From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 22 13:01:53 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26065 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:01:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA31640 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:06:37 -0600 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:06:37 -0600 Message-Id: <200103221906.NAA31640@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2120 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 22 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2120 In this digest: Re: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> March 21, 2001 (ML) IN> March 21, 2001 (PK) IN> Soap Opera In Nomine IN> GIN Feedback (soul-death) Re: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels Re: IN> Soap Opera In Nomine Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy IN> Leitmotiv: Haagenti, The Hunger IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Re: IN> The Angel of Pets Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Re: IN> Celestials for Variant Settings: Kalel, Angel of Superheroes Re: IN> Pentecost ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:43:24 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:17:44 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) - - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: IN> March 20, 2001 (ML) [snip] >>Why, yes, the effects *are* permanent - and of >>course anyone could use the relic. Every Superior >>on both sides is screaming for a _reason_, after >>all... >In which case, the first time this thing falls into >the hands of any loyal servant of any Superior, >they'll invoke their boss -- who will immediately >grab this sucker and bury it either under the Granite >Throne in the Lower Hells or toss as far up Jacob's >Ladder as they can, depending on which side. True enough - although trying to take it away from someone could be problematical. Besides... is there _one_ entity out there that wouldn't be tempted to use this thing? Just once? I mean, you wouldn't want to lock the thing away fully loaded, right? Makes sense to drain the power cell, right? And, after all, there's always _somebody_ who really would be better off as a human/reliever/pillar of Primordial Clay...* Moe *Hey, it's a silly artifact for a silly campaign. Just the _rumor_ is good enough for laughs. Besides, a regular supply of Primordial Clay is nothing to sneeze at. ;) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:53:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> March 21, 2001 (ML) On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Maurice Lane wrote: > The equinoxes are special times for celestials. Damn good flavor stuff, Moe. This one would make a great sidebar in one of the books... or it could be expanded as the basis for a whole adventure seed. I'm adding this one in as Canon IMC. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Though they broke my legs / They gave me a crutch to walk / Laws to guide me / And a crutch to walk. / Amen. -- Chumbawamba, "Today's Sermon" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:22:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> March 21, 2001 (PK) As the first of the Astrological signs begins, let us look at the Heavenly Zodiak, its signs, and its interpretations... ARIES - The Ofanite Adventurous and energetic, Enthusiastic and confident, Dynamic and quick-witted, Impulsive and impatient TAURUS - The Cherub Patient and reliable, Warmhearted and loving, Persistent and determined, Placid and security loving GEMINI - The Kyriotate Adaptable and versatile, Communicative and witty, Youthful and lively, Inquisitive and inconsistent CANCER - The Grigori Emotional and loving, Intuitive and imaginative, Shrewd and cautious, Protective and sympathetic LEO - The Archangel Generous and warmhearted, Broad-minded and expansive, Faithful and loving, Bossy and interfering VIRGO - The Elohite Meticulous and reliable, Practical and diligent, Intelligent and analytical, Perfectionist and conservative LIBRA - The Mercurian Diplomaitic and urbane, Romantic and charming, Easygoing and sociable, Idealistic and peaceable SCORPIO - The Malakite Determined and forceful, Powerful and passionate, Exciting and magnetic, Secretive and obstinate SAGGITARIUS - The Bright Lilim Optimistic and freedom-loving, Jovial and good-humored, Honest and straightforward, Blindly optimistic and careless CAPRICORN - The Seraph Practical and prudent, Ambitious and disciplined, Patient and careful, Conventional and rigid AQUARIUS - The Bodhisattva Friendly and humanitarian, Honest and loyal, Original and inventive, Independent and intellectual PISCES - The Reliever Compassionate and kind, Selfless and unworldly, Intuitive and sympathetic, Escapist and idealistic - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "I am the greatest man in the world; indeed I am SO great that I can afford great generosity: I encourage all others to adopt the DELUSION that they are as great as I. If they truly thought that they were themselves the greatest, they too would be as generous; and then we would all be able to HUMOR each other, in peace, for none would feel