From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 16 15:07:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20706 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 15:07:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA19042 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 16 May 2001 15:05:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:05:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200105162005.PAA19042@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2228 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 16 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2228 In this digest: IN> A quick question Re: IN> A quick question Re: IN> More In Anime works! IN> Re:Stupid Balseraph tricks IN> Re: Shangri-La IN> Re: Baal's Battle Plan Re: IN> Seraphim in Corsets (Re: Re: Swords of Laurence) Re: IN> Seraphim in Corsets (Re: Re: Swords of Laurence) Re: IN> Hell's Plan for beating Heaven Re: IN> Further rebuttal of Kobal Re: IN> Just a thought... Re: IN> May 9, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> A Vignette, of sorts Re: IN> Hell's Plan for beating Heaven RE: IN> Consider Hardcore Re: IN> Curious Malakim oaths Re: IN> More In Anime works! Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths Re: IN> More In Anime works! Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths Re: IN> More In Anime works! Re: IN> Hell's Plan for beating Heaven Re: IN> Call for Papers (OOPS/Galahad/Heresy) IN> Consider Song Re: IN> A Vignette, of sorts Re: IN> Consider Song IN> The Demon of Hard Work Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Superior Roles: Khalid Re: IN> Superior Roles: Khalid IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:22:32 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: IN> A quick question I don't have the books, but I feel I should ask: what Band is Alaemon? Balseraph makes sense, but I'm not sure. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:44:31 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question From: "Phillip" <> Short answer: Impudite. Gebbeleth, the first Prince of Secrets, was a Balseraph. Long answer: Alaemon is widely known to be an Impudite, but rumors tell of a Balseraph who told the Game, "I'm Alaemon, Fallen Mercurian," and rolled an Infernal Intervention on his resonance roll. That Balseraph, who of course everyone knows to be Alaemon the Impudite, became Prince of Secrets...and has since been carefully using his true resonance to conceal his true identity from everyone, even--especially--himself. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 03:07:34 -0500 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> More In Anime works! > > > I promptly request someone remove whatever is in the water near my >hometown > > No I wouldn't I want to see what you come up with next. Thanks to you I have come to the conclusion that Zechs Marquise/ Milardo Peacecraft is a Habbalite of the War who Redemmed into Novalis' service and after deciding that the only way to bring about peace was to start a war that would end with Earth's destruction and thus scare and shock the war instinct out of humanity. Wracked up dissonance and Yo-yoed. In Anime isn't it cool. (If hazardous to one's mental health) Brad. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:36:34 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re:Stupid Balseraph tricks > Subject: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks > >>If a Malakite takes an oath ("I will never shave off my beard"), and a demon >>knocks him down, ties him up, and shaves off the beard, has the Malakite >>broken his oath? I think not. > > Yes, but could a Balseraph do it? > > I mean, could he convince the Malakite that the Blackwing had shaven his > own beard off, ala the example in the original book (well, that was > head-shaving, but basically the same thing)? Come to think of it, can a > Balseraph convince a Malakite that he's broken his Oaths? It might not > cause actual dissonance, since the honor of the Virtue is unstained, but it > would definitely be useful in taking the Malakite down a few notches. You're thinking too small. Far better is to persuade the Malakite that "all REALLY honourable Malakim have sworn oath blah" and watch him swear it. [Hey, if they can persuade Lilim that they should owe geases, this should be equally possible]. A good oath for aspiring Liars of Fate or Dark Humor to wax lyrical about is: "Should I ever gain dissonance I will immediately remove it by swearing two new oaths". This will rapidly send the Malakite into a dissonance loop. James. P.S. I'd have to say NO to the idea of them being able to convince a Malakite that they've broken their oaths. Otherwise, they'd be able to remove dissonance from Bal-akim & Impudites by persuading them that they DIDN'T violate their dissonance conditions. dissonance should be more fundamental than that. Of course, they should be able to persuade people that they HAVE dissonance. {This would be easiest on Elohim - "You can't sense the dissonance? You must really be bad then - that's the mark of a Habbalah, that sort of self-denial}. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:55:16 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Shangri-La > Ethereal Domain: The Lost Continent > (Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu, Shangri-La) Does it have American bombers, courtesy of the Roosevelt's explanation of the Doolittle raid? James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:56:55 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Baal's Battle Plan > Baal: And then we will say unto God that we were right > > - -Charlemagne Nice. Meanwhile, of course, Valefor is wondering: if all of Heaven's tethers are trashed during Armageddon, and all of the angels have headed down to Megiddo, what's to stop an enterprising Demon Prince sneaking in, chasing the Blessed up Jacob's ladder and then throwing all of the Hearts over the walls so that the angels can't get back? Granted demons can't live in Heaven, but I'm sure that Lilith would like to buy Heaven off me.... James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:50:46 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim in Corsets (Re: Re: Swords of Laurence) >Moe "Seraphim can't wear corsets anyway: it's >equivalent to Lying about your waist size*" Lane In the "Seraphim" writeup somewhere (Angelic Player's Guide, I think), it says that Seraphim have no problem with cosmetic improvements to their own or humans' appearance if they're not intended to deceive someone as to their identity. The example said that dyeing your hair to improve your appearance did not count as a lie; dyeing your hair to disguise yourself as someone else did. Janet Anderson (A Seraph in celestial form doesn't *have* a waist.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim in Corsets (Re: Re: Swords of Laurence) - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Did I _say_ the thong bikini was in leather? I mean, > _did_ I? > Tsk. You people. Such dirty minds. Why, someone ought to > do > Heavenly Judgment with a paddle or perhaps a caning... Tease. };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:17:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Hell's Plan for beating Heaven Yikes! These guys aren't nice at all! And the last line alone is worth the price of admission. One problem; Baal's plan here seems to ignore the "minor" inconvenience of the light of Heaven. Gonna be hard to ascend Jacob's Ladder through that. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Further rebuttal of Kobal - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > If a Malakite takes an oath ("I will never shave off my > beard"), and a demon > knocks him down, ties him up, and shaves off the beard, > has the Malakite > broken his oath? I think not. If the wording of the Oath is, "I will maintain a beard," the Malakite can take a Role as a barber and go clean shaven. 0;;;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Just a thought... E: the Crow is an Outcast Shedite of Death who spends his time finding murder victims and avenging their unjust deaths by taking it out of the killers' hides. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:23:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> May 9, 2001 (ML) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Ethereal Domain: The Lost Continent > (Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu, Shangri-La) You forgot K'un-l'un. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Vignette, of sorts How do you get into Heaven? Throw yourself at Hell and miss. This was right brilliant. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 07:06:44 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Hell's Plan for beating Heaven Actually, I always wondered how they intended to conquer Heaven in the first place. (Scene: The Final Day. The armies of Hell have amassed at the pearly gates, having sorely thrashed Heaven everywhere else, but no one seems to be making the first move. Baal wanders over to the gates.) Baal: What's the bloody hold-up? Demon: Well, you see, oh Great Dark Lord, we were really keen on this whole conquering heaven thing, well, that it, oh, I don't know how to put this... we weren't sure if you knew about this little problem or not. Uhm, Frank, could you show him? (Another Demon, presumably Frank, sticks his hand through the gates and shrieks in agony as his hand begins to burn and wither in the Light of God.) Demon: Err, yeah, that. I mean, the whole plan was pretty cool up till this point, sir. Do you have, you know, some way we can get around this? (Baal looks ready to Force-strip the demon, but then stops and thinks about it.) Baal: I -knew- there was a reason Kobal wanted to be here today... oh to Hell with it. This whole thing was stupid anyway. Let's go home. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 07:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> Consider Hardcore Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:09:00 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Consider Hardcore >Consider Hardcore >Hardcore is basically about making buddies with your >Id and telling your Super-Ego to go F--- itself. Now _there's_ a .sig file. :) I liked this one. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:20:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Curious Malakim oaths Charles Phipps wrote: > * Always abstain from meat on a Friday > > (Catholic angels) Or at least Catholic Malakim who fledged before Vatican II. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:02:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> More In Anime works! Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:15:15 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> More In Anime works! >- -Charlemagne >I promptly request someone remove whatever is in the >water near my hometown Fat chance, buddy. It took me forever to find the right filter to block out whatever's in _mine_. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:29:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths >(Ahhhhhh, the Beard Oath. Brings back memories of the >playtest, it does.) Well, that's one way of putting it. My left knee still aches when the weather changes. ;) Moving along, my favorite strange (and silly, and seriously dangerous) oath has always been "I shall swear no more oaths besides these" (a never-finished fanatical Catholic Malakite of the Sword NPC I was working on*). Moe *Didn't gel, so I broke her up for spare parts. I really should find some way to use that oath somewhere else... