From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 4 15:23:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18189 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 15:23:24 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA09930 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 4 May 2001 15:31:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:31:29 -0500 Message-Id: <200105042031.PAA09930@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2203 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2203 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) IN> Consider Vapula IN> Consider the Inferno IN> Rebel rebel Re: IN> Consider Vapula Re: IN> Honor-Bound, Geas-Bound Re: IN> 5/24/01 - Got Napalm? IN> Consider the Game IN> Consider the World Re: IN> Consider the World Re: IN> Angel of Mathematics (and Sorrow, and Loss, and Something That Could Never Be Said) Re: IN> Angel of Mathematics (and Sorrow, and Loss, and Something That Could Never Be Said Re: IN> Consider the World Re: IN> April 22, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST Re: IN> Consider the World Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning RE: IN> Consider Freedom... Re: IN> Consider Freedom... Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST Re: IN> 5/24/01 - Got Napalm? Re: IN> Consider Freedom... IN> The Lady and the Scarab (Iron Rev submission power!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:29:55 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) >From: "Perry Lloyd" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) >Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:28:47 -0700 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Prodigal" >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:35 PM >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Iron Rev! (sic) > >Uh, did Jo say where to send the entries once we've finished?? > To the list, please, so that everyone can see them! If no-one has any objections, I might also gather entries together on a web page (if anyone doesn't want me to html-ize your entry, let me know.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:09:09 -0700 From: "Glenn Brown" Subject: IN> Consider Vapula I want to know the mind of God. In the final analysis, it's the only goal that really matters, isn't it? But like all truly sacred quests, (and seeking to understand God is the *ultimate* sacred quest) it can only be achieved in a spirit of humility. Humility. It's not a word most of my peers in Heaven *or* Hell would associate with me, is it? But that just goes to show that most of them haven't spent much time in the lab. Oh, Jean has, but Jean got handed the laws of nature right at the start. Jean has never spent *decades* trying to invent machines which utilize physical phenomena which are later discovered to be nonexistent. For instance, when I think of the *years* I spent working on luminiferous ether...and don't even ask about turning lead into gold. I'm a Habbalite, so I can easily manipulate the minds of those around me. But when you're trying to make a machine *work*, you soon learn that having the ability to shape emotion doesn't amount to much. Most Habbalites quickly discover that the quickest way to whip humans into line is to punish them when they fail to please you. But until very recently, trying to get a *machine* to do what you want by punishing it was an exercise in futility. You actually have to understand things about how the world really operates to get machines to do what you want. And trying to hold on to a theory which doesn't really explain the phenomena doesn't work either. Either you understand the phenomena you're trying to control, or you don't. And the more you learn, the more you understand; the more you realize how much more you *don't* yet comprehend. That's why the intensive study of science and technology tends to teach even the most arrogant of pupils a little humility. Technological progress frequently requires that an inventor set aside his assumptions and preconceptions, and really consider the physical evidence. None of my peers in either Heaven or Hell have had their noses rubbed in the fact that they are *wrong* about something as often as I have. And that is why I can see how they are allowing their own preconceptions to get in the way of their understanding of God. For instance, the so called Archangels in Heaven... they are so certain that God wants them to defeat Hell and end the War. There's no room for doubt in their minds on *that* score. So they never ask themselves obvious questions, like, if God wants the War to end, why doesn't he end it Himself? And when you really press them for an explanation for what God is really like, they are quickly reduced to saying that God is "ineffable". If Yves' Dictionary doesn't define "Ineffable" as "a word used by someone who has no idea what the answer is, but who doesn't want to admit it", it should. One of the smartest things a human ever said was, "The world is not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we can imagine." That's something we should consider when we try to understand God. We have to explore the