threatened by the now-harmless delusions of everyone else." -- Philo Drummond ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:32:34 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Soap Opera In Nomine Like a feather burning, thus are the hearts of Angels - -The Motto of Soap Opera In Nomine Ever wanted really to make fun of the Princes, Princess's, Archangels and Ethereals of In Nomine? Well the best setting I think to do with that is to take all of the dramatic possibilities and the angst and....DO IT ALL IN A SINGLE CAMPAIGN. While it may seem farsical it actually makes a certain ammount of sense because it implies that angels feel far more passionately than humans and thus...are fairly crazy. The key to running the game really is to make sure that everything here has far reaching consequences and everyone should be wearing a straight face during this; save perhaps the Players and Referee. Now here's how to run it.... The Superiors are the main background characters of In Nomine to draw from but of course they'res plenty of other "fish in the sea" such as Athena, Nicole, the beutiful Angel of Martial Arts, the cast of Austin and all the other NPCs out there. The key however is to remember that "Everyone is attracted/seeing/sleeping/plotting against EVERYONE". Novalis and Michael are having their secret tryst but Gabriel as Michael's old girlfriend is trying to win him back by employing her old beu Andrephalus to seduce the chipper and naive flower girl even as Bad boy David tries to make the moves on her. Beleth and Blandine's lesbian love is complicated by Saminga and Laurence who seek to lure both beutiful young women to their bedside, alternating on which one they're trying to do so to. Lucifer as the resident big bad (along with occasional bad guy Kronos but who has Haptitas to keep him company) never gets anyone but is constantly scheming to capture heroines for his own dastardly purposes. When Lilith finally dumps Lucifer for good guy Jean, what will he say when he discovers she's pregnant with *GASP* Kobal's child? Will Vapula ever recover his memory and discover he is actually a she and resident teacher Yves's true love Raphael? I know what your going to say, but if the Superiors are doing all the whacky stuff then where is room for the PCs? Simple answer my friend, give them the complete option to mess over the Superiors too! It may seem unrealistic that a bunch of PCs can drop a artifact bag over Baal's head, beat him up, and replace him with Seraphim/Balseraphim Look-a-like Bhaal but this is television man! Go with it! Yes it may prove a bit odd when Zadkiel in a jealous fit over Laurence's philandering ways (especially with that crazy librarian archivist from Hell) turns to a PC..or two...for "comforting" only to inspire Laurence's eternal enimity but if your PCs are teenage to college age (in In Nomine terms 10,000 to 112 million years old) they'll thank you with a smile on their face. Truth be told I think it's also high time that someone gave Nybbas a makeover, helped him with that stuttor, got him some contacts....and yes allowed him to express his true feelings for Shania Twain (special guest star!). Try it once, you'll thank me. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:31:45 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> GIN Feedback (soul-death) Well, as promised, Perry brings word on GURPS In Nomine. (1) I highly recommend using separate stats for Will and Perception. IMC, they were purchased separately from IQ (using Strong/Weak Will and +/- Alertness respectively) [discussed in Compendium 1] (2) Soul killing. We have a character in the game with a celestial shotgun (uncanon, SFAICT) which does heap-loads (4d/shot) of Soul damage on the Celestial plane. Under the old In Nomine rules (where the gun was Power +6), he was able to cut the Shedite down to an Imp in a matter of minutes (Real Time), however, using the aging rules in GIN, the Djinn he took on was *barely scratched* after 15 minutes of RL time. Perhaps because base Will for a Demon is 14 (this one was about PC equal, with Will 18) in GIN, in lieu of 6 in standard In Nomine. I ruled, in game, that in terms of Soul Death, one had to reconvert in standard In Nomine (since there his Will was only 8 (a 26% chance of failure rather than 1.9% chance of failure) . . . So . . . yeah. Using the Aging rules for Soul loss didn't seem to work (except to /really/ make Celestial combat long, draw-out, and essentially pointless) Possible fix? Subtract 5 from Will for purposes of Aging rolls in reference to Soul Death. That would have dropped the demon's chance of success down to 84ish% Plus, it would make having starting Will (14) for an celestial be discouragement from entering into Soul combat. Just a thought. AND here's a handy chart!!!! Will Soul death target number 26+ 16 20-25 15 19 14 18 13 17 12 16 11 15 10 14 9 Now THAT'S more like it. Ciao! - -Perry, k.f.c. perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:47:01 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels - --On Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:19 AM -0500 "Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > No. It's RESTRICTED - Superiors Only. Only