From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 8 15:16:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32335 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 15:16:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA08327 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 8 May 2001 15:24:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:24:02 -0500 Message-Id: <200105082024.PAA08327@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2211 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2211 In this digest: IN> Iron Rev questions Fwd: Re: IN> May 2, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Iron Rev questions IN> DISCO DISCO DISCO! Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more IN> For the love of Athena Re: IN> Question about the Books Re: IN> Long Live the Queen (Iron Rev submission) Re: IN> For the love of Athena Re: IN> Random IN-related stuff IN> RE: Player Characters - They're not just for breakfast anymore. RE: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more Re: IN> This isn't funny... really... Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Re: IN> Canon Question - Identification of First Redeemed Re: IN> This isn't funny... really... Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more IN> A PC speaks. IN> Re:IN > Consider Cthulhu IN> Amalgam: Vapula & Saminga Re: IN> Iron Rev questions Re: IN> Question about IST characters... Re: IN> Amalgam: Vapula & Saminga Re: IN> Iron Rev questions Re: IN> May 2, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Amalgam: Vapula & Saminga Re: IN> May 1, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Iron Rev questions Re: IN> Canon Question - Identification of First Redeemed Re: IN> For the love of Athena IN> The Sealed File : Document 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Iron Rev questions I've been going through the Iron Rev adventures (especially the ones sent directly to Jo*), and I have a couple of questions. 1) What's the deadline for sending in our votes? 2) Any 'official' ruling on wordcount, and how it should affect voting? And, of course: 3) When do we get to do this again?*** Moe *No fair using maps, Jon**. :) **And as for your direct stealing of fictional characters, Janet ... OK, I'm just annoyed that I didn't think of it first. ***My vote would be... IRON SUPERIORS!!!!! ;) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:55:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> May 2, 2001 (ML) >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:32:55 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["John Walter Biles" ] > >From: "John Walter Biles" >Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:17:21 -0500 >Subject: Re: IN> May 2, 2001 (ML) >Reply-to: ranma@KU.edu > >On 7 May 01, at 21:50, Maurice Lane wrote: > >> Question of the day: if Episcopalians (and, >> presumably, Anglicans) can start religious orders, why >> did Henry VII close all the monast... >> >They stayed closed for centuries; the Tractarians of the nineteenth >century were responsible for restarting religious orders for Anglicans, if >I remember correctly. > > > >John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas >ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html >rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ >"That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, >11th century > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:36:02 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev questions > ***My vote would be... IRON SUPERIORS!!!!! > ;) That's got my vote. :::) Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:44:12 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> DISCO DISCO DISCO! Haagenti: Get down and Boogey with your bad self! Nybbas: FEVERRRRRR Andrephalus: The white suits are ssooooo in! Lilith: Good job! - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:44:39 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more Phillip wrote: > > Comments (and explanations) are invited. > > > > I'd have to agree. While I sometimes get players who can be a handfull, not > necessarily out of stupidity but out of a seeming precognitive ability to > through a plot out of joint *glances at Daiv*, I'd have to say that most > players I run with are of the variety that are well-suited for In Nomine, > that is thoughtful, insightful, and with a good sense of humor *glances at > Daiv*. On the whole, player-(or GM-)bashing just cheapens the Cause Of > Gaming. > > Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel, Divine nature reaffirme Haiku prophecy see seventeen syllables into the future - -daiv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:48:47 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> For the love of Athena This is an interesting adventure seed which I think is perfect for my ethereal loving players but I'm not sure how to pull this one off. Athena the ethereal goddess is commonly known as a virgin goddess but unlike Artemis this is not due to hatred of men (imagine you watch your mom harried by beasts til her deaths for loving one) but because she just has exceptionally high standards. Well she's finally found someone who makes her heart run askip but unfortunately the rest of her pantheon personally despise this man and she matched swords with him to a draw during the Purity Crusade before the retreat was sounded. Yes I mean laurence though Khalid would be fun. Now how exactly does one go about courting the archangel of christianity... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:11:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about the Books At 7:08 AM -0700 5/5/01, edenesque@juno.com wrote: >know yet), and I was wondering in which books I would find information on >Malphas, Novalis, Litheroy, Furfur, and Magog. Thank you. :) Litheroy is in the GM-Screen adventure, Feast of Blades. This may well be no longer in print. O:/ Malphas' extended writeup is in _The Final Trumpet_ (along with the first extension of Michael (whose extended extended writeup is in Superiors 1), Kobal (ditto but for S2), and Baal). Magog is in Final Trumpet as well. Novalis has no extended writeup at this time. Furfur is in Night Music. ewould be more coherent but there is a baby bouncing around in my lap. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:13:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Long Live the Queen (Iron Rev submission) At 1:31 AM -0400 5/6/01, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >On Sat, 5 May 2001, Eric Bertish wrote: >Hmm... I just went by the byte count given, since my editor doesn't have a >word-count feature. "1,000 words (~10K)", and it was a little under 9K. >Looking at it, though, word-for-word, I might've been a little over, too. The word-count is really a K-count -- the list admin (gee, who dat?) gets whimpery at really long messages, remember? O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:52:20 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> For the love of Athena >Now how exactly does one go about courting the archangel of christianity... Convert. :-) - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:17:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Random IN-related stuff At 1:04 PM +0000 5/6/01, Jinnie Cracknell wrote: >Is there a Demon of Annoying Typos? And if so, which Demon Prince does he or >she serve, what are his or her rites etc.? I don't know, but I suspect there is -- though if the Princess of Nitpicking catches up with it, not for long. >Never tell your GM anything that might give them a plot idea. I told mine >about an IN-themed nightmare I had and he cackled and said that I had given >him an idea for an evil plot. So? That's the fun part. O:> >Wouldn't it be fun if you had a Cherub attuned to you and you fell in love? With the Cherub? That's a good explanation for the Wind Cherubim. >(I'm sure I've just given more people plot ideas - D'Oh!) > >What happens to all the Words when the War is over, assuming Heaven wins? Fnord. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 12:59:23 -0500 From: Michael Mihallik Subject: IN> RE: Player Characters - They're not just for breakfast anymore. Greetings from a chronic lurker - It's true that many GMs who post to this list make the assumption that PCs are either utter lackwits or mindless battle drones (or both). But I'm here to assert that it only takes one such player (maybe two) to lower the collective IQ of your group to idiocy, or to inspire even Mercurians of Flowers to acts that would make serial killer take a step back. It's like a contagion, and because the people we play with are typically freinds outside of the roleplaying sessions, excising the disease can be a hellishly invasive procedure. I'll be fair and say that the contagion doesn't always take hold. Some groups are naturally resistant. Good GMs deal with the contaminating influences in a firm and decisive manner. Still, the problems continue to relapse at odd intervals despite the best efforts. Another consideration is that as GMs we are privy to every detail of the plots we inflict upon our players. It can be frustrating when we think we've given ample clues to the mystery which is central to the campaign, only to have our players look up at us with vapid grins and take the game off in some unforeseen direction. It happens. So we the GMs, unwilling to abandon our carefully crafted storylines, "dumb-down" our plots, or give clues that the PCs should by all rights not have gotten, just to keep the game on track. Most of the story seeds posted to the list are deliberately skeletal to allow the individual GM to customize things to his or her own taste. A few, however, have been deliberately crafted so that a brainless combat munchkin (such as some of us GMs are plagued with) can follow the plot with only a few grunts of miscomprehension. If you're lucky enough to be free of the plague, more power to you. Add all the complexity you want. Just thank heavens you don't have some of the players I've had. Dialas Independent Reporter for the Nybbas News Network ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:00:43 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more << While reading the Iron Rev entries and Moe's Order of St. Athanasius writeup, something occurred to me: do the GMs on this list have as low an opinion of PCs as all that? And if so, why? >> I think there's a difference between low opinion and accepting cliches of PC behaviour. I have a very high opinion of players and their "rights" in a game (not to be railroaded, to have some amount of authorial control over the game, to not have their character concepts terribly warped by the GM, etc). << I'm the first to agree that PCs can be aggravating, stubborn, weird, and come up with situations that no one in their right mind could ever imagine. >> Honestly, if PCs weren't wierd and unpredictable, that would take most of the fun out of DMing for me. I expect them to do wild, strange things -- indeed, I base my games on it. Look at my plot hook and note that it presents a situation; what the