From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 22 00:27:51 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06804 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:27:51 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA02720 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:33:15 -0600 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:33:15 -0600 Message-Id: <200103220633.AAA02720@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2119 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2119 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Re: IN> March 19, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> The angel of Hunting Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) IN> Superior Trauma oles)) Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons Re: IN> Superior Trauma Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Riff and Kiki Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Fwd: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg Re: IN> Superior Trauma Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons Re: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels IN> More Sluggy Theories Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory Re: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory Re: IN> Curiosity about the list IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) IN> In Nomine Sluggy Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy IN> March 21, 2001 (ML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:17:44 -0600 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. On 21 Mar 01, at 12:39, Rolland Therrien wrote: > Just so you all know, I've decided to work on a Pyramid Article for how to > add Superheroes to the In Nomine Universe. > Cool! > I originally decided to base it on the "Truth, Justice and the Heavenly > Way" post I made earlier, and now I'm expanding it to include the Silver > Age and beyond. I figured that by the Silver Age, the barrier between the > Marches and the Physical World would weaken enough for Ethereal objects > and creatures of all sorts to allow them to return to Earth. > > This would explain some of the "crazy" stuff that tended to happen in the > days of the Silver Age: Heroes having adventures in Atlantis, Shambala or > other lost cities, Giant Monsters appearing everywhere, the old Gods > appearing again... > That makes sense. > Of course, not all heroes would be Ethereals or Celestials; there would be > humans of 6 Forces and Sorcerors right along side them, as well as > Children of the Grigori, the latter convinced they're Mutants. > Heh! > I'm also considering having the Bronze Age, followed with the "Grim and > Gritty" age of Superheroes to be Nybbas and his fellows slowly corrupt the > public image of the Superhero, to make them more susceptible to Hell's > influence. Maybe even spearheading this concept of "Damned Heroes" is a > recently recruited Mummy, giving special Songs, a personal Shedite with > the vessel of a suit of symbiotic armor and a huge, but finite amount of > Essence... > > I'm only really at a loss with the mechanics of how I should set this up. > My original idea was to have Ethereals take on Superheroic identities > based on comics being written, but I'm now unsure as to how the comicbook > authors and editors would react to this creation. Then there's the idea > of how Soldiers and other 6-Force plus humans would fit into this... > Soldiers and other 6 force humans would tend to become the 'non-powered' superhero types, ala Batman, Captain America, Nightwing, Falcon, etc. They also make great side-kicks :) A fair number might be relic-using 'gadget' heroes. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:18:12 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> March 19, 2001 (ML) At 10:36 PM -0800 3/20/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Well, everyone else is doing superheroes, so I thought >that I'd do one, too. I'm behind on the daily >calendar ones, anyway - and I haven't forgotten Eric's >little comment from a while back. "Servants of Saint >Robert", was it*? :) The Right Honorable Saint Robert's Cadre of Malakim. We live for Lightning, we die for the Sword, we speak in extended monologues upon request. As for Minerva... it's a fun little writeup and certainly in keeping with the spirit of the Superhero thing that's going on, but I don't know. Minerva was a homebody at heart. Always as ready to shoot as the original Dora was, and no doubt, but much happier just quietly seeing to her affairs and living with (and loving) her family. I'd recast her as a creation of Lightning -- perhaps in honor of Saint Robert himself. (Not that Saint Robert contributed anything more than inspiration and specifications to this design -- he was an engineer who generally focused on aeronautical and Naval engineering in life, and didn't go anywhere near the internal parts of a computer, as far as I can determine). I could see a group of Lightning Servitors creating an AI with the idea of making it the pilot of one of Lightning's more advanced crafts -- one that Saint Robert was assigned to work on. Saint Robert, being an amiable and gentlemanly sort, got to know the AI as the design was being worked on, and in the end recommended she be assigned to internal duty, as her temperament was not one for piloting or potential adventurism -- and his tagging her with the name "Minerva" was kept. Lightning could then take the success they had with her and replicate it into the Dora or the Gay Deceiver, who would go on to be the piloting AI. And if you think I'm just recasting into In Nomine my desire to get up one morning, step out onto my porch and see the Gay Deceiver sitting on the lawn, it's doors open and inviting and a beautiful Strawberry Blond and a massive, yet disarming gent at the controls, you have much to go on. (Besides, wouldn't Mycroft Holmes from _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ make for a better Superhero? He'd love it. Or, for that matter, Athena -- Minerva's untwin sister.