From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 1 20:25:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02616 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:25:19 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA27349 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:32:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:32:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200105020132.UAA27349@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2196 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 1 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2196 In this digest: IN> Torpiel Re: IN> Torpiel (whoops) Re: IN> Consider Ivy IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... Re: IN> Celestial Glory Question IN> Fallen Moelane Re: IN> Consider Mikey Re: IN> Fallen Moelane IN> Consider Mikey Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... Re: IN> Moelane Re: IN> Consider Ivy IN> Gabrielite dissonance (Re: A thought about Dominic and Gabriel...) Re: IN> Consider Ivy Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... Re: IN> Fallen Moelane IN> The sanity of Angels IN> Michael's Plan... Re: IN> Gabrielite dissonance (Re: A thought about Dominic and Gabriel...) IN> Consider Marc IN> Consider blades Re: IN> Consider blades Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... Re: IN> Consider Ivy IN> David's Sigil Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... Re: IN> Moelane Re: IN> Moelane IN> Consider Marc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 08:39:50 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> Torpiel This fellow featured in one of my darker campaigns a while back. I just stumbled upon his sheet and thought I'd share. Torpiel The Demon of Forbidden Knowledge Knight of Hidden Doors Calabite of Secrets Word Forces: 5 Corporeal: 3 Str: 6, Agi: 6 Ethereal: 5 Int: 12, Pre: 8 Celestial: 4 Will: 8, Per: 8 Vessels: Human Male(handsome 16 year old)/2 Cha+1, Human Male(unassuming middle aged)/3, Moth/1 Role: Tim Oppenhiem/6, Child Genius/5 Skills: Dodge/4, Survival/3, Languages(Eng, Fre, Ger)/5, Psychology/5, Chemistry/4, Engineering/3, Small Weapon(switchblade)/3, Lying/6 Songs: Concealment(Corp/Cele)/6, Entropy(Cele)/3, Healing(Corp)/3, Motion(Corp)/4, Form(Eth)/5, Forbidding(Eth)/3 Attunements: Calabim of Secrets, Lucifer's Document Shredder, Seal of the Confessional, The Demon of Forbidden Knowledge Word Power: As the Demon of Forbidden Knowledge, Torpiel can look at *anyone* and immediately discover the one secret that they would love to learn. This secret is the top of the list to the subject and is always something personally important to them. Most humans would love to know the meaning of life or the secret of eternal youth. These are ferreted out by the attunement. Only *obtainable* secrets are revealed to Torpiel. Of course if he uses it on an Angel, he could get anything..... anything. Word Rites: Prevent someone from discovering their desired secret (works only if they are searching for it). Permanently eliminate a source of Angelic knowledge.(The local angelic snitch to the grand tether to Yves) Everyone has a theory about Torpiel. And of course, everyone thinks they are right. Stories in Hell of the Balseraph Torpiel, who orchestrated the capture of Jean's earthly renewable energy facility. Of the Habbalah Torpiel, who prevented Janus himself from finding out just what Valefor is. The Impudite Torpiel who charmed his way into Andreaphlus bedroom and out again with a million little secrets from the dark lords lips. Then there are those who *know* the truth. What Torpiel really is. And they know that he is a Djinn. No one really knows. Except Torpiel, and Alaemon. Torpiel has no history. He simply doesn't exist in the past. People have gone digging...... and when the bodies are found it looks as though they messed with the *wrong* demon. It is impossible to tell what Torpiel actually is. Not a soul knows when he is around, because he always looks different. One minute a Balseraph the next a Habbalah, then a Shedite. Torpiel likes it that way. The more they want to know about him, the longer he can keep it from them and the more his Word grows. Not bad for a once second rate Calabite of Cruelty.... or was that a Balseraph? Torpiel is a sadistic lier. He is evil to the core and he enjoys controlling peoples suffering. His main operation is to discover a burning secret in someones mind. Then find out what the truth is behind that secret. He has become really good at it. His role as a Child Genius lets him probe many different people for their secrets. Tim gets to go everywhere in the world on scholarships for medical research and physics. Given that Torpiel is about 50x smarter than Einstein was he usually finishes his work in no time flat and then he goes on the prowl for information. Once he has found the truth about the secret he leads his subject across unobvious clues to the truth. Once the subject desires the secret he leads him on and on, constantly creating blocks to confound and frustrate the subject. Then when the subject is right on the verge of discovering the truth Torpiel appears with the secret in hand. Usually it's a book or a CD or a professor or a family