From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 3 19:53:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17906 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:53:13 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA01941 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 3 May 2001 20:01:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:01:44 -0500 Message-Id: <200105040101.UAA01941@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2201 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2201 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Re: IN> Question about IST characters... Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Re: IN> Consider Lightning IN> Consider Freedom... IN> Consider Secrets Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Re: IN> Question about IST characters... Re: IN> Consider Freedom... Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning IN> Consider Hunger Re: IN> Consider Hunger IN> GIN Query (Re: In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic)) Re: IN> Question about IST characters... IN> Muted Cacophonies IN> Honor-Bound, Geas-Bound ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 20:50:51 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) >From: "William J. Keith" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) >Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:49:54 -0400 > > >3. The plot seed must be runnable using only the IN main book (this is to >be > >a canonical competition, to keep you all honest ;) ) > >Query on a point of order: Is the G:IN main book acceptable Sure. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:51:20 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Our spies report that at 04:28 PM 5/3/2001 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 3:35 PM -0700 5/3/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: > > >If Angels "have a place within God's Symphony" then why do they create > >disturbance whereas humans do not? > >Because their place is not on the corporeal plane -- they don't create >disturbance when they're within their home realm, after all. Demons do cause disturbance in Heaven, IIRC. But not in Hell. Is it part of God's plan for demons to be in Hell? Or is Hell just distorted, possibly tuned into Lucifer's private Symphony? These are mostly philosophical questions... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:39:28 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) > > > >Uhhh... jo, what would the three plot ingrediants be?? > > > > Beth's going to post them separately, either tonight or some time tomorrow. > Hence "ingredients, which will be provided." ;) arrrgh!!! damn. I'm going away for the weekend NO FAIR!!!! Maybe if you post them this evening I can still participate... - -Perry, kFc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:36:40 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Question about IST characters... > >Well, what about the other groups? And what happens when you're IST someone? > > It happens, though it's more rare -- in the Liber Servitorum, there's a > Kyriotate of Lightning IST the Sword, and the description includes the > reason for that. hee hee hee > >I.e., I have a Malakite of Destiny, and for storyline purposes I want him IST > >Trade. Now, Creationers don't take their temporary Superiors' Dissonance > >conditions, but those serving Lilith *do*. > > Those serving Lilith _MAY_, if they want her Rites. It is not mandatory. > The mandatory thing is that it's Rites + Dissonance Conditions -- you > can't get Freedom's Rites without the DCs as well. > > > Would my Malakite gain Dissonance if he fits Marc's conditions, as well as for > >Yves' and the Malakim conditions? > > No, he is only bound by the dissonance conditions of he who holds his > Heart -- that would be Yves -- and his own oaths. Marc will, however, > get very grumpy at him if he doesn't abide by Trade's restrictions, at > least somewhat. So, could a celestial INS another word aside from his original word (a) Receive /a/ Rite from another Superior /without/ necessarily gaining the DC (such as Nicole in A Bright Dream? pgIN194) (b) Take on MULTIPLE sets of DCs - -Perry, k-fc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out. " - --Chinese Proverb and thus gain MUTLIPLE sets of Rites? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:38:05 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:28 PM Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning > At 3:35 PM -0700 5/3/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: > > >If Angels "have a place within God's Symphony" then why do they create > >disturbance whereas humans do not? > > Because their place is not on the corporeal plane -- they don't create > disturbance when they're within their home realm, after all. yes, but I answered that question myself within the email, my question was regarding Ethereals in the Marches and what not, further down in the email. - -Perry, kf-c perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:13:49 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) >revelation. And in so doing, became the Angel of Beer. > Now, of course there must also be a Demon of Beer. >-Daiv, Tech Writer in service to Coffee, in search of a >superior. Abvriel, Angel of Beer. One of my favorite Moe characters. Go poke in the Archives around August 20, 2000. "He Must've Been An Admiral, A Sultan or A King..." is the title. (How do I know all these details? Because he's in my file, naturally! ;^) ) William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 21:21:37 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Lightning Lovely. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:26:44 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: IN> Consider Freedom... What is not supposed to be my concern? First and foremost, the Good Cause, then God's cause, the cause of mankind, of truth, of freedom, of humanity, of justice; further, the cause of my people, my prince, my fatherland; finally, even the cause of Mind, and a thousand other causes. Only my cause is never to be my concern. "Shame on the egoist who thinks only of himself!" Let us look and see, then, how they manage their concerns -- they for whose cause we are to labor, devote ourselves, and grow enthusiastic. You have much profound information to give about God, and have for thousands of years "searched the depths of the Godhead," and looked into its heart, so that you can doubtless tell us how God himself attends to "God's cause," which we are called to serve. And you do not conceal the Lord's doings, either. Now, what is his cause? Has he, as is demanded of us, made an alien cause, the cause of truth or love, his own? You are shocked by this misunderstanding, and you instruct us that God's cause is indeed the cause of truth and love, but that this cause cannot be called alien to him, because God is himself truth and love; you are shocked by the assumption that God could be like us poor worms in furthering an alien cause as his own. "Should God take up the cause of truth if he were not himself truth?" He cares only for his cause, but, because he is all in all, therefore all is his cause! But we, we are not all in all, and our cause is altogether little and contemptible; therefore we must "serve a higher cause." -- Now it is clear, God cares only for what is his, busies himself only with himself, thinks only of himself, and has only himself before his eyes; woe to all that is not well-pleasing to him. He serves no higher person, and satisfies only himself. His cause is -- a purely egoistic cause. How is it with mankind, whose cause we are to make our own? Is its cause that of another, and does mankind serve a higher cause? No, mankind looks only at itself, mankind will promote the interests of mankind only, mankind is its own cause. That it may develop, it causes nations and individuals to wear themselves out in its service, and, when they have accomplished what mankind needs, it throws them on the dung-heap of history in gratitude. Is not mankind's cause -- a purely egoistic cause? I have no need to take up each thing that wants to throw its cause on us and show that it is occupied only with itself, not with us, only with its good, not with ours. Look at the rest for yourselves. Do truth, freedom, humanity, justice, desire anything else than that you grow enthusiastic and serve them? They all have an admirable time of it when they receive zealous homage. Just observe the nation that is defended by devoted patriots. The patriots fall in bloody battle or in the fight with hunger and want; what does the nation care for that? By the manure of their corpses the nation comes to "its bloom"! The individuals have died "for the great cause of the nation," and the nation sends some words of thanks after them and -- has the profit of it. I call that a paying kind of egoism. But only look at that Sultan who cares so lovingly for his people. Is he not pure unselfishness itself, and does he not hourly sacrifice himself for his people? Oh, yes, for "his people." Just try it; show yourself not as his, but as your own; for breaking away from his egoism you will take a trip to jail. The Sultan has set his cause on nothing but himself; he is to himself all in all, he is to himself the only one, and tolerates nobody who would dare not to be one of "his people." And will you not learn by these brilliant examples that the egoist gets on best? I for my part take a lesson from them, and propose, instead of further unselfishly serving those great egoists, rather to be the egoist myself. God and mankind have concerned themselves for nothing, for nothing but themselves. Let me then likewise concern myself for myself, who am equally with God the nothing of all others, who am my all, who am the only one. If God, if mankind, as you affirm, have substance enough in themselves to be all in all to themselves, then I feel that I shall still less lack that, and that I shall have no complaint to make of my "emptiness." I am not nothing in the sense of emptiness, but I am the creative nothing, the nothing out of which I myself as creator create everything. Away, then, with every concern that is not altogether my concern! You think at least the "good cause" must be my concern? What's good, what's bad? Why, I myself am my concern, and I am neither good nor bad. Neither has meaning for me. The divine is God's concern; the human, man's. My concern is neither the divine nor the human, not the true, good, just, free, etc., but solely what is mine, and it is not a general one, but is -- unique, as I am unique. Nothing is more to me than myself! -- Max Stirner, _The Ego and Its Own_, Berlin 1844. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:23:36 -0600 (MDT) From: GROTH TIMOTHY PAUL Subject: IN> Consider Secrets ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:28:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:11:02 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) Think of it as a late May Day celebration! >The object of the game is to write a short plot seed >for IN, which makes use of the three 'plot >ingredients' that Beth has agreed to think up. The >idea is that you don't get much time to do this -- >deadline is next Monday. Sounds like fun. I'm in. BTW, how many entries per person? Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:35:19 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Question about IST characters... >> >Well, what about the other groups? And what happens when you're IST >someone? >> >> It happens, though it's more rare -- in the Liber Servitorum, there's a >> Kyriotate of Lightning IST the Sword, and the description includes the >> reason for that. > >hee hee hee > >> >I.e., I have a Malakite of Destiny, and for storyline purposes I want him >IST >> >Trade. Now, Creationers don't take their temporary Superiors' Dissonance >> >conditions, but those serving Lilith *do*. >> >> Those serving Lilith _MAY_, if they want her Rites. It is not mandatory. >> The mandatory thing is that it's Rites + Dissonance Conditions -- you >> can't get Freedom's Rites without the DCs as well. >> >> > Would my Malakite gain Dissonance if he fits Marc's conditions, as well >as for >> >Yves' and the Malakim conditions? >> >> No, he is only bound by the dissonance conditions of he who holds his >> Heart -- that would be Yves -- and his own oaths. Marc will, however, >> get very grumpy at him if he doesn't abide by Trade's restrictions, at >> least somewhat. > >So, could a celestial INS another word aside from his original word >(a) Receive /a/ Rite from another Superior /without/ necessarily gaining the >DC (such as Nicole in A Bright Dream? pgIN194) Yes; in fact, that's the usual case. You get a Rite for doing something pleasing to the other Superior, without strings attached. >(b) Take on MULTIPLE sets of DCs The only canon example that I know of is Yves' Master of Divine Knowledge Distinction and Kronos' Balseraph Attunement, both of which add the dissonance condition for the Choir resonance thus gained. Dissonance Conditions for more than one Word, though? Only if a celestial bound to another Word takes on Lilith's Rites and Dissonance Conditions, that I can recall, in canon. Outside of canon, though, it's kind of a funky concept. An Archangel or Demon Prince whose nature had something to do with being all-embracing, perhaps, or mutable, or seeing the other guy's point of view. Empathy, maybe. Heck, maybe even Valefor -- steal a bit of the other guy's nature. The way I see it working would be something like this. The Superior gives you the Distinction or the Attunement, which automatically gives you your Choir's or Band's Attunement for that Word, and even makes you eligible for *other* non-restricted Attunements of that Word. It alters your nature, though, so that you gain the Word's Dissonance Condition. You know, the more I think about this the more Valeforian it seems to be. The other Prince involved would be pissed, of course, so he'd only hand it out to highly-ranked demons who have really earned it -- shown a real knack for infiltrating that Word, or stolen something major from them in a way that boosted Theft, for example. The final test? Steal a Heart for a demon of that Word. Valefor will use part of it to give you the Distinction. Congratulations, you're now an Impudite not only of Theft, but of Lust. You Robin Hood you. Go forth and ravish. >-Perry, k-fc William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:31:09 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Freedom... Wow. Deep. Accurate. I'd say it covers all the bases, really. I always wondered how she must feel. I mean, she's unique in all creation: no longer truly human (whatever that may mean) in the sense that her perspective has grown beyond human understanding, but not truly celestial either, chained down by a central nature. Must be a weird viewpoint. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:07:26 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning > They cause disturbance on earth becaus they have a place in God's Symphony, > and it's -not- on Earth. God more or less said 'Earth is for the Humans > (oh, and all those other little buggers, too, of course)', yes yes yes Which, incidentaly, led me to my > current work: determining how much it would alter God's plan (and thus how > much disturbance it would cause) to turn a human being into a pachinko > machine. > > Well, the above (except the bit about the pinball machine) are all just my > opinions, or course. I believe that the actual trasformation would include the Essence required to fuel the "Human into Pinball Machine " song/attunement, plus any damage done the human being in the process, and on top of all of that, I believe that you *would* have to add in the additional disturbance for killing a human being, because, once in the form of a gumball machine, the target of the song/attunement would cease to be human. OTOH, one could say