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:31:41 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The angel of Hunting - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: Re: IN> The angel of Hunting [snip] > At some point, the cats took note of this. > Someone, somewhere, way back when, had a flash of Inspiration... [snip] > Cats...eat...mice... > lungs> "CATS EAT MICE!!" > > Or words to the effect. Naaah. What *really* happened is that the *cats* had a flash of Inspiration -- the humans not only had lots of fat lazy mice around their houses, but also provided warm places to sleep out of the rain. So *they* walked up to *us* and rubbed against our legs and went "Mrrrowr?" and "Purr?" with their best and cutest expressions on... ... and, well, it's been working for them ever since. Little bastards. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:40:16 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) I just don't like this one, for some reason. First off, I can think of a list of Superiors who I wouldn't want to mess with even if they were temporarily mortal. (Michael, Laurence, Baal, etc.) Second off, I'm trying to wonder how one Song can instantly suppress the effect of having that many Forces. Third off, is singing this song considered a violent act? If it is, no way it would have worked on Novalis... the instant she shows up, a Superior-level Seraph of Flowers attunement shuts down the entire block. Invoking Novalis is a great way to turn a pitched battlefield into a debating club in one swell foop. And fourth off, Superiors don't really suffer Trauma (not with their multi-tasking, they're like Kyriotates that way)... so the Archangel of Flowers should have been back down faster than a Vessel-killed Malakite, only *this* time *she* Sings first when the other side isn't expecting it. And while she wouldn't deem beating a Vessel of hers to death with a Tire Iron as being Beyond The Pale, she would consider it to be an official instance of Pushing One's Luck. [snip] > THE SONG OF TIRE IRONS (all realms) > > The Song of Tire Irons has a very simple effect: sing it, spend 1 > Essence, and the target temporarily becomes a mundane human for a > number of minutes equal to the check digit of the Song. Ordinary > angels and demons are affected precisely as the Game's Humanity > attunement, but for some reason Superiors become 5-Force humans with > no ability to channel Essence. No, there's no known way to resist it. And fourth off, the problem with this is that both sides would immediately start hunting Superior vessels with hand-picked teams of close in Singers and long-range support from snipers. Or mortar crews, if you're taking on Michael or Baal. Correction -- Superiors and everybody else. Provided that you have even one friend in the universe who can shoot a piece of artillery halfway decently, you could one-shot stop any Celestial in the Symphony and they have absolutely no chance to dodge it. Neither side could *ever* get any work done under those conditions... unless, of course, you're running a "Even one note of Disturbance and you're a dead man walking" campaign. Which is possible, and may even be fun for some... but everybody else should think really carefully before lettin' this one in. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:40:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Superior Trauma oles)) (Provoked by Neel's thought-experiment of the Song of Tire Irons.) Okay, I'm quite, quite sure that canon does not cover the case of a Superior going into trauma, so it has to be a GM call. But what do people *think* should be the Superior form of Trauma? My own first take is that, since all Archangels can create Malakim, they can probably shake off Trauma as readily as Malakim can. If they can't, then what if they're multi-locating when one of their manifestations gets the axe? Do they suffer partial Trauma, like having your leg fall asleep, then go all numb and prickly for a while? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:46:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Rolland Therrien wrote: > I'm only really at a loss with the mechanics of how I should set > this up. My original idea was to have Ethereals take on Superheroic > identities based on comics being written, but I'm now unsure as to > how the comicbook authors and editors would react to this creation. I would use your original idea. It works fine. And the authors and editors of comic books are extremely used to being parodied. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:48:57 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:13:33 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles)) Yipe. Yipe yipe yipe. I liked it, it amused me greatly, and there isn't a chance in Hell that I'd permit that _anywhere_ in a game I ran. Heck, I'd complain mightily if it appeared in a game I was playing in. Why? Too hard to dodge the nukes that various Superiors would be dropping to wipe this one out.* :) Moe *Although, it does occur to me that Laurence and David would be pretty much going, "Yeah. And?" No Trauma, you understand, and I presume that corporeal death ends the Song. And those guys probably have _lots_ of Vessels... :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:48:57 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Superior Trauma - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Wajenberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:40 PM Subject: IN> Superior Trauma oles)) > If they can't, then what if they're multi-locating when one of > their manifestations gets the axe? Do they suffer partial Trauma, > like having your leg fall asleep, then go all numb and prickly for > a while? IIRC, the GMG addresses this -- if a Superior is multi-locating *at all*, then they don't suffer Trauma. Just like a Kyriotate. Given that any Superior manifesting a Vessel on the corporeal plane is, 99.999999% of the time, simultaneously keeping at least one other form up (staying in their Cathedral in Heaven to take their calls), then a Superior shouldn't suffer Trauma one bit. My best guess would be that about the only time that a Superior has one and only one form manifest is when they need *all* of their Forces in the same place at the same time -- IOW, when directly confronting another Superior. So if they lost a Vessel then, they *would* be in Trauma... and given that you stay in Trauma for a length of time equal to the # of your Corporeal Forces in days before you get your first Will roll to recover, they'd stay in it for quite a long time. (Superiors always make their Will rolls, but they still have to wait around until the first opportunity to roll comes around.) But just from having one manifestation beat to death with a tire iron? I really doubt that it would do anything more than make Novalis go "Oh, fudge. There goes the X thousand Essence it took me to make that vessel, all wasted. Oh well, I have others.. and I really do need to go back down there and speak to that person about this anyway. Firmly." - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:47 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Riff and Kiki Cameron McCurry > Riff > Soldier of Jean Nah - he's a Creationer, I think. Aylee, on the other paw, is clearly a Seraph of Jean sent to look after him. Seraph? Look at the form. She has trouble with lying ("Have you been eating people again?" "Well, just one or two...") and the EMP is clearly a Jean attunment. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:56:50 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg > > Riff > > Soldier of Jean > > Nah - he's a Creationer, I think. Makes sense. Let me guess, Eli made him a Soldier spontaneously? > Aylee, on the other paw, is clearly a Seraph of Jean sent to look after > him. Seraph? Look at the form. She has trouble with lying ("Have you been > eating people again?" "Well, just one or two...") and the EMP is clearly a > Jean attunment. Hmm...That would make sense, but I almost see her as a Cherub given how protective she is of Torg (Look what she did to K'Z'K recently). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:07:35 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron McCurry" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:56 PM Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg > Hmm...That would make sense, but I almost see her as a Cherub given how > protective she is of Torg (Look what she did to K'Z'K recently). Hey, even Seraphs have friends... and besides, K'z'K is obviously Legion re-manifest! Even a Mercurian of Flowers would go red-alert out-on-the-warpath vs. *that*! - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:13:56 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolland Therrien" To: "In Nomine Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:39 AM Subject: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. [snip] > I'm also considering having the Bronze Age, followed with the "Grim and > Gritty" age of Superheroes to be Nybbas and his fellows slowly corrupt the > public image of the Superhero, to make them more susceptible to Hell's > influence. Maybe even spearheading this concept of "Damned Heroes" is a > recently recruited Mummy, giving special Songs, a personal Shedite with the > vessel of a suit of symbiotic armor and a huge, but finite amount of > Essence... Don't forget an uber-vengeful over-the-top Habbalite in a darker, more modern version of "Black Hawk's" old costume, who just loves to project the emotion of Fear into everybody he meets, even his allies -- and who pretends to be a hero while actually taking the old heroic mold and perverting it to the death of one younger sidekick, the near-total alienation and nervous breakdown of one older one, and culminating with a huge battle where Mr. Wonder got his nuts crunched. Fortunately, Heaven caught up to him right after that and... well, Black Hawk's image was so dark now that they couldn't return it to the old Ethereal spirit who used to have it (and who was dead anyway), but there was a Distincted Malakite of the Sword who was willing to take on the Vessel... so while Black Hawk is still a fearsome, driven avenger of the night, at least he's not a total bleeping psycho now. Or shouldn't be, at any rate. Sad thing is, some of his fans haven't noticed that yet. *g* - -- Chuckg (I'm sure that all the comics fans knows who and what I'm talking about here, but I'm willing to explain if anybody doesn't know. Moe isn't the only one who might risk using over-obscure references.