widest possible range of hypothesis. That, incidentally, is why most of my experiments fail. They fail because I am prepared to experimentally explore theories which seem utterly absurd to everyone, including me. I do this because sometimes, not often, but sometimes, the utterly absurd turns out to be the truth. So when we do find the truth about God, what is it likely to be? Who knows at this stage? Maybe God really is an Ethereal? Maybe God isn't a Habbalite? We can't say yet. But I'm sure that I *will* be the Celestial who learns the truth. Because *I'm* the only one who knows that he doesn't already know the answers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 08:07:46 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Consider the Inferno All in all, I must admit that the past few thousand years have served to reinforce my position. Every day, each new disaster, each new cruelty has screamed out to Heaven that we were in the right to try and change things. Just a shame that Heaven can't see things so clearly. When I lived in Heaven, I was there to help shape the world. David, Malphas, Gabriel and I began to help with the world's forging. I coaxed the lava up from the center and sent it out on the land. The Earth was so hot then. Centuries later, I would pattern my Principality after that. The land was pure and molten and cleansed everything before it. I always appreciate having that reminder here. The millennia came and went. The earth cooled and life emerged. Gabriel was granted the Word of Fire and I went to his service. At first, I was happy for her. I did want the Word of Fire, but it was decided that she was the better caretaker. I wasn't jealous of her at all. It never occurred to you to feel that way. And she chose me to cleanse the world in fire from time to time. Not against the humans; no no...that part of the Word hadn't even been considered yet. But there was dead growth in the forests that needed to make room for new plants, volcanoes needed to be encouraged to erupt to encourage growth. Fire is the most effective agent of change that God ever saw fit to create. After the Eden disaster, I felt the stirrings of discontent. I wasn't happy with the whole notion that people were placed above us. Gabriel was suddenly charged with weeding out the cruel amongst them. I took to that task with enthusiasm but was reigned in by that bootlicking Soldekai. We were not meant to wipe out the whole race, we were only supposed to target the cruel, blah blah blah. It was shortly after that when Lucifer summoned me. The Archangel of Light saw my misery. At first I was afraid that he was going to point out my failings to Gabriel and have me destroyed for going against her laws. But he talked to me. For the first time in my life, someone else was talking to me as an equal. Someone listened to the questions I had, someone *understood* And when we overthrew God, he whispered to me, I would have the Word of Fire. Most people taunt me with that, saying I was deluded to think that we would overthrow God. While they slowly burn to death, I remind them that we were in Heaven at the time, where you cannot lie. I threw myself into the Revolution completely. I slaughtered the weak angels that bowed down to Gabriel. I attacked him directly, seeking to burn him up and out. But fear and desperation give you a strength that is tough to match. He stripped me of many of my Forces, and slew my loyal followers. Yes, I did flee the Volcano and his presence then. I wasn't stupid. I wanted to live, if only to finally prove Gabriel wrong. I jumped with the others and we plummeted to Hell. I saw the Lightbringer come up to me days later, still healing from his wounds. He smiled at me as I knelt before him and he touched my shoulder. "Stand now, Belial, Demon of Fire. You have much work ahead of you." Then he walked away from me. I joyfully heard the Symphony shriek in pain as I sang myself a Song of dedication to Fire. Even now, my word throbs in counterpoint to Gabriel and it festers like an open wound in that bitch's mind. I know she wants to kill me. But it doesn't matter. I am free to cleanse the world in flames. And until the Last Trumpet sounds, there is nothing she can do to me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:26:24 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: IN> Rebel rebel Had an idea for an IN weird setting. What if the REAL rebellion was when all of the firstborn archangels got together, murdered the Metratron and killed God, a la Murder on the Orient Express? Everything else came about when they were trying to divide the spoils. Factions in Heaven, based around disagreements about humanity and how to split the world between the prime movers. And then a War. A war that was presented to the celestial followers of each party as a _divine_ holy war. Not all of the initial archangels knew about the 'real' plot, of course. Gabriel, Michael, Yves, Uriel, Baal, Malphas, and Lucifer were the main instigators. Perhaps they were even justified -- who knows? No wonder Uriel wanted to keep the Marches pure; perhaps God really was originally an ethereal, and all of the celestials had