PCs do with it is completely in their hands. I put in the warning about needing role players in the sense of people who want to talk to NPCs, not fight, because I've had players attack Superior-level beings in other games before, and my scenario has Gabriel running around torching Vegas. Ahead of time, I "allocate" a certain amount of creative inertia to the players. If they don't provide that input, the adventure will lag -- but that never seems to happen. Indeed, I've based whole adventures off consequences and aftereffects of things players have done, whether sensible or inane. (And I don't mean that I warp players' actions until they are a Monkey's Paw deal... indeed, many of the consequences that spawn stories can be both /good/ for the player and exactly what the player /intended/.) << The reason I'm the first to agree is that I'm a PC myself most of the time, so I know. The other reason is my recent experience with being a GM, which many of you have already heard about. >> GMs might joke about it, but I think any GM that is _really_ worth his salt _likes_ a creative, unpredictable player, especially in contrast to a real dullard who just goes wherever he's pushed... and needs to be pushed to get him to go anywhere. It's only when you get the egomaniac GMs who want _all_ the creativity, all the authorial control, so that _their_ story will go exactly as they want it, that contempt for players results. << But so many of the GM ideas on this list hinge on the assumption that PCs 1) are stupid, 2) are incapable of thinking, 3) will never stop and investigate something before acting, and 4) work on the "Kill it first and then sort it out" theory. >> I can't speak for other scenarios, but with Moe's St. Athanasius scenario, it's *logical* that players will assume the monastary is Celestially influenced; we don't see uninfluenced monastaries much in IN because they aren't *relevant* to the game. Same reason we don't roleplay our characters using the washroom or brushing their teeth. So Moe took advantage of this "genre convention" to weave a comiedic scenario. It's perfectly possible that players will clue in that it /is/ just a mundane monastary... in which case the demons show up, and you _still_ have a cool comiedic scenario as they have to skulk around conspiratorially and try to figure out why the /other/ side is here. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:35:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> This isn't funny... really... >In article , >jmensch@home.com (Julian Mensch) wrote: > >> Actually, it hovers halfway between amusing and >> disturbing. Check out this new-age angel page: >> >> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dastony/angels/angelsamong.html >> >> Go under "angels," then "archangels." This individual >> seems to have mistaken a list of In Nomine Superiors >> for RL angel lore. It looks like he came upom the SJG >> Prerelease and just copied out the list of Archangels. >> Someone should really politely tell him, because any >> case of people treating RPG settings as if they were >> real is /bad/, in terms of publicity, but I really have >> no idea how best to explain this to him. Anyone else >> care to address this? More to the point, it's not conforming to the online policy as laid out at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html . For which I have just sent him a note that it was flattering for him to be quoting them, but they needed to conform to the policy. (If the page doesn't change, I'll have to tell SJ about the page, and then we'll all be grumpy...) - --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor (arcangel@io.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:39:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dreamlands Question At 4:01 PM -0700 5/7/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >Okay. I've looked and looked and my Perception 1 is preventing me >discovering the truth . . . > >How can you enter a Dreamscape from /within/ the Marches?? Corporeal Song of Dreams or Dreamwalking, IIRC. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:45:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Canon Question - Identification of First Redeemed At 12:12 PM -0400 5/8/01, William J. Keith wrote: >>No books with me, so I need to ask: I remember that >>the name of the first demon to Redeem is somewhere in >>canon, but I can't remember the name, Choir or >>Superior. Anybody know? >> >>Moe > >Oresto, a Cherub of Dreams -- in fact, the Angel of Dreams of Love! > >He's mentioned in the Legends section of Blandine's extended writeup, the >Word-Bound sidebar of the same writeup, and I think the IPG or the GMG, in >which he describes the experience (grew to like the feelings he got from >his pseudo-Cherub state). Eh? That's not necessarily Oresto in the IPG -- the name of that redeemed Djinn isn't given. But if people _want_ to consider that to have been his story, I won't carp. (Though I had been thinking of him as a much younger Djinn than a pre-redemption demon, when I (re-)wrote that section.) I think Jo has a description of Oresto -- or proto-Oresto -- on her website. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:26:48 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> This isn't funny... really... > page doesn't change, I'll have to tell SJ about the page, and then > we'll all be grumpy...) > Hmm... invoking SJ, Archangel of Ineffability? Are you sure that's safe? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:58:40 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more >While reading the Iron Rev entries and Moe's Order of >St. Athanasius writeup, something occurred to me: do >the GMs on this list have as low an opinion of PCs as >all that? And if so, why? A fair enough question. My personal answer to the first? Ummm... yes and no. Yup, we all have horror stories (heck, we're all _protagonists_ in somebody else's horror stories, probably), but the last few times that I've personally gotten to GM, I've had actual roleplayers. I pretty much GM on the 'karma' method anyway: do dumb/smart things, and the universe notices... but the PCs get the benefit of the doubt until they actually demonstrate that they'll be Doing Dumb Things tonight. That's the 'No' answer. The _'Yes'_ answer, OTOH, is a little more complicated (at least in my case), and has several facets. First off, again in my case, is that I didn't train as a normal GM. I was a Paranoia GM (oldstyle, before this 'let them survive' abomination infected the system), and that gets its hooks deep into a person. Frankly, I _don't_ assume that logic will rule the day.* I assume that PC logic will rule the day. That leads to the second facet: when you game with someone, you game with every person that that person has ever gamed with. To use a personal example, that was actually the point of the Order of Athanasius writeup I did: the reason why one can count on PCs investigating a perfectly innocent nunnery to a fare-the-well is because their players know the cliches all too well, and would normally be justified in being paranoid. That's where PC logic comes into play - and it's partially the fault of the collective GM population for causing them to metagame in the first place. When you have something as stylized as roleplaying, you end up knowing the hidden rules, and act accordingly - whether it would make sense in the real world or not. I like to take advantage of that in things that I write up, when the mood suits me. Nothing like a cliche stood on its head for some lovely, messy chaos. The third facet? Well (again, in my case) ... I don't just write this stuff out for the list (although I'll post it all here, because I like 'hearing' people laugh). There are GMs out there that _do_ have players that need to be whacked on with Plot Sticks to keep them in line (kind of masochistic, if you ask me, but if everyone's enjoying themselves, who am I to judge?): why shouldn't they get stuff geared for them, too? Honestly, the more experienced GMs don't really _need_ any seeds that I come up with, if indeed they need anything. If they do, it'd probably be things that take a couple of hours of precious time to work out, like relics or NPCs or Tethers or Superiors (well, the last category really needs at least three days to a week to do properly). Now, I'm not personally trying to replace the INC, mind, but I would like to have something for everyone... which means a /wide/ variety of stuff. And lastly, of course, there's the fact that I'm a sarcastic bast**d with an inappropriate sense of humor at times (which is probably the real reason). :) So, again... yes and no. Moe *And I also don't seem to have that odd automatic hesitation between 'this PC is acting foolishly - worse, he's being boringly foolish' and 'I kill him' that I've noticed in GMs not trained in Paranoia. I've learned to _fake_ such a hesitation, when necessary, but that has its own risks. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:02:11 -0400 From: Mary Subject: IN> A PC speaks. >I'm the first to agree that PCs can be aggravating, stubborn, weird, and >come up with situations that no one in their right mind could ever imagine. We have to, you don't give us enough toys. Seriously, an average strategy oriented GM puts their situations in positions that a SWAT team or a couple of under cover FBI agents would have difficulty handling. On top of that, we're usually not playing SWAT team members. Well, maybe Peter. But we don't have the resources to do things logically. PCs 1) are stupid, I prefer "paranoid" and, to quote a former PC, just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong. Please remember GM's that riddles are a lot easier when you know the answer. It might seem obvious to *you* but then you have the answers, besides--why should we trust your clues--you're out to get us. 2) are incapable of thinking Depends on the PC. It also depends on the character, I know I've had moments where I've thought wow, this is not a life-affirming action, but some PC's have different priorities than some. 3) will never stop and investigate something before acting, Unfortuately, a lot of GM's don't make investigation profitable. Seriously, how many times have you heard, or said to your clever PC's who are at a municipal building or library, "you don't find anything interesting." What this tells them is that investigation is a waste of time and not very fun. You also have to make it possible. It sucks when the enemy knows all our plans because they are kewl. If everyone is much better at sneaking around and gathering information than we are, we are more likely to stick to the devil we know. At least then, we have the satisfaction of making them less pretty before we die. 4) work on the "Kill it first and then sort it out" theory. Well, sometimes its good to paranoid. Besides some characters have this view point. Many of them in in nomine. If you want players to change, make it profitable for us to do so. Similarly, if you continue to have the players ambushed, taken hostage and bad things happen to them and their friend or wards, they are probably not going to be a little trigger happy. Also, GM's reward this--unconsciously or no. Are your NPC's impressed or sympathetic to your party geek? Does the mercurian get taunted by the big martial types but everyone is nice to the malakim in the group? Make sure you're being even-handed about things likes this. In a good game, this should be even handed. "It's not just Science, it's an Adventure!