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:03:49 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Fwd: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) > >THE SONG OF TIRE IRONS (all realms) > I love it ;) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:05:03 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg At 1:56 PM -0500 3/21/01, Cameron McCurry wrote: > > Hmm...That would make sense, but I almost see her as a Cherub given how >protective she is of Torg (Look what she did to K'Z'K recently). True, but I prefer the Ethereal theory for Aylee -- after all, it *does* fit the adventure where they found and brought her to Earth, and also potentially explains how she keeps changing. Hmmm.... What If... Torg, in this universe, uses a pseudonym and posts a webcomic about his adventures with the gang. (Or even better, someone like Sasha or Gwynn does.) These get a following, which in turn gives Aylee Essence, but also means that as she's seen increasingly positively, her definition keeps shifting, which means she has the 'evolutionary' aspect referenced before.... Gwynn, I assume, is a Sorcerer after being possessed a couple of times by a powerful Shedite. That last scene in the last plotline was Gwynn making her Will roll and forcing K'Z'K out -- and because he had no Heart at this point (it was destroyed in the last battle he was in, when he lost lots of power) and Riff's robot could apparently engage in Celestial Combat (or K'Z'E was convinced it could) K'Z'E was sent into that yawning abyss.... *Maybe* he was able to force himself into Limbo before it was too late. If Shedim can even do that, that is. Of course, once *in* Limbo the Shedite couldn't get out because he couldn't build a vessel for himself.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:07:46 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg At 1:07 PM -0600 3/21/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >Hey, even Seraphs have friends... and besides, K'z'K is obviously Legion >re-manifest! Even a Mercurian of Flowers would go red-alert >out-on-the-warpath vs. *that*! I don't think K'z'K is Legion. You referenced the Zombie Legions before, but all that really indicates is a high level Servitor of Death, to me. But, after losing many Forces in the first battle and back in the past, K'Z'E was reduced to corrupting Gwynn slowly (to avoid Dissonance) and rebuilding his power base. His problem was Gwynn wasn't going down quickly enough, so he had to accelerate his timetable. We don't need Legion for that, just a Distincted Shedite. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:24:56 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) > >> >THE SONG OF TIRE IRONS (all realms) Intresting, But WAY to much Cream filling for my taste. Brad, Who is a little uncomfterable with PC flattening God like beings. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:37:20 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory >From: Whistling in the Dark >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >CC: "Charles Glasgow" >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg >Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:07:46 -0500 > >At 1:07 PM -0600 3/21/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >> >>Hey, even Seraphs have friends... and besides, K'z'K is obviously Legion >>re-manifest! Even a Mercurian of Flowers would go red-alert >>out-on-the-warpath vs. *that*! > >I don't think K'z'K is Legion. You referenced the Zombie Legions >before, but all that really indicates is a high level Servitor of >Death, to me. A high level servitor of Death *who can possess more than one body at a time*? K'z'k can do a 'mass mind' effect with his entire zombie legion. Everything they see, he sees. Everything they know, he knows. That is *not* the average Shedite of Death. And K'z'k isn't dumb enough to be Saminga (he might be unwise at times, but not *that* stupid), so that leaves the only other Superior-level Shedite of (used to be) Death in history. Besides, after that butt-whoopin' he got from Rafael, it's only to be expected that he's not quite the Prince he used to be. And then the shredding he got during 'Storm Breaker' has knocked him down practically to Remnant level... ... of course, while "practically to Remnant-level" for an average demon would mean the damn thing was a mini-Shedite, for a Demon Prince it means something that even minus most of its power base and only partly reconstituted in the mind of a human being after damn near having been shredded before that, it can still take on an entire party and whoop butt. That ain't quite the average Shedite either. >But, after losing many Forces in the first battle and >back in the past, K'Z'E was reduced to corrupting Gwynn slowly (to >avoid Dissonance) and rebuilding his power base. His problem was >Gwynn wasn't going down quickly enough, so he had to accelerate his >timetable. >We don't need Legion for that, just a Distincted Shedite. We do, however, need Legion to explain the things that K'z'k was capable of back *before* he was scattered into almost-Remnant shards across time and space. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:11 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 1: Torg Cameron McCurry > > > Riff > > > Soldier of Jean > > > > Nah - he's a Creationer, I think. > > Makes sense. Let me guess, Eli made him a Soldier spontaneously? Exactly... No way he went through the training process for a Soldier of Jean, and Jean doesn't make people soldiers with the proper training. > > Aylee, on the other paw, is clearly a Seraph of Jean sent to look > > after him... > Hmm...That would make sense, but I almost see her as a Cherub given > how protective she is of Torg (Look what she did to K'Z'K recently). No reason a Seraph can't be protective... - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:37:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superior Trauma At 1:40 PM -0500 3/21/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >(Provoked by Neel's thought-experiment of the Song of Tire Irons.) > >Okay, I'm quite, quite sure that canon does not cover the case >of a Superior going into trauma, so it has to be a GM call. >But what do people *think* should be the Superior form of Trauma? If they've got _all_ their attention in one single vessel, and no instantiations elsewhere, I could see a Superior in Trauma for a day or two or six. >If they can't, then what if they're multi-locating when one of >their manifestations gets the axe? Do they suffer partial Trauma, >like having your leg fall asleep, then go all numb and prickly for >a while? Probably like a Kyriotate who just got a host killed -- only without the dissonance. (Think Kyrio of Laurence or Michael, who can have a vessel and hosts at the same time, and the vessel bites it. Only without dissonance.) At least, that's how I'd play it, if the matter came up. Since the matter is most unlikely to come up, I am most unlikely to make canon pronouncements on it. (So work on the concepts you use on your own as you will. O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:41:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons At 10:48 AM -0800 3/21/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Too hard to dodge the nukes that various Superiors >would be dropping to wipe this one out.* :) That's probably my main comment; with such a Song, you can make it work _once_, and then one starts getting defenses. Always an instantiation somewhere, say... E.g., in a non-canon, non-serious crossover I was doing, Kobal got his instantiation hit with a "hypnogogic projector" (mental-stun brain-scrambling beam weapon) that zoned out that instantiation. He reinstantiated and got hit with it again. (Fast reflexes, those AIs.) Then he reinstantiated with several Songs of Shields running. Fortunately, by that time the time-traveler had been rescued by her AI and the ship was ascending out of the atmosphere in full stealth mode. Not to mention the Archangels who'd been along for the ride (having made first contact) were jumping down to try to get some Prince-smiting in. All it takes is Ethereal Shields, after all... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:26:44 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels >Celestial Song of Life (LCant, p. 92). > >6 Essence. The celestial gets a Will roll. If they fail, they're soul >killed. Vessel or no vessel. Requires touch. > >Restricted - Superiors only. Well, only Superiors know it. But it's rumored these Songs can be found by a determined searcher... and technically, they could be taught. >It's good to be a Superior. Yah, and any of them would be crazy to give it to a human. Good thing there aren't any Superiors whose Words involve life-giving (and -taking) energies who are acting kind of odd down on Earth at the moment, hunh? (^-- >Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:11:54 -0500 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: IN> More Sluggy Theories OK, two small items to toss out to y'all to dissect. 1) Gwynn: Was a rather discordant Lillim (Of whom I don't know), who ended up in service to K'z'k. Perhaps part of the Discord is her hideous natural vision... anyway, in light of the latest two strips... she's gone Bright. She loves everything, she's giving presents "just because"... 2) The flower-breathing Dragon of Annoyia: Seraph of Flowers captured and imprisoned in the Dimension of Pain area of Hell until its accidental release. The years? Decades? Centuries? of imprisonment made it rather angry. Just not angry enough to actually *hurt* anything, after all, it's still a servant of Novalis. Shred to your heart's (or Heart's) content. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:19:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory At 9:37 PM -0500 3/21/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >That is *not* the average Shedite of Death. Well, no. See, he's a comic strip character. He doesn't have to follow our rules. Any more than we have to say the Kittens are all Calabim of Gluttony because of the speed they destroy people, or that Oasis *has* to be a Malakite because of the speed she comes out of Trauma. If we take all this *that* seriously, it bleeds the fun out of it. K'z'e could be Legion, or he could be someone else, and we just accept that Sluggy IN won't quite match IN, or else won't quite match Sluggy. Take it *down* a few levels, already. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:19:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, William J. Keith wrote: > >Celestial Song of Life (LCant, p. 92). > > > >6 Essence. The celestial gets a Will roll. If they fail, they're soul > >killed. Vessel or no vessel. Requires touch. > > > >Restricted - Superiors only. > > Well, only Superiors know it. But it's rumored these Songs can be found by > a determined searcher... and technically, they could be taught. No. It's RESTRICTED - Superiors Only. Only Superiors can use it. Even if you could teach it to an angel or human, they couldn't use it, anymore than a non-Seraph could use the Song of Truthswearing. If you want to change it from "Restricted - Superiors" to "Secret", in your campaign, go for it... but expect some MAJOR munchkining. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! The Earth it did crack open / On the day that I was born And a thousand merry pranksters / Came dancin' through the storm I am Antipop / I'll run against the grain till the day I drop I am the Antipop / The man you cannot stop -- Primus, "The Antipop" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:33:15 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: "Charles Glasgow" Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:19 PM Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy -- Legion theory > At 9:37 PM -0500 3/21/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >That is *not* the average Shedite of Death. > > Well, no. See, he's a comic strip character. He doesn't have to > follow our rules. The major fun of taking fictional characters and running through an IN lens is to see just how closely you can fit them within the rules system. Besides, any demon that creates city-wide undead catastrophes single-handed with virtually null prep time is above the average Distincted, no matter how loosely you parse the rules. > Any more than we have to say the Kittens are all > Calabim of Gluttony because of the speed they destroy people, Errr, couldn't any sufficiently nasty Calabite just use his resonance to discombobulate people like that? After all, it's not as if we saw them attack anybody except ordinary five-Force humans... and they *are* the children of Lucifer, after all... (Well, unless somebody was lying. Which is always a possibility when dealing with demons and Hellsworn. A definite one.) > or that Oasis *has* to be a Malakite because of the speed she comes out of > Trauma. What speed coming out of Trauma? Oasis has had only two big death scenes in the comic, and both of those had more than a little "down period" with no Oasis to be seen anywhere until her next reappearance. You're only a Malakite if you bounce back near-instantly, as in "Hey, I saw you get burnt into ashes five minutes ago! What's going on here?". When you get blown up and aren't seen for days or weeks on end and only come back after all that, that's just any old celestial making Will rolls to recover from Trauma normally. > If we take all this *that* seriously, it bleeds the fun out of it. Hardly. The mental exercise of trying to make it fit as closely as we can *is* the fun. Or at least, that's how I see it. I mean, what's the point of trying to translate a fictional milieu into an RPG system if you're not trying to make it work as closely as you can? > K'z'e could be Legion, or he could be someone else, and we just > accept that Sluggy IN won't quite match IN, or else won't quite match > Sluggy. > > Take it *down* a few levels, already. Hey, you have fun *your* way, and I'll have fun *my* way... *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:15:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Rhodri James Subject: Re: IN> Curiosity about the list In article , Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 9:31 PM -0500 3/18/01, Janet Anderson wrote: > >How many people on this list have met each other in person? > I've met... > Maya, Eric, Mason, Jason S, and almost > certainly others whose names I'm blanking on. (My memory's going; it's > been that kind of Monday today.) We have met, though only briefly when you, Walter and Genevieve were leaving the vast echoing gaming halls of Bucconeer (in search of food) and I was entering (in search of something to do). - -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:11:37 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) Neel started it, what with that Song of Tire Irons. Blame _him_, why don't you? ;) Morgan Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Are You CRAZY? No Way I'd Let It Into One of My Campaigns, Even As A MacGuffin. Well, Maybe As A MacGuffin. _The_ Gun Vapula swears - he _swears_ - that he didn't create this artifact. Nobody believes him, but they should - for one thing, even he's not insane enough to manufacture something like this: for another, it works perfectly. Of course, neither Jean nor Eli would create something like this, either. It's just one of those little mysteries, apparently. _The_ Gun looks like a cap pistol. To use, point at someone and pull the