From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 8 19:50:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24710 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 19:50:37 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA20720 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 8 May 2001 19:53:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:53:49 -0500 Message-Id: <200105090053.TAA20720@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2213 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2213 In this digest: IN> Hope.. Re: IN> A PC speaks. Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more IN> the Enlightened Master Re: IN> For the love of Athena Re: IN> Iron Rev Scenario: Short but sweet. Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Re: IN> Consider the Man Re: IN> New Prince (and example of monstrous egotism) (OOPS) IN> Kids and Will (Re: New Prince) IN> Birdy (Re: Sometimes the Light of Heaven burns...) Re: IN> Discord: Photosynthesis IN> Book Suggestions (Re: Question about IST characters...) Re: IN> Consider Secrets IN> Fwd: The Sailor Team, In Nominized (Pt. II) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:33:09 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Hope.. This is how im gonna start my next campeign, each of the players will have a word and have roughly 15 forces each. ================================================================ The small creature shivered, it was ethereal by design, but it presently stood before the entirety of the seraph council and the rest of the archangels. Amanel, a malakite of dreams, stood before beside it, looking at dominic as he spoke. "aye your most holy, i espied the creature as i was on my way to patrol the marches, it was hiding behind some rocks near my ladies tower. Within moments i had caught it, enquired of its name and its duties in the area, but all it would say was 'messenger' over and over, whilst saying this it tried to hide the message case behind its back. As it wouldnt answer me to any satisfaction so i called for a servitor or judgement and one Este, a cherub of yours, answered the call, attuned to it and sheilded it from the light of heaven and took it to your questioning center. I also went there and fully reported apon the scene, once questioned i awaited further orders from my lady, Blandine, who had been alerted to the situation. In short order i was summoned here" Dominic paced back and forth, the creatures message pouch in one hand and a finely enscribed peice of parchment. "Memberss of thiss essteemedad augusst conclave, you all have read this message which the creature had about its perssonage. I must ask all of you your mindss in thiss matter. Whilsst thiss misssive containss no concrete proof, it is signed by B and written to B. For ssometime now all of know that Lady Blandine iss over worked, this messsage clearly indicatess that sshe is willing to rejoin her esstranged partner, the dire missstresss Beleth. I ask all of you, here and now to allow me to bring thiss matter to a head with her. The craeture will ssay nothing on who created it or whom the messsage was being delivered to. I, WE, must know, i assk that we unmake it to sstudy itss forces of origin. Only then can we be certain of whether or not we have a traitor in our midst" Michael started to stand, a sneer on his lips and a growl in his throat, the crashing open of the councill room doors stilled him and the rest of the cacophony that ensued the moment Dominic stopped talking. Blandine walked in, silence ensued in her presence, eyes falling to the floor or about the hall. In barely a whisper she began to talk, as she did so, she picked up the creature and held it like a loved kitten in her arms. "You will not harm an innocent, this creature has done nothing wrong. For a long time now i have watched you all bicker like human children in the school yard. No more i say." She turned to laurence, who met her eyes with a steady gaze. "Would you start the crusade all over again? All for something taken wrongly." She turned to Dominic, still silence raged all about her. "You yourself said something just moments ago, something which was said and not heeded. You have falsly accused Michael, Gabriel and Eli, amongst others, and now you turn your sights to me. Where will it end? Well i for one will endmy part of it, here and now. I RENOUNCE MY WORD BEFORE THE EYES OF GOD AND ALL OF YOU AS MY WITNESSES. I hereby relinquish my word to each of you, so that you might oneday understand the pain i am always undergoing. I will not return to these sacred halls nor shall i see the light of heaven until you understand what i suffer for you all." With that she left, leaving them all stunned and still for a long while. They all felt her leave heaven, still they were motionless and silent as the responsobilty settled on them, a heavy weight pressing down apon them all. Eventually, one by one they left the council chambers until only michael and dominic were left in there, as michael reached for his ax, dominic slowly removed his hood, tears streaming from his many eyes "mea culpa mia culpa, eloi eloi hast thou forsaken me?" Michael dropped his axe, and wrapped his arms and tail about his choir brother and comforted him. Everything froze. Jean stood up, his back cracking and crunching as he stood, his fingers numb from the constant data