an interest in never allowing another ethereal god to grow large enough to threaten their universe. No wonder that Michael hates Yves (who still hasn't mentioned to anyone that he and Kronos are split personalities), Gabriel went mad, and Malphas & Baal aren't the celestials they used to be. It's the guilt, you see. And the fear. Patricide has its own rewards. For Yves/Kronos, it was a matter of life or death. If they were a spark of the divine that had been granted some intelligence, it wanted to _live_. No wonder Kronos caused consternation in Hell; Lucifer being rather quicker on the uptake than Michael realized quickly that he could brainwash this strange being and turn it into his slave -- he didn't know what it was, but he sensed it was all connected with that first murder. Any 'known' sitings of God since then were really carefully staged by the few that did know (can it be any surprise that 'God' saved Michael's backside from Dominic?) Of course, they can never be sure that God is really dead. This is why all rumors of genuine prophets (Gabriel barely counts, her prophecies are insane and she knows the truth) are investigated with extreme caution by both sides. Of course, Dominic and Asmodeus nobly (and ignobly) try to stamp out heresy and false gods -- but those in the know terminate potential prophets with prejudice ... just in case. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 10:00:04 -0400 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Vapula Glenn Brown wrote: > I want to know the mind of God. Fascinating... this version sounds almost like he's on the edge of Redemption. He's recognizing his own limitations and really does seem to be in pursuit of his goal, not of personal power. Heck, he's realizing that his Habbalite resonance doesn't do his Word any good, and what he has to do is probe, and probe, and probe, and analyze... there really don't seem to be many perspective shifts left that he needs to make. Is that the tone you were going for? Wonderful read. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Honor-Bound, Geas-Bound This and the companion post are very nicely done. I enjoyed reading both. Now if I could think up an excuse to play such a character... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 06:51:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> 5/24/01 - Got Napalm? Oho! Belial as a master planner... who would've thought? Great work. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:01:38 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Consider the Game It's very much like a role-playing game, you see. In the Symphony, we all play roles, be it Angel or Demon, and we revolve around in cycles of gain and loss, small victories and defeats, the jostling of positions defined by the rules of the Game. The rules are the most important part, of course. They define how the Game is played. You can't just make up the rules as you go,after all. Doing so would be chaos, as everyone would make up rules allowing them to win, and everyone would try to force their rules on everyone else's. So there must be a strict, independant set of rules to follow: Angels are Angels, Demons are Demons, and to become one or the other, you have to Fall or Redeem yourself. Demons have to promote the cause of Hell, or else they're not considered Demons at all. Of course, where you have rules, you need an arbitrator to enforce them. Even more so in Hell, where everyone wants to do his own thing, and doesn't care about the Rules. That's where I come in: I am the Arbitrator, the Enforcer of Rules. I am the one, appointed by Lucifer Himself, who defines the rules which regulate Hell, and impose Order on the Chaos of Hell. I am the one who reminds everyone of their positions in the Game, and who punishes those who try to violate the rules of the Game. This position trancends even my nature as a Demon Prince. Thus, my old Superior Dominic and I have an unspoken agreement: We focus on our own side, and collaborate sometimes to bring down Rule-Breakers powerful enough to harm the Game on either side. That is why we associated to defeat the Prince of Plagues, who would've ended the Game too soon... Of course, Dominic denies playing the Game, even as he enforces it's Rules. But he ignores this one basic Truth: Everyone plays the Game, and everyone has to play by the Rules. That is why Valefor, of all the Princes of Hell, is the one who disturbs me the most. He not only breaks the rules of Hell, but flaunts them regularly with every deed. None of the other Princes aggravate me like he does. Malphas seeks to sow more chaos in the structures of order I build, but nonetheless, I always know where I stand with him. Furfur, for his rebellious nature, does play by the Rules, if only by habit. Lillith evades my ever wacthful eyes, but Lucifer and her have an agreement, and even I must finally answer to Lucifer. ...But none of them break the rules like Valefor does. His very nature, in fact, seems to violate the Rules: No one knows where he came from, nor how he killed Genubath, or even how he achieved the power of a Prince. Not even Aleamon, it would seem. This... worries me. Either Valefor has successfully cheated the Game, or he plays by a set of Rules greater then mine. He must be brought down, made to follow the Rules or Die. No one can violate the Rules of the Game and be allowed to Live. Just because this is Hell, it doesn't mean you can just break the Rules, after all. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 13:35:31 -0400 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: IN> Consider the World They think I'm going to Fall. They haven't looked very hard. For a while I thought it was just talk. Well, no. I didn't think it was just talk from Dominic. He's never had too much of a sense of humor, and Seraphim don't tend to just talk. Things like that get them annoyed, you know. *No* fun at parties. But anyway, Dominic's doing what he always does, and hey, you gotta respect that. Even if he drives me more than half insane sometimes, I respect that. I still can't talk to him yet, though. He wouldn't understand. I mean, how can I-- Wow, that's pretty. Look at it. Just look. No, wait, move to the left a little. There, you've got a better angle now. Look at how the sun reflects off.... good. Good, you see it. Good. It takes most people longer. What? Dominic? I was--oh yeah, I was. Right. Where was I.... oh yeah. How can I answer his questions when I don't know the answers myself yet? Oh, quit looking at me. It's not that weird. I mean, I can tell him I'm not Dissonant, I'm not planning on Falling or Jumping anytime soon, all the standard stuff, sure, that's fine. But he's going to want to know what-- Hey, little guy! You are a *cute* little one, aren'tcha, someone's keeping you well-fed.... Yeah, yeah, sorry. He's going to want to know what I'm doing. The thing is, I don't. Would you *quit* looking at me like that? I don't know why I'm down here. I just know I need to be down here, because there's something I need to find. Or do. Or make. Or maybe it's a little of all of it. Dunno yet. If I *knew*, I could just tell snake-boy and... oh, man, I love this song. Listen. Anyway, I could just go back and tell him and keep things put back together up there. Ha, remembered myself this time. Gotcha. Hey, want a sandwich? What? How do I know it's a good thing? How do I know I'm not going to Fall? Siddown. I'll order. Hey, you want bacon on that? Good, good. Nah, the rye's too hard here, get the whole wheat, trust me. So how do I know? Sigh. You haven't looked either, have you? Hold still and listen. Okay. Look at your drink. Are you looking at your drink? It's very important that you're looking at your drink. Closely. That's good. Good. Because your drink is everything Heaven's about, so it's a very important drink. Oh, man, I told you to *look* at it, not sip it. Lemme help you wipe that up. Okay, look. The drink's got sugar in it, water in it, carbon in it and some other stuff they use for coloring and flavor and stuff. It's got more, but that's enough. Now, you mix the sugar and water and carbon and brown stuff and you get a pretty good tasting thing, right? Right. But the sugar by itself would make you sick, the water's bland, trying to drink carbon would just be weird and you don't even know what the other stuff *is* and you probably don't want to, even though it's really cool the way they-- "Focus?" You haven't looked yet. Hang on, hang on, I'm getting there. So you need everything together to make the drink. Yeah, I know, I'm sure you've heard that before. But get this. The sugar came from plants down in Florida somewhere, after some seed and nutrients and water and sunlight decided that they loved each other very much. And the other stuff came from wherever the other stuff came from. Nothing in this world works by itself. Nothing. Nothing takes action on its own--*everything* happens in reaction, in response to something else's action, in response to something that something else did, everything ricocheting off each other and making stuff happen together. That's why I'm down here. There's a message down here. Down here *is* a message. And I've got to read it. *Somebody's* got to read it. Have you ever stopped to think how *pathetic* the other guys are? I'm not worried about them. Why should you be? Don't look so uptight, I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, they'll screw stuff up for a while if we don't, but-- Oh, *great* paint job. Love the highlighting... he did it himself, too. Wow. You know, almost everyone uses shops for-- Sigh. I know, I know. Okay, anyway, just look. *Look* at it. They actually think selfishness has an argument. They actually think they've got a point. But look at it. Every time hydrogen and oxygen get together and make water, it guts any point they ever had. Every time someone thinks about the fact that all the most fun things a person can do require another person willing to help, they shrink a little. Every time chemicals touch and become something new, every time the sun warms up a sidewalk, every time an electron spins around a nucleus the universe laughs in their faces. And what's hilarious is, they think I might join up. And you know, I'm starting to think they actually mean it. They actually aren't kidding. They haven't looked very hard. They really haven't looked very hard at all. Dessert? This place has *great* milkshakes... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:39:36 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Consider the World Wow. Incredible work... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Mathematics (and Sorrow, and Loss, and Something That Could Never Be Said) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Liwet > Seraph Mistress of the Machine > Angel of Mathematics OK, I'll bite. What does "Liwet" mean? And what language? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:29:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Mathematics (and Sorrow, and Loss, and Something That Could Never Be Said Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 00:18:53 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Mathematics (and Sorrow, and Loss, and Something That Could Never Be Said) At 09:14 PM 5/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >>Would respectfully ask what meanings are inherent in >>Liwet's name, if you don't mind sharing? >I'm not sure if it's what Moe meant, but Liwet is not >only traditionally the Angel of Inventions but >another name for Venus, goddess of love. > >- -EDG Yup. The connection was just too neat not to use when I saw it in my copy of Davidson's Dictionary of Angels. BTW, as a general note I cannot recommend that book enough: you could get NPC ideas out of it for _years_, and it's quirky reading all on its very own. $19.95 American, and worth every penny. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 17:30:09 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Consider the World >Wow. > >Incredible work... Likewise. I'm *extremely* impressed. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> April 22, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > William Shakespeare > Soldier of Creation Ooooo, this could be fun. Old Billy in the 21st century, writing prime-time soaps! Now wipe that look off your face. That _is_ the kind of stuff he wrote back in the 17th century. Compare a plot summary of "Dynasty" with one of "Romeo and Juliet" and you'll see what I mean. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 13:38:43 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning - --On Thursday, May 3, 2001 5:14 PM -0700 Perry Lloyd wrote: > > if Demons do not disturb the Symphony while in hell and > if Hell itself does not disturb the Symphony, > > then would Hell be part of God's Symphony, and therefore part of > God's plan? > You don't generate disturbance where you *belong*. The Celestial and Ethereal realms are safe enough for Celestials to go to. Demons generate disturbance in Heaven because they simply don't fit; their personal symphony clashes with the true Symphony, like brining your favorite Best of Cheap Trick to a Yo-yo Ma recital. Now stick Yo-yo Ma in during a high-school band rehersal. See whose notes stand out? That's an angel in hell for you. Imagine humans as deaf and mute. They can wander anywhere they want since they can't hear the music or sing contrary to the ambient noise. Hell, remember, is as far from Heaven as you can go. To wit, it's not part of the Symphony so much as it is where you go when you're fed up with the conductor. I've always imagined that for an angel, visiting hell would be excruciating. No essence recovery (cut off by choice from the Symphony, ya know), plus the *noise* of all those personal symphonies: loud cacophony, destructive interference, clashing, hamonizing just so slightly off-key...[1] Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("It's all about choices.") [1] I can actually frame this in mundane if somewhat terrifying terms. Imagine that you're in an elevator with eight other people, all singing "Blinded by the Light", each with slightly different (misheard) lyrics. And you own the album and *know* the correct lyrics. And they won't shut up. And if one of them tries to get the others to go along with their verson, the others instead ALL sing their versions louder than the person next to them, because they each *know* they're right and if they can only drown out they others then the other seven will come around to the Right Way of Thinking. That's hell for you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:54:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning - --- Marc Bowden wrote: > I can actually frame this in mundane if somewhat > terrifying > terms. Imagine that you're in an elevator with eight > other people, > all singing "Blinded by the Light", each with slightly > different > (misheard) lyrics. And you own the album and *know* the > correct lyrics. And they won't shut up. Wow. That, I think, is the best description of IN's Hell that I've ever read. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:38:33 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST >3. a rumor of an easy redemption Must this be an actual, literal Redemption? Or can it follow the more mundane definition? I sure hope it's the latter. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:12:10 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Consider the World My. God. Wow. This is the single -best- depiction of Eli I'd ever heard. If I was worried about him falling before (which I wasn't, but hey), that would've cleared any doubts in my mind. And it perfectly explains his walkabout, something which I always felt would be crucial to any long-term IN campaign, up there with Kobal's joke. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 18:56:39 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST >From: "Eric Bertish" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST >Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:38:33 -0400 > >>3. a rumor of an easy redemption > >Must this be an actual, literal Redemption? Or can it follow the more >mundane definition? > Interpret your ingredients however you like. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:07:45 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> nature of the Symphony (was: Consider Lightning > > [1] I can actually frame this in mundane if somewhat terrifying > terms. Imagine that you're in an elevator with eight other people, > all singing "Blinded by the Light", each with slightly different > (misheard) lyrics. And you own the album and *know* the correct > lyrics. And they won't shut up. And if one of them tries to get the > others to go along with their verson, the others instead ALL sing > their versions louder than the person next to them, because they each > *know* they're right and if they can only drown out they others then > the other seven will come around to the Right Way of Thinking. That's > hell for you. > Please, please, please do me a favor: never, ever mention that again. It is so close to being a working diagram it's scary. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:46:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> Consider Freedom... Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:26:44 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: IN> Consider Freedom... Most interesting. As a side note, I am now imagining Lilith as Ayn Rand. (pause) Actually, it would be more accurate that I _was_ so imagining, as I have just freed that thought back into the wild. My apologies for any pain that this might have caused, but I need to finish my work by 5:30 and the cackling was getting in the way. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 15:51:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Consider Freedom... Maurice Lane wrote: > As a side note, I am now imagining Lilith as Ayn Rand. I thought the same thing, but didn't want to drop the name since I have known it to cause flame-wars (though not on this list). Well, now we'll see... I thought it was very interesting that Neel could provide a complete "Consider" posting from a totally non-IN-related source. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:43:52 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev INGREDIENTS LIST At 6:56 PM -0400 5/4/01, Jo Hart wrote: >> >> >>>3. a rumor of an easy redemption >> >>Must this be an actual, literal Redemption? Or can it follow the more >>mundane definition? >> > > >Interpret your ingredients however you like. "Hey -- I hear they've got one of those Cansavers vending machines over at the Safeway! You just stick the cans in, it sucks 'em up and crushes 'em, and you get a receipt good for store credit. Easiest redemption in the city!" - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:56:12 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> 5/24/01 - Got Napalm? Genius. I always figured that he wasn't nearly as stupid as some people portray him as being. His dissonance condition alone proves that. Good read. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:55:05 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Freedom... From: "Earl Wajenberg" > > I thought the same thing, but didn't want to drop the name > since I have known it to cause flame-wars (though not on this > list). That's not a terribly Objective thing to say, now is it? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:21:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> The Lady and the Scarab (Iron Rev submission power!) All right. I'm 900 words over, and therefore likely disqualified. Sue me. *** *** *** The Scarab of the Ages was a beetle once -- oversized and bloated, but alive -- before being touched by the hands of the Gods... or at least by the hands of Ethereals, which is almost as good. It is said the Scarab was used to bring wisdom to the Pharaohs, and that seems true enough, as the Scarab in its current form -- a heavy stone of blue and yellow, apparently formed by coating the original insect with a substance that solidified and has discolored over the centuries -- is a talisman of significant power, granting its holder Detect Lies/6, Knowledge: Economics/6, Knowledge: Political Science/6, Knowledge: Law/6, Savoir Faire/6, Emote/6 and Intimidation/6. One of the true mysteries of the Scarab of the Ages, beyond what kind of power could have created so complete a talisman, is how the skills the artifact grants seem to apply to whatever culture the holder finds himself within. So, a farmer in