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:14:44 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Re:IN > Consider Cthulhu I'm not *really* sure how to take this.... are you wagging me? The Sleepy Guy - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:24:43 -0400 From: Mike Bruner < bruner@delaware.infi.net > Subject: IN > Consider Cthulhu "Bbbbbbaaadahahdhadhadhbbbaaaa!!..." *crunch* *chew, chew* *BURP!* (Forgive the silliness; you can blame Mr. Phipps's "Consider Pikachu" for putting the idea in my head (after all, the thought of Pikachu brings insanity, so from there it was a quick mental leap...)) - - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net ("Aiieeee!" "No, no, it's 'Ia, ia'...") _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:19:31 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Amalgam: Vapula & Saminga So I was just sitting around, minding my own business, when I was struck with a neat little idea for a list fad: Amalgamated Superiors! I guess I should give an example ... VAPULINGA Demon Prince of Thanotech "The world is a death machine, a piston-driven iron maiden that exists only to kill... Speaking of which ... Would you mind squirting a little gease on those gears over there? It seems to be having some trouble shutting completely." When Vapulinga, one of the first Elohim not personally created by God, witnessed the extinction of the Dinosaurs, he knew that his life had changed. Death was a fascinating force, but it was, truth be told, slow and inefficient. Anyone could see that the ultimate end of the universe was death, so why stand around doddling? Wouldn't it be better to help everything along a little? Ultimately, these feelings led Vapulinga to join the service of Lightning. In those early days, man had not yet learned how to consistantly make fire, but the Halls of Progress already gleamed with the promise of new technologies that the Corporeal Plane would not see for millions of years. Aptly enough, a great many of the secret mechanisms involved not just death but death on a grand scale. It was all very beautiful: swords and cannons, handguns and high explosives, chemicals and infectious diseases, all the products of a delightful marriage between Technology and Death. Around 25,000 BCE, when Jordi got sick of humanity and wanted to gut the whole lot, Vapulinga was right behind him. When Michael got in the way, acting on what he claimed were direct orders from God, no one was more disappointed than the Elohite. Still, if Vapulinga had his way, all the animals and plants would meet the reaper too (more specifically, an automated steam-driven power-reaper, if possible), and there was no way Jordi would agree to that. It seemed that no one in Heaven truly understood the logic of the world. Everything must die. That was simply the way things were. And Vapulinga alone knew the truth. Then the Rebellion occured. Since the Lightbringer and his allies were fighting against humanity, Vapulinga hoped that this would be the chance to set right what Michael had stopped earlier. After Lucifer won, Vapulinga would be free to use all his devices, bombs, and plagues to wipe the face of the world clean. After all, what they were fighting for was the superiority of Celestial-kind. Nobody cared about the ugly little mortals down there anyway, right? Even when the Rebellion failed, Vapulinga fell, and the demons ended up sealed in the pits of Hell, the newly reborn Habbalite didn't dispair. God was simply giving him a chance to freely inflict his Righteous Wrath on the mortals. And so, ever since then, he has been trying. It's been over 20,000 years since then, though, so, as you can imagine, there are a few complications. As the Demon Prince of Thanotech, Vapulinga's done a great job of putting machines of death in the hands of humanity. However, all of his plans to get animals and plants to kill each other have failed utterly. Finally, the Habbalite Prince has resorted to simply use humanity to kill everything on the planet, and that method is going along quite nicely. Still, whenever Vapulinga comes up with some great scheme to destroy all life, it gets foiled, not just by the forces of Heaven but, oftentimes, by the forces of Hell as well. Sigh. It continues to be the case that Vapulinga is the only one who understands the true Will of God. What a shame. The Habbalite Prince is forced to console himself by making bigger and more impressive machines that cause bigger and more impressively messy deaths. Luckily, he is easily amused (and, his servitors whisper, not too bright about anything other than killing machines) and will continue to be satified as long as he has a chainsaw and a room full of innocent people to massacre. See! This is great fun! Consider this a challange to the rest of the list. And if you want an especially interesting challange, try to realistically and believably combine an Archangel and a Demon Prince. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:23:18 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev questions >3) When do we get to do this again?