member. Then Torpiel attacks the subjects mind with his entropy Song, causing him mental anguish. He torments the subject with little bits of the truth and then when the subject is ready.... he destroys the secret. Right in front of the subject, he fully applies his Resonance to the secret so that the subject can watch all the truth he has ever wanted slip away. Then he leaves that last little torment, he hisses to the subject. "I know the truth." And then fades from sight. He sticks around just to revel in the suffering of the subject for a while before heading off. When two people are after the same secret he uses his Seal of the Confessional to deny the knowledge to one of the two. Then he will reveal to the other one that his collegue knows the truth. This usually results in the one who doesn't know becoming very angry when the Sealed one can't reveal the secret. Torpiel then begins the first process with the unSealed subject, and laughs all the way. BTW, if Raziel ever got his hands on Torpiel it would be all over. Torpiel thinks the same way. Then there is that theory that Raziel Fell and became Torpiel.... ahhh, but he's a Balseraph not a Calabite. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 08:44:04 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Torpiel (whoops) Sorry guys about the repost. The one about Moe as the Angel of Forbidden Knowledge made me take a look at this guy again.... accidentally hit Send instead of Save. Oh well, nice contrast anyway. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:58:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:52:20 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy >Moe, the scary thing is that as far as I can see, >she's gone totally barking mad. Well, _yeah_.* Normal setting Novalis, this isn't. What, the rest of you thought that this is how I think she _normally_ operates? :) Keer-ipes...** Moe *Well, maybe not clinically insane. I was aiming for a good personality type for a Dark Low-Contrast Novalis. **BTW, answer 5 would be, 99.975% of the time: "Well, Novalis asked me to do X for her because she said that it was important, and I said 'yes' because I love her. She didn't think I should keep it a secret or anything: in fact, she told me that it was all right to tell you, if you asked. Would you like to know more?" Unless you've got a campaign where Seraphim can perceive the rest of the paragraph as ... "because she's planning to take over the Council, and pumping you guys full of meaningless but true information until you explode will keep you out of the loop, and just _how_ are you blasting through a Superior's ineffability screen, anyway?", this won't tip anybody off. She's the only one that knows the Big Picture, after all, and that makes the entire thing fuzzy. What would come through - well, Superiors politick. Not the Inquisition's problem, unless Hell or Falling's involved. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:57:53 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... I think I finally figured out why Gabriel is so hostile to Dominic... The Elohite of Fire Attunement and the Seraphim of Fire attunements are both strong in Gabby's mind, are they not? Dominic is, after all, Heaven's Grand Inquisitor, it's major Boogieman. When Nikki gets involved, Angels tend to be put through a psychological wringer before being let go, and some end up getting Cast Out or worst... Like it or not, this can be considered Cruelty. Necessary Cruelty, perhaps, but Cruelty nonetheless. Gabriel can't stand seeing her fellow Angels being tortured psychologically by the more fanatical Triads, no more then she can stand seeing Dominic refuse to accept how unnecessary that Cruelty is. ...So why doesn't Gabriel just confront Dominic about it? Because of her Mercurian of Fire attunement. She also knows that Dominic is constantly blaming himself for Lucifer and the Fall, and that he's established the Divine Inquisition to try and prevent another Lucifer from happening. So she's torn, really. By not doing anything, She's allowing Dominic to continue his mental torture of the Host... But if she confronts Dominic about the Inquisition, she risks damaging his fragile hold on sanity... Either way, she risks hurting someone. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:55:18 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Glory Question - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: IN> Celestial Glory Question > Has anyone written up a GURPS IN version of the > Celestial Glory martial art styles from the Pyramid > article yet? > > And if so, where can I find it? > > Moe I'm on it. - -Perry. KfC perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 17:07:08 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Fallen Moelane Quick thought ... Maurice*, Calabite Demon Prince of Heresy Do you know how disgustingly _easy_ it would be to get Moe to Fall? "The world is ... flawed, at best. But, if you look at it the right way, you'll see that it's really just a bunch of tiny pieces put together ... and if you take them apart and move them around a little ..." Later. Jonathan *Who nobody even thinks about calling "Space Cowboy"** **Or "Gangster of Love," for that