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:29:01 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths >Moving along, my favorite strange (and silly, and >seriously dangerous) oath has always been "I shall >swear no more oaths besides these" (a never-finished >fanatical Catholic Malakite of the Sword NPC I was >working on*). > I think my favourite was "I will never make an idle threat." (Which is more worrying than it sounds.) And, "When it is my choice, I will always strike the first blow." jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:38:43 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> More In Anime works! >Fat chance, buddy. It took me forever to find the >right filter to block out whatever's in _mine_. :) > >Moe > Keep looking. Janet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:38:27 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Malakim Oaths > I think my favourite was "I will never make an idle threat." (Which is more > worrying than it sounds.) And, "When it is my choice, I will always strike > the first blow." On that thread, I always liked 'I will not take out a weapon I do not intend to use', for Laurencians. If nothing else, when word of that one got out, it adds to his intimidation factor. If he pulls out his sword/gun/whatever, people knows he means it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:46:02 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> More In Anime works! > >Fat chance, buddy. It took me forever to find the > >right filter to block out whatever's in _mine_. :) > > > >Moe > > > > Keep looking. > Noo! Do you know what we'd lose from the list if he were CURED?!? For the plans to continue, he must remain... oops. Forget you heard that last bit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:10:45 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Hell's Plan for beating Heaven Phillip wrote: > Baal: What's the bloody hold-up? > > Demon: Well, you see, oh Great Dark Lord, we were really keen on this whole > conquering heaven thing, well, that it, oh, I don't know how to put this... > we weren't sure if you knew about this little problem or not. Uhm, Frank, > could you show him? > > (Another Demon, presumably Frank, sticks his hand through the gates and > shrieks in agony as his hand begins to burn and wither in the Light of God.) Heaven plan for beating Hell.... Put a Toll Booth (exact change only) in the middle of the marches right in Hells path. Who in hell carries that many dimes? (With apologies to Mel Brooks.) Oh. God, now I am trying to figure out who, exactly Sheriff Bart is, IN terms. Lets see, he attacks the foreman it a shovel, for deciding that the hand cart is worth more than human lives. He sings and dresses magnificently, and has contacts in the Jazz world (Count Basie and his Orchestra in the middle of the Desert) He takes himself hostage, to avoid bloodshed. He rigs a box of Candy to explode. I am thinking, Malakite of Eli, in service to Janus. But I see those everywhere. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:27:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Call for Papers (OOPS/Galahad/Heresy) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > The Steering Committee for Litheroy's Abbey is calling > for papers for the upcoming 7,542nd Annual Pan-Entity > Symposium on Triplanar Affairs. And an... interesting... lot of papers they'd get, too. Especially when the Balseraphim got into the act. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:59:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Consider Song You don't know very much about me, do you? It's not too surprising, really: me and mine are mysteries wrapped up in enigmas, every one of us. Our name is not spoken in our old homes, and our enemies - on both sides - have never been really able to understand us. If the Symphony could be perceived visually - as a map, as you will - we would be the blanks spots on it, or perhaps even the place Where Dragons Be. I remember dragons. Some of them were wonderful creatures, you know: wise and full of their own wild music. Trust a Malakite to be tone deaf, of course. You know, I think that that's what started the entire trouble. The Malakim were never meant to be in the first place, and they've spent their existence being a half step behind the rest of the orchestra. It must be maddening, to know that you don't fit in anywhere. Of course, it must be even more maddening to encounter those that were created to counterpoint your existence. _We_ fit in everywhere. No, we do. As angels, we were at home in Heaven: as the Choir closest to humans, we can live on the corporeal plane and drink in its Song without missing a beat. Even the ethereal plane holds no sense of unfamiliarity to us. Our unique nature allows us to move in it as a celestial yet experience it as a human. There is no place where we are not at home - save Hell, of course. We save that familiarity for the blackwings. What? There are no Malakim in Hell? Strictly speaking, no: but they could live there without trouble. A Malakite is as close as an angel can come to embracing the concept of forcing one's own views of the world upon it without Falling. Or perhaps they all did, and never noticed. Hell has demons who think that they are angels: the potential symmetry is interesting, don't you think? But this isn't about the Malakim (and, truth be told, some are able to transcend their nature), it's about