that the same should apply to Undead . . . if one believes that they're no longer human. Personally, I'm of the opinion that gumball machines are no longer human . . . - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:14:28 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning > Demons do cause disturbance in Heaven, IIRC. > But not in Hell. > > Is it part of God's plan for demons to be in Hell? > Or is Hell just distorted, possibly tuned into Lucifer's private Symphony? > > These are mostly philosophical questions... > > Sean Pondering the nature of a fictional universe . . . but yes, this does bring up an important question: assuming that God's Symphony = God's plan (which opens up an entirely different can of worms, SFAIC) if Demons do not disturb the Symphony while in hell and if Hell itself does not disturb the Symphony, then would Hell be part of God's Symphony, and therefore part of God's plan? - -Perry, kfC perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out. " - --Chinese Proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:19:35 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) > > > > >From: "William J. Keith" > >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) > >Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:49:54 -0400 > > > > >3. The plot seed must be runnable using only the IN main book (this is to > >be > > >a canonical competition, to keep you all honest ;) ) > > > >Query on a point of order: Is the G:IN main book acceptable > > > Sure. > > > > jo I assume, Jo, that you are aware that GIN includes descriptions of Children of the Grigori and the Grigorit themselves, right? It also includes descriptions of Limbo as well as the Songs of Artifacts and Transferral, so . . . GIN contains information not found in the IN Core book. Not that it's all that much. - -Perry, Kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 21:37:18 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) > >BTW, how many entries per person? > > Hm. Keep it to just one, I think. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:38:58 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning > > I believe that the actual trasformation would include the Essence required > to fuel the "Human into Pinball Machine " song/attunement, plus any damage > done the human being in the process, and on top of all of that, I believe > that you *would* have to add in the additional disturbance for killing a > human being, because, once in the form of a gumball machine, the target of > the song/attunement would cease to be human. > > OTOH, one could say that the same should apply to Undead . . . if one > believes that they're no longer human. > Personally, I'm of the opinion that gumball machines are no longer human . . However, you have to add in the fundamental fact that this would be even more of a disturbance than death, because at lease when a human dies, they eventually cycle back into the Symphony, ie their body decays and their component Forces go to heaven/go to hell/get reincarnated/disband. With this, however, those forces are now stuck, and the pachinko machine isn't about to decay any time soon (outside of human/celestial intervention, of course), so I think it'd be even more so than just killing them. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:13:52 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Consider Hunger I'm Hungry... ...Ok, yeah, I know. I'm ALWAYS Hungry, but still. That's what I am, really. Hunger. Hunger given form and flesh. I'm always Hungry, never sated. I eat ton after ton of food, but I'm never full. I gorge myself of rare meats, exotic spices, sugary sweets and plump fats, but I've yet to feel satisfied with a meal. Maybe that's what happens when you devour Oblivion; it stays with you, becoming a bottomless pit inside your gut, constantly gnawing at your insides, howling to be filled, if not by what you feed it, then by your own flesh, which it tears and pulls at like a clawing beast... You gonna finish that? Oh, thanks. *Munch-munch-munch* Urp! ...Sorry, now where was I? Oh yes, the Hunger... It's always with me, day in, day out, 24/7. It's what drives me on, really. Forget Honor, and Glory, and all that jazz. Let the other Princes go for stuff like getting attention or winning glory in battle or satisfying old grudges... Me, I've got a Mouth to Feed. Mine. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:21:27 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Hunger Nice work! This reminds me: Has anybody written up Sinistar as an Ethereal yet? Because if not, I feel a Need to. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:48:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> GIN Query (Re: In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic)) At 4:49 PM -0400 5/3/01, William J. Keith wrote: >>3. The plot seed must be runnable using only the IN main book (this is to be >>a canonical competition, to keep you all honest ;) ) > >Query on a point of order: Is the G:IN main book acceptable? I don't know >how much material was crammed in it that might not be in the standard IN >main book, or how significant it would be. Differences include: (lack of) Song of Affinity, Song of Artifacts, Song of Transferral; IN Songs are not maintainable; Nemisis attunement for Cherubim not described (except in APG); Limbo details; the Grigori; stats for CotG; Affiliation rules for Songs; Virtuosos; Demons and their Driving... Um... I think that's about it? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:48:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about IST characters... At 4:43 PM -0400 5/3/01, S.D. wrote: >>It happens, though it's more rare -- in the Liber Servitorum, there's a >>Kyriotate of Lightning IST the Sword, and the description includes the >>reason for that. > >I figured you'd need a good reason. (Of course, I only have the core rulebook so far. No details in there. ^_^ Must expand collection...) You Want More In Nomine Books >>Those serving Lilith _MAY_, if they want her Rites. It is not mandatory. >>The mandatory thing is that it's Rites + Dissonance Conditions -- you >>can't get Freedom's Rites without the DCs as well. > >Hmm. Misinterpeted that line. [beat] And does that apply to anyone IST - or anyone who accepts a Rite from someone else? (I'm thinking of Nicole, the Merc of Fire in 'Bright/Dark Dream', who had Novalis' dancing rite...) No -- other Superiors may hand out Rites without imposing their Dissonance Conditions on the recipients. There's discussion in the Game Master's Guide about how Rites (and Rite use) affect the power of a Word-bound (including Superiors), and why it's not done like popcorn. >Does it work the same way for demons? (I assume so, but I'm paranoid. ^_^) With the aforementioned exception of Lilith, yup. Though they're usually less likely to be loaned out -- save as spies. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:51:12 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Muted Cacophonies Kronos' Balseraph Attunement explicitly says that no known attempt to reproduce the Bright Lilim or Grigori resonances has succeeded. Guess what Yves' Master of Divine Knowledge Distinction definitely *doesn't* say. Hmmmmm.... :^) Following this line of thought, I present in these posts two angels of Destiny. I thought about providing stats, but decided that would be a needless pinning-down of the stories -- besides being more work than I cared to provide, and uncertain conversions anyway. ;^) If you want statistics, I hope I've provided a good starting point. This post is the angel with the Grigori resonance; the next is Bright Lilim. - ----------------- I slid through the dark forest as stealthily as this bipedal body could manage, spear at the ready. What I wouldn't have given for my native form's serpentine grace -- but I had to deal with what was here and now, not in fantasy. I stretched out with every sense to probe for my quarry. The Symphony shivered, and my instincts rose up to defend against the unnatural stretching of Forces about me. My will prevailed, and I maintained my senses through the silent storm. Silent storm? I reached out with my newly detailed sense of disturbance, applied my Seraphic resonance to the information thus afforded. It pierced the lie, and I saw the Song of Thunder that the Skulker had attempted to hit me with, using its effects even as he masked its trademark disturbance. His own disturbance would be muted without the use of his Resonance for the duration. Clever. Too clever by half to be allowed to serve Hell. I reached again. It had come from... ...there. I took off running. Now that I knew where to look I could see his form, running away at top speed, all pretense of subtlety abandoned as I closed in. I sang a Song of my own, and the very brush and deadwood around him rose and thrust, tripping him up. I had no doubt Novalis would have been -- well, mildly annoyed, at least. But then, she wouldn't have approved of my duty today anyway. Besides, it was only a Song of Motion. I came upon the prone demon, lying huddled on the ground where he had crashed. He looked up at me, seeing only death. He almost saw truly. But he had one last chance. An application of Divine Destiny told me what I needed to know -- his Fate was overwhelming what remained of his Destiny, as he succumbed to the call of the darkness. The point of the spear stuck under his sternum. From here on out, it was a play already written. "Leave this body," I said. "It does me little good to kill your Vessel." "It does me plenty of good to stay in it," he spat. "Kill me. I'll go to Limbo and come back out stronger than ever." It was bravado, though, for I could sense that particular lie. Had I not, I would have done as he asked. His words themselves were truth, of course. He feared my ultimate purpose, and thus he wanted me to make it quick. I began to twist the spearpoint inward. This sickened me. I had been unable to convince Archangel Jordi that I needed his Song of Banishing badly enough for him to allow his Songmasters to teach me, and Blandine was too busy dealing with her own Watchers to have the Marches turned into a Skulker trap for hunters using Possession. That left me with this. He held out for a surprisingly long time, but finally the facade fell. Pain overcame fear, and he went celestial to flee. Instantly I was celestial myself and after him. The relic spear followed me, and now he was seriously in trouble. I was faster than he was, I was armed, and though we had both been conserving Essence through a long hunt I had the benefit of a reliquary. Eventually, the fight ended as it had to. The Skulker dissolved from the