*** >***My vote would be... IRON SUPERIORS!!!!! Okay, I'm probably showing my creative ineptitude here, but I'd like to push for A) and increased wordcount and B) an expansion from just the core book. I know, I know: any reasonably talented writer could do well with what was given; I've read the entries. Personally, I would have loved another thousand words and the ability to include Night Music. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:35:53 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Question about IST characters... >>> You Want More In Nomine Books >>Shouldn't that be -Need-? > >Oh, it will be, but one has to start with desire, then to yearning, >and _then_ the Need... Well, I *am* getting 'Fall of the Malakim' and Superiors 2 soon... (Yay www.half.com! ^_^) If anyone has any other recommendations, could you let me know? The core book is the only other one I have... ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you. Friedrich Nietzsche, 'Beyond Good and Evil' (Hmm. That gives me an *interesting* idea for a Fallen... ^_^) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:27:00 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Amalgam: Vapula & Saminga You are a sick, sick man, and I desire to follow in your footprints. I'll be cooking with this idea for a few days, to be sure. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:32:59 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev questions >From: Maurice Lane > > >I've been going through the Iron Rev adventures >(especially the ones sent directly to Jo*), and I have >a couple of questions. > >1) What's the deadline for sending in our votes? I want to allow time for people to read through all the scenarios (I hadn't expected as many as 15 :)) and think it over, so I wasn't going to count votes until the weekend. ie. Have them sent in by Friday. > >2) Any 'official' ruling on wordcount, and how it >should affect voting? > Don't let it affect your voting. I'll note later (when I do the wrap) which of the scenarios made it in under 10K (and which under 1000 words). If we do this again, I'd be more anal about that criterion, because it is more of a challenge to bring a scenario in under a tight word count, but for now, it needn't be a factor. EAB's scenario is the only one that got disqualified, because Mammon's attunements aren't in the main book and I think you'd need that to run it (the other scenarios that mentioned minor princes gave enough info IMO to be runnable without needing more books.) >And, of course: > >3) When do we get to do this again?*** > > >***My vote would be... IRON SUPERIORS!!!!! Interesting question. I don't know, does anyone have any thoughts? I don't really want to do this too frequently, because people have lives and things and I don't want to intimidate new posters by being too demanding. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:34:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> May 2, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > The Order of St. Athanasius Nicely done, Moe. We GM's do tend to forget that the world consists mainly of ordinary people who do naught but ordinary things. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:40:34 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Amalgam: Vapula & Saminga Nicely done! >combine an Archangel and a Demon Prince. Many moons ago, during the heyday of Dark Victory, I had a thought. It was believed that Blandine and Beleth killed each other during a titanic battle in the Marches. I took that concept and.. skewed it a little. The two Celestials ripped great chunks from each other, but neither could claim victory, for they were too evenly matched. Instead, as they struggled, the Forces of one flowed into the gashes of the other.. and became a gestalt being: Beldine, Celestial of Hope. Neither Angel nor Demon, but... other. I never got much beyond that point, unfortunately. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:44:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> May 1, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Yeah, well, it was late and calling him an ethereal > god seemed a bit mean-spirited (IN is bad enough mojo > for atheistic NPCs as it is). I just wanted to post > and sleep. > "Zeitgeist". I like how that sounds. Thanks. :) Do itashimashite. > I agree, but that's the wonderful thing about > ethereals: they're based on the perception of reality, > not reality itself. Good point. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:46:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev questions - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > When do we get to do this again?*** [snip] > ***My vote would be... IRON SUPERIORS!!!!! Ooo! Ooo! Me, too! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:47:03 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Canon Question - Identification of First Redeemed >I think Jo has a description of Oresto -- or proto-Oresto -- on her >website. > > Wow, you have a good memory. That was written years ago, and I unlinked it from everything because I decided it was too cloying :) http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_thaw.html jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:54:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> For the love of Athena - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Now how exactly does one go about courting the archangel > of christianity... I would go the secret admirer route. The PC's are sent to investigate the source of the gifts that have been showing up at Tethers of the Sword addressed to Laurence by name. The notes that accompany them -- written immaculately in a woman's handwriting -- cause the Archangel to suspect the involvement of the Princess of Freedom. Turn them loose from there. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:53:03 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> The Sealed File : Document 1 THIS FILE IS SEALED BY THE HAND AND SIGN OF THE PRINCE OF THE GAME - --- (The following letter was found among the possessions of Amrath, Malakite of Eli, in the aftermath of the investigation of the subterranean mushroom Technology/sorcery plot 10abdj.6 (see relevant dossier) and associated clean-up work by the Servitors of our Master (see statements in relevant dossier). It was passed up to the highest levels due to certain curious statements in the narrative, and has since been classified as non-existent. Anybody who shows knowledge of this letter is to be reported, priority alpha-two-alpha.) - --- My beloved brother in Creation, I think it is time to mention certain details which I and some of your other elder siblings tend to keep rather private. This is for the good of Heaven, believe me: some things should be taken on faith, and others should be not too widely known. Yes, yes, I know: now you will call me a doomsayer and ninny, as is your wont. Believe me when I say that I treasure these incidences of good humor and merriment on your part, and I know the true affection you hold for me and for all the other Seraphim of our Lord, despite your frequent cries that we all need to -- what was that phrase -- loosen up? Very well, I will relax the tightness of my thinking -- ha, ha -- and get down to business. To wit -- the Purity Crusade, and your recent inflammatory comments. Yes, yes, I know that there are certain, shall we say, distasteful elements about it? That you, like so many younger angels, find yourself aghast at the populist images of sweet little spirits of nature being brutally massacred by the angels of Purity. I will admit this happened. However, there was a reason for that, and one which all the Archangels understood. And the tragedy of the matter is -- Uriel was stopped too soon. Let me continue. Our Archangel is the Archangel of Creation. Briefly put, he encompasses the physical world -- that is, the entire Corporeal plane, all that has been and is created -- and in a similar way, his mind encompasses that which we term the Marches. (I know that you were not told this before. Think about why, in your copious spare time which you would otherwise spend upon those abominable little scraps of fish and wasabi and rice which you claim to call good eating.) Now, you will probably point out that the Ethereals, as creations of man, should not harm his mind -- on the contrary, they should only strengthen it! This is true. However, when humans begin to worship such constructions, such false gods -- leaving aside the obvious reasons why we should object to their souls being led away from God, the All-Highest, he who created heaven and earth -- they allowed their souls to be drawn into the Marches upon death, miniature sacrifices to these eidolons of vanity. Like encysted tumours, like malignant carcinomas, these "Ethereals" and their very homes fed upon the substance of human souls now forever imprisoned within their boundaries. And they grew. Uriel's Crusade was not merely a blow against false faiths: it was an attempt to reclaim trapped souls, bound by their own ignorance and folly, prevented from ever ascending to the Higher Heavens and turning towards the true light of God. And in that attempt, it was also an essay to cleanse the mind of the Archangel of Creation from the growing sicknesses and foul masses which were forming and expanding therein. Ah, my brother, do not think to compare these to such imaginings as that detective of whom you are so fond -- Solar Pons, is that the name? -- or other fancies which give rise to dreams. Humans do not sacrifice their souls to such beliefs: they love them, they delight in them, they create them, and by doing so give praise to the Words of our Lord and of the Lady Blandine, but they do not give their souls to them in both life and death. Alas, Uriel's attempt was a noble failure. His remit and range grew too broad, and he struck down mere imaginings rather than managing to cleanse all the true cankers of corruption. Archangels such as Jordi and Blandine stood in his way -- though you may have noticed, in the records, the absence of any mention of _our_ Lord, who one might have thought would be among those most concerned -- and ultimately God himself reached forth his hand and bid the matter stay. And now, my brother in Creation, what is there to say? What indeed? You will have heard that the Archangel who created us has of late placed many of us with other masters, and has himself been behaving -- somewhat more irrationally than was his wont. For that reason, I and certain of my siblings who are old enough to know of these matters have decided to speak to you -- and to a few others, as well. The truth must be remembered, for I fear that soon the time will be hard upon us when the Archangel of Creation . . . No. I shall not utter such words, such possibilities. God guide the truth that is in me, and give me grace to share it with you, my brother in Creation. Be wary and be vigilant, oh Virtue, for I am afraid of what the future may bring. Alexi, Seraph of Creation - --- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2211 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.