me, and my Choir. It is painful to admit that the primary charge against us was correct: we _did_ interbreed among humanity, and we _did_ have children that could not handle the pressures of being both angel and man. We were all very young then, and we didn't always know what we were doing. Punishment was merited. But not what was given to us. The books tell of the our Outcasting: what it does _not_ speak of was the machinations necessary to justify sending off an entire Choir to quite possibly die. There were Grigori that never visited Earth, Grigori that chose chastity, even Grigori that had fledged the very day of the final decision (and I will make very sure that THEY, at least, are avenged)... in short, there were Grigori that did not deserve their sentence, and yet they were sent away with the rest of us. And then the killing started. This has been touched upon, in other places: suffice it to say that we were horribly at risk for a long time. We are not completely safe, even now. But, enough about ancient history: you wish to know about me. I am ... Song. Such a simple Word to encompass such a grand concept. From the start, I have seen myself as a continual praise to the glory and wonder that is God. That's what the first songs were, you know: hymns. All angels are hymns to God (although most Malakim could use a drastic rewrite), of course, but I am a hymn stripped of all extraneous notes and flourishes. The fact that I am in the wilderness, so to speak, merely means that I can be louder. No, I am not complex, except in the way that humans are complex. To use the phrase of a recent mortal, I have a barbaric yawp, and I quite enjoy expressing it. There was Song before there was Music (although Israfel's elevation is, in my opinion, long overdue), and I reflect that. Much is made of the fact that, as Song, I must have some special interaction with the Symphony: that I can bind and loose it at will. Well, it's been a while, so I'm not surprised that they've gotten it completely backwards. I do not act on the Symphony: the Symphony acts on me. I do not cause disturbance because everything I do is dictated by the needs of the Symphony. I am not its brains: I am its hands ... and I cannot act contrary to myself. I - and now my Choir, and to a lesser extent our children - are the tools that soothe the jangled notes caused by others. You scoff, now. There aren't enough of us to handle such a job, surely. No, I'm not reading your mind: it's been said before. Consider this: if what I say is true, how could anyone see us? Celestials are quite often tracked by the disturbance that they inflict on the world: _we_ do nothing of the sort, and so we are invisible. Anyone you pass on the street could be Grigori, safe inside her proper place in the Symphony and immune to your prying senses. But our numbers would have dwindled over the millennia and never replenished? That no new Grigori could be created outside of Heaven? Well, that hasn't stopped Eli, has it... but I speak too much of this, as well. I will leave you with one final thought, one more hint to our purpose. When God created the Grigori, he must have known what would happen to us, and yet he did it anyway. This is either evidence of His cruelty - and no one who has felt the major chords of the universe flow through his soul like I have could ever believe that God is cruel - or it was a necessary move to protect the universe from itself. Heaven and Hell have spent so much time fighting each other since then that they forget to look at the quiet places. The Grigori have learned to be quiet. But our voices will rejoin the chorus, someday soon, and what a Song _that_ will be, come the Day... Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:09:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> A Vignette, of sorts Thank you. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! ::: Conspiracy religions CONvert, the Subgenius SUBverts! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:06:27 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song Much as I do sympathise with this protrayal (which was very good, btw), there's one thing I feel I Need to point out: Dominic handed out the sentence. As much as I don't care for him meself, I do respect the fact that he has to be Fair. If he made his Judgement, it was because it was True. Look at his dissonance condition: if he punished the -entire- Choir with Outcasting, then it had to be with reason, and it had to be Just punishment. If it wasn't, he would have fallen so fast he'd break every bone on the way down. Metaphorically speaking. Other than that, 'twas good. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:14:38 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> The Demon of Hard Work Elpaaliah, Habbalah of Death Demon of Hard Work Attunements: Habbalah of Death, Zombi, Knight of the Dead, Captain of the Infernal Legion, Demon of Hard Work Rites: Get someone to work overtime for two days in a row: +1 Essence. +2 if it causes them to miss an important family event. Cause someone's death by overwork: +3 Essence Demon of Hard Work: At a glance, Elpaaliah can force someone to work longer hours at their work by causing them to feel that their job is the most important thing in their lives. This is rolled as per the Habbalite resonance. If idle hands are the devil's tools, Elpaaliah is the foreman that directs them. She is a Hellborn Habbalah that came into existence during the Industrial Revolution. Within her first few years, she saw people dying at work, neglecting their families and caring for little else. To her deranged logic, these were the kinds of people that were ideal for Heaven. She would encourage people