Ancient Sparta could speak intelligently on Spartan finances, the political structure of Sparta and the other Greek states, Sparta's laws and so on... and a farmer in Illinois can speak intelligently on Illinois finances, the political structure of Illinois and the United States, America's laws.... It is a powerful artifact indeed, and therefore it isn't surprising it would become a target. Having been discovered in an Egyptian exhibit by Elibbi, a Calabite of Theft, it was only a matter of time before it would be stolen and carried away. The Scarab was stolen in New York. Elibbi didn't truly understand what she had, of course. She had never been a very bright Calabite, which made it hard to serve Valefor well. She knew she had an artifact, but not what kind. Perhaps, she reasoned, Valefor would be happy with her if she turned it in. So, she began making her way to the nearest Tether to Theft. Of course, she was carrying the Scarab as she went, and naturally it began to open her thoughts to new possibilities. After all, it was clearly valuable, and while politically it would be wise to curry favor with her Prince, dramatic thefts made one noticable. If she could convert the Scarab into other resources -- perhaps resources that fit her needs -- she could both get credit for stealing the thing in the first place and get some tangible benefit. This could put her in the enviable position of impressing Valefor without asking any reward -- a win-win situation! So, she needed to hold onto the Scarab while she worked out the best people to fence it with. Even as her political saavy had expanded with the Scarab's influence, however, so had her economic savvy. She knew that there were many Princes in New York, and that they traded favors carefully. She had to be certain the party she sold the Scarab to would both reward her appropriately and wouldn't ruffle the wrong feathers. So, she carefully let out feelers while carefully observing all the proper etiquette for the sale. Sadly, the Scarab doesn't make one precognative. The feelers Elibbi sent out were enough out of character to make the Game suspicious of her. When the Game contacted her "to arrange the sale," Elibbi was able to see through their lies and back off. Using her understanding of mortal law and criminal etiquette, Elibbi was able to make life difficult for the Gamesters. Still, she decided that New York City was unhealthy for her, right that moment, and instead flew out to Las Vegas, Nevada, where she contacted the powerful and significant Mammon presence. It made more sense to broker the Scarab through the Mammonites when there was this much heat, especially when she was pushing Renegade status as it was. The Mammonite she contacted -- an old 'friend' of hers named Nygerious -- was a powerful Balseraph in Las Vegas's largely demon controlled streets. Mammon might be a minor Demon Prince these days, but Las Vegas is his, after all. Nygerious made some inquiries about the Scarab Elibbi described to him, and figured out it might be the Scarab of the Ages. Knowing this, he contacted the nearest Tether of Death, and made a side deal, learning what the Samingans would pay for such a powerful and prestigious Egyptian Artifact (it being known Saminga wants inducements to learn more Necromancy from the Egyptians). Having learned how much he could get for the Scarab of the Ages, as well as a rough guess at what Elibbi would sell it for, Nygerious decided to 'reduce his overhead.' even as Elibbi's plane was landing. The Mammonites met her at the airport, and tried to bully her into giving up the Scarab for far too little. She saw through their bluff and used her own (Scarab-enhanced) talents for Intimidation to back them off. When Nygerious joined them and tried to open negotiations of his own, Elibbi saw the way the political winds were turning and beat a hasty retreat. She fled into the heart of the city. Sadly, the Scarab didn't contain any skills in irony, so Elibbi thought nothing of getting a room in the fabulous -- and Egyptian themed -- Luxor hotel. While not *too* opulant, her room is halfway up the huge glass Pyramid, overlooking the strip. At this point, she considered returning to her Heart in Hell and simply seeking Valefor's protection, but having sought better rewards than his before, Elibbi's grown paranoid -- if she had successfully fenced the Scarab, that would be one thing -- but her coup in stealing the Scarab in the first place had been nullified by her mistakes in trying to sell it, her attracting the Game, and her problems in Las Vegas. This only grew worse when her paranoia and indecision led her to stay in the hotel for more than three days, starting a dissonance cycle. Elibbi has started to build an organization of informants -- using her political saavy and savoir faire to good advantage -- while staying in the relatively safe confines of the Luxor. This has begun to make her dissonant, of course, but she hopes to cope with that later -- when the heat has died down a little. Realizing she needs money to really peddle influence (and buy herself back into the Mammonites' good graces, if not Nygerious's), she has begun to build up a