From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 29 10:38:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15769 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:38:17 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA31659 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:43:21 -0600 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:43:21 -0600 Message-Id: <200103291643.KAA31659@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2130 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2130 In this digest: Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> Drac/Frank&Wolfy... Re: IN> I need a Word... Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> GIN cel combat (was: IN origins) Re: IN> Another new angel Re: IN> The Cadre (Part II) IN> Sending angels into Hell Re: IN> I need a Word... Re: IN> Limbo. IN> Eli Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> GIN cel combat (was: IN origins) Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli IN> March 29, 2001 (PK) IN> March 30, 2001 (PK) Re: IN> Cadre Sidebar Suggestion Re: IN> Drac/Frank&Wolfy... Re: IN> Leitmotiv, Dominic: A Dirty Job... Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> Limbo. Re: IN> Limbo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:41:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. At 2:56 PM -0700 3/28/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >I can't get a copy of Heaven and Hell, and I can't find anyone who has a >copy, and I can't find rules for Limbo. Can anyone briefly sum up what >Limbo us, how you get there, and how you get out? Or is that legal on this >list? :-) Limbo is, in one theory, the "rest notes" in the Symphony. Any celestial without a Heart who is corporeally killed goes to Limbo. (Weird Discord and relics may cause exceptions.) Limbo is a place of total sensory deprivation. This does, naturally, sharpen the memory... A being in Trauma, in Limbo, substitutes weeks for days when making recovery rolls. A being not in Trauma, in Limbo, gets 1 Essence a week. (No daily Essence.) Periodically (weekly?), the entity must make a Will roll or attempt to blow all its Essence to try to get out. (If it fails to have enough Essence, then it doesn't get out but blows all its Essence anyway.) There is some detailing in there that you'll have to get the book for. O:> (Heaven & Hell, or GURPS IN.) The Essence gets accumulated (hopefully) and eventually you have enough to build a vessel. Once you have that much, you can make your vessel and escape, at the point of your last corporeal location or its closest point which is not occupied by matter. You can go to Limbo deliberately from the corporeal plane by several minutes' concentration and a Will roll, IIRC; you're not in Trauma in this way. Your buddies can attach 5-word "postcards" to a bit of Essence and toss it into Limbo for you. (This is a learned skill, but practically everyone knows it. Relievers don't have Hearts, see.) If you are in Limbo, you get the Essence for your cache (yay!) and the message. If you are not in Limbo, you receive neither. If someone uses the Celestial Song of Tongues, that works too. You can't communicate the other way, though -- no sending Songs of Tongues _out_ of Limbo. (I think the Canticorum references a Song that might work in Limbo, as an oddity.) Yes, Free Lilim without Hearts will go to Limbo if they do not have a Body Bag tucked away somewhere. While they are in Limbo, any Geas-tokens or Geases owed to them will become insubstantial, as if the Lilim had been soul-killed. Once they get out of Limbo, such things reappear. I think that's everything... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:26:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Drac/Frank&Wolfy... - --- Marc Bowden wrote: > ("C'mon. What do you think 'Dead and Loving It' tasted like?") Banana, of course ("Yes, we have Nosferatu..."). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I need a Word... - --- Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >Specifically, an Angelic Word that: > > > >a), is evocative of the Word of Publicity Stunts, but > > > >b), won't cause a Seraph's brain to explode out of his skull. How about (Agressive) Marketing? Of course, (s)he would be opposed by the Balseraph Demon of Hype. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:46:02 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. > in there that you'll have to get the book for. O:> (Heaven & Hell, or GURPS > IN.) Freeow. I guess I should've read GURPS In Nomine instead of just buying it and adding it to the impending physical disaster that is my shelf of GURPS books. Thanks, I'll look there. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:46:06 -0800 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GIN cel combat (was: IN origins) > At 4:20 PM -0500 3/28/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >So, why was the damage system changed at all? Because the d666 system was > >changed? Why was the d666 system changed? Because forces were added and > >the characteristics were changed? Because SJGames doesn't believe in social > >attributes? ??? > > Since I got involved long all the playtests and whatnot, I have no idea. > [And I'm forwarding the GURPS stuff to ze Busy Spouse, while pondering > some GIN CelCombat notions. At the moment, I'm pondering the idea of breaking > it out into Body/Mind/Soul and having something like "1d3 to determine which > is affected, and then 1d6 is removed from the affected attribute(s)."] Nani? This post has nothing to with GIN, no no no, I'm talking about the conversion fron INS/MV to IN. Though, since you menton it, cel combat in GIN /is also/ messed up, because Will is too high to allow for Aging-esque rolls to reduce attributes. It simply doesn't happen regularly enough to be even a near-equivalent. I agree that once Soul hits are reduced to 0, the victim should lose stats, period. My suggestions: make IQ/Perception/Will split mandatory (which /is/ appropriate because IN relies heavily on Perception and Will as attributes unto themselves). If soul hits reduced to zero, roll 1d6. 1-2 Corporeal, 3-4 Ethereal, 5-6 Celestial. ***** If Corporeal, lose 2 ST, 2 AG and 1 level of Corporeal Power. If Ethereal, lose 2 IQ, 2 HT, and 1 level of Ethereal Power. If Celestial, lose 2 Peception, 2 Will, and 1 level of Celestial Power. If all levels of Corporeal power are lost, your body vanishes, an your Celestial form advantage gains the limitation: always on (-30?%). If all levels of Ethereal power are lost, you're reduced to NPC status, or at least a babbling idiot. If all levels of Celestial power are lost, you're reduced to a Remant (loses all attribute modifiers, Awareness (Symphony), Celestial form, Doesn't fatigue, Essence control +5 (from 9 to 5), Non-reciprocal damage, and Unaging. Gains Taboo traits: Awareness and Celestial investiture. Gains disadvatages Absent-mindedness, and WeakWill -5. Loses native language skill at IQ. If the celestial had no Role, add Zeroed, Confused and Total Amnesia. ***** This reflects both conversion and original IN stats, somewhat. The ST/HT split is very unfortunate in this case. Perhaps the following . . . ***** If Corporeal, lose 2 ST, 2 HT, and 1 level of Corporeal Power. If Ethereal, lose 2 IQ, 2 DX, and 1 level of Ethereal Power. If Celestial, lose 2 Peception, 2 Will, and 1 level of Celestial Power. If all levels of Corporeal power are lost, your body vanishes, an your Celestial form advantage gains the limitation: always on (-30?%). If all levels of Ethereal power are lost, you're reduced to NPC status, or at least a babbling idiot. If all levels of Celestial power are lost, you're reduced to a Remant (loses all attribute modifiers, Awareness (Symphony), Celestial form, Doesn't fatigue, Essence control +5 (from 9 to 5), Non-reciprocal damage, and Unaging. Gains Taboo traits: Awareness and Celestial investiture. Gains disadvatages Absent-mindedness, and WeakWill -5. Loses native language skill at IQ. If the celestial had no Role, add Zeroed, Confused and Total Amnesia. ***** . . . would be more appropriate. But, if you're unwilling to declare Will and Perception to be separate stats, as I imagine, things are even messier, since it's bit inane that through cel combabt you /gain/ levels of Strong Will and Alertness (which would effectively be what would happen if you're reducing IQ but NOT Will or Perception). My suggestion in this case : ***** If Corporeal, lose 2 ST and 2 HT, and 1 level of Corporeal Power If Ethereal, lose 2 IQ and 2 DX, and 1 level of Ethereal Power If Celestial, gain two levels of Weak Will and two levels of Reduced Alertness, and lose 1 level of Celestial Power If all levels of Corporeal power are lost, your body vanishes, an your Celestial form advantage gains the limitation: always on (-30?%). If all levels of Ethereal power are lost, you're reduced to NPC status, or at least a babbling idiot. If all levels of Celestial power are lost, you're reduced to a Remant (loses all attribute modifiers, Awareness (Symphony), Celestial form, Doesn't fatigue, Essence control +5 (from 9 to 5), Non-reciprocal damage, and Unaging. Gains Taboo traits: Awareness and Celestial investiture. Gains disadvatages Absent-mindedness, and at least WeakWill -5 . Loses native language skill at IQ. If the celestial had no Role, add Zeroed, Confused and Total Amnesia. ***** This would make more sense. However, I imagine that more likely . . . If Ethereal, lose 2 IQ, move up a line of the Concentration table on page CI180, and lose 1 level of Ethereal Power. . . . would be preferred by the GURPS elite, I suppose, but I don't like this at all, since this pretty much requires that one own CI for the game ( but the GM should have shelled out the cash for it anyway ), whereas the rest of the game is pretty doable with only the Basic Set (even the artifact creation system). The only problem with this is that, because IQ is the default for both