celestial realm into the corporeal, his wounded body animating in his place. I recorporealized and gave him the only mercy I could. As usual after completing a mission, I checked my internal state. This spate of activity was unnerving to me, who had been used for so long to gentle guidance and contemplation of the subtleties of the Symphony. Whatever my will in the matter, though, I was uniquely suited to a job that had to be done these days, and done frequently -- so many of them, all Outcast, what had gone wrong with the new Choir I had so loved for their perceptiveness and their youthful exuberance? My love for them had bound me to them, making me the first Seraph in Destiny's ranks to hear the subtle ripples in the Symphony that only the Grigori could hear, and then the Distinction had equipped me to be a hunter of the Fallen ones, who were as things currently stood without hope of salvation. But every time I ran down another Skulker who had Fallen after his Outcasting, without the will to Redeem or an Archangel who would do it, I expected the Symphony to scream in pain as I wielded the instrument that sealed a Fate, making me more dissonant with every mission. My inquiry was greeted with silence. No jangling tones of dissonance or Discord assaulted my soul. No disturbance echoed through the forest anymore. No choices for a moment, Destiny or Fate, truth or lie, to choose and judge. Even the animals had fled from the scene of the violence, taking their noises with them. I sank to my knees beside the body. So quiet... William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:54:46 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Honor-Bound, Geas-Bound I had been having a sense of something close upon me for a while now. Something was about to change -- not necessarily impending doom, but a difference was coming. I had been waiting for it patiently, but the urgency had been growing. When I had finally made up my mind to request of him some leave to seek it out, he arrived unsummoned and granted me the time I would need. I thanked him and returned to Heaven. Now I paced the streets of the Eternal City. I do not know how humans feel it, but besides knowing that it is the Paradise of the Blessed, I have always felt it to be "home." Normally, having the chance, I would have happily wandered the passages of the Library until a book caught my eye, and then ensconced myself in a convenient nook and read with interest. But the need on me was too great, and I was driven to motion among the souls going to and fro on their business outside. I had girded my sword out of habit, and now my hand rested on its pommel. It was sheathed, of course -- peace would reign here while I still stood -- in a gilt scabbard depending from links of golden chain. No gaud, that; the belt was the first and foremost of my Oaths. "Never suffer an evil to live, when it is my choice." My purpose in existence. But 'twas the beautifully worked scabbard that hung from the belt, and the simple sharp sword that rested in the scabbard, and no question which of the two I preferred. I had been in the Order of Redeemers for almost as long as I had been a Malakite. That was my weapon of choice against evil. Unlike the sword, after centuries of practice I still couldn't keep this weapon from occasionally turning in my hand and injuring its wielder, but there are simply some weapons that make bearing a shield impossible. "Never surrender in a fight, nor allow myself to be captured by the armies of Hell." My promise that I would serve God eternally, never giving up. A simple earring that hung from my left ear, it was always the lightest of burdens. "Never strike until I'm sure they've stopped listening." This one appeared as a bracer on my right forearm. It made it hard to make a fist sometimes -- or draw a sword. It wasn't quite David's "Don't hit first," or Novalis' "Only if absolutely necessary," but it was restrictive sometimes. Oh, I'd believed in the Oath from long before I'd taken it. As an overenthusiastic reliever I'd taken it upon myself to decide that the Balseraph was stringing us along and could use some relief from that heavy Vessel, thus bringing to ruination a plan that required his presence (certainly not his trustworthiness). But it had taken me a while to really respect the warning pressure that came with the experience. Now I valued it. Sometimes the first noticeable crack in the demon's facade came when he saw a Malakite refusing to draw. "Always know the plan." That included having a plan when I was on my own -- it didn't necessarily mean *stick* to the plan, but if you're going to change course midstream, at least have some idea where you're heading, and what you'll do when you get there. I rubbed the torque that was almost a collar on my neck. It really had pulled me up short a few times, usually when I had needed it the most. It was an outgrowth of that same experience, plus some other times that youthful exuberance had bested my judgment. I'd taken it, among other reasons, because I was scared as anything that Yves wouldn't accept me unless I proved I could restrain myself the way an angel of Destiny should. That restraint had served me so well that it was only now, looking back over my life like one would read a book, that I saw the pattern with the clarity of an outside observer. I was