to work longer hours on projects, make managers "see" how important it was to keep things running. After all, Sloth was one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Let other angels concern themselves with the other six, she would make sure that souls didn't falter because they were too lazy. By 1910, she was awarded the Word of Hard Work. It was said that she barely noticed the honor because she was in the middle of three projects at the time. The rise of unions and "worker's rights" campaigns (The phrase still causes her to spit in disgust) as well as cases of karoshi (Death by overwork) in Japan persuaded her that a change in tactics was in order. For a Habbalah, she can be quite perceptive and adaptable. Over the past few years she has coordinated her efforts with demons of Gluttony (Happy hour and buffets for the perfect break), Media (Karoke bars) and..*shudder* Lust (Andraelphus has Soldiers that pose as secretaries who can...persuade people to stay at work longer). It grates on her nerves that people take breaks to enjoy these pleasures, but they do go back to work later that evening. She reluctantly sees that in the long run, people will not fall to laziness. And when these people die, they can be reborn as Zombies to handle menial tasks without stopping. The dot com disasters have been an incredible boon for Elpaaliah and her Word. With companies laying off employees, she has a crop of people that don't mind working any kind of job no matter what the hours. Things have been improving steadily for her these last few months. Elpaaliah has operated below Heaven's radar for a long time. She thinks that the other angels leave her alone because they recognize her effort. In truth, most of Heaven thought that people were dying from overwork that had no Infernal connection. Over the past year, she has gained the notice of two different entities. The Archangel of Trade was only recently made aware of her activities. No one is quite sure what he is planning, but there are three Malakim that were in an hour long meeting regarding her where the phrase "Any means necessary" was overheard. But a more immediate threat to her is in the form of Maguel, the Angel of Relaxation. He rescued a young woman that had fallen under the Punisher's sway by taking her on a two week vacation and helping her find new work Although he appreciates a good work ethic, Maguel is dedicating a lot of time and effort to soul kill Elpaaliah in the most painful method possible. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:16:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song Phillip wrote: > Look at his dissonance condition: if he punished the -entire- Choir > with Outcasting, then it had to be with reason, and it had to be Just > punishment. I agree. Furthermore, in the source literature (i.e. one of the pseudepigraphical books of Enoch, the second I think), there are only 200 Grigori and they all took an oath to stand or fall together. So, even if they didn't all commit crimes worthy of Outcasting, they were all accomplices to those crimes, if you want to extend IN canon by way of Enoch. (I do like the idea of Eli making Grigori on the sly. Maybe he's gone walkabout to have the privacy to do so.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:27:16 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song Phillip wrote: > As much as I don't care for him meself, I do respect the fact > that he has to be Fair. Actually, he has to be Just, which isn't always the same thing. > If he made his Judgement, it was because it was > True. No, the sentence (guilty or innocent) must be True. The punishment Dominic decides upon comes only from his own judgment; even his resonance won't guarantee that his sentence is what God wants. Which is why he agonizes so much over every sentence he administers. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:31:13 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song From: "Maurice Lane" > > You know, I think that that's what started the entire > trouble. The Malakim were never meant to be in the > first place, and they've spent their existence being a > half step behind the rest of the orchestra. So the Grigori have the ability to hold grudges just like the humans, as well as interbreed with them. ;;;) And having a member of a choir that was not meant to be in teh first place use that as the basis for criticising another choir is . . . interesting. *eg* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:38:15 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song > > Actually, he has to be Just, which isn't always the same thing. True enough, but it does say it is Dissonant to give a punishment that does not fit the crime, which was the main point. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:44:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song David Edelstein wrote: > > that he has to be Fair. > > Actually, he has to be Just, which isn't always the same thing. Could you illustrate the distinction? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:53:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Actually, he has to be Just, which isn't always the same thing. > > Could you illustrate the distinction? Example: He might deliver an extraordinarily harsh sentence as a deterrent to prevent anyone else from committing the same crime, even though the perpetrator doesn't deserve such a harsh sentence. This isn't "fair" to the sentencee, but it is just, as long as the sentence doesn't exceed what the crime merits. (Dominic, like any judge, has a certain amount of latitude in deciding what punishment a crime merits.) Another example, of course, is the Grigori. The whole Choir got Outcast for the crimes of some of them. One interpretation is that all the Grigori really were guilty. Another is the one you cited from the Book of Enoch, where they swore an oath to stand together. But yet another is that Dominic was simply applying the principle of guilt by association, or as we were told in Basic Training, "If one of you screws you, you ALL screwed up!", as justification for group punishments. Something that definitely feels unfair to the group that's punished, but it does serve the purpose of justice -- depending on what kind of justice you're administering. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:04:44 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song At 2:44 PM -0500 5/16/01, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >David Edelstein wrote: > >> > that he has to be Fair. >> >> Actually, he has to be Just, which isn't always the same thing. > >Could you illustrate the distinction? A man murders ten men and women. That man himself supports a family. He is sentenced to (either life in prison without parole or death, depending on your feelings on the issue), his estate penalized heavily to recompense his victims as much as possible. His sentence is the maximum penalty inflictable. It is Just, for his crime exceeds all moral and legal codes. But his family will suffer because of his absence and financial obligations, and no matter how long he is in prison, or even if he dies, neither his death nor his estate can really make up for the deaths of his victims. It isn't fair. Not to the criminal's family, and not to the families of the victims. But it is Just. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles: Khalid Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:18:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles: Khalid Maurice Lane wrote: >> No, I thought that this was quite good. Odd to >> think that Khalid's probably got more corporeal >> plane time over the last couple of hundred years >> than just about any other Superior, unless of >> course they're _all_ keeping a major manifestation >> down here... > > >Jordi. Well, yeah, him and Dominic would be. Eli too, of course: he's been nowhere else*... But what I _meant_ to say was that Khalid's actually constantly seen quite a bit of the War lately from ground-level, as it were. I wonder if that's given him any perspective on it? :) Moe *Although the idea that a very small fragment of himself is still sitting at a desk at the Halls of Creation appeals to me. Said fragment wouldn't be able to keep a conversation going, of course: "Hi! Yes, I'm the Archangel Eli. However, I'm not able to respond to your visit right now, so at the sound of the clap please state your message loudly and clearly into my left ear and I'll get back to you as soon as possible..." Clap. "GET YOUR SORRY TAILFEATHERS BACK UP HERE, YOU REPROBATE REFUGEE FROM A HIPPIE MOV..." Clap. "Um, Boss, like, hey, you remember the Thing. Yeah. _That_ Thing. Well, you know, see ... umm, we were all sitting around, and the beer was really good, so somebody went out to get some more munchies, and, well, they opened the wrong door... So, anyway, where do you keep the plutonium?" Clap. "Eli? Michael here. This is insane, you know: it was funny watching the Hyena go insane for the first two decades, but it's starting to get old. This is no time for draft dodging! "Also, while you're out, could you swing by the store and pick up some tin foil? We'll be running out in about 45 more years." Clap. "Ummm... do you have Prince Albert in a can? (pause) "Oh, never mind. He was behind the loom. Sorry to bother you, boss." Clap. "...DON'T YOU DARE HANG UP ON ME! I WANT YOU BACK HERE _NOW_, AND IF YOU THINK THAT I CARE ABOUT YOUR EXCUSES, WELL... (pause) "Good, he's finally out of earshot, the grinning barbarian. I'll see you at the usual time, usual place. Try not to keep me guessing who you are this time, OK?" Clap. "Umm, boss? You there? Well, we found the Thing, but it sort of found the Other Thing first, and, well, could you come up here all quiet-like? "And could you bring some tin foil with you?" ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:43:14 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles: Khalid Maurice Lane wrote: > > Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:18:26 -0500 > From: David Edelstein > Subject: Re: IN> Superior Roles: Khalid > > Maurice Lane wrote: > >> No, I thought that this was quite good. Odd to > >> think that Khalid's probably got more corporeal > >> plane time over the last couple of hundred years > >> than just about any other Superior, unless of > >> course they're _all_ keeping a major manifestation > >> down here... > > > > > >Jordi. > > Well, yeah, him and Dominic would be. Eli too, of > course: he's been nowhere else*... Keep in mind, though... Jordi is a Kyriotate. And look at his Kyriotate Attunement. It adds up to a LOT of Jordi running around. -Daiv, Husband in Service to His wife's Birthday. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:05:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... ... usually there's a digest kicking in by now. Odd. Well, while I'm here, I had a thought anyway. Over on Pyramid, I've been trying to (quite unofficially) get somebody - anybody - to come up with an original IN product that could sell (nuts and bolts sort of thing), and it occured to me that a lot of us have generated extra skills, Rituals, Songs and whatnot. Does anyone think that a Campaign Guide (I can't think of a better name) full of tried-and-found-useful mechanics stuff would sell? Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2228 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.