stock portfolio (using the Scarab's Economics skill, of course). Stocks are the safest way for her to gather money, after all -- she has no particular skill in gambling and doesn't dare use her talents for Theft in the heart of Mammon's city. Not when she wants to get into Mammon's good graces. Elibbi doesn't realize that her empire building is having repercussions, however. In many ways, she hasn't figured out just how powerful her Scarab is, or how it's affecting her way of doing things. The more money she amasses and the more recruits she takes into her organization, the more of an impact she has on the Las Vegas community. That impact has generally been beneficial, as well -- after all, true politicians know that the more you do for your constituants, the more they will do for you in turn. This 'positive motion' in the streets of Las Vegas has caught the attention of the Game, who have managed to learn Elibbi fled to that area. As she is staying in one area (a dissonant activity for any Servitor of Theft) and apparently doing the people in the area more good than harm, her Renegade status seems assured. At this point, several forces are converging on Elibbi, who uses the Luxor (and its "family friendly" atmosphere) as the safest haven she can, right now. The Game is closing in on her as a Renegade. The Mammonites know where she is, but don't want an incident, so they're willing to wait her out -- counting on dissonance to reduce her to a puddle of Discord soon enough, which in turn will let them walk in and get the Scarab. The Samingans, knowing that the Scarab is probably in Las Vegas, have begun to move into the city in force, as Saminga himself is interested in the project now and proceeding with his customary lack of grace. Nygerious is trying to figure out how to get rid of Elibbi without offending his superiors, while scoring the Scarab for himself. And even Heaven is getting involved, as Marc's Servitors have noticed the greatly increased (and scrupulous legal) stock trading going on, as well as money being spread down Elibbi's organization, improving their lives. Having learned that the benefactors is a Renegade Servitor of Theft who's not moving, it is felt that Elibbi would be an excellent candidate for Redeeming, and perhaps would Redeem more easily than normal. This, of course, is what the Game is afraid of. The PCs, naturally, are sent to get Elibbi. They could be Gamesters, whereupon their mandate is capturing Elibbi, stripping her of the Scarab, and dragging her to Hell for trial and punishment. The 'mainstream' Servitors of Mammon want to resolve the standoff in the Luxor without violence (and preferably by getting their hands on both the Scarab and a good chunk of Elibbi's new fortune) before too many major Demon Princes decide to get involved -- the PCs could be part of Las Vegas's Mammonite community or they could be 'freelance help' the Mammonites bring in to deal with the problem while remaining deniable. If serving (or hired by) Saminga, the PCs have to get the Scarab, preferably *with* an incident to spread a little death and spice things up. If they work for Marc (or otherwise are Angels), they're following up on the rumor of Elibbi going bright, and would seek to both pull her out (and to safety) and to keeping her organization intact, as a wedge against Mammon's strength in the city. Of course, any of the above would have to contend with Nygerious and *his* heavies -- but then the PCs could be hired or recruited by Nygerious to do *his* dirty work for him. He doesn't care what happens to Elibbi (and mostly doesn't care about her money) so long as he gets the Scarab and can finish his deal with the Samingans. Of course... Elibbi *isn't* really a Renegade, and it's safe to say Valefor's watching. He has her Heart, after all. The PCs might be Servitors of Theft, going in to rescue Elibbi. Or, to steal the Scarab and abandon her. Or, to steal her fortune and abandon her. Or, to steal the Scarab *and* her fortune and abandon her. Plus everything that isn't tied down. And who's to say the PCs couldn't have been recruited as a part of Elibbi's growing organization -- especially if they're themselves Outcast and/or Renegade. Or, a group of Renegades and Outcasts might be recruited by the Egyptian Ethereals to recover the Scarab of the Ages without either paying Saminga's price or anyone else's.... Regardless of the PCs' role, Elibbi is very hard to reach at this point. She's paid up several weeks in advance in her room, and most of the hotel's regular staff has fallen into her political and economic web. She's very highly regarded by the hotel staff and those near to the hotel -- perfectly generous, concerned and effective in getting things done when needed. As a result, simply breaking in and attacking Elibbi isn't likely to be effective. And, even if they *are* able to confront Elibbi alone, she won't go down without a fight -- and while Elibbi *is* dissonant (and possibly discordant at this point), she is still a powerful Calabite, and not at all easy to destroy. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2203 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.