Superiors can use it. > Even if you could teach it to an angel or human, they couldn't use > it, anymore than a non-Seraph could use the Song of Truthswearing. > If you want to change it from "Restricted - Superiors" to "Secret", > in your campaign, go for it... but expect some MAJOR munchkining. Or, and this is a perrenial favorite of mine, let 'em have it. Then explain, with a perfectly straight face, exactly what channeling that degree of power will do to them. Ever wonder what a diode designed for 12VDC/1200mA feels like when it's accidentally plugged into a grid main (440HVAC)? Betcha that plays holy hell with the metastructures that keep Forces intact. Anyone ever wonder what fission looks like close up? If you want to have a pair of smoking boots survive the blast, we have no way of stopping you. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Imps explode for 5 hits/Force, radius equal to 10' x CD with damage decreasing as a function of distance from the smoking crater exponentially. Fledged demons do 10 hits/Force, and make a nicer noise.") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:53:47 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Soap Opera In Nomine - --On Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:32 AM -0500 Charles Phipps wrote: > Truth be told I think it's also high time that someone gave Nybbas a > makeover, helped him with that stuttor, got him some > contacts....and yes allowed him to express his true feelings for > Shania Twain (special guest star!). > > Try it once, you'll thank me. Maybe after the nightmares and the twitching stop. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Still.....not.....clean....") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:45:31 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy > I liked all of these - especially Aylee - but, what > about Gwynn? :) Amanda already threw out a suggestion on her. -:-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:35:54 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Leitmotiv: Haagenti, The Hunger It's been a while since I last did a Leitmotiv character study, so I decided to do one based on the last suggestion I got, Haagenti. I tried to add a bit of humor, along with my understanding of what Haagenti's hunger must feel like. Enjoy. ^^ Leitmotiv: The Hunger A character study of the Prince of Gluttony Do you know what Hunger is? Some people skip out on a meal, then they feel the small cramps in their guts, and they think they know Hunger. They're wrong. Other people fast, surviving on nothing but gruel and water, living on the barest essentials as their bodies weaken, and they think they know Hunger. Kid stuff. Imagine denying yourself sustenance of nearly any kind for a whole month, surviving through some unknown means, but not without your body suffering from the starvation. Imagine feeling your guts shrivel and painfully collapse in on themselves from the emptyness, even as your body remains strong. Imagine a gnawing sensation which forces you to devour as much as you can, without ever ridding yourself of that agonizing hunger... Then, you can talk about Hunger. And that sensation you just imagined is a mere case of the munchies, compared to Haagenti's Hunger. And Haagenti is always hungry. "I HUNGER!!!" In Shal-Mari, those bellowed words are as frightening as Godzilla's roar in Tokyo, as they announce the approach of the Prince of Gluttony. On that day, as Haagenti stomped his way through the streets of the city of vice, Demons and Damned Souls alike ran for cover, careful of standing between the Gluttonous one and any foodsource he sought out, for fear of being confused with said foudsource. Only the various Food vendors stood their ground, quaking in fear as they knew He would soon reach their stands at one time or another... Soon enough, the Gluttonous Prince walked down the street, in a variation of his favored form, appearing as a 12 foot tall hairy, Spur covered demon with a huge gaping maw ringed with razor sharp teeth. He turned to look at the street vendors and suddenly a large, tentacle like tongue lept from between the teeth to lick his lips as the maw curled up into a twisted kind of smile. The Demonic and Damned Vendors nearly feinted right there, but soon recovered out of habit and began serving up large servings of their products: Huge Trays of Hot Dogs, Platters of Tacos, Bowlfuls of French Fries, Baskets of Pretzels, Armful of Donuts, Buckets of Ice Cream... All of which soon vanished into the Dread Prince's gullet, as he devoured the offerings eagerly, until it was all gone. Then he grabbed the vendors and devoured them, as well. He then stood in the quiet, empty streets for a moment more, and then screamed: "I STILL HUNGER!!!" Haagenti then walked back towards the heart of his princedom, the restaurant District of Shal-Mari, and looked around at the different eateries. He stuck out his tongue and waved it in the air again, taking in the different fragrences and scents much as a snake would, before turning to a large french-like diner called "The Titan's Meal." His form shifted slightly, before transforming into that of a large and rotund horned humanoid, a fine italian suit stretched out