won't step out of a Vessel, even for a Superior. Oh, this one is simple. Song of Seals (to prevent cries for help to the Prince, as well as celestial escape), and then you can start getting _inventive_ with your other Songs. Using the Celestial Song of Charm to drain their Will and then the Ethereal to drain their Intelligence till they're willing to go celestial because they think you'll let them go, maybe... Or you take them back to a Tether and give them to your Malakim for a chew toy. (Shedim are real easy. Song of Seals, knock out the host, and 30 minutes later, you've got a Shedite without a host. Squish.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:45:10 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam hmm...If Khalid Fell, would there be an Archangel of Islam to take his place? Certainly an interesting situation though. Especially because I was reading today about the Taliban's destruction of several Buddha statues and how they are claiming that the more isolated they are from the world, the more it proves that they have the true Islam. Sounds like Habballah manipulation from here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:50:44 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles > Oh, this one is simple. Song of Seals (to prevent cries for help to the > Prince, as well as celestial escape), and then you can start getting > _inventive_ with your other Songs. Using the Celestial Song of Charm > to drain their Will and then the Ethereal to drain their Intelligence > till they're willing to go celestial because they think you'll let them > go, maybe... You know, I really have to break down and by Liber Canticorum. I had no clue about this Song. > Or you take them back to a Tether and give them to your Malakim for a > chew toy. The very image is amusing. "Here boys! Look what I got you! Sit...sit...and GO GET IT!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:00:05 EST From: Galen Silversmith Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam > From: Cameron McCurry > hmm...If Khalid Fell, would there be an Archangel of Islam to take his place? Gabriel might have tried too take Khalid's place, but she's not exactly connected to the outside much, and is bitter about the entire thing. Her senchal might (depending on your campaign/setting) try to take the yoke and make a bid for archangelhood. But those aren't overly likely. Yves or Lawrence might try to take divine leadership for Islam, as well, but Lawrence would have problems with the Xianity thing, and religion doesnt seem like Yves thing, in the long term. But no other religion has an Archangel of , just patrons. No reason to assume Islam would get one either. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:26:54 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Moe's little ditty >OK, I've snagged FallenSeraph's and Michael Walton's >(both of which were cool). Who's next? Whats missing? I'll happily have a go at some more. - -FallenSeraph ^v^ ICQ - 110193631 ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon and his angels fought, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:7-8 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:36:09 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam - -----Original Message----- From: Galen Silversmith To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 1:12 PM Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam >> From: Cameron McCurry >> hmm...If Khalid Fell, would there be an Archangel of Islam to take his place? > >Gabriel might have tried too take Khalid's place, but she's not exactly >connected to the outside much, and is bitter about the entire thing. Her >senchal might (depending on your campaign/setting) try to take the yoke and >make a bid for archangelhood. But those aren't overly likely. Yves or >Lawrence might try to take divine leadership for Islam, as well, but >Lawrence would have problems with the Xianity thing, and religion doesnt >seem like Yves thing, in the long term. > >But no other religion has an Archangel of , just patrons. No >reason to assume Islam would get one either. Technically speaking, Khalid ain't the Archangel of Islam, either. As Archangel of Faith, his responsibilities include ANYONE who has Faith in God, be they Muslim, Christian, or even some Buddhists. He just happens to prefer the Islamic religion over others, much like Laurence prefers Christianity (Catholics the most) over other religions. The relationship between Laurence and Khalid over using Christianity or Islam to lead the Faithful humans to Heaven is more like an argument between two Unix-based programmers to decide whether or not to use RedHat or Linux to format their company system with. They both agree the job has to be done, they both appreciate one another's imput, and they both agree that either software configuration works. It's just that each one finds more value in one software over the other. And they both agree that Nybbas and Andrealphus' own plans for making a marketing based religion will only bring sorrow and despair to the religious and not-so religious Humans, since anything conceived mostly with Marketing in mind can only become a big seller, but a terrible product. Geez, I didn't even intend to use so many "User Friendly" references... = P - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:47:02 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam OK, allow me to amend my last statement in light of recent feedback. If Khalid Fell, would another patron of Islam take his place? And I was under the impression that the feelings of Laurence and Khalid to each other were a bit more hostile. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:02:07 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:35:29 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles <> >Does he have a choice? As far as I can tell, there >is effectively no way to soul-kill a celestial who >won't step out of a Vessel, even for a Superior. > >I could be wrong, of course. No, I think that you're right. Let's fix that, shall we? ;) Song of "OK, _Now_ I'm Pissed" (Celestial) When you're a Superior, you can call something anything you blessed well like. Use of this Song can either force someone to manifest in celestial form - or prevent someone already in celestial form from leaving that state. In either case, the target and the performer must engage in a Contest of Wills: should the target lose, he, she or it is forced to manifest/maintain their celestial form for the next minute. Should the performer of the Song lose, he, she or it may not use this Song again for the same amount of time. Successful use of this Song also prevents the target from leaving the current plane. Yes, this means that, if a Superior uses this Song on a regular celestial and/or ethereal, the non-Superior is going to automatically fail unless he, she or it rolls a favorable Intervention. Superior/Superior Will contests can be ... interesting. Also, humans are never affected by this Song, incidentally. This Song isn't listed as Restricted (every Superior on both sides knows it. _Every_ Superior), but being gifted with it is a serious matter: it's a hint that your boss may just consider you worthy of becoming an Archangel/Prince some day... Duration: 1 minute Range: Line of Sight Essence Cost: 1/2 the total number of Forces of the target entity (round up). Same cost to maintain. Degree of Disturbance: the CD. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:08:34 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:34:00 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) > >Song of Birthdays (Corporeal) > Neat one, Jo ... and a fun thing to build a relic around, a la that old Heinlein story. Who wants to do the Ethereal Song? I mean, I will, if nobody else does, but it's more fun this way. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:09:25 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Reading this, I realized that this song could have an interesting variant. At 11:02 AM 3/20/01 -0800, you wrote: >Song of "OK, _Now_ I'm Pissed" (Celestial) Yes, this means that, if a Superior uses this Song on a regular celestial and/or ethereal, the non-Superior is going to automatically fail unless he, she or it rolls a favorable Intervention. Superior/Superior Will contests can be ... interesting. And when anyone uses this on a human... ...well, the results from humans are why this Song is used very, very carefully. Observed reactions have ranged anywhere from nothing at all to instant death, as the (very, very confused) soul is forcibly ejected from the body. There is at least one celestial who claims that in one instance, this Song effectively transsubstantiated a human into an angel, although these rumors are usually taken with the celestial's weight in grains of salt. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:14:03 -0600 From: Matthew Cutter Subject: IN> Character points for oaths? Maybe this is covered in the main book, but I can't find it. Would Malakim receive bonus character points for extra oaths taken during character creation? If so, how many? - -Matt C. Matthew C. Cutter Support Analyst Epicor Classic Support mcutter@epicor.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:19:18 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Character points for oaths? At 01:14 PM 3/20/01 -0600, you wrote: >Maybe this is covered in the main book, but I can't find it. I think it's in the APG. Unfortunately, I have nothing but Superiors 3 with me, so I can't back that up. ;) >Would Malakim receive bonus character points for extra oaths taken during >character creation? If so, how many? I believe it's 2 points per Oath. Just remember that oaths have to be cleared by the GM. "I will never tango while in the Himalayas" really won't cut it (although now that I think about it, it makes an interesting Cuchulainn-style hook). - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:27:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Just a note that the new Song is, I think, a bit of a canon-breaker. (Doesn't mean it's bad, just that it's non-canonical.) If I recall the GMG correctly, even Superiors cannot casually destroy lesser celestials protected by vessels. It seems to me that this Song would allow such casual destruction. Thus, it would slightly increase the Superiors' already-immense power relative to PCs. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:38:04 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> In Nomine Sluggy:Torg My final contribution.. Torg (Potential) Soldier of Lightning Torg and Riff have been best friends since childhood. While Riff concerned himself with ripping things apart and making them work, Torg focused on programming computers and playing games. His interests led him to webdesign and he struck out on his own to start his own business. He and Riff moved into the same apartment building and Torg began to take in clients. Torg's life has not been as quiet and mundane as he expected though. Riff is always showing off his new inventions and taking his friend along on new adventures. One particularly hair raising escapade saw Torg land in Hell, in an obscure Principality known as the Dimension of Pain. The time he spent there exposed him to Celestial energies that most people would have gone mad from exposure to. Torg was too clueless to realize how bad things were. He simply dealt with it by spontaneously earning an extra Force just before he escaped. As a person, Torg is quite oblivious. He's aware of the supernatural menace in the world, but spends more of his time worrying about his floundering web design business. He's very kind hearted though and able to deal with people easily. Jean took him in as a Soldier and keeps tabs on him through the Angel of Networks (Torg is quite often on-line when he isn't dimension hopping, facing being turned into a vampire, or racing frantically to the store to get Bun Bun some produce). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:32:58 GMT From: daiv@cruzio.com Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Khalid and Islam > >> hmm...If Khalid Fell, would there be an Archangel of Islam to take his > place? > Technically speaking, Khalid ain't the Archangel of Islam, either. As > Archangel > of Faith, his responsibilities include ANYONE who has Faith in God, be they > Muslim, Christian, or even some Buddhists. Khalid is a great example of how an individual word bound angel chooses to excercise and promote the word that they have been given. Khalids word is Faith. Not "Faith in God", not "Faith in One Deity", etc. Just Faith. By definition, if he choose to, he could have a lot more influence over all religons (even Satanism, since that is, technically, a faith, right? Unless you think that Lucifer makes a practice of manifesting before mortals, and proving his power on a regular basis...(which would make for an interesting situation, but thats another topic for another day)). Any time an individual acts on belief that is not supported by first hand observation, then they are acting on faith, in some way (this is taking the most literal and broad interpretation of the Word, of course). Khalid, however, chooses to focus his word more than that. In theory, he could be getting essence from all of the above instances of people practicing the Word of Faith. However, instead, he devotes most of his time and energy to the practioners of Islam, first and foremost. In a very real way, he has chosen not only to promote one faith as truth, he has chosen to Practice one Faith as truth. He is Muslim, himself, and that colors his word a lot. But that does not change the Word. Faith is Faith. His excercise of it (and how he does so in your campaign) can vary a lot. Look at it this way... He has taken a huge word, and made it, in a sense, smaller (smaller than it could be). This is, in a lot of ways, very much the opposite of what Novalis has done, by taking a relatively small word, and making it huge (she is an Archangel; by definition, her word is huge). Just a thought. Hmmm... I wonder if Novalis has thought about sponsoring Buddism? I know only a very little about the religon and practice of it, but what i do know indicates that there a match there, if she wanted to do it. - -Daiv Tech writer in service to coffee. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:59:14 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Songs of Rabbit Physics >Come to think of it, who would come up with these relatively "useless" >Songs in IN (for a canon example of this, the ornamental Numinous Corpus >Songs)? Ornamental NC, useless? Enh. You could call the entire cosmetics industry useless too, then; sometimes, people want to look good, or funky, or whatnot, and there are people willing to work at it, and then get paid, to let them. However, there are alternatives to spending years and years producing a "useless" Song. 1.) Virtuoso variants on known Songs. This is probably where a lot of the Ornamental NC come from to begin with, although some Lust Servitors have probably spent the effort on a few. 2.) Failed Song research. "Well, I was trying to come up with a Song that makes things explosive. You know, just subject to sparks and open flames and stuff." "And did it work?" "Not exactly." *sings* *nearby object produces a bright, permanent, indelible "Warning -- Explosive" sign on all sides* "Still, it's in the Library now if anyone wants to find it." >-- >Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net > >"But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and >Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* > --Vampire theatre William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:36:56 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) >Who wants to do the Ethereal Song? I mean, I will, if >nobody else does, but it's more fun this way. :) Song of Birthdays (Ethereal) Cost: 6 Essence Disturbance: 5 The Ethereal Song of Birthdays returns the date of a being's earliest consciously accessible memory. Of course, this requires consciously accessible memory in the first place, so it measures some degree of sentience -- although there's doubtless an exception somewhere in the Symphony. At any rate, for most humans, this will return something between the age of 2 and 4, for angels it will generally give the date of their original creation, and for demons it may be the time when some nameless demonling got its first Ethereal Force. Its greatest use may be as a diagnostic tool for Ethereals, where it can tell whether or not an Ethereal is something that can be reasoned with on any level, or is unstable or a preprogrammed dream fragment -- if the Ethereal isn't reasonably sentient, the Song will fail. >===== >Liber Licentiae Moeticae: >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:34:54 -0600 From: Matthew Cutter Subject: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas OK, suppose you're creating a Free Lilim. Would you allow the player to buy off some of the Lilim's starting Geas with character points? If so, would you use the 3 pts/Level of Discord, or the Pts/Level of Geas from Fall of the Malakim?? - -Matt C. Matthew C. Cutter Support Analyst Epicor Classic Support mcutter@epicor.