sure I couldn't count the number of times it had affected something I'd never expected, giving me an opportunity to do some good that I would have otherwise missed. Encircling my left wrist was a light chain, resembling a woman's charm bracelet, tiny golden links connecting two slips of metal. One bore the name she'd taken, the other the Oath. "Always remember." Aiella was the first time I'd loved, I think. I'd heard some Disturbance, come to its site and seen a man leering over a prone woman. I'd shouted for him to leave her alone, and he'd told me off. When my fist struck flesh and I heard the Disturbance, I realized my folly and let him flee. Aiella -- she wasn't called that then, but it would be the name I would always remember -- didn't make the same mistake I did, but looked at me for a moment and gave her agreement to a deal I hadn't known I was making. Still, running off someone's attacker makes a good first impression, and Aiella was young enough to be excited by a dangerous relationship. Eventually, I admitted love; she finally dared to tell me her doubts and fears, and I recalled for her the times my Oaths and Destiny's necessary restraint chafed. That night, I asked if she would be willing to join me in the Light. She'd only cried, and didn't answer me until dawn. Then we went to Yves, and I was privileged to hold her hand as she was remade. It hadn't lasted, of course. A tinge of haste had colored our relationship after that, as if she knew what was coming. She was no fool - -- she'd stayed in Heaven rather than take corporeal jobs, researching in the Library. But it hadn't helped. After a few decades, restlessness took over. She wanted to be *helping* people, and though I'd never read her Destiny -- I'm no Elohite, to face such a personal possible future with equanimity -- we knew that she belonged on Earth. All too soon, they found her. She couldn't rid herself of the Geasa she held on other demons, which they could use to track her down. The Game... the Game only held me at bay. Her former sisters did the actual work... except for finishing off her Remnant. That, they left to me. But for some reason, whenever I thought about her, I remembered the first years. It was easy to see the influence that Aiella had had on my future work. I focused on the Daughters of Lilith -- some say the most difficult, if a Squadmember had to choose a specialty, especially with the Liline talent for drawing one's feelings further into the relationship. But after Aiella, they were all competing against a ghost. Given the buffer distance, I was able to maintain a pull from the right direction. The effects were always fascinating. Other than the visual change, you wouldn't think they were that different from their demonic sisters. You had to really get to know them to know what it meant to them to be an angel; what the angelic version of their touch upon the Symphony signified, how it worked. Their view of Needs, of promise and fulfillment, became something nobler, more powerful. I'd striven to understand this change; in some way that I couldn't really share, it appealed to a Lilim's better nature. Once you could find that nature, of course. It was close to a Malakite's honor, but something about it was... softer. Subtler, gentler. Perhaps it had something to do with the thread of humanity that ran through their natures. I mused as I walked on through the City. Something about this line of thought struck me as accurate. A pity it only led to far deeper philosophical complications, since humanity was far more complex than any Choir or Band would ever be. And yet, if I could just strike the right note... o/~ Demon, angel, human, Bright / born in shadow, born in Light / darkest Daughters, darkest Choir / Honor Bound -- and something Higher. o/~ I stopped in the middle of the way. That was it, I knew it was. For a split second I saw past the layers of stereotype and self-identity into the core nature of us all, Malakite, Lilim, and the touch of humanity that wove through them. The sheer power; did Lilith even realize the depth of what she had wrought, beyond anything a Demon Prince ever did, beyond any save humans and God? Then the vision passed -- or, rather, it moved past sight into my deeper awareness. I knew what I had to do. I unsheathed my sword, an unfamiliar sound in this lane bringing people to turn and stare. I held it above me, one hand on the hilt, one around the blade, offering it to our God above, and swore. "I shall strive to fulfill the needs of others to the increase of all." "I shall never attempt to force honor upon another." With the new Oaths, two fine chains wrapped themselves around the crests of my wings. They brought with them the Malakite's understanding of the Bright Daughters that I had sought, bridging the gap between us with the knowledge of how to see what they saw, how to uphold the promises that were made and bound. Those two Oaths had embedded in me, respectively, the Resonance and Dissonance Condition of the Choir called the Bright Lilim. I was now, as the title went, a Master of Divine Knowledge. I sheathed the sword and returned to the Library. I had completed the task for which I had come to Heaven, and there was work to be done. William ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2201 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.