variables he had to program in as the program run its course. "And so you see, each and every one of us is responsible, we need to act now, before this predicted simulation comes in to being" The private audience of a dozen archangels sat in stunned silence. "Hope" murmered Dominic "thats what she needs" "Help and hope but how?"muttered Marc "Beleth"pondered aloud Novalis "We need to bring her back or else we will lose the war without sweet Blandine's defences and hard work." ============================================================================== And that is prety much where the players come in. Well, hoped you liked it, i'd like some comments please, if you have the time. Only one of my palyers is on the list, and he's the co-gm for the game. *waves to nick* Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:41:58 -0400 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: Re: IN> A PC speaks. Mary wrote: > I prefer "paranoid" and, to quote a former PC, just because we're > paranoid > doesn't mean we're wrong. Please remember GM's that riddles are a lot > easier when you know the answer. It might seem obvious to **you** but > then > you have the answers, besides--why should we trust your clues--you're out > to get us. The second sentence I'll second. The first and third sentences bother me a great deal. GMs do need to keep in mind that it's often **very****hard** for the players to see things that you think you've put neon signs pointing at. Legitimately. I've stared at misses before--and they were misses by entire groups of people that I **know** for a fact to be too intelligent for there to have been any other explanation than me providing less cue than I intended. That's always hard to admit to yourself, because it's admitting that you screwed up. It's much more gratifying to mutter about the idiots you have in your group. On the other hand, as a player, I've missed things because I was tired, annoyed, distracted by other thoughts or otherwise indisposed that would have been dead obvious if I'd been using my brain at the time. And there's no reason for a GM to be merciful there. The "out to get us" line really bothers me, though, in a sense that I'll throw out as a question--which I'll give my own answer to, but I'm really curious how others see it. How adversarial should the relationship between players and GM be? To me, there's not a range but a space, dependent on game, setting, and a lot of other things, that sits somewhere between three points on a triangle. On one point, the GM is more or less the provider of background for a story that's being told. This style is extremely nonconfrontational, practically not adverserial at all. It emphasizes the "Role Playing" part and deemphasizes the "Game" part, and tends to work well for low-to-no combat campaigns. On another point, the GM is the arbiter of a lethal conflict between the PCs and their Enemy. This style is much more confrontational, obviously. The "hesitation between 'this PC is acting foolishly - worse, he's being boringly foolish' and 'I kill him'" that Moe mentioned (it's so perfectly stated that I'm just going to quote it, Moe) may or may not be there--if it's not, it's still fair. You trip, you fall, you break your head, you die. So sorry. On the third point, the GM is a puppetmaster, Q, the Trickster, Old Man Coyote throwing stumbling block after stumbling block into the players' paths and seeing how they react. This is confrontational as well, of course, but it tends more toward people just... staring... at... you... than it does toward lethality. Usually. What's common about all three of these, to me, is that they have to be fair to work. The second one in particular: if a GM is running NPCs that are doing absolutely everything they can to kill the PCs, that's one thing. If a GM is doing absolutely everything he or she can to kill the PCs, that's something entirely different and, IMO, unhealthy. It's also easy to fall into, when plans go awry. I've seen suggestions before that seemed to seriously advocate penalizing PCs--killing them, even--for succeeding in ways that the GM didn't expect. I'll freely admit I've felt like doing that before, when I watched three days' worth of planning go **poof** . But if it were done to me as a player, I'd get up and walk out of the room (or disconnect the socket, as the case may be, since I do much more online than tabletop roleplaying). You leave the hole for people to mess up the script, you deal with it when they do. Paranoia is a special case, of course. It doesn't have to be fair to work, but you know that going in. I tend to agree with Charles Glasgow that that makes it something just a couple of zip codes away from roleplaying. IMHO; YMMV. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:42:11 -0400 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more Janet Anderson wrote: > I think what I'm feeling about the St. Athanasius seed is the fact > that you're being unfair to the PCs because the *players* (not the > characters) are making an understandable assumption -- not that there > must be celestial influence over every religious organization, but > that the *GM* must have something in mind because that's the premise > of the game. I don't think that's metagaming; I think it's a fair > assumption. You gather together Friday night with a bunch of books > and assorted food; your characters are told to investigate a convent; > well, then, there must be something there, and if you don't find it > the first time you must have missed it, so look again and harder. I > can see a party feeling somewhat misused if they spend the entire > evening looking for something that isn't there while the GM snickers > behind his hands. Hm. I share your distaste for games where you can't win and can't break even (I *will* quit the game, under such circumstances, to complete the triad)... but I didn't quite see that in the St. Athanasius seed. If the plot was totally screwing over the players because of this assumption before they had a chance to correct it, I'd agree--but it's not. There are going to be NPCs from the Other Side there falling into exactly the same trap, and that inherently gives the players something to do that will be at least somewhat productive. I'm essentially thinking of it in terms of a parody. The best parodies are fundamentally respectful to their source material, even when they skewer it--take _Galaxy Quest_ and _Austin Powers_ as an example. Parodies whose purpose is to let out vitriol are rarely successful. The St. Athanasius seed maps to the former, IMO--it's messing with the players' minds based on their preconceptions, handing a bunch of adventure characters *and* adventure villains a completely mundane scenario and watching them all have segmentation faults. Now, if the intent of the GM were to manipulate the players into slaughtering the members of the Order, for instance, that'd be far more mean-spirited, and would be something I wouldn't appreciate finding myself playing in. At all. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:55:47 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> the Enlightened Master Here's an interesting adventure seed. A partially Judeo-Christian Apcolyptical cult is under investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a string of bombings, arsons, and weapons stockpiling that has been reported throughout the system. The cult has control over a small town (let's call it Springfield which is the name of all Celestial controlled towns) that is the source of the operations and the charismatic leader gives his frequent sermons present there and it's believed public executions of sinners though no proper evidence of this has been observed. The FBI is preparing to mobilize against it and theres the makings of another all too similar tragedy to something that happened before...unfortunately the problem is that one of the Celestials onboard the FBI investigation board is an angel of the Sword who just happens to recognize "the Enlightened master" of the Cult. and it's a Celestial of Uriel's. This would be enough to bring up warning lights anyways but in truth the Celestial of Uriel's was soul killed battling the head of the Roman forces attacking the stronghold of the Zealots (A Shedim) roughly two thousand years ago. A remanent shouldn't be able to last this long but apparently the high ranking servitor has enough of his memories left that he is able to recover enough "will" to enlessly repeat the cycle of rebellion, attack, and eventual destruction throughout history*. Laurence is torn because he personally is repulsed by the beating humans into a cycle of murderous frenzy in the name of the lord god and then leading them to suicide via shoot outs or more drastic means to avoid capture however the being in question was the seneschal of the tether of Purity and he understood how he did not want it tainted either...abeit by warping his viewpoint a bit nor that he might be fully held responsible for the actions in question he does. The PCs are thus sent as character judges and people to break the Cult leaders hold on the civilization before the FBI assault the town and decide whether or not "The Enlightened Master" is worthy of being restored to his new form or not - -Charlemagne * Curious can a remenant eventually earn enough experience to restore a lost force of will or intelligence? Is this against the spirit of the game that remanents are mindless beings by effectively allowing them to restore themselves but if so are they angels or human beings? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:27:45 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> For the love of Athena >This is an interesting adventure seed which I think is perfect for my >ethereal loving players but I'm not sure how to pull this one off. Athena >the ethereal goddess is commonly known as a virgin goddess but unlike >Artemis this is not due to hatred of men (imagine you watch your mom harried >by beasts til her deaths for loving one) but because she just has >exceptionally high standards. Well she's finally found someone who makes her >heart run askip but unfortunately the rest of her pantheon personally >despise this man and she matched swords with him to a draw during the Purity >Crusade before the retreat was sounded. > >Yes I mean laurence though Khalid would be fun. > >Now how exactly does one go about courting the archangel of christianity... Athena's aspects are commonly, craft, war and wisdom. Strikes me would have more chance courting Michael. Craft to make the gifts, she has the wisdom to know how or when to send them with best effect, and once they meet the ability to swap old war stories especially those about how to haul the backsides of others out of