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:13:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas At 3:34 PM -0600 3/20/01, Matthew Cutter wrote: >OK, suppose you're creating a Free Lilim. Would you allow the player to buy >off some of the Lilim's starting Geas with character points? No. Why not, you ask? Simple. A Free Lilim reports to no one master, unlike every other kind of celestial. This means that if you had one who had no Geases upon her, she'd be absolute heck to GM unless the player was really easy to motivate. (Basically, doing something like that is a real munchkin potential, in a kind of skew way.) However, I would permit the Geases to be moved around -- she's maybe used up some of Mom's, but she's gotten equivalent ones owed to other Princes or her siblings. (I suggest Princes, since they're more likely to be able to show up unexpectedly, but you never know what could happen down a chain of the sisterhood. "Look, I just got some favors called in by Jody and Cly, and I can't be in two places at once, so I'm calling in a favor from _you_ to go to the airport and meet this guy and show him around town...") And then there was the first character I ever designed, who owed nine _years_ of Geases, in return for not being able to be invoked by certain icky Words. (I knew I was going to be doing her in an angel-game, and therefore wanted to hedge my bets a _little_. Little did I know that she'd get involved in the destruction of a Vapulan Tether... When it turns out that she's _not_ protected from one of her Geases being acquired by Vapulans. Oops.) However, it's your game, and if you think that would be okay, then yeah, 3 points per level of Geas removed. The FotM stats are what a Geas of that level _buys_, not how much it costs to remove it. What, you thought Hell would be _fair?_ - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:18:42 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) At 11:02 AM -0800 3/20/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:35:29 -0800 >From: "Kish" >Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles > ><> > >>Does he have a choice? As far as I can tell, there >>is effectively no way to soul-kill a celestial who >>won't step out of a Vessel, even for a Superior. >> >>I could be wrong, of course. > >No, I think that you're right. > >Let's fix that, shall we? (What, like the Corporeal Song of Banishing (Secret; known by Asmodeus, Beleth, Blandine, Jordi, and Laurence)?) Actually, I just realized the other trick that Superiors have, and only Superiors. Essence and Force manipulation. With a little work, surely a Superior could "unravel" a vessel, no? Clearly this takes just a little work, since a Superior in a hurry merely vessel-kills foolish opponents. However, should one _not_ be in a hurry.... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:24:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Character points for oaths? At 1:14 PM -0600 3/20/01, Matthew Cutter wrote: >Maybe this is covered in the main book, but I can't find it. > >Would Malakim receive bonus character points for extra oaths taken during >character creation? If so, how many? No, they don't. (Unless you're playing GURPS IN, where the total Code of Honor would be calculated by the GM according to how restrictive it was, and priced accordingly.) Malakim either take extra oaths because they feel they need to, to erase shame or because it seemed like a good idea at the time (i.e., the player wanted the extra roleplaying hooks), or to erase dissonance, as per the Angelic Player's Guide. (Two oaths removes one note of dissonance, which is where EDG probably got the "2" number in his head.) [If anyone finds a page-ref to prove me wrong, please do. O:> ] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:14:43 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Songs of Rabbit Physics - --- Amanda Kilgore wrote: > Songs of Rabbit Physics I can see it now... IN: Watership Down! "All of Heaven is your enemy, Demon Prince with a thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will soul-kill you... but first they must catch you." ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:17:10 -0500 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: IN> Rabbits of... As promised, Celestial Rabbits. No, it's not nearly as good as Hamsters, but I go with what I know... which is rabbits. It's fluff, have a good laugh. ________________ Rabbits of... Angelic: Rabbits serving Heaven generally participate in the battle against the forces of Meanness, in their own furry way. Blandine: Fall asleep and enter the Marches instantly, at will. Christopher: Draw fascinated children to them, to pet and feed them and generally lavish them with the attention every rabbit deserves. David: Gather in large groups to dig intricate tunnels in soil, stone, and clothes conveniently left on the floor. Dominic: Observe, then make nibble marks in a large book. Eli: Shed off a pile of fur which soon becomes a new rabbit. Gabriel: Can manifest claws of glowing green fire, and smite the Mean. Janus: Move very, very quickly, ignoring gravity when it becomes inconvenient. Jean: Defeat the technically-inclined among the Mean by chewing through critical wires. Jordi: Work tirelessly to free rabbits from Vaputech and human laboratories, and human homes where they are kept in small cages instead of roaming the house. Khalid: Are very, very loyal. Laurence: Pose on elevated surfaces such as old telephone books looking proud, and challenging Mean things to mortal nap-based combat. Litheroy: Know that Armageddon will come eventually, so why not hand over that fresh cilantro now? Marc: Look at a person and know just how much cuteness it will take to make them give in and hand over produce. Michael: Are vicious fighters, with tooth, claw, and head-butting. Not to mention belly-flopping onto a snoozing person from two feet up. Michael refuses to comment about the nibble-marks on the handles of his axes. Novalis: Keep gardens neat and trimmed… to the ground. Yves: Pose on top of books looking wise. Demonic: Infernal Rabbits are relatively rare. It took a few centuries for Hell to accept how something so Cute could serve their purposes. They’re still learning. Andrealphus: Well, rabbits do have a certain reputation... Asmodeus: Find their way into the darnedest places, and watch... and watch... and watch... Baal: Infantry nibblers. Also used as cannon fodder. (Baal does not appreciate references to Monty Python.) Beleth: Enter the Marches at will, to roam the dreams of others and twist them into nightmares. Belial: Two words: Boiling Bunny. Fleurity: Eat leafy green… plants… then "Dude, have you ever, like, considered your paw? Whoa." Furfur: You really don't want to know. Haagenti: Eat produce. And rabbit pellets. And hay. And wood. And... Kobal: Allow themselves to be pulled out of hats, then pee all over the "magician." Kronos: Infiltrate human homes and guide them towards their Fate. Malphas: Influence arguments over which breed is best for various purposes, such as showing, house pets, breeding, etc. Mammon: Hoarde all the toys they can find Nybbas: Are seen on television, especially around Easter... Saminga: You thought Bunnicula was fiction. Valefor: Well, who would suspect a cute little bunny of filching the produce out of the fridge when you were laughing at the Cadbury ad on the television? Vapula: Tend to end up as test subjects. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:22:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Moe's little ditty - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > OK, I've snagged FallenSeraph's and Michael Walton's > (both of which were cool). Who's next? What, did you think I was done? A date with a Wheel could make anyone feel That the courtship is moving too fast. Their lunatic style is hectic and wild And the romance is too good to last. But give them a whirl and your goose will be cooked, All those who have tried it assure me they're hooked, But do they smoke after? They never have looked But they'll light up your extra-large bed.* A Djinn is a grouch and they all tend to slouch But their apathy's only a mask. They claim they don't care but they let down their hair When they're finally done with a task. But evenings of passion for them quickly pall And once they are finished they'll turn to the wall Or leave you a'crying (and never will call) All alone in your extra-large bed. A Pachadite fling is a frightening thing, Not the sort of love I choose to seek. They make a connection with glowing affection Then follow with scathing critique. They'll woo you with flowers and candy and song And shower caresses to last the night long Then tell you in detail each thing you did wrong While they're still in your extra-large bed. *I am _not_ responsible for this -- somebody else brought up Ofanim and friction! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:24:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Songs of Rabbit Physics - --- Mike Bruner wrote: > imagine a contest (call it the Recital) held every hundred > years or so where angels show off new Songs they've developed. I like this idea a lot. The only change I'd make is to make Recitals further apart -- say, once every 1,000 years. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:29:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: Fwd: IN> March 18, 2001 (ML) - --- Jo Hart wrote: > >Song of Birthdays (Corporeal) If we're going that route, we could make the entry for 03/18 the Song of Walton -- that date happens to be _my_ birthday. 0:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:33:39 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) >Just a note that the new Song is, I think, a bit of a canon-breaker. >(Doesn't mean it's bad, just that it's non-canonical.) If I recall >the GMG correctly, even Superiors cannot casually destroy >lesser celestials protected by vessels. It seems to me that >this Song would allow such casual destruction. Thus, it would >slightly increase the Superiors' already-immense power relative >to PCs. This is exactly what I thought. With this song, any celestial who meets an enemy Superior is dead. Running away (the usual response, recommended by all Superiors -- including Michael, according to Superiors 1) is no longer an option. And NO WAY should a PC have this ability, even if it were canon. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2116 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.