across his form in an almost ridiculous manner, then slowly walked through the door and glared at the Maitre'D, A skinny Balseraph who was already trembling nervously. "M-m-my P-p-Prince... H-How m-may I b-be of Service?" Haagenti smiled, exposing his shark-like dentures, and said "Table for One, please," as he straightened his tie. The Serpent gulped and nodded. "Yes... At once, My Prince." He quickly walked into the restaurant and called out to the various personel, "The Prince is here! Everyone ready for a Princely Feast!" At once, the various Waiters, Stewards and Cooks scrambled like an emergency task force, dropping everything else for the urgent task of preparing the Prince's food as quickly as inhumanly possible. They knew Haagenti hated to wait. The various patrons already in the restaurant soon excused themselves, as not only they knew they wouldn't get any service, they realized they might end up becoming part of the Feast as well, if they weren't careful. Only seconds afterwards, however, the Maitre'D rushed back towards Haagenti and waived him in. "I'm s-sorry for the delay, Dread Prince... Please follow me to your table, Milord..." he said, before muttering under his breath "Oh-lucifer-please-don't-eat-me-please-don't-eat-me." Soon enough, Haagenti was sitting at a large center table, the Maitre'D standing beside him as the wine Steward approached with a selection of wines for his approval. Haagenti approved, and began drinking from all the bottles, as the waiters brought up the first course, a huge vat filled with soup. The Maitre'D announced the platter as it approached "Your Entree, my Prince: The Boullabaise of the Kings of the Sea! Fish, Shrimp, Crab, Lobster, Octopus and Shellfish of a countless types, cooked into a fine soup with a cajun flavoring!" Haagenti grinned as he grabbed the vat and held the soup vat effortlessly to his lips, greedily gulping down the soup as it flowed, the waiters quickly running back to the kitchen for the rest. The Serpent felt himself grow blank as he witnessed the Prince's Hunger at work, but kept his apparant cool as the waiters returned in a line, each carrying a large platter with a roasted sheep on top of it. The Serpent simply continued announcing the meal as it approached, as he had done countless times before: "The Lambchop Holocaust! Two dozen sheep, roasted and basted with care! A feast made for a wolf!" And indeed, Haagenti soon wolfed down the plates of mutton one by one, as the waiters returned to the kitchens, where the cooks were straining to keep up with the Prince's devouring. Four of them soon returned with a huge platter holding a finely roasted Bull. A Whole Bull. "The Toreador's Victory! A prize fighting bull, slaugthered and roasted over an open flame!" Haagenti smiled and soon started to eat the large bull roast, while the waiters returned with another platter, carrying what at first seemed like another bull, but the Prince soon saw an udder on it's belly. "The Tauro's widow! A little bit more bitter, but still finely roasted!" Haagenti shrugged and soon started eating it as well, when two more waiters came back in, each one carrying a plate of Veal. Haagenti paused long enough to look at the waiter with curiosity, before the Serpent added; "The Tauro's Orphans. We don't believe in seperating families." As Haagenti finished off the bull's family, another group of waiters arrived, carrying a huge omelett in a large plate, as the Maitre'D, now somewhat more relaxed, announced it: "The Titan's Omelett! Three dozen chicken eggs, mixed with the eggs of a hundred different species of birds and reptiles: Ostrichs, Kiwis, Cobras, Tortoises, Flamingoes, Alligators..." The Gluttonous One ignored the Balseraph as he kept enumerating the different types of eggs and just took his ustensiles to eat the omelett. Then another pair of waiters came in, carrying a huge platter, which the Maitre'D identified as "The Mountain of Caviar!" They were then followed by a single small Waiter carrying a puny platter, holding only a small soda cracker. "And the Biscotti that goes with it." Then, came the more exotic dishes of food, the likes of which you'd normally not find in your average restaurant: "The Camel! It's good, and oddly stuffed!"; "The Chinese Panda! Fire Roasted and spiced with bamboo shavings, it's an endangered treat!"; "The Sperm Whale! Stuffed with fish and sea-food, it's a delight from the deep!"; "And before proceeding with the rest of the meal, the African Elephent, stuff with Olives!" An hour later, Haagenti finally left the restaurant, patting his enlarged belly and licking his lips, leaving the Maitre'D consoling the crying chef, a Damned Soul: "He... He ate EVERYTHING! Our stocks are empty! We don't even have enough for tomorrow!" The Balseraph nodded. "I know, Pierre, I know... But at least he didn't eat us, right?" The poor Damned Human nodded, but sighed again, "I know, I know... But I wish he hadn't asked "So, what's the second Course?" after we ran out of food..." Meanwhile, Haagenti had shifted back to his previous form, and continued to walk through the streets of Shal-Mari, smiling contently, until he began feeling that twisting pain in his stomach once more. His smile turned