matter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:05:09 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Mikey > > Are all Superior-level Word-Bound this truly locked inside their own > > solipsistic visions? That far removed from ever actually connecting with > > their peers? That blinded by one, and only one, monocular-focused inner > > vision? All of them? > > > Of course they are. Especially the older ones. They may come to change > their interpretation of their words over time, but a being that draws that > much power from a word will naturally be ruled by it. I'd have to disagree here, especially on the solipsitic viewpoints. The -only- thing that seperates an angel from a demon is that angels are -inherently- selfless, while demons have chosen to go against that. The viewpoints here might make sense for a demon prince, or an angel cruising for a fall, but a true angel (leaving out the question fo what that means) would have their viewpoint, even as a wordbound, modified by the fact that they are in connection with the True Symphony, and thus wouldn't be able to simply say "My Word is All That Is, and I am the only one who could truly Understand.", since they're recieving a constant reminder that this is Not The Case. Well, that's what I think, anyway. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:09:50 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Moelane From: "Jonathan Walton" > > Maurice* GROOOOOOOOOOOOOAN!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:11:51 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Consider Mikey Actually the weird part is a part of me appreciates that Michael is exactly like this. A being so utterly dispassionate, old, powerful, and enigmatically wise that no other being from Novalis to Laurence to Dominic can even HOPE to comprehend the inner workings of his thoughts. Novalis sees him a great warrior but can't understand how utterly MEANINGLESS all the deaths and damaged souls can be in a billion years time... Yet Mikey understands that in 100 billion years time the damage is all just a temper tantrum that will die down or be uprooted. Laurence sees a great warrior who is supremely confident in God's will and recognizes the inherent untruth of Balseraph lies. Michael is the original leader of the Host however who understands just how pathetically unimportant the entire rebellion is in the grand scheme of things and in how a hundred million years no one will even remember what a demon was in all likelihood or care about what who did what to them. Dominic saw arrogance and pride in what he did... Michael merely saw it as a method of momentum because he knew that starting anew could only occur when every last demon had been swept away and the old order crushed to dust. The ammount of property damage was immaterial because in a few generations it would be fixed anyway by the passage of time. There is no need to mourn the dead when life moves on and suffering is a part of life. That's vision and it's charismatic vision. Extremely mad by our standards but perhaps a glimpse into the mind of the divine and hellish more than we think perhaps. - -Charlemagne P.S. The Disturbing fact is that I think Michael would entirely approve of Ivy but Novalis would be torn between the fact that Michael views the War NOT as the focus of his life but also the fact his essential nature is so far removed from the very human nature she embodies. I think it's a good look at the Seraphim too. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:17:33 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... >I think I finally figured out why Gabriel is so hostile to Dominic... > >The Elohite of Fire Attunement and the Seraphim of Fire >attunements are both strong in Gabby's mind, are they not? Which raises a very interesting question about Gabrielites.... and how they have *the worst* Attunements. Do they work on Demons or Angels or just Mortals. This is something which has posed a problem in my games. My player is the Angel of Balance, an Elohite of Fire. He ran into a Gamester group with a couple of Habbalah in it. Now I said that his Elohite of Fire Attunement explodes into action when the Habbalah show up. The problem is that the Demons can just go back to Hell whilst my player racks up Dissonance like no tomorrow. Does it work on Celestials or Not? Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:18:58 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Moelane > Moelane, Ofanite Archangel of Forbidden Knowledge I'd been thinking of something like this for some time. I thought I'd get flamed for it. :::) Fun stuff. Phillip, Angel of Renventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:22:39 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy - -----Original Message----- From: Maurice Lane To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:21 PM Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:52:20 -0500 >From: "Charles Glasgow" >Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy > >>Moe, the scary thing is that as far as I can see, >>she's gone totally barking mad. > >Well, _yeah_.* Normal setting Novalis, this isn't. Ok, if only because no-one else asked... Who's Ivy? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:51:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Gabrielite dissonance (Re: A thought about Dominic and Gabriel...) At 9:17 AM +1200 5/2/01, Alex Liddell wrote: >>I think I finally figured out why Gabriel is so hostile to Dominic... >> >>The Elohite of Fire Attunement and the Seraphim of Fire >>attunements are both strong in Gabby's mind, are they not? > >Which raises a very interesting question about Gabrielites.... and how they >have *the worst* Attunements. > >Do they work on Demons or Angels or just Mortals. Celestials, ethereals, humans, yes. >when the Habbalah show up. The problem is that the Demons can just go back >to Hell whilst my player racks up Dissonance like no tomorrow. Only 1 note of dissonance, IIRC; it's Windys who have the evil dissonance that keeps on giving. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:52:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy At 5:22 PM -0400 5/1/01, Rolland Therrien wrote: >Ok, if only because no-one else asked... > >Who's Ivy? Character in a Xanth book. But I think Moe means consider the plant, and how it softly grows and entwines and digs in its roots... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:29:47 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... >When Nikki gets involved, *Blink. Blinkblink. Sound of paradigm turning 90 degrees.* You know, I'm NEVER going to be able to take him seriously again, thanks to you. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:37:44 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Moelane Then again, I did put some really bad plays on words in two of my "Gone to Graveyards" installments, so I suppose I'm not exactly entitled to throw the first stone... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:42:54 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The sanity of Angels >Well, your tastes my vary, but what's fun about imagining a universe where >the lunatics all run the asylum, plotting against each other at every turn? Well that's where it's gotta be examined. If you had the power to create a planet would it be wrong of you not to fill it up with yummy fruits and vegetables, eliminate all disease, and make it full of fuzzy bunny type creatures for your inhabitants who can't feel pain, suffering, temptation, or hunger? The problem is that would produce whiny selfish ignroant slugs and I imagine it's Lucifer's paradise. Everything you want, no consequences. Yet by actions your creating a world where fear, suffering, death, and even the possibility of corruption must exist and are a party to it. As a human being can we really grasp this mindset? Yes but I doubt it would occur to them to do so because it requires a great deal of love, patience, and understanding of the world's essential cosmos....and perception that simply does not exist in a limited human form. In this case Michael, David, and Yves I think view the universe as really going to some inevitable goal where demons are just really a building problem....like protesters for a Dam. Eli is the only one whose totally re-evaluating his mindset on the matter and Uriel just got impatient with details so he eradicated an entire legions of beings in something he viewed probably equivalent to exterminating cockroaches on the sight, a one day operation which he couldn't understand what everyone was getting so worked up over. Dominic, Blandine, Marc, Novalis, however are effectively nothing more in my mind than humans who have been given words. Janus is much the same and even Jordi in the fact that they have perceptions and knowledge far greater than any other human could ever comprehend but still cannot acurately comprehend the "First Generation" and their goals. Thus Novalis relates Michael to her word and Laurence likens Michael to his and Dominic tries to define Michael's behavior to his word. The "Second Generation" Archangels cannot understand that their words are viewed as mere fragments of universal Symphonic fundemnatls and really they are no where near as wise, holy, or understanding of God's purpose. To quote Apcolypse from the X-men cartoon regarding his being a mutant "I am as far above them as they are above you." Is it any wonder why Khalid despises dominic for trying no less than THREE of the Elders with Eli comming up and he's practically a worshiper of Gabriel's memory as a male archangel? He and Laurence (the Archangels of the "third Generation of Angels") are in awe of the 1st, respectful to the Second, but much closer to human ideals like Islam and Christianity than even Novalis and Blandine can comprehend. One has to wonder if a Dinosaur's awakened soul transformed also into a Saint has the intellectual reasoning of an Angel created at a specific time and if over time has gained the wisdom of a Second Generation Angel and vice versa for a human of Ancient Rome and a Archangel of the Third Generation. Hell is abit ahead of Heaven in production of Celestials and I wonder if Laurence and Khalid are the Archangels of Human ideals whether or not Fleurity and Fufur are the "Fourth generation" representing Human Minutia. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:00:42 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Michael's Plan... "The Irony of it is... I really started thinking of this plan when the Hyena brought me up for that "Pride" charge. He was right, up to a point, you know. Not that there's anything wrong with being proud of your accomplishments, of course. When you can bloody well do it, it's not Over-confidence. "But I just sat there, as Dominic kept going on and on about how, when I went into battle, I focused too much on my own personal fights, and not on the whole battlefield, and that I was too stubborn to back down, even when necessary... ...And you know what? He was right. All of it. I am proud, stubborn, and when I get into battle, I focus on the moment, not on the overall battle. "And as he said all that, I realized that was no way for a battle-field commander to act, especially in a campaign as important as the War going on. Warlords can only do so much, after all. So after God herself pardoned me, I resigned from my command of the Heavenly Armies, and let Uriel handle the complex job of Executive Command, while I focused on being an officer. "Unfortunetly, Uriel was too focused on his word to handle a job as ambiguous as commanding God's armies, I think. The Purity Crusade... is still a questionable subject amongst us Angels. Some argue it was necessary, others claim the opposite. Me, I'd like to think something had to be done about the Pagan Gods. ...But maybe the Purity Crusade wasn't it. "Then, when Uriel got recalled into the Higher Heavens, Laurence got appointed in his place. Now, I was just as shocked as the rest of the Host when I saw this: God overlooks the likes of David and Gabriel, and appoints this young Malakite, barely wet under the wings, into Uriel's vacant seat? A kid who never even saw the Fall? "And then it hit me. That was the point. Laurence doesn't remember the Fall, and holds no negative emotions tied to it. To him, it's just abstract history. This means he won't lose his focus going after a Fallen brother, abandonning his post to get into a Duel... ...Like I would. "And then there's his Word, which really fits in better for his position then mine does. I embody War in all it's personal, gritty aspects; hand to hand combat, argumentative debate, extreme sports... Anytime someone sets himself up against someone or something, I'm there. "But The Sword fits better for the general of God's army, truth be told. Laurence sees himself not as a warrior, but just as a weapon, wielded by God. He has no pride in his victories, no shame in his defeats, just satisfaction in knowing he's followed God's plans as best as he understands them. "So that's why I'm not going to challenge him to take over God's armies again. Let Laurence handle battlefield commanding. He's getting better at it every year, and by the time Armageddon starts, he should be more then skilled enough to lead Heaven to victory in battle. "And what about me, you ask? Oh, I'll be fighting, but not side-by-side Laurence and David... ...I've got a plan, you see." "When The Final Battle begins, I'll pick up my best axe, then I'll just plow my way through the closest tether to The War, then through Gehenna, cutting a path through the Demonic legions until I find my target: Baal. "And when I find Baal, I'll challenge him to battle me, right there and then. Or maybe I'll just charge him personally, we'll see; either way, Baal won't be able to retreat from that battle to lead his troops. He'll be stuck fighting me one on one, while Laurence is coming in with the others behind me. "So while Baal and I are stuck in a duel, his troops are going to get slaughtered by Laurence, David, Gabriel and the others, because let's face it, Baal's too much of a control freak to put in officers competant enough to lead without his input, is he? "And that's the beauty of the plan. I'll be doing what I do best: Being a Warrior, while Laurence will do what he does best, which is being a Commander. "To each his own..." - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:04:07 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielite dissonance (Re: A thought about Dominic and Gabriel...) > >when the Habbalah show up. The problem is that the Demons can just go >back > >to Hell whilst my player racks up Dissonance like no tomorrow. > >Only 1 note of dissonance, IIRC; it's Windys who have the evil dissonance >that keeps on giving. I thought the clock reset once the time was exceeded. Oh well, that's good for John. Thanks _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:32:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> Consider Marc And now, for contrast, a completely sane Archangel. It's hard being in my position. Always in the middle, trying to bring the others together from their various corners. Still, someone has to do the job, and I was the one chosen for it. If there's one thing I can't ignore, it's the need Heaven has for me and my Word. For without me, the ties that bind the The Host together would be unduly strained, perhaps to the point of snapping. The others, understandably, have a narrow point of view, tending to see everything through the lens of their Word. I don't have that limitation. I lack that myopia, that luxury of certainty, for it is necessary for me to have a wider perspective. The ability to see other viewpoints, to understand another's position, is an essential part of Trade. Thus it's my duty to help them understand each other. It's up to me to help them accomodate each other's priorities. It's my job to smooth ruffled feathers and help everyone arrive at a happy medium. The fact that nobody feels particularly close to me proves I'm doing my job well. If I'm nobody's favorite, than I must be treating everyone fairly. It all balances out in the end. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:41:54 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Consider blades (Needs a bit more work, but I decided to go ahead and take a stab at Laurence* before anybody else beat me to it...) The humans occasionally manage to reach heights of insight that astound even me. One of them once wrote that if one places a cat inside a box with material that will, if released, kill it, that there is no way of telling whether the cat is alive or dead without opening the box. Until the box is opened, he went on to say, the cat exists in a state both alive and not alive. So long as the box remains shut, the life and non-life of the cat balances upon a razor's edge. Another once wrote that understanding is a three-edged sword. "Your side, my side, and the truth," is how he put it. I prefer to think of the three sides in a different way. To me, they are "helping Heaven, helping Hell, and helping neither." But there is a fourth side the human writer did not consider, and that would be "hindering neither." Or to place it in terms of the scientist's cat, a state of helping both Heaven and Hell. Flowers, noble though her goals may be, often finds herself in this fourth position in her approach toward the Fallen. But I can see that her goal is to help Heaven, and she helps Heaven almost infinitely more than she helps Hell, and so despite my admitted impatience, I bear her no malice. Eli, however, helps neither Heaven nor Hell in his dereliction of his duties as archangel. Angels are much like swords, when you think about it. Each of us has a proper place and function. We are each meant to weild or be weilded, but Creation refuses to do either. Until such time as he acknowledges his place once more, that is something I neither can nor will forgive. Not all blades are swords, of course. Where Flowers is the blade of shears, harvesting flowers from Hell where she can, Judgment is the scalpel that excises the diseased elements of our number, who takes those who would turn upon their weilders, and blunts them. War, fond of axes though he may be, is the finest of blades to use against the enemy, a claymore against which no opponent nor shield may stand. But his vision when personally involved is too narrow. While he weilds others with excellently, when he himself steps upon the field, he needs to be weilded by another of proper skill. And while I acknowledge his greater skill in single combat, he acknowledges mine in keeping the whole of the battle in view when I take the field myself. Trade is like unto the stiletto that found its way between the ribs of many a corrupt merchant prince during the human Renaissance. Even so do I use him in such a capacity against the modern merchant princes sworn to Hell's service. And myself? I am both the hand that weilds the various blades of Heaven, and the blade weilded by the hand of God himself. Could one ask for more honor than that? *Yes, I know how bad a pun it was. But I couldn't help myself. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:48:13 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Consider blades - -----Original Message----- From: Prodigal To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: IN> Consider blades >(Needs a bit more work, but I decided to go ahead and take a stab at >Laurence* before anybody else beat me to it...) [snip] >And myself? I am both the hand that weilds the various blades of Heaven, and >the blade weilded by the hand of God himself. Could one ask for more honor >than that? Congratulations, Prodigal... You have, in my opinion, captured Laurence's attitudes wonderfully. ^^ - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:06:19 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... From: "Rolland Therrien" <> Because he put her (him, then) on trial? --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:07:14 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... From: "Alex Liddell" <> Why wouldn't they work on celestials? --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:09:01 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Consider Ivy At 12:52 PM -0400 5/1/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 8:33 PM -0700 4/30/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >[snip] > >Hee hee hee. Well, now everyone knows why I wanted to put >Chris with the Eli/Novalis/Jordi trio, instead of Zadkiel, >don't they? Heck, even I now know why it felt so right... > >(Nitpick: no Council before the Fall. O:> ) Er? I could have sworn Lucifer was the head of the Seraphim Council before the Fall. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:23:44 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> David's Sigil Does anyone have a scan of David's sigil from Sup1? If so, please email me privately. Thanks. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 12:46:35 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> A thought about Dominic and Gabriel... ><they >have *the worst* Attunements. > >[...] > >Does it work on Celestials or Not?>> > >Why wouldn't they work on celestials? Coz some Attunements specifially state "Mortals" or "Humans" and some just say "Target" or "Person". The Choir Attunements of Gabriel were a little ambiguous in my mind. Also I thought that the Dissonance kept on hitting the poor Fireman. An example is the Friend of the Divine Spark Distinction. That only works on "Humans". This may be an error but I take it literally. Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 20:52:58 -0400 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: Re: IN> Moelane And then there's the other Superiors' opinions of him... Janus: Is sorry that Moelane is no longer directly in his service, but really is quite proud of the lad. Eli: Thinks it's cool, even if he did miss the chance for Moelane as his own servitor. Yves: Simply smiles when asked just -how- this Archangel got into the Collection in the first place. Iolanthe: "Niceman. Tells funny stories. Wanna mounch." *grab* Ronald: "He understands the cow mentality. Moo." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 21:11:38 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Moelane Christopher: "Finally! Someone who understands that I am NOT an anthropomorphized Care Bear!" Novalis: "Very nice man. Keen insight, wonderful ideas-" "WHEEE!!" *CRASH!* "ooops!" *Zoom!* "Now about this daughter of mine..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:23:51 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Consider Marc I hate them all. Scratch that, I'm not a Seraph. I hate their single minded words, their age, and most of all I hate Lucifer for making them all the paranoid know it alls that they've become. I'm many millions of years of age but I'm not like them yet though look at some of the angels and demons today and you'll see they aspire to become just as pig headed but thankfully most are like me and wonder JUST WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? I'm thier slave you see. It was pennance for being the scion of Lucifer and charged with teaching Mankind things that the Lightbringer thought were righteous and indeed QUITE ARE but everyone thought on some level that I must be responsible for some of the problems that the world is suffering today. Lucifer might well believed that and worst of all like Michael or pig headed David he might have made my entire existence part of some million year old plan to create a credit card which would destroy the universe or something...if I wasn't an Archangel I'd wonder if he was right but I am and I was the first to be invested with... ALL OF THEIR PERSPECTIVES. You have no idea what it is like to become an Archangel elevated not by God but by sheer force of a thousand forces being sacraficed by the "elders" and suddenly have them grafted onto you. The resulting rush of essence and eradication of your former being....no...the EXPANSION OF IT with the equivalent to millions of years of being a servitor of another of the Angels is like nothing else in the Symphony and for a brief moment you want to destroy yourself lest you go mad. It's like trauma in reverse I repeat Trade is the slave of the Seraphim council and the glue in which all policy in Heaven is performed. I was their christening achievement that resulted from the fact that without God through the Metatron to command them they were helpless and doomed. Thus Trade exists as the epicenter of all words. Novalis wants a nuclear power plant shut down and Jordi naturally goes along with it but Jean wants power in the region doubled so I have a long talk with Soldekai's more technical servitors to get a solar energy station in the area before sending in one of my point men to make the transistion to Solar power more easy and cost effective and I provide them with heavengly word backup as a "favor" so I can call it in later for when I need someone cruel smashed. That's really what trade exists for, to keep everyone from each others throats long enough for Heaven to function. Give and Take and make sure every chainsaw is juggled properly so Heaven doesn't explode. Laurence wants money today, that's always what people want from Trade officially, they never appreciate my diplomacy. The money is roughly 30 billion dollars to his latest pet charity. Okay that requires dispatching some Mercurians to get some donations but were 15 billion short so I have to do something drastic and decide to contact the servitors of War for "contingency" plan which roughly is the overthrowing of an existing government which is terrible and the crackdown of all business within the region to be diverted to a differen....it would take a few months to explain it. But it's what I do. To this day and forever more I am the center of the Seraphim Council and pray I am able to hold my position long enough for mankind to advance to a point it can choose for itself the routes we dictate. Amen - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2196 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.