Perception and Will, rolling Ethereal loss repeats the same thing as Celestial loss /and then some/. Gahk. I say mandatory IQ/Perception/Will split, as suggested in CI. - -Perry "mud in your eye" Lloyd perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:15:36 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Another new angel Nice Poem. I once took classes in Poetry writing back in Junior College, ages ago. I'm afraid it's been ages since I've done anything even remotely similar to actual poetry in my writing. I'll have to see if I still have the books they made us buy... - -----Original Message----- From: Genevieve Cogman To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: Re: IN> Another new angel >Creation is a process and an art: >A noun, a finished product we transact >In payment for our toil: a single act >Which we attempt to classify apart >As though it could be wholly separate >From all that is, that has been, that will be -- >Dividing lines between the world and me >In that I am the work that I create. > >There is a pattern that we cannot know; >A word is spoken which we cannot hear; >Our tiny self-creations -- oh, how dear -- >Are links in chains beyond where we can go. >And, fractal in their curves through time and space, >Are measureless in glory and in grace. > >--- > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:15:09 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The Cadre (Part II) >I'm sorry, I can't identify her. What's St. Mary's full name? > He probably meant Mary Shelley, but it ought to be Mary Radcliffe ;O) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:29:24 -0500 From: TJ Howell Subject: IN> Sending angels into Hell So I'm writing this con scenario, and I want to do something different. So I hit on the idea of having some angels go into hell and retrieve a stolen relic. Has anybody done a "into Hell" scenario before and care to give some tips? Some ideas I had to handle logistics were - having a Lilim guide (working off a particulary nasty Geas), having a relic that allowed the angels to disguise their true forms (experimental, of course), and allowing angels (pregens) to know the Demonic tongue (they get dissonance, of course, if they lie with it, but that's what the Lilim's for, right?). TJ Howell _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:54:09 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> I need a Word... >Specifically, an Angelic Word that: > >a), is evocative of the Word of Publicity Stunts, but > >b), won't cause a Seraph's brain to explode out of his >skull. > >Any help, as always, appreciated. > >Moe > >PS I've thought of "Truth in Advertising", thanks. >Too tame for my purposes. :) Then be Honest. A close translation of the Angelic would be "Scripted Events Intended to Garner Attention for the Purpose of Initiating a Merchandising Presentation." (Likely connotations: 'novelty' and 'at least tangentially related to the product or products being merchandised.' Without the last it's dangerously close to bait-and-switch, or false advertising, two concepts far more suited for a Balseraph.) In corporeal speech, you could reasonably shorten it to "Publicity Stunts" or "Brand Awareness Events." William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 02:14:37 +0100 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. At 17:41 28/03/2001 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >The Essence gets accumulated (hopefully) and eventually you have enough to >build a vessel. Once you have that much, you can make your vessel and >escape, at the point of your last corporeal location or its closest point >which is not occupied by matter. That is _really_ going to suck...the poor celestial, having just come out of Limbo, finds itself a hundred miles above the surface of the planet. It'd better have learnt how to survive being dumped unexpectedly in a vacuum... I don't suppose you meant _solid_ matter, by any chance? :) >--emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor >RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Pak ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:57:10 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: IN> Eli Something just occured to me. Eli was probably the second most generally liked archangel next to Yves before his leaving of Heaven. I realized this after reading the various superiors opinions of Eli, and the thing that the most anti-Eli archangels (Laurence and Dominic) have against him is that he abandonned Heaven. That's it. That suggests that when he stayed in Heaven, they didn't have any problem with him. And that now it is not so much that they dislike him, but that he's gone AWOL and at best they think that that is a bad strategic move (and at worse he's defected). I wonder what it was about Eli which made him so agreeable to everyone in Heaven? "We've alway been under seige. The 'Real World' keep shoving us into cornors - -- so we've built some worlds of our own. Now whoever's controlling this... wants to take those worlds away. Well, I call that interplanetary war." -T. Campbell, "Fans: the Fandom Menace" _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:14:15 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. On 28 Mar 2001, 14:15, Kish wrote: ... > It's nowhere. Nowhere at all. ... > Construct yourself a new Vessel, out of Essence. It costs a fortune (15 ... > In the plus column, you can hold unlimited Essence while you're there > (which can't be used for anything other than building a new Vessel), and ... Hrm. In the Beginning there was nothing, and then God said, "Let there be light!" God in Limbo, creating the Universe as His Vessel? Shane. (obCultureXover) GSV What Are The Celestial Applications? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:25:56 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Eli - -----Original Message----- From: Bevan Thomas To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:01 PM Subject: IN> Eli >Something just occured to me. Eli was probably the second most generally >liked archangel next to Yves before his leaving of Heaven. I realized this >after reading the various superiors opinions of Eli, and the thing that the >most anti-Eli archangels (Laurence and Dominic) have against him is that he >abandonned Heaven. That's it. That suggests that when he stayed in Heaven, >they didn't have any problem with him. And that now it is not so much that >they dislike him, but that he's gone AWOL and at best they think that that >is a bad strategic move (and at worse he's defected). I wonder what it was >about Eli which made him so agreeable to everyone in Heaven? Well, there is the fact he was nearly as high as Yves was on the Totem Pole of Archangels in duty and influence. The guy was Archangel of All Friggin' Creation, for gosh'sakes. He was also one of the more serious and professional Archangels on the bloc, having participated in everything from the Garden of Eden experiment to creating all those Religious Artifacts, like the Grail and the Ark. The reason why Dominic is so P*ssed off with Eli suddenly going AWOL is because he expects the Mercurian to be more responsible then that. An important and professional guy like Eli really should know better. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:35:32 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Eli Well, Michael was higher then him, and David is almost as high, and they've got their enemies. And he is not the Archangel of All Creation. Eli is the Archangel of Creation as in things created (artifacts, religions, art, etc.), but not as in everything. >From: "Rolland Therrien" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Eli >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:25:56 -0500 > >> >Well, there is the fact he was nearly as high as Yves was on the Totem Pole >of >Archangels in duty and influence. The guy was Archangel of All Friggin' >Creation, >for gosh'sakes. > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:01:22 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. At 3:46 PM -0700 3/28/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >> in there that you'll have to get the book for. O:> (Heaven & Hell, or >GURPS >> IN.) > >Freeow. I guess I should've read GURPS In Nomine instead of just buying it >and adding it to the impending physical disaster that is my shelf of GURPS >books. Thanks, I'll look there. Note that the Essence costs for vessels have different amounts between GIN and IN -- no Forces in IN. They ought to be sufficiently exhorbitant (I know I mangled that spelling), though. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:05:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> GIN cel combat (was: IN origins) At 5:46 PM -0800 3/28/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >> At 4:20 PM -0500 3/28/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >> >So, why was the damage system changed at all? Because the d666 system >was >> >changed? Why was the d666 system changed? Because forces were added and >> >the characteristics were changed? Because SJGames doesn't believe in >social >> >attributes? ??? >> >> Since I got involved long all the playtests and whatnot, I have no idea. >> [And I'm forwarding the GURPS stuff to ze Busy Spouse, while pondering >> some GIN CelCombat notions. At the moment, I'm pondering the idea of >breaking >> it out into Body/Mind/Soul and having something like "1d3 to determine >which >> is affected, and then 1d6 is removed from the affected attribute(s)."] > >Nani? This post has nothing to with GIN, no no no, I'm talking about the >conversion fron INS/MV to IN. I know. Missed a space in that bracket -- it's referring to something from last week or earlier this week or something. >Gahk. I say mandatory IQ/Perception/Will split, as suggested in CI. You're right. I'm unwilling to do that. O:> I'm still puttering on the idea. (And it's late, and I'm short on sleep, and I have a cranky baby, and