into a frown as he stood in place, then started talking to himself as he scratched his belly. "Hmm... Must be noon twelve. I always get hungry at noon twelve." And before the restaurant district of Shal-Mari could allow itself to relax, the voice of the Dread Prince of Gluttony resonnated through it again, screaming it's familiar cry: "I HUNGER!!!" - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:50:14 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) Charles Glasgow wrote: > > I just don't like this one, for some reason. The fact that it's a goofy joke designed to let punk-ass PCs ice Superiors might be a good place to start. ;) > First off, I can think of a list of Superiors who I wouldn't want to > mess with even if they were temporarily mortal. (Michael, Laurence, > Baal, etc.) That's definitely true, though given a choice I'd rather face Rambo than Baal. > Third off, is singing this song considered a violent act? If it is, > no way it would have worked on Novalis... the instant she shows up, > a Superior-level Seraph of Flowers attunement shuts down the entire > block. Invoking Novalis is a great way to turn a pitched battlefield > into a debating club in one swell foop. I actually considered that: this takes advantage of a metaphysical loophole. Since humans are officially defined as special, changing an angel into a human doesn't count as a violent act, since it's pushing the target *up* the karmic food chain. > And fourth off, Superiors don't really suffer Trauma (not with > their multi-tasking, they're like Kyriotates that way)... so the > Archangel of Flowers should have been back down faster than a > Vessel-killed Malakite, only *this* time *she* Sings first when > the other side isn't expecting it. Taking the Song far more seriously than it deserves... It turns the target into an ordinary human. Not "turns this instantiation into an ordinary human," but "turns the target into an ordinary human." So no, they lose all their extra forms when the Song hits, since humans don't have those. And when a human dies, they *foof* and an officially ineffable amount of time later, they reappear at the Gates of Heaven/Hell, or reincarnate. So that's what happens to a person killed while under the influence. It's not at all obvious that an archangel would know how to get -out- of the karmic machinery even after the Song ends, given that even they know basically nothing about how it works. - -*-*-*- Getting more serious, I really don't like using superiors as NPCs. The power differential between a superior and a PC is just too big -- it makes having complex relationships between them harder to do. So anything that makes them scarcer and easier to take down is a good thing in my book. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:52:41 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) >From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: "'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com'" >Subject: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:50:14 -0500 >It turns the target into an ordinary human. Not "turns this >instantiation into an ordinary human," but "turns the target into >an ordinary human." So no, they lose all their extra forms when >the Song hits, since humans don't have those. Which means they also lose their Words, given that humans don't have those either. (Barring a unique Infernal Intervention, of course.) IOW, one singing of this song just jerked over the Symphony sideways. Eep. [snip] >Getting more serious, I really don't like using superiors as NPCs. >The power differential between a superior and a PC is just too >big -- it makes having complex relationships between them harder >to do. Eh? Most other game systems can survive this one... >So anything that makes them scarcer and easier to take >down is a good thing in my book. Having suffered on the edges of at least one "god-killer" campaign in 1st edition AD&D, I do not agree. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:14:04 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" > > > Third off, is singing this song considered a violent act? If it is, > > no way it would have worked on Novalis... the instant she shows up, > > a Superior-level Seraph of Flowers attunement shuts down the entire > > block. Invoking Novalis is a great way to turn a pitched battlefield > > into a debating club in one swell foop. > > I actually considered that: this takes advantage of a metaphysical > loophole. Since humans are officially defined as special, changing an > angel into a human doesn't count as a violent act, since it's pushing > the target *up* the karmic food chain. The fact that it was sung with the intent of rendering Novalis vulnerable to being attacked would push it back into the "violenct act" category, though. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:16:05 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) - -----Original Message----- From: Krishnaswami, Neel To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' Date: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:54 PM Subject: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) >> Third off, is singing this song considered a violent act? If it is, >> no way it would have worked on Novalis... the instant she shows up, >> a Superior-level Seraph of Flowers attunement shuts down the entire >> block. Invoking Novalis is a great way to turn a pitched battlefield >> into a debating club in one swell foop. > >I actually considered that: this takes advantage of a metaphysical >loophole. Since humans are officially defined as special, changing an >angel into a human doesn't count as a violent act, since it's pushing >the target *up* the karmic food chain. Except that in Canon IN, Humans and Celestials mix like Oil and phosphorus. The two kind of critters are as far apart on the Cosmic Evolutionnary Ladder as elephants are from Insects. Humans are Humans, and Celestials are Celestials, and rarely shall the twain meet. (Lillith is one rare exception to the rules). You can't do something as big as "Turn an Archangel into a Human" with a simple song worked out by a mere Demon. That's the kind of effect Vapula spends hours to work out in his darkest labs, and he's got the brainpower of a thousand demons at his beck and call, both inside his own mind and in the minds of his servitors. If there IS a "Song of Tire Irons", then Vapula's already figured out the concept, and Jean's already got the counter-measure worked out. >> And fourth off, Superiors don't really suffer Trauma (not with >> their multi-tasking, they're like Kyriotates that way)... so the >> Archangel of Flowers should have been back down faster than a >> Vessel-killed Malakite, only *this* time *she* Sings first when >> the other side isn't expecting it. > >Taking the Song far more seriously than it deserves... > >It turns the target into an ordinary human. Not "turns this >instantiation into an ordinary human," but "turns the target into >an ordinary human." So no, they lose all their extra forms when >the Song hits, since humans don't have those. > >And when a human dies, they *foof* and an officially ineffable amount >of time later, they reappear at the Gates of Heaven/Hell, or reincarnate. >So that's what happens to a person killed while under the influence. >It's not at all obvious that an archangel would know how to get -out- >of the karmic machinery even after the Song ends, given that even >they know basically nothing about how it works. Or, they just step down from Jacob's Ladder, not too much the worst from wear, as God Himself fixed the problem and sent them back down. The way you describe the effect, this becomes far more then a mere song. This is basically messing around with God's plans for the Symphony, and that just calls for an intentional Divine Intervention. And even if he didn't, what do you think Michael would do to a guy who not only has that kind of power available to him, but tried it out on the closest thing he has to a girlfriend? Here's the strategy in a nutshell: Mike sends an army of Angelic Volonteers to the guy's last known location, and rush him, forcing him to use the song over and over and over again until he runs out of Essence. Then he shows up in person, and tears the guy apart Force by Force, until the only thing left is the Force holding the knowledge of the Song... And Destroys it, making the song Vanish, as no-one is meant to have that kind of knowledge, Angel or Demon. But then, that's my opinion... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 2001 18:14:58 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Pets On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 21:44:41 -0500 Rolland Therrien wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Walton >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 9:23 PM >Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Pets >>--- Rolland Therrien wrote: [domestication vs. pets timeline] >>sentries. They didn't become pets until later. >True enough. But still, I'd think Jordi would've sponsored an Angel of Pets >a lot sooner then the 1950s. Probably as soon as one of his servitors came >back with good things to say about the idea of humans pampering animals, >caring for them as they would a human family member. [snip] it may be that there was a previous holder of the Word of Pets, and this is the latest incarnation. were that the case, this would work just fine. incidentally, i liked the write-up, but agree there's a logic hole there, and this humble patch is all i think you need to make things completely perfect :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:25:08 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) >And even if he didn't, what do you think Michael would do to a guy who >not only has that kind of power available to him, but tried it out on the >closest thing he has to a girlfriend? Well, the "closest thing to a girlfriend" is non-canon. In canon, it's CDaU. However, even in canon, Michael would get screamingly pissed -- protection of the innocent is a significant driving force in his makeup, and if it gets more innocent then Novalis then where the heck did *that* happen? (Not to mention that Zadkiel would literally be frothing at the mouth. She's even more intense on this topic than Michael, plus Novalis is her best friend and one-time mentor.) Anything that takes out an Archangelic Vessel this easily and cheesily will