trigger. The target (which must be a living human, ethereal or celestial) gets to make a Will roll at -6 to resist the effects. If he or she fails, then the modified Celestial Song of Life takes effect - Why, yes, I did say "Celestial Song of Life". May I continue? Thank you. Anyway, the modified Celestial Song of Life takes effect. Humans will immediately be transformed into a reliever, imp or gremlin (GM call which, based on whether the person is nice or not) of the same number of Forces. Ethereals are turned into a pillar of salt. Actually, that's a lie: they get turned into a pillar of Primordial Clay (level equal to their Forces). Celestials - well, that's the strange one. They get turned into a 7 Force human: any extra Forces are turned into 1 Force babies, which will grow up into perfectly normal 7 Force humans themselves. There's also a very loud boom. Why, yes, the effects *are* permanent - and of course anyone could use the relic. Every Superior on both sides is screaming for a _reason_, after all... Statistics (Come on. Aren't you even a _little_ curious about how far above your budget this little toy is?) Relic/6 (Modified version of Celestial Song of Life) 48pt Reliquary/6 (only useable with Relic) 12pt Self-Powered +0pt Use Enhancement: anyone may use relic +6pt Use Enhancement: anyone may use reliquary to fuel Song +3pt Fragility: _really_ Unbreakable +8pt Disturbance: Continuous Disturbance (6pt) -6pt Activation Time: 1 round +1pt Visibility: Instantly recognizable-3pt Total: 69 points. Rumors of a one-shot version of this relic (cost: 12 points) are completely fanciful. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:17:44 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) [snip] > Why, yes, the effects *are* permanent - and of course > anyone could use the relic. Every Superior on both > sides is screaming for a _reason_, after all... In which case, the first time this thing falls into the hands of any loyal servant of any Superior, they'll invoke their boss -- who will immediately grab this sucker and bury it either under the Granite Throne in the Lower Hells or toss as far up Jacob's Ladder as they can, depending on which side. (Indeed, the smarter Demon Princes, such as Asmodeus, will *give* it to Heaven -- they know damn well Heaven ain't gonna use it, and not even the craziest demon can make it past the Pax Dei.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:23:50 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> In Nomine Sluggy I liked all of these - especially Aylee - but, what about Gwynn? :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:32:06 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy At 9:23 PM -0800 3/21/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >I liked all of these - especially Aylee - but, what >about Gwynn? :) Human possessee victim made into a Sorcerer? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:26:29 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 21, 2001 (ML) This should catch me up. :) Moe The equinoxes are special times for celestials. Now, normally a celestial will recover Essence at sunrise or sunset, depending on whether they're an angel or a demon. However, on those two days per year when day and night are of equal length, this rule is somewhat changed: instead of at the beginning or the end of a day, celestials will regenerate at the exact midpoint - and will regenerate two Essence, instead of one. This is true for everybody: Outcasts, the Celestially Discordant, Renegades, Remnants - even those in Limbo. Naturally, traditions have sprung up around this twice-yearly phenomenon. Angels usually try to spend that 'special Essence' to do someone a favor, or just give it away to the less fortunate: demons are permitted by their Prince to use it on anything they damned well please (even the ones in Hell). It can get pretty noisy on those two days. There's also, of course, a massive blowout at the Glades. Novalis and her Servitors throw a party that everybody who's anybody shows up for - even Archangels that normally wouldn't be caught dead in the place. The rule is, if you can stand the Light of Heaven, you've got an automatic invitation: ethereals have calmly walked in, hung out, then left without being molested, and there's been more than one Redemption that's taken place there. It's also about the only time that anyone's ever seen Dominic sit down and have a drink. He keeps the hood up, though, which usually clashes horribly with the garland of roses that somehow manages to accumulate around him. Hell's bashes are a lot more diverse (every Prince tries to outdo the other, except for Mammon and Kronos: the former's a skinflint and the latter's just not a partying type), but about as safe a place to be as one can find in the Infernal regions. Obviously, they have themes, which should probably be left to the imagination. The prize is to have Lucifer show up, of course: the maneuverings and plotting can be intense (and invariably fatal to some Servitors) in the weeks before the Day. Of course, the Lightbringer merely picks a spot to go at random each time. Still, it's quite the coup, and the other Princes will be a little more wary around you for the next six months, so who cares? ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2119 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.