the mire. Warrior lke nothing more than swapping old war stories. Of course Laurence might appreciate having his backside hauled out by someone other than Michael. Hmm, plot seed. Athena rescuse some Laurnetians from whatever mess they got into. No mention initially of who set it up.... A hook by which she could get close to Laurence. This could be possible. Athena does not have the power of an AA but do not forget she still has potential access to a great deal of essence. All those temples, all those tourists, a city etc. The temples are still amazingly impressive and awe inspiring. Even on the Acropolis hill in high season the Athena Nike temple is serene and calm, (most tourists simply head for the large structure built to civic pride). I have never dared set foot within the inner sanctum of the Nike temple, to me it still feels wrong to do so. The essence she has and still gains must count for something and if saved and used sensibly..... The wise know how to make best use of their resources. Athena is wise. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:53:20 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev Scenario: Short but sweet. > There was no minimum word limit. :) > > -EDG > In April of 2001, a covert ops team went into rural Austria to retrieve a > Captain of Corsairs for Redemption. This cassette tape was all that was found. Dude!! hee hee hee - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:36:30 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Dreamlands Question > >Perry Lloyd wrote: > > > > How can you enter a Dreamscape from /within/ the > > > > Marches?? > > >Celestials and ethereals can. I can't remember whether or not Dream >Soldiers and Saints can -- I'd need to dig through my EPG notes. > >-David Oh, okay. "HOW do you enter a Dreamscape from /within/ the Marches" would be my question better phrased, perhaps. - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:54:39 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Perry Lloyd wrote: > Oh, okay. "HOW do you enter a Dreamscape from /within/ the Marches" would> be my question better phrased, perhaps. OK, OK, I actually went and looked up my notes. Bear in mind, this is from the UNPUBLISHED (and therefore, technically not canonical, though it probably will become canonical if it ever gets published, which it won't, who, me bitter?) draft of the EPG. Basic rules: Celestials and humans can only enter dreamscapes using the Corporeal Song of Dreams or the Dreamwalking attunement, period. They can use either power to enter a dreamscape whether they start on the corporeal plane or are already in the Marches, trying to enter a dreamscape they see in front of them. Without one of those two abilities, you can just think of a dreamscape as an impenetrable force field -- onlookers who are wandering the Marches can peek inside, but they can't intrude. The above is basically consistent with existing canon. The following is what I wrote for the EPG (summarized and paraphrased, so I'm not really "publishing" anything): Ethereal spirits _who are already in the Marches_ can invade dreamscapes with a Precision roll. Multiply the spirit's Ethereal Forces times the check digit for the number of minutes he can stay. Failed roll means the spirit can't invade that dreamscape (though when the dreamer awakens and then returns to the Marches the following night, that's considered a new dreamscape...) This doesn't preclude a spirit from using the Corporeal Song of Dreams, though. (Or the Dreamwalking attunement, though only Beleth might possibly give it to an ethereal, and even then not bloody likely.) Again, unofficial, unplaytested, but do with it what you will. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:36:49 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Dreamlands Question > I think the Dream Walking Attunement allows it for > Celestials (and maybe one of the Songs of Dreams, but don't > ask me which... again, no books). No, it doesn't. The Dream Walking Attunement and the Corporeal Song of Dreams can only be used from the Corporeal plane. (unless Celetials can go to sleep in Heaven . . .) As for Sorcerers, I > don't recall any way for them to get into Dreamscapes other > than their own. Doesn't mean there isn't one, only that I > don't recall it. But thanks! - -Perry. Kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:43:01 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Player Characters: They're not just for breakfast any more > But so many of the GM ideas on this list hinge on the assumption that PCs 1) > are stupid, 2) are incapable of thinking, 3) will never stop and investigate > something before acting, and 4) work on the "Kill it first and then sort it > out" theory. > > And the problem with this is not only that it's probably unfair and > insulting to the players, but that if you design your scenario this way and > don't get players like that -- which one devoutly hopes -- then your > scenario will either not work at all or be solved in about an hour. > > Comments (and explanations) are invited. > > > Janet Anderson Well . . . here's an angle: Perhaps GMs are more likely to complain about bad PCs than they are to talk the good PCs. This would cause us to have more evidence of bad PCs presented than evidence of good PCs. Aonther angle: if a GM judges intelligence by how much a person knows rather than how