get the Vengeance Squad O' Doom from Heaven -- Michael, Laurence, Gabriel (picking on Novalis is just plain cruel, cruel, cruel), and... ... well, geez, like we *need* more? OK, fine, we'll get it -- toss in Novalis' entire "Friendly" and "Associated" lists. The way I see it, even those angels who don't *agree* with her all still *like* her, because she is one of the most likeable beings in the entire Symphony. Doing nasty things to somebody that well-liked is the equivalent of a signed and notarized suicide note. *eg* - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:37:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. - --- On 21 Mar 01, at 12:39, Rolland Therrien wrote: > > Just so you all know, I've decided to work on a Pyramid > Article for how to > > add Superheroes to the In Nomine Universe. I'm liking it so far... > > My original idea was to have Ethereals take on Superheroic > identities > > based on comics being written, but I'm now unsure as to how > the comicbook > > authors and editors would react to this creation. At least some of the Ethereals wouldn't have to take on superheroic identities -- they would _be_ the actual heroes. To be precise, comics with large enough followings would generate sufficient "worship" to create Ethereals. And just think of the Rites some of these guys would have! *Rescue an innocent *Deliver a criminal to justice *Escape from a villain's death-trap I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:45:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Song of "OK, _Now_ I'm Pissed" (Celestial) This is icky -- not sure I'd want it IMC. If both sides had this, they'd be using on each other (or, rather, the side that was sure they could win would start using it on the other). Even under the Mutually Assured Destruction theory, this is too dangerous to have around. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:46:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Douglas Drysdale Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song ...) On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Rolland Therrien wrote: > Here's the strategy in a nutshell: Mike sends an army of Angelic > Volonteers to the guy's last known location, and rush him, forcing > him to use the song over and over and over again until he runs out > of Essence. > Forgive me for being presumptious, but there seems to be a simple solution for Micheal to deal with this guy without requiring massive numbers of deaths of his Servitors which people have over looked. Doesn't Micheal have the largest number of Saints out of all the Archangels? Think about it... - - Richard Drysdale (rdd2@st-andrews.ac.uk) Balseraph of Fate, Vassal of Archives ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:52:41 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:46:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Rolland Therrien wrote: >>I'm only really at a loss with the mechanics of how >>I should set this up. My original idea was to have >>Ethereals take on Superheroic identities based on >>comics being written, but I'm now unsure as to how >>the comicbook authors and editors would react to >>this creation. >I would use your original idea. It works fine. And >the authors and editors of comic books are extremely >used to being parodied. Yup. Even in Pyramid: Ken Hite did an article on various types of 'historical' Supers campaigns, and part of the fun was apparently trying to guess who was who...* :) Moe "Major Oblivious"** Lane *No In Nomine though, which is really something that should be addressed. I was going to do an IN IST article, but it never gelled. **Long story. Fun GURPS/Champions (two different versions) PC: so inattentive that anything he didn't notice stood an excellent chance of disappearing for real. You haven't lived until you've told a GM that your combat action is, "I make an extra effort to ignore the killer death robot". Hmmm. I wonder how that would translate. Ethereal Song of Motion and Celestial Song of Charm linked, I suppose. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:54:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Celestials for Variant Settings: Kalel, Angel of Superheroes - --- Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Kalel > Elohite of Destiny > Master of Divine Knowledge > Angel of Superheroes Kalel? _KALEL_?!? Oy vay! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:59:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Pentecost - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > Pentecost > Servitor Attunement (Fire) [snip]> > In fact, they can say it in Angelic. Interesting idea, but it's non-canonical by _Biblical_ standards. In Acts chapter 2, the account of Pentecost states that the Apostles were praising God and preaching the Gospel -- and that everyone who heard them heard it in his or her native language. That's more like the Corporeal Song of Tongues with a Charisma bonus thrown in. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "When you have bought your own load of hooey, you know exactly what it is worth." -- Bruce Sterling __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2120 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.