one of my cats had to be put to sleep at 1am Sundaymorning. And Baen rejected my novel. O:p And, to top things off, spouse is doing a meeting in LA, so he flew out Tuesday, had the meeting today, and will be back at 9pm tomorrow. And he may be sick, and he was sick monday, and this week has mostly sucked. And it's late, or I wouldn't have ranted. O:J ) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:08:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. At 2:14 AM +0100 3/29/01, Pak Chan wrote: >At 17:41 28/03/2001 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>[...] at the point of your last corporeal location or its closest point >>which is not occupied by matter. [...] >I don't suppose you meant _solid_ matter, by any chance? O:pbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpttttt! Matter _is_ solid. It's just that some of it is easier to displace than the rest. They don't arrive in the middle of a statue that someone left there inconsiderately, is what I mean. Nyah. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:55:24 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Eli - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bevan Thomas" <> They're politically active, and Michael is the most prominent member of the war faction... Actually, considering that Eli was (is) part of the peace faction and Michael doesn't exactly like him now, I'd say it was quite possible and even likely that Michael was hostile to Eli before he defected, and is overtly neutral to him now mostly because Dominic is so hostile to him. It's also possible Laurence didn't like him even before he jumped ship (though if I were to run a game set before Eli left, I'd probably just mark Michael Hostile to him, Dominic Neutral, and Laurence Associated [because Laurence isn't Neutral to anybody). --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:11:59 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Eli According to Superiors 1, Laurence has always admired Eli, since he is a potent archangel, one of the first. One of the reasons that he is so hostile to him right now is because Laurence feels betrayed, he can't believe that somebody as powerful, as wise as Eli would do something so irresponsible. >From: "Kish" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Eli >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:55:24 -0800 It's also >possible Laurence didn't like him even before he jumped ship _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 05:00:39 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Eli It's because he slept with them all. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:27:35 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Eli >From: "Bevan Thomas" >And he is not the Archangel of All Creation. Eli is the >Archangel of Creation as in things created (artifacts, religions, art, >etc.), but not as in everything. Oh really? Then I suppose that Novalis is only the Archangel of Plant Reproductive Systems? - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:36:03 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Eli - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Bertish" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:27 PM Subject: Re: IN> Eli > >From: "Bevan Thomas" > > >And he is not the Archangel of All Creation. Eli is the > >Archangel of Creation as in things created (artifacts, religions, art, > >etc.), but not as in everything. > > Oh really? Then I suppose that Novalis is only the Archangel of Plant > Reproductive Systems? I think that what he meant was that Eli was the Archangel of Creation (verb), not the Archangel of Creation (noun). - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 01:14:13 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Eli From: "Charles Glasgow" > I think that what he meant was that Eli was the Archangel of Creation > (verb), not the Archangel of Creation (noun). Why can't he be both? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:21:04 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Eli Well, because then Eli's word covers all the other words. In fact, then his word is more powerful then Yves', because it covers Destinity AND Fate and everything in between. At least in canon, that makes Eli a little more powerful then he actually is (though he is still one of the most powerful Archangels). >From: "Eric Bertish" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Eli >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 01:14:13 -0500 > >From: "Charles Glasgow" > > > I think that what he meant was that Eli was the Archangel of Creation > > (verb), not the Archangel of Creation (noun). > >Why can't he be both? > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:23:08 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Eli > > I think that what he meant was that Eli was the Archangel of Creation > > (verb), not the Archangel of Creation (noun). > > Why can't he be both? > > -- Casca He can; words are not, as i have pointed out before, as rigid and concrete as they might be. The holder of a word has a lot of influence over what that word encompasses. Totally aside from that, though, its your game, and you get to make the word whatever you want it to be. Until we get a superiors write up, even the cannon is up in the air. Personally, I see Creation referring to the ongoing growth of the symphony (mixed metaphors, anyone?). I get the feeling that he pretty much set the process in motion, on a grand scale, and sat back and watched it unfold. He took off and forgot a lot, because he decided he needed a new perspective. But that's just me. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 01:32:30 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Eli > Well, because then Eli's word covers all the other words. In fact, then his > word is more powerful then Yves', because it covers Destinity AND Fate and > everything in between. At least in canon, that makes Eli a little more > powerful then he actually is (though he is still one of the most powerful > Archangels). He's already hugely powerful: he makes relics with as much difficulty as people change their socks, and his Word contains no inherent Dissonance (a handy trick that no other hugely powerful Superior, on either side, has been able to manage.) So why not take that final leap and declare that yes, his Word IS that big? Or you could be really heretical and say he's Jesus. Then, if God is the universe, and Jesus is God, then Eli is the Universe and therefore All Creation. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 04:55:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> March 29, 2001 (PK) Song of Bounty (Corporeal) This song causes all crops within (Song Level times performer's total Forces) in yards to grow plentifully and well. For the next (CD times Essence spent) weeks, the crops affected will grow perfectly under any conditions. Even in snow. Or drought. Or without fertilizer. This Song is known to all Superiors, but is most commonly given out by Novalis. It is also known by many of the Ethereal Fertility Gods and Goddesses (Ishtar, etc.) Affiliation: Creation, Flowers, Fertility* Essence Requirement: 1 (maximum 4). Degree of Disturbance: None (* If the GM allows Ethereal Affiliation in his/her game; very non-canon.) - --- Unknown to most common angels, this Song is actually a variation on the Corporeal Song of Fruition. To discourage the concept of angels knowing the forbidden "Songs of Fruition", it has been renamed and taught to angels as a completely unique Song. Any Songmaster who has heard this Song and the Song of Fruition will immediately realize the truth; but such an angel can generally be trusted. (Yes, the Corporeal Song of Fruition is technically legal... but Superiors are *still* very skittish when it comes to *any* of those Songs. Best to just not encourage your Servitors to explore Fruition at all, you see.) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Some people desperately want to be a a part of the crowd. Some people are special; they stand out in a crowd... And then there's the ME PHI ME - WE STAND ALONE. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 05:53:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> March 30, 2001 (PK) Scala Paradisi Unique Artifact The creation of a venerated Catholic Saint, this exquisite and ornate tome describes the means by which divine perfection may be attained. It does so by aphorisms, parables, sermons, and other occasionally obfuscatory means, detailing the "thirty steps" towards true piety. The book is a difficult read, taking approximately (30 - Intelligence) hours to complete. Demons reading the book will realize its danger quickly enough; those foolish enough to read a full chapter or more will take 1d6 Soul Hits and a point of Dissonance. Mortals will be unaffected unless they have manifested a sixth Force and are not Symphonically Aware - in that case, make a d666 roll against the mortal's Perception when they complete the book; on a success, they become Symphonically Aware. The book is best given to angels, however. An angel with a single point of dissonance who reads and understands the material in the Scala will find his piety renewed, and his Dissonance lost. This may only be done once per angel, unfortunately - once read, the book should really be passed on to someone else who needs it. Also, it will have no effect on angels with more than one point of Dissonance! Such a condition makes it too difficult to fully comprehend the lessons taught therein. Still, though limited, this relic finds much use amongst the Host. It is currently in the care of Archangel Laurence. Point Cost: N/A - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Anything sounds profound if you put it in quotation marks and sign it Anonymous." -- Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 04:46:44 -0500 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: Re: IN> Cadre Sidebar Suggestion Maurice Lane wrote: >> Worsel >> Seraph Master of the Armies of God (Laurence) >> Angel of Ruthlessness > > _Cool._ This is going in (if you don't mind). :) I *so* don't mind. :) I was going to do Nadreck, but sadly, I can't get him to be an Angel or inspired by one no matter what I do. Too willing to cheerfully slaughter the people under his control to be inspired by a Kyrio (even one of Judgement), too temperamental to be an Elohite, and too selfish and egotistical all around. Sigh... Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 05:55:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Drac/Frank&Wolfy... - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Ethereals do not (to anyone's knowledge) go to Limbo. They > just go back to the Marches Oops! My bad. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:15:10 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Leitmotiv, Dominic: A Dirty Job... Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:19:36 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Leitmotiv, Dominic: A Dirty Job... >I guess I'm just a bright kinda guy at heart. ^^ I >tend to see all the Archangels as good and well >intentioned at heart, if only for different reasons >and with different methods. >I completely agree. I've noticed that most of the >people on this list are more inclined toward Dark or >Low Contrast games than Bright ones. (Moe, of course, >does this just long enough to get me off my guard and >then comes up with something like his recent Laurence >article.) But of course. I am, after all, fond of the Unitarian approach to IN (I wonder if Eric Burns saved his explanation to disk. I couldn't even begin to tell you when that analysis of the various types of IN styles showed up*). Consistency _in_ a piece is good. Consistency in the _types_ of pieces you produce is ... nice, I guess. Anyway, and to pull this back on topic, I just wanted to point out that you can have Bright yet Low Contrast stuff: the two don't preclude the other (I certainly _hope_ not, because it's a fun place to play in). :) Moe *Yup, I wanna be reminded, if it's convenient for anyone to do so. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:48:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. So I gather that any celestial could, in fact, fashion any sort of vessel they want, provided they either: 1) Have a will of steel and plenty of time, to destroy their old vessel to make the Limbo jump, then wait long enough to accumulate the Essence to make the new vessel. or: 2) Have enough allies to pump in Essence fast enough to make the new vessel quickly. Okay. Interesting. Can you make MORE than one vessel while in Limbo? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:58:46 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. Makes me think immeadiatly of black market vessel sellers. Some one goes to all the trouble to mae a vessel on the side, sells it for say, double the essence it cost to make, and hey presto, you have a vessel that your superiors dont know about. The question is, are vessals tradable? Stubiel-hey yeah i got a goat vessel, you wanna swap? Tangiel-yeah sure, i got a little kiddy vessal, so thats about een for role and vessel essence cost, cool, i always wanted to be a goat. Stubiel-right i get to be little joey smith, 4th grader and you get to be 'bleety the goat' pet of mr and mrs jones. - -patang swap- Stubiel- oh and by the way, little bleety is gonna get sacrificed in a couple of nights, nice doing business with you. Tangiel- thats ok, little joeys father is possesed by a shedim at the mo, have a nice night... >So I gather that any celestial could, in fact, fashion any >sort of vessel they want, provided they either: > >1) Have a will of steel and plenty of time, to destroy their >old vessel to make the Limbo jump, then wait long enough to >accumulate the Essence to make the new vessel. > >or: > >2) Have enough allies to pump in Essence fast enough to make >the new vessel quickly. > >Okay. Interesting. Can you make MORE than one vessel while >in Limbo? > >Earl Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:35:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Limbo. cassandra benner wrote: > Makes me think immeadiatly of black market vessel sellers. That would add some fun color to the game, certainly. But as I understand the mechanics, vessels can't be detached and swapped this way. Or can they? In "A Dark Dream," in the main book, doesn't the demon Marcus appropriate the spare vessel (in a body bag) of another demon? Perhaps, if you make two vessels in Limbo, or have spare vessels when you go into Limbo for your manufacturing run, you can come out and put the extra vessel in a body bag for re-sale. I don't recall how the body-bag mechanics work, but if "A Dark Dream" was canonical on this point, it sounds like it should be possible. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2130 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.