well they can use what they know, and because the GM has access to the secret knowledge in the game, such a GM is likely to judge his PCs as below intelligent. Another angle: since people tend to remember negative experiences much more than positive ones (an assumption on my part, moderately supported by research) then people will be overall more likely to be speaking about negative PC experience than positive. Another angle: people build rapport through common experience and sharing memories of those experiences. Having bad PCs in the party would be something in common and something worth sharing. Just my . . . eight cents. - -Perry, KFc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Friends will keep you sane, Love could fill your heart, A lover can warm your bed, But lonely is the soul without a mate. " - --David Pratt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:15:56 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Dreamlands Question Perry Lloyd wrote: > No, it doesn't. > The Dream Walking Attunement and the Corporeal Song of Dreams can only be> used from the Corporeal plane. (unless Celetials can go to sleep in Heaven> . . .) Not correct. (Or at least, not in the EPG, though maybe I missed something in another book?) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:16:59 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Dreamlands Question > >Okay. I've looked and looked and my Perception 1 is preventing me > >discovering the truth . . . > > > >How can you enter a Dreamscape from /within/ the Marches?? > > Corporeal Song of Dreams or Dreamwalking, IIRC. - -sigh- Neither work, because they allow the celestial to /Enter/ the Marches through the mind of a human dreamer. And they require the celestial to /fall asleep/, something I doubt they would be doing in the Dreamlands. - -Perry, Kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:34:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Consider the Man At 6:21 PM -0400 5/6/01, Charles Phipps wrote: >>Is Nybbas looking at God when he says this - or is he >>looking at one of _us_? > >He's looking at beth > >He figured it out along with Asmodeus. > >"BLAST IT ALL! It's like we're in some sort of twisted Steve Jackson game!" Well, he'd better work on his presentation, or I'm going to cut his funding.... - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:53:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Prince (and example of monstrous egotism) (OOPS) At 5:47 AM -0700 5/7/01, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Maurice Lane wrote: >> Hey, remember that little comment that Jon made about >> me being the Prince of Heresy*? > > [sigh] You realize, of course, that this could touch off >a round of amusing self-portraits. Already did mine. Both of 'em. All three of 'em if you count Thoroughness. Or maybe all four, if you're counting the ArchDean. - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:00:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Kids and Will (Re: New Prince) At 2:45 PM -0500 5/7/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Timothy Groth wrote: > >> little kids in IN probably have low Wills > >Just more evidence that this is a FANTASY RPG. >Ask Beth whether Iolanthe has a low Will. Can't be. Impudites use Will to steal Essence, remember? And all mine's gone, so it must be going _somewhere_... (Though, in truth, she's generally easy-going enough that she doesn't _show_ much Will. I don't press my luck. Well, I do try to insist that there are other nouns besides "Cat.") (And where there is a conflict, I don't know if it's her Will or her attention span (Precision) that gives first.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:04:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Birdy (Re: Sometimes the Light of Heaven burns...) At 9:53 PM -0400 5/7/01, S.D. wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Darkness, darkness, dark in their hearts. Find me one, Master says, find me one >to play with, make him sink, make him bleed, we shall play most intricate >games, they cannot Fall but can they be pushed? >Birdy/Javan, Redeemed Balseraph of Technology/Seraph of Lightning on Dark >Malakim, 'The Rescue of Birdy' > >(A note to the author of 'The Rescue of Birdy', if s/he is on this ML: We both are. O:> >I swear, I've had that *exact same ending line* running through my head for >*weeks*. *Before* I read that story. ^_^;; Well, more or less. It was actually, >"He didn't Fall. He was *pushed*." But close enough.) From out of the mouths of mildly insane idiot savants... You should see my Gabriel impressions. ("Do not put out the stars, do not give them to Lucifer's hands, or the sparks will die and all will be ash, ash and death!") - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:13:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Discord: Photosynthesis At 12:23 AM +1200 5/9/01, Alex Liddell wrote: >This Discord primarily affects Servitors of Novalis, either by absorbtion of >Dissonance or by the Archangel of Flowers herself as a lesson in nature's >laws. Demons have shown this Discord very rarely, and then, they are >Servitors of Dark Humour. And Lilim. C'mon, you gotta have Lilim affected. You _know_ you want to. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:01:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Book Suggestions (Re: Question about IST characters...) At 3:35 PM -0400 5/8/01, S.D. wrote: >Well, I *am* getting 'Fall of the Malakim' and Superiors 2 soon... (Yay >www.half.com! ^_^) Mmmmm, Superiors 2! >If anyone has any other recommendations, could you let me know? The core book >is the only other one I have... Mmmmm, time for the "undead thread" of book suggestions. O:> But it's a useful one to come 'round and 'round and doesn't last forbloodyever like music threads and casting threads did. Therefore, I will add my notions to the fray. Despite the Impudite Princess bouncing in my lap and causing Typos. To start with, check the links at www.sjgames.com/in-nomine , because those often have sample-text. Then you could drop in and read the reviews at rpg.net. The following are not necessarily in order that I think you NEED them, but more as I think of them. I'll try to explain what's in them. You may have heard mention of Limbo; that's in Heaven & Hell. (So is one of the better adventures, though overly political.) It has the initial expanded writeups of Dominic (expanded further in Superiors 1), Asmodeus (not yet expanded further), Yves (further expanded in Superiors 3) and Kronos (as for Azzie). And it has Heaven & Hell; do check the errata, though. (That's linked off the above URL.) If you want more Marches detail, you'll want _The Marches_; however, the Sorcery material in it is revised and superceded by the material in the Corporeal Player's Guide. The Blandine expansion there (including the Menunim) is further expanded in Superiors 3, as is the Gabriel expansion. The Belial and Beleth ones are not yet expanded further. The ethereal pantheons are roughed out there, and you'll understand a bit more about all this Purity Crusade stuff that gets discussed. Oh, and there's an adventure/setting, which, alas, never grabbed me. The Liber Reliquarum is the Book of Relics. It has lots of cool and useful stuff in it. Like Force Catchers, for instance, to cut down on Kyrio terror. It also has expanded, more-detailed (as well as some quick-and-dirty) rules for costing and enchanting relics and talismans. It's the first "toybook" and your players will want it if you're GMing. (The adventure has had... mixed reviews.) The Liber Canticorum is the Book of Songs, including learning them by means other than the Superior "Poof, you know a Song" method, researching new ones, altering the ones you know... As well as a whole bunch of fun common, rare, Secret, and Lost Songs. Again, it's anothe toybook that's a PC or GM's playground. The Liber Castellorum (Book of Fortresses (read Tethers)) is most helpful for GMs, probably, but I happen to quite like it. Yeah, yeah, I edited it, too. It was fun. The Servitorum and S2 were hellacious to edit, for various reasons, but the Castellorum was very nice. The Corporeal Player's Guide. If you want humans to have a major part in your games, as PCs or NPCs, you NEED this book. 'Nuff said. The Infernal Player's Guide. This is pretty useful, overall. It's also the first book to feel my Line Editor's touch. I do not reccomend the Angelic Player's Guide, unless you can get it reasonably cheap. There is material in there which is First Up Against The Wall as soon as the first edition sells out, and it's all mixed up with the material which is useful. In particular, the check digit tables for Mercurians and Kyriotates are... well, they go against the spirit of Unique Servitor/Choir Attunements For The Archangels. I could rant more about it, but I won't. There is good material in there (the _rest_ of the Kyrio stuff, sans check digit tables, for instance), but it drives me slightly nuts. (The art direction on it fell down in a few places, too, which means it's not as _pretty_ a book as it could be. And the angel on the front has crooked wings.) It went out just as I was getting the LE reins in my hands. O:p Night Music has material on Soldiers, Saints, and poisons -- all of which are superceded by the material in the Corporeal Player's Guide. It has an expanded writeup on Laurence (who gets further expanded in Superiors 1) and Saminga (no further expansion yet); Fleurity and Christopher appear there first. Fleurity is expanded in Suepriors 4, while Christopher (AA of Children) has no additional expansion yet. There's a writeup of In Nomine Austin which has a whole lot of NPCs. I actually found that useful while writing some fanfic. O:> And there's an adventure which could be okay as a standalone. The Final Trumpet -- you're going to want this one if you've got FotM, because it's got the second half of the adventure that starts in FotM. The adventure setting in it... has had both praise and critcism (including geographical flubs, drat it all). It's also got the initial expanded writeups of Michael (Superiors 1 expounds), Kobal (S2), Malphas, and Baal. It introduces Khalid, an Archangel with... problems, and Magog, a Prince who may (or may not) get kacked at the final page. But his Servitors all have nasty little attunements. O:> And the art in it is _lovely_, I think. You Are Here - a book of locations that can be dropped into a campaign as local color, a source of plot hooks, or both. It has corporeal, ethereal, and celestial "scenery." One, the Eighth Virtue, seems to crop up in dicussion on the list a fair amount. O:> Liber Servitorum is a book of NPCs, including many which are point balanced enough to be PCs if needed. (I hear that at least one of them went on to be a very interesting character for a first-timer to IN.) It also has a section on Roles (how they're created and maintained and what they're good for) and a larger one on Servants (ditto, and other fun bits), as well as a brief appendix with some sample Needs, Dis/Honorable Deeds, fates, and destinies. It was a tough edit at the time, but turned out well. And it's not so pink as the art looks on the website. Feast of Blades is the adventure packet that comes with the GM Screen, and is out of print, last I heard. Which is a pity, 'cause it's rather nice. Has Litheroy, AA of Revelation, and Alaemon, Prince of Secrets. And an adventure. Superiors 1 contains expanded expanded Michael, Dominic, Laurence, and David. Not in that order. Superiors 3 has Gabriel, Yves, Blandine (and her Menunim), and Khalid -- who, basically, NEEDED the extra room of the writeup to be useful as more than a teetering plot device. Superiors 4 has Fleurity, Mammon, Alaemon, Vapula and Valefor. The minor Princes (Fleurity, Alaemon, and Mammon) have shorter space allotted to them than Vaps and Valefor. GURPS In Nomine. Because I co-authored it and get royalties, natch. O:> Have I forgotten anything? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:02:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Consider Secrets At 3:23 PM -0600 5/3/01, GROTH TIMOTHY PAUL wrote: > I dunno, I'm not sure that fnord-coding the message was fair to everyone else... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:05:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: The Sailor Team, In Nominized (Pt. II) >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:09:04 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["William J. Keith" ] [Poster's list, gotta sign up for the poster's list... --Beth] >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:01:46 -0400 >From: "William J. Keith" >Subject: The Sailor Team, In Nominized (Pt. II) > >Sailor Mars >Soldier of Fire > >ST 9 >DX 10 >IQ 10 >HT 12 > >Appearance: Teenage Japanese female, average height and build, waist-length >straight black hair, black eyes. > >Advantages: Attractive appearance, Symphonic Awareness, Power Investiture >(Corporeal) +1, Essence Control 8, Danger Sense, True Shape of Flame(use >mechanics of Shape Fire as if Create Fire had been used, if necessary) > >Disadvantages: Bad Temper, Disciplines of Faith (Shinto acolyte), Minor(Age 14) > >Quirks: highly organized; enjoys manga > >Skills: Banishing(Corporeal)-11, Fire(Corporeal)-15, Administration-12, >Singing-12, Musical Composition-12, Flower Arranging(hobby)-12, Karate-14, >English-10 > >Equipment: Wand and communicator; Ofuda -- A standard item created by >Shinto priests, Rei's ofuda are employed when she uses her Song of >Banishing. The time she spends preparing them in proper ceremony actually >counts towards the success of the Song; at least, 5 minutes of it, for a >+3. Only one can be used per Song attempt, and it must be placed on the >target (despite the anime, it's very difficult to throw anything but >*heavy* paper) for the bonus to take effect. > >Besides a large personal collection of manga, Rei's sundries are slightly >more ascetic than a typical Japanese teenager's... after all, she does live >and work in a Heaven-controlled local shrine, which is also the group's >main gathering place and staging ground. > >Story: When Blandine found Gabriel and introduced Rei, the two hit it off >instantly. Well, strictly speaking, Rei dropped to her knees in awe of the >Burning Lady, and Gabriel smiled brilliantly at her. Blandine is >heartened, rather than confused, that Gabriel granted Rei her Soldier's >powers without having to be asked. Since then, Blandine has wondered if >Gabriel also granted Rei some minor form of prophetic sight - she certainly >seems to have a keen sense of ambush. > > >Sailor Jupiter >Soldier of Lightning > >ST 12 >DX 10 >IQ 9 >HT 12 > >Appearance: Teenage Caucasian female, green eyes, brown hair in ponytail, >tall and athletic. > >Advantages: Attractive appearance, Symphonic Awareness, Power Investiture >(Celestial) +1, Essence Control 8, Unusual Background(Blandine personally >convincing Jean to do it), Fit, Generator > >Disadvantages: Impulsiveness, Struggling wealth > >Quirks: constantly pining after boys; likes to have plants around > >Skills: Cooking-16, Lightning(Celestial)-13, Botany-10, Karate-14, Japanese-9 > >Equipment: Other than the common items, Lita's sundries are slightly >affected by a slightly lower availability of familial funds. > >Story: At least this one didn't require an angelic Force, just a Celestial >one. Jean openly wondered why an activity so obviously supportive of >Blandine's Word required so much work from him, not to mention risking the >sanity of two human beings. Blandine merely pointed out that the action >was for the overall good of the Symphony, as was the debt she owed him, >from his own point of view; and kept to herself the observation that he >hardly needed to throw in the Generator Attunement as well. Really, it was >as if he liked the image, or the idea was starting to appeal to him, or >something. :^) > > >Sailor Venus >Soldier of Creation > >ST 9 >DX 11 >IQ 9 >HT 10 > >Appearance: Teenage Caucasian female, blue eyes, waist-length straight >blonde hair. > >Advantages: Attractive appearance, Symphonic Awareness, Power Investiture >(Celestial) +1, Essence Control 6, Unusual Background(It's Eli. Who >knows?), Charisma +1 > >Disadvantages: Overconfidence* > >Quirks: collects stuffed animals; misquotes proverbs > >Skills: Needlecraft-12; Light(Celestial)-14, Volleyball-16, Performance-10, >Acting-10, Singing-12, Japanese-9 > >Equipment: Standard henshin wand and communicator. In addition to her >sundries, she has a decently-sized collection of stuffed animals, some of >which she has even sewn herself. She has made gifts of personally-sewn >teddy bears to Blandine and Eli. > >Story: Venus was going to take a little longer, so Blandine started looking >for Eli first. (Why Creation? It just seemed to fit her personality and >habits.) Turns out she found him rather quickly. He thought she was >darling, she thought he was totally cool, and he agreed to do it on the >spot. There were no problems with the Force-grafting, except maybe a >slight tendency to garble proverbs. However, Mina won't say if she did >that before. ;^) Having been around for a while longer than the other >Senshi, she's somewhat more used to her powers than the others and is >looking into pursuing her dreamt-of singing career on the side, preferably >in ways that support Dreams and/or Creation. > > >History of the Scouts > > Behold them. The Sailor Team - six Soldiers whose main function, >besides supporting the Word of Dreams and being hyper-enthusiastic teenage >warriors for God, is to inflict massive amounts of cognitive dissonance on >sorcerors and demons, who generally lapse into astonished confusion upon >being attacked by five cute girls in skirts wielding Songs and a guy in a >tux throwing roses that become a lot more effective with Bladesongs. > > Hey. Wacky ideas occasionally work, and someone who actually had >one of her angels bound to the concept of "Half-Baked Student Idealism" has >the occasional idea out of left field herself. Besides, Kobal doesn't have >a monopoly on humor in *this* Symphony, thank you very much. > > After all, they were natural Soldier material anyway. And they >were such *fans*... so Blandine gathered some Archangels. Gabriel required >some finding, but she took a liking to the passionate Rei, so much that she >even gives her the occasional prophecy. So did Eli, and he was charmed >enough by Mina(probably the hand-sewn teddy bear) to adopt her and produce >the six henshin tools: four wands, one rose and a brooch. Blandine herself >adopted Serena(she seems to enjoy playing the part of Queen Serenity in >their occasional meetings), and Laurence was persuaded by Blandine to hear >out the uprightly noble Darien for some powers(which he granted). Jean >didn't bloody well see the point -- it seemed entirely too inefficient -- >but Blandine making a truly impassioned request is hard to refuse, and at >least there was *someone* sensible on the team, so he went ahead and gave >Ami his Elohite attunement(beefed up with an extra sensor array, as long as >he was risking one of his own Servitors to do this, and Blandine was being >so insistent), Lita his Song of Celestial Lightning, and dedicated >communicators 'round the table. (*Boy*, did Blandine owe Jean for this >one....) After that, it was just a matter of a couple of Mercurians of >Dreams in cat Vessels(with human Voices) as their mentors and heavenly >liaisons, they were all set. > > They're, individually, not really a match for a demon, and as a >human team are rather overt for that kind of front-line work. Plus, their >mentors would rather not risk them to that extent for a demon that angels >could fight better, and will be returning from Trauma anyway. Rather, >their most common target is the human Sorcerors who are bad enough to draw >Heavenly notice and not be worth any (more) attempted saving. The Team's >Songs and Attunements are generally plenty enough to deal with any >sorceror's own skills, and if he manages to summon a demon, well, they can >deal with that, too. The cats generally stay out of the main battle(as >Mercurians, they can't go after the sorcerors personally anyway), and are >always ready afterward with Songs of Healing, just in case. > > The battles are... well... fun. Serena thinks The Speech** is >_insanely_ cool. Darien and she have actually fallen in love -- can >Blandine pick 'em or what? Ami and Darien can generally remain calm -- the >rest of the Scouts get into the rhythm with all due enthusiasm. Of course, >none of them has gotten seriously injured yet; Luna and Artemis are getting >scary flash-forwards to the end of the first TV season, when the perfectly >confident Scouts charged into the thick of something much bigger than >they'd handled before. So their priorities are balancing training, words >of caution, and the preservation of the beautiful dreams of the young and >idealistic. > > These girls may just do all right yet. > >William > >*Have you ever seen Mina trying to be a nurse to her friends or date two >guys at once? Trust me, it's appropriate. %^) > >**Oh, surely you know The Speech. > > "How dare you defile the Earth with your evil ways! I am Sailor >Moon, Champion of Justice! I will right wrongs and triumph over evil! On >behalf of Heaven, I